Participants: Xavier Morales (Host), Gordon Fraser, Denry White
Series Code: AFH
Program Code: AFH000008A
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00:01 A good father takes time to play
00:05 He has strong integrity 00:07 He is someone that is truly dedicated 00:12 He is not afraid to show his love 00:16 He is a caring provider 00:19 And, he is a kind spiritual leader. 00:22 These are just a few ways to describe a father's heart 00:29 Hi, welcome to A Father's Heart. My name is Xavier and I'll be 00:32 your host today. And we're talking about a topic today 00:35 that most people don't talk about or don't even know 00:37 anything about it. It is called Into the Womb 00:39 A father's connection starts from the very beginning 00:43 from the very early stages of the baby being formed 00:47 And today, to talk about that with me is Denry and Gordon 00:51 Welcome guys, how're you doing today? 00:53 Doing well, doing well. Thanks for having us once again man 00:56 Hey, no problem. So most people don't know and I learned 01:00 about this while I was in seminary that a connection 01:03 a father has with a child actually starts from the very 01:07 beginning, from the womb, inside. 01:10 Most, most parents, most fathers think that their connection 01:13 is developed after the baby is born and they're there, you know 01:17 everything else but actually what's called in-utero rejection 01:21 happens from the womb. A rejection from the father 01:25 happens from the womb. What do you guys know about that? 01:33 We would like to say ok, yeah it just starts you know from 01:37 the first time you change the diaper. That's the first time 01:40 you bond but you are right cause even Jeremiah talks about it 01:43 before you were formed, chapter 1, God knew us 01:48 So there was some interaction before the beginning 01:52 Now that's God, spiritual level, of course 01:55 you know thousands of years before we were even made 01:59 He already had a plan for us but I've read from articles 02:04 when we were having our first child one of the things they're 02:07 saying for fathers to talk to the child in the womb. 02:11 The child always hears the mother, even experiences the 02:14 mother's emotions. But talk to the child. When you talk to the 02:20 child they hear this, you know most men, most of us have this 02:23 bass voice so you hear that boom, boom whatever they hear 02:27 in there and so they live for a certain connection. They already 02:31 start, there's a difference between mom's voice 02:35 and there's a difference between yours 02:37 So there's value and importance in starting before birth 02:43 Your rejection, it causes a child to, according to some 02:47 studies to grow up to be alcoholic. 02:50 It causes a lot of problems when the child is not, the bond is 02:55 begun in the womb with the father. And so it leads to a 03:00 whole lot of problems and that's one reason for me I used to talk 03:06 I had great pleasure in just talking to my son and daughter 03:10 I put my mouth on my wife's tummy and just singing to them 03:16 cause I wanted them to be singers so I was singing 03:21 I sang to them and we played music, it's very important to 03:25 for that connection to start. 03:27 And I think that's a good topic an area I need to search more 03:31 because we're not familiar with any in-utero rejection 03:35 we're not familiar with, because who studies that you know 03:38 we know it's an egg, it's in there and it grows into a baby 03:43 but we're taught that fathers play with the kids, don't really 03:46 talk to the kids that much. For me it was different you know 03:50 my 4-year old, I never got the pleasure of being there for the 03:54 growth, for her first kick in the womb, anything like that, I 03:58 through series of circumstances the divorce happened before 04:03 I was able to be there and I resented that. 04:08 And my wife now, when we had our baby I thought it was weird 04:12 I'm like I'm talking to this child who probably has no ears 04:18 it's just a pile of ooze in the womb but I kept thinking about 04:22 you know, the bonding process and as our child grew in the 04:27 womb I started talking to her more and when she started 04:30 getting all reckless and then you know it seems like the kids 04:33 like to throw a party in the womb at night, they're not 04:36 asleep and they just want to party on and kick and do all 04:39 kinds of crazy, keeping mom awake 04:41 so I started talking to her in the womb and pretty soon the 04:46 kicking stopped. You know there is something to it cause it goes 04:48 along not with just your voice, obviously your walk with God 04:52 and so like you said, the connection you're building 04:55 you know the deep voice, it just brings peace and then I've seen 05:00 the after effect when she came out of the womb, she smiled 05:04 every time