Participants: Pastor Stephen Bohr
Series Code: CGC
Program Code: CGC000035S
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01:12 Shall we bow our heads for prayer.
01:14 Father in heaven, as we open up your holy book 01:19 We realize more than ever, that we need the aid of your 01:22 of your holy spirit. We ask that you will be present with us 01:26 through that spirit, that gave us the word 01:30 Help us to understand and to receive what you have for us 01:33 Help us to have greater admiration for you. 01:37 We pray in the precious name of Jesus, Amen. 01:44 In our lecture for this moment, we are going to speak 01:48 about God's heavenly counsel. 01:53 We want to begin our study in the book of Job chapter 38. 01:58 I'm going to focus especially on verse 7. 02:02 I want to give you a little bit of background 02:06 about Job, before we read this verse 02:10 and the verses that surround it. 02:14 You know the story of Job. 02:17 Basically, chapter 1 and 2 tells us that Job lost everything that 02:22 he had. The only thing he didn't lose was his life. 02:26 He lost his health, servants and his wife turned against him 02:31 His friends turned against him. He lost servants, 02:35 he lost all of his animals, he lost all of his properties. 02:39 In a matter of minutes, he lost everything that he had. 02:42 That is the first two chapters. 02:45 Beginning in chapter three, Job starts complaining to God. 02:51 He starts asking God to explain the reason why he's going 02:56 through this period of crisis. 02:58 He says to God, I was a family man, I offered sacrifices 03:02 for my children, I used my riches to benefit the poor. 03:05 I clothed the naked. I blessed humanity. 03:08 I consecrated my life to you. So why is this happening to me 03:14 Please explain. 03:17 From chapter 3 to chapter 37, 03:21 God's only answer 03:24 is absolute silence. 03:28 This frustrates Job. 03:31 So, all throughout these chapters, 3 through 37. 03:34 Job is crying out for God to explain his suffering 03:40 and God says nothing to Job. 03:43 Finally, in chapter 38. 03:47 God is going to tell Job, 03:49 Job, now I'm going to ask the questions 03:55 and you answer me. 03:57 Lets read Job 38, beginning with verse 1. 04:02 Then the Lord answered Job out of the whirlwind 04:06 and said, Who is this that darkened counsel by words 04:10 without knowledge? Gird up now thy loins like 04:14 a man; for I will demand of thee, and answer thou me. 04:20 God is saying, it's my turn to ask questions. 04:23 Notice verse 4. 04:54 What is being described in these verses? Creation. 04:58 I want you to notice verse 7, this is the key verse 05:01 in this whole passage. 05:03 It says in verse 7. 05:05 that when God did all of these things, he laid the foundation 05:09 of the earth, he laid the measures 05:12 he laid the foundations and the cornerstone 05:17 it tells us in verse 7 something happened when He did that. 05:21 This is pre-creation or at the moment of creation at least. 05:38 Did you notice that when Jesus created this world 05:41 there were two groups that celebrated God's work? 05:45 One group is called the stars of heaven and the other group 05:48 is called the sons of God. 05:50 I don't think we have to look to far in the Bible 05:53 to understand who the morning stars were. 05:56 In Revelation chapter 12, we find that when the 06:00 Devil fell from heaven he drew a third of the stars 06:04 from heaven with him. It is explained there that the 06:08 angels of Satan were cast to the earth with him. 06:12 So, stars, the morning stars represent angels 06:16 you'll notice that the angels preexisted creation 06:20 because they sang at creation. 06:23 What about this group that is described as the sons of God? 06:28 Who are these sons of God? 06:31 I believe the best answer to that question would be to let 06:35 Job, himself tell us who the sons of God are. 06:38 Did you know that in two other places, in his book 06:41 he mentions the sons of God. Lets go in our Bibles 06:45 to Job chapter 1. I want to read quickly 06:48 through verses 1 through 7. 06:54 There was a man in the land of Uz, whose name was Job; 06:58 and that man was perfect and upright and one that feared God, 07:02 and eschewed evil. 07:04 And there were born unto him seven sons and three daughters. 07:07 His substance also was seven thousand sheep, and three 07:10 thousand camels, and five hundred yoke of oxen 07:13 and five hundred she asses, and a very great household 07:17 so that this man was the greatest of all the men 07:20 of the east. 07:22 And he sons went and feasted in their houses, every one his 07:27 day; and sent and called for their three sisters to eat 07:31 and drink with them. And it was so, when the days of their 07:36 feasting were gone about, that Job sent and sanctified them 07:40 and rose up early in the morning and offered burnt offerings 07:44 according to the number of them all: for Job said, 07:46 It maybe that my sons have sinned, and cursed God in their 07:49 hearts. Thus did Job continually. 07:54 Now verses 6 and 7 are the key verses. 08:13 Do the Sons of God come all the time to present themselves 08:15 Do they live in the presence of the Lord? 08:16 Not according to this, it says that they came on a certain 08:21 occasion to present themselves before the Lord 08:23 which means that they do not dwell where the Lord is. 08:28 Because they came. 08:30 It says, now there was a day when the sons of God came 09:04 Did you notice that Satan came to this meeting among the sons 09:08 of God? We have the strong impression that Satan claimed to 09:12 have a right to belong to this group, know as the sons of God. 09:16 he came among them. 09:18 The interesting thing is, that the story describes 09:22 Satan coming from a planet. 09:26 Planet earth. 09:29 I don't think we have to be too intelligent to figure out 09:33 That if Satan comes among this group, 09:38 called the sons of God, to present himself before God 09:41 and he comes from a planet, 09:44 It must mean that the other sons of God, that belong to the 09:48 same group, most likely also came from planets 09:53 Are you understanding what I am saying? 09:58 Now the first meeting ended, Job loses everything he had, 10:02 except that God didn't let the Devil touch Job. 10:07 So, now there is another meeting that takes place. 10:09 Notice Job chapter 2:1-2. 10:17 Notice carefully. Again there was a day when the 10:22 sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, 10:26 Now this is very important, 10:28 What did the sons of God do? 10:31 They came to present themselves before the Lord. 10:34 Would this mean, that they went back to where ever they lived 10:38 after the first meeting? 10:40 See its so simple They must have gone back to where they lived. 10:45 It says that they came on another day to present 10:49 themselves before the Lord. 10:51 Which means that they came to the first meeting, 10:53 they went back to where they lived, 10:55 and then they came back to the second meeting. 10:58 They don't live in the presence of God. 11:03 Notice once again, in chapter 2:2. 11:07 And the Lord said unto Satan, From whence comest thou? 11:12 And Satan answered the Lord, and said, From going to and fro 11:16 in the earth, and from walking up and down in it. 11:21 We find that the sons of God do not permanently dwell 11:26 in the presence of God. We find that God 11:30 off and on. We don't know how frequently, calls the sons of 11:35 God into his presence for a meeting. 11:38 We discovered that Satan who claims the right to be among 11:42 the sons of God, comes from a planet, planet earth. 11:45 Which would lead us to assume that the other sons of God 11:49 which belong to that group must also come from planets 11:56 Now we have another description of a heavenly counsel in the 11:59 old testament. I really don't now if I should go into it 12:02 because our time is so limited for these presentations 12:06 I would like to invite you. I'll give you the references 12:09 2 Chronicles 18:18-21 12:15 It is a rather long passage, but I want you to read that 12:18 passage, and you'll notice that you have the heavenly counsel 12:21 convening in heaven, all of the heavenly hosts are around God's 12:26 throne. God says, to all the heavenly hosts, Who is willing 12:31 to go and persuade King Ahab to go to battle 12:35 against the Syrians, so he gets killed in battle. 12:40 You'll notice that the heavenly counsel could not agree 12:42 on how it would be done. 12:46 It says that one said one thing and the other said another. 12:49 Suddenly, a spirit appears into the presence of the Lord 12:54 and he says, I'll entice Ahab to fight against the Syrians 12:58 so they kill him. 13:00 The Lord says, how are you going to do it? 13:03 He says, I will be a lying spirit 13:08 in the mouth of all his prophets 13:17 They will tell Ahab to go knowing well, 13:19 that he's going to be killed. 13:21 Let me ask you. 13:23 Does God use lying as a method to accomplish his purposes? 13:29 Do the loyal, faithful angels use lying? 13:32 They most certainly don't. Who was this spirit that was 13:35 present up there next to God's throne, who says, I'll go 13:39 down there and lead the prophets to tell him to go to battle 13:44 full well knowing that he is going to be killed. 13:46 It must have been Satan. I want you to notice, is 13:50 there is deliberation in the heavenly counsel concerning 13:55 earthly events. 