The Prophetic Panorama

Secrets Rapture Fallacies

Three Angels Broadcasting Network

Program transcript



Series Code: TPP

Program Code: TPP000008A

00:11 Well, welcome back, folks.
00:14 Glad you're here.
00:16 Do you think that what we've been studying is important?
00:20 I think it's vitally important that we understand these things
00:23 'cause we are living in the times of fulfillment
00:27 of many of these prophecies that we find in Daniel
00:30 and Revelation.
00:32 The title of our study at this moment
00:34 is Secret Rapture Fallacies.
00:38 But before we see what those fallacies are,
00:41 we want to ask for the Lord's guidance
00:43 and so I invite you to bow your heads as we pray.
00:47 Father in heaven, You have told us in Your Word
00:50 that we should rightly divide the word of truth.
00:54 We want to handle Your Bible with reverend hands.
00:58 We want to see what You want to teach us.
01:00 We don't want to inject into the Bible
01:02 what we wanted to say.
01:04 So we ask, Lord,
01:06 that as we study about certain secret rapture fallacies,
01:11 arguments that are used
01:12 that when we look carefully at them,
01:14 they don't square with scripture
01:16 that you will be with us in our study.
01:18 We pray this in the precious name of Jesus.
01:21 Amen.
01:25 I'd like to share with you the futurist belief
01:28 concerning the second coming of Jesus Christ.
01:32 Futurists believe
01:35 that the second coming of Christ
01:36 will be in two stages.
01:39 One stage will be that He will come
01:42 and those Christians who are ready
01:44 will be rapture to heaven,
01:47 where they will spend a period of seven years,
01:52 seven literal years.
01:54 After spending seven literal years in heaven,
01:58 according to this futurist view,
02:01 Jesus will return to the earth with all of the rapture saints
02:06 and he will set up His kingdom
02:09 here on earth for 1000 years.
02:13 And basically the reason why they believe this way
02:18 is because Jesus made two promises to His people.
02:24 First of all, Jesus made the promise
02:27 that He would take His people to heaven.
02:31 Did He make that promise?
02:33 You know, John 14:1-3,
02:37 "Let not your hearts be troubled.
02:39 You believe in God, believe also in me.
02:42 In my Father's house," where's the Father's house?
02:46 Our Father which art in heaven,
02:50 "in my Father's house are many mansions,
02:51 if it were not so, I would have told you,
02:54 I go to prepare a place for you.
02:56 And if I go to prepare a place for you,
02:59 I will come again and receive you to myself."
03:01 So Jesus promised to take His people to heaven
03:04 at the Second Coming.
03:06 But Jesus also promised
03:10 that the meek will inherit the earth.
03:13 So the question is, how can Jesus fulfill both promises?
03:17 How can He fulfill the promise to take God's people to heaven,
03:21 and at the same time
03:23 to give them the earth as their inheritance?
03:27 Well, those who believe in the rapture,
03:28 they say there's only one way in which God can fulfill,
03:34 Jesus can fulfill those two promises.
03:36 And that is, if He comes
03:39 seven years before His glorious coming
03:42 and He takes His people to heaven
03:45 for seven years that fulfills the first promise.
03:49 And then, after the seven years,
03:53 He brings them back to the earth,
03:55 and then the meek will inherit the earth.
03:58 So they say in order to fulfill those promises,
04:01 there has to be a pre-tribulation rapture.
04:04 Because if there isn't a rapture
04:06 before the Second Coming,
04:07 then if Jesus just comes to the earth
04:09 to stay on the earth,
04:11 He didn't fulfill both promises.
04:13 Seventh-day Adventists have a different view.
04:16 We believe that there's a different way
04:18 in which this can be fulfilled.
04:20 And that is that when Jesus comes a second time,
04:24 there will only be one stage, the glorious Second Coming.
04:28 He will come
04:29 and He will take His people to heaven for a 1000 years.
04:35 And then after the 1000 years,
04:37 He will bring them back to the earth
04:38 and the meek will inherit the earth.
04:41 So you don't have to invent a pre-tribulation rapture
04:45 in order for Jesus to fulfill both promises.
04:48 Jesus fulfills both promises
04:50 by taking His people to heaven for 1000 years.
04:53 And then by bringing them back,
04:56 making a new heavens and a new earth
04:58 and then the meek inherit the earth.
05:00 And I've heard Adventists say,
05:02 "I want to live eternally with Jesus in heaven."
05:05 You're wrong.
05:06 You're not going to live forever with Jesus in heaven.
05:10 You're going to live with Jesus a 1000 years in heaven.
05:14 And then you're going to come back to this earth
05:16 and Jesus is coming back
05:18 and the whole center of the universe
05:20 is coming back here,
05:21 and the meek will inherit the earth.
05:25 Now in our study,
05:26 we are going to look at seven futurist arguments
05:32 in favor of a pre-tribulation rapture.
05:37 And the first argument is based
05:40 on 2 Thessalonians 2:3.
05:45 Before we read verse 3, however,
05:47 I need to give you a little bit of historical background.
05:51 The Apostle Paul wrote in 1 Thessalonians 4
05:54 that Jesus would descend from heaven and then he said,
05:57 "And we who are alive and remain."
06:01 So the Thessalonians got the wrong conception
06:05 that the Apostle Paul was predicting
06:07 that he was going to be alive when Jesus came
06:08 because he says we who are alive and remain.
06:11 So the Thessalonians, they quit working
06:14 and they became fanatical, you know, and so on.
06:17 And so the Apostle Paul felt it necessary
06:19 to write them a 2nd epistle which is 2 Thessalonians.
06:22 And in 2 Thessalonians, he's going to explain to them
06:26 that the coming of Jesus is not imminent.
06:29 In other words, the coming of Jesus in his day
06:31 is not gonna take place real soon.
06:33 Something needs to happen before that transpires.
06:38 So he writes to them a 2nd epistle.
06:40 Now let's read 2 Thessalonians 2:1-2.
06:45 "Now, brethren,
06:47 concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ
06:50 and our gathering together to Him,
06:52 we ask you not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled,
06:57 either by spirit or by letter,
07:00 or by word, or by letter,
07:03 as if from us,
07:05 as though the day of Christ has come."
