Participants: Xavier Morales (Host), Gordon Fraser, Denry White
Series Code: AFH
Program Code: AFH000006A
00:01 A good father takes time to play
00:05 He has strong integrity
00:07 He is someone that is truly dedicated
00:11 He is not afraid to show his love
00:15 He is a caring provider
00:20 And he's a kind, spiritual leader
00:22 These are just a few ways to describe a father's heart
00:30 Hi welcome to A Father's Heart. My name is Xavier and I'll be
00:33 your host. Today we're talking about fatherless men
00:36 when superman is missing, you know that father figure
00:39 the father with a big S on his chest that comes to the rescue
00:44 what if they're missing for whatever reason that might be?
00:46 and they never come, that father never comes
00:50 what does that look like when the child grows up
00:52 and becomes a man? What does his life look like afterwards
00:56 And with me to talk about that is Gordon and Denry. Welcome
01:00 How're you guys doing today? Thank you.
01:01 Doing well, doing well today
01:03 I'd like to go by a different name today
01:07 No, this is a subject that's close to home for me
01:13 because I left Jamaica, came to America and my dad was
01:20 when we were there he was not too much in my life, I mean
01:24 he was in and out but once we left, came here not too much
01:32 of a relationship. I'd speak to him maybe on the phone
01:35 once every couple of years and I look at life as a bank
01:41 if there's nothing that you put in, if there's nothing put in
01:45 then later on when you're in need of something to pull out
01:50 you know there's nothing to grab for.
01:52 So if the father is not in the child's life whether because of
01:57 disease or incarcerated whatever the case may be
01:59 as a child is growing up, you know he or she are looking for
02:04 things to put, examples, things to put in the bank
02:07 and so when you become an adult now
02:10 the man is looking, well I have a wife how do I love her?
02:14 how do I deal with these, her hormones or rages or whatever
02:21 and if he doesn't have anything to pick out of his bank
02:26 then he's confused or he has to find it from someone else's bank
02:31 so it's possible he has no direction.
02:33 Cause to me that's what it looks like. It looks like a man
02:38 grew up without direction, without purpose
02:40 and you're looking for a purpose because we are, we need to have
02:45 that relationship with a father a father figure and if we don't
02:51 have it in the father's absence then we're gonna look, we're
02:55 gonna try to find that or you just grow up without purpose
02:59 and it's not good to grow up without purpose, you need to
03:02 you know you want to be successful and you want to
03:05 instead of always looking for that person, you know my adopted
03:13 brother for example, I have an adopted brother
03:15 and he never really, his father wasn't in his life
03:20 and I can say, up to now he's still looking
03:24 for that bond, it's important for a father to be in the life
03:30 There are questions I would love to ask
03:33 even now when I pick up the phone and see, I'm thankful
03:38 at least I do have a father I can call, I mean I can have a
03:43 good conversation but I can call him so I can only imagine
03:46 for the men out there that don't have a father whether they're
03:50 deceased or what and so there are questions I have just about
03:55 life, life that when I call him it's like he's also still trying
04:04 to find and when you find his story, his father wasn't there
04:10 There's lots of times you know you have those instances where
04:12 fathers don't even sign off on the birth certificate
04:15 like they're literally non-existent
04:17 and you know you have the ones that are missing
04:20 but they come eventually. These are father that, you know,
04:24 these kids grow up without fathers, period. They never
04:26 see them from childhood to adulthood.
04:28 Non-existent. I mean what do we do? What can we do?
04:33 What is that you know, I grew up with a father. My mom and dad
04:37 married, I know what that looks like. But I've seen kids
04:41 who basically look like a compass without direction
04:44 just spinning. They have no identity they don't know where
04:48 they come from, they don't know who they are. I can only imagine
04:52 because a lot of our traits, our character traits are inherited
04:56 from our father, genetically. So I don't know for me it is
05:01 confusing because for me I can't understand that.
05:04 However, I've seen so many. I see them and it breaks my heart
05:09 because their father never existed.
05:12 This is not somebody that was here one minute gone the next
05:15 these are fathers that never existed and these kids
05:19 are hurting, they're hurting. And yes we can look to our
05:22 heavenly Father all day, every day but we also need the
05:26 physical, tangible father. What do we do with these kids?
