Participants: Yvonne Lewis (Host), Dr. Willard Harley
Series Code: UBR
Program Code: UBR000017
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00:01 Have you ever cheated on your spouse...
00:02 Do you think your loved one is cheating on you? 00:06 Well, stay tuned and hear from one of the Nation's most famous 00:10 marriage counselors... find out how to make your 00:13 marriage sizzle... 00:14 My name is Yvonne Lewis and you're watching 00:17 Urban Report... 00:40 Hello and welcome to Urban Report... 00:42 According to a recent Barnett Study 00:45 four out of ten Americans feel that adultery is acceptable 00:49 among Christian... one out of ten... 00:52 over a third of married men will cheat on their wives... 00:56 nearly a quarter of all married women will cheat 00:59 on their husbands... nearly 50 percent of all 01:02 marriages will be impacted by a cheating spouse, 01:05 my guest today is Dr. Willard Harley... 01:09 Dr. Harley is a Licensed Clinical Psychologist, 01:12 Founder and President of Marriage Builders... 01:16 and best-selling author of 18 books on marriage 01:19 that have been translated into 22 languages... 01:22 Dr. Harley hosts a Call-in Radio Program... 01:26 "Marriage Builders" and he is the Creator of 01:29 marriagebuilders. com website... where he offers 01:32 practical solutions to almost any marital problem... 01:36 Welcome to Urban Report Dr. Harley... 01:40 I'm delighted to be with you this afternoon... 01:44 you know... you are such an expert on marriages 01:48 and it's... you've written 18 books about 01:51 marriage... and one thing that I noticed 01:53 when I was reading "His Needs, Her Needs" 01:56 which I just think is just an outstanding book... 01:59 I just want to quote something that you said... 02:01 and I'd like to discuss it with you for a second... 02:05 you said, when you married your wife Joyce... 02:08 you determined to be totally committed to her 02:10 and to your marriage... you remained true to your vows 02:14 for 48 years of marriage but it's not because 02:17 you're some kind of iron-willed paragon of virtue 02:21 it's because you and Joyce have been realistic 02:24 about meeting each other's important emotional needs 02:27 and you've never let someone outside of your marriage 02:31 meet those needs... I think that is such a critical 02:34 point... let's talk about "needs" 02:37 the needs that people have in marriage 02:40 what's different about what he needs 02:43 from what... she needs... His Needs and Her Needs... 02:47 Yeah... let me start out by just saying 02:49 that when I first got into marriage counseling... 02:52 I understood that men and women were different... 02:55 but I didn't understand that those differences made the 03:01 emotional needs so different... I assumed that Joyce would have 03:07 essentially the same emotional needs that I had... 03:09 and that I would have the same as she had... 03:14 and it was only after I did quite a bit of research 03:18 on what it was that made women happy in marriage 03:22 and what it was that made men happy in marriage, 03:25 that I came to the realization that our emotional needs 03:29 are just so vastly different from each other 03:32 that I began to understand why it is... 03:35 that husbands and wives had such a difficult time 03:38 getting along with each other they're not at all alike... 03:41 now, that may sound like something obvious... 03:45 men and women are not at all alike... 03:47 but when I was writing this book people were trying to argue 03:53 that men and women were alike, Hmmm... 03:56 especially in the '70s... before this book was written... 03:59 I wrote it in 1985... and even in 1985, 04:05 people were trying say, "Don't say that men and women 04:08 are different... or that they have different emotional needs 04:10 because we want men and women to be equal... " 04:13 Hmmm... well... I'm all in favor 04:15 of men and women being equal... but men and women 04:18 aren't the same... they are two entirely 04:21 different issues... so, in order to make a marriage 04:24 in order to make a marriage great... 04:28 from my perspective 04:29 as a marriage counselor... you really have to understand 04:33 the person you're married to... and say to that person 04:36 "Tell me what I can do to make you happy... " 04:38 Ah... And chances are... 04:39 it's not going to be the same thing 04:42 that would make you happy. Very interesting... 