07:07 The Apostle Paul is saying the day of Christ has not come.
07:10 And then he's gonna go on to say
07:12 that something needs to happen before Jesus comes.
07:17 And that's found in verse 3.
07:19 Let no one deceive you by any means.
07:23 For that day, that is the day of the coming of Jesus
07:26 will not come
07:28 unless the falling away comes first
07:33 and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition.
07:39 Now, you'll notice here that it says
07:40 that Jesus will not come
07:42 until the falling away comes first.
07:46 Now it's interesting to notice
07:49 that futurists such as Hal Lindsey says
07:54 that the expression falling away
07:57 needs to be translated
08:00 the departure or snatching away.
08:04 And he applies that to the rapture of the church.
08:08 In other words, the falling away is not really an apostasy,
08:12 the falling away is simply a snatching away
08:16 or the departure of the saints from the earth
08:19 at the moment of the rapture.
08:21 That's the way that he translates the word
08:25 falling away,
08:27 which is actually one Greek word.
08:29 I checked as many Bible versions as I could find
08:32 to see if it would be proper to translate snatching away
08:37 or the departure of the saints to heaven at the rapture.
08:41 I could find only one version of the Bible, and actually,
08:44 it's not a very well known version, Wuest's version,
08:48 where it is translated to make it fit the Rapture.
08:52 All of the other versions that I read,
08:55 translate this expression falling away,
08:58 not as the departure or the snatching away,
09:03 but they translate it in different ways.
09:06 Let me give you some of those versions.
09:08 The New International Version
09:09 and the English Standard versions translate
09:12 until the rebellion comes first.
09:16 The North American Standard Bible
09:19 has it this way,
09:20 "Let no one in any way deceive you,
09:23 for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first."
09:28 So it translates this not as departure or snatching away,
09:31 but the apostasy comes first,
09:34 and the man of lawlessness
09:35 is revealed the son of perdition.
09:37 The King James Version and the New King James
09:40 translates the falling away.
09:43 The Bible and Basic English translates
09:46 falling away from the faith.
09:48 The Darby Bible interestingly enough,
09:51 you know, Darby was a futurist,
09:53 but the Darby Bible translates the apostasy,
09:57 the Douay-Rheims version,
09:59 which is a Roman Catholic version
10:01 translates not the departure
10:03 or the snatching away but the revolt.
10:06 Jesus cannot come before the revolt takes place.
10:09 The New Century Version translates
10:12 that Jesus cannot come
10:14 until the turning away from God takes place first.
10:18 The New Living Translation translates
10:21 that Jesus cannot come
10:23 until the great rebellion against God takes place.
10:28 And the Wuest translation translates,
10:32 because that day shall not come,
10:34 except the aforementioned
10:35 departure of the church to heaven comes first.
10:39 That is the only version that I found
10:42 that speaks about snatching away
10:44 or the word departure
10:45 referring to the departure of the saints
10:48 from earth to heaven.
10:50 Now, the translation of this verse
10:53 should not be very difficult.
10:56 Because the word that appears in Greek,
10:59 the word that is translated
11:00 departure or revolt or rebellion
11:04 is the Greek word
11:06 apostasia?
11:10 Let me ask you what English word do we get from apostasia?
11:15 Apostasy, folks.
11:17 Jesus cannot come until the apostasy takes place.
11:21 What apostasy
11:24 was the Apostle Paul speaking about?
11:27 He was talking about the apostasy
11:28 of the Roman Catholic Church.
11:30 Jesus could not come until the apostasy.
11:33 It's not un-apostasy.
11:35 It has a definite article
11:37 and tell the apostasy takes place.
11:41 Now, it's interesting this word appears only one other time
11:44 in the New Testament.
11:46 It appears in Acts 21:21.
11:51 The Book of Acts 21:21,
11:54 only one other time does this word apostasia appear
11:59 and notice what it refers to.
12:02 Speaking about the Apostle Paul,
12:05 whom they were always accusing
12:07 of not following what Moses wrote.
12:09 It says, "But they have been informed
12:12 about you, that is Paul,
12:14 that you teach all the Jews who are among the Gentiles
12:18 to forsake Moses."
12:23 That word forsake is the same word apostasia.
12:26 What does that mean
12:28 that they accuse the Apostle Paul,
12:29 that he was teaching people to forsake Moses?
12:32 It means that he was teaching people according to them,
12:35 to apostatize from what Moses wrote
12:39 that they should not follow what Moses says,
12:41 but that they should apostatize from the writings of Moses.
12:46 And so it's properly translated
12:49 that the Apostle Paul according to them,
12:52 he was teaching the Gentiles to forsake Moses
12:55 or to apostatize from Moses sent
12:57 saying that they ought
12:59 not to circumcise their children,
13:01 not to walk according to the customs.
13:04 By the way, the verbal form of this word,
13:08 which is apostanai,
13:11 is used in classical Greek to describe a boat
13:16 that is drifting away from the port,
13:19 because it is not strongly anchored.
13:23 That will be an apostasy from the faith.
13:26 If you are not anchored well in the faith,
13:28 you will drift away.
13:30 So it can be translated
13:31 until the drifting away takes place.
13:35 No way in the world can you say
13:37 that the word departure means the departure of the church
13:40 from earth to heaven at the rapture?
13:43 That is a private interpretation
13:46 of Hal Lindsey among others,
13:50 Tim LaHaye futurist
13:52 who believe in the rapture of the church,
13:54 they are injecting into scripture
13:56 what they believe,
13:58 but it does not fit with the meaning of the word.
14:01 The second point that I want to deal with
14:05 that rapturists use, that futurists use
14:08 to defend their doctrine of a pre-tribulation rapture
14:12 is found in 1 Thessalonians 5:9-10.
14:17 1 Thessalonians 5:9-10.
14:21 Here it says, "For God did not appoint us to wrath."
14:25 Would you agree with that,
14:27 that God is not appointed us to wrath?
14:29 Of course, "God did not appoint us to wrath,
14:33 but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ,
14:37 who died for us that whether we wake or sleep,
14:41 we should live together with Him."
14:43 So God did not appoint us to wrath.
14:46 So what's futurists say
14:48 is that because God's people are not appointed to wrath,
14:52 they cannot be here at the time that God pours out His wrath
14:56 and the seven last plagues,
14:58 because God has not appointed us to wrath.