13:58 We need to ask a very urgent question. 14:00 It's this, What was Satan doing in that meeting, 14:05 in the book of Job, and in the meeting in 2 Chr 18? 14:11 What was Satan doing representing planet earth 14:15 in that heavenly meeting? 14:17 Well, we've read this text in our first two lectures. 14:22 Luke 4:5-7, The Devil takes Jesus up to a very 14:27 high mountain. He shows him all of the kingdoms of the world. 14:32 He says to Jesus, all of these kingdoms and their power 14:38 I will give you. 14:40 They have been delivered unto me and to whom ever 14:44 I wish, I give them. 14:47 Who delivered this earth to Satan? 14:52 It was Adam. The reason why Satan went 14:57 to that meeting in heaven or went to those meetings 15:00 in heaven, representing planet earth is because, Satan had 15:05 taken over the representative role over this earth 15:09 He had sat on the throne where Adam was and he claimed 15:13 dominion over this territory. 15:17 The Devil usurped, or took away the position 15:22 of Adam. 15:26 We need to study a few things about Adam. 15:29 It's very interesting, In order to understand God's heavenly 15:33 counsel. We must take a look at Adam and God's original plan 15:38 for him. I'm not talking about Adam after he sinned 15:41 I'm talking about Adam as God planned originally for him 15:46 Turn with me to Luke 3:23. 15:54 Here we find a description of the genealogy of Christ. 15:58 I'm going to read the beginning of his genealogy 16:02 and then I'm going to read the end of his genealogy 16:05 It says there in Luke 3:23. 16:44 What is Adam called? Adam is called the son of God. 16:49 Was Adam the son of God in a special sense? 16:54 In a different sense then we are? 16:57 Of course he was. We are technically not sons of God. 17:01 We are sons of Adam. Sons and daughters of Adam 17:07 There is only one that can say they came out of the hands 17:10 of the creator. That was Adam. 17:13 Of course also Eve, that was taken from Adam. 17:17 In the strictest sense of the word, the only one who could 17:20 be called the son of God, is Adam. 17:24 Notice here that Adam is called the son of God. 17:30 Does that ring a bell, when you look at the book of Job? 17:33 Very Interesting. Who was the original son of God from planet 17:36 earth? It was Adam. 17:40 Allow me to read a statement we find in Patriots and Prophets 17:43 page 44. 17:45 Ellen White caught this point, she says. 18:15 She is quoting, Luke 3:38. She says, 18:18 He was placed as God's representative over the lower 18:24 orders of being. 18:28 Clearly we find Adam being called son of God. 18:34 There are some other interesting details about God's 18:37 original description and plan for Adam. 18:41 Do you know, that Adam was crowned in the garden of Eden? 18:46 Notice what we find in Psalm 8, 18:50 Which we read in a previous lecture. Psalm 8:3-5. 18:56 Here it speaks about the crowning of Adam 19:00 Psalm 8:3-5. 19:45 Allow me to read a statement we find in God's Amazing Grace, 19:50 devotional book by Ellen White, pg 44. She also caught this 19:54 point that we notice from scripture from Psalm 8. 20:40 We find Adam, the son of God, crowned to be king. 20:44 As a king, he represented planet earth. 20:50 I wasn't to read a statement that we find in the 20:54 devotional book, The faith I Live By, it is 20:58 also found in Patriots and Prophets, pg 48. 21:18 What was Adam? He was the father and representative 21:23 of the whole human family. In other words, Adam 21:28 was the representative, 21:31 the legitimate representative of earth. 21:36 Are you starting to get the interesting picture? 21:40 The son of God, crowned to be king, the realm 21:43 of his dominion, everything relating to the earth. 21:48 The birds of the air, the fish of the waters and the animals 21:52 that walk upon the land, all where the sphere of his dominion 21:57 and he is the father and representative of planet earth. 22:03 How was Adam garbed, how was he clothed 22:07 originally, before sin? Actually, 22:12 he was covered with a robe of light. 22:17 Like the garments that God wears. You know in the Bible 22:19 where it speaks about angels being clothed in white linen 22:22 and God the Father being clothed in white linen? 22:26 The white linen of the angels and of God, is a garment of 22:30 light. 22:34 Do you remember the women of Revelation 12? 22:37 It says, representing the true church, she's clothed with what? 22:41 With the sun. 22:45 So, the garments are garments of light, but what happened 22:48 when Adam and Eve sinned? What happened to the garment of light 22:52 They went away and they saw that they were naked. 