04:45 so, you found then... that women have 04:47 a kind of hierarchy of needs and men have a different set... 04:52 what's a woman's number one need? 04:55 Generally speaking, I would say there are two 04:59 that kind of come together... they are... affection 05:02 and what I call "Intimate Conversation" 05:05 to some extent... the two can't be separated... 05:08 but they are different emotional needs... 05:11 "Affection" of course is symbols of care... 05:15 a woman wants to know... that a man is going to be there 05:18 for her when she needs him... that she can feel secure 05:22 in the knowledge that he is a caring person 05:26 toward her... intimate conversation 05:29 is the expression of the things that are important to you 05:33 the things that are personal... and women want to be able 05:37 to talk to a man about the things that are 05:40 on their mind... things that they're doing... 05:42 things that they've done... things that they're planning... 05:45 and if you do that... in a marriage... 05:49 you end up bonding with that woman... 05:53 that has this emotional need... so as a man... I'm saying this 05:58 if I can figure out... what Joyce needs 06:03 as far as affection is concerned 06:04 and if I can figure out what she needs as far as 06:08 intimate conversation is concerned 06:10 and I become an expert at doing both of those things... 06:13 she will be in love with me, I will make her 06:18 a person who is so attracted to me... 06:22 that she will feel passion toward me... 06:25 now, I've told a lot of men... I said, "It's just that simple" 06:29 you don't have to do a whole lot more than that... 06:32 I'm an engineer in spirit and so I say, 06:36 "What's the easiest way for a man to get a woman 06:41 to fall in love with him... to be happy?" 06:44 to me... I'm not interested 06:46 in all the different ways of doing it... 06:47 I want to know the easiest way of doing it... 06:50 and so I'm saying that "This is it... 06:53 this is the easiest way to get a woman 06:56 to fall in love with you... express your affection for her 07:00 and be able to talk with her intimately... 07:02 and those two needs... 07:04 we talk about 5 needs... but technically... 07:07 if you can meet those two needs 07:09 chances are... she'll fall in love with you... 07:11 Now that is so interesting, you know... 07:12 because well I'm single but... I can think back 07:16 on my married life... and, you know, 07:19 if your husband comes in and just picks up the paper 07:22 and you say, "How're you doing how was your day?" 07:24 and you just get a... "Oh, it was okay... " 07:27 but you don't get that depth of conversation 07:30 that depth... that emotional investment 07:34 you can feel... 07:35 an emptiness there... 07:37 Yeah... and so, that's really 07:39 interesting... so, affection... and intimate conversation... 07:43 those are the two main things 07:45 that if a guy is watching today 07:47 and he feels somewhat disconnected from his wife... 07:50 or his girlfriend that he's marrying or whatever... 07:53 if he wants to really win her heart... 07:57 those are the two primary things that he needs to really 08:01 zero in on... affection and intimate conversation 08:04 Yeah... "I care about you and I will be there for you 08:09 when you need me and I will be able to talk with you 08:14 when you want to talk with me" 08:16 that kind of a thing is what bonds a woman to a man, 08:21 and when the man says, 08:23 "I'm sorry... I don't have time to talk with you" 08:26 or if he says, "I'm just not the affectionate type" 08:29 he can forget about 08:30 having a passionate relationship with his wife 08:34 or any other woman for that matter... 08:36 Hmmm... okay... okay... so now... 08:38 you've hit on something else... what then... if a woman 08:43 really wants her husband to really be in love with her... 08:47 what should she do... what are his main needs? 08:50 Well, there again... there are two... 08:52 but these are very different... one is sexual fulfillment 08:56 and that should be no surprise to anybody... 08:58 men just generally want to make love... 09:03 they want to have a sexual relationship in life... 09:06 and they have chosen a woman who they are particularly 09:09 attracted to... and if that woman 09:12 is a willing participant... in his sexual need... 09:18 generally speaking... he is pretty happy... 09:20 there's another need though that I put a lot of emphasis on 09:24 and that is "recreational companionship" 09:26 she needs to be his leisure partner 09:30 when he is resting... and he is relaxing... 