Participants: Yvonne Lewis (Host), Dr. H. Jean Wright
Series Code: UBR
Program Code: UBR000193A
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00:01 Are you spiritually depressed?
00:02 Stressed out with nowhere to turn? 00:05 Well, stay tuned to meet a man 00:07 that can give you some answers. 00:09 My name is Yvonne Lewis 00:10 and you're watching Urban Report. 00:36 Hello, and welcome to Urban Report. 00:38 My guest today is Dr. H. Jean Wright II, 00:42 a highly experienced, professionally trained, 00:45 clinical and forensic psychologist. 00:47 He's currently serving as an administrator 00:49 for the city of Philadelphia and he's an adjunct professor 00:53 for Temple University's Department of Psychology. 00:56 Dr. Wright recently completed his book 00:58 ''Find Strength in your Struggle,'' 01:01 discover the miracle in you, 01:03 which highlights his concept of spiritual depression 01:06 and its impact on the spiritual core 01:09 of individuals from all walks of life. 01:11 Welcome to Urban Report, Dr. Wright. 01:14 Thank you very much. Glad to be here. 01:16 It is so great to have you here. 01:19 I started reading your book and I'm just so impressed 01:23 by how you have combined 01:27 science with the Bible 01:30 and you make the Bible so relevant. 01:33 And that's what I always love that, 01:35 specially in medicine, in psychology 01:39 where it tends to be so secular 01:43 and yet you've been able to bring the Bible 01:47 and I want to talk more about that 01:48 little bit later but first... 01:50 First of all, I'm glad to hear that. 01:51 Yes, yes, yes. 01:53 But I want our viewers to get to know you 01:54 a little bit better. 01:55 Tell us a little bit about your journey 01:57 and some of your struggles 01:58 because this book is a bout struggles. 02:00 Let's hear about your struggles. 02:02 Sure, as I shared with you before, you know, 02:04 I've always been an avid reader 02:07 and student of psychology and philosophy 02:08 and that type of thing, 02:10 but I grew up a preacher's kid, you know... 02:12 A PK. 02:13 Yeah, PK in the Adventist Church 02:15 and sometimes, I think, 02:17 education sometimes may get in the way 02:18 and you think too much 02:20 and you think you know too much. 02:21 And during those early years, in my early teens 02:25 and then later in my later twenties, 02:27 I went to college. 02:28 You know, I started thinking, well, maybe this thing 02:30 doesn't make sense to me, you know, 02:31 so I started questioning the tenets of the Bible 02:35 and the tenets of the Adventist faith 02:37 and thought, you know, 02:38 it doesn't match what I'm seeing in the church. 02:41 Now, was it your associates 02:43 that were influencing you or were you reading things 02:47 that were kind of pulling you away? 02:49 What do you think were the influences 02:50 that were drawing you away? 02:52 I think it was more of my just 02:54 thinking about what I read, 02:55 how I grew up and what I was taught. 02:58 It didn't matched 02:59 what I was seeing in the church. 03:00 And so, you know, I looked and I thought, 03:02 wow, there's a lot of hypocrisy and politics 03:06 and that type of thing, and I thought, 03:08 this doesn't seem like a loving, caring, 03:11 Christian kind of atmosphere. 03:12 I see people talking about it but I also saw variations 03:16 that what they really look like in real life, 03:17 you know, 03:19 people are quick to pray and slow to move. 03:21 You know, you can always have a preaching 03:24 or an evangelism 03:25 but then, do you reach out and help people? 03:26 And so, in my youth I probably over thought it, 03:30 you know, and it probably wasn't as bad as I thought 03:33 and it probably is not as great as I think it is now. 03:36 You know, but at that time, 03:38 I was questioning everything 03:39 and my father who was a minister, 03:42 gave me the freedom to question and to do those things 03:47 and he said, "As long as you're seeking information 03:48 by all means ask the question." 03:50 But if you're simply 03:51 challenging for the sake of being an abstinent, 03:53 you know, then that's something 03:54 then that is probably not appropriate. 03:56 And I use that with him and with the church. 03:58 How important is it for a parent to give that child 04:04 that kind of leeway, you know, 04:05 to question, to ask questions 04:07 to not just accept everything at face value. 04:11 How important is that? 04:12 I think it's very important 04:14 because it allows the child to think on their own, 04:15 to take responsibility for their thoughts. 04:18 If they're shut down and they are taught very early 04:21 that this is something that you cannot share, 04:23 you have to keep your opinions and your thoughts 04:25 and your feelings to yourself, 04:27 then that really breeds in avenue of, 04:30 just kind of like shutting down all the way 04:32 and so something that you do want them to share, 04:34 something you do want them to know, 04:35 they've now learned to keep things from you. 04:38 And I think the other piece to that too 04:40 is critical thinking. 04:42 You learn how to think on your own. 04:44 Yes. 04:46 And it allows you to kind of blossom as a thinker, 04:48 not just accept things at face value. 04:50 And I'm thinking with that, also I would say that 04:52 it allows you to have a feedback loop. 04:56 If you are encouraged to share, then you get feedback 04:59 on where your thoughts are and what you're talking about, 05:02 either by current events, the church, your own family. 05:05 And one think that we were always encouraged to do 05:07 is have conversation at the dinner table. 05:10 You know, which may or may not happen 05:11 as much as it used to, 05:12 I don't know but we all ate together, 05:14 and that was the time to try out your thoughts, 05:16 to share and to share information and get feedback 05:19 from your parents or older siblings. 05:21 And that was the time 05:22 when you really learn social skills. 05:24 And so that was an important time. 05:25 So yeah, I encourage parents to give that opportunity. 05:27 And I think that nowadays, 05:30 everybody sitting at the table texting 05:33 or you're not sitting at the table at all, 05:36 one group each sit one time 05:38 and another part of the family eats in another time 05:41 and so that piece of that dinner time, 05:45 that meal time coming together 05:47 and sharing and learning from each other, 05:49 I think that's really missing a lot in today's society. 05:54 Yeah, and there is nothing wrong with technology, 05:56 and technology certainly has helped us 05:57 in so many ways. 05:59 But we don't want it to replace 06:00 the everyday communication skills 06:03 that one learns 06:04 and the ability to connect with each other, 06:07 you know, and I think that's something that... 06:08 You can do the technology but also make sure 06:10 you connect with the human being. 06:11 Absolutely. Absolutely. 06:14 So you were in college and you began to stray, 06:18 did you leave the church for a while or what did you do? 06:21 I did, I really got to the point, 06:23 where I was like, you know, this is not for me. 06:25 I was always a Christian, I always believed in God, 06:28 always thought that, 06:29 "Yes there is a God of the Universe 06:31 or that Jesus was certainly my Savior, 06:34 someone I believed in." 06:35 I was really more concerned with the box of religion. 06:39 Okay. 06:41 And what that was in the fact that, you know, 06:43 many people were looking at other religions and saying, 06:45 these people are wrong. 06:46 And these people are, you know, if you're not an Adventist 06:48 and you don't know what you're talking about 06:50 and you're going to hell and these other things. 06:52 And it wasn't any one particular person, 06:54 that was just a general message that I was getting 06:56 that the church was somewhat of any leader's organization 07:01 that kind of looked down on the other people. 07:03 And I was going into a field where we uplifted people 07:06 and we did not look at people 07:07 as below other people and that kind of thing. 07:09 And so, again in my youth, I probably overstated it 07:12 and probably just saw some things, 07:14 it did make a lot of sense to me 07:15 and so, yeah, I say, well, 07:17 this is how we're going to treat people. 07:18 And if we're going to treat people 07:19 as if they are not good as other people, 07:21 I don't want a part of that. 07:22 That's kind of where, 07:23 I kind of went in my own direction. 07:25 And for how long were you going on that path? 07:28 I would say, probably all with, 07:30 all through my 20's, definitely. 07:32 And then in my early 30's, 07:34 I kind of started thinking about, 07:35 you know, this is not making sense to me 07:38 what I have traded in was not making sense. 07:42 Unpack that a little bit. 07:43 So, doing my own thing, 07:45 living the way I wanted to live, 07:47 not acknowledging Christ in my life in any kind of way 07:50 other than my own private, 07:52 you know, at home, that kind of thing, 07:53 but not going to church certainly, 07:55 not hanging out with people who went to church. 07:57 Again, remember, I saw them as hypocrites, 08:00 and so I wasn't going to surround myself 08:01 with people who I thought demean the God that I knew 08:05 and treated other people in a way that... 08:07 that's not how God treated people, 08:09 and so I didn't want to surround myself 08:10 with people who I thought were not about the right thing. 08:13 Again, probably over judging and that kind of thing 08:16 and so, yeah, until I got into my 30's 08:19 and then I started really looking at my own experiences 08:22 and thank God for my father, you know, who get me grounded, 08:25 who allowed me to bounce things off him 08:27 even when I didn't agree with him. 08:29 And you know, my mother used to kind of 08:30 put her head up, "Oh, Lord, help him," you know. 08:33 But my father listened 08:35 and he encouraged me to come to his table 08:37 and to talk about things that were controversial, 08:40 things that he did, I didn't agree with, 08:42 you know, I'm a third generation Adventist. 08:43 And so, he knew that I knew better. 08:46 But he wanted me to figure it out. 08:48 And I think, that's the gift that he gave me. 08:50 As he had led, he allowed me to plough through that 08:54 in those dark times and to not disown me, 08:57 or to demean my opinions or to make me, 09:00 or to judge me, I guess it's a good word. 09:02 He didn't judge me. 09:03 He saw something in me that said, 09:05 he's going to be okay. 09:06 I just have to give him some space. 09:07 Yeah, and isn't it interesting, you know, 09:10 that that verse in Proverb about 09:11 "Train up a child in the way she go 09:14 and when he is old, he will not depart from it." 09:16 It doesn't mean that at some point 09:17 you won't kind of go in another direction. 09:21 But you come back, that seed has been planted 09:24 and your Dad knew, the seed has been planted. 09:25 I was the perfect example of that. 09:27 And I even wrote in my book that same text, 09:29 you know, Solomon didn't say when he is old, 09:31 he won't act the fool, because I certainly did. 09:34 All right. 09:35 Didn't say that when she is old, 09:37 you know, she would have been perfect. 09:38 No, he doesn't say that. 09:39 When you put something in a child, it's there. 09:41 Right. 09:42 And it will come back, God promises that. 09:43 Amen. 09:45 And he certainly honored my parents 09:46 by bringing it back in me and I'm so grateful. 09:48 Amen. Amen. 09:49 So after you went away for a bit, 09:53 you found yourself coming back to what you knew to be right. 09:57 Yes. 09:59 Was there some pivotal event that cemented this in you? 10:03 Was there something that happened 10:04 that actually made you say, you know what? 10:07 This is where I am supposed to be. 10:09 I'm never leaving again. Absolutely. 10:11 It was probably a little later in my 30s, 10:14 and I thought it should be but I had a good job, 10:17 I was doing well and had attached myself 10:20 to some political figures 10:21 who had made all kind of promises 10:23 and then things were going to go to the next level 10:26 and I was looking forward to that. 10:27 And as it turned out everything went the opposite, 10:30 and ended up losing a lot material things 10:34 but still things that I've grown accustom to 10:37 and things that I liked and, you know, 10:39 the home that I was living in and things like that 10:43 was difficult to live in the situation 10:44 I was living in. 10:46 And my wife and at that time I had a son, you know, 10:49 a younger son who were not living 10:52 as well as they had been used to 10:54 when things went away. 10:55 I had lost probably about $6000 a month 10:57 of my income had just gone, 10:59 you know and it made me think, well, 11:02 do not depend on men, depend on Dad. 11:05 And so, I made the determination 11:07 then that regardless of where the next steps would be 11:11 you know, I hadn't missed any meals, you know. 11:14 We were behind in bills, no question about it, 11:16 but I hadn't missed a meal, my health was not gone. 11:20 My mind was still sound and so I was able to think 11:23 and say, "You know, Lord, I think what I'm going to do 11:24 from now on is trust You. 11:26 And so if I can just trust You, 11:29 then the rest will take care of itself." 11:31 And so I determined right then, 11:32 I will not lean to my own understanding 11:35 and that kind of turned around. 11:36 Things didn't change immediately, 11:37 but my view of the circumstances changed. 11:40 My circumstances, it took a while, 11:43 but my view of the circumstances 11:45 began to change and I had positive outlook 11:48 and that's when I really kind of finished 11:50 writing the book during that really kind of down period. 11:53 Yes because you were in the midst of your struggle. 11:57 Oh, yeah. 11:59 And you talk about in the book, 12:00 you talk about spiritual depression. 12:03 What is that? 12:04 Well, you know, as a clinician, 12:05 I've treated thousands of people 12:07 with the clinical depression 12:09 and so I do parallels between clinical 12:11 and spiritual depression, 12:12 the symptomatology was quite similar. 