Participants: Yvonne Lewis (Host), Dr. Ira Lake
Series Code: UBR
Program Code: UBR000168A
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00:01 Are you messed up and you don't even know it?
00:04 Well stay tuned to meet a man whose life was messed up 00:07 and now he helps others to find their way. 00:10 My name is Yvonne Lewis 00:12 and you're watching Urban Report. 00:38 Hello and welcome to Urban Report. 00:40 My guest today is Dr. Ira Lake, 00:42 one of the Nation's leaders in Traumatic Childhood Recovery 00:46 and a victim himself of childhood trauma. 00:48 He's an Author, Counselor and a Seventh-day Adventist Minister. 00:52 Welcome to Urban Report Dr. Lake. 00:55 Thank you so much. 00:56 It's so good to have you, may I call you Dr. Ira? 00:58 You can call me Ira. 00:59 That's all right... I can call you Dr. Ira and that way 01:03 I'm acknowledging your title and it's not as formal, right, 01:07 so, you have written a book and let's hold the book up 01:14 and we'll put it up there on the screen too. 01:17 "Messed Up and Don't Even Know it: 01:20 The Journey from Childhood Trauma to Healing. " 01:23 What led you to write this book? 01:26 Well, as a Counselor, 01:30 I had been running into a lot of people, 01:32 couples, individuals, who, 01:34 when we got down to helping them, 01:37 we could trace it back to their childhood, 01:41 and the things they experienced and I realized that, I, myself, 01:47 was a victim of childhood trauma, 01:49 and I wanted to help people 01:51 understand that they are not alone 01:53 that the help could be given, 01:56 and that they could overcome it and find healing. 01:59 That is such an important factor 02:02 to know that you're not alone, 02:04 if you're going through something 02:06 and there's someone else that can help you through 02:10 give you the tools that you need to come through it, 02:13 let's find out a little bit about your childhood 02:16 what kind of traumatic episode 02:19 did you have to deal with growing up? 02:22 Well, first, I was raised in a Christian home, 02:26 Seventh-day Adventist Christian home, 02:30 it was quite common for me to be awakened 02:33 in the middle of the night with arguments between my parents 02:37 or seeing violent acts perpetrated by my parents 02:43 on each other and then, as I got older, 02:46 after my mother and father divorced, 02:50 my mother, basically, tortured me, 02:54 she took out her frustration, her abuse, 02:58 her childhood stuff... it came out on me. 03:02 So, she literally tortured you? 03:05 That's the word I'm using. 03:07 What would she do? 03:09 Well, if she thought I was not telling the truth, 03:12 she would take a hot knife 03:14 or put a butter knife on the stove and heat it 03:16 and then she would put it on my tongue. 03:19 She'd pick up anything within reach 03:21 and she would hit me with it or slam me against a wall 03:26 or make me undress 03:28 and I would be paraded throughout the house, naked, 03:31 in front of my siblings, or whoever was in the house, 03:35 stitches in my head, 03:38 I was so ashamed as a boy growing up 03:40 and as a young man, when I played sports, 03:43 I didn't even want to go to the locker room 03:45 to change because of all the scars on my arms and back 03:49 and legs and... I called it torture. 03:53 And where was your dad, 03:55 where was your father in all of this, 03:57 after they divorced, 03:58 did you still have a relationship with him? 03:59 Actually, my father got custody of us, 04:03 that was unheard of in the '60s, unheard of... 04:06 he got custody and then we saw my mother on the weekends. 04:10 He knew about the torture? 04:12 You know, I like to think he knew 04:18 but he never said anything, 04:19 I mean, how can you go to school with scars 04:21 or with bruises and not notice, so, yeah, I thought he knew 04:28 and I was mad at him for a while 04:29 because he never stood up and protected me 04:32 and I learned from an early age 04:35 and most childhood trauma victims learn, early on, 04:38 that there is no help 04:40 you're going to be by yourself. 04:42 You're going to be isolated, and that's a misconception 04:47 because there is help, 04:48 all I had to do was talk to somebody... a teacher... 