Participants: Cheri Peters (Host), Cliff and Freddie Harris
Series Code: CLR
Program Code: CLR000004
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00:10 Hello and welcome to Celebrating Life In Recovery.
00:12 I am Cheri your host and today we will be looking at 00:15 the importance of coming out of hiding. 00:17 Saying out loud to God I am a mess. 00:20 Come in and join us. 00:49 The Bible says that he who covers his sins shall not 00:52 prosper, but whoever confesses for his sake walks away 00:55 stops doing it will have mercy. 00:58 That is in Proverbs 28:13. 01:00 I love that because when I first came to Christ, I'm a 01:03 mess, I'm a heroin addict, I was in a drug house trying 01:06 to kill myself, and I have so many different things that 01:10 were just were wrong. 01:14 There was nothing that I could pull from and say but 01:18 this part of my life is okay. 01:20 I came to God, and the more I brought to Him, the more 01:24 that I said to Him, you know I am such a mess here 01:27 and I need help here. 01:28 I never felt condemned, what I felt like is that He just 01:31 took all that and said, I love you and I can walk you out 01:35 of that, and I forgive you. 01:37 We're going to talk about this on this show. 01:40 We're going to talk about confession, we are going to 01:42 talk about what do I bring to God, what don't I bring to God? 01:45 What is God's response to what I put on the table? 01:47 It is so amazing, and if you get this you will not be 01:51 afraid to work on any of your issues. 01:53 But before we get started I want to introduce you to 01:56 who is at the café today. 01:57 I have some incredible folks here, some friends of mine. 02:00 Fa'asoa, and I know that you are in the seminary now and 02:03 going to be a Pastor so I'll call you Pastor Fa'asoa. 02:07 So now before you get your Pastorate, I want to confess 02:10 a bunch of stuff, No! I'm kidding. 02:13 Mark is from the Oklahoma conference, the treasurer, 02:16 the most important person at the conference, I think. 02:18 Leticia, you are a R.N. and married to Fa'asoa and just 02:25 not just had a baby, recently had a baby. 02:28 Susan I love you and we are going to be talking about 02:30 all your stuff on another show, I love that. 02:33 Cliff and Freddie Harris, I just want to say thank you 02:37 so much for coming. 02:38 Where actually going to do your testimony Cliff, and you 02:42 are going to tell us a little bit, or a lot about how God 02:44 brought you to place of healing. 02:48 Then, what you are doing with that, so I'm going to 02:51 be blessed by that. 02:53 Before we get into that, I want to talk to you a little 02:55 bit about confession. 03:04 You know I like that because when I met God, like I said, 03:08 I was such a mess and I'm strung out on heroin. 03:11 I was depressed, I was so done. 03:14 I had lived 10 years on the street and was involved in a 03:18 ton of different things and I didn't believe there was a 03:21 decent person on the planet. 03:24 I have to say that a lot because I was on the street for 03:30 10 years and if I'm in a Pastor or if I met a Doctor, 03:33 met somebody that was in a legitimate field, I met them 03:38 because of darker addictions. 03:39 I met them because they had either sexual addictions or 03:42 drug addictions, or they wanted to walk on the darker 03:45 side and those things. 03:47 I didn't meet a lot of people who are dishonest 03:48 about who they were. 03:50 So when I met God and realized that He just wanted me to 03:54 come to Him just as I am. 03:57 I know there is a song, and that might sound a little 03:59 trite to say, but He said come to me just as you are. 04:02 I was sitting, like I said, on a drug bed in a drug house 04:06 trying to kill myself and God was so incredible. 04:09 He really did look at me and said you are lovely to Me. 04:12 I was such a mess, I was such a mess and I remember 04:16 sitting there thinking what do you mean I'm lovely to You? 04:19 You know I was molested all my life, my father was caught 04:25 the first time when I was three months old. 04:26 There was never a time that I had some healthy stuff 04:31 growing up and from that going on the streets at 13 years 04:37 old, getting into drugs, had a pregnancy at 12 years old. 04:42 Lost some twins, got into stripping clubs in dealing 04:48 drugs and all that stuff. 04:49 I'm sitting there and feel like the presence of God is 04:52 there and He is saying, I adore you, you are lovely. 04:55 I'm thinking this can't be God because I would think 04:59 that God would be pointing His finger at me and saying 05:01 you know what, you are a mess. 05:03 You have to clean up and every thing about you is not good. 05:07 You are not good, that is what I expected God to say. 05:10 He didn't, He said I so love you, don't hurt yourself 05:13 anymore, you don't need to do this anymore. 05:15 I remember just feeling so amazingly loved. 05:19 I even got a vision from God that I was innocent in His 05:24 eyes and I started to weep because I thought innocent! 05:28 I've never been innocent, I'm angry and full of junk. 05:33 He said you know what? You have always been that way to 05:37 Me and I promise you, if you stand up and trust Me, 05:41 I will walk you into this relationship, this image 05:45 I was showing you. 05:46 I'm thinking, I would give anything, if what You're saying 05:49 is true, I would give anything. 05:51 I started to come to Christ and I remember thinking, 05:54 this was so crazy, I remember thinking I do trust You. 06:02 As I read the Bible, the Bible says God is going to give 06:05 me a new mind and the new heart and all that. 06:07 I do not have even one thing that I think about, and Cliff 06:12 you are going to know this is true and say the same thing 06:14 I am sure, but one thing I thought about that was normal. 06:17 The things that went into my head, this example, the first 06:23 time I went to church, I meet God, I turn it over, 06:26 I trust Him that He is going to help me in recovery. 06:28 I go to church and I'm sitting there and the offering 06:31 plate goes by, I think I really need some money. 06:35 I could really use that, and it took me five years to 06:39 let the offering plate go by without stealing something. 06:42 It was like you know 20 bucks who is going to miss it? 06:46 It was just like everything I thought about was bad. 06:51 And every single time I would cry, I would be in prayer 06:55 and just cry and say God, you know what? 06:57 Nothing, I can't even, the Pastor with say something that 07:01 I think could be taken a little in an off-color way. 07:04 I would be busting up and people were looking at me 07:07 like what do you think He said. 07:09 I said you don't even want me to say. 07:11 And just an example of that, there were soccer moms 07:15 watching a soccer game and I had a little girl and she 07:18 was just so cute, in soccer. 07:20 People with say Cheri, why you so quiet? 07:23 I was thinking because everything I think is a little 07:25 twisted, so I don't want to just say a lot of things. 07:29 They were saying no just say whatever comes to your mind. 07:32 They said, I just don't want to. 07:36 So they had a whole soccer team that got held up behind 07:40 a train, right? 07:41 So they get hold up behind a train and they are late for 07:44 the soccer game, everