A Father's Heart

Fatherless Trinity

Three Angels Broadcasting Network

Program transcript

Participants: Xavier Morales (Host), Gordon Fraser, Denry White


Series Code: AFH

Program Code: AFH000007A

00:01 A good father takes time to play
00:05 He has strong integrity
00:07 He is someone that is truly dedicated
00:12 He is not afraid to show his love.
00:16 He is a caring provider
00:19 And he is a kind, spiritual leader.
00:22 These are just a few ways to describe a Father's Heart.
00:30 Hi Welcome to A Father's Heart. My name is Xavier
00:33 and I'll be your host. Today's topic is A Fatherless Trinity
00:37 when the image of God does not exist. And we see that
00:41 more often than not in this day and age in various ways
00:45 but specifically when the father is no longer there
00:49 or is abusive. So let's talk about it today. Right now.
00:54 And with me to talk about it is Gordon and Denry
00:57 Yeah. How you guys doing? I'm doing good. I'm glad to be here
01:01 A Fatherless Trinity. I know that sounds weird but when the
01:05 image of God does not exist where the father is abusive
01:08 or missing or any other way that a father affects the image of
01:13 God for their children because as you know we do as fathers
01:18 we do give the resemblance of the image of God to them
01:21 because they're little, they don't know. But what if we
01:25 cause that image to be marred or even vanish.
01:28 You know one of the things when I'm preaching at time, or even
01:31 just speaking to a general population I find myself
01:36 sometimes I have to be cautious in saying the word Father
01:42 because for some people when they hear that word,
01:44 it's offensive.
01:47 Because of what happened in their childhood, what they've
01:51 experienced. So any time they hear God the Father
01:57 it's like they can't separate those two.
02:00 Their father was abusive, their father molested them
02:05 their father was negligent, so it's God who is abusive,
02:10 God the oppressor, God the molester
02:16 So any time we use the word father, sometimes I can even
02:21 see it sometimes in some of my members
02:23 not just male or female, I mean not just females but sometimes
02:27 male, just feel uneasy.
02:31 Because again we look at the image of God and when we look at
02:38 the image of God that's how we see our fathers.
02:42 We can only deal with our earthly fathers and if our
02:46 earthly fathers have been abusive to us or if our earthly
02:48 fathers have neglected us, that's how we see God the Father
02:55 and for so many people in the world
02:59 who have been through abuse and have been through all of
03:02 these things and again these are things I believe the devil
03:05 uses to mar that perfect image of God.
03:08 Just to destroy it. And I don't know, maybe there's things
03:14 we can talk about to help restore that image
03:18 how do you restore it?
03:20 I was counseling an individual a while back and the young lady
03:30 brought it to me what her father did to her
03:32 She was there with her fiancé in the counseling session
03:36 and he was like, tell, tell tell the pastor
03:41 and you can just see like, the whole time, we've been doin
03:45 the Sabbath, the whole day she was calm, happy, smiling, joking
03:50 but as soon as she started talking about her father
03:55 you could just see the rage, it kicked in
03:59 and she even said, this is a person who's going to my church
04:05 she said, I don't believe in God.
04:08 She said where was her when I was crying to Him over and over
04:13 again, asking Him to have my father stop.
04:18 And so for her, she connected the two together.
04:23 And so for her she can't separate them.
04:27 She can't. And so the image of God for her has been tarnished
04:34 But then the Lord impressed on me, tell her about Jesus
04:41 How he was abandoned. How he was beaten up and He even called
04:46 on His Father, Where are You? Where are You?
04:50 And I can see when I started talkin about Jesus, cause
04:54 honestly when she's goin through lots of time in your ministry
04:59 you've got it in there, well you don't have it but the Spirit
05:02 gives you but I fell silent, I don't have anything
05:06 and the Spirit moved on me, tell them about Jesus
05:09 how He suffered and how even He called on His Father
05:13 and He felt like He was neglected, that His Father was
05:16 not answering. But He still reached out to His Father.
05:22 And so bringin people to Jesus bringin people who are tarnished
05:27 and showin 'em Jesus brings out because once I started tellin
05:31 about Jesus you could see her face is like the, whatever
05:35 protection she had, anger, it just started to drop slowly
05:40 even almost to tears. I think it's important to
05:44 always resemble the image of Christ as best as you can
05:49 Obviously we're not perfect but do your best because
05:53 like for me, for example, I grew up in Adventist home, grew up
05:58 great, everything was good, I was vegetarian, the works.
06:03 But one moment in time, an interaction between me and
06:06 my father completely made me reject God and become a Satanist
06:11 for 12 years. You know one time you're a teenager,
06:17 you're hormonal or so they say, it's studies but anyway
06:22 I was talking to them and everything and my dad
06:25 couldn't deal with because he was never taught to deal with
06:28 his emotions so he couldn't deal with mine
06:31 I love my dad to death, he's a great dad, he just, that one
06:34 point he couldn't deal with and so in front of my mom he said
06:37 I can't deal with the boy anymore, you deal with him
06:40 I felt so rejected that I completely said, ok I'm angry
06:46 I'm upset and one moment in time I just said, God, you're
06:51 not real because my dad hurt me. But they say you're real, so
06:56 if they say you're real then Satan must be real
07:01 I'm not getting what I want from you, initially I'm actually
07:04 transferring, projecting my anger toward rejection from
07:09 my dad to God and said I'm not getting what I want from you
07:14 so I'm going to get it from him
07:17 And it's interesting that the devil is ready
07:20 the devil's ready to give you what you want
07:23 What I got was 12 years of misery and pain
07:27 So, it's important that we as fathers resemble the image
07:32 of Christ, through thick and thin. No matter what happens
07:37 no matter how we feel, it's important because our children
07:42 depend on it, even their salvation depends on it
07:46 What do you think?
07:48 I do think you're right. A young man tells me a story
07:53 we're talking and he was saying in his home, he grew up in an
07:58 Adventist home there was so much abuse. No one knew it but they
08:03 were a model church family. And he grew up in that home
08:08 Left, went to college. Started in the ministry
08:15 But never dealt with the pain, never dealt with the abuse
08:20 never dealt with the rejection, you're no good, all the stuff
08:25 that his father did to him. End up pastoring
08:29 and in his pastoral ministry he ends up messing up
08:35 had to come out of the ministry because of what he did
08:41 all because of what happened when he was a child
08:45 It mars the image of God and sometimes we try to, you know
08:50 do things to Band-Aid our pain go into ministry, get all caught
08:55 up in work, workaholic and what happens to us?
09:00 Is that we begin to go down a different path.
09:05 So it's important, it's very important for us to keep God's
09:09 image in our home. Let our children see God's image
09:15 let them see that God is love, let them, we don't wanna kick
09:18 you can't kick a child and tell the child God loves you
09:21 You can't abuse a child and say God loves you
09:24 You know slap a child over the head and say God loves you
09:28 It means like what I talk about what I did. You know I regret
09:33 what I did to my son even if it was for one moment
09:38 But still you can't do that and expect that child to believe
09:44 that God loves them. I think that's the big problem we have
09:50 I've seen and I'm not a, I don't have a book on this or nothing
09:54 but there are two types of atheists that interact
09:59 There are atheists that are in denial, they don't believe in
10:03 the existence of God, it's not scientifically proven that there
10:07 is a God but there are atheists who don't believe or don't trust
10:12 God. The reason why I say that, I was workin in juvenile
10:16 residence home for mental health for those who had mental problem
10:21 abandoned, sociopaths, all the different, and I had a young man
10:25 there. He was just angry, he was upset. And a co-worker and I
10:31 were talking about God and he's like you guys need to be quiet
10:35 about this, I don't believe in no God
10:38 So I saw he was angry. I went into his room tried to talk with
10:43 him, what's wrong? how come you don't believe in God?