04:51 I was presenting a program recently, 04:55 and my first grade teacher came to me and she said to me, 04:59 as well as... with another lady who was there, 05:02 she said, "We knew what was going on in your home," 05:04 they were church members in the church, 05:07 "but we just didn't know what to do" 05:11 and this happens quite frequently 05:15 and it happens more and more 05:17 and we are just now starting to talk about it 05:20 in the church. 05:22 So, there were people who knew 05:25 that you were being abused 05:27 but there was nothing done to protect you 05:30 and I guess... because they went to church with your mom, 05:36 to have been a part of removing you from that home, 05:40 maybe they didn't want to deal with that, 05:43 I don't know, I mean, but that sounds like... 05:45 you must have felt so vulnerable and just unprotected. 05:51 Who do you trust? Who do you tell? 05:55 And if you did tell, 05:57 would they do something about it? 05:59 When people... 06:01 we don't really talk about it 06:03 because we don't really want to be associated with 06:06 this kind of behavior in our churches. 06:08 We talk so much about the spiritual and 06:11 we try to put on these fronts that we are great, 06:13 but we can be beasts... so cruel. 06:19 And this is part of the whole... this is a sin problem 06:23 versus a denominational issue, 06:27 this is a sin... because it transcends 06:29 denominations, you know, 06:31 we know it's in every denomination, unfortunately, 06:33 because it's a sin problem and a mental health issue, 06:36 so, here you were, as a child, 06:41 coming up in that environment, your parents divorced 06:44 and you go with your dad, 06:46 what was life like with your dad? 06:48 Babysitter to babysitter, my dad was a full-time teacher 06:54 in Chicago Public School System 06:56 and then at night he worked 06:58 full time at the main post office in Chicago, 07:00 so he worked 16 hours a day 07:03 44 plus years on each of the jobs, 07:07 he wasn't around, he had to provide for us. 07:11 My dad was a great guy, I love him, 07:14 I modeled myself after him, he was my role model, 07:18 but he abandoned me, he never stood up 07:20 but I know he was trying to provide... but... 07:24 So, essentially, you lost your mom, 07:30 because your parents divorced 07:33 and she had been physically abusive to you 07:37 and you also didn't have your dad there, 07:40 how many siblings did you have? 07:43 I have five siblings, two older, two younger, 07:47 I'm right in the middle. 07:48 Okay, and were they caring for you, 07:51 did you have any support, 07:53 were they also abused by your mom? 07:55 They were also being abused as well. 07:57 Nobody... my younger sister... 08:00 she would... as we would come home 08:03 there would be this... feeling in your stomach 08:07 like something was going to happen, 08:08 butterflies, upset stomach, 08:10 as soon as we would get into the house, 08:12 she would just break out and start crying, 08:14 just uncontrollable fits of crying 08:16 because we were all scared, 08:18 we didn't know who was going to show up... 08:21 in the form of my mother, 08:22 because she could be so funny and gregarious... 08:26 gregarious and then... she could be a monster. 08:29 And you didn't know who was going to open that door. 08:32 You open the door and you walk in 08:34 and you go, "Okay, which way do we have today?" 08:38 Wow! it's so appalling that so many of our children 08:43 many more than we care to acknowledge, 08:46 so many are going through something like that, 08:49 where there is abuse in the home, 08:51 and what do you do? 08:53 And we're going to come to that in a bit, 08:55 what do you do if you see that there is abuse in the home? 09:00 Because you and your siblings were just so vulnerable 09:04 and there was nobody there, 09:06 and your dad was working, he was trying to provide, 09:08 but he was working so you had no one... 09:11 no adult really to plug into for emotional nurturing 09:18 so, how did that affect your relationships later on in life? 09:23 Well, I can talk about it now, after the fact, 09:26 but I didn't know it then, 09:28 I am, by nature, a very distrustful person. 