Authentic

Unintended Consequences

Three Angels Broadcasting Network

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Series Code: AU

Program Code: AU000052S


00:01 - Most of us like to think that for the most part,
00:04 we have our lives under perfect control,
00:06 but the older you get, the more you start to realize
00:10 that might not be as true as you hoped.
00:12 Today on "Authentic,"
00:14 we're gonna talk unintended consequences.
00:18 [upbeat music]
00:37 Back in 2003,
00:39 photographer Kenneth Adelman was posting pictures
00:41 of the eroding California coastline
00:45 on the now defunct website Pictopedia.com.
00:49 Unfortunately, one of the photos featured
00:51 Barbara Streisand's multimillion dollar
00:53 Malibu property, and she didn't like that,
00:56 so she launched a $50 million lawsuit
01:00 in an effort to get rid of the picture.
01:02 Up to that point,
01:04 only six people had actually downloaded the photo,
01:07 and two of those were downloaded by Streisand's lawyers.
01:11 Her intent, of course, was to protect her privacy,
01:13 but then when word of the lawsuit hit the newspaper,
01:17 suddenly everybody wanted to see the photo.
01:19 And over the next 30 days,
01:21 more than 420,000 people visited that website.
01:26 Streisand's effort to stay private misfired,
01:29 and it misfired on a spectacular level, in fact,
01:33 the lawsuit was dismissed and the judge ordered Streisand
01:37 to pay the photographer's legal fees.
01:40 It was such a notorious case
01:42 that today when people try to hide sensitive information,
01:45 but inadvertently draw more attention
01:48 to it, they call it the Streisand effect, I mean,
01:52 her intention was to make the problem go away,
01:55 but here I am nearly two decades later
01:57 and we're still talking about it,
01:59 and I'm guessing that some of you are probably
02:01 gonna Google streisand and today,
02:03 and you're still going to find that photo online
02:06 for the whole world to see.
02:09 It's a really good example of unintended consequence,
02:12 which is a regular feature in the average human life
02:17 we seem to be born with this desire to tweak our
02:19 surroundings and make our lives more comfortable,
02:23 but unfortunately we just aren't omniscient enough
02:26 to anticipate all of the fallout.
02:29 We might think we're smart enough to engineer a perfect
02:32 existence, I mean, just even a little bit.
02:35 But at the end of the day, things always happen
02:38 that we couldn't possibly have predicted.
02:41 Take for example the CIA strategy for helping
02:44 the Afghans fight the Soviet Union back in the 1980s.
02:48 We thought it would be a good idea to provide money
02:51 in arms to the Mujahideen because well, hey,
02:54 they're fighting communists and we didn't like communists.
02:57 But wouldn't you know it?
02:59 Some of those same people ended up joining the Taliban
03:02 or Al-Qaeda where they used the support we provided
03:05 to fight against us.
03:07 And nobody of any real consequence saw that coming.
03:11 It's something that happens almost every time we try
03:14 to tweak the world we live in to some degree or other.
03:18 Sometimes our plans produce rather happy accidents like
03:22 the discovery that sinking old boats
03:25 in the ocean provided artificial reefs,
03:27 which provided homes for all kinds of life forms,
03:30 and the practice proved to be a net positive.
03:34 But more times than we'd care to admit,
03:36 our very best planning seems to go awry,
03:39 which is why people show understandable concern
03:42 when governments launch hyper ambitious plans
03:46 to tweak the world on a global scale.
03:49 We all know that none of us is smart enough
03:52 to anticipate every possible outcome.
03:56 I'll give you another example,
03:58 and this is one that I personally find a little disturbing.
04:00 There's this growing concern that we need
04:03 to slow down or stop the warming of our planet,
04:06 and in recent years, a rather novel idea has emerged.
04:10 Maybe we could actually block the sun
04:13 to cool down the earth.
04:15 Back in 1991 when Mount Pinatubo erupted in the Philippines,
04:19 it released something like 20 million tons of sulfur dioxide
04:23 into the stratosphere, that in turn created a high altitude
04:28 haze made of particles that some observers noticed cooled
04:32 the planet by about half a degree Celsius.
04:35 And the effect lasted for roughly a year and a half.
04:39 So the thinking kind of goes like this.
04:42 What if we artificially released particulates
04:45 into the atmosphere?