12:14 You know, losses in appetite or gain in appetite, 12:17 loss in sleep or gain in sleep, worry, anxiety, 12:21 not feeling like you measure up, you know, 12:22 loss of self esteem and self worth, 12:25 some of those things, 12:26 feeling like you're kind of swimming upstream as it were. 12:29 Other people have described me feeling like you're underwater 12:31 with a buccina or piano on your back, just kind of, 12:34 just suffocating from the weight. 12:36 And so if you're thinking that 12:38 maybe God has turned His back on you. 12:40 If you're thinking that 12:42 maybe I don't deserve any of His favor anyway. 12:45 Then you may be a person that's experiencing 12:48 what I claim and what I found to be spiritual depression. 12:51 Same symptomatology but it may not be coming 12:53 from an original idea 12:57 but a change in your body chemistry 12:59 or anything like that. 13:01 It may just be a loss in faith. 13:02 It may be that you're doubting 13:04 all that you've believed up to that point. 13:06 It may be that you've lost confidence 13:09 in your belief in God. 13:10 And so some people think, 13:11 well, they've lost faith in God. 13:13 No, I think you've lost confidence 13:15 in your belief in God. 13:16 And I think that's pivotal for me 13:18 is that when I was feeling that way, 13:20 I was able to look in the mirror and say, 13:22 "You know what, God hasn't changed, you have." 13:25 And once I came to that realization, 13:27 it was easier for me to go, seek him. 13:31 Not that he ever left me, 13:33 but I turned my back and I assumed, 13:34 you know what, I'm gonna do this on my own 13:37 and maybe I didn't consciously say that 13:39 but I pushed aside 13:41 all the resources, all the people, 13:43 all the things that were there that could have helped me, 13:45 that could have supported me 13:47 and so I had to make that come back on my own 13:48 and so when I think of spiritual depression, 13:51 I think of moving away from people, places and things 13:53 that actually could have helped you. 13:55 So, it's kind of an isolation, it's a spiritual isolation, 14:00 it's not utilizing the resources 14:03 that are available like the Bible 14:05 and that kind of thing. 14:06 And interesting, you know, 14:08 that the parallel of the physical, 14:11 like using your appetite, 14:12 losing your spiritual appetite too, 14:15 where you're really just not that interested 14:17 in spiritual things anymore. 14:18 I was, and even like picking up the Bible, 14:20 I fell the most like, guilty 14:23 like why would I even try this. 14:24 I mean, who am I that He would bring me back 14:27 when I have so long turned my back on Him. 14:30 And so even touching His word was something 14:33 where I felt unworthy, you know. 14:35 And so, those same people that I saw as hypocrites, 14:38 I now saw, what if we go down this path, 14:40 you're just like them. 14:41 You haven't changed your lifestyle, 14:43 you haven't done what you're supposed to do 14:44 and that here, you are praying. 14:46 Here you are, you know, 14:48 slipping on the back pew at church 14:49 one Sabbath you know, 14:51 hoping to get a blessing and then slipping out 14:52 before anybody can greet you. 14:54 And so, it was for me, it was isolation, 14:56 for others it may be other things, 14:58 but yeah, for me, 14:59 I didn't want to be around or connected to 15:01 any of those things that I saw as, 15:04 would have caused my problem in the first place. 15:06 And so it took God to change my mind 15:08 and my thinking. 15:10 And so as I share with you off camera, 15:11 the reason the book took me so long to write 15:13 is because He had a process. 15:15 He needed me to go through. 15:16 So that I can input in the pages 15:18 what He did for me. 15:20 And that makes the book so much more powerful to me 15:24 because you're not just writing it as a theoretician, 15:28 you're writing it as someone who has experienced this. 15:32 And we all go through struggles. 15:35 And we were saying this off camera as well. 15:37 We all go through struggles 15:39 and if you're born gain, the Bible says that 15:43 "All who live godly must suffer persecution." 15:45 So whether you consider yourself saved 15:48 or whether you're not saved or wherever you are, 15:51 you're going to have some struggling. 15:53 Absolutely. 15:54 But how is the lens, 15:56 you mentioned the lens before too. 15:58 The lens that you look through life, 16:03 you look at life through, that's what's important. 16:07 I think so. 16:09 Because your circumstances might not change, 16:12 might not change right away. 16:14 But how are you dealing with those circumstances? 