09:32 I am wary of people and yet when you see me 09:37 and interact with me, I'm outgoing, I like to laugh, 09:40 but I'm naturally wary of people 09:43 because I don't know if you're going to hurt me. 09:46 So I grew up through life with my guard up... 09:49 emotionally walled off, 09:52 didn't want you to get in too close 09:55 because if you did, you had the potential to hurt me 09:58 so I just do like everybody else, 10:02 I try to suppress what I was feeling, 10:05 and I kept myself busy, 10:07 so busy... so that I didn't have time to think about it, 10:11 and I didn't want to be alone 10:13 because the silence would just get at me, 10:16 so I stayed busy, and that's how I survived 10:19 my teenage years until I went off to college 10:23 and when I went to Oakwood College at 17, 10:26 that was liberation, oh my goodness! 10:30 I could eat what I wanted, I could go where I wanted, 10:33 and I was like... this was heaven. 10:35 Laughing... 10:38 Yeah, for sure, for sure, 10:40 how did your upbringing 10:42 impact your relationship with your peers, 10:46 were you... were you outgoing as a teenager 10:50 or did you become more outgoing later? 10:54 Well, I was outgoing as a teenager, 10:57 people liked to be around me, 11:00 I'm always laughing and having fun 11:02 but they never knew what was going on inside 11:04 and that's the way I kept it 11:05 and so people were attracted to me 11:08 in high school, I played a lot of sports, 11:11 Captains of a lot of the teams, 11:13 I had my own choir in high school, 11:15 and we would travel all over to the various churches 11:18 and people thought that I was this ideal guy 11:21 and say, "I want to be like Ira" 11:23 they didn't know that I was like... 11:24 "Man! this is hell, I can't wait to get older, 11:27 I'm getting out of here, 11:28 because nobody is going to protect me, 11:31 I got to protect myself" 11:32 and when I went to college, I went home one time after that 11:37 and that was only for a couple of days 11:39 I never came home again. 11:41 My! my! that must have been so lonely. 11:46 Oh it was, but guess what? I could protect myself. 11:51 Yes, yes, yes, so... is that what... in retrospect, 11:56 is that, you think, 11:58 what led you to become this helper of other people 12:04 who have gone through similar... 12:06 similar circumstances in life? 12:08 Do you think that that's what led you to want to do it 12:12 or were you feeling just kind of... 12:17 this concern and empathy for people, 12:21 what do you think led you into the work that you're doing 12:24 and let's talk about the work that you do. 12:26 Well, I believe, from a clinical point of view 12:28 that children learn empathy 12:30 and concern from others in their childhoods, 12:32 now whether I learned it there or then... I don't know... 12:36 all I know is that I've had this desire all of my life 12:40 to want to help people, 12:42 my first choice in life was not to be a Pastor, 12:45 it was to be a Social Worker and that's all I talked about 12:49 high school... "Are we going to help people?" 12:51 And it wasn't for a particular thing 12:53 but I just wanted to help people 12:55 just to be in a position to kind of provide 12:57 resources and things for them 13:00 but as I got to my Junior year in high school, 13:04 I felt God calling me to ministry, 13:06 so I didn't put the Social Worker on the back burner, 13:10 I went to Oakwood and did a double major in both, 13:14 my father said, 13:15 "Hey listen, you may not get called to ministry 13:18 so you got to have a back-up plan" 13:20 Laughter... 13:22 But actually when I left Oakwood, 13:24 I didn't get a call to Ministry right away, 13:26 I was a Social Worker in Arizona for about four years 13:30 before God opened up the door for me 13:33 to go into full-time pastoral ministry. 13:35 So, you have that dual concentration 13:38 of Theology and Psychology which is tremendous 13:44 because you can help give Spiritual tools 13:46 and you can help with the psychological things too, 13:51 so that is really... what a blessing! 13:53 What a blessing! So in your... 13:56 you got married after college, 13:59 how did your past affect your marriage? 