15:01 So God's people cannot live here
15:03 during the time that God is pouring out His wrath
15:05 in the seven last plagues.
15:08 There's a serious problem with that point of view.
15:11 You say, "Well, what is it?"
15:14 Let me ask you, "Is it true
15:16 that the outpouring of God's wrath
15:18 at the end of time in the seven last plagues
15:21 is without any mixture of mercy?
15:23 Is that true?"
15:24 It most certainly is true.
15:26 It's the full wrath of God without any mixture of mercy.
15:32 Is it possible for God's people to be here during that period
15:36 and not be appointed to wrath?
15:39 Absolutely.
15:41 Let me ask you this.
15:43 Did God rapture out Israel
15:45 when he poured out the 10 plagues upon Egypt
15:50 or were they here?
15:52 They were here.
15:53 But what did God do?
15:55 He shielded His people
15:58 so that the wrath that fell upon the Egyptians
16:01 would not fall upon them.
16:04 Let me ask you,
16:06 did Daniel go through the lions' den experience?
16:11 Yes. Did he suffer the wrath of the king?
16:14 Supposedly the wrath of the king,
16:16 it was the wrath of the princess really.
16:19 But the king did
16:20 what the princes said that he should do.
16:23 The law of the Medes and Persians
16:24 could not be changed.
16:25 So let me ask you,
16:27 "Did Daniel so to speak go through this severe tribulation
16:30 in the den of lions?"
16:32 Yes, but did God protect him?
16:35 Yes, He did.
16:36 How about the three young men?
16:38 Did they go through the fiery furnace?
16:40 Where they in the fiery furnace?
16:42 Absolutely.
16:43 But did Jesus come into the furnace
16:45 and protect them from being destroyed?
16:48 Yes.
16:50 Now, Daniel 12:1
16:54 tells us that at the very end of time,
16:56 when the king of the north
16:58 which is the same as a little horn and the beast
17:00 goes out to kill and destroy many,
17:03 Michael shall stand up,
17:05 that great prince who stands
17:07 watch over the children of his people,
17:09 there will be a time of trouble such as never was.
17:12 But in that time of trouble,
17:14 God will protect His faithful people.
17:17 In other words, it is possible to be on this earth
17:20 during the outpouring of God's wrath
17:22 without suffering God's wrath.
17:25 So just because this verse says,
17:28 God has not appointed us to wrath
17:30 doesn't mean that we can't be present here
17:32 when God pours out His wrath,
17:34 and God protect us
17:36 from the manifestation of His wrath.
17:40 Incidentally, if you go with me to Psalm 91,
17:44 which is known as the tribulation psalm.
17:47 It's the psalm of a time of trouble.
17:49 Notice Psalm 91:7-11,"
17:53 A 1000 may fall at your side
17:57 and 10,000 at your right hand,
18:00 but it shall not come near you.
18:04 Only with your eyes shall you look
18:07 and see the reward of the wicked,
18:10 because you have made the Lord who is my refuge,
18:13 even the Most High, your dwelling place.
18:16 No evil shall befall you,
18:19 nor shall any plague come near your dwelling."
18:23 Is it possible to be here during the plagues,
18:25 and not have the plagues afflict you?
18:28 Absolutely.
18:30 Once again verse 11,
18:32 "For he shall give His angels charge over you
18:36 to keep you in all your ways.
18:39 So just because the text says
18:41 that God has not appointed us to wrath,
18:43 doesn't mean that we can't be here
18:45 during the manifestation of God's wrath,
18:47 and that God is gonna protect us,
18:49 the wrath of the plagues is not gonna fall upon the righteous,
18:52 it's gonna fall upon the wicked,
18:54 but God's people will be present here.
18:57 Notice Isaiah 26:20-21.
19:00 Isaiah 26:20-21.
19:03 This speaks about this time of trouble at the very end
19:06 when God's wrath is being poured out upon the earth.
19:11 It says there in Isaiah 26:20-21,
19:14 God is speaking to His people,
19:15 "Come, my people, enter your chambers,
19:20 and shut your doors behind you, hide yourself,
19:24 as it were for a little moment,
19:26 until the indignation is passed.
19:29 For behold, the Lord comes out of His place
19:31 to punish the inhabitants of the earth
19:33 for their iniquity,
19:35 the earth also will disclose her blood,
19:38 and will no more cover her slain."
19:41 So God says for a little moment,
19:44 "Hide until the indignation is passed."
19:48 And Ellen White wrote
19:51 that not one of God's people will perish
19:55 during the final time of trouble
19:56 after the close of probation.
19:58 The wrath is not meant for God's people.
20:01 The wrath is meant for the wicked.
20:04 But God's people will be here.
20:06 And they shall see as it says in the Psalms,
20:09 "They shall see the reward of the wicked."
20:13 The third argument that is used by those who believe
20:16 in a pre-tribulation rapture is found in Revelation 3:10.
20:22 Revelation 3:10.
20:27 It says there, "Because you have kept My command,"
20:31 he is writing to the churches,
20:33 "because you have kept My command to persevere,
20:37 I also will keep you from the hour of trial
20:43 which shall come upon the whole world,
20:45 to test those who dwell on the earth.
20:50 So what those who believe
20:51 in a future rapture of the church say,
20:54 see very clearly he says here,
20:56 that God will keep His people from the hour of trial.
21:01 And that must mean that God is gonna keep them
21:03 by taking them out of the world.
21:07 Well, fortunately,
21:09 the same verb is used in another key text
21:14 that shows that you can be in the world
21:18 at the time of the tribulation,
21:20 at the time of the test or trial, as it says here,
21:23 and you can be kept in the midst of the trial.
21:26 Notice John 17:15, where the same,
21:30 this very same verb is used.
21:33 John 17:15.
21:35 Of course, this is the great intercessory prayer of Jesus
21:39 in favor of His people.
21:40 It says there in John 17:15,
21:43 "I do not pray
21:45 that you should take them out of the world,
21:51 but that you should," what?
21:53 "Keep them from the evil one."
21:56 Is it possible for God's people to be in the world
21:58 and still be kept by God?
22:01 So is it possible that God's people
22:03 will be kept in the hour of trial,
22:07 in the hour of test and still be on this earth
22:10 or do they have to be taken out of the world to be kept?
22:13 No, they can be kept here because Jesus prayed, He said,
22:18 I'm not praying that you take them out of the world.
22:21 I'm praying that in the world, you will what?
22:24 You will keep them from the evil one.
22:27 Are you understanding?
22:28 And so scripture interpret scripture,
22:32 once again, those who believe in futurism
22:34 are injecting their private interpretations
22:37 into the Holy Scriptures.
22:41 Incidentally, in Galatians 1:3-5,
22:45 Galatians 1:3-5
22:49 even though the specific word is not used,
22:52 the specific verb, the concept is there.
22:55 It says there,
22:56 here the Apostle Paul is writing to the Galatians.
22:59 "Grace to you and peace from God the Father,
23:03 and our Lord Jesus Christ, who gave Himself for our sins,
23:07 that He might deliver us
23:09 from this present evil age."
23:14 Are you understanding what this is saying?
23:16 So why did Jesus get Himself?
23:19 That He could deliver us from this evil present age.
23:22 So what does that mean?
23:23 It means that Jesus actually gave Himself for our sins,
23:28 so that we could be rapture away.
23:31 No, it's so that even though we live on this earth,
23:35 he'll deliver us from this present evil age
23:37 even though we live here.
23:39 He keeps us in the midst of an evil world.
23:44 The next argument that is used, this is number four,
23:48 is found in Luke 21:36.
23:52 Luke 21:36.
23:56 And once again,
23:57 those who believe in a pre-tribulation rapture,
24:00 harp on this particular verse, and they say,
24:02 "This clearly shows
24:04 that God's people are not going to be here,
24:06 because they're going to escape everything
24:08 that's happening on the earth."
24:09 Luke 21:36 says,
24:12 "Watch therefore, and pray always
24:16 that you may be counted worthy to escape all these things."
24:22 Jesus has just described the things
24:23 that are happening immediate before Second Coming.
24:26 So it says, you know, when these things happen,
24:29 Luke 21, is parallel to Matthew 24.
24:32 When you see all of these things happen,
24:35 he says, "Pray
24:37 that you don't have to go through them,
24:38 pray that you're worthy to escape all these things
24:43 that will come to pass
24:44 and to stand before the Son of Man."
24:45 So basically, the argument is that you need to pray
24:48 that the Lord will help you to escape
24:50 this period of tribulation,
24:52 by being rapture away from the world.
24:55 Is that really what the text is saying?
24:57 No, let's read again the verse.
25:00 It says, "Watch therefore,
25:01 and pray always that you may be counted worthy
25:03 to escape all these things that will come to pass,
25:07 and to stand before the Son of Man."
25:11 So the big question is,
25:14 how can you escape the tribulation,
25:16 if you're going to be standing when Jesus comes?
25:19 Are you following me or not?
25:21 Let's go to Revelation 6:16-17.
25:25 Revelation 6:16-17.
25:31 It's speaking about the second coming of Jesus,
25:33 remember the word to stand.
25:36 It says there in Revelation 6:16-17,
25:39 "And the kings of the earth, the great man, the rich men,
25:41 the commanders, the mighty men, every slave and every free man,
25:46 hid themselves in the caves in the rocks of the mountains,
25:49 and said to the mountains and rocks,
25:52 "Fall on us, and hide us from the face of Him
25:55 who sits on the throne,
25:57 and from the wrath of the Lamb."
25:58 Is this describing the second coming of Jesus Christ?
26:03 It most certainly is.
26:04 Is it describing the outpouring of God's wrath?
26:08 Yes, it is.
26:09 And now the question is asked,
26:11 "For the great day of his wrath has come
26:14 and who is able to stand?"
26:20 It would be ridiculous to say
26:21 that unless there were people on the earth to stand.
26:26 Are you following me or not?
26:28 And so when the Apostle Paul says here, actually Luke says,
26:33 and in a moment, I'm gonna read a statement from Paul
26:35 in 1 Thessalonians.
26:37 When Luke says
26:38 that you should be counted worthy
26:39 to escape all these things
26:41 and to stand before the Son of Man.
26:42 It means that you will not be caught up
26:45 in the apostasy you know be caught up
26:47 and be among the unfaithful.
26:50 And that you will be able to stand when Jesus comes
26:53 when he ask, "Who will be able to stand?"
26:56 The Apostle Paul in 1 Thessalonians 5:3,
26:59 speaks of those who will not be able to escape,
27:03 they're the wicked.
27:04 It says, "For when they say, 'peace and safety',
27:08 then sudden destruction comes upon them
27:11 as labor pains upon a pregnant woman,
27:14 and they shall not escape."
27:19 So who are the ones that escaped,
27:20 the ones that are rapture off to heaven?
27:23 No, the ones that are faithful in the midst of the tribulation
27:27 that is described in the context of Luke 21:36.
27:31 Who is not able to stand
27:33 when the wrath of God is manifested on the earth?
27:36 Those who are unfaithful to Jesus Christ,
27:39 but it's not speaking at all
27:41 about a pre tribulation rapture.
27:45 Now, argument number five that is used,
27:48 is found in Revelation 4:1.
27:53 It says, "After these things I looked",
27:55 this is the beginning of the seven seals.
27:57 "After these things I looked,
28:00 and behold a door standing open in heaven.
28:04 And the first voice which I heard
28:05 was like a trumpet speaking with me saying,
28:08 speaking to John, "Come up here.
28:11 And I will show you things
28:13 which must take place after this."
28:17 So John is told God tells John, "Come up here."
28:21 Hal Lindsey and others say
28:24 that this is speaking about the Rapture.
28:26 In other words,
28:28 when John has told come up here,
28:30 that speaking about the rapture of the church to heaven
28:34 before the tribulation,
28:36 and then he says that everything
28:38 in Revelation 4:1,
28:41 from the point that God says to John, "Come up here,"
28:44 he says, "That's the rapture of the church.
28:46 John symbolizes the church," till Revelation 19,
28:51 Jesus sitting on the white horse,
28:52 followed by the armies of heaven,
28:54 He says, "All of that takes place
28:56 after the church is rapture to heaven."
29:01 Now we're gonna see that has serious implications.
29:05 Because if Revelation 4:1
29:09 is speaking about the rapture of the church,
29:11 church is snatched away to heaven
29:14 and everything from Chapter 4 to Chapter 19 is still future.
29:18 After the rapture,
29:20 what happens with the proclamation
29:22 of the three angels' message now?
29:27 It's not for now, if you have that view,
29:31 because it's for the period,
29:33 the three angels' messages will be proclaimed
29:35 after the rapture of the church,
29:36 because Revelation 4:19 describes the events
29:39 that are still future
29:42 and eliminates the reason for the existence
29:45 of the Seventh-day Adventist Church,
29:48 serious stuff.
29:51 Now, it's very interesting.
29:53 You can clearly prove that when John has told,
29:58 "Come up here," it's not referring into the Rapture.
30:01 You say, "How do we know that?"
30:03 Because later on in the Book of Revelation,
30:05 John is on the earth.
30:09 In the three angels' messages
30:10 he says, "I saw an angel come down from heaven."
30:13 Hello.
30:15 In Revelation 18-1, it says,
30:17 "I see a mighty angel coming down from heaven."
30:20 What's he doing on earth? He was rapture in Chapter 4.
30:24 Are you following me or not?
30:26 And in Revelation 10:1-2,
30:28 "He sees an angel coming with from heaven
30:31 with a little book open in his hand."
30:33 Obviously, he's on earth.
30:35 So Revelation 4:1 cannot refer
30:37 to the rapture of the church to heaven,
30:40 because he's seeing things on earth.
30:44 He's on earth, he's seen angels descend from heaven.
30:47 And by the way, when God says to John, "Come up here."
30:52 He's not telling him to come up there physically.
30:58 Prophets were taken away to places
31:04 where they were not at in vision.
31:09 Ellen White, for example, we know this,
31:11 we know how this works,
31:12 because Ellen white went through the experience.
31:14 She spoke of an angel that took her to heaven.
31:19 And she saw the heavenly sanctuary,
31:20 the Holy in the Most Holy Place.
31:23 What does that mean that Ellen White was being ruptured?
31:26 No, it means that she was transported to heaven,
31:29 not physically, but in vision.
31:34 That's why for example, Revelation 17:3 says that,
31:39 "John is caught away
31:41 in the spirit of the wilderness."
31:43 In other words, in his mind,
31:45 he's being transported to another place.
31:48 Although he is physically present,
31:50 where he's at receiving the vision.
31:53 In Revelation 21:9-10,
31:56 an angel comes to John
31:58 and transports him to the holy city.
32:01 But this is happening, not physically,
32:03 this is not a rapture.
32:04 This is simply happening in vision.
32:08 And by the way, the visions were so real,
32:12 that the prophets actually thought
32:13 that they were there although they weren't.
32:18 You know, Ellen White several times.
32:20 When the Lord took her and showed her
32:22 all the wonderful things in heaven,
32:24 she said to the angel, "Don't make me go back."
32:27 Because the vision was so real.
32:28 Let me ask you, have you ever had a dream,
32:30 where it's so real, that you wake up sweating?
32:34 You know, like, for example,
32:36 if you're on a train that can't be stopped
32:40 and you're going and going and going,
32:43 and you're getting to the end of the tracks,
32:45 you know, you are breathing deep
32:47 and you are sweating, even though it's just a dream.
32:52 That's what happened with the prophets.
32:55 The prophets had the same basic experience.
32:58 So this argument where it says, "Come up here,"
33:02 has nothing to do with a pre-tribulation rapture.
33:05 John is simply being caught up to heaven in vision
33:08 like he was in Chapter 17, like he was in Chapter 21,
33:12 like Ellen White was taken away in vision.
33:15 It has nothing to do
33:17 with the rapture of an entire church
33:19 before the tribulation,
33:21 before the glorious coming of Jesus Christ.
33:24 Argument number six
33:27 is found in 1 Thessalonians 3:12-13.
33:31 1 Thessalonians 3:12-13.
33:34 And this sounds pretty plausible.
33:35 You know, when you're superficial
33:37 in your study of Scripture, things might make sense.
33:40 But when you study them more carefully,
33:42 they don't make a lot of sense.
33:44 1 Thessalonians 3:12-13, The Apostle Paul wrote,
33:49 "And I, the Lord, make you increase
33:52 and abound in love to one another,
33:54 and to all just as we do to you,
33:57 so that he may establish your hearts
34:00 blameless in holiness before our God and Father
34:05 at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ
34:08 with all His saints."
34:11 Are you seeing the problem in that verse?
34:14 It's saying that Jesus is gonna come to the earth
34:17 with all His saints,
34:18 and those who believe in the rapture say,
34:19 He cannot come back with them,
34:21 unless He took them to heaven first.
34:24 Are you understanding me?
34:26 So how do we deal with this?
34:27 Where it says that
34:29 that God will retain the hearts of His people
34:33 blameless and holiness, before God and our Father
34:36 at the coming of Jesus with all of His saints.
34:39 Well, perhaps we need to take a look
34:40 at what the word saints means?
34:45 Is that referring to human beings?
34:47 Or is that perhaps another interpretation?
34:50 The Apostle Paul is actually referring back
34:53 to Deuteronomy 33:2.
34:56 Go with me to Deuteronomy, 33:2.
35:01 There's a speaking about God coming to Mount Sinai
35:05 to reveal his law to Israel and God did not come alone.
35:10 I want you to notice who he came with.
35:13 It says in Deuteronomy 33:2,
35:17 "The Lord came from Sinai,
35:20 and dawned on them from Seir,
35:24 He shone forth from Mount Paran
35:27 and he came with 10,000 of saints",
35:32 With whom did God come to Mount Sinai?
35:36 With 10,000 saints.
35:38 So he's bringing from heaven, all of the redeemed
35:41 to reveal his Mount Sinai?
35:44 Of course not.
35:46 Who did he come with?
35:48 Who did he come to Mount Sinai with?
35:50 Who are the saints that he came to Mount Sinai with,
35:52 when he revealed the law?
35:54 The angels.
35:57 So notice once again.
35:59 It says," He shone forth from Mount Paran,
36:02 and he came with 10,000 of saints."
36:04 Remember that 10,000 figure, with 10,000 of saints,
36:09 from His right hand came a what?
