Salvation in Symbols and Signs

The Second Angel’s Message

Three Angels Broadcasting Network

Program transcript

Participants: Ivor Myers (Host), James Rafferty (Host), Yvonne Lewis, Jason Bradley


Series Code: SISS

Program Code: SISS000062A

00:30 So we are right in the middle of the first angel's message
00:33 it is a powerful, glorious message
00:34 because every phrase of the first angel's message
00:37 refers back to the everlasting gospel.
00:40 The everlasting gospel actually defines
00:42 the phrases that we find here,
00:44 because you can take those phrases through the Bible
00:46 and you can define... almost anywhere you want to
00:47 but God has called in us to define them
00:49 according to the everlasting gospel.
00:52 Yvonne: Hmmm... beautiful.
00:53 James: Jason, you want to pray for us?
00:55 Jason: Sure. James: All right.
00:56 Jason: "Dear Heavenly Father, we ask that you would
00:59 please fill the Studio with your Holy Spirit
01:01 and as we study,
01:03 we ask that you would please bring back to our remembrance
01:06 the things we have studied in the past
01:08 and help us to understand the new things
01:10 that are being introduced to us today
01:12 in Jesus' name we pray, amen. "
01:14 All: "Amen. "
01:15 James: There is a beautiful picture that develops
01:18 in relation to this phrase,
01:20 "The hour of His judgment is come"
01:22 in the context of the everlasting gospel,
01:24 and I want us to look at three Bible verses,
01:25 the first one is Romans 14 and I believe it's verse 12,
01:31 Jason, if you could look that one up for us
01:33 and the second verse is found in Matthew 7:21 to 23...
01:40 if you could look those up for us, Ivor,
01:42 and then the third one is found in Revelation 12 verse 10.
01:45 Jason: Romans 14 verse 12.
01:49 James: Romans 14... hold on the verse,
01:51 let me get there and make sure it's that verse,
01:53 it might be verse 10... but it's verse 10
01:58 and read all the way though through... verse 10...
02:03 all the way through to verse 13.
02:07 Jason: Okay, "But why dost thou judge thy brother?
02:11 or why dost thou set at naught thy brother?
02:14 for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.
02:17 For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord,
02:20 every knee shall bow to me,
02:21 and every tongue shall confess to God.
02:23 So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.
02:27 Let us not therefore judge one another anymore:
02:30 but judge this rather,
02:32 that no man put a stumbling block
02:34 or an occasion to fall in his brother's way. "
02:37 James: Wow! three reasons for the judgment,
02:40 reason number one,
02:41 so we don't have to judge another anymore,
02:43 one another anymore...
02:44 stop judging one another, God...
02:46 we'll all stand before the judgment seat of Christ,
02:48 God has a judgment... the hour of His judgment is come
02:51 He has a judgment, He's going to make...
02:53 take account of every single person...
02:55 we don't need to hold people accountable,
02:57 God is going to hold people accountable, so...
02:59 Jason: Where is that verse...
03:01 like you get the moat out of your own eye or something...
03:07 James: Matthew 5... Jason: Is that where we're going?
03:09 James: No... but it's a good verse to add to it, yeah...
03:11 "Judge not that ye be not judged. "
03:13 Yvonne: But what about "judge righteous judgment?"
03:16 James: "Judge righteous judgment... "
03:17 what's the first thing that we should judge righteously?
03:21 That Christ is Judge... He's ultimately the Judge...
03:25 so, there is a place for us to "judge righteous judgment"
03:29 in the sense of making sure we do things right,
03:32 in our own lives and the lives of others,
03:33 when it comes to salvation...
03:34 when it comes to the everlasting gospel,
03:36 okay, so, if you go to the store
03:39 and you pay four dollars and fifty cents for something
03:41 and you give them a 20 dollar bill
03:42 and they give 50 cents back, so you say,
03:45 "Wait a minute... wait a minute I need 15 more dollars,"
03:47 right, that's righteous judgment...
03:48 "I need 15 more dollars... "
03:50 Ivor: But they might say, "Don't judge me... "
03:51 James: And you say, "No one's judging you,
03:53 I just need my 15 dollars back...
03:55 if you don't give me my 15 dollars back,
03:56 you are lost in hell. "
03:58 Well, now wait a minute, now that's going one step further,
04:00 you see what I'm saying?
04:01 And that's where we're called as Christians not to judge others
04:04 when it comes to the everlasting gospel...
04:06 when it comes to salvation,
04:07 "We hope all things, we believe all things,
04:09 we do all things... " that's what love does.
04:11 It doesn't mean that we have to let people walk all over us,
04:15 it doesn't mean that we have to live up... live with abuse...
04:18 or allow people to abuse us,
04:19 but it simply means that we hope the best for others
04:23 so the context of this verse...
04:25 I love this because the everlasting gospel
04:27 calls us in the context of Romans 14,
04:29 not to judge one another but rather,
04:31 not to be a stumbling block,
04:33 so that's the reason number one for the judgment,
04:35 reason number two, is in Matthew chapter 7:21 to 23.
04:38 Ivor: All right, Matthew 7:21,
04:40 "Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord,
04:43 shall enter into the kingdom of heaven;
04:45 but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
04:48 Many will say to me in that day,
04:50 Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name?
04:52 and in thy name have cast out devils?
04:55 and in thy name done many wonderful works?
04:57 And then will I profess unto them,
04:59 I never knew you: depart from me,
05:01 ye that work iniquity. "
05:03 James: So, here we have a group of people
05:05 who are professing to be followers of God,
05:07 they call Him, "Lord... "
05:08 and Jesus says to them, "I don't know you... "
05:11 and they say, "But we've done all these works"
05:13 So, reason number two for the judgment is,
05:15 we cannot be saved by our wonderful deeds,
05:17 we can't be saved by our works.
05:18 We have to have a relationship with Christ,
05:20 we have to have trust in Christ
05:22 and that's been the emphasis of the everlasting gospel
05:23 so, reason number one,
05:25 "Don't judge one another... God has a judgment... "
05:28 okay, the hour of His judgment is come,
05:30 He's going to take care of all the inadequacies,
05:32 all of the issues, all of the problems,
05:33 all the questions we have, when it comes to salvation
05:36 leave people with God,
05:37 reason number two,
05:38 "Don't trust your own works for salvation"
05:40 and then reason number three is Revelation chapter 12
05:43 and verse 10, and that verse is what Yvonne has.
05:47 Yvonne: "Then I heard a loud voice saying in heaven,
05:50 now salvation and strength and the kingdom of our God,
05:53 and the power of his Christ: have come
05:55 for the accuser of our brethren
05:57 who accused them before our God day and night
06:00 has been cast down... "
06:02 James: "Amen. " Yvonne: "Amen. "
06:04 James: Okay, so he's accusing day and night...
06:06 24... 7... 365...
06:09 my wife likes to take vacations she doesn't take any...
06:12 all right, so, when we look at the judgment...
06:15 one of the main reasons for the judgment... I'm going to say,
06:18 "the main reason that comes to the top is, this accuser... "
06:21 see in 1st John 2 it says,
06:23 "If any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father,
06:26 Jesus Christ the righteous:
06:27 And he is not only the propitiation for our sins:
06:29 but for the sins of the whole world. "
06:30 Why do we have an advocate with the Father?
06:32 Some people think,
06:33 "Oh because Jesus is more merciful than God
06:37 and God is kind of like, pointing out our problems...
06:38 our sins... our...
06:40 and Jesus is trying to convince God to love us... "
06:42 no, "For God so loved the world
06:43 that He gave His only begotten Son... "
06:45 Jesus said, "If you've seen me, you've seen the Father... "
06:48 the reason why we have an advocate with the Father
06:51 is because we have an accuser of the brethren... Satan...
06:54 Jesus is defending us before the Father
06:56 from the accusations of Satan,
06:58 you say, "Well, why does that defend us from the Father?"
06:59 Because the Father is fair... He's righteous...
07:02 He understands sin... He understands the accusations
07:05 but He can silence them based upon the merits of Jesus Christ
07:09 and that's what He does,
07:10 the judgment is all about God vindicating us
07:14 through Christ from the accusations of Satan.
07:17 It's all about our Advocate silencing the accuser,
07:22 Joshua chapter 3 brings this out,
07:24 the Old Testament book of Joshua... no... Joshua?
07:26 What am I thinking?
07:28 Zechariah chapter 3... Joshua and the angel...
07:30 that's what I was thinking of, same thing,
07:33 "The Lord rebuke you... "
07:34 "This is a Brad plucked out of the fire... "
07:36 and we're clothed with the raiment of white,
07:38 this is the picture of the judgment
07:40 so when you look at the judgment
07:41 in the context of the everlasting gospel
07:43 you see, some Christians really struggle with this idea
07:46 of the investigative judgment, "Why is God judging us?"
07:49 Well, the reason why is because we have the accuser
07:51 the reason why is because we are judging one another,
07:54 the reason why is because we're depending on our own works,
07:57 and so God has a judgment to wipe out all of that
07:59 so that we will put our complete trust in Christ as our Advocate,
08:02 that's what the judgment is all about.
08:04 So, in the judgment,
08:06 Christ stands as the One who vindicates us
08:09 from depending on our own works...
08:11 from the accusations of Satan
08:13 and from all this inclination we have
08:15 to judge and measure others.
08:17 Ivor: Yeah, yeah,
08:19 the question that I think a lot of people have is,
08:22 "Okay, judgment... how do I pass it...
08:24 how do I pass it?"
08:26 So, I'll give an Old Testament illustration
08:29 because there was a time...
08:31 when this happens, there's going to come a point
08:33 where the whole world will be filled with wickedness,
08:35 right, the judgment is preparing us to escape
08:38 the coming judgment of God upon this world,
08:41 well, guess what, remember back in the Old Testament?
08:43 There was a guy by the name of Noah
08:44 and he warned for 120 years of a coming flood...
08:50 we're warning that fire is going to fall from the sky,
08:53 that's our warning... "Hey, it's going to rain fire,"
08:56 "Come on Man! it's never rained fire before,
08:57 what are you talking about?" You know...
08:59 same thing in the days of Noah, "It's going to rain... "
09:01 "It's never rained before... "
09:02 very interesting... how was Noah saved?
09:05 The Bible says, "Noah found grace in the eyes of the Lord"
09:08 there it is again, the gospel of grace, right,
09:11 Noah was saved by grace
09:13 but watch what happens after Noah preaches,
09:16 um... well... let me phrase it this way...
09:19 in Noah's day... salvation...
09:21 the way that Noah escaped the judgment of God
09:24 was through wood that was lifted up above the earth.
09:30 All: Hmmm...
09:32 Yvonne: Wow... come on... come on...
09:34 Ivor: Wood lifted up above the earth,
09:36 and whoever was in that wood... lifted up above the earth,
09:39 whoever was in that ark, get into the ark...
09:43 right, whoever was hidden in that ark was safe.
09:46 So the gospel message is... the everlasting gospel...
09:50 is doing the same thing...
09:52 it's the same message in Noah's day,
09:53 "Get into the ark... " right,
09:55 but the ark... it is Christ...
09:57 it's the Most Holy Place...
09:59 it is being hidden in Him
10:01 and realizing that it is only through Him
10:03 that we can make it through the judgment
10:06 and so, what happens with Noah?
10:08 The ark takes him from an old world to a new world.
10:12 James: Good... love it... Yvonne: Hmmm...
10:14 Ivor: Yeah, and there's a rainbow that says,
10:16 "Hey, destruction will never come again... in a certain way"
10:19 that whole picture is a picture of what God is doing with us
10:23 and by-the-way in the ark there was only one window
10:25 which means... the only place that Noah could look
10:28 was not around... "Oh Man! look, Sister Betty is lost... "
10:31 no... the only thing he could do was look up...