10:47 And it's not that he don't believe in the existence of God
10:53 but he doesn't believe that God is there for him
10:58 He said, I don't believe in God because
11:02 God took away my family. Took me away from my family
11:09 And so he connected that misfortune or whatever happened
11:15 he put the blame on God and said I don't believe in you
11:19 You're not this loving, pure person that people talk about
11:23 You're not this God that watches over, how could you watch over
11:26 everything? How could you say you're in control?
11:30 Just like you said, when they see bad going on in life
11:34 especially if it comes from their family
11:36 they project that to God
11:39 and say, Hey you're not real
11:43 You're not real
11:45 that's a struggle because my daughter you know, my 4 year old
11:50 she's loose with her mom but when she visits me and her
11:55 step mom and her new sister and being able to discipline
12:01 my 4-year old in such a way that it doesn't taint the image
12:06 of God in her eyes, because I'm her only example pretty much
12:10 it's a struggle. It's a struggle because you know you have to
12:15 lay down the law, God says you need to discipline your child
12:18 but at the same time we're not perfect, we don't have that
12:21 perfect discipline. How can I discipline my child
12:28 without tainting the image of God forever for her, you know
12:33 even though she's 4? She's relying on me as her dad
12:37 to see my spiritual walk, she mimics some of that
12:41 but I don't want her to ever be tainted
12:45 the image of God for her to be tainted because of something
12:48 I did. We're ministers and I know we go through that
12:53 we have to be able to discipline but at the same time
12:58 not turn our children into atheists. Or non-believers
13:01 or whatever you want to call it so how do we accomplish this
13:07 without being able to do that? With love. Because we can go
13:10 to the other extreme and not discipline but I think if we're
13:14 gonna discipline we have to do it with love.
13:17 It can't be with anger and hate but with love and they need to
13:22 understand that because we love them they're being corrected
13:26 because that's still within the boundaries of God because
13:30 whom the Lord loves He chastises
13:32 You know I'd rather my earthly father chastise me than my
13:36 Heavenly Father but it's still done with love.
13:40 I think love is the key.
13:43 I wonder if we did research on those who have different
13:50 religions, maybe raised in a Christian home
13:53 or God fearing home, I mean they have different religions
13:58 the religion that they chose had some connection
14:02 to their childhood. I mean like Deism where God is absent
14:08 He made but He's absent you know they chose that kinda path
14:13 because they once had a father but then he just became absent
14:19 whether because he's physically absent or emotionally absent
14:23 I believe that there's a link
14:26 between the paths in life that we choose, the faith we choose
14:30 and what happened at childhood what happened at the cradle?
14:34 what happened when we were teenagers, we choose a religious
14:38 path based on what happened there.
14:41 There is a link. Everything that links to childhood I believe
14:44 we always, how we've been raised in childhood, sometimes some
14:52 of us get stuck, right there at the age of abuse
14:57 that age of abandonment and we can't move forward
15:01 unless we have someone that's counseling us, someone that
15:04 encourages us like the pastor I was talkin about
15:07 he couldn't move forward unless he got counsel over 6 years
15:15 so there is that link. We some how make our decisions because
15:19 of what has happened to us in childhood
15:22 I think again of the importance of being the fathers that God
15:29 wants us to be not who society says we should be.
15:32 There's a big difference because society says one thing
15:36 and God says another. Sometimes I think we over complicate our
15:40 role as fathers simply because we're trying to combine societal
15:44 standards with God's standards. It's like oil and water,
15:48 you can't do that. Because society says be the provider
15:52 be the breadwinner. You know the wife stays home, yadda
15:56 But God says that's good and all but you also need to be the
16:00 priest of the home. You also need to set my example
16:04 in your home. The Bible says As for me and my house we will
16:10 serve the Lord. We need to live in such a way
16:16 I'm ok with being, in the sense of, we're sinful.
16:19 We're not perfect.
