A Father's Heart

Caught in the Middle: How to Help Your Child

Three Angels Broadcasting Network

Program transcript

Participants: Xavier Morales (Host), Gordon Fraser, Denry White


Series Code: AFH

Program Code: AFH000008A

00:01 A good father takes time to play
00:05 He has strong integrity
00:07 He is someone that is truly dedicated
00:12 He is not afraid to show his love
00:16 He is a caring provider
00:19 And, he is a kind spiritual leader.
00:22 These are just a few ways to describe a father's heart
00:29 Hi, welcome to A Father's Heart. My name is Xavier and I'll be
00:32 your host today. And we're talking about a topic today
00:35 that most people don't talk about or don't even know
00:37 anything about it. It is called Into the Womb
00:39 A father's connection starts from the very beginning
00:43 from the very early stages of the baby being formed
00:47 And today, to talk about that with me is Denry and Gordon
00:51 Welcome guys, how're you doing today?
00:53 Doing well, doing well. Thanks for having us once again man
00:56 Hey, no problem. So most people don't know and I learned
01:00 about this while I was in seminary that a connection
01:03 a father has with a child actually starts from the very
01:07 beginning, from the womb, inside.
01:10 Most, most parents, most fathers think that their connection
01:13 is developed after the baby is born and they're there, you know
01:17 everything else but actually what's called in-utero rejection
01:21 happens from the womb. A rejection from the father
01:25 happens from the womb. What do you guys know about that?
01:33 We would like to say ok, yeah it just starts you know from
01:37 the first time you change the diaper. That's the first time
01:40 you bond but you are right cause even Jeremiah talks about it
01:43 before you were formed, chapter 1, God knew us
01:48 So there was some interaction before the beginning
01:52 Now that's God, spiritual level, of course
01:55 you know thousands of years before we were even made
01:59 He already had a plan for us but I've read from articles
02:04 when we were having our first child one of the things they're
02:07 saying for fathers to talk to the child in the womb.
02:11 The child always hears the mother, even experiences the
02:14 mother's emotions. But talk to the child. When you talk to the
02:20 child they hear this, you know most men, most of us have this
02:23 bass voice so you hear that boom, boom whatever they hear
02:27 in there and so they live for a certain connection. They already
02:31 start, there's a difference between mom's voice
02:35 and there's a difference between yours
02:37 So there's value and importance in starting before birth
02:43 Your rejection, it causes a child to, according to some
02:47 studies to grow up to be alcoholic.
02:50 It causes a lot of problems when the child is not, the bond is
02:55 begun in the womb with the father. And so it leads to a
03:00 whole lot of problems and that's one reason for me I used to talk
03:06 I had great pleasure in just talking to my son and daughter
03:10 I put my mouth on my wife's tummy and just singing to them
03:16 cause I wanted them to be singers so I was singing
03:21 I sang to them and we played music, it's very important to
03:25 for that connection to start.
03:27 And I think that's a good topic an area I need to search more
03:31 because we're not familiar with any in-utero rejection
03:35 we're not familiar with, because who studies that you know
03:38 we know it's an egg, it's in there and it grows into a baby
03:43 but we're taught that fathers play with the kids, don't really
03:46 talk to the kids that much. For me it was different you know
03:50 my 4-year old, I never got the pleasure of being there for the
03:54 growth, for her first kick in the womb, anything like that, I
03:58 through series of circumstances the divorce happened before
04:03 I was able to be there and I resented that.