10:34 look up... look up... right... and so,
10:36 that's what God's calling us to do.
10:39 "Fear God and give Him glory, look up... " right...
10:42 "focus on the Lamb on the cross" and it is through that
10:45 that we're going to be...
10:46 that we will ultimately pass the judgment
10:49 which leads us to...
10:51 James: To trust in Christ,
10:52 I just... I just want to emphasize again
10:55 what Ivor said, I love this
10:56 because what we're discovering here
10:59 in the three angels' messages...
11:01 at least in this first angel... the everlasting gospel,
11:03 we're discovering this emphasis on trusting in Christ,
11:06 which is what the group learned...
11:08 who follow the Lamb wherever He goes
11:10 and that's the answer to
11:11 worshipping the beast and his image.
11:13 Once you start trusting Jesus
11:15 in following Him wherever He goes,
11:17 you can't worship the beast, you can't worship his image,
11:19 you can't receive his mark, you can't do that,
11:21 it's not that it is impossible...
11:23 you just... you incline toward a different path...
11:27 you incline toward God.
11:28 Next phrase... Revelation 14 and verse 7,
11:32 final phrase, "And worship Him that made
11:36 heaven and earth and the seas and the fountains of waters. "
11:38 Now, we've already unpacked this a little bit
11:41 in relation to worship,
11:42 we've looked at the crisis that worship brings
11:45 to Revelation 13 and 14,
11:47 it's worshipping the beast and his image...
11:48 or it's worshipping God...
11:49 and we looked at the Sabbath... the seventh day of the week
11:52 versus Sunday... the first day of the week
11:53 and how those two days pitch two groups of people
11:57 either worshipping earthly kingdoms...
11:59 traditions of man... et cetera, a man's laws...
12:02 or worshipping God according to the Bible
12:03 but there's something more here
12:05 that I want us to just touch on
12:07 in relation to the everlasting gospel
12:08 when God created the Sabbath, He created it on the seventh day
12:15 he worked in creating this world in six days...
12:18 on the sixth day... He created mankind
12:21 and then the first thing that we did...
12:24 when after we were created is we rested on the Sabbath.
12:28 So, when God created this world,
12:30 He did it without us but He did it for us,
12:32 there was nothing we could point to and say,
12:34 "Oh! you see that tree over there...
12:36 well, I did the trunk and God did the branches...
12:39 and then I put the leaves and then He did the fruit... "
12:41 there was nothing you could point to and say,
12:43 you helped God do this,
12:44 God did it all by Himself but He did it for us.
12:47 So the first thing He does is,
12:49 "I want you to rest on Sabbath
12:51 and everything I've done for you without you. "
12:53 That's what the Sabbath reminds us to do,
12:55 to rest in everything He did for us... without us...
12:57 that's before the fall, then we fall...
13:00 Jesus becomes a man... the Bible says,
13:03 "Of the people there were none with Him,
13:05 He trod the winepress alone. "
13:07 He lived a perfect life, no man ever did that
13:09 so He did that... and we never helped Him do it,
13:12 then He died on the cross for our sins,
13:14 now when God created the world, He finished it in six days
13:18 and the sixth day was Friday
13:21 and when He came to the sixth day,
13:24 He said, "It is finished... "
13:27 when Jesus came, He came to recreate man in God's image...
13:31 He did it in Himself,
13:32 He lived a perfect life
13:34 and "He who carried the image of man in Himself... "
13:36 this is what man looks like,
13:37 this is what you were created to be like,
13:39 then He went to the cross and He took upon Himself
13:41 the wages of mankind's sin... all of it...
13:44 what day was it that He went to the cross?
13:46 Friday...
13:48 and what did He say just before He died on the cross?
13:51 Yvonne: "It is finished... "
13:52 James: Yeah, "It is finished... "
13:54 What's finished? The re-creation of mankind
13:56 in the image of God is finished,
13:57 and then what did He do
13:59 after He finished his work of re-creation?
14:01 He rested on the seventh day,
14:03 just like God did when He finished His work of creation...
14:05 Christ did...
14:06 just like God created the world by Himself for us,
14:09 Christ re-created mankind by Himself... for us... as a gift
14:13 and he rested on the Sabbath
14:15 so when we keep the Sabbath, it's to remind us
14:18 of everything God did for us without us.
14:22 It's to remind us...
14:24 the everlasting gospel calls us to remember the Sabbath
14:27 to remind us of everything God did for us...
14:29 so it's not legalism, it's not...
14:31 we're not saved by keeping the Sabbath,
14:33 we keep the Sabbath to remind us to rest in Jesus
14:36 for the gift of salvation,
14:37 that's what the everlasting gospel
14:39 tells us about the Sabbath.
14:41 Ivor: So, this gospel message goes into all the world
14:44 right, to every nation, kindred, tongue and people
14:47 which by-the-way, is a call for us to be able to minister
14:51 to every nation, kindred, tongue and people.
14:53 God is looking to save as many as He possibly can
14:57 right, this first angel's message goes forth
15:00 and it's bringing into light the truth of God
15:03 okay, so the first angel's message
15:05 if we were to summarize it... God's truth...
15:08 that leads us to the second angel's message
15:10 which... if we were to summarize it,
15:11 Satan's error...
15:13 we get to the third angel's message,
15:15 and it's very simple... truth...
15:17 right, first angel... the truth, second angel... error...
15:23 third angel... truth.
15:25 Yvonne: Hmmm... James: Hmmm... hmmm...
15:26 Ivor: That's Revelation 14...
15:29 juiced down to three words, right,
15:31 but let's look at the second angel's message,
15:33 Revelation 14 verse 8, the Bible says,
15:35 "And there followed another angel,
15:38 saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city,
15:41 because she made all nations
15:44 drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication. "
15:47 So, she is described here as "that great city"
15:52 and in the... in the book of Revelation...
15:56 chapter 17... verse 18...
15:59 James, you want to just read that for me quickly,
16:01 Revelation 17 verse 18.
16:03 James: Revelation 17 verse 18,
16:06 "And the woman which thou sawest is that great city,
16:12 which reigns over the kings of the earth. "
16:14 Ivor: Okay, so, this woman
16:15 is actually described in the same chapter verse 5,
16:19 her name is "Mystery Babylon
16:21 mother of harlots and abominations of the earth"
16:23 so, what we have in Revelation chapter 14,
16:27 is warning against Mystery Babylon.
16:30 It's this warning against this woman
16:33 who is called a harlot,
16:36 who is called a prostitute basically.
16:40 So, why is she called a prostitute
16:42 and why is she described as a woman?
16:45 Well, first of all, in the Bible a woman...
16:49 as we have seen in our... in earlier studies
16:51 is symbolic of a church,
16:53 so this is a church that God is warning against, right,
16:58 Mystery Babylon... but she has daughters...
17:00 so there are daughter churches that come out of her
17:02 while the key thing that I want you to remember here is this,
17:06 a harlot is one who does not regard "wedding vows"
17:11 that's what a harlot is,
17:13 she's one who doesn't regard wedding vows, okay,
17:16 she is... she does not regard marriage...
17:19 so, God has...
17:24 the Bible talks about Christ and His bride... the church...
17:27 well, they have wedding vows, what are those wedding vows?
17:31 Pause...
17:33 It's the Law of God, right?
17:35 And, in fact, you're not actually...
17:38 I like to put it this way... Christ came to this world,
17:41 by-the-way, the Bible says,
17:42 "A man shall leave his mother and father
17:44 and cleave unto his wife. "
17:45 So, Christ in heaven was like,
17:46 "You know, Father, there's this girl that I like,
17:49 she's already on earth... " love story right...
17:52 "and, I want her... "
17:54 and so Father says, "You know... you know...
17:56 you have to leave your Father if you want to go... "
17:58 and what does Jesus do? He leaves His father...
18:01 and He becomes... the two become one flesh...
