Participants: Yvonne Lewis (Host), Laketia and Lee Carrell
Series Code: UBR
Program Code: UBR000207A
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00:01 Do you need a tune up of your parenting skills?
00:03 Well, stay tuned to meet some folks 00:05 whose focus is to take you to the next level. 00:08 My name is Yvonne Lewis 00:09 and you're watching Urban Report. 00:35 Hello and welcome to Urban Report. 00:38 My guests today are Lee and Laketia Carrell, 00:41 Lee offers parenting tips from a male point of view 00:44 for all the fathers and attendants of their Seminars. 00:47 Laketia is a Licensed Family Counselor 00:50 with over 24 years of experience 00:52 in the field of Youth and Family Services. 00:55 Welcome to Urban Report Lee and Laketia... yeah... 00:58 Laketia: Happy to be here. Lee: Thank you very much. 01:04 Parenting is such a... is such an important part of life 01:09 and when you have a child... nobody tells you what to do, 01:14 you don't have like a manual... 01:16 like, like an Owner's Manual, so to speak... 01:18 when you have a child so... it's... 01:21 it's such an important part of everyday life 01:26 and to get some tips and strategies on it is so critical 01:30 how did you guys get involved in this... in this whole field? 01:33 Well, I'll tell you... it all started in 2011, 01:36 you probably heard of Pastor Keymone Hines 01:39 Yvonne: Yes. 01:41 Yeah, he was the Youth Ministry Leader 01:43 for Central States Conference and he saw a need 01:45 for the parents to get some tips and advice 01:48 because they were having little troubles and issues 01:51 with their children and so he spoke to Laketia, actually, 01:55 he didn't know she was a therapist at all... 01:57 but he knew our daughter from Oakwood 02:00 and he thought, 02:01 "Wow, she's a nice, mannerly young lady... " 02:04 so he spoke to her as a parent first of all 02:06 and then found out that she's a licensed therapist 02:08 and he invited us to work with him 02:11 with Parents Train Up and we got started then 02:15 and we've been rolling ever since. 02:16 Wow! and so how do you two work together in this 02:21 because it's a ministry... I know... 02:23 what is your role, Lee, with the whole ministry? 02:26 Now, my role is mainly the technical... 02:28 so I do the computer set up, 02:30 the presentation, the audio visual and the taping 02:34 to make sure that everything is running... functioning properly, 02:37 much like your crew here at 3abn does 02:40 and also, I do some of the presentation 02:44 but I do the male part because sometimes men and women... 02:48 we do things differently 02:50 doesn't mean you're better, or doesn't mean I'm worse, 02:52 but different... so I kind of bring that part into it also. 02:56 Nice... you bring that male perspective into the mix. 02:58 Lee: Right, hmmm... hmmm... 02:59 That's good... Laketia, 03:01 how did you get interested in Family Therapy? 03:03 Well, I just thought that 03:07 it's needed 03:08 I mean... when I was going to church, 03:10 you can see people in so much pain... 03:12 and it just seemed like... I need to do more... 03:16 I just felt like we needed 03:17 something more needs to be going on 03:19 and I didn't realize that just talking to people 03:23 is really good but the way you talk to them 03:25 can make a really big difference in their perspective changing 03:30 and their understanding themselves 03:32 and then... their understanding 03:33 the underlying beliefs that's driving some behaviors 03:36 that are causing problems in their lives 03:38 so, once I began to realize that I can do something to help 03:43 because there was a lot of help that was needed 03:45 and there still is a lot of help needed for our church members 03:48 to... just members in general... 03:50 just to function at a higher level as Christians 03:54 and to be more spiritual minded 03:57 and it even affects your trust in God so 04:00 that was my goal... was to just help people to 04:03 just live better lives. 04:04 Yes, yes, unpack a little bit for me 04:08 that whole idea of your underlying beliefs 04:11 kind of being the impetus for the way 04:14 you treat people or the way you interact 04:17 or the way you respond. 04:19 Exactly... how I feel about myself 04:21 definitely is reflected in how I treat other people 04:25 so, for example, 04:26 if I'm feeling some self-condemnation 04:29 then when other people come to me... 04:33 maybe they're asking a legitimate question 04:35 but it will feel as if they are persecuting me 04:37 or accusing me of something 04:39 or making an allegation against me 04:40 because I have a personal belief about of myself, 04:43 that either I'm a bad person... I'm not as good a Christian... 