14:03 It was rough and tough for me to let her in 14:08 because, first of all, my in-laws... my ex-in-laws 14:13 they didn't like me, they didn't trust me, 14:16 and so, right away, my guard was up, 14:18 and I remember being married and my wife would go out... 14:24 my then-wife would go out to be with her family 14:27 and I had to stay by... or stay by myself, 14:30 I was not allowed to socialize and be around them 14:33 so, I went through most of my then-marriage with my guard up 14:39 because I knew her family didn't like me, 14:42 it was just a matter of time, 14:44 they were always whispering in her ear, 14:46 and it could have been my perception 14:49 that they were always tearing me down, 14:52 so, I just... either absorbed myself in my work 14:57 and I did not allow her to get close to me. 15:01 Hmmm... the inability to really attach... 15:06 that just kind of generalized 15:09 into all of your close relationships? 15:12 You just never got too close, 15:14 you never let anybody get too close? 15:16 All of them... Hmmm... hmmm... 15:17 And I didn't learn this until I sat on a Counselor's chair 15:20 for about seven years 15:22 and I realized that I had inadvertently been sabotaging 15:25 every relationship I've been in. 15:27 As soon as they got close to me, 15:29 I'd make up some reason why we shouldn't be together 15:32 or why I shouldn't be your friend. 15:34 And that's what trauma does to you 15:37 it distorts your perception of people, of events, of things, 15:43 you think that people are... 15:44 every person could be a potential threat to you 15:47 every glance, every look, every misconception 15:51 that you take... out of a word... 15:53 you take it and go... man! they tried to hurt me... 15:55 and so you go through life scared to open up, 15:58 scared to talk, scared to get close to somebody, 16:01 because they are potential threats to you. 16:05 Hmmm... hmmm... and it's understandable 16:08 that that would be the reaction, 16:10 it's kind of a normal coping strategy 16:14 because when you open up, you get hurt, 16:17 so it's a defense mechanism 16:19 that you want to just keep people at bay 16:21 because you could really hurt me. 16:23 Yes, yes... 16:24 And so you learned this 16:25 when you went into counseling yourself. 16:28 Let's talk a bit about trauma and how it manifests... 16:33 I just wrote an article recently for the 3ABN World Magazine 16:40 about PTSD, 16:42 and how it's affecting our inner-city children 16:46 more than we realize, 16:47 we think of soldiers and veterans with PTSD 16:51 but it sounds to me like... what you had 16:55 was a mild... or... I don't know... you tell me... 16:59 form of that because the inability to trust, 17:03 the fear, you know, flashbacks, things that happen 17:07 these are so common in the inner city. 17:11 Thirty percent... it's speculated that 30 percent 17:14 of inner-city adolescents have either mild to severe PTSD 17:19 and nobody is treating it, 17:21 that's one of the reasons I wanted to have you on 17:24 to talk about trauma and its effects on children 17:28 and adults... later in their relationships. 17:33 So, with you, when you began to treat people 17:39 that had had similar traumas, 17:42 did a bell... kind of ring in your head, 17:44 like, "Wait a minute, this is... 17:46 you're reacting this way in this situation 17:49 and I kind of did that too," 17:50 did you react that way, how did you react? 17:53 I'm so glad you said that, you know, 17:56 I'm sitting there, 17:57 I'm working with a client or a couple 18:00 and they were telling me things 18:02 and it would sound so much like what I had experienced 18:05 and yet, I never took it for myself 18:08 I was great at helping other people, 18:11 but when it came to myself, please... 18:14 I'm okay... 18:17 Hmmm... hmm... hmm... hmm... so you weren't seeing it. 18:19 No, it wasn't until... toward the end, 18:24 when I'm working with a couple, 18:27 both of them had been through some very abusive relationships 18:32 in the past, they're sitting there 18:34 and the guy is actually telling my story, 18:36 and I said to myself, 18:40 "Oh my God! man! I'm messed up" 18:42 that's what I said to myself, 18:43 I'm trying to help them but I'm saying, 18:46 "Man, you're crazy," 18:48 and I said, "Man, I've got to get some help 18:50 because Man! I'm not sleeping, 18:53 I'm stressed eating, 18:54 I'm not letting anybody get close to me 18:57 I'm unhappy, I'm perpetually unhappy, 18:59 and that's not who I am," 19:01 and I met a wonderful lady, 67-years-old, White lady, 19:07 she broke me down in about four sessions, 19:11 and she said to me, I'm fast forwarding it 19:15 at the end... after about seven years, 19:18 she said, "You're ready, you're ready," 19:21 and sitting there, I said, 19:24 "Now I know what God wants me to do" 19:26 He called me to Ministry but it isn't necessarily... 19:30 it didn't... first of all, necessarily mean 19:32 it had to be paid ministry, 19:33 so I'm in ministry when I was a Social Worker, 19:35 then I got into pastoral ministry 19:38 and most of my ministry then was... 19:40 I was working with couples and clients 19:42 I realized that God had given me a gift of discernment 19:46 and wisdom that I could use in the Counseling 19:49 and I was doing more counseling than I was doing preaching. 19:52 And a friend of mine said, "Man, you're gifted in this area 19:55 you should expand it and work on it" 19:58 and I went back to school 19:59 and I began it, and I saw something 20:01 and I'm going to go back to your point, 20:03 when we talk about trauma, 20:04 we have to also talk about community violence, 20:09 that's a part of the trauma. Dr. Yvonne: Absolutely. 20:11 Our inner-cities... the drugs, the violence, 20:14 the gangs, the shooting, we see it, 20:17 we become insensitive to it but it affects us 20:21 and I make a statement, 20:23 I believe that unresolved trauma... 20:26 childhood trauma... can come back 20:28 and it will plague every facet of your life, 20:31 professionally, your relationships, 20:34 if you don't deal with it, 20:36 it will just keep showing up again and again, 20:39 so you asked me, You said, 20:41 "Well, how can you tell if a person has been traumatized?" 20:45 They like to isolate, 20:48 they have problems keeping relationships, 20:52 they are irritable, moody, most of them are depressed, 20:58 their productivity, even on their jobs, 21:02 it's bad to poor, 21:04 they're always getting in trouble, 21:05 those are tell-tale signs, 21:07 and I might be going through all of them... 21:09 but just enough to let you know, 21:10 "Hey look, this is something... something is going on here, 21:13 it's wrong and this person needs help. 21:16 That's great information 21:19 because people need to be able to identify 21:23 the symptoms and perhaps see if they have that... 21:28 if they've been traumatized and just didn't even realize it, 21:32 messed up and they don't even know it, right... 21:35 so, what are some of the tools? Like... if there were any... 21:41 besides, of course, going to a Counselor and 21:44 getting help and I think that's important but 21:46 what are some things that you can do, just with yourself 21:51 to kind of help you through... help you to cope with that? 21:55 Some of the things that a person can do 21:59 would be journaling, Hmmm... 22:02 it allows you... it relaxes the body... 22:05 and allows some of the emotional... 22:07 negative emotions to come out and you can put it on paper 22:11 but it also helps you to see that 22:13 maybe the situation is not so bad, 22:15 most of us are visual learners, 22:17 if we could see it on paper, we'll go, 22:20 "Wow! okay it's bad but it's not as bad as I'm thinking" 22:23 aerobic exercise is another way 22:25 to just allow the body to relax, 22:28 it gets out a lot of that pent-up negative emotion, 22:31 a lot of water... 22:33 Hmmm... what is the role of water? 22:36 That's a really good point. 22:38 It flushes the system, it really... 22:40 it cleans out a lot of that... 22:42 I know it sounds funny 22:44 but it really cleans out a lot of the negativity. 22:46 Okay... 22:47 It just flushes it out the body, you sweat it out, 22:49 Ah ha... ah ha... 22:51 so... water... Yes... 22:53 Water and exercise 22:56 because of the endorphins that are generated, 22:59 the body's own "pleasure chemicals" so to speak 23:02 so that's really important and journaling... 23:05 Yes. 23:07 Would you say that 23:10 if a person has been through trauma, 23:14 they perceive life differently? 23:16 How... how does that happen? 