16:17 One of the things that I say 16:18 and I think I may have said it early 16:19 in the introduction somewhere, I talk about it, 16:22 it's paramount for you to understand 16:24 the God that you believe in. 16:26 And if you believe in a tyrant God, 16:28 if you believe in a God that zaps you 16:30 when you do something wrong. 16:32 If you believe in a God 16:33 that has caused all your pain and misery, 16:35 then you won't serve that God. 16:37 But if you believe in a benevolent God, 16:40 if you believe in a God 16:42 that has turned around your whole situation 16:45 and you don't know how it happened. 16:46 He's done things for you that only God could do. 16:49 You couldn't do it, 16:50 another human being couldn't do it. 16:51 If you believe in a loving, caring God, 16:54 then you will serve that God. 16:56 And you will not wait until your situation improves, 16:59 you will not wait until 17:01 the check comes in the mail, okay? 17:03 If you believe in that type of God, 17:06 you will fall on your knees and you will say, 17:08 "Please, let me serve you." 17:10 And that's what happened to me, 17:11 instead of running away from that other God, 17:13 I ran toward the loving God. 17:16 So your mind is so powerful and it's what you believe 17:20 that did takes what you do. 17:22 So beliefs turn into actions or in action... 17:25 Right. In some case may be. 17:27 And so I think, that's really important 17:28 for people to take an inventory of their belief system. 17:32 Not of their religious belief system 17:34 but of their spiritual belief system. 17:36 Do you believe in the God of the Universe? 17:38 Start there. 17:40 The rest will take care of itself. 17:41 But you have to start with that sensitive belief 17:43 and then understand 17:44 what type of God you believe in. 17:47 That is a great point, really. 17:51 Give us if you will some more questions 17:53 in that spiritual inventory? 17:55 Because I think that, 17:57 so many people can confuse the two 18:01 but to really know who you believe in, 18:05 to know that God that you believe in. 18:06 Unpack that little bit for us too. 18:08 Yeah, absolutely. 18:09 And so, you know, a lot of times people think, 18:10 well, if God was real or if He cared, 18:12 He wouldn't allow the things 18:14 that happened in this world to happen. 18:15 So anything negative happens, they blame it on God. 18:19 Not understanding that 18:21 He has allowed for evil to take its course 18:24 because this thing called The Great Controversy is real. 18:27 And there are beings and entities 18:29 and planets around the world who are looking at us to see 18:31 how these things going to turn out. 18:33 And so He can always step in 18:34 and hold back the winds of strife 18:36 as we want Him to. 18:37 And so, people say, well, 18:39 may be He is just trying to teach me a lesson. 18:41 Well, God intentionally put you through pain and longs 18:44 to teach you a lesson. 18:45 Or would He allow you to go through something 18:47 that was already part of a sinful world 18:49 because we live in a sinful world. 18:51 And the sun shines on the just and the unjust, 18:54 and the rain comes 18:56 on the faithful and the unfaithful. 18:57 So it's not a matter of God doing something to you 18:59 or your family or Him allowing something to happen 19:02 just so He can teach you a lesson, no. 19:04 It's about we live in a sinful world 19:06 and although His protection is there, 19:08 He also allows us to experience some things 19:11 that would bring us closer to Him. 19:12 And so as I unpack that for myself, 19:15 I recognize that I was what we call selective memory. 19:19 Only the bad things were attributed to God, okay. 19:23 But as a woman you have an unbalanced ledger here. 19:26 You have an unbalanced ledger. 19:27 You need to go down and look at your ledger. 19:29 You woke up this morning, okay. 19:32 Regardless of whatever my struggles were, 19:34 I always had a good job. 19:35 Never missed a meal. 19:37 Always was able to connect with my friends and family 19:39 and do those things. 19:41 I didn't lose my mind and end up in places 19:42 where I'm helping people. 19:44 Okay. 19:45 If not for the grace of God, 19:46 I'm on the other side of the jail. 19:48 Yeah, yeah. Okay. 19:49 Those things and as I started balancing that, 19:51 I was like, "Wait a minute." 19:52 I attributed too much negative to God. 19:54 And haven't given Him credit for the very positive, 19:58 breath in my lungs, those things. 20:00 Yes, yes. 20:01 And as I started unpacking that for myself, 20:03 the ledger with God went like this. 20:06 Okay. 20:08 And the weight was immeasurable. 20:09 These other things as Paul would say are nothing. 