04:47 Could that possibly reverse the current warming trend?
04:50 Now, it wouldn't be sulfur dioxide,
04:53 it would be calcium carbonate
04:54 or some other hopefully innocuous substance.
04:58 And some people are suggesting probably to the delight
05:01 of the chem trail conspiracy people that airplanes
05:05 could continually release particles until the earth
05:08 had been adequately cooled, so that was the big picture.
05:12 But then we discovered another favorite of the conspiracy
05:15 crowd, Bill Gates was financially backing the project,
05:19 hoping to get this idea off the ground.
05:21 Now, I'm really not a conspiracy theorist
05:23 and I'm not a chem trail guy,
05:26 but the project still bothers me because
05:29 of our long history of unintended consequences.
05:31 I mean, here we are thinking about engineering the planet
05:34 on a massive scale,
05:36 and the truth is we have no way of knowing what else might
05:40 happen if we start to tinker with the atmosphere.
05:43 How do we really know we're
05:45 not gonna cause a climate disaster?
05:48 And by the time we find out,
05:50 we will have already tinkered with the whole planet.
05:52 So all of us are gonna have to live with the consequences.
05:57 Now I've got to say I'm not exactly a Luddite,
05:59 or at least I like to think I'm not a Luddite.
06:02 Human beings are incredibly inventive.
06:05 Something I believe we can attribute to the fact
06:07 that we were made in the image
06:10 of an infinite creator, a very creative God.
06:13 And we really have solved all kinds of big problems
06:16 by applying a little bit of human ingenuity, for example,
06:20 I'm a big fan of the fact that I can swim in a river
06:23 and not have to worry about getting polio or ending up
06:26 in an iron lung.
06:27 And I love the fact that the surgeon knows
06:29 how to knock me out before he opens up my chest cavity.
06:32 Those are really good developments.
06:35 I love the fact that I can get to work when it's 30 degrees
06:39 below zero without freezing to death
06:41 because I have a car with a heater.
06:44 A little human ingenuity
06:45 really has made our lives a lot better,
06:49 but when we start to tinker with things
06:51 that are clearly bigger and clearly more complex,
06:54 bigger than our capacity to understand,
06:58 well then I start to worry.
07:00 Some of you might remember the way that Australian farmers
07:03 tried to protect their crops from beetles back in the 1930s.
07:07 They were growing sugar cane,
07:09 a species that the settlers introduced to the continent back
07:13 in the 19th century and beetles were destroying
07:16 their livelihood, so in 1935,
07:19 they got reports from Hawaii that can toads,
07:25 the ones the Hawaiians were importing from Puerto Rico,
07:26 they were really beneficial for pest control.
07:30 So somebody brought them to Australia and released
07:34 2,400 of them into the wild before anybody even tested
07:37 to see if they would eat the beetles.
07:39 The problem was that the toads proved
07:42 to be very destructive,
07:44 and today they are still spreading across the top half
07:47 of Australia and nobody can stop it.
07:50 It turns out that once you've cut a pillow open in a
07:53 windstorm, you will never, ever pick up all the feathers.
07:59 Most of you know the story the Greeks told
08:02 about a woman named Pandora.
08:04 She was created by Zeus and placed on this earth
08:07 to punish the human race because Prometheus had stolen fire
08:11 and given it to us.
08:13 Pandora was given a jar by the gods
08:16 or in later editions of the story of box.
08:19 And she was told never ever open it, but of course,
08:22 like most of us being told no was a serious problem.
08:26 It only made her more curious.
08:28 So she opened the forbidden box and all the evils
08:32 that plague us today started to pour out
08:34 of the box uncontrollably.
08:36 At the very last moment, she managed to slam the lid shut,
08:41 but in the process, the story goes,
08:43 she trapped the gift of hope inside the box,
08:45 which made us even more miserable.
08:48 It was a huge mess that nobody could fix, and to this day,
08:52 we still talk about opening Pandora's box when we're afraid
08:56 that somebody is going to generate unintended consequences,
08:59 stuff that everybody's gonna have to live with.
09:02 And what the Greeks were trying to do is illustrate
09:05 the dangers of human pride.
09:07 You and I are not nearly as smart as we think we are.
09:11 I'll be right back after this.