18:04 so, Christ comes down, He proposed to us...
18:08 but that proposal was on the cross.
18:10 "Hey, this is how much I love you... will you marry me?"
18:13 And it's like, "Oh, how romantic... "
18:17 after we spit on Him... and did all this...
18:19 He says, "Hey, this is how much I love you. "
18:21 So the cross is His proposal to us
18:23 but you're not married... just because someone proposes.
18:26 All: Hmmm... hmmm...
18:28 True marriage comes after wedding vows are exchanged
18:31 so what are God's wedding vows?
18:33 They're His commandments.
18:35 So you and the Lord are there at the altar...
18:37 "Do you promise to have no other gods before me?"
18:39 "I do... "
18:41 "You promise not to worship any graven images?"
18:44 "I do... "
18:46 The harlot... is the one who comes to those vows
18:50 and says, "No... no, no, no, no, no,
18:52 I don't want to submit to these vows. "
18:54 Any church that teaches that you can follow Christ
19:00 without obeying His commandments,
19:02 he, therefore, identifies
19:04 as one who is not into wedding vows... a harlot...
19:07 that's what He's warning against... with Babylon...
19:10 it's a warning against... going against his wedding vows,
19:15 "If you love me, keep my commandments. "
19:18 By-the-way, true love... true love...
19:22 when you got married... when I got married...
19:25 when we marry, it's like, you're not thinking
19:29 "Okay, wedding vows... what?"
19:31 "Do you promise to have no other men...
19:33 no other men or women in your life?"
19:34 James: Of course!
19:35 Ivor: "Ah Man! No other women? Are you serious?
19:38 Isn't that being... aren't you being, like, legalistic?
19:40 Come on, seriously?"
19:42 Nah... the woman that you touch, she would be like...
19:45 she'd slap you and walk away, right?
19:46 Laughter...
19:48 Ivor: True love... James: Your wife would do that.
19:49 Ivor: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah... yes...
19:52 right, true love... does not think,
19:54 "Ah, wedding vows... wedding vows... wedding... "
19:57 when you're not in love, the wedding vows are a bondage.
20:01 All: Yes, hmmm... Hmmm...
20:03 Ivor: If the commandments of God are bondage to you...
20:05 James: You're not in love.
20:07 Yvonne: Oh, which is why He said, "If you love me... "
20:10 Ivor: That's right, "if you love me... "
20:12 if you love someone, you're not thinking,
20:13 "Oh yeah, now, what did the wedding vows say again?"
20:15 James: Got a verse... got a verse...
20:17 got a verse, got a verse, Jason?
20:19 Jason: No, I'm just thinking,
20:20 that's also why we have to introduce people to Christ,
20:24 before... we don't just start... like,
20:27 "Here are the wedding vows... take that... "
20:29 Ivor: Prearranged marriage... Yvonne: Yeah, right, right.
20:32 James: "For this is the love of God,
20:33 that we keep his commandments:
20:35 and his commandments are not grievous"
20:36 burdensome... it's 1st John chapter 5 verse 3.
20:39 Ivor: That's right, that's right.
20:40 James: I love that. Yvonne: Me too.
20:42 James: Babylon is fallen... and here's how Babylon falls,
20:44 in this context, Babylon has this false gospel,
20:47 this false doctrine,
20:49 the only way Babylon will fall,
20:51 is this... the gospel is preached...
20:52 that's why the first angel has to go first.
20:54 The first angel can't go second, the first angel has to go first
20:58 because notice, the second angel follows the first angel
21:01 and the second angel announces, Babylon is fallen,
21:04 well, how did Babylon fall?
21:05 The everlasting gospel was preached.
21:07 Ivor: That's right.
21:09 James: Whoa... when the everlasting gospel is preached,
21:11 it produces the fall of Babylon...
21:13 so the second angel is simply following the first angel
21:17 who is pronouncing this everlasting gospel...
21:19 you got to saturate people with Jesus...
21:21 and the everlasting gospel... the Sabbath...