23:18 Again, when you are traumatized, it throws off your perception, 23:25 you see life like this... 23:28 everything is distorted, 23:31 so every glance could hold potential for harm 23:35 something you say to me, as innocent as it is, 23:39 I can take it the wrong way because of that distortion 23:42 and I see that as a threat or I am so super sensitive 23:45 you can't tell me things, 23:47 you can't even give me constructive criticism 23:50 because, I'm so sensitive 23:52 that I am going to take it like you're attacking me. 23:54 So, a person can grow up 23:57 and... through life 23:59 and see life through that distorted lens 24:02 and that's not really reality, 24:04 and one of my jobs as a therapist is 24:07 to help them to straighten up the distortion and see it as... 24:11 "No, it's not as bad as you think... it's really... 24:14 you can handle this, you can get through this. " 24:17 Yes... yes... 24:18 We do it by helping them tell their story, 24:21 it's painful but they tell their narrative 24:24 in such a way, in a supportive, 24:26 nurturing environment, 24:28 and each step along the way of the story 24:31 I show them things, 24:32 "Hey look, okay, look, look at this... see... " 24:35 You go, "Wow, it wasn't as bad as I thought!" 24:38 Or... "It was bad, but here's how I can... 24:41 here's what you can do to make it better. " 24:43 Wow! so would you say that 24:48 people that come... 24:52 well... let me go back, there is a misconception 24:56 in the Black Community really... about Counseling... 24:59 tell us your experience with that. 25:03 You are so spot-on, you know, 25:08 historically speaking, 25:09 African Americans have had a number done on them 25:13 in the Medical field, and that includes everything 25:17 so, somebody has told us that going to get help 25:22 be it at a Medical Doctor or even a Therapist or Counselor 25:25 you shouldn't do it 25:27 because they're going to brainwash you 25:28 and so people grow up though life 25:31 in our culture... and they don't want to go to Counseling, 25:35 they don't want to go to a Therapist, 25:37 they don't even want to see a doctor 25:38 until it's almost too late 25:40 and let's blow that out of the water, 25:44 I know God can do a miracle, 25:47 he can just straight out heal you 25:49 but He also gives other people gifts 25:52 and talents and He can use them to bring your healing. 25:55 Absolutely. 25:56 I found my healing in a Counseling Chair. 26:00 Yes, because the Lord worked through that situation 26:04 to heal you. 26:05 Dr. Ira: Yes. 26:07 Briefly, give us an example of someone that came to you 26:11 with an issue and... it's got to be really brief 26:15 and what happened? In one minute. 26:18 I'm actually working with a soldier 26:20 who just came back from Afghanistan, 26:22 he has been experiencing violent episodes, 26:27 night sweats, loss of appetite 26:29 and in two sessions we have just relaxed him 26:33 and taught him how to relax himself, 26:35 his wife was so impressed 26:37 she came to the last counseling session 26:40 and said, "Can you help me too?" 26:43 He's a "work... " he's... ongoing work 26:46 but breakthroughs could happen immediately. 26:49 Yes, that's tremendous and how do you integrate 26:53 the spiritual with the psychological? 26:55 First of all, when they come to me, 26:58 I tell them, "I'm an ordained, trained Pastor 27:01 and I'm also a graduate clinically trained therapist, 27:06 I will use Biblical terms, at times, 27:09 but I'm not here to convert you, 27:11 I'm here to help you and I might pray with you 27:14 but I want you to know 27:15 that I have your best interest at heart 27:18 and if you allow me to work with you, 27:21 I'll make sure that you'll be okay. " 27:23 Wow! that's tremendous, 27:26 I thank you so much for being with us, 27:28 you have been such a blessing 27:30 you've given some great information 27:33 and some great tools that I know 27:35 that you can use by the grace of God. 27:37 There are many among us 27:39 who feel disconnected and detached, 27:42 if you're feeling that way get help, 27:44 contact Dr. Lake or another 27:46 qualified mental health professional 27:48 to give you the tools that you need to move forward. 27:51 Remember, God works through supernatural means 27:55 as well as through His servants to heal and restore. 27:57 Well, we've reached the end of another Program, 28:00 I can't believe our time is up. 28:02 Join us next time because you know what? 28:04 It just wouldn't be the same without you. 28:06 Website for Dr. Ira Lake: imtasik. org |
Revised 2016-03-01