09:17 - [Narrator] Here at The Voice Of Prophecy,
09:19 we're committed to creating top quality programming
09:21 for the whole family, like our audio adventure series,
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09:41 there's always a new adventure just on the horizon.
09:47 - Paul actually at one point describes the devil in it comes
09:50 as a surprise to a lot of people that the devil is not a man
09:53 with horns wearing red pajamas.
09:57 He doesn't have a pitch for it.
09:59 That's an image that came from European pagan mythology more
10:02 than anything else,
10:03 and you won't find it in the pages of the Bible.
10:05 Here's the way that Paul describes the devil
10:08 in a passage where he's warning a church about listening
10:11 to false teachers, he writes "For such our false apostles,
10:15 deceitful workers transforming themselves
10:18 into apostles of Christ.
10:20 And no wonder for Satan himself transforms himself
10:24 into an angel of light, therefore,
10:26 it is no great thing if his ministers also transform
10:30 themselves into ministers of righteousness
10:32 whose end will be according to their works."
10:37 In Paul's description, evil appears beautiful,
10:41 which makes you wonder why in the Genesis account the devil
10:44 would appear as a snake.
10:46 Well, he's trying to get
10:47 the mother of humanity to disobey God.
10:49 And so you'd think he'd appear in the most attractive form
10:53 possible, maybe even as an angel, but he doesn't,
10:56 he's a snake.
10:58 And quite literally the temptation he presents is curiosity,
11:03 knowledge, which is something that most of us want.
11:07 Julian the apostate made a huge point out
11:10 of this when he ridiculed the faith of the Bible.
11:13 Julian was a fourth century pagan emperor
11:16 who tried to reverse Constantine's efforts
11:19 to Christianize the Roman Empire.
11:20 And Julian demanded to know why would there be a problem
11:24 with human beings wanting to know more?
11:26 What exactly was wrong with the devil's offer?
11:29 Isn't knowledge something we should want?
11:31 Here's what he actually wrote, he said,
11:34 "Is it not also excessively absurd that God
11:37 should forbid men fashion by himself
11:40 the knowledge of good and evil?
11:42 For what can be more foolish than
11:44 one who is not able to know
11:46 what is good and what is depraved
11:47 for it is evident that such a one will
11:49 not avoid some things, I mean evils,
11:51 that he will not pursue others such as our good,
11:55 But as the summit of all,
11:59 god forbade man to taste of wisdom that then,
12:01 which nothing is more honorable to man
12:04 for that the knowledge of good and evil is the proper work
12:07 of wisdom is evident even to this stupid."
12:11 Julian, why don't you tell me how you really feel, the whole
12:16 account in the Garden of Eden seems stupid to Julian,
12:20 and I suspect a lot of modern critics would agree,
12:25 yet it's hard to deny the staying power of the Bible.
12:29 Quite literally, billions of people find the story
12:32 of Eden absolutely fascinating, not stupid at all.
12:36 There's something about this story that arrests
12:38 our attention because we suspect there's more
12:42 going on here than first meets the eye.
12:44 There's something really quite primordial about the story.
12:48 And I guess the question I want you to think about today
12:51 is why the devil would appear as a snake.
12:54 Over the long and many centuries since
12:57 the story was first written down,
12:59 there have been all kinds of allegorical explanations
13:02 for the devil's serpentine appearance.
13:04 But as Rabbi David Foreman points out,
13:07 the narrative of Genesis itself prevents a really practical
13:10 reason for a snake.
13:12 It's a snake because his snake is an animal.
13:17 Pay careful attention to the way the story unfolds,
13:20 and I think you'll see a very important pattern.
13:22 And I really am indebted to Rabbi Foreman
13:24 for starting me down this path.
13:28 In Genesis chapter two,
13:29 we get the introduction of the tree of the knowledge of good
13:32 and evil, where it says this,
13:36 "The Lord God planted a garden, eastward in Eden,
13:38 and there put the man whom he had formed
13:40 and out of the ground,
13:42 the Lord God made every tree that is pleasant
13:44 to the site and good for food,
13:46 the Tree Of Life was also in the midst of the garden
13:50 and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil."
13:54 The story continues in verse 15, it says,
13:57 "Then the Lord God took the man and put him
13:59 in the garden of Eden to tend and keep it.