36:12 A fiery law for them.
36:14 Is this speaking about the revealing of the law
36:16 at Mount Sinai?
36:17 Was it written in letters of fire?
36:19 Yes, it was.
36:20 So with whom did God come to Mount Sinai
36:23 when He revealed His law?
36:25 With 10,000 of what? Of saints.
36:28 Who were those saints, humans or angels?
36:31 Angels.
36:33 The expression 10,000 refers to angels.
36:37 Notice Revelation 5:11
36:40 and you can also write down Daniel 7:9-10.
36:44 Revelation 5:11, what does 10,000 mean?
36:48 Who are the 10,000 saints
36:51 that God comes to Mount Sinai with?
36:54 It says, "Then I looked and I heard the voice of many angels
36:57 around the throne,
36:59 the living creatures and the elders,
37:00 and the number of them of the angels
37:03 was ten thousand times ten thousand,
37:06 and thousands of thousands.
37:09 So to what does the expression 10,000 refer?
37:13 It refers to the angels.
37:15 And so the question is, when the Apostle Paul says
37:19 that, when Jesus comes,
37:21 He will come with all His saints,
37:26 is that talking about Him coming with human beings
37:29 that have been rapture to heaven?
37:30 No, He's coming with what?
37:32 With the angels.
37:34 By the way, the word saints is really the same word
37:39 that is translated holy in the New Testament.
37:43 So it can be translated with his holy ones.
37:47 Let me ask you, does the Bible describe the angels as holy?
37:53 Not only does the Bible describe them as saints,
37:56 the word saints means holy.
37:58 The Bible says that they are holy.
38:00 Notice Mark 8:38,
38:03 Mark 8:38,
38:08 "For whoever is ashamed of Me," here Jesus is speaking,
38:12 "and My words
38:14 in this adulterous and sinful generation,
38:17 of him the Son of Man also will be ashamed
38:21 when He comes in the glory of His Father
38:24 with the holy angels."
38:30 So who is Jesus bringing back with Him?
38:32 Human beings that have been raptured?
38:34 No, He's coming back
38:36 with all of His angels
38:41 if you allow scripture to interpret itself.
38:45 The seventh and last
38:46 is what's gonna take us the rest of our time,
38:49 a little bit more time.
38:52 Let's go to 1 Thessalonians Chapter 4,
38:56 1 Thessalonians Chapter 4,
38:59 and we'll read verses 13 through 18.
39:03 And in a minute I'm gonna tell you where the problem is.
39:06 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18,
39:11 "But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren,
39:14 concerning those who have fallen asleep,"
39:17 that means those who have died,
39:19 "lest you sorrow as others who have no hope.
39:23 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again,
39:28 even so, God will bring with Him
39:33 those who sleep in Jesus.
39:35 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord,
39:38 that we who are alive
39:40 and remain until the coming of the Lord
39:42 will by no means precede those who are asleep.
39:45 For the Lord Himself
39:46 will descend from heaven with a shout,
39:48 with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God.
39:51 And the dead in Christ will rise first.
39:54 Then we who are alive and remain
39:56 shall be caught up together with them in the clouds
39:59 to meet the Lord in the air,
40:00 and thus we shall always be with the Lord.
40:04 Therefore, comfort one another with these words."
40:08 Now, where is the problem in this passage?
40:13 And it's found in verse 14.
40:16 So let's read verse 14,
40:19 "For if we believe that Jesus died, and rose again,
40:24 even so,"
40:25 now listen carefully, "God will bring with Him,"
40:31 that is with Jesus, "those who sleep in Jesus."
40:36 And so the point is,
40:38 that God cannot bring with Jesus,
40:43 those who slept, unless He took them to heaven first.
40:49 Are you catching the point?
40:51 Because it says here,
40:53 God, even so God will bring with him,
40:57 those who sleep in Jesus,
40:59 and so how can He bring those who slept with Jesus with Him
41:03 if He didn't take them to heaven before that?
41:06 Now, this problem can actually be solved very simply,
41:12 by a careful study of the passage.
41:15 Let's notice the concepts that we find here
41:18 in 1 Thessalonians 4.
41:20 Did you notice that it compares the experience of Jesus
41:24 with the experience of His people?
41:27 Once again, notice,
41:29 let's read verse 13,
41:34 "But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren,
41:36 concerning those who have fallen asleep,
41:37 lest your sorrow as others who have no hope.
41:40 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so."
41:46 What happened with Jesus is being compared
41:49 with what is gonna happen with His people.
41:55 So let's look at what happened to Jesus.
41:58 Did Jesus die?
42:01 Did He sleep?
42:02 Yes.
42:04 Did He resurrect?
42:06 He resurrected?
42:09 Was He then caught up in a cloud?
42:14 Are you with me or not?
42:16 Was He caught up in a cloud?
42:19 Sure.
42:20 Let's read Acts 1:9, Acts 1:9,
42:25 it says, "Now when he had spoken these things,
42:28 while they watched, he was taken up
42:31 and a cloud received him out of their sight."
42:34 So Jesus died, He resurrected
42:38 and 40 days later, he what?
42:43 He's caught up in a cloud
42:46 and where does the cloud take him?
42:49 The cloud takes him to His Father in heaven.
42:54 Notice Revelation 12:5-6,
42:56 you allow the Bible to interpret itself,
42:58 Revelation 12:5-6.
43:01 Speaking about the woman, it says she born a male child
43:03 who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron.
43:06 And her child was what?
43:08 Was caught up to God and His throne.
43:13 So when the cloud catches Jesus up,
43:16 where does the cloud take Jesus?
43:19 The cloud takes Jesus to whom?
43:22 To where the Father is.
43:25 By the way, did Jesus present Himself
43:28 before His Father alone?
43:30 Or did Jesus take the firstfruits
43:32 of the dead with Him?
43:37 You remember when Jesus died, several resurrected with Him.
43:41 Matthew Chapter 27 says
43:43 that many saints who slept came forth from their graves
43:48 when He resurrected from the dead.
43:51 Those individuals when Jesus sent them to heaven,
43:54 Jesus took as a sampling
43:57 of when He's gonna take all of His sleeping children home.
44:02 So I want you to catch the picture here, Jesus died.