22:55 So, they took fig leaves to cover themselves, but originally 22:58 they were robed in white garments. 23:02 Allow me to read again a statement this is from Patriots 23:05 and Prophets, pg 45. See, we go to scripture and then we read 23:09 the spirit of prophecy. 23:12 Ellen White says this. 23:51 We find Adam and Eve garbed with garments of light. 23:57 Lets summarize what we have studied. 24:00 First, Adam is the son of God. As he was originally created. 24:06 Second, we find Adam crowned. 24:10 Third, we find that the realm of his dominion is everything 24:14 connected with planet earth. 24:17 Fourth, he is the father and representative of planet earth. 24:21 He is robed with garments of light. 24:27 Of course if he was representative of earth, that 24:30 means that if God ever called a meeting, who would go 24:34 representing earth? Adam. 24:36 Who represents the United States of America, if there 24:39 is a meeting? Like the G7 meeting, it is often called? 24:44 Who goes representing our country? The President of the US 24:49 He is ruler so to speak. He's not a king. He's democratically 24:54 elected, but he is still the ruler. He represents the US. 24:59 In the same way Adam was ruler over the earth, 25:03 and he represented this world. 25:07 Something terrible happened, Adam, we've noticed in chapter 4 25:12 Also by the fact, Jesus calls Satan the Prince of this world 25:17 Adam lost his throne, he abdicated his throne. 25:21 Satan sat on the throne and claimed the earth. That's why 25:24 when he went to the heavenly meeting, he says, I've been 25:28 roaming over the earth. 25:30 Patrolling, supervising my territory, is what he is saying. 25:35 He comes among the sons of God. 25:38 Now, if the original son of God was Adam 25:40 a creature from a planet. Who must the other sons of God 25:46 be? Is it possible that they are Adams from other planets? 25:52 From other worlds? I believe so. 25:54 Lets go to the book of Revelation. 25:58 Revelation chapter 4, lets examine 26:02 a few of the things we studied in a previous lecture. 26:06 Revelation chapter 4, I want to begin at verse 2. 26:12 Doors open in heaven, John is invited to go through the door 26:16 when he goes into the door, he sees there 26:20 a throne. Lets read on about it. 26:36 How many were seated on the throne? One. 26:39 Why only one? We studied this in our previous lecture 26:42 The reason why there is only one, is because the angels 26:46 have all left to pick up Jesus to bring him back to heaven 26:50 That takes place in Revelation chapter 5. 26:54 We find this throne, where God the Father is seated. 26:59 I want you to notice, verse 4. 27:24 What position are the elder in? They are sitting. 27:26 What are they sitting on? Thrones. 27:29 Who sits on thrones? Kings. 27:33 Unless you don't believe these are kings. 27:36 lets continue reading. 27:38 And round about the throne were four and twenty seats: 27:43 and upon the seats I saw four and twenty elders sitting. 28:09 Who wears crowns? Kings. 28:12 There are several interesting details in this verse. 28:15 We need to know that these are not angels. We are going to 28:17 notice this a little bit later, or more clearly. 28:21 These are not angels. In scripture, angels are not 28:25 portrayed as sitting. They are always in movement. 28:29 Fulfilling the missions of God. They are ministering spirits 28:33 They don't have any sphere of ruler ship. 28:37 and furthermore, in scripture it self, there is no reference 28:41 as far as I am able to find, to angels having crowns. 28:49 We find here, that these beings 28:52 are kings, they are seated on thrones 28:57 they must be rulers somewhere. They're garbed in white garments 29:02 We also find in Revelation 4, that they are creatures 29:07 Notice Revelation 4:9-10. 29:12 It says in verse 9, And when these living creatures 29:17 give glory and honor and thanks to him that sat on the throne 29:21 who liveth for ever and ever. 29:50 They are worshiping the one on the throne as the creator 29:53 which means that they must be what? 29:55 They must be creatures. 29:58 So, you have creatures that are crowned 30:02 Creatures that sit upon thrones. Creatures that are garbed 30:07 in white garments. They have come to this meeting 30:11 place. Where everything's being prepared for the arrival of 30:15 whom? For the arrival of Jesus Christ 30:20 We noticed in our previous lecture that in the midst of the 30:25 throne, there were four living beings. 30:31 Which we identified as what? As seraphim. 30:36 Commanding angels with six wings. If you read 30:41 Ezekiel chapters 10 and 11, you'll discover that the 30:45 cherubim are described in very similar terminology. 