14:01 And the Lord God commanded the man saying,
14:03 of every tree of the garden, you may freely eat,
14:06 but if the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall
14:08 not eat for in the day that you eat
14:10 of it, you shall surely die."
14:14 Now, there's a curious fact that emerges later
14:17 on over in chapter three of this story.
14:19 When the devil asks Eve if God really told her that she
14:23 couldn't eat from every tree in the garden, she tells him,
14:27 I'm not allowed to eat from the tree in the midst
14:29 of the garden, in other words,
14:31 the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.
14:33 But in Genesis chapter two,
14:35 it's the Tree Of Life that you find in the midst
14:37 of the garden, not the tree of knowledge.
14:40 So either both those trees were in the middle
14:42 of the garden or the focal point of the story is shifting
14:47 from one tree to the other.
14:49 It's describing the moment when the human race
14:52 changed its mode of existence.
14:55 What Rabbi Foreman points out is that between these
14:58 two references to the trees, we find another story,
15:01 really an insertion where God asks Adam to name the animals
15:06 and search among them for a suitable mate.
15:08 And he suggests that interlude,
15:11 that extra story is very deliberate.
15:14 Here's how the Bible tells the story again
15:16 from Genesis chapter two, it says,
15:18 "Out of the ground the Lord God formed every beast of the
15:21 field and every bird of the air and brought them to Adam
15:24 to see what he would call them and whatever Adam called
15:27 each living creature that was its name.
15:29 So Adam gave names to all cattle,
15:32 to the birds of the air and to every beast of the field.
15:35 But for Adam,
15:37 there was not found a helper comparable to him. "
15:41 And the very next thing that happens is the creation of Eve.
15:44 This comes in verse 21, it says,
15:47 "And the Lord God caused a deep sleep to fall on Adam and he
15:50 slept and he took one of his ribs and closed up the flesh
15:54 in its place.
15:55 Then the rib, which the Lord God had taken from man,
15:57 he made into a woman and he brought her to the man.
16:00 And Adam said,
16:02 This is now bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh.
16:04 She shall be called woman because she was taken out of man."
16:10 So here's what's happening.
16:12 When God presents the animals,
16:14 he isn't really trying to convince Adam to adopt one
16:17 of them as a wife.
16:19 What he's trying to do is show Adam
16:21 that he's different from the animals.
16:25 There's something that sets you and I apart from the
16:26 animal kingdom, animals appear to live by instinct
16:30 and human beings ostensibly try to live by our reason.
16:34 So what happens next in the story?
16:37 A member of the animal kingdom suddenly tempts the human
16:40 race to pivot away from their God-given authentic human
16:43 existence, did God really say you can't eat from that tree?
16:48 Well, what the devil is doing
16:49 is trying to convince human beings that there urges,
16:52 their instincts are more reliable than the word of God.
16:59 And what you'll notice is that he appeals directly
17:01 to our senses, when he tries to persuade us.
17:04 The story says "So when the woman saw that the tree was good
17:08 for food and it was pleasant to the eyes and a tree
17:10 desirable to make one wise, she took of its fruit and ate,
17:14 she also gave to her husband with her and he ate."
17:19 This is a push for human beings to live like animals.
17:24 Now it's a lot more complicated than that,
17:26 and I'm not at all convinced by all of Rabbi Foreman's
17:29 observations, but at the same time, I have
17:32 to admit, the animal element does appear in this story.
17:35 Adam has decided to get a human made
17:39 because he is not like the animals.
17:40 And now the devil in some ways
17:44 tries to get that decision reversed.
17:46 I mean, look at that fruit.
17:48 I know what God said,
17:50 but didn't he also create you with instinct?
17:52 I know God gave you reason,
17:54 but didn't he also give you passion?
17:56 Why can't you be like the animal
17:58 and just follow your instincts?
18:02 And so begins the sad saga of unintended consequences.
18:06 We believed that we could out guess God and engineer
18:10 a better existence for ourselves all on our own.
18:14 And personally,
18:15 I think the story of Pandora's box is just a memory
18:19 of this story, I'll be right back after this.
18:26 - [Narrator] Dragons, beasts, cryptic statues,
18:31 Bible prophecy can be incredibly vivid and confusing.
18:35 If you've ever read Daniel or Revelation
18:37 and come away scratching your head, you are not alone.