automatically she knows my voice. It's like 05:07 reminds me of where Jesus says my sheep know my voice 05:10 and they follow me. The child gets to know the father's voice 05:14 something beautiful that happens You know for me personally 05:19 and two sides, when I was uh, my, our second child 05:24 I even realized similar to what you're saying about the movement 05:29 when he started kicking and even when he was almost 9 months 05:35 when you can just see every movement they make 05:38 I would literally play this game you know I would go on one side 05:43 and talk and he would literally move over to that side, even 05:49 with my daughter too when she was in the womb like they would 05:52 move towards the voice. I'd go on this side and they would move 05:58 to the voice so there is that bond and a connection. They even 06:01 start playing with you even before they come out 06:06 It's a beautiful bond. And it's real 06:11 I would come home and soon as I walk in the door my wife's 06:16 there and I say hi and go and hug her or something and the 06:20 child would just be moving happy that daddy is here 06:25 Both of mine did this so I know there's something that is very 06:29 important with making that connection early even when the 06:33 child comes out so the child recognizes the voice, recognizes 06:36 that the father is there so it's an important thing. 06:39 Now I said two examples, first example is more fun loving 06:45 because that's me now after God's grace came into my life 06:50 you know, towards my pregnant wife. But my story according to 06:57 my mother's report it wasn't so. And this is why I'm an advocate 07:04 and a support for young men and young ladies to wait until 07:08 they're married so you can have that home, that nest for your 07:16 child. My situation we were raised in a conservative home 07:22 my grandmother was the founder of a church and my mother became 07:30 pregnant. They didn't talk about sex in the home because 07:34 it was just not a topic to talk about. 07:38 And so my mother learned the hard way. 07:40 By experiencing it. She became pregnant. 07:44 Now your mother's the founder of a church how do you go and tell 07:48 others, Oh I'm pregnant at 19 years old. 07:51 And so my mother, based on her story and the stories of my aunt 07:56 and everyone, she hid the pregnancy a long time 08:01 And then when I got a little bit big she even sometimes tried 08:04 I love my mother, I love her, I love her. She tried to do 08:10 things to kind of abort, a natural abortion 08:15 because of the shame when you're in such a strict environment 08:20 the shame that you get. Come on a lot of times some churches or 08:25 some cultures or whatever you get pregnant out of wedlock 08:29 you get disfellowshipped, not even just that you gonna get 08:33 scorned for the rest of your life, your kid is going to be 08:36 called names and so she was afraid of that. And so because 08:41 she was afraid of that, even like, I was talking to 08:44 psychologists, I had to talk to a counselor about it cause 08:46 I had some rejection issues between my wife and I 08:48 you know I was like Babe I like a hug, why are you always needy 08:53 she would say to me. Why are you so needy? And we had marital 08:56 counseling and the psychologist would bring it out 09:00 ask me these questions like How was your childhood? 09:03 From what you knew? I wasn't born in, I explained based on 09:06 the story that they told me. Because of the rejection 09:09 then dad wasn't around, so there was no base 09:13 there was no comforting voice at night time. There was no one 09:18 to say Oh little one is ok 09:21 And so my wife and I, we have, I have rejection issues. 09:25 I always feel like Oh I'm not wanted 09:29 And so because of my experience in the womb 09:33 and then when she finally told my grandmother after months 09:40 it was like a relief for her but yet at the same time she was 09:44 like, ok what am I going to do? 09:46 How am I going to take care of this child? 09:49 By myself and all. So it's a stress that now I have 09:56 from a situation that I was not even involved in. 10:01 I didn't even start because it was not in a positive, spiritual 10:09 loving, nurturing, just like an egg you know 10:14 chickens have eggs all the time and birds have eggs but if the 10:17 egg is in the nest it's more likely to what? survive 10:21 and become a bird. But if the egg is in the refrigerator 10:27 it's done before it even had a chance 10:30 And so some of these kids unfortunately 10:35 are done before they have a chance. But thank God 10:39 for Jesus Christ that even a frozen egg like who I was 10:45 He brought life out of that 10:49 If your father and mother forsake you the Lord will 10:51 take care of you, yeah 10:53 I think about that because I don't, I can't even think about 10:57 why anybody