05:31 We talked about it, the mentor. They need someone to mentor
05:36 someone to mentor when they're in this kind of a relationship
05:40 without the father what happens is that they become very violent
05:44 and they start to lash out, they start to misbehave in school
05:50 they misbehave at home, outbursts against the mother
05:54 I'm talkin about a real issue without sayin anything about
05:58 the issue. I mean all of this stuff starts to happen and then
06:02 what happens to the child, the child ends up from
06:07 one institution to the next. And so there's a huge problem
06:13 what's happened with that young man is that the young man
06:16 has found a mentor, a solid one that can go Sabbaths
06:23 and say I need to talk to you. And I need to have conversation
06:27 and that mentor sits down and says, ok let's talk
06:31 what's goin on? And fortunately that mentor is me.
06:34 So I know it's important to sit down and talk with the young man
06:40 and I can tell you any point in time when he's misbehaving
06:45 at home and I get a call and I get on the phone with him
06:48 attitude changes, he's totally different.
06:52 And one of his biggest complaints
06:55 complaints is I never knew my father
06:58 and I would love to know my father. So his aggression
07:02 is against his mother, against his family, school
07:08 he's acting up and he doesn't even know why
07:11 he's acting up because he never had that in his home
07:16 grew up with a lot of women, uncles and stuff like that
07:22 but some of them were positive role models in his life. So
07:26 one thing that is needed is good solid mentor relationship
07:32 That's what is needed for some of these men. Yeah
07:34 And now you know you have two sides. For example some who
07:40 unfortunately the father died. You know I talked to a young man
07:47 couple weeks ago. His father died when he was two
07:50 totally unfair in his mind. He asks God, why?
07:55 I didn't even get a chance. He was saying basically, I hear
08:00 people talkin about their father is out of town and so I can't do
08:06 do that. My father is in a cemetery.
08:09 And so for them it's like God this is so unfair.
08:12 I don't even have an excuse, my dad doesn't have an excuse
08:16 he's deceased. Then you have another situation where father
08:22 maybe incarcerated because of something they've done
08:24 whether innocent or guilty. And some of them are in prison for
08:30 the rest of their life and some times in another state
08:35 So now there's just can't because of the circumstance
08:41 And so once again the child says this is not fair
08:46 So how do we address them as mentors, as pastors, ministers
08:52 how do you address a young man like that even older men like
08:56 that who say God did this, it's not fair, it's not right
08:59 My dad didn't even have an opportunity
09:06 Before we go there and answer that question I think another
09:11 question, something that's turnin in my mind is
09:13 how can that family, that mother find that good mentor
09:22 what are some of the steps they can take to find a good mentor
09:24 to make sure their child is safe. I think the church is an
09:29 important part of making that happen.
09:31 I think you start with your pastors, you start with elders
09:35 who have been stable in the church for a while
09:40 so that you can talk to them about this is the situation
09:45 this is what's goin on. One of our big problems is that
09:48 we don't talk about real issues.
09:50 And so we're afraid to come to the pastor or an elder
09:57 someone senior in the church and say this is what I'm going
10:01 through. My son is acting up and this is the reason why
10:05 I think he's acting up or I don't know why he's behaving
10:09 the way he's behaving. Can you help me? Can you find a mentor
10:14 for him? So you put that responsibility on the pastor
10:20 or a group. I think the churches need to start having mentoring
10:25 programs where we spend time vetting the people
10:29 making sure their backgrounds are safe so that we can turn our
10:35 children over into their hands to mentor them, to spend some
10:40 time with them. Take them to a ball game, take them out to
10:43 lunch, those things so that they can have some kind of
10:48 a semblance of wholeness. Father or a mentor as a father
10:55 in their lives to help them become productive citizens
10:59 We can do something, the problem is real but we need to talk
11:04 about it, we need to put some solutions and one of the great
11:08 solutions I think is to have a mentoring system in our church
11:13 we need to do that and we don't do that effectively.
11:16 It's also knowing the resources too because as I think about
11:19 fatherless men, doesn't mean that they're motherless
11:22 Or perhaps the mothers have tried to reach out to fathers
11:26 over and over again to no avail.