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18:56 - The story of Eden ends with the human race being kicked
18:59 out of its original home so that the now changed human race
19:02 cannot eat from the Tree Of Life.
19:05 Human beings developed an experiential knowledge
19:08 of evil, the ability to do wicked things,
19:11 and we would be capable of producing untold wickedness
19:15 if there wasn't a time limit.
19:17 And so today we think that we're rational beings
19:20 entirely governed by our reason,
19:23 but we are also driven by untamed passions
19:25 that cloud our ability to think clearly.
19:29 The Bible describes that condition as sin,
19:32 which is an English translation of a word that literally
19:35 means missing the mark, like a marksman who misses a target.
19:40 Our perception of the universe has been skewed.
19:43 And so people who were made in the image of God find
19:46 themselves in a condition where they think they're doing
19:49 the right thing,
19:51 but they may well be moving away from God's design.
19:54 The book of Proverbs famously says,
19:56 "There is a way that seems right
19:58 to a man, but it's end is the way of death."
20:01 It's a really bad case
20:04 of unattended consequences, a condition which dooms us all.
20:10 So it comes as no surprise to students of the Bible
20:12 that the human race misses the mark again and again
20:15 and again and again, and often with disastrous side effects
20:19 that nobody predicted.
20:22 And yet we continue to delude ourselves into thinking
20:24 that we're mostly right most of the time, I mean,
20:27 just listen to something that Jesus said.
20:29 He said "These things I have spoken
20:32 to you that you should not be made to stumble,"
20:35 in other words, just like it was
20:37 in Eden, God is asking us to listen to what he says,
20:40 and then he contrasts his advice with the way that we think
20:43 He continues, "They will put you out of the synagogues.
20:47 Yes, the time is coming that whosoever kills you."
20:50 Now listen to this.
20:51 "We'll think that he offers God's service and these things
20:55 they will do to you because they have not known
20:58 the Father nor me."
21:00 It's a description of unaided human reason.
21:03 You and I are perfectly capable of convincing ourselves
21:05 that almost anything is a good idea.
21:08 I mean most of us love to think
21:10 that we are intellectually immune
21:12 from doing terrible things,
21:14 and it horrifies us to think that there might be
21:16 a Charlie Manson lurking in every human heart.
21:20 But don't forget,
21:22 Hitler's mother didn't give birth to a immoral monster.
21:25 She gave birth to a beautiful baby boy.
21:28 Not that I know for sure that Hitler was a beautiful baby,
21:31 but you get my point.
21:34 Therefore, Paul wrote, "Let him who thinks he stands,
21:38 take heed lest he fall."
21:40 No temptation is overtaken you except such
21:42 as is common to man in other words,
21:46 never delude yourself into thinking that you can't do
21:48 what other people have done, we're all human after all,
21:52 and everybody's reason is clouded by passion.
21:55 Almost all of us, given the right circumstances,
21:58 are capable of just about anything.
22:03 And then Paul says, But God is faithful
22:05 who will not allow you
22:07 to be tempted beyond what you are able,
22:09 but with the temptation will also make the way
22:11 of escape that you may be able to bear it.
22:15 So where does Paul suggest that we find some moral clarity
22:19 so we can actually do the right thing?
22:21 Well by returning to the words that God has spoken.
22:26 Our baser instincts are not a reliable measure
22:29 of right and wrong.
22:30 What Adam and Eve did was choose
22:31 to live by the dictates of human passion.
22:34 They chose to become masters of their own destiny,
22:37 ignoring the council of God and forging their own future.
22:42 The result, a world riddled with unintended consequences,
22:46 many of which have caused untold pain and suffering,
22:51 including for you.
22:53 Which brings me to another observation
22:55 from the story of Eden, after Adam and Eve are expelled
22:58 from paradise, God places chars at the gates
23:02 of Eden, it says to guard the way to the Tree Of Life.
23:06 You'll notice God does not bar the way to the Tree Of Life.
23:10 He guards it as if it needs to be preserved.
23:14 In the Bible, chars are the angels who stand right next
23:17 to the throne of God.
23:18 Lucifer is described as a covering chair
23:21 before he sinned, in the Old Testament sanctuary,
23:24 the arc of the covenant had two golden chars on the lid,
23:27 and under the lid there was a copy of the 10 Commandments,
23:30 the moral law of God.
23:34 The presence of God, and the Moral Commandments
23:36 are figuratively speaking,
23:38 serving the same function as the Tree Of Life.
23:42 And it's here that Rabbi Foreman makes a
23:43 really good point, he writes,
23:46 "We noticed earlier that cherubs appear just twice
23:49 in the entire five books of Moses.
23:51 The only other time we find them is when their likeness
23:54 adorns the top of the holy arc and the tabernacle
23:56 where they guard the tablets of the law.
23:59 Aptly the Book of Proverbs describes these tablets
24:02 or the Torah, they represent as another Tree Of Life,
24:05 a Tree Of Life to all who grab hold of it."
24:08 Evidently the same chars who keep us away
24:11 from one Tree Of Life grant us access to another one,
24:14 in a sense, the Torah may be seen as a replacement Tree
24:18 Of Life, okay, I'll be right back after this quick break.
24:26 - [Narrator] Life can throw a lot at us.
24:28 Sometimes we don't have all the answers,
24:32 but that's where the Bible comes in.
24:34 It's our guide to a more fulfilling life.
24:37 Here at The Voice Of Prophecy,
24:39 we've created the Discover Bible guides to be your guide
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24:52 and start your journey of discovery.
24:56 - When the Book of Proverbs brings up the idea of grabbing
24:58 hold of the Tree Of Life, it's talking about wisdom,
25:01 but it's not talking about my wisdom or yours because we
25:04 already know the results of just unaided raw human thinking.
25:08 It's talking about God's wisdom,
25:11 the kind that leads to an authentic human existence
25:14 where you and I actually reveal
25:16 the character of God in our lives.
25:18 Now, to be sure you are perfectly free
25:20 to keep living your own way,
25:22 We've had 2,500 years of written human philosophy to guide
25:26 us, but after all those centuries with all those brilliant
25:29 thinkers, the human condition hasn't improved one bit.
25:33 Ah sure, we've conquered smallpox and polio,
25:36 and we have the benefit of anesthetics
25:38 when we get our teeth drilled but overall,
25:42 try to convince me the human beings are actually better off
25:45 morally speaking than we used to be.
25:47 We entered the 20th century brimming with confidence because
25:50 the scientific revolution was gonna fix all our problems.
25:54 But we left the 20th century with more than 200 million dead
25:59 because we used our knowledge
26:00 to make killing more efficient.
26:02 And I know there are Christians who behave like the devil,
26:06 but then every once in a while you'll see the real thing.
26:09 A person who grabs hold of the Tree Of Life
26:13 and is restored to his rightful place as a human being
26:16 made in the image of God.
26:18 And we all stop and marvel when we see one of those people
26:21 because something tells us that's the right way to live.
26:25 And standing obviously at the top of that list
26:28 is the one man who changed human history
26:30 more than everybody else put together,
26:32 a humble carpenter from Nazareth whose life
26:35 and teachings continue to inspire even some
26:38 of the harshest skeptics.
26:40 Kurt Vanu even called himself a Christ loving atheist.
26:44 In the God delusion, Richard Dawkins said, Indeed, Jesus,
26:47 if he ever existed,
26:49 was surely one of the great ethical innovators of history.
26:52 The Sermon on the Mount is way ahead of its time.
26:55 High praise right from a man who appears to hate Christians,
26:59 an atheist I recently stumbled across on Reddit,
27:02 described Jesus as a great human being who is the perfect
27:06 role model for what we should all strive to achieve.
27:11 Jesus said this, I have come to do your willow God.
27:15 What we have in the life of Christ is a second Adam,
27:19 a redo a man who shows us what a real authentic human life
27:23 is supposed to look like
27:25 in his life, has altered human history for good.
27:29 I don't know about you,
27:30 but the last five decades of my life have been one long
27:32 string of unintended consequences.
27:35 But here's what I found when I went to this book.
27:39 If you live this way, if you grab hold of the Tree Of Life,
27:43 if you examine what God says is an authentic human life,
27:47 it really does start to go better.
27:49 So maybe it's time to have another look at this old book to
27:53 see what our human race lost when we chose
27:56 to forge our own destiny.
27:58 Until next time, I'm Shawn Boonstra,
28:01 and this has been "Authentic".
28:04 [upbeat music]


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Revised 2022-10-21