44:07 Jesus rose again.
44:10 A cloud of angels came for Jesus.
44:13 Jesus was caught up in the cloud.
44:16 And the cloud took Him with the Father's house,
44:19 with the firstfruits from those who slept.
44:24 Even so will happen with God's people.
44:28 Because the Apostle Paul says, as it happened with Jesus,
44:31 even so it will happen
44:34 with His people at the end of time.
44:35 So let's take a look
44:37 at what happens with God's people.
44:40 Did God's people die,
44:42 those who are in the grave when Jesus comes, did they die?
44:46 Yes, obviously.
44:48 Are they going to resurrect according to this passage?
44:51 They are going to resurrect.
44:54 Is God gonna send some clouds with Jesus to the earth?
44:58 Was the cloud sent to pick up Jesus? Yes.
45:01 Will clouds be sent to pick up the redeemed, those who slept?
45:06 Revelation 1:7 tells us,
45:08 "Behold, he is coming with clouds,
45:11 and every eye will see him, even they who pierced him,
45:15 and all the tribes of the earth will mourn because of him."
45:17 So a cloud is gonna come just like the cloud came for Jesus.
45:22 Are God's people going to be caught up in the cloud?
45:25 We just read it in 1 Thessalonians 4,
45:27 they're gonna be caught up in the cloud.
45:30 Notice Acts Chapter 1, Acts 1:11,
45:34 "This same Jesus,
45:36 who was taken up from you into heaven,
45:39 will so come in like manner,
45:42 as you saw him go to heaven."
45:46 So you'll notice here, in this passage
45:49 that God's people, those at least who die,
45:53 they will sleep, they will resurrect
45:56 a cloud which is the angels will come,
46:00 they will be caught up in the cloud
46:04 and then where will they be taken?
46:08 Where will they be taken?
46:10 They will be taken to heaven.
46:14 So let's review the parallel.
46:17 Jesus died.
46:19 He resurrected.
46:21 A cloud descended for him.
46:23 He was caught up in the cloud.
46:26 And he was taken to the Father's house.
46:29 With the redeemed, we have the same thing.
46:31 The redeemed, died in Christ,
46:35 they will resurrect, a cloud will descend,
46:38 the clouds will descend from heaven.
46:41 1 Thessalonians says
46:42 that they will be caught up in the cloud.
46:45 And then they will be taken to the Father's house
46:47 because Jesus said,
46:48 "In My Father's house are many mansions."
46:51 So is there a parallel between Christ and the redeemed?
46:56 Absolutely.
46:58 Now let's read this text again, verse 14,
47:03 and let's add an interpretation to the text.
47:08 1 Thessalonians 4:14,
47:14 "For if we believe that Jesus died,
47:17 and rose again."
47:20 And we know that after He died and rose again,
47:23 the Father caught Him up in the cloud to heaven, right?
47:28 "Even so", that means in the same way, "God,"
47:33 that is the Father,
47:35 "will bring with Him," will bring with whom?
47:39 "With Jesus,"
47:42 will bring with Jesus where?
47:46 To the earth or to heaven?
47:49 God who is in heaven, will bring with Jesus,
47:53 "those who slept in Jesus."
47:58 So God, what this is saying
48:00 is that God is gonna send the cloud,
48:04 the redeemed will be caught up in the cloud,
48:07 and then God will bring with Jesus, the redeemed where?
48:13 To the Father's house in heaven
48:15 because that's exactly what happened to Jesus.
48:17 Are you following me or not?
48:19 Now, some people say, wait a minute, Pastor.
48:23 Doesn't the Father come at the second coming?
48:25 So how could it say that that God is in heaven,
48:28 and He brings the redeemed with Jesus to heaven,
48:31 those who died and resurrected.
48:33 The fact is that we develop many times theories
48:37 that don't hold any water.
48:39 There's this theory that at the Second Coming,
48:42 Jesus and the Father are coming to this earth,
48:44 the Father is not coming to this earth,
48:45 the Father is gonna stay in heaven.
48:48 And He will bring the redeemed with Jesus to heaven.
48:52 It's not the redeemed coming with Jesus to earth.
48:55 God is bringing Jesus with those who died
48:59 and resurrected and are caught up in the cloud.
49:01 He's bringing them to the Father's house.
49:03 He's bringing all of the redeemed who died
49:06 of which the first redeem that He took at His ascension
49:10 was the sampling.
49:13 The Father's not coming at the Second Coming.
49:15 Let me read you this statement from Spirit of Prophecy,
49:17 then I'll give you a Bible verse.
49:20 This is from Review and Herald, September 21, 1886,
49:24 "The sacrifice of our Savior has made ample provision
49:28 for every repenting, believing soul.
49:31 We are saved because God loves
49:33 the purchase of the blood of Christ
49:35 and not only will He pardon the redeemed sinner,
49:39 or the repentant sinner."
49:41 God's not only gonna pardon the repentant sinner.
49:44 "Not only will He permit him to enter heaven,
49:49 but he, the Father of mercies,
49:53 will wait at the very gates of heaven to welcome us,
49:58 to give us an abundant entrance to the mansions of the blest."
50:03 The Father will be waiting at the gates,
50:06 and He will bring with Jesus,
50:09 those who rest or those who died.
50:10 Are you understanding this verse?
50:12 The verse is clear.
50:14 The emphasis is not on the descent,
50:16 the emphasis is on dying, resurrecting,
50:19 being caught up in the clouds,
50:21 and going to the Father's house.
50:23 So bring with Him doesn't mean
50:25 that God is gonna bring with Him
50:26 the saints from heaven.
50:27 It means that God is gonna bring with Jesus,
50:29 the saints to heaven
50:31 which are the totality of the saints who slept.
50:36 By the way, Acts 3:20, says,
50:39 "God shall send forth Jesus at the Second Coming,"
50:45 He shall send forth Jesus.
50:47 Some people say, "Well, the Bible says
50:49 that Jesus will come in the glory of the Father."
50:51 Of course, because Jesus is the glory of the Father.
50:54 According to Hebrews 1:3,
50:56 "Doesn't say He's coming with the Father,
50:57 it says, He comes in the glory of His Father.
51:00 So we need to be careful about how we interpret scripture.