11:28 You know we have programs out there in our communities
11:31 you know that are available for these kids as well.
11:35 Not just in our church, if like the church for some reason
11:39 is not able to come through, whatever reason it might be
11:44 sometimes it happens there's resources, there's programs
11:48 there's things available. You know being a father, to me
11:52 cause I'm a father of two, it's not just to my kids
11:56 being a father is also being a father to the fatherless
12:00 The Bible says that God is a father to the fatherless
12:04 And as Christians we're called to be those fathers that kids
12:09 may not have. I remember working in an inner city church
12:13 there were kids. I was being security cause they said
12:17 Ah you were a former police officer. Why don't you work
12:19 security, but I'm trying to be a pastor.
12:21 Ok I'll work security so I said OK God do something with this
12:23 and God blessed. Lots of kids started acting out in Sabbath
12:27 School so I took them out of the class and I would talk
12:30 to them and as I dialogued with them the general premise
12:34 was I never knew my father.
12:38 So I mentored these kids, I took them under my wing
12:41 not to be Father of the Year, nothing like that
12:43 but just to give them somebody to talk to
12:46 And that's important. We need to learn how to step up
12:50 as men to be able to be fathers even though they might not be
12:54 our blood. To be fathers to these kids that are aching
12:59 and being incarcerated and dying
13:01 without knowing The Heavenly Father. You know things of
13:05 that nature. And when they grow up without fathers
13:09 they become fathers and the same cycle repeats itself
13:16 Because they don't know how to be fathers, because they
13:19 never had that father. So it's something that we really need
13:23 to find solutions for, one of the great solutions is
13:28 being a mentor, just being able to mentor them, being able to
13:31 encourage them because again if they end up being fathers
13:38 same cycle. But I want to talk about another issue.
13:42 That is the same thing, the issue is we've got to tell our
13:46 fathers, no we have to tell our young men to stop having sex
13:51 outside of marriage because that is one of the big problems that
13:55 creates this problem. And so those are some issues that
13:59 we really need to address because it's almost like a
14:02 domino effect. The young men having children young and ladies
14:08 having sex outside of marriage of course it's not Biblical
14:13 and then you have these babies that's growin up without fathers
14:19 that's the base of the problem
14:23 And we kind of need to look at that first, encourage young
14:27 people. Abstinence is good, it's ok. You can wait because you
14:34 are not only thinking about yourself and your emotions
14:37 you have to think about the child. It's possible
14:42 the mother can be pregnant, the young lady can get pregnant
14:47 and boom! Here you've got a problem.
14:50 And I think that's our big problem. This whole cycle
14:55 break that cycle and we might be able to solve this issue
14:59 I think we need to start having men care. I like that. We don't
15:04 care. We can procreate like the Bible says like nobody else
15:09 but we don't care what happens afterwards.
15:11 We don't. We've gotten so numb
15:15 to emotions, to feelings that we literally leave our kids
15:19 fatherless because we just don't care. I have to fend for myself
15:24 you gotta do it too. That's just the way it works. World is hard
15:27 you gotta learn to fend for yourself.
15:28 We have these kids out there, no father to turn to, no identity
15:33 and we wonder why they run into problems with the law
15:37 problems with, you know, just catastrophic events
15:40 and even some of them, even some of them I was gonna put
15:44 it out there, even some of them joining terrorist groups
15:47 to find identity, joining ISIS to find identity
15:53 because there's something inherently wrong, inherently
15:57 wrong when these kids are joining gangs and violent groups
16:01 and us, men of God are just standing there with arms crossed
16:06 saying, we'll pray for you.
16:08 We like to do the reactive stuff but not the proactive stuff
16:14 and James as you mentioned before talked about that
16:17 true religion, you want to be religious here?
16:21 The only time the word is mentioned in Scripture
16:25 true religion, is a person who steps in when a widow has lost
16:30 her husband and when there's children without a father
16:36 Undefiled religion. True, pure religion and you know James
16:40 talks about faith and works. That you can't just pray
16:43 I'm praying for you. No, I need you to be involved.
16:47 and like you said, the mentoring you know our church is not just
16:51 to mentor the children of our church, children of our
16:57 community. We need spiritual men to mentor the children
17:04 young men and even other men in our communities
17:08 It's not too late to learn. You know they say you can't teach
17:11 an old dog new tricks? Biblically that's a lie because
17:15 when it comes to Jesus he can be 99 years old, He'll put you
17:20 correct. You see we need Biblical men, spiritual, loving
17:26 men to step in and say, Ok it wasn't fair, it wasn't fair
17:32 what happened to you but God has put me by His grace, I'm
17:39 here now to mentor you, to show you some of these things
17:43 and no, there's gonna be some things I may not be able to
17:46 show you but at least you'll have some kind of foundation
17:49 to build on. It's crazy because again fatherlessness is so
17:55 prevalent in the world today. You know a lot of these kids
17:59 that grow up without fathers they grow up to be like you said
18:01 to be fathers but the ironic thing is I see them having kids
18:07 or about to have a child and they get their spouse or
18:11 whoever significant other have an abortion.
18:14 cause they don't know, not because they don't want to
18:16 that's because they don't know how, they're afraid.
18:19 I never had a father, I don't know what to do.
18:21 Let's just kill this child. Mercy!
18:24 You know violence breeds violence and mess attracts mess
18:30 We need to step up as men of God and start helping through Jesus
18:34 to clean up this mess. Yes, we know the Bible says what it says
18:39 we know these things are to happen but do we as Christians
18:43 dedicated followers of Christ do we just watch with a bucket
18:47 of popcorn in our hands as the whole world caves in?
18:50 Or do we try our best to help these kids grow up, find Jesus
18:54 even before they grow up find Jesus and be able to at least
18:59 walk on the streets of gold rather than perish
19:02 live a life of nothing and die like nothing.
19:06 You know what do we do with these kids as men of God?
19:08 What if we started some ministries in our churches
19:12 and in our communities 'Adopt a Gangster'
19:19 Or 'Adopt a Thug'
19:22 We have men and some of the young ladies, I remember I was
19:25 preaching at one of your churches a while back and as
19:28 this lady was saying that, and she was bold, she said every
19:32 weekend she would take some muffins and go bring it out
19:38 to the gangsters in the community.
19:41 Now ok a woman is doing this a senior lady doing this
19:44 what if a man did that?
19:48 not just some muffins but some colognes, some things the young
19:53 men need, some deodorant. Adopt a Gangster
19:57 You know we get on them for not having their pants up
20:02 we get on them for being tattooed and all these things
20:04 you know we get on them for mistreating, how about adopting
20:08 a gangster? We're too busy. We don't have time.
20:12 We got our families, so why should I think of somebody else?
20:15 I mean that's what, that also happens. A lot of times I've got
20:21 work, I've got this goin on so I'm not adopting a gangster
20:25 No time for that. Matter of fact I'm not even goin in the hood
20:28 I can't go there. See it's a whole different world
20:32 But I wanna look at another angle also.
20:36 I think a lot of our men are incarcerated unfortunately
20:41 but I think if the father is not there the mother becomes that
20:48 father and that mother steps up and has to be stronger
20:54 than anything else. I look at my mom man and as my mom
20:59 we'd be down in the yard playing and she'd come right
21:03 downstairs and she'd start playing with us.
21:06 Kicking the ball with us and doing stuff like that
21:11 So I think because of that, and I did have my father
21:17 but again he wasn't always there so she took that slack
21:24 fill that void, so I think our mothers can still, I mean
21:29 step up but they cannot fill the role.
21:34 That's the difference. So that help is still needed.
21:37 Cause when I was going through puberty I had to ask my mother
21:43 I had to ask my mother the questions but it was awkward
21:45 for her, it was awkward for me too, so you know you don't have
21:49 that man to turn to like, hey there are changes going on
21:53 in my life what do I do? So yes they can minister to us,
22:00 help out, play with us but they will never fill that role
22:05 So we got to look at the fact that I know we're being called
22:10 to step up, you know even if you don't know how
22:14 you just work with something
22:16 even if you can't set anything up in the church
22:20 I just say it like that, even if you can't do anything in church
22:23 there are resources out there already in place where you can
22:25 volunteer time to be able to mentor these kids you know
22:31 even if you don't have, let's say time, there's 24 hours in
22:34 a day, I'm sure you can spare one hour just to listen
22:38 just to play a game with a child that doesn't have a father and
22:42 never grew with a father because our men now are suffering
22:46 these kids become men. You know I heard once that the church is
22:51 comprised of 82% women, our church.
22:57 And I'm like, where's the men?
23:00 Where are the men? The men are missing.
23:05 And I remember this because in my church even though I grew
23:10 up with a father and everything my family is in Florida
23:13 far away, I'm up here and I'm just like I need guidance.
23:20 And sometimes I pray, I turn to God, sometimes I need that
23:23 older male figure and it's me this is somebody that comes
23:27 from a family where mother and father are together they've been
23:31 married for a long time but I still need that guidance.
23:34 You know somebody like me needs that guidance and I turn to a
23:37 lot of the older gentlemen in the church for guidance.
23:41 So if this is me and I come from what you call a regular
23:46 background or whatever you want to call it I can only imagine
23:49 I can only fathom what these kids who grow up to be men feel
23:54 like without anyone there. It's being lost, it's like you know
24:01 hearing your own echo
24:06 I'm at a loss for words. What can we do, what else can we do
24:09 aside from mentorship. I think we need to call these men
24:15 back into action. There needs to be a place, if they're still
24:20 alive somehow we need to let men know, listen it's important
24:25 for you to be in your child's life. No matter what you're
24:30 dealin with try to be involved in your child's life.
24:34 we don't call 'em, just call 'em out, call them to action
24:37 we need to, maybe some men's group where we talk about these
24:41 issues so men step up and be the father God called you to be
24:47 You did the work, now put the time in and be that father.
24:52 I think we probably just need to call them out.
24:54 I think we also need to train some of these mentors and
25:00 fathers and some of these men.
25:03 Show them through Scripture how God the Father takes the place
25:09 of our missing fathers. You know not just send them out and say
25:16 be a father to some kid that doesn't have a father. No, they
25:19 need to know, some of them need to know, okay this is what you
25:23 should do. And you'd be surprised, it's interesting
25:27 when I play with my kids and spend time with them the things
25:30 that I wanted I now get.
25:34 From me being their father and bonding with them
25:38 the bonding that I once wanted I now get.
25:42 and so for some of these fatherless fathers or fatherless
25:46 men giving them an opportunity to mentor or minister to other
25:52 young men also fills that gap
25:58 There are programs out there too that a lot of Conferences
26:01 have to be able to screen, so to speak, and educate the men
26:06 in the church and to allocate the proper resources to the men
26:12 to make sure obviously that the men mentoring are appropriately
26:18 equipped and they have the right background to do so.
26:21 We know that this whole thing is a big ploy of the devil
26:25 he wants to destroy this relationship between fathers
26:30 and children because a father that that child sees in order
26:35 for them to see God as their heavenly Father they're looking
26:39 for an earthly father. And so when they can't find
26:43 that earthly father and that earthly father has abandoned
26:47 them you know you're trying to give them and teach them
26:50 with Christ and about God's love they're like wait a minute
26:53 Love? God's love? My earthly father was never there.
26:58 I don't even know who he is and you're gonna tell me of the love
27:01 of God? They can't see God because they don't see the
27:06 heavenly, they can't see much love, and so something that
27:10 we really need to address and try and let them see
27:13 and let them know that God still loves them.
27:15 I'm glad we talked about this. Like always we ran out of time
27:19 before we can go on, so for the viewers out there if you have
27:24 any questions, again I know you do. Or any comments.
27:28 Send them to AFH@3ABN.org
27:32 The kids out there that have no father
27:36 We're here for you in the church we're here for you.
27:39 You're not alone. The men that grew up without fathers
27:42 even though there's still a Father in Heaven who has always
27:46 loved you and made you with a purpose like the finest
27:49 masterpiece ever made, there's still men, elders in the church
27:53 that are wanting to talk to you and listen
27:55 Please don't stand alone, join us. Thank you for watching.