16:21 That happens ok, I've dealt with that reality
16:23 but the reality is that God seeks to change us
16:28 make us better day by day and we as fathers need to step up
16:34 our game and be closer to Christ each and every day that our
16:39 children may see our walk and not only partake of that
16:43 bread of life that we're eating from but also enjoy it
16:47 and learn what it is to walk with our Maker
16:51 So in calling the whole family to devotions in the morning
16:57 or in the evening, it's doing things like that
17:00 your child seeing you spending time in prayer
17:04 spending time reading the Word spending time living the example
17:11 exemplary life that they see, they can see Christ in you
17:15 My son said to me a few days ago You know Dad I can never live up
17:21 to your standards. I said you don't have to live up to my
17:24 standards, I don't want you to be. Because you spend so much
17:28 time in prayer, I don't think I can do that. Now I never knew
17:32 he was paying that keen attention
17:34 how much time I'll be in my office praying.
17:37 and I never knew that but he'd been watching and looking
17:41 and he said, Dad I don't think I can, I know you, you're always
17:47 you're always prayin and you spend so much time in devotion
17:50 I don't think I can get to that standard. And I said to him,
17:56 you can, it's going to take you time, it's your relationship
17:59 with God, but you can. The point I'm making is that
18:04 he was watching and I'll tell you something, my 19-year old
18:11 in the mornings he's in his own personal devotions
18:16 he's reading and he likes to sleep in late but he'll get up
18:21 and you're trying to rush him along but he's going to spend
18:25 time in his devotion and prayer. Where did he get that from?
18:29 He sees his father modeling that and I didn't even know he was
18:36 doing it, you know. I'm not tooting my horn here
18:40 I'm just making a point that we as fathers need to model Christ
18:45 to our children and when we model Christ to our children
18:48 they will grow to be better citizens.
18:51 they'll grow to be better church members, better Christians
18:56 What we practice and what we do at home is sometimes what
19:01 highlights in our kids' lives.
19:04 Just like you. If the kid knows that dad is a prayerful dad
19:10 that's my reference, that's my dad you know he's a praying man
19:15 If you're a drunkard, my dad is a drinker
19:21 so the things that we model or we do in our free time
19:26 or what's important to us that's the adjective our kid is going
19:30 to use, our children are going to use to describe us.
19:34 It's a struggle for me at times because I didn't have an example
19:39 of a God-fearing father. He was a church goer with my mom and
19:45 myself but that doesn't mean he was walking with Christ.
19:49 He is now by the grace of God but for me when I got married
19:54 to my wife and we had a baby and you know my 4-year old
20:00 of course is part of the family she looked to me to be that
20:04 leader, spiritual leader and I'm like I don't know how
20:08 Nobody ever taught it to me.
20:10 I don't know how. And God revealed to me that you worry
20:16 too much, it's a mustard seed that you need
20:19 All you need is a mustard seed cause I know what you're talkin
20:23 about Gordon because I got mentored by other pastors
20:27 who have been in the faith for a long time
20:29 and I see them how they are and I wanted that
20:32 and I thought how can I reach that?
20:35 And I haven't reached yet. But my wife, a God-fearing woman
20:40 prayed with me and prayed for me and continues to do so
20:43 that I may be the man and the leader that God wants me to be
20:46 because I haven't arrived yet but discouragement is at
20:51 every quarter and I don't let myself get discouraged
20:55 All I do is say, mustard seed, to myself, mustard seed
21:00 that's all I need to be a good father to my children
21:04 to be a good husband, to be the man of God
21:07 that I'm called to be
21:08 I read a statement that changed my life
21:14 my marriage, my home, everything it revolutionized
21:18 The statement said: The role of the priest is to pray for and
21:25 intercede for the congregation or for the people
21:31 and the father's role as priest is to intercede for his children
21:37 Pray for them, ask God to forgive their sins
21:42 known as well as unknown, and I'm telling you that changed
21:48 my life. So my prayer time I'm interceding for my children
21:52 I'm interceding for my family
21:55 Taking them to the Throne of Grace and I'm leaving them there
21:59 because I know that that's the only way they're going to find
22:04 success in life. I understand that role and that's the only
22:08 way I think we can recreate the image of God in the eyes
22:15 of our children.