09:34 and he is enjoying himself, 09:35 and he is not pushing himself to accomplish something, 09:39 he wants her to be with him, to enjoy his time... 09:44 apart from his work... Hmmm... 09:47 think about dating... what did you do when you dated? 09:50 When you dated... a man was affectionate 09:55 a man was conversant... 09:57 and a woman... she was his recreational companion 10:02 there was also, of course, a great deal of sexual attraction 10:07 that he had... toward her... those things come together 10:11 in a very fulfilling date... and from my perspective, 10:15 if you don't continue doing that after you're married, 10:18 you're going to lose the passion you had... 10:20 that brought you into your marriage in the first place... 10:22 now, of course, and I need to clear this up... 10:25 because we're a Christian Network... 10:26 we're not saying that you should obtain 10:28 sexual fulfillment prior to marriage... 10:30 Right... I'm just saying that there is the hope... smile 10:33 Yvonne: you're talking about attraction... 10:35 I just want to make sure because you know... 10:37 we get e-mails and all that stuff... 10:39 so I just want to make sure... let's just make sure 10:42 that our viewers know... you're not saying that 10:44 for sexual fulfillment... should take place prior to marriage 10:49 he's talking about the attraction though... 10:51 the attraction that's there that got you to marry 10:53 the person that you married... 10:55 once you're married... then the sexual fulfillment 10:58 really is to take place 11:00 and is to continue... it's to begin... 11:04 we don't want it to continue, we want it to begin 11:08 after marriage... so I just want to make sure 11:11 we got that straight... Dr. Will... 11:14 Yep... I agree... 11:16 So, then... you should be able to have fun... 11:19 with your spouse, 11:21 that is really what you're saying, 11:23 when you're husband's not working... 11:25 you should be able to hang out, have fun... 11:27 do fun things together... and enjoy each other's company. 11:31 Is that what you're saying? 11:32 Yeah... a recreational relationship 11:35 and a sexual relationship 11:37 to a husband... is romance... Ah... 11:40 if you ask a man, 11:42 "Tell me what a romantic experience would be... " 11:45 I often use the illustration of watching football on television 11:52 and making love... during half time... 11:54 that is a romantic experience for a husband... 11:58 Yvonne is laughing... 12:00 for a wife... it's walking on the beach on a moonlit night 12:05 holding hands... 12:07 hugging and kissing... 12:09 and talking to each other, about the things 12:12 that are important to each other that's romance... 12:14 it's a very different vision of romance... 12:17 so, when you date as a married couple... 12:19 you should do... all four of those things 12:22 that way... both spouses get their emotional needs met... 12:26 That is so interesting... so, let's talk a little bit 12:30 about the "Love Bank" 12:31 because you mentioned this 12:33 in the book... and it's a very important concept 12:36 what is the "Love Bank" 12:38 and what is it's significance in a relationship? 12:41 Well, it's the way I helped couples understand 12:45 how to keep their marriage romantic... 12:51 and how they could keep the love 12:53 that they had for each other, and I used, as an illustration, 12:57 something I made up... which I call the "Love Bank" 13:01 which tells couples that they affect each other 13:04 in everything that they do... they are either making deposits 13:09 or they're making withdrawals throughout the day... 13:12 if they're meeting each other's emotional needs 13:15 they're making gigantic deposits 13:17 and if you make enough deposits, you break through 13:21 what I call the "Romantic Love Threshold" 13:23 and if you break through that threshold... 13:25 you are "in love" it's an experience 13:29 that Joyce and I have had now for 49 years... 13:32 we're celebrating our 50th wedding anniversary 13:34 this year... we have never had a month... 13:38 through our entire life... 13:40 that we have not been passionately 13:42 in love with each other... Oh, that's wonderful! 13:44 How is that possible? 13:45 It is that we have met 13:47 met each other's emotional needs 13:49 throughout that entire fifty years that we've been 13:52 married... and we've been able to keep 13:54 our "Love Bank" accounts above that 13:55 "Romantic Love Threshold" 13:56 Wow! that is so incredible... because a lot of people 14:02 can't make it past the 3- year or 5-year mark 14:05 and here you guys are at fifty... almost... 