04:08 And my wife now, when we had our baby I thought it was weird
04:12 I'm like I'm talking to this child who probably has no ears
04:18 it's just a pile of ooze in the womb but I kept thinking about
04:22 you know, the bonding process and as our child grew in the
04:27 womb I started talking to her more and when she started
04:30 getting all reckless and then you know it seems like the kids
04:33 like to throw a party in the womb at night, they're not
04:36 asleep and they just want to party on and kick and do all
04:39 kinds of crazy, keeping mom awake
04:41 so I started talking to her in the womb and pretty soon the
04:46 kicking stopped. You know there is something to it cause it goes
04:48 along not with just your voice, obviously your walk with God
04:52 and so like you said, the connection you're building
04:55 you know the deep voice, it just brings peace and then I've seen
05:00 the after effect when she came out of the womb, she smiled
05:04 every time automatically she knows my voice. It's like
05:07 reminds me of where Jesus says my sheep know my voice
05:10 and they follow me. The child gets to know the father's voice
05:14 something beautiful that happens You know for me personally
05:19 and two sides, when I was uh, my, our second child
05:24 I even realized similar to what you're saying about the movement
05:29 when he started kicking and even when he was almost 9 months
05:35 when you can just see every movement they make
05:38 I would literally play this game you know I would go on one side
05:43 and talk and he would literally move over to that side, even
05:49 with my daughter too when she was in the womb like they would
05:52 move towards the voice. I'd go on this side and they would move
05:58 to the voice so there is that bond and a connection. They even
06:01 start playing with you even before they come out
06:06 It's a beautiful bond. And it's real
06:11 I would come home and soon as I walk in the door my wife's
06:16 there and I say hi and go and hug her or something and the
06:20 child would just be moving happy that daddy is here
06:25 Both of mine did this so I know there's something that is very
06:29 important with making that connection early even when the
06:33 child comes out so the child recognizes the voice, recognizes
06:36 that the father is there so it's an important thing.
06:39 Now I said two examples, first example is more fun loving
06:45 because that's me now after God's grace came into my life
06:50 you know, towards my pregnant wife. But my story according to
06:57 my mother's report it wasn't so. And this is why I'm an advocate
07:04 and a support for young men and young ladies to wait until
07:08 they're married so you can have that home, that nest for your
07:16 child. My situation we were raised in a conservative home
07:22 my grandmother was the founder of a church and my mother became
07:30 pregnant. They didn't talk about sex in the home because
07:34 it was just not a topic to talk about.
07:38 And so my mother learned the hard way.
07:40 By experiencing it. She became pregnant.
07:44 Now your mother's the founder of a church how do you go and tell
07:48 others, Oh I'm pregnant at 19 years old.
07:51 And so my mother, based on her story and the stories of my aunt
07:56 and everyone, she hid the pregnancy a long time
08:01 And then when I got a little bit big she even sometimes tried
08:04 I love my mother, I love her, I love her. She tried to do
08:10 things to kind of abort, a natural abortion
08:15 because of the shame when you're in such a strict environment
08:20 the shame that you get. Come on a lot of times some churches or
08:25 some cultures or whatever you get pregnant out of wedlock
08:29 you get disfellowshipped, not even just that you gonna get
08:33 scorned for the rest of your life, your kid is going to be
08:36 called names and so she was afraid of that. And so because
08:41 she was afraid of that, even like, I was talking to
08:44 psychologists, I had to talk to a counselor about it cause
08:46 I had some rejection issues between my wife and I
08:48 you know I was like Babe I like a hug, why are you always needy
08:53 she would say to me. Why are you so needy? And we had marital
08:56 counseling and the psychologist would bring it out
09:00 ask me these questions like How was your childhood?
09:03 From what you knew? I wasn't born in, I explained based on
09:06 the story that they told me. Because of the rejection
09:09 then dad wasn't around, so there was no base
09:13 there was no comforting voice at night time. There was no one
09:18 to say Oh little one is ok
09:21 And so my wife and I, we have, I have rejection issues.
09:25 I always feel like Oh I'm not wanted
09:29 And so because of my experience in the womb
09:33 and then when she finally told my grandmother after months
09:40 it was like a relief for her but yet at the same time she was
09:44 like, ok what am I going to do?
09:46 How am I going to take care of this child?
09:49 By myself and all. So it's a stress that now I have
09:56 from a situation that I was not even involved in.