22:18 You're on it. He's on it. Because we read Bible as
22:25 especially whatever background we have, interpretation of Bible
22:30 and we like to get pumped up when we read
22:34 the man is the head of the house, you know
22:38 we really get our chests high on that and we think, Ok God
22:42 is saying for us to be CEOs or dictators or presidents of our
22:47 homes, but in the main reference most of the time,
22:52 no actually all the time you are the priest of the house
22:58 And you know what that means. yeah and when we look at the
23:01 sanctuary and the role of the priest as he said
23:04 the role of the priest is always to restore
23:08 restore these people to God
23:11 restore them to God
23:13 Christ is our High Priest, yes but in our families
23:17 He said, you are the priest man It's interesting and I'm not
23:21 trying to be one-sided or be controversial here
23:24 but I notice Jesus said, when they came, his mother and
23:29 his brothers came looking for Him, when the Pharisees got them
23:33 hey this guy is starting a ruckus over here
23:35 you know, put him in check. Jesus said, who is my mother
23:42 my brother, my sisters. He says those who do the will of God
23:46 they are my mother, my brothers and my sisters.
23:50 Notice He didn't say they're my father
23:55 Notice that. He didn't say they're my father because He
23:59 knew who His Father was.
24:04 He knew who His Father was, so I ask fathers, do you know who
24:09 your real father is? I'm not talking about biological
24:14 I'm not talking about adopted
24:18 step or whatever it is, I'm talking about your real father
24:24 Turn to Romans 8. Those who have accepted Jesus Christ
24:29 as Lord and Savior are now adopted and called
24:35 look, look the way he put it, it's Abba and father
24:39 personally, daddy. You can call Him daddy
24:44 You know what daddy is. When a child falls, Daddy, Daddy
24:49 Personal. And father is, that's my father. You can be proud
24:55 of it, that's my father over there.
24:57 So one is personal and one is authoritative. That's my father
25:01 over there and so we can call Him Father and so fathers
25:05 could call him and say, Hey I have a father
25:08 Yes my biological father made mistakes, or he wasn't there
25:12 but I have a father, I have an example and now I need to be
25:16 the priest at my home. What He's done to me
25:19 I need to show now to my family
25:23 I think too you know, thinking about 1 Timothy 5:8
25:26 can't recall now every little detail but I also think about
25:29 the fact that what would the Trinity look like without the
25:33 Father. If we place that much importance into our homes
25:40 of being a father, a Christian good father towards children
25:46 you know the way God the Father loves not just His Son but
25:52 everybody, it will be stronger homes. I think we will have
25:56 strong homes and the importance of it can't be emphasized enough
26:05 1 Timothy 5 reference that you quoted, if that father is not
26:10 take care of his household, he's worse than an infidel
26:15 So part of taking care of your household is to restore and to
26:23 keep God's image in front of them. Just praying for them
26:27 Praying for your children. Doing what you can
26:31 to show them how much you love them
26:33 all of those things, and working financially, there's a whole
26:38 whole package has to be there
26:41 But you can't say, you know what I give up on this or I
26:45 not gonna do, Bible says you're worse than an infidel
26:48 Not even an infidel, you're worse than
26:51 I think, I don't know we'll make sure you're right. I think it's
26:54 1 Timothy 4:8, if I'm not mistaken
26:58 wait till we get to our Bibles fathers, but anyway
27:00 wait till we get to our Bibles but it's and look at the
27:05 reference, it says if you're not taking care of your children
27:10 or those of your own, doesn't say children, your own
27:13 and then especially those in your house
27:16 1 Timothy 5:8. Thank you. See that's why he's the father
27:20 figure in this room. Hahaha. That's why he's the father
27:23 figure in this room. May we keep on going but
27:26 we're running out of time. So next time we gotta pick this
27:28 up again though we definitely do And for the viewers out there
27:32 thank you for joining us today. If you have any questions
27:35 comments, concerns, email us AFH@3ABN.ORG
27:41 AFH@3ABN.ORG We cannot live without a
27:45 with a Fatherless Trinity. We cannot live in this way
27:49 and fathers out there, it's hard to be an example
27:54 of God but it's not impossible With God all things are possible
27:58 Thank you for watching


Revised 2017-01-09