30:48 In other words, present there, awaiting the arrival of Christ, 30:52 were cherubim and seraphim. 30:57 Then, you remember in chapter 4, Jesus is 31:02 missing, right? He's not sitting on the throne. In chapter 4 31:06 are the angels there? The angels aren't there. 31:09 There missing. You say, where is Jesus, where are the angels 31:14 The fact is, the one on the throne is praised, because he is 31:18 the creator. There is no reference to redemption. 31:20 But, when you get to chapter five, there are clear references 31:25 to redemption. Jesus appears and all of the angelic hosts 31:29 also appear, along with Jesus, because in chapter 5 31:33 Jesus arrives in heaven. 31:38 Go with me to chapter 5 and verse 5. 31:42 And one of the elders saith unto me, 31:45 Weep not: behold 31:50 the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, hath 31:55 prevailed. Prevailed over whom? Who did he prevail over? 32:01 He prevailed over Satan. Hath prevailed to open the book 32:06 and to loose the seven seals thereof. 32:11 And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the 32:15 four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood 32:20 a lamb as it had been slain. What did it cost this 32:25 lamb in order to over come Satan? Was he scared? 32:30 Yes, he was. It says, a lamb as it had been slain. 32:35 having seven horns and seven eyes. 32:39 Which are the seven spirits of God sent forth to all the earth 32:44 And he came and took the book out of the right hand of 32:48 him that sat upon the throne 32:51 Now in chapter 5, Jesus arrives. If you go to verse 11 you find 32:55 all the angelic hosts around the throne and they are singing 32:59 honor and glory, not only to the one seated on the throne, 33:02 the creator, but they are singing honor and glory 33:05 and praise to Jesus Christ, because he is the redeemer. 33:11 Are you catching the picture? 33:12 And present there, are the 24 elders. 33:18 Now, there is another person missing. 33:22 In the story of Revelation 4 and 5. 33:27 If this is the heavenly counsel, where at a certain time 33:31 the sons of God, who are rulers, are crowned and are garbed in 33:35 white and are sons of God. They are invited to come on special 33:40 occasions to heaven. Among those 33:44 to those meetings, came Satan. Whom would we expect 33:49 to come to this meeting, that takes place in Revelation 4, 5? 33:55 Well if the 24 elders are the representatives of the world 33:59 which seems to be the case, when you look at the comparison 34:02 between Job and Revelation chapters 4 and 5. 34:05 You would expect Satan to be there, but the fact is 34:10 that Satan is missing in the story of Revelation 4 and 5. 34:17 Do you know why? 34:19 Because at the cross of Calvary, he was overcome. 34:24 Go with me to John chapter 12 and lets notice this. 34:28 John chapter 12, lets see if it all fits together 34:33 John 12 verses 31-33. This is just a couple of days 34:38 before the death of Christ. 34:40 It says there in John 12:31. 34:44 The following. 35:07 This is not the talking about the original casting out 35:10 of Satan from heaven. This is another casting out. 35:12 Did you know the Devil was cast out of heaven at the cross? 35:15 He was cast out as a representative of this world. 35:20 Notice how Jesus did it. Verse 32. 35:23 And I if I be lifted up from the earth will draw all men unto me 35:29 This he said, signifying 35:31 what death he should die 35:35 What is it that cast Satan out of heaven according to Jesus? 35:40 It was going to be, his what? His death on the cross. 35:43 When Jesus says, It is finished to his father, 35:46 he is also saying, He is finished. 35:51 His head was crushed. 35:54 Satan no longer represents planet earth. 35:58 Now, Jesus ascends to heaven and the human race has a 36:02 new representative. 36:05 That's the reason the new testament calls Jesus 36:09 the last Adam. 36:13 In 1 Corinthians chapter 15 and verse 45. 36:17 Jesus is called the last Adam, because Jesus came 36:22 to recover that which Adam lost. 36:28 He did that. 36:30 I'd like to read some statements here, 36:33 These statements come from several sources 36:39 The first is in the Gospel Herald, March 1, 1901. 36:43 Notice what Ellen White says. She caught this point 36:47 That no long could Satan go around representing this world 36:50 when the sons of God gather in heaven. Satan can't go there. 36:55 Jesus has taken the place of Satan. 37:00 It says there. Christ was to suffer in our behalf. 37:05 Standing at the head of humanity 37:09 as representative of the race. What was Jesus going to do? 37:14 He's going to be at the head of humanity as the representative 37:18 of the race. He was to work out the character which every 37:22 follower of his, is to work out. 37:25 Through the provision which he has made. His infinite sacrifice 37:30 his life and death on earth. 