04:47 and I think a whole lot of people suffer from that, 04:49 not really free in Christ 04:51 and so, it's my belief... a lot of times young people 04:55 have beliefs that, "No, I'm not as pretty as... 04:58 I'm not loved... I'm not cared for... " 05:00 and all of those things 05:02 affect how they interact with their peers, 05:04 how they are persuaded by their peers 05:07 and how they are accepting the beliefs of their parents 05:10 yet... I mean... it's huge what we believe about ourselves 05:13 and I think the Bible says it like this, 05:15 "as a man believeth... so is he... " 05:17 and that's critical... that is so important 05:20 that we try to spend some time getting to know who we are 05:23 and what our underlying beliefs are... what those are... 05:26 That's good... so, let's look at a scenario, 05:30 so, I'm a teenager right... 05:33 it's a stretch... I know... but I'm a teenager... 05:36 Laketia: Not that much of a stretch. 05:38 Oh... you're sweet... I'm a teenager 05:41 and I have a really bad attitude problem 05:43 like, I'm just... 05:46 you can't tell me what to do, 05:47 "Don't tell me what to do... don't... " you know... 05:50 and I'm going to talk back because I'm angry or something 05:55 so, how do you deal with that teen 05:58 that is belligerent... that is talking back... 06:03 that is just angry... 06:05 how do you deal with that as a parent? 06:07 Well, that's a loaded question, so that is... 06:11 depends on so many things, first of all, 06:14 all the anger could be a response to 06:17 having been traumatized... 06:19 having had some painful incidents in the past time... 06:23 so it could come from that position. 06:26 It could have come from young people having been 06:29 overly empowered by their parents 06:30 and the children are driving the car... 06:33 and the parent is riding in the passenger side 06:35 and the parent... every now and then 06:37 reaches over to take that steering wheel 06:39 and the child grabs it back 06:41 so that's a second reason they may feel that. 06:44 A third reason and underlying reason may be 06:47 just their... again... beliefs about themselves, 06:49 some will have gotten the message 06:50 that they're not worthwhile... they're not important... 06:53 no one loves them, it may not have been 06:56 intentionally given to them by their parents... 06:58 it may not have been intentionally given to them, 07:00 and maybe it was intentionally given to them, 07:02 so it's a loaded question and you're going to attack 07:04 all those things in a different way as a parent... 07:07 so it's like, parents really... they have a really hard job 07:12 it's always been difficult so... because one problem 07:15 could have four different possibilities 07:19 of where it came from 07:20 and sometimes young people aren't able to 07:22 or unwilling to... unwilling... just like we are... 07:25 unwilling to connect this dot with that dot 07:28 and come up with the right answers. 07:30 Either unwilling or unable... 07:32 Unwilling and unable... correct... 07:33 They might not have the skills to do that? 07:35 Laketia: They may not have the skills. 07:36 But you had on some really, really important points 07:39 and I want to come back to that for a second, 07:40 the first thing was the trauma... 07:43 and I think in our communities there is so much trauma 07:47 a lot of... I wrote an article on this 07:51 for our 3ABN World Magazine 07:53 about the PTSD that exists in our communities 07:57 and nobody really deals with it because we don't think... 08:01 we associate PTSD with war... 08:05 with veterans... but not with people in our communities, 08:09 I mean, think about people in Chicago 08:11 who... when you walk from one street to the next... 08:14 you could get shot, I mean, 08:16 it's like... and in our larger cities... 08:20 these things are happening and we... we... 08:22 because we might not live like that 08:26 we don't think about that but it is a war zone 08:30 in many cities... so trauma... is... 08:33 Is huge... also it's... I think about Mike Brown... 08:37 that situation... one of the major problems with that... 08:40 when it happened was... 08:42 he lay out there on the ground for four hours... 08:45 and I think it just gave the people an opportunity 08:49 to just feel more and more and more anger... 08:51 I don't know why they chose to handle that 08:53 that particular way but they did 08:55 and so you have people, little kids, adults... 08:59 and they're looking at this man who's been shot 09:02 and it's hot out there and it was just a mess, 09:06 so it gave people a chance to think, 09:09 "This is wrong... something is wrong with this, 09:11 this should not be happening" 09:12 so, there are a lot of things going on 09:15 in the schools... your children are being bullied 09:18 and mistreated and there are some terrible things 09:22 happening in the schools and every setting... 09:25 Satan is running rampant... well we know, of course, 09:27 that God is the answer, 09:29 He has everything under control... 