would want to miss those moments 11:01 Moments that you never get back Yes you may go out and have sex 11:05 with a bunch of women and have kids by a bunch of women 11:08 but you don't get to live and cherish the first kick 11:12 The first time you hear the heart beat 11:14 and now you're just breeding for breeding's sake 11:18 You're sending out innocent lives for no reason 11:21 and you know it does happen and there's people that are 11:26 born out of wedlock and that's why again I agree with you 11:29 Denry there's such an importance behind being married and having 11:33 sexual relations and there's such an importance that the 11:36 father, even though culturally, societally may portray 11:40 differently, there's an importance as to the father 11:43 what they play in the birth process, in the creation process 11:48 essentially. You know we've been given a gift. 11:50 Only God is the creator and yet He chose to impart part of His 11:56 ability with us by allowing us to reproduce, procreate 12:04 and be able to bring it to this world a life, human life 12:09 That is not something to be taken lightly 12:12 And in-utero rejection, when you reject your child from the womb 12:16 as you said you know, it just sends a shock wave 12:20 that may not be seen then but it will be seen in the future 12:24 Psychologists are studying that a lot more now, a lot more than 12:27 they were before because there's traits and inhabits and things 12:32 that they do that they don't know where it comes from 12:34 they don't know what they do to cope. There's just little things 12:38 that unconsciously they're doing that they have no idea 12:40 as to why and the answer is, in the very beginning, the very 12:45 beginning because we play such a vital role in the growth 12:49 process and in their cognitive development from the womb 12:55 that's why I don't agree with abortion, it's life. 13:00 It's life. There's life. And we're murdering these kids 13:04 simply because we don't want to take responsibility 13:08 and we reject them and either let them grow 13:11 or just reject them and have them killed 13:14 I don't think we get the magnitude and the, like I said 13:18 the only thing I can refer to is Jeremiah 1 13:22 God had to let Jeremiah know this thing you and I started 13:28 in the womb. For me it started before the womb 13:32 but you didn't start to get a life until like you said 13:34 in the womb. It started there. And sometimes rejection 13:40 if the father is not there or whatever, but I can 13:44 only imagine the environment where a woman is being 13:47 in a domestic violence situation 13:50 and she's pregnant with your child 13:54 and you are abusing her 13:58 and if you don't mind me getting graphic, dragging her outside 14:02 you know, kicking her, all these situations 14:05 and the child is in there 14:09 sometimes we create monsters because of this 14:12 because of the environment just as the mother feeds the child 14:16 while the child is in the womb 14:17 and the child gets the nourishment 14:19 if the environment also affects the child. I had a client 14:25 where the environment did affect the child 14:27 he became very, he always had anger and rage 14:30 even as a child and all this come to find out 14:33 in the background, his mother was abused by the father 14:39 while she was pregnant with him 14:42 So even in this environment in the womb 14:45 all he knew was violence 14:48 So if we're not cautious of how we take care of ministering to 14:53 to these children while they're in the womb 14:55 we could make the next monster, the next serial killer 14:59 before they even get a chance 15:02 but Thank God, once again, for Jesus Christ 15:06 for He can take a monster out of the womb 15:09 and make that monster into His servant, into a fisher of men 15:14 into someone who tastes grace 15:18 Look at how many things have happened, the great things in 15:23 the Bible. I think about David who said he was shaped in 15:27 iniquity. He knew from the womb he was shaped in iniquity 15:31 yet he was called a man after God's own heart. 15:36 Yes. I think about Jesus and the way He was born 15:39 what if, essentially His step father, what if Joseph 15:45 had rejected Him even though He had the connection with 15:49 God the Father, what would have happened? 15:51 You know a lot of times, the rejection again sends a ripple 15:56 effect you know through the ages, through birth, through 16:00 all the way up until adulthood they just don't act right 16:05 and they don't know why. And I remember again in the seminary 16:09 particular professor who taught with his wife, she's the one 16:12 that talked about it. She's the one that felt the rejection 16:16 and she explained how she felt it obviously not in the womb 16:21 but she felt it as an adult. And she couldn't explain as to 16:24 why she was reacting to certain things the way she was 16:27 Certain trigger points were making her angry 16:29 And she found out through asking the parents, asking 16:35 and asking and she found out why Why she was acting the way 16:40 she was because she was rejected from the womb. You know there's 16:45 a lot of things that go into play psychologically 16:48 and spiritually because God never rejects us 16:52 even though the world may but He never does 16:56 He formed us just the way we are there's people out there that 17:01 might be you know have different things as far as deformities 17:05 but He formed us and sometimes we look too much to the exterior 17:10 and not focus on the internal. And, as a father, I focus a lot 17:16 on my daughters wellbeing from inside out. 17:19 Because the exterior will change God forbid, accidents and things 17:23 of that nature but internally I really dedicate a lot of time 17:27 to my new born when she was in the womb, dedicated a lot of 17:31 time talking to her even though it didn't quite make sense 17:34 because it's a baby or not even, as a fetus or whatever you want 17:38 to call it. It's a baby, it's a child but it's a life 17:40 And I talked, and I spoke and I just didn't make any sense 17:44 until after she was born you see that connection developing 17:47 the beauty of it, it's like, I remember I was singing a song 17:52 about God's greatness to her she was falling asleep and I 17:56 started crying because there's such beauty, God's creation 18:01 not because she's my daughter but because this is a life 18:07 this is a life, from an egg, from nothing, from molecules 18:13 into a human being with arms and legs. How can anybody 18:18 have the heart to reject a child from the womb? 18:22 It just does not compute in my head. 18:25 It maybe because they were rejected. What I hear you say is 18:30 that we should, you start the process, you finish the process. 18:36 Havin a child is not just start it and then that's it 18:41 and again that's why it's important to be married 18:45 in a marital relationship so you can conceive in that 18:51 relationship not like what you were saying with you mom 18:56 Unfortunately that's where we need to educate our young men 19:02 This is serious because it messes up an entire generation 19:07 So if you're gonna start the process start it right 19:12 get married, do it right so you're there. You can come home 19:16 you can touch the stomach and all that stuff and talk to the 19:23 child. And so you can be there when the child is born 19:28 the entire process so the child I mean I enjoyed the fact 19:33 that I was there from the beginning 19:35 and I'll be there to the end by God's grace 19:39 And my daughter, we had a song I would come and I would sing 19:44 Butterfly Kisses to her in the womb. It was the most joyful 19:49 time in life. My son you know I had a song that I would sing 19:54 to him so I would run home from work just to get there 20:00 to spend that quality time when my wife was pregnant 20:04 and after the birth. It was important to me and I think 20:10 it should be important to every man out there to be there 20:15 from the beginning so that that child is whole 20:19 And even how you talk to the mother in the process 20:22 Oh yes. You know I remember my wife, she said rub this oil 20:27 coconut oil or whatever it was for my stretch marks and I was 20:30 like, you can do it yourself it's all good, like 20:34 I don't want to touch the baby but you know what, wait 20:38 that touch, not only are you bonding with your wife but 20:41 you're bonding with her, it's like, dare I say something like 20:44 an example of God's Trinity. Spiritual. Bonding 20:47 Three. So when people have quadruplets and everything 20:51 but I'm just using my example that bonding time with your wife 20:54 affects your child because they know, they feel. What they can't 20:59 they feel. Whatever the mother feels, they feel 21:02 If the mother's stressed, they're stressed 21:04 It's an amazing thing what God has given us the privilege to 21:08 doing like Gordon, like you said we've been talking about 21:10 there's such an importance to waiting until you get married 21:15 because you cannot throw this in the garbage can 21:18 like a lot of parents do to their kids, literally 21:21 not theoretically, literally. 21:23 We have to really hone in on the fact that sex is for married 21:29 people and the process of birth is a God given gift. 21:35 WE have no right, no right. We have the right to die 21:39 for our sin but God not only redeemed us through Jesus 21:44 but He's given us the ability to partake in the creation 21:48 process by procreating. 