Participants: Steve Wohlberg (Host), Antionette Duck
Series Code: TAC
Program Code: TAC000006A
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00:08 Over a million abortions take place every year
00:10 in the United States alone. 00:12 In China they say it's some where around 30 million. 00:15 When you add up all the figures world wide, 00:18 the number is truly staggering 00:19 and one of the biggest issues facing humanity is, 00:23 is abortion taking a life of a real human being or not? 00:28 That's the topic that we're gonna be exploring 00:31 next in The Abortion Controversy. 01:02 Welcome to Part 6 01:03 of the series called The Abortion Controversy, 01:05 13 programs dealing with topic 01:07 that in many circles it's just hush, hush. 01:10 People don't want to talk about it. 01:11 It's like skeleton in the closet. 01:14 But we believe that it is time to bring that skeleton 01:17 out of the closet to take a close look at it 01:19 and to find out really what is going on. 01:22 My guest is Antionette Duck. 01:24 She is the founder of Mafgia ministry 01:27 that is really going public with a lot of information. 01:30 She is telling her story. 01:32 She has an associate Dianne Wagner, 01:34 that is, telling her story and so thank you for joining us 01:37 and we're just gonna go right in. 01:39 So Antionette, here we are again. 01:42 It's a privilege and a blessing to be here with you 01:45 and it's very enlightening 01:46 to hear the information that you have. 01:48 Now I have a quotation here 01:51 that I'm sure you are familiar with 01:52 and this is from, The Alan Guttmacher Institute 01:56 that which is a research wing of Planned Parenthood. 02:00 According to them 43.8 million abortions have taken place, 02:05 took place in 2008. 02:07 And according to the world health organization, 02:10 it's somewhere around 45 million 02:13 world wide every year. 02:16 Now as I mentioned a little bit ago, 02:18 really one of the biggest issues is, 02:20 is are these abortions, just removing a mass of cells, 02:25 is it just a clump of protoplasm 02:29 or are these real human beings that are being aborted? 02:33 So let's go and let's hear what you have to say. 02:37 Sure. 02:39 At the outside underline this issue 02:42 I think it's something we need to come to terms with is that 02:46 abortion either takes the life of the innocent human being 02:49 or it doesn't. 02:50 It can be one or it can be the other 02:52 but it cannot be both. 02:53 It can't. There's no neutral. 02:55 It's either. There is not a neutral ground. 02:56 It's A or B, not C. That's right. 02:59 So the only reason then to oppose abortion, 03:02 if it does take the life of an innocent human being. 03:05 If the unborn is not human, 03:07 there is no reason to oppose it ever. 03:10 But if the unborn is human 03:12 then we have to seriously re-examine 03:15 our reasons for doing it. 03:18 Today throughout the program 03:19 I'll be referring to various organizations 03:21 who just have a tremendous amount of experience 03:24 in this issue, 03:25 one that I, myself have worked with in the past, 03:28 the name of the organization is called Justice For All. 03:33 Do they have a website? They do. 03:34 It's www.jfaweb.org. 03:38 Okay, and you are pretty familiar 03:39 with this organization. 03:41 Yes, yes, yes. 03:42 I was able to work with them back in 2005. 03:43 Their approach is very different 03:45 from the Mafgia's 03:47 because they only in that, they do is graphic images 03:51 and seeking to reach people. 03:54 Very briefly, their reason for doing that, 03:57 for using the graphic images 03:58 is they rely on the underline principle 04:02 of the story found or the story of Emmett Till. 04:06 In that story there was an African American boy. 04:09 He was, it was back prior to the Civil Rights movement. 04:12 He was from Chicago and he had family down in Mississippi. 04:18 He really wanted to go down and visit his cousins, 04:20 his mother before he left, 04:21 she really tried to emphasize to him, 04:23 "You need to understand Black doesn't touch White, 04:27 you have to show the utmost difference 04:29 and respect to Caucasian people, 04:31 you don't touch them, 04:32 you don't look them in the eye." 04:33 And he said, "I know mom, I'm ready to go, let me go." 04:36 So she lets him go down, he visits his cousins. 