20:12 Compared to the goodness of Jesus. 20:14 And so that's what helped me kind of turn around in my mind 20:16 to say, yes, 20:17 these are the things still happening in the world 20:19 and sometimes they happen to me. 20:21 No doubt about it. 20:22 But He has given me the strength 20:24 to find strength in my struggle. 20:27 And that's when I said to myself, 20:28 "That must be the mission." 20:30 I need to go around and tell others 20:32 how to find strength in their struggle, 20:35 because struggle is inevitable. 20:37 Life happens and when it does, God does His greatest work. 20:41 Yes, yes, because all things 20:43 will end up working together for our good. 20:46 He didn't say all things are going to be good. 20:48 But they're going to work together. 20:49 That's right. That's right. 20:51 So sometimes, we parse those words. 20:52 And we throw them out there, 20:54 but when they became meaningful to me, 20:55 I actually was able to experience it, 20:57 not my father's experience, 20:58 not my grandfather's experience, 21:00 my experience. 21:02 And that's what brought me back to the Lord is my experience. 21:04 Amen, the Lord allowed you to develop a testimony. 21:08 Yes. 21:09 You know, one of my friends said that Lord is like a big, 21:12 great fishermen, you know, 21:14 He just kind of go out, 21:15 and then He just ends up, just reeling you back in. 21:18 I like that, yeah. 21:19 You know, and you develop that testimony 21:21 that no one can take away from you. 21:23 This is your relationship with Jesus. 21:26 It's not your dad, not your granddad, it's yours. 21:29 Nobody can take that away from you. 21:31 So you found strength in your struggle. 21:35 Yes. 21:36 What are some of the steps that you can tell people 21:39 as to how to find strength in the midst of their struggle? 21:42 I think, one of the first things 21:43 that helped me was to just take a step back 21:46 from the chaos and the drama 21:49 that was going on, that I was paying attention to. 21:51 Sometimes that can be distracting. 21:53 Yes. 21:54 There are so many distractions out there. 21:56 They get your attention off of God. 21:57 You know, you're focused on your problems, 21:59 you're focused on lack of resources, 22:01 if that's your case. 22:03 You may be focused on a bad relationship, 22:04 if that's your situation. 22:06 Whatever your situation is, 22:07 you're so focused on that, 22:09 you can't focus on the fact 22:10 that there is a God that can help you, 22:12 so that was the first thing, I had to step back. 22:13 And it's something 22:15 I used to teach my students at Temple. 22:16 If you put blinders on, 22:19 you don't have peripheral vision. 22:20 You can't see to the left or to the right. 22:22 And it may be hard for you to... 22:24 Oh, it's so hard to take those blinders down. 22:26 And so I said, 22:27 if it's scary for you to take your blinders down, 22:29 you know, you can improve your, 22:31 by just stepping back. 22:33 And so until a person is willing 22:35 or courageous enough to pull down their blinders, 22:38 they can improve their vision 22:39 by just stepping back from the problem. 22:42 Just step back. 22:43 That's powerful. 22:45 And eventually, 22:46 we'll teach them how to pull the blinders down. 22:47 But the first thing is step back. 22:49 Step back from the problem. 22:51 Your vision gets better. 22:53 And so that's the first thing I would say, 22:55 and then surround yourself with positive thinking people. 23:00 Okay, and so, I always had a family 23:03 that loved me regardless of whether I was, 23:05 you know, going to church with them or not 23:07 and so hanging around them. 23:09 you know, coming over Sabbath dinner 23:10 even though I may not have gone to church that day. 23:12 They still gave me a plate, you know. 23:15 And so that encouraged me 23:16 and I got to enjoy 23:18 and then we always close the Sabbath with a song, 23:19 and you know, 23:20 my family comes from a long line of singers. 23:23 Oh, yes. 23:24 Your mother was one of the blend rise, 23:26 Eleanor, I love the... 23:27 Jackie. Yeah, Jackie. 23:29 Jackie, I love the blend rise 23:30 So that brought me in. 23:32 You know, because my cousin Brian 23:34 and different ones would be there 23:35 and he nudged me. 23:36 Okay, you know, your baritone part, you know. 23:38 Yeah, I remember and so I would join right in. 23:41 And then it just became habit. 23:43 Next thing, you know, 23:44 let me get there little earlier. 23:46 So I surrounded myself with positive people. 23:49 Then I started reading for myself the words. 23:52 Words that I had heard many, many times, 23:54 sermons that I had heard thousands of times. 23:56 I'm reading it for myself. 