10:01 I didn't even start because it was not in a positive, spiritual
10:09 loving, nurturing, just like an egg you know
10:14 chickens have eggs all the time and birds have eggs but if the
10:17 egg is in the nest it's more likely to what? survive
10:21 and become a bird. But if the egg is in the refrigerator
10:27 it's done before it even had a chance
10:30 And so some of these kids unfortunately
10:35 are done before they have a chance. But thank God
10:39 for Jesus Christ that even a frozen egg like who I was
10:45 He brought life out of that
10:49 If your father and mother forsake you the Lord will
10:51 take care of you, yeah
10:53 I think about that because I don't, I can't even think about
10:57 why anybody would want to miss those moments
11:01 Moments that you never get back Yes you may go out and have sex
11:05 with a bunch of women and have kids by a bunch of women
11:08 but you don't get to live and cherish the first kick
11:12 The first time you hear the heart beat
11:14 and now you're just breeding for breeding's sake
11:18 You're sending out innocent lives for no reason
11:21 and you know it does happen and there's people that are
11:26 born out of wedlock and that's why again I agree with you
11:29 Denry there's such an importance behind being married and having
11:33 sexual relations and there's such an importance that the
11:36 father, even though culturally, societally may portray
11:40 differently, there's an importance as to the father
11:43 what they play in the birth process, in the creation process
11:48 essentially. You know we've been given a gift.
11:50 Only God is the creator and yet He chose to impart part of His
11:56 ability with us by allowing us to reproduce, procreate
12:04 and be able to bring it to this world a life, human life
12:09 That is not something to be taken lightly
12:12 And in-utero rejection, when you reject your child from the womb
12:16 as you said you know, it just sends a shock wave
12:20 that may not be seen then but it will be seen in the future
12:24 Psychologists are studying that a lot more now, a lot more than
12:27 they were before because there's traits and inhabits and things
12:32 that they do that they don't know where it comes from
12:34 they don't know what they do to cope. There's just little things
12:38 that unconsciously they're doing that they have no idea
12:40 as to why and the answer is, in the very beginning, the very
12:45 beginning because we play such a vital role in the growth
12:49 process and in their cognitive development from the womb
12:55 that's why I don't agree with abortion, it's life.
13:00 It's life. There's life. And we're murdering these kids
13:04 simply because we don't want to take responsibility
13:08 and we reject them and either let them grow
13:11 or just reject them and have them killed
13:14 I don't think we get the magnitude and the, like I said
13:18 the only thing I can refer to is Jeremiah 1
13:22 God had to let Jeremiah know this thing you and I started
13:28 in the womb. For me it started before the womb
13:32 but you didn't start to get a life until like you said
13:34 in the womb. It started there. And sometimes rejection
13:40 if the father is not there or whatever, but I can
13:44 only imagine the environment where a woman is being
13:47 in a domestic violence situation
13:50 and she's pregnant with your child
13:54 and you are abusing her
13:58 and if you don't mind me getting graphic, dragging her outside
14:02 you know, kicking her, all these situations
14:05 and the child is in there
14:09 sometimes we create monsters because of this
14:12 because of the environment just as the mother feeds the child
14:16 while the child is in the womb
14:17 and the child gets the nourishment
14:19 if the environment also affects the child. I had a client
14:25 where the environment did affect the child
14:27 he became very, he always had anger and rage
14:30 even as a child and all this come to find out
14:33 in the background, his mother was abused by the father
14:39 while she was pregnant with him
14:42 So even in this environment in the womb
14:45 all he knew was violence
14:48 So if we're not cautious of how we take care of ministering to
14:53 to these children while they're in the womb
14:55 we could make the next monster, the next serial killer
14:59 before they even get a chance
15:02 but Thank God, once again, for Jesus Christ
15:06 for He can take a monster out of the womb
15:09 and make that monster into His servant, into a fisher of men
15:14 into someone who tastes grace
15:18 Look at how many things have happened, the great things in
15:23 the Bible. I think about David who said he was shaped in
15:27 iniquity. He knew from the womb he was shaped in iniquity
15:31 yet he was called a man after God's own heart.
15:36 Yes. I think about Jesus and the way He was born
15:39 what if, essentially His step father, what if Joseph
15:45 had rejected Him even though He had the connection with
15:49 God the Father, what would have happened?