21:23 the judgment... fear God... give glory to Him...
21:25 all of it has to be understood in the context
21:27 of this beautiful gospel message.
21:29 Resting in Christ... trusting in Christ...
21:32 in His righteousness...
21:33 having fear or hope in the Lord,
21:36 giving glory to Him... being saved by grace...
21:39 and that knocks Babylon off its feet.
21:41 Ivor: Hmmm... hmmm...
21:42 James: It demolishes Babylon
21:44 because Babylon is a System that points to creature merit,
21:47 it points to man's glory... it points everything to us...
21:50 and so, Babylon gets knocked out when the gospel is preached
21:53 and then we move to the third angel's message...
21:55 and the third angel's message... we've already covered it...
21:58 but just to summarize it...
21:59 the third angel's message calls us
22:01 not to receive the Mark of the Beast...
22:04 his image, his mark... the number of his name...
22:06 that if we do...
22:08 we're going to be tormented with fire and brimstone
22:11 in the presence of the holy angels
22:12 and the presence of the Lamb,
22:14 now, one little point here that I think is really important
22:16 and that is... in the context of the third angel's message
22:19 the torment takes place in God's presence
22:21 and the reason for that is because
22:23 God Himself is a devouring fire,
22:26 the angels and God... the holiness in the presence of God
22:29 is what consumes or destroys the lost...
22:32 hell's not some place in the Netherlands...
22:35 underneath the earth...
22:37 some place where it burns for all eternity... no...
22:39 it takes place for a certain amount of time
22:42 in the very presence of God and that's it...
22:44 it's over... it's done... it's finished...
22:47 God is not the kind of God
22:48 that torments and tortures people forever and ever
22:51 and ever and ever and ever...
22:52 now, the phrase here, yeah... it says, "forever and ever... "
22:54 but that's because of the condition...
22:57 the experience that they're going through
22:59 I mean, when I pulled up here to the studios,
23:02 I don't know... I don't think our Viewers know this
23:05 but it's cold here...
23:06 I mean, it's snowing outside...
23:08 I mean, I left 60-degree weather to come out here,
23:10 I made some sacrifices
23:11 and it's mostly 60s next week when we leave, right?
23:13 Yvonne: Right. Jason: It's a counterfeit spring
23:15 James: Okay, so it's a counterfeit spring,
23:16 so I pull up in my rental car... get out the door... and it...
23:20 I mean, it was forever to get from my car to the door
23:23 and I wanted that buzzer to be pushed so I could get in,
23:26 then I remember... "Oh, I left my phone in the car"
23:28 so then, I had to go back out in the cold to get my phone,
23:32 when you're in an uncomfortable position,
23:35 a little bit of time feels like "forever... "
23:37 and this position that these guys are going to be in
23:40 in the context of being lost is going to be very uncomfortable
23:42 so it seems like forever...
23:43 Jonah, was in the belly of the whale,
23:45 and he said, "forever... "
23:46 but it was actually for three days and three nights,
23:47 it wasn't forever.
23:49 The Bible uses this phrase to describe an experience
23:52 that is very uncomfortable, so it seems like a long time,
23:55 even eternity,
23:57 "I've been waiting for you... " well...
23:59 this morning, you guys were waiting for me forever, huh?
24:01 Jason: Well, we weren't going to call you out... or anything
24:05 we were going to let you slide.
24:07 James: And, of course, of course, I returned the favor,
24:10 you returned the favor...
24:12 Jason: Right after lunch...
24:13 James: Yeah, I had to wait for you...
24:14 so, but it's... the Bible uses the phrase the same way,
24:17 the same way...
24:18 Ivor: I think it's important to see here as well
24:20 because some people are like, "You know what?
24:21 That this is evidence that the wicked burn forever... "
24:25 but you got to look carefully because
24:27 where are they being tormented?
24:29 In the presence of the Lamb and in the presence of God.
24:32 Well, where is God and the Lamb?
24:34 Where are they going to spend eternity?
24:35 Where are they going to spend eternity?
24:38 In heaven... well if this is true...