09:31 and there are answers and... one of the things that really 09:35 I want parents to know is that 09:37 just because your child suffers from a traumatic incident 09:41 or something happened to them personally, 09:44 it does not mean their lives are over, 09:46 it doesn't that they're going to become addicted to drugs 09:51 or promiscuous... that doesn't mean that, 09:53 it simply means that you have to be empowered 09:56 and taught how to manage the situation, 09:58 it's like walking a tightrope 10:00 because you, yourself, as a parent can actually reinforce 10:04 the "victim identification" within your child 10:09 you can pick up that ball and you run with it 10:13 and the child will learn that, "Oh, I'm a victim... " 10:17 they also learn that it's very powerful to be a victim, 10:20 it's really powerful in America to be a victim. 10:23 That's sounds like that's an oxymoron... doesn't it? 10:26 It's powerful to be a victim... how... how is that? 10:29 Well, because then... 10:30 sometimes we feel really sad for people... and we should 10:34 feel compassion and empathy for individuals 10:37 and sometimes the person learns that, 10:40 "Oh, I can get what I want or what I need from this... " 10:43 so they're not learning to be assertive... 10:46 they're not learning to manage their anger, 10:49 they're not learning skills that they're supposed to learn 10:52 because we use this... or in our minds... 10:55 we see them as a victim and we begin to treat them as so, 10:59 and so... so you see how our underlying beliefs 11:02 about other people... about other people... hurt them 11:07 and it can hurt us, it hurts our relationships 11:09 and so, that's the goal... is to get people 11:13 to parent their children as God parents us. 11:16 Oh, that's such a good... that's such a good point... 11:19 that whole idea of the "victim mentality" 11:22 versus one who will kind of... with God's direction, of course, 11:30 take charge of their own life and make decisions 11:36 and choices that are wise versus... 11:40 "I can't do it because of X, Y, Z... " 11:43 Right... "This incident that happened to me, 11:46 a long time ago is now in the driver's seat 11:49 and running my life but not ruining... 11:52 because I'm getting what I want from this... " 11:55 it's just not a healthy way to get what I want 11:57 and it doesn't work all of the time 11:59 so it's not a consistent... 12:01 you're success rate is not consistent. 12:05 That's excellent... then you also said, 12:08 another factor is... when the parent is relinquishing 12:14 his or her authority in that Driver's Seat 12:17 and I've seen it over and over again 12:21 where the parent allows the child 12:24 to make certain decisions that really... 12:26 the parents should be making 12:28 and so, unpack that a little bit for us if you would. 12:32 Well, I don't think all the time people know age appropriate... 12:36 and developmentally appropriate behavior, 12:39 so, let's say, you have a 15-year old 12:42 but developmentally... he's chronologically 15 12:46 but developmentally... he may be 10... 12:48 so then, he cannot have the same privileges 12:51 of a responsible 15-year-old child, 12:54 and it's not wrong... it's not unfair... 12:57 it's the way it is... 12:58 so if you have a ten-year old 13:01 and they're actually a two-year old... 13:03 you just cannot give them the same type... 13:05 it's irresponsible to do that, 13:07 it will hurt them and it will hurt you too 13:09 and then sometimes we're just too busy 13:11 not shaming or blaming anyone 13:14 but life is just so fast and so busy 13:18 that it's so easy to abdicate your responsibilities 13:21 and pass them on to young... to your young children 13:24 but there's a flipside to that 13:26 because when the child gets to be 14 or 15 13:29 and they've been like a little adult in the house, 13:33 it's not cute anymore, it's a major problem now 13:36 because now, they're ready to just hit the streets 13:39 and go and do... and you're saying to them, 13:41 "You're not old enough" but they've been old enough 13:43 to do all this other stuff, they've been managing the house 13:47 so running their houses... in their minds 13:49 and you haven't been aware that they were doing that, 13:52 it's been kind of easy... for you may have called them, 13:55 "responsible" or whatever the term you use for it 13:58 but you've placed them in a position where now 14:01 they're ready to just really take over and you're saying, 14:04 "No, you're not supposed to be in this position. " 14:06 Right. 14:07 And it's hard to turn back the hands of time... 14:09 and it's very difficult. 14:10 It is, because you have put them and I see this with 14:15 single-parent households a lot where... 