23:58 And so I took on a mission, 23:59 I said, I'm gonna read the Bible through, 24:01 cover to cover and see how long it takes me. 24:03 You know, I'm an academician, this should be easy. 24:05 Oh, not so much. 24:07 Okay, Chronicles was rough. 24:08 Okay. 24:10 But I challenged myself, do this. 24:12 And each time I read it through, 24:14 eventually, I did it eight times 24:17 an academic test. 24:20 But how do you read the Bible and not be changed. 24:23 My intention wasn't to be changed. 24:24 My intention was, 24:26 let me read this thing for myself 24:27 and see what it says. 24:29 As I read it, the Lord does what He does. 24:31 No, you messed up, now you've opened up My word. 24:33 Yes, yes, yes. 24:34 And so He had my attention. 24:36 And so I started reading those. 24:37 So those three things that we summarize, 24:39 first step back, 24:41 surround yourself with positive people 24:42 that love the Lord, 24:44 and then you must read it for yourself. 24:47 Don't take anyone else's word for. 24:49 Don't live off anyone else's experience. 24:51 That means you won't give credit for 24:54 and you won't reject it 24:55 because of something somebody else said. 24:56 Yes. 24:58 If you're gonna accept it or not, 24:59 it will be based on your experience 25:01 and those three things, 25:02 that's where I would start with somebody. 25:04 That's rich, that's rich. 25:05 You have got to get this book. 25:08 This book is such a blessing. 25:11 I'm just thrilled with what I found in here 25:15 and how you've brought science and all that 25:19 and the Bible together, 25:21 psychology and the Bible together 25:23 and I just think, you know, 25:25 whenever we can show and demonstrate 25:28 the relevance of the Bible, 25:30 especially in these secular times 25:32 where people are acting like the Bible is antiquated, 25:35 obsolete book and we can show where, 25:37 now look, principles here are timeless. 25:41 And that's what you've done. Well, thank you. 25:43 God bless 'cause that's what I was looking for 25:44 and if you can't find it, 25:46 then you should write it, you know, 25:47 and I was looking for a book that combine science 25:51 'cause I believe in science. 25:52 And I've cousins and friends 25:54 that are very much scientists and researchers 25:57 and they sometimes question the Bible, you know, 26:00 because of its relevance in terms of well... 26:02 does it hold up to science. 26:03 And in my mind, 26:05 it takes more faith to believe 26:06 in some of the scientific theories 26:08 than it does to believe in the Bible. 26:09 But that's my choice. 26:10 Other people say, no science is king. 26:12 But for me, I needed a book 26:14 that would take in my desire and need 26:17 to understand scientifically 26:19 what the Bible was saying to me. 26:21 And that's when they will speak to you individually 26:23 and so the Bible texts were relevant. 26:26 The spiritual experience is relevant. 26:29 Doing the work that I do in the community was relevant 26:31 and so putting all that together and saying, 26:33 this is something that I think might help someone. 26:36 That was my goal. 26:38 That's tremendous. 26:39 What closing thought 26:41 would you give in like 30 seconds, 26:42 what closing thought would you give to someone 26:45 who's in the midst of this struggle right now? 26:47 The first thing I would say is hold on. 26:49 Okay. 26:51 Do not allow your circumstances 26:54 determine what you think about yourself, 26:56 what you think about your future. 26:58 God is a powerful God and He's powerful, 27:02 more powerful than your circumstances. 27:05 You have to realize that it's okay to be down. 27:10 It doesn't mean you're gonna stay there. 27:11 He may just be getting your attention. 27:13 It's okay to question. 27:16 You may ask a question that only God can answer. 27:19 It's okay to wonder 27:21 if you're heading in the right direction, 27:23 only God can redirect you. 27:25 And so do not run away from those things 27:28 that may be traditional 27:29 that people have told you to avoid. 27:31 Ask God to help you. 27:33 He has never ever said 27:34 no to an honest plea for help. 27:36 Oh, Doc, that's so beautiful. 27:38 And our time is up, 27:40 I cannot believe that our time is up, 27:42 it went by so fast. 27:43 What a blessing you've been. 27:45 Thank you so much for being with us. 27:46 Thank you for having me. 27:48 Will you come back? I sure will. 27:49 You know, we have special, 27:50 I just so appreciate all that you do, 27:53 and all that you're doing for us. 27:54 So thank you so much, and thank you for tuning in. 27:57 Join us next time because you know what, 27:59 it just wouldn't be the same without you. |
Revised 2016-10-10