37:34 So, who is the new head and representative of planet earth? 37:37 It is the second Adam, Jesus. 37:41 Signs of the Times, January 16, 1896. 37:45 We find these words. 38:10 Let me ask you. Who is the new king of planet earth? 38:13 Who is the new representative of planet earth 38:15 in the heavenly counsel? It's none less then Jesus Christ 38:20 Satan, the prince of this world, was cast down at the cross 38:24 of Calvary. Now, when ever there are meetings in heaven 38:28 Jesus represents this earth. He represents this planet. 38:35 So, who are the 24 elders of Revelation chapter 4? 38:42 I have no doubts in my mind, that by the characteristics 38:45 we have studied, that the 24 elders represent the 38:49 representatives of the unfallen worlds. 38:53 They're crowned because they are kings of their planets. 38:57 They sit on thrones because they are kings. They are garbed in 39:01 white. Just like Adam was when he was created originally. 39:04 They are the rulers of the worlds who where invited 39:09 to the inauguration of Jesus, upon his return to heaven. 39:14 Now, I know someone is saying, wait a minute pastor Bohr. 39:19 You are passing over a problem. 39:23 We need to solve this problem. 39:26 The problem is in Revelation 5: 9-10. 39:30 We have to deal with the problems also. Revelation 5:9-10 39:33 Do you know that traditionally in the Seventh-day Adventist 39:37 Church, the idea is, the 24 elders represent those 39:42 who resurrected with Christ. 39:45 Even the most resent books that you find at the ABC. 39:48 Teach that, the 24 elders are those who resurrected with Jesus 39:54 which we spoke about in our previous lecture. 39:56 Folks, it's not possible. 39:59 The 24 elders are there in heaven in Revelation 4 40:04 before Jesus arrives in chapter 5, with those delivered from 40:08 the grave. Are you understanding me or not? 40:12 Notice Revelation 5:9-10. This is where we have the problem 40:16 We have to solve it, because this morning after I presented 40:20 my sermon, or my lecture, I had someone say, Ahh, there is this 40:25 little problem. You said the 24 elders are the representatives 40:28 of the worlds but what do you do with this? I said, come tonight 40:31 He said, I can't. 40:33 We will have to get him the DVD. 40:36 Revelation chapter 5 verses 9-10. 40:41 It says there. Lets read verse 8, for the context. 40:46 When he had taken the book, notice this. The four beasts 40:51 and 24 elders. Did you catch this point? 40:55 The four living creatures, the 24 elders. Very important point. 40:59 Fell down before the Lamb, having everyone of them harps 41:03 and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints. 41:24 Were the seraphim's redeemed from the earth 41:26 from every kindred and tribe? Of course, not. 41:29 I asked that point for a purpose. 41:31 Notice what we find in verse 9. 42:27 What do we do with that problem? It seems to say that the 24 42:31 elders are redeemed from every nation on planet earth. 42:34 It seems to say that they are going to be kings upon the earth 42:38 This problem is not as complicated as it seems. 42:42 There is a problem in translation here. 42:46 The King James translators, miss translated verses 9:10. 42:51 By the way, almost every single modern version corrects 42:55 the problem in translation. Whether it's the NIV, the 42:59 New English Bible, Jerusalem Bible. All the modern versions 43:02 translate these two verses correctly. 43:06 The pronoun us, is not in the original. 43:11 It is added by the King James translators 43:14 For some unexplainable reason, in verse 10 43:19 in Greek, it says, They shall rein upon the earth 43:23 and they took the liberty of changing it to, we shall 43:26 rein upon the earth. 43:28 I'm not saying that the King James version is a bad version 43:32 what I'm saying is, no version of the Bible is perfect. 43:36 If you go to the Greek, in which the new testament 43:40 was written, it becomes very clear that the 24 elders 43:44 where not redeemed from every nation. They're actually singing 43:48 about the redeemed. The best translation actually says 43:52 in verse 9. And they sung a new song, saying thou art 43:55 worthy to take the book and to open the seals thereof 43:59 for thou was slain and hast redeemed to God by thy 44:05 blood, out of every kindred, and tongue and people and nation 44:09 Not us, but you have redeemed people from every sphere 44:13 of planet earth and hast us made 44:16 onto our God kings and priests 44:20 Not us, but you have made kings and priests, and then 44:24 they shall reign upon the earth. 