14:08 how many years did you say? 14:10 Fifty years this year... Fifty years! that's incredible! 14:14 But you can understand why a person would fail... 14:18 I mean, the question is, 14:20 "Why can't they keep their love alive?" 14:22 the answer is... "They are failing to meet 14:24 each other's important emotional needs... " 14:27 and all you have to do is ask them... 14:28 "How are you doing... 14:30 when it comes to affection?" 14:31 "How are you doing... when it comes to 14:33 intimate conversation?" 14:34 "How are you doing... when it comes to sexual fulfillment?" 14:37 "How are you doing when it comes to 14:38 'Recreational Companionship'?" and they'll tell you 14:40 we have lost our connection in those areas... 14:45 "We've become so busy... we don't have time anymore 14:48 to meet those emotional needs... " 14:49 And you know what, Dr. Will, 14:51 I think that that is the key word... 14:53 the operative word right there is "connection"... 14:56 because so many times... people lose their connection 14:59 and it's so hard to re-connect, because they begin to build 15:03 relationships outside of the marriage... 15:07 to meet those needs... that the marriage isn't meeting 15:10 and that's how... "affairs" get started... 15:12 Let's talk a little bit about affairs... 15:14 How does an affair start? 15:16 An affair generally starts as a friendship... 15:19 an affair starts innocently... affairs often start in Church... 15:25 on our Radio Show today... 15:26 Joyce and I talked about a couple... 15:29 where the wife had fallen in love 15:32 with somebody that she knew in the Choir 15:35 and that's a very common thing the question is, 15:38 "How is that possible?" Well, if you understand 15:41 what makes "Love Bank" deposits affection, intimate conversation 15:47 that's what this fellow was doing... 15:49 he was meeting her needs for affection 15:52 and intimate conversation because she was talking about 15:55 the problems she was having in life 15:56 he showed a lot of care, he showed a lot of interest 15:59 in her... and one day she woke up 16:01 and says... you know... "I'm in love with this man... " 16:03 Hmmm... you see... so here is the point 16:06 and this is very, very important not only do you have to meet 16:11 each other's important emotional needs in marriage... 16:13 but you have to protect your "Love Bank" 16:16 from outside intruders... Hmmm... 16:19 by that... I mean... don't let anyone else 16:22 meet those emotional needs or you'll end up 16:25 falling in love with the wrong person 16:27 Wow! so in her case... she should not 16:29 have been talking to him about her personal problems... 16:32 she should not have had affection with him... 16:36 she should not have let him 16:37 make so many deposits 16:39 that she eventually would fall in love with him... 16:42 so there are two parts to this, 16:44 Number one is... you got to make the deposits in your marriage, 16:46 Number two is... don't let anybody else make those deposits 16:50 That is so critical and I think 16:53 now with the internet and e-mail 16:55 people begin to e-mail each other 16:58 and then they begin to... again... they're making those 17:01 deposits through e-mail... and then they have 17:04 conversations... and it just blows up... 17:07 I remember a situation where there was a pastor 17:12 who was very, very... his marriage was just... 17:16 he really had a solid marriage, and from what I understand 17:21 he would not... if he had an attractive woman 17:25 in his congregation, if she e-mailed him once 17:28 he would return it if it was about 17:30 something that had to do with the Church... 17:33 but if it looked as though that was becoming a pattern, 17:38 he'd cut it right off... and I think that 17:40 we have to put those boundaries around our marriages... 17:44 to protect them... otherwise, 17:46 you're just really vulnerable and Satan knows how to 17:50 starve you out at home, and then send somebody 17:54 on the side... that is going to meet those needs 17:57 so we really have to set up boundaries... 18:00 around our marriages... and so... 18:04 let's talk a little bit about reconnecting... 18:07 where people have been so disconnected 18:11 that they are no longer... 18:12 they no longer love each other they feel like... 18:15 "You know what... I don't love my spouse anymore... 18:18 we're just not connecting... we don't have anything in common 18:23 I was really in love when I got married... 