04:39 While he was down there, it is believed that 04:43 he started bragging to his cousins 04:45 and saying, you know what? 04:46 I don't just have, 04:48 I don't just go to school with girls, 04:50 I also have two white girlfriends." 04:52 And his cousins said well, you think you know, 04:56 "If you're so wonderful with the white girls, 04:58 why don't you go into that store 04:59 and say hello to the sales clerk." 05:01 She was a White. Who was a white woman. 05:03 So they were just goading him on, just daring him. 05:05 Yes, but not understanding maybe how dangerous 05:08 the situation that was. 05:09 A lot different from Las Angeles where I grew up. 05:11 Yes, well, he goes, he ends up buying a pack of bubble gum 05:15 as he's leaving the store, 05:17 he supposedly turned around to the women and said, 05:19 "Bye baby" and runs off the porch. 05:21 So they were two African American men 05:23 who were sitting on the porch, 05:25 and they said, "Boy, you better get out of here 05:27 because they are gonna kill you." 05:28 And at 2 a.m. 05:29 the next morning, Emmett Till was extracted from gun point, 05:33 by gun point from his uncle's house. 05:35 And the next time any one saw him, 05:38 his face literally did not look human. 05:40 What they did to him, 05:42 so completely marred and disfigured him 05:44 that he just didn't look human any longer. 05:46 I'm assuming he was dead at that point. 05:48 Oh, yes, totally. 05:50 His mother, they, the corners put his body in the casket, 05:54 sealed it up, shifted back to Chicago 05:56 and his mother decided, 06:00 "I'm going to have an open cascade funeral." 06:02 And when that happened 06:05 people said, "Ms. Till, don't you understand 06:07 how disturbing this will be to people. 06:09 His face has been so disfigured." 06:11 And she said, "I want the whole world to see 06:14 what they did to my boy." 06:17 "Jet Magazine" ended up, being present at the funeral, 06:20 they took a photo and published it in their magazine 06:23 and later when Rosa parks 06:25 refused to go to the back of the bus, 06:27 she cited Emmet Till's photo as part of her motivation 06:32 and sociologists say that that was so pivotal. 06:37 People are being able to see. 06:39 He, what I really appreciate about the training at JFA, 06:43 they ask, was Emmett Till the first child 06:46 who was ever killed or murdered in the South? 06:48 No. 06:50 Was he last child who was ever murdered in the South? 06:52 Very likely not and yet what was the difference? 06:55 That people could see it. 06:56 It now had a face. 06:58 It like the classic statement, 06:59 "A picture is worth a thousand words." 07:01 Absolutely. 07:02 I wanted to, I think I've shared this with you before, 07:04 when you talk about the pictures, 07:06 I just want to share something that 07:07 when I first learned about you and your associate, Dianne, 07:10 I mentioned this before, I was in a hotel in Oregon, 07:13 I heard your testimony on my phone 07:16 and I was so just struck by it 07:19 that I decided we needed to bring you here. 07:21 We needed to go forward and do a series like this 07:23 and anyway, that I believe it was a Saturday night. 07:25 That night I decided to do some more research on abortion 07:28 and I went on to YouTube and I found 07:31 a video that was very graphic 07:35 and when I was done watching that program, 07:40 I literally, I was crying, I got on top of my bed, 07:44 I knelt down and I prayed 07:45 and I prayed some thing like this. 07:47 I just said, "God," I said, 07:49 I don't even want to be part of the human race anymore. 07:53 I am so just so shocked 07:56 that this can actually be happening," 07:58 and I was just like, "get me off of this planet right now." 08:02 I was so ashamed. 08:03 I was so embarrassed 08:04 even though I wasn't involved in it. 08:06 I was just horrified 08:07 and I'm sure you'll probably agree that 08:09 we shouldn't be putting these images in front of everybody 08:13 all the time. 08:15 But there is a place for the reality to hit us 08:19 of what's really going on. 08:20 Yes, and that's what I really appreciate about their approach 08:23 that there is a place and it's something that does bring back 08:28 to the forefront of our understanding 08:31 what is really going on. 08:32 Are they Christians, non-Christians, 08:33 a mixture of both or... 08:35 They are, yes, they are Christian organization, 08:37 multi-denominational. 08:40 And even though the Mafgia's approach is different 08:44 we've really focused on healing, the sanctity, 08:48 the intrinsic value of the human being 08:50 and healing for people who are post aborted. 08:51 I mean, we don't choose to use graphic images 08:55 but there's certainly is a place 08:56 and I have truly appreciated the training 08:59 and the, just wisdom and understanding that I have 09:02 received in working with them 09:03 and so we'll be using some of that 09:05 as we go through out the course of our program. 09:07 Okay, so tell me a little more about them. 09:08 You told me that you've been to some of their meetings. 09:10 What are they doing? 09:12 How are they trying to reach out? 09:13 They primarily work on college campuses, 09:16 taking different images, asking questions 09:20 to really trying to get, 09:21 they focus on the 18-24 year demographic 09:24 and they're really attempting 09:25 to get the conversation started, 09:27 particularly at that level. 09:29 The majority of abortions take place 09:31 over a million in the United States every year. 09:33 During that age group? 09:34 They take place between 18 and 24 years old, 09:36 which makes sense. 09:37 You have a lot of single people, college age. 09:40 They are making a whole lot of choices 09:41 that perhaps you didn't have the opportunity to make before 09:44 and they are really focused on reaching the group 09:48 that truly is um, experiencing this. 09:51 Having the most aborted. Yes, the most. 09:53 Okay, on these college campuses, 09:55 when they share pictures and information, 09:58 what kind of response do they get? 09:59 The response is tremendous. 10:00 You have a really, really sort of runs the-- 10:03 Some people are very angry, 10:04 some people quite don't know what to think 10:06 but with their approach because they are operating 10:08 normally in a secular environment, 10:11 they are not using scripture necessarily to make the case. 10:14 They are using reasoning, they are using philosophy 10:17 and hoping for those avenues 10:19 to open where they will be able to share 10:22 about the Lord and the gospel 10:24 and they have had many opportunities to do that 10:26 to say, that's why ultimately we are valuable 10:28 because we are made in the image of the Lord. 10:31 Their approach has been phenomenal. 10:33 I've watched mind after, mind after mind be changed 10:36 as people were presented with simple truth 10:40 about the unborn being alive, about the unborn being human, 10:44 about the way that the unborn develops 10:45 and watched just people just fully consider their position 10:50 and so many people have said... 10:54 They switched. They have. 10:55 They changed their minds. They really have. 10:56 There is some powerful YouTube videos out there. 10:58 they just, they show you graphically about 11:01 you know, they show the little sperms 11:02 and then the egg and then they come together 11:04 and there's a new cell and it just walks you 11:07 right through the miracle of life and it's amazing. 11:11 Well, what has been so critical about their approach 11:14 is they base it on the idea, when Jesus was in the temple, 11:19 He listened and He asked questions 11:21 and that's really how they walk through 11:22 every conversation. 11:24 They ask questions and they are listening 11:25 and they are listening really for 11:26 what the other person is really trying to say. 11:29 Because if someone is angry and talking about this, 11:32 where is that anger coming from, why is someone angry. 11:34 If someone is confused, what are they confused about. 11:36 They really do want to affect, 11:38 it's not just a matter of being right 11:40 or saying I brought someone over to my side 11:42 but genuinely reaching the deep, 11:44 yeah, the core to transform thinking. 11:47 Yeah, just like "the light goes on in their eyes." 11:49 Absolutely. 11:50 In the last segment we talked about the Biblical evidence. 11:53 Now let's zero in on, 11:55 you mentioned the scientific evidence. 11:57 The kind of information 11:58 that they present to the college students. 12:00 Yes. What is that evidence? 