24:40 this means that the wicked... guess where they are?
24:42 In heaven...
24:44 James: Hmmm... hmmm... Yvonne: Hmmm...
24:45 Ivor: Huh, wait a minute... that doesn't make sense,
24:47 no, no, no, so this reveals that this...
24:49 the wicked will not spend eternity
24:53 in the presence of the Lamb, only the righteous do.
24:55 James: Right. Ivor: So this... I mean...
24:57 we're not going into this in great detail about it now,
24:59 but, this...
25:01 James: But we will, Revelation 20...
25:02 Ivor: We will, Revelation 20...
25:04 this definitely shows that the wicked do not suffer...
25:07 and in fact, I have a verse here,
25:09 just go with me very quickly... Psalm 37 verse 20...
25:11 because this... says, "And the smoke of their torment
25:14 ascendeth up for ever and ever... "
25:16 and I want you to notice that, it's not...
25:18 it's the smoke of their torment that ascends up forever and ever
25:24 so Psalm 37 verse 20,
25:26 whoever finds that first... go ahead and read it,
25:29 Yvonne: "But the wicked shall perish,
25:30 and the enemies of the LORD
25:32 like the splendor of the meadows shall vanish into smoke...
25:36 shall they vanish away. "
25:37 Ivor: Okay, so the Bible says here
25:39 that the wicked will vanish away into what?
25:42 Into smoke... all right, so where are they?
25:44 They have vanished...
25:46 the only remainder is what? Smoke...
25:48 So, it's the smoke of their torment...
25:51 that ascendeth up forever and ever,
25:54 it's not that they're being tormented...
25:56 think about the Twin Towers when they fell...
25:58 the smoke from the Twin Towers
26:00 hovered over New York for a long time,
26:03 that's just two buildings,
26:05 imagine the whole world going up in smoke...
26:08 you know, who knows...
26:10 there may be some column of smoke throughout the universe,
26:12 you know... the newly created...
26:14 that's all that's left...
26:15 we don't know but what I'm saying is that
26:17 it's not the wicked that are tormented forever,
26:19 it's the smoke, the Bible says, "that ascends forever. "
26:23 All: Hmmm...
26:24 So, this again, points to the fact that God is a God of love,
26:28 you cannot... you cannot... you know...
26:30 say that a God of love
26:32 burns and torments people forever and ever,
26:34 this is against the very character of God
26:36 which we will get into... in another Program.
26:38 Yvonne: Malachi 4...
26:40 James: That was the verse I was thinking of too.
26:42 Yvonne: Verse 3... "Ye shall trample the wicked
26:45 for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet
26:48 on the day that I do this, saith the LORD of hosts. "
26:51 So, ashes means... they're gone...
26:54 James: That's it... Ivor: Absolutely.
26:57 Yvonne: So, they're not going to be burned forever and ever
26:59 because they will be ashes.
27:00 Ivor: That teaching is probably the greatest...
27:05 the single most popularly used reason
27:08 to deny the existence of God.
27:10 All: Hmmm...
27:11 Ivor: "How can God be love if this is what He does?"
27:15 James: This created more Atheists than any other teaching
27:17 I think... that... that... false teaching
27:19 and that is a Babylonian... that's the wine of Babylon...
27:22 that's part of the wine of Babylon...
27:23 and it's going to come down when the gospel is preached.
27:25 It's going to... it's going to...
27:27 Babylon is going to fall when the gospel is preached.
27:29 Babylon is... there are a couple of definitions,
27:32 one of the definitions is, "confusion... "
27:34 getting the Gods... is another one...
27:35 confusion... it's a false presentation of God
27:40 it brings you to the gates of the "gods" of this world
27:44 and it confuses the true gospel,
27:46 we talked about this earlier when we talked about the fact
27:48 that there's... Christianity has one message of grace...
27:51 all the other religions is merit... it's creature merit...
27:54 it's our works...
27:55 so we're out of time
27:57 but we'll continue this in our next Program.


Revised 2017-07-17