44:28 Are you understanding what I'm saying? 44:31 Now, we solved the problem in translation. 44:35 We have a few more things we have to take a look at. 44:39 As we examine the heavenly counsel 44:42 Sometimes the best way to determine, who a group are, 44:48 is by studying, who they are not. 44:51 So, lets start disqualifying 44:55 the different groups that we know of in scripture 44:59 that exist in heaven and on earth. 45:02 Number 1, are the 24 elders the same as the 4 living creatures? 45:09 What are the 4 living creatures? They are cherubim and seraphim 45:13 So are the 24 elders cherubim and seraphim? No, because 45:18 in Revelation 4 and 5 they are distinguished 45:20 They are two different groups. 45:22 Are the 24 four elders part of the angelic host? 45:29 Maybe so, lets go to Revelation 5:11. 45:33 Revelation 5:11, they are not angels, not part of the angelic 45:37 host. Notice carefully, Revelation 5:11 45:42 It says that I beheld, and I heard the voice of many 45:46 angels, round about the throne and the living creatures 45:49 and the elders. 45:51 Are the angelic host distinguished from the elders 45:54 and from the four living creatures in that verse? 45:57 Yes, they are not cherubim, seraphim which are the leaders 46:01 of angels they're not part of the angelic hosts 46:05 They're not angelic beings. 46:10 What about those that resurrected with Christ. 46:13 maybe they are the ones who resurrected with Jesus 46:16 I've already mentioned that, that isn't possible. 46:19 because they are already present in the throne room 46:22 before Jesus arrives with those that resurrected 46:24 Are you understanding my point, or not? 46:27 The elders are already in heaven before Jesus arrives 46:30 with those that resurrected with him. 46:32 which means that, these beings were invited to the reception 46:36 of Jesus should arrive in heaven. 46:40 Somebody, might say, well Pastor maybe it's a different name 46:43 for an unnumbered host of the redeemed. 46:47 Again, nice try. In Revelation chapter 7 46:51 verse 13, if you go with me there. Rev 7:13. 46:56 We find that the 24 elders are actually distinguished 46:59 from the great multitude which no one could number 47:03 Revelation chapter 7, but lets begin at verse 9. 47:07 It says, After this I beheld a great multitude, which no man 47:10 number, of all nations and kindreds and people and tongues 47:13 Stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with 47:16 white robes, and palms in their hands. 47:18 Verse 13. And one of the elders answered, saying unto me 47:24 What are these which are arrayed in white robes? 47:28 and whence came they? Notice, one of the elders is asking 47:31 who are these great multitude? As seen by John. Would he ask 47:34 who is this great multitude, if he was part of the multitude? 47:38 Of course not. The 24 elders are distinguished from the great 47:41 multitude of the redeemed. 47:44 Someone might say, well Pastor Bohr, maybe their the ones 47:47 that are going to resurrect when Jesus comes. When he comes down 47:50 with a shout, with a voice of the archangel the trumpet of God 47:53 The dead in Christ will rise, they must be the 24 elders. 47:57 Won't work because the 24 elders were there at the Ascension 48:01 God's people won't resurrect until the second coming of Jesus 48:05 Someone might say, Pastor Bohr, what about the 144,000? 48:08 those that will be alive when Jesus comes, maybe their 48:12 the 144,000 with a different name. 48:15 Again, if you read Revelation 14:3. You'll discover that 48:19 the elders are distinguished from the 144,000. 48:24 These beings are not angels and they don't 48:28 fit into any category of human beings. 48:32 So, what are we left with? 48:36 They must be a different order of being. 48:40 They're not angelic and they're not human. 48:43 From what we have studied, they must be, the what? 48:46 They must be the representatives of the worlds. They must be 48:50 the Adams of the different realms all across the universe. 48:55 I'd like to read a portion of a passage that I read in 48:59 our previous lecture. This is found in the Desire of Ages 49:02 pg 834. Ellen White caught 49:05 This long before I did 49:08 There's not many people that have the same view that I do 49:12 of the 24 elders, but I believe that we have firm biblical 49:15 evidence and spirit of prophecy evidence for what I'm presenting 49:19 In Desire of Ages, Ellen White says this. 49:22 Speaking about the moment when Jesus arrives into the city 49:25 Pg 834. 50:14 By the way, who would those be in Rev 4? 50:19 The four living creatures. The 24 elders would be, what? 50:25 The representatives of the worlds. 