14:18 and I'd like your perspective on it too, Lee, as a man, but... 14:22 where a single mother is raising her children 14:27 there's an older boy in the house 14:30 might be 15... 17... whatever, 14:32 he becomes the "man of the house" in a sense 14:36 but he's not providing, 14:37 he's not learning what the man of the house does 14:41 he's just put into that role of confidant and... 14:45 and that kind of thing and then... 14:47 and he's also being taken care of by mom, 14:51 so, as he gets older he might think, 14:55 "Well, my mom did this for me 14:57 so now, you as my wife, should be doing this... " 15:01 I mean, it's a big, big problem that I see. 15:04 It's huge... it's a huge problem and, I mean, 15:06 I had some teenage boys and they were saying, 15:09 they were trying to find a woman they had a name for it 15:12 but essentially, she was going to take care of them, 15:15 that means... they were looking for that... 15:17 these were 15- and 16-year old boys, 15:19 they weren't looking to get degrees and get jobs, 15:21 they were looking for someone to take care of them. 15:24 It is a huge problem, now, I'll say, 15:26 back to the structure that you just laid out, 15:28 whether it's a single family or a two-parent family, 15:33 it's a dangerous structure to put... 15:37 to give all of this power to maybe a 17-year-old boy or girl 15:41 and you have smaller children, then we get into abuse, 15:45 children are either physically abusing smaller kids 15:48 or even sexually abusing smaller children 15:51 so it's a dangerous position to put 15:53 because they're young people, they're highly impulsive, 15:57 they're not thinking about 15:59 how this is going to affect the child ten years from now, 16:01 that's what adults do... 16:03 so, you put them in an adult position with adult power 16:06 and young children are kind of taught to follow this... 16:10 to do what you say if you will, 16:12 to do what your older brother or sister says 16:14 and then you have this... 16:16 they're not able to manage all of their power 16:19 so, I really... and it's not at 17 16:21 that they're calling these young boys... "the man of the house" 16:25 they can start at three years old, 16:27 four years old... I mean... 16:28 they're training children from almost the crib up until now, 16:31 up until they're 17 or 18 at which point 16:35 you want to take your power back, 16:36 maybe you want to get married and here this person is... 16:39 he's thinking, "I'm the pseudo husband. " 16:41 That's right. 16:42 "No one's going to step up in here... over me" 16:44 and that's a major problem. 16:46 It's a major problem... it's very difficult 16:48 to then shift roles because you put this boy or girl 16:54 or if it's the father with the daughter... 16:56 you've put this child in the position almost... of spouse 17:00 and now you want to shift and bring someone else in there... 17:03 Laketia: It's not happening... Yvonne: It's not happening... 17:06 It's not going to happen. 17:07 Yvonne: What do you think about this Lee? 17:09 Well, one of the things too that you're pointing out 17:11 about the young teenager 17:13 being look at as the "man in the home" 17:16 sometimes, parents even call them, "Little man" or 17:19 "you're the man of the house" like Laketia was saying 17:21 but they forget to train them and teach them 17:24 how to be the man of the house, they just assume 17:26 men do certain things and they're trying and tell 17:29 the young man that you're the man... so you figure it out 17:32 but all of our young men need to be taught 17:35 how to be a man, it's not enough that you are 17:38 just a male gender... but it's all about your characteristics, 17:42 your abilities to provide, to take care of a family 17:45 and to love them and to be the Priest of the household 17:48 so, it's fine to look at your teenage son 17:52 who is going to become the man of his own home, 17:56 not your home but his own home 17:59 but you have to put in the work to make him 18:02 or turn him into a proper God-fearing man, 18:04 not just... giving him the power 18:06 and saying, "There, go be a man... " 18:07 because our young men will look at each other 18:10 for how to be a man or someone else on the street 18:13 and they'll get the totally wrong 18:15 type of man that God wants us to be. 18:17 And that is exactly what we're dealing with. 18:19 Lee: Hmmm... hmmm... 18:21 That is exactly what we're dealing with 18:23 in our communities right now, 18:26 a misplaced perception of manhood. 