18:25 and now I really just don't want to be bothered at all... " 18:27 what are the first steps that you can suggest 18:31 to reconnect after that disconnection has taken place? 18:35 One of the things that you have to understand 18:38 about romantic love is that God has given us 18:42 a special boost when we're in love... 18:45 that we don't have when we're not in love... 18:47 and the boost is... we instinctively want to meet 18:53 emotional needs that will keep us in love... 18:57 so, a woman in love, is instinctively willing to make 19:03 love to her husband... she's instinctively willing 19:06 to join him in recreational activities... 19:09 a man in love is instinctively affectionate 19:12 and instinctively interested in talking to her intimately, 19:17 when they're not in love, you lose those instincts... 19:21 so the question is... from the Engineer... that I am 19:25 "How do you re-create love?" 19:28 What you do is... you prime the pump... 19:30 the husband becomes an affectionate husband... 19:34 he does what it takes to be affectionate with his wife, 19:37 he talks to her... intimately... he shows interest 19:41 in the issues and the topics that are important to her... 19:45 she makes love to him, 19:47 she joins him in recreational activities 19:50 they start making a lot of "Love Bank" deposits 19:54 not because they're in love, but because they are 19:57 doing the things that create romantic love 20:00 and one day they wake up and say, 20:02 "We are in love with each other" and then everything takes off 20:07 everything becomes automatic. 20:09 Wow, see... I think that offers such hope to people... 20:15 to couples that are just struggling... 20:18 I mean... there are so many... 20:20 I know a very few happy marriages, 20:25 and that is such a sad thing especially, you know, 20:28 among Christians... we're supposed to have such joy 20:30 and all of that... but yet... you know... 20:33 I know so many people who are so miserable in their marriages 20:36 and it's so unfortunate... and I think what you're doing... 20:40 is such a blessing... in fact... I'd like to put up 20:43 a copy of a picture of your book in just a second 20:46 so that our viewers can see a copy of "His Needs, Her Needs" 20:51 you've sold over 2 million copies of this book, 20:56 so it must say something... it must really speak 21:01 of the need... and it has to offer 21:05 great solutions 21:06 you know... you want to build an affair-proof marriage 21:10 and that's been your goal... tell us, if you would, 21:14 give us a situation where a marriage was in deep, 21:19 deep trouble and then they were able to apply 21:21 these principles and turn it around... 21:23 To be honest with you, we have 21:27 hundreds of thousands of these cases... 21:32 we had somebody on the radio 21:35 just the other day that called in 21:37 that said that they wanted to 21:40 express their success story... we have so many people 21:43 that call in... that are having real problems 21:46 and we had them on for the whole hour 21:49 and she mentioned the fact that she had fallen in love 21:54 with somebody that she had known in high school 21:57 she went to a high school reunion... 21:58 fell back in love with a former boyfriend... 22:03 that she had met... and she started seeing that person 22:08 even though he was living 750 miles away 22:11 she would make trips to where he lived, 22:14 they got together... they started having an affair 22:17 and her husband... 22:20 who found out about it... 22:22 he discovered the affair, went to our website 22:25 and started reading the material that we have there... 22:28 and got a copy of "His Needs, Her Needs" 22:32 and started applying the principles that we present 22:36 we also have another book that I've written 22:39 "Surviving an Affair" he went through the exact 22:43 procedure that we recommend it wasn't more than 22:46 four months later... that his wife came to him 22:50 and said, she's now willing to 22:53 work on the marriage, to give up her relationship 22:56 with the other man, she went through the process 22:58 of what we call, "Going through the Fog" 23:01 where she was willing to give up her family 23:04 she was willing to give up her faith, 23:06 she was willing to give up everything 23:08 to be with this person she was in love with, 23:10 and the effort of her husband helped her turn the corner 23:15 the things that he did, convinced her 23:19 that in the final analysis, he cared more about her 23:22 than anybody else, and she was willing to give him 23:25 a chance... she made the comment 23:28 during the Program... that she talked to her 23:30 12-year-old daughter recently... 