50:26 Then Ellen White says this. 51:39 If the one seated on the throne is the father, as she identifies 51:42 If the four living creatures are cherubim and seraphim 51:47 If the Lamb, as though he had been slain, is Christ. 51:53 If the innumerable host that is singing are angels, because 51:57 she interprets them as angels. 52:00 Must we also expect to find in this passage the identity of the 52:05 24 elders? Absolutely. 52:08 Whom does she say they are? 52:11 She says the representatives of the unfallen worlds 52:15 the sons of God. 52:20 He points to the tokens of his triumph 52:36 You know the interesting thing is, God makes decisions 52:39 in heaven by consulting his heavenly counsel. 52:44 There's an interesting reference in the book Story of Redemption 52:49 There Ellen White explains when Satan 52:53 who was Lucifer at that time, was rebel rising in heaven 52:58 and he was spreading rumors against God, turning the 53:01 heavenly beings against God. 53:02 It got to a point, where God gathered 53:04 the heavenly counsel, which would be the representatives 53:08 of the worlds, and the angels. 53:12 He said, this is what's happening, it's being done in an 53:17 underhanded way, but this is what's being done. 53:19 What do you suggest we do? 53:24 Do you know what the counsel said? 53:26 Expel him from heaven. 53:29 The decision to expel Lucifer from heaven was not a unilateral 53:34 decision by God. It was a decision made 53:38 by the heavenly counsel. God works by committee. 53:48 Is it that nice? 53:50 You know as a Pastor I've learned that I can't make 53:52 unilateral decisions, I have to have backing of the board. 53:59 So God, before he make any decision regarding this earth 54:03 important decision he gathers the heavenly counsel 54:08 to decide what is going to be done. 54:13 I need to conclude this, I want to just mention 54:17 that the 24 elders are mentioned 54:21 in six chapters 54:26 of the book of Revelation. 54:30 The first reference is in Revelation 4, and I want you to 54:33 notice the relationship. The first chapter the 24 elders are 54:36 mentioned is chapter 4. They are praising the one on the throne 54:39 because he is the creator. 54:42 Jesus hasn't arrived yet. 54:45 They are found in chapter 5. In chapter 5, 54:50 they are praising Jesus 54:55 because he is the redeemer. 55:01 See, they were invited there before Jesus ascended 55:03 they're there for the celebration when Jesus arrives. 55:07 To welcome the commander home. 55:10 You know, there are four other places in Revelation 55:14 were the 24 elders are mentioned I just going to mention them 55:16 very quickly. Revelation 7:13, which we read. 55:21 Where the great multitude without number is found in front 55:24 of the throne of God. 55:26 In other words, they have been redeemed. 55:29 They're in heaven. Are we going to meet the 24 elders someday? 55:33 Are we going to meet the representatives of the worlds 55:35 Yes, because when the great multitude is there, the elders 55:37 are there. 55:40 Next place they are found is Revelation 11:16-17 55:44 We don't have time to read all these verses, but I want to. 55:47 Revelation 11:16-17, it speaks about the moment when Jesus 55:50 Christ receives his kingdom at the end of time. 55:54 Present there, once again, are the 24 elders. 55:58 They are mention in Revelation 14:3. 56:02 In revelation 14:3, we find a description of the 144,000 56:07 they are standing on Mount Zion, they're victorious 56:10 They have overcome the beast his image and they refused the mark 56:15 Now they are victorious on Mt. Zion, and along with them 56:19 are the 24 elders. 56:22 The final reference is in Revelation 15. 56:26 There we find a great multitude in heaven. By the way, the Lamb 56:29 is there, the four living creatures are there, 56:31 the one who is seated on the throne. 56:33 All of the beings mentioned in Rev 4 and 5 56:35 are there. 56:39 They are singing a song, in honor of God. 56:44 No longer is he the creator only, not the redeemer only, 56:48 but has judged the great harlot, who persecuted God people. 56:53 He has delivered God's people from their enemies. 56:57 Now they stand in heaven, victorious along the 24 elders 57:02 singing praises to the one who is sitting on the throne. 57:07 The good news is, very soon we are going to meet the 24 elders. 57:11 Isn't this good news? We'll be able the beings from other 57:14 worlds. Some people are bent out of shape because Ellen White 57:17 Says that she once spoke to someone from a different world 57:21 It shouldn't bend you out of shape, we find in Revelation 57:23 6 and 7, that John is speaking to one of the elders. 57:27 Isn't God wonderful? Praise the Lord. |
Revised 2023-11-06