12:01 Yes, well, um, as Greg Coco with a different organization 12:05 --and he said 12:06 before we can kill any living thing, 12:08 we have to first determine what it is. 12:11 He gives a wonderful example 12:13 of say you are washing dishes at your kitchen sink 12:16 and your son or daughter comes up behind you 12:19 so your back is to them and you just hear, 12:21 "Hey dad can I kill this?" 12:23 What's the first question 12:24 that's gonna come out of your mouth? 12:25 Kill what? 12:27 Exactly, what are you trying to kill? 12:28 What is it? 12:30 Is it a stink bag or we have 12:31 a number of spiders in our house, 12:32 we live in the country so right, what is it? 12:34 Yeah, what is it? 12:35 It's not our cat or our dog that they are talking about. 12:36 Right, because if it's a bug, 12:38 you're going to have one question, 12:39 if it's the cat, you're going to have one response. 12:42 Yeah, my daughter wants to take the bugs outside. 12:44 She doesn't even want to kill them in the house. 12:45 She's just such a compassionate little girl. 12:47 Right, but the cat you would say, 12:49 "Wait a minute honey, we can't kill the cat." 12:51 If your brother had his 12:52 or if your son had his little sister, 12:54 you would stage an intervention of course 12:56 we can't get rid of your little sister 12:57 and so it's very critical that we first determine what it is 13:02 that we're trying to take the life of 13:04 before we actually take its life. 13:07 The definition of life scientifically 13:12 involves three characteristics, 13:14 irritability, metabolism and cellular reproduction. 13:17 Irritability is reaction to stimuli, 13:19 reaction to stimuli, 13:21 metabolism is converting food to energy 13:24 and cellular reproduction is growth. 13:28 The unborn exhibits all three characteristics. 13:31 Steve Wagner, 13:33 who is the director of Justice For All now, 13:37 has created this wonderful tool 13:40 which is in essence a 10 seconds 13:43 human defense for the humanity of the unborn. 13:46 I think it's very helpful 13:47 and I think this is sort of my version of it. 13:49 If the unborn is growing, it must be alive. 13:53 If the unborn has human parents, 13:55 it must be human 13:56 and living humans or human beings like you and me 14:01 are valuable, aren't they? 14:03 And they make other human beings. 14:05 And they make other human beings 14:06 because the law of biogenesis tells us that like begets like. 14:11 So dogs give birth to dogs, cats give birth to cats, 14:15 humans give birth to humans. 14:17 Sound pretty simple. It is simple. 14:18 It's really simple, isn't it? 14:20 It is, faith like a child, it's that simple. 14:22 The Lord has laid it out very simply 14:24 and it's really amazing 14:26 when you get into dialogue with people 14:28 and if someone makes the claim, 14:31 the unborn isn't really human, but what is it? 14:34 Yeah, then what is it? Right. 14:35 Because we've come from humans. 14:37 Scientifically we know. 14:38 We can't reproduce some thing that isn't after our own kind. 14:42 We're going to reproduce after our own kind 14:44 and so from the very beginning, the unborn is alive. 14:48 Scientifically it meets 14:50 those characteristics of things that are alive 14:53 and it is a human being that is alive in the womb. 14:56 Isn't it? 14:57 I've read recently in illustration like 14:59 think of seeds. 15:00 If you think of a wheat seed, 15:01 it's a wheat seed, it's in the ground, 15:03 then it starts to grow. 15:04 It's not up above the ground yet. 15:06 It's not you know, analogous to baby 15:08 coming out of the body 15:09 but it's still under the ground but it's growing 15:11 and at what ever stage of development, 15:13 it's still a little wheat plant. 15:16 It's a wheat plant and then once it breaks ground 15:18 and then it comes up 15:19 and you got the full eventually the full 15:22 you know, group of wheat seeds 15:24 but it's a wheat plant all the way through. 15:27 Yes. 15:28 To me, it's simple, it makes sense. 15:30 Yes. I get it. 15:32 Yes, well, and so what we know then 15:35 is we know the unborn is human, we know the unborn is alive 15:39 and from conception, from the very beginning 15:42 you have a unique genetically distinct human organism 15:45 that is coming to existence. 15:47 That is separate from, I mean, she is... 15:48 Separate from the mother. 15:49 It's dependent upon the mother but it is separate. 