51:04 Now, let me just
51:08 end this particular study of this argument
51:14 by referring to Revelation Chapter 4.
51:17 And you don't have to go there,
51:19 I want you to just catch the picture.
51:21 If you read the last three pages of Desire of Ages,
51:24 you'll get the complete picture.
51:26 In Revelation Chapter 4,
51:28 God the Father is seen sitting on His throne.
51:32 He is surrounded,
51:33 or in the midst of the throne rather,
51:35 are the cherubim and seraphim.
51:38 They're called the four living creatures.
51:40 Around the throne of the 24 Elders,
51:44 which are the representatives of the worlds
51:46 that never sinned.
51:48 Before the throne are the seven flames of fire,
51:52 which represents the fullness of the Holy Spirit.
51:56 All of these beings in heaven
51:58 are singing a song in honor of God, the Father,
52:02 who is sitting by Himself on the throne.
52:06 And the hymn that they're singing
52:07 is in honor of the Creator, no redemption is mentioned.
52:12 Revelation Chapter 4
52:14 is describing the preparation of the heavenly throne room
52:18 for the return of Jesus with the redeemed
52:20 because He's left heaven and He's come to this earth
52:23 to pick up the redeemed.
52:25 That's the reason why you have all of these beings
52:28 waiting for Jesus to come back.
52:32 Absent from Chapter 4,
52:35 our Jesus, He's not mentioned there,
52:37 and the angelic hosts are not there.
52:40 So you say, "Where are the angels?
52:41 And where is Jesus in Chapter 4?"
52:44 Well, the fact is that they're on their way to heaven.
52:49 And so now, we have the picture in Revelation 5,
52:52 "The Father has sent a cloud, to pick up Jesus
52:56 with those who have died and resurrected.
52:59 Jesus is caught up with His people in the cloud,
53:03 the cloud, bring Jesus to the Father's house in heaven
53:07 with Jesus are all of the redeemed,
53:11 who resurrected when He died."
53:16 And as Jesus is ascending to heaven,
53:20 all the angels that are with Him
53:22 are singing that song of Psalm 24,
53:24 "Lift, open up the gates
53:26 and the King of glory will come in."
53:28 And the sentinel angel say, "Who is this King of glory."
53:34 And the ones that are outside, say,
53:35 "The Lord of hosts, He is the King of glory."
53:37 So you have this song being sung,
53:39 Jesus is ascending with those who died and resurrected.
53:44 When He arrives in the city,
53:47 the gates of the city will open,
53:48 there's an explosion of praise.
53:51 You can read this in the last three pages of Desire of Ages,
53:55 Jesus enters through the gates.
53:58 And when He comes near to His Father,
53:59 He raises His hands and He tells
54:01 all of the heavenly beings to keep silent.
54:05 He goes into the presence of His Father.
54:09 And He presents the firstfruits,
54:12 those who resurrected from the dead
54:13 when He resurrected,
54:15 and He says, "Father, I need to know
54:17 that My sacrifice was sufficient
54:19 to bring all of My people home someday."
54:23 And it's everything is in suspense,
54:24 everything is in silence.
54:28 And then Ellen White describes
54:29 how the Father will embrace His Son.
54:32 And He will say,
54:34 "What You have done is sufficient
54:35 to bring all of Your people home at the Second Coming."
54:39 And then the Father says to all of the heavenly beings,
54:44 "Worship Him and now you can sing,"
54:47 and you have in Revelation Chapter 5,
54:49 that explosion of praise
54:51 in honor of the Lamb who has been slain.
54:55 This story is gonna be repeated again.
55:00 Jesus will leave heaven with the clouds.
55:03 Those who died and resurrected
55:06 when Jesus comes will be caught up in the cloud,
55:08 and the journey to heaven will begin.
55:11 Once again, all the angelic hosts will be with Jesus
55:14 taking all of the redeemed from all ages.
55:18 And as Jesus nears the city, the song will be sung,
55:21 "Open up your gates
55:23 and the King of glory will come in."
55:25 The sentinel angel will say, "Who is this King of glory?"
55:27 The Lord of hosts, He is the King of glory,
55:30 the gates of the city will open wide.
55:32 The Father will be waiting there,
55:35 and Jesus and the saints will enter
55:38 in the midst of rapturous praise.
55:43 Are you catching the picture?
55:46 That's what 1 Thessalonians Chapter 4 is talking about.
55:50 So in conclusion, let's once again read this verse,
55:54 by adding the explanation.
55:57 The Apostle Paul is saying,
55:58 "If we believe that Jesus died, and resurrected,
56:01 then is if we trust in Jesus, in His life,
56:04 and in His death, and His resurrection.
56:07 Even so, in other words, in the same way, as with Jesus,
56:12 God, that is the Father, God the Father,
56:15 will bring with Him,
56:17 will bring with Jesus to the Father's house,
56:21 those who sleep in Jesus.
56:25 So it's not Jesus bringing the saints from heaven
56:29 that He took seven years before in the Rapture.
56:32 It's Jesus coming with the cloud,
56:34 to pick up the saints,
56:36 and bring them to His Father's house.
56:40 And then the redeemed will live with the Father in heaven
56:45 and with Jesus for 1000 years.
56:49 And then after the 1000 years,
56:51 God's people will return to this earth with Jesus.
56:56 And Jesus will make a new heavens and a new earth.
57:00 He will eradicate evil,
57:03 He will eradicate Satan, his angels, and the wicked.
57:07 And He will create a new heavens and a new earth
57:11 in which righteousness dwells.
57:14 Jesus will have fulfilled both promises
57:17 He made to His followers.
57:19 He will have taken His people to His Father's house
57:22 for a 1000 years,
57:24 to reign with Him
57:25 and to perform a work of judgment.
57:28 And He will have also fulfilled the promise
57:31 that the meek will inherit the earth forever and ever.
57:35 You don't have to invent a pre-tribulation rapture
57:39 for Jesus to fulfill both those promises.
57:41 You need to understand
57:42 that we will be in heaven for a 1000 years,
57:45 and then we will come to this earth
57:48 and this will be our abode forever, not only us,
57:51 but God will come down, the city will come down,
57:55 and this will be the capital of the universe.
58:00 I pray to God that in that day, none of us will be missing.


Revised 2019-09-30