23:33 and the daughter looked at her and said... 23:35 "How could you have done this to me... 23:37 how could you have done this to me?" 23:39 and she said, "In all honesty... 23:41 I didn't think I was doing it to her 23:44 I thought I was just making a decision 23:47 that was good for me... " Hmmm... 23:49 "but I am reminded now 23:52 of how incredibly destructive that could have been... 23:56 if I had gone with this other person 23:58 I would have ruined the lives of my children, 24:01 I would have destroyed my husband 24:04 and in the final analysis, I would have ruined myself... " 24:07 Yes... "and it was such an important 24:10 change that took place in my life... 24:12 that I... from now on... " and now she is an advocate of 24:17 "How to get through this mess" that... as you mentioned... 24:21 fifty percent of all marriages experience... 24:23 Wow, that is such a deep thing, I think that people 24:29 that are involved in affairs, don't realize 24:32 how incredibly selfish it is... because it all focuses 24:36 they focus on themselves... and what they need... 24:39 and not really looking at how it destroys the entire family 24:44 And they try to imagine that everybody will turn out okay... 24:49 Yes... yes... they try to think their children 24:52 will be fine... their husband will find somebody 24:54 I mean, it isn't going to be that much of a disaster... 24:57 but all you have to do is talk to a few people 24:59 that have been through it and you realize that 25:02 it is, in fact, one of the worst experiences 25:04 that anybody could possibly have in life... 25:07 and it is something that is important 25:09 enough... to avoid... that the precautions 25:12 that we recommend are absolutely essential... 25:15 you meet each other's important emotional needs in marriage, 25:18 and you guard yourself so that somebody else 25:22 doesn't end up meeting them for you... 25:24 that is a critical piece... 25:27 you make sure... 25:29 those two things... you make sure that you meet 25:31 your spouse's needs... and you make sure 25:34 that you guard... you safe-guard that marriage 25:37 you put up a wall around that marriage 25:40 to protect it... from intrusion... 25:43 Dr. Harley, I can't believe that our time is up... 25:46 you have been such an incredible guest 25:49 I'm going to get you to commit now 25:51 to coming back again sometime... 25:53 in front of all the viewers I'm going to get you to 25:57 commit... I'm putting you on the spot... 25:59 I will do that... I'd be delighted... 26:01 Thank you so much 26:03 and give my regards to Joyce as well... 26:05 I will... 26:06 Dr. Harley gave us some great information today... didn't he? 26:12 I hope and pray that you'll be able to 26:14 take that information and apply it to your relationship 26:17 his website again is... www. marriagebuilders. com 26:23 go to his website... check it out 26:25 and you can get some really practical advice from him... 26:29 In the Ten Commandments, God tells us 26:32 not to commit adultery... this is really a form of 26:35 protection for us... so many people are involved 26:39 in the breakup of a marriage, there's always... always... 26:43 a consequence to disobedience, if you're in an affair now 26:47 I pray that you will turn away from it 26:50 before you and your family are destroyed... 26:52 you can make your marriage come back to life 26:55 as you've seen today... and God will give you 26:58 the help that you need to do so... 27:01 you can re-connect with your spouse... 27:03 and make that marriage sizzle again... 27:05 you can ask God to help you and to bring you 27:09 to that place of connection, that place where 27:13 you can be one again... God has a perfect plan for you 27:18 and he wants that marriage to work... 27:20 because the Word says that God hates divorce... 27:23 but He will bring you through... 27:27 Love is an action word it's not just a feeling 27:32 many times... we don't even have the feeling anymore... 27:36 but we can do something 27:38 we can act in a loving way... 27:40 and actually... when you act lovingly, 27:44 you can actually re-kindle love, 27:46 again... love is in the details so do something sweet 27:50 for the one you love, do something kind 27:52 even if you're not really feeling it... 27:54 well, we've come to the end of another Program... 27:57 thanks for watching... 27:59 it just wouldn't be the same without you... |
Revised 2015-06-05