15:51 It's not the mother. 15:53 Yes, there's this Scott Klusendorf, 15:55 for the Life Training Institute 15:56 uses the example of parts versus holes. 16:00 You have a human sperm and a human ovum egg 16:04 that come together and they unite. 16:06 But when they fertilize, when they come together 16:08 they cease to exist separately 16:11 and they form a new unique 16:13 genetically distinct human organism. 16:14 There is no more human sperm, there is no more human egg. 16:17 It's simply a zygote, which incidentally means 16:21 to come together. 16:22 It is the coming together 16:25 and that is what the unborn is from the very beginning. 16:29 You, from the moment of conception, 16:32 every bit of genetic information 16:35 that you have sitting here now, you had then. 16:40 In essence you possessed everything genetically 16:43 way back then. 16:45 You simply were at a different stage of development. 16:48 So you are saying, but it was still, 16:50 that it was me back then in my mother Sandy Wohlberg, 16:53 that's my mom's name. 16:54 She's still alive. 16:56 She lives in Palm Springs, California. 16:57 Then it was still me. Yes. 16:59 But you know, I've been growing for quite a bit 17:01 and then I've got grey hair and things are changing. 17:05 You'll find that out later but you get the point, 17:08 I mean, you know the point. 17:09 The point is that when they first, 17:11 when the sperm and the egg came together, 17:13 it was me even though I was undeveloped. 17:16 Yes, yes, yes and nothing is added to you 17:20 to make you any more human. 17:22 There's this uh, if you think of Richard Stith, 17:28 who was a philosopher who came up 17:29 with this example of the Polaroid picture. 17:34 Do you remember Polaroid pictures, 17:37 you take them, and snap the picture 17:39 and the photo pops out? 17:40 Yes, I remember that. Now we just use the phones. 17:42 Right, yes, yes, but actually, have been-- 17:44 I think they've become popular again. 17:47 The idea of Polaroid picture 17:48 and they were bigger back in the 80s maybe. 17:51 Um, when you take a Polaroid picture, 17:53 you take it and it pops out but when you look at it, 17:56 it's pretty grey and smudgy. 17:58 You don't actually see the photo that you just took. 18:00 You have to give it time to develop. 18:03 But the fact that you can't see everything 18:05 that is there doesn't mean that photo isn't there. 18:08 Nothing is added to the picture 18:11 to make it anymore of a picture. 18:13 It simply needs time so that your eyes 18:15 and my eyes can actually see it. 18:17 And the development, the development process. 18:19 Now didn't you mention you had some, 18:20 just some quick facts about conception 18:23 and then the first week 18:25 and then at what point the heart starts beating 18:26 and some of those little intricate details 18:28 which are significant? 18:30 Yes, yes. 18:33 When the unborn, the child in utero is three weeks, 18:37 you have a heart beat and at that point the child 18:41 is the size of a grain of rice. 18:44 Wow, at six weeks, the child has brain waves, 18:49 at seven weeks, they are eye lids, 18:52 toes are forming, the nose is distinct. 18:55 The baby is kicking and swimming. 18:57 At eight weeks, every organ is in place 19:00 and bones begin to replace cartilage. 19:04 Finger prints begin to form 19:06 and at eight weeks the child begins to hear. 19:09 At ten weeks, teeth begin to form, 19:11 finger nails develop, 19:12 the child can turn his head and frown. 19:15 The baby can hiccup. Wow. 19:17 Yes, at weeks 10 and 11, the baby can breathe 19:20 amniotic fluid and can urinate. 19:23 At week 11, the baby can grasp objects in its hand. 19:27 The baby has skeletal structure. 19:29 So it hands little hands by that time to grab something. 19:32 Well, long before that but it can actually grab 19:34 onto things at week 11. 19:37 It has skeletal structure and nerves in circulation. 19:41 At week 12, so it's about three months, 19:44 all the parts, the baby has all the parts 19:46 that are necessary to experience pain 19:48 including nerves, spinal cord 19:50 and the vocal cords are complete. 19:53 The baby can suck its thumb. 19:54 Wow, so when John the Baptist was in Elizabeth 19:58 and Elizabeth met Mary as the Bible says 20:01 in book of Luke that the babe leaped in her womb 20:05 and I keep thinking of that last little part 20:07 that says for joy. 20:09 So there's joy, there's emotion going on 20:12 and he you know that child, it was really, 20:13 it was John in there, just little John. 20:16 Yes, yes, yeah. 20:18 At fourteen weeks, the heart pumps 20:20 several cords of blood through the body a day. 20:22 At 15 weeks, the baby has adult taste buds, 20:27 bone marrow at, into the 16th week, 20:29 month four, bone marrows beginning to form, 20:31 the heart is pumping 25 cords of blood a day. 20:34 At week 17, the baby can dream, REM sleep. 20:37 At week 19 babies can routinely be saved 20:41 from 21 to 22 weeks after fertilization. 20:44 At week 20, 20:47 babies can recognize their mothers' voices. 20:52 In the fifth and sixth month, 20:54 the baby will practice breathing 20:56 by inhaling amniotic fluid into its lungs. 20:59 It can grasp the umbilical cord, 21:01 mothers can normally feel all the kicking and movements. 21:05 In month seven and eight, 21:06 the baby can open and close its eyes. 21:08 It's using all four senses, not all four, 21:10 it's using four of its senses. 21:14 He knows the difference between waking and sleeping. 21:16 He can relate to the moods of his mother. 21:18 It's absolutely phenomenal, the stages of development. 21:21 How developed the child is so early on. 21:23 It reminds me of the verse we read previously in Psalm 139 21:27 where David says, "You weld me together in my mother's womb." 21:30 I can't help but tell you a quick story. 21:32 When Seth was born, he came flying out of my wife. 21:35 I was there in the operating room. 21:36 She had a C section 'cause they were some complications 21:38 so the doctor pushed down, the baby came flying out. 21:41 Seth was just screaming and yelling, hollering, 21:44 did I say that right? 21:45 Yelling like crazy and they laid 21:47 this bloody little body right next to me on a table 21:50 and I looked at him and he was screaming 21:51 and I said, Seth, Seth, it's your daddy. 21:55 And as soon as I said that, he stopped crying right away. 21:58 And he put his two little fingers on his lips 22:01 and he went like this. 22:04 And he, 'cause he knew my voice 22:06 and he was looking for daddy. 22:08 And the reason why he knew my voice was 22:09 because I've been talking to him 22:11 before he came out for a long time 22:15 and when he finally came out, it was him 22:17 because he knew my voice and it was him all the way. 22:21 And I'll never forget that. 22:22 I got a little picture of it and... 22:23 Wow, that's powerful. That really is. 22:25 It really changed my life, changed my life 22:28 and I just fell in love with that kid 22:29 and I still love him today. 22:31 Yeah, well, and in talking about 22:32 development in addition to what Stith, 22:37 this idea of Polaroid picture, 22:41 it's important to understand that 22:42 we are not constructed that parts aren't added to us 22:45 to make us any more human 22:47 and that it's not like you are going down 22:50 assembling on like with the car where you add tires and wheels 22:56 and eventually have a human being. 22:57 We literally develop from within ourselves. 22:59 Great illustration. Right, yeah. 23:01 But not mine, Richard Stiths' but fantastic. 23:04 Now something that's really important to understand 23:06 'cause I know we're running out of time, 23:08 is someone might say, okay, I understand that the unborn, 23:12 okay I'll give you that the unborn is human 23:14 but the unborn isn't really a person. 23:16 And Philosopher, Stephen Schwartz 23:19 came up with four really critical distinctions 23:21 that separate or that just distinguish us 23:24 from the unborn, their size, level of development, 23:28 environment and degree of dependency, 23:30 and you can think of the acronyms SLEAD 23:31 to remember them. 23:34 In essence people will say the unborn size is different, 23:37 the level of development is different. 23:38 They are more dependent on the mother, 23:41 the environment is different 23:42 and so they are not really human. 23:45 And if we think about that, 23:46 it's true that the unborn is smaller, 23:48 but can't we think of other human beings 23:51 out here in the world like a new born or a toddler 23:54 who's smaller than a five-year old or a teenager 23:56 but does that make the new born 23:58 less valuable simply because it's smaller. 