15:51 You know a lot of times, the rejection again sends a ripple
15:56 effect you know through the ages, through birth, through
16:00 all the way up until adulthood they just don't act right
16:05 and they don't know why. And I remember again in the seminary
16:09 particular professor who taught with his wife, she's the one
16:12 that talked about it. She's the one that felt the rejection
16:16 and she explained how she felt it obviously not in the womb
16:21 but she felt it as an adult. And she couldn't explain as to
16:24 why she was reacting to certain things the way she was
16:27 Certain trigger points were making her angry
16:29 And she found out through asking the parents, asking
16:35 and asking and she found out why Why she was acting the way
16:40 she was because she was rejected from the womb. You know there's
16:45 a lot of things that go into play psychologically
16:48 and spiritually because God never rejects us
16:52 even though the world may but He never does
16:56 He formed us just the way we are there's people out there that
17:01 might be you know have different things as far as deformities
17:05 but He formed us and sometimes we look too much to the exterior
17:10 and not focus on the internal. And, as a father, I focus a lot
17:16 on my daughters wellbeing from inside out.
17:19 Because the exterior will change God forbid, accidents and things
17:23 of that nature but internally I really dedicate a lot of time
17:27 to my new born when she was in the womb, dedicated a lot of
17:31 time talking to her even though it didn't quite make sense
17:34 because it's a baby or not even, as a fetus or whatever you want
17:38 to call it. It's a baby, it's a child but it's a life
17:40 And I talked, and I spoke and I just didn't make any sense
17:44 until after she was born you see that connection developing
17:47 the beauty of it, it's like, I remember I was singing a song
17:52 about God's greatness to her she was falling asleep and I
17:56 started crying because there's such beauty, God's creation
18:01 not because she's my daughter but because this is a life
18:07 this is a life, from an egg, from nothing, from molecules
18:13 into a human being with arms and legs. How can anybody
18:18 have the heart to reject a child from the womb?
18:22 It just does not compute in my head.
18:25 It maybe because they were rejected. What I hear you say is
18:30 that we should, you start the process, you finish the process.
18:36 Havin a child is not just start it and then that's it
18:41 and again that's why it's important to be married
18:45 in a marital relationship so you can conceive in that
18:51 relationship not like what you were saying with you mom
18:56 Unfortunately that's where we need to educate our young men
19:02 This is serious because it messes up an entire generation
19:07 So if you're gonna start the process start it right
19:12 get married, do it right so you're there. You can come home
19:16 you can touch the stomach and all that stuff and talk to the
19:23 child. And so you can be there when the child is born
19:28 the entire process so the child I mean I enjoyed the fact
19:33 that I was there from the beginning
19:35 and I'll be there to the end by God's grace
19:39 And my daughter, we had a song I would come and I would sing
19:44 Butterfly Kisses to her in the womb. It was the most joyful
19:49 time in life. My son you know I had a song that I would sing
19:54 to him so I would run home from work just to get there
20:00 to spend that quality time when my wife was pregnant
20:04 and after the birth. It was important to me and I think
20:10 it should be important to every man out there to be there
20:15 from the beginning so that that child is whole
20:19 And even how you talk to the mother in the process
20:22 Oh yes. You know I remember my wife, she said rub this oil
20:27 coconut oil or whatever it was for my stretch marks and I was
20:30 like, you can do it yourself it's all good, like
20:34 I don't want to touch the baby but you know what, wait
20:38 that touch, not only are you bonding with your wife but
20:41 you're bonding with her, it's like, dare I say something like
20:44 an example of God's Trinity. Spiritual. Bonding
20:47 Three. So when people have quadruplets and everything
20:51 but I'm just using my example that bonding time with your wife
20:54 affects your child because they know, they feel. What they can't
20:59 they feel. Whatever the mother feels, they feel
21:02 If the mother's stressed, they're stressed
21:04 It's an amazing thing what God has given us the privilege to
21:08 doing like Gordon, like you said we've been talking about
21:10 there's such an importance to waiting until you get married
21:15 because you cannot throw this in the garbage can
21:18 like a lot of parents do to their kids, literally
21:21 not theoretically, literally.
21:23 We have to really hone in on the fact that sex is for married
21:29 people and the process of birth is a God given gift.
21:35 WE have no right, no right. We have the right to die
21:39 for our sin but God not only redeemed us through Jesus
21:44 but He's given us the ability to partake in the creation
21:48 process by procreating.
21:50 Not only is sex a gift between a husband and his wife
21:57 but it's also holy between a husband and his wife
22:02 You know Paul talks in Corinthians that our parts
22:06 belong to Christ and when we connect them to an harlot or
22:11 someone who's not our spouse it's an offense to Him
22:16 So if you want your child to be blessed in a holy home
22:22 do God's plan. Not Plan B, not Plan C or nothing else
22:28 God's plan because God knows what He's talking about
22:32 so you won't have these rejection issues
22:35 so you don't have these dramas so you don't have these
22:38 all these things if you do it the way God has designed it
22:45 now when the child comes in, the picture it's a blessing
22:50 there's a special, unique blessing
22:52 You know I came from, like I said, my background, most people
22:55 from my background were from you know either extra marital
22:58 affairs, unfortunately or single parents.
23:04 And so God put it in my heart
23:08 I need you even though you're
23:11 the youngest I need you to set this new legacy
23:17 to establish this legacy of holiness
23:23 I want you to marry this young lady
23:27 not have sex with her until you're married
23:32 and we waited until we were married
23:35 and then we got married and years later we had a beautiful
23:40 child. And now we have three
23:45 They know who their father is
23:48 I pick up the phone right now, I talk to the boys, I talk to
23:51 my daughter. Yes, of course, your daddy wants to talk to you
23:54 They know my voice. They know who their mother is
23:59 There's no rejection issue, why? Because we're invested in them
24:05 We know this is an investment, not for life, for eternity
24:12 And remember in the holiness the body is the temple
24:17 I mean that child is in a holy place
24:24 That's how serious this thing is that child is in a holy place
24:27 and so you don't desecrate the temple by having sex
24:32 out of wedlock. That's why we need to understand
24:37 when we get it out to all men out there and not only that
24:43 Because some people say, well I got married but then
24:48 look what happened. He just left. You gotta be careful who
24:52 you get married to. Mercy. Remember what happened to Saul
24:57 See we haven't been delicate lately with holy things
25:04 We need to be delicate with holy things
25:07 And sex is a holy thing
25:10 And that's only between a husband and his wife
25:15 not a husband and a wife
25:17 or girlfriend or anything but a husband and I'm specifically
25:22 saying a male husband and his female wife
25:26 Yes. It's a holy thing and God blesses, blesses it
25:32 Remember with Saul, when Saul went ahead and made a sacrifice
25:37 that only a priest was supposed to do
25:39 He was rejected. I mean we look at David's record and David
25:44 did a lot of things but when Saul did that
25:49 was like a slap in God's face
25:53 because that was a holy thing only a priest was supposed to do
25:58 and so when you, as a man or a woman say, you know, I'm gonna
26:02 take something that is holy because I have feelings and
26:06 I have emotions and I have wants and I'm gonna get satisfaction
26:13 from this, you know you're desecrating a holy thing
26:18 and God is not mocked
26:20 It's interesting that we're talking about this because
26:23 all three of us didn't come to this conclusion because we
26:27 we followed straight in the paths of our lives you know
26:30 we all come from crazy backgrounds
26:34 and just picked up the phone accepting the call to ministry
26:37 and we learned what we have today through bumps and bruises
26:42 and really being submissive to God
26:46 What do you think Gordon?
26:48 I think submission to God is an important part of the whole
26:51 process, cause if we submit to God, God is going to lead and
26:54 He's going to direct your life.
26:56 If you're not submissive to God then you're going to be
27:00 doing, you're going to do your own thing and you're gonna make
27:03 all kinds of mistakes. We make mistakes when we're submitted
27:06 to God, we still make mistakes cause we live in a sinful world
27:10 and we are sinful. The Bible says no one is without sin
27:15 but understanding and recognizing that when you're
27:18 submitted to God, God is going to direct your path
27:23 And I think that's the important thing
27:24 and you're gonna make right decisions.
27:26 Thank you guys and man, again we ran out of time
27:29 but we'll talk about this some more, so
27:32 for the viewers out there, I know it's tough
27:37 if you have any questions, please send it in
27:39 to AFH@3ABN.ORG
27:43 AFH@3ABN.ORG
27:46 Now, what I want to leave you with is this
27:48 Even though the ideal thing is to be married
27:53 to have sex and have kids
27:55 for those of you that have made error or whatever the reason
27:59 might be, please do not dismiss your kids
28:02 the connection starts from birth
28:05 If you're man enough to go and have sex
28:08 be man enough to be in it from beginning to end
28:11 Thank you


Revised 2017-01-10