18:29 I don't... it... I personally feel that 18:34 I can't teach my sons how to be men... I'm not a man, 18:39 I can teach them how to treat a woman 18:41 because I'm a woman and I know how a man should treat a woman 18:47 but I can't teach my sons to be men... a man needs to do that 18:52 and I think this is where 18:54 we've had such huge problems in our homes 18:58 and this is where the "gang concept" comes in 19:02 because as you said, Lee, 19:03 they're looking to other young men to teach them 19:07 and that's the blind leading the blind... they don't know, 19:09 "You stepped on my shoe, you disrespected me... 19:12 I'm gonna to kill you... " 19:13 I mean, it goes... to there... which is like, 19:16 so off the wall but it's because they have no role model 19:21 and so, one of the things I'm really excited about 19:24 is that you guys are teaching what it is to be 19:29 a young Godly man, 19:31 what it is to be a young Godly woman 19:34 and you're teaching parents to teach their children 19:38 how to do this in your Parents Train Up Program, 19:42 tell us what people get from that? 19:44 You were going to make a comment first... I could tell. 19:47 Oh well, yes, I was thinking about 19:48 what he was saying about young men looking to other men 19:52 another thing that happens in our family structures is 19:55 as a single parent we feel like we have to 19:59 with a single mother... may feel like 20:02 she has to be a man and a woman and it's just not possible, 20:04 it's not possible... 20:06 we end up not doing either one very good, 20:08 so it's really important for single women to recognize 20:12 or single parents... 20:14 male parents who are single... and female parents... 20:18 said, you know "I can only be this one person, 20:20 I can't be two, three or four or five people... " 20:23 I can absolutely do the absolute best that I can... 20:26 but I'm not able to... so don't put all of that 20:29 on yourself... it's... it's just too much... 20:32 it's overwhelming... it's too much... 20:34 One of the things too... we can look at 20:36 in our community is... 20:37 there are good role models in the community... 20:39 some of the Leaders... 20:41 especially some of our church pastors, elders... 20:44 that our young men can look to 20:46 if we direct them to them, but like you said, 20:49 if I'm out on the street corner, 20:51 this is the person I see... this guy... he's running game... 20:54 and he's dealing in drugs or in crime... 20:56 and he looks like he's doing pretty well 20:58 so they'll gravitate toward the person they see 21:01 so if we can get our young men maybe at a community center 21:05 or open night for some of our churches that have facilities 21:08 get them into an environment 21:10 where they can see good role models 21:12 then hopefully they'll gravitate towards that person 21:15 instead of the person who's out doing wrong. 21:17 Right... right... right... 21:19 what do you guys do in your Parents Train up programs? 21:22 I see the shirts ParentsTrainUp. org 21:25 what do you do? 21:26 We have a really great time, we have a lot of fun... 21:29 we'd start the parents off doing a parenting assessment, 21:32 and so they will learn what type of parenting style they have 21:36 whether they are aggressive parents et cetera 21:38 and we have expanded that to give them some suggestions... 21:42 maybe about ten suggestions 21:44 on how they can improve their parenting... 21:46 and then we go through... 21:48 depending on what we're focusing on, 21:50 we may go through a session on 21:52 building a relationship with your children... 21:56 disciplining children and we may also talk about 21:59 creating memories with your children 22:02 finally we do something called, "Letting go... " 22:04 teaching parents... because really... 22:06 now what I see... this is kind of a problem for me 22:09 that I have to work on for myself, 22:11 is we're infantilizing these young people 22:15 they never grow up, they don't have to grow up 22:18 and we're holding and hovering and hugging 22:21 and making them into adults who can't function 22:24 it's tough so... that's one that we spend some time too 22:27 talking about letting go... 22:29 and how to do that and stuff 22:30 so, it's usually about six hours, 22:33 we do it like... on a Sunday we've done it on Saturdays 22:37 and we come in and we'll do that... give people lunch 22:40 and it's just a really fun time, we're laughing... 22:43 parents are asking questions 22:45 and you think that we're in church 22:47 and that they... there's not that many problems 22:50 but there are some pretty severe problems in our churches 22:53 by the time people get to a place where they want to come 22:56 to do a parenting workshop, 22:59 they have some pretty severe stuff going on 23:02 so, and it's like... 23:03 "Okay, I'm here for this one day and let's see what I can do. " 23:07 We also do parenting coaching, you can call... 23:10 we have had people to call and 23:11 we'll coach them through some stuff 23:13 because I just feel like we... we... our kids need help 23:17 and the most important thing, 23:18 we cannot afford to lose them from Christ, 23:21 we can't afford to lose our children... 23:25 let them get lost spiritually... 23:27 because if we do that, 23:29 then, that's an eternal problem right there, 23:33 I'm okay with children being uncomfortable 23:36 because they have been disciplined, 23:38 I can handle that but it's just the thought that 23:41 we're losing our children and... 23:43 that they may not make it back to Christ... that's the problem. 23:46 Oh, that's so important... 23:47 in fact I want to put your website up 23:49 so that people can contact you to come to their churches, 23:53 to do seminars... 23:55 or to come and talk to the people in church about parenting 24:00 I mean, it's so important, it's so important that... 24:03 how about this for a segue, 24:04 we are doing a Program on Dare to Dream with you guys. 24:07 Laketia: That's right. 24:08 And I'm super, super excited about it. 24:11 Lakeitia: I am too. 24:12 Tell us what the Program is going to be about 24:14 it's going to be called, "Pumped Up Parents" 24:17 tell us what is "Pumped Up Parents" about? 24:19 Well, Pumped Up Parents... we're going to start with a 24:23 with a skit... showing people how not to do parenting 24:28 which all of us have done, I know that I've made mistakes 24:32 and I want everyone to feel like, 24:33 "Oh okay, I'm not the only person doing this" 24:36 and then we'll talk about 24:38 how this "wrong way" affects our children 24:40 and then we'll show the correct way 24:43 and then we'll talk about the right... 24:46 how that affects our children and give strategies, 24:48 I'm all about strategies, 24:49 it's just not a... I just don't want digging up trash 24:53 and leaving it in the floor, you dig it up and we put it away 24:57 and so, we give you something new... instead, 25:00 "This is what you can do instead. " 25:02 So, I'm really excited about it. 25:04 I am too, I can't wait, we're going to tape it soon 25:08 and it's going to air soon by the grace of God 25:11 what role does spirituality have... 25:15 in your estimation... both of you... 25:20 for parents... not just for the children 25:22 but for parents raising their children? 25:25 Well, of course, that's our first role in life as parents 25:29 God put us in charge of our children 25:32 and He expects us to be responsible, 25:34 He expects us to teach our children about Him, 25:38 He expects us to train them properly 25:40 because He's going to ask, 25:42 "Where's the little sheep that I gave you?" 25:44 And we want to be able to say, 25:46 "Here they are, right here with me... praise your Holy Name" 25:49 so, we want to go from a spiritual aspect 25:52 because anyone can just have an opinion about things, 25:56 we can all make up an opinion and we might possibly be right 25:59 but we're going to focus on what God says 26:02 how we should raise our children 26:04 because we know if we do it His way, 26:05 everything is going to be just fine. 26:08 And spiritually for me it means this, 26:10 every child is different and you have to be spiritually led 26:16 to lead that child to Christ 26:18 and eventually into the kingdom of heaven. 26:22 Now, we can get religion versus spirituality 26:25 and so, we can have our children following rules 26:28 and appearing to be following the dictates of what we say 26:34 however... no connection with God, 26:37 so we want to teach parents 26:39 to have a spiritual connection themselves 26:41 and to listen to God 26:43 so that He can tell them and show them 26:45 what to do and how to do with this particular child 26:48 because every person is different. 26:51 Ah, so what you're saying is, 26:53 one of your roles is to lead people into 26:56 a deeper relationship with the Lord 26:59 so that He becomes their guide as they parent. 27:03 Correct... correct... and that they will parent as God parents, 27:07 I mean, we have one facet of God that He is loving and kind 27:11 but God doesn't want us to hurt ourselves 27:13 so sometimes, He puts up shields and obstacles in our path 27:17 and tries to stop us from hurting ourselves 27:19 and so as parents, we have to do that side too, 27:22 it's just as much love as being kind and generous is. 27:25 Wow! you guys are such a blessing. 27:28 Thank you so much for being with us. 27:29 Laketia: Thank you for having us Lee: Thank you. 27:32 Thank you, the Bible says, 27:34 to train up a child in the way he should go: 27:37 and when he is old, he will not depart from it. 27:40 It doesn't mean that he'll never leave the church, 27:42 it doesn't mean that he won't make mistakes... 27:44 he or she won't make mistakes, 27:45 it means that that seed is planted 27:48 and it's something to always come back to 27:51 so train up your children in the way they should go. 27:55 Well, we've reached the end of another program, 27:58 thank you so much for being with us, 27:59 join us next time because you know what? 28:01 It just wouldn't be the same without you. |
Revised 2016-11-14