24:00 You think of level of development, 24:02 it's true that the unborn is less develop 24:04 but it's at the right stage of development 24:06 for where it's supposed to be inside the mother's womb 24:09 and you think about us again, 24:12 a toddler or five-year old is less developed 24:14 so then you are odd but does that mean 24:16 that the toddler is less valuable. 24:19 Or less human. 24:20 Simply because they are less developed, 24:22 the level of development is different. 24:25 In the environment, you made an illustration earlier 24:28 where you move from one room to another 24:30 but you did not lose or gain value based on that movement. 24:35 Just because the unborn goes from inside the womb 24:37 to outside of the womb, 24:38 does that change in the environment 24:40 really dictate the value of that child 24:44 and for the last degree of dependency, 24:46 it's true that the unborn is very dependent 24:49 but you consider how dependent 24:50 a new born is on it's mother 24:53 and we can think of many illustrations 24:58 of where someone out here 24:59 in the real world is very dependant. 25:01 And we are all depended upon God. 25:02 We are very dependent on God. 25:03 If He wasn't beating our hearts 25:05 and you know, we couldn't breathe, 25:06 our brain cells couldn't work and all the electric impulses 25:09 and blood flowing throughout the body, 25:11 we are absolutely dependent upon God 25:14 every moment of our lives in order to live. 25:16 Right, absolutely and so we see then 25:20 that these four differences that 25:21 people commonly refer back to 25:24 when they are talking about the value of the unborn, 25:26 that in actuality, they are not relevant 25:29 in determining moral value that 25:33 we at fertilization at our very beginning, 25:37 we were, what we are, 25:39 we were then what we are now. 25:41 We will simply add... Different stage. 25:43 Different size, different level of development 25:45 in a different environment, 25:46 add a different degree of dependency. 25:48 Right, and it makes perfect sense to me that 25:49 you know, when Seth and Abby came out of my wife, 25:53 you know, one week old let's say, 25:55 they are human, they are valuable, go back, 25:57 three weeks before and they are still them. 26:01 It's still Seth, it's still Abby, 26:02 it's still me, it's still you. 26:04 It just makes perfect sense. 26:05 Right, absolutely and so for us 26:09 it's abut being honest about this idea 26:12 where either take in the life 26:14 of an innocent human being or we're not. 26:16 Again, it can be one, it can be the other 26:18 but it can't be both. 26:20 And so when we are making distinctions saying 26:22 these abortions should be permissible 26:23 or these abortions should not be, 26:27 we really have to come back to that central point. 26:30 I got it, wow, thank you, thank you so much. 26:33 I want to finish this segment, 26:35 this program with a couple of quick versus 26:37 in the Book of Job, 26:39 chapter 8, chapter 10, verse 8 and verse 12. 26:43 Job said to God, "Your hands have made me 26:47 and you have fashioned me an intricate unity, 26:52 you have granted me life." 26:56 "You granted me life." 26:58 And God has given us life ever since the very beginning 27:01 when the conception took place 27:02 and He's been with us all of our lives, 27:04 He's been with us every step of the way 27:06 and He'll continue to be with us. 27:07 And as Antionette mentioned, the big issue 27:10 when it comes to abortion is, is it really talking the life 27:12 of an innocent human being or not? 27:15 And we believe it is but we also believe that 27:18 there is a God in heaven who loves us 27:21 even if we'd done wrong and that His love, 27:23 His forgiveness and His healing power 27:26 is available to you and to me, right now. 27:28 So let's get to know that God 27:30 and may His love change our hearts. 27:34 Dianne Wagner and Antionette Duck show 27:36 a powerful life changing information 27:38 in this 13 Part series, The Abortion Controversy. 27:42 To order this six and half hour of DVD set for $34, 95. 27:47 Call 1.800.782.4253, that's 1.800.782.4253 27:54 or can write to White Horse Media, 27:56 PO Box 1139, Newport, Washington 99156 28:00 or order online at whitehorsemedia.com. |
Revised 2015-08-27