21:50 Not only is sex a gift between a husband and his wife 21:57 but it's also holy between a husband and his wife 22:02 You know Paul talks in Corinthians that our parts 22:06 belong to Christ and when we connect them to an harlot or 22:11 someone who's not our spouse it's an offense to Him 22:16 So if you want your child to be blessed in a holy home 22:22 do God's plan. Not Plan B, not Plan C or nothing else 22:28 God's plan because God knows what He's talking about 22:32 so you won't have these rejection issues 22:35 so you don't have these dramas so you don't have these 22:38 all these things if you do it the way God has designed it 22:45 now when the child comes in, the picture it's a blessing 22:50 there's a special, unique blessing 22:52 You know I came from, like I said, my background, most people 22:55 from my background were from you know either extra marital 22:58 affairs, unfortunately or single parents. 23:04 And so God put it in my heart 23:08 I need you even though you're 23:11 the youngest I need you to set this new legacy 23:17 to establish this legacy of holiness 23:23 I want you to marry this young lady 23:27 not have sex with her until you're married 23:32 and we waited until we were married 23:35 and then we got married and years later we had a beautiful 23:40 child. And now we have three 23:45 They know who their father is 23:48 I pick up the phone right now, I talk to the boys, I talk to 23:51 my daughter. Yes, of course, your daddy wants to talk to you 23:54 They know my voice. They know who their mother is 23:59 There's no rejection issue, why? Because we're invested in them 24:05 We know this is an investment, not for life, for eternity 24:12 And remember in the holiness the body is the temple 24:17 I mean that child is in a holy place 24:24 That's how serious this thing is that child is in a holy place 24:27 and so you don't desecrate the temple by having sex 24:32 out of wedlock. That's why we need to understand 24:37 when we get it out to all men out there and not only that 24:43 Because some people say, well I got married but then 24:48 look what happened. He just left. You gotta be careful who 24:52 you get married to. Mercy. Remember what happened to Saul 24:57 See we haven't been delicate lately with holy things 25:04 We need to be delicate with holy things 25:07 And sex is a holy thing 25:10 And that's only between a husband and his wife 25:15 not a husband and a wife 25:17 or girlfriend or anything but a husband and I'm specifically 25:22 saying a male husband and his female wife 25:26 Yes. It's a holy thing and God blesses, blesses it 25:32 Remember with Saul, when Saul went ahead and made a sacrifice 25:37 that only a priest was supposed to do 25:39 He was rejected. I mean we look at David's record and David 25:44 did a lot of things but when Saul did that 25:49 was like a slap in God's face 25:53 because that was a holy thing only a priest was supposed to do 25:58 and so when you, as a man or a woman say, you know, I'm gonna 26:02 take something that is holy because I have feelings and 26:06 I have emotions and I have wants and I'm gonna get satisfaction 26:13 from this, you know you're desecrating a holy thing 26:18 and God is not mocked 26:20 It's interesting that we're talking about this because 26:23 all three of us didn't come to this conclusion because we 26:27 we followed straight in the paths of our lives you know 26:30 we all come from crazy backgrounds 26:34 and just picked up the phone accepting the call to ministry 26:37 and we learned what we have today through bumps and bruises 26:42 and really being submissive to God 26:46 What do you think Gordon? 26:48 I think submission to God is an important part of the whole 26:51 process, cause if we submit to God, God is going to lead and 26:54 He's going to direct your life. 26:56 If you're not submissive to God then you're going to be 27:00 doing, you're going to do your own thing and you're gonna make 27:03 all kinds of mistakes. We make mistakes when we're submitted 27:06 to God, we still make mistakes cause we live in a sinful world 27:10 and we are sinful. The Bible says no one is without sin 27:15 but understanding and recognizing that when you're 27:18 submitted to God, God is going to direct your path 27:23 And I think that's the important thing 27:24 and you're gonna make right decisions. 27:26 Thank you guys and man, again we ran out of time 27:29 but we'll talk about this some more, so 27:32 for the viewers out there, I know it's tough 27:37 if you have any questions, please send it in 27:39 to AFH@3ABN.ORG 27:43 AFH@3ABN.ORG 27:46 Now, what I want to leave you with is this 27:48 Even though the ideal thing is to be married 27:53 to have sex and have kids 27:55 for those of you that have made error or whatever the reason 27:59 might be, please do not dismiss your kids 28:02 the connection starts from birth 28:05 If you're man enough to go and have sex 28:08 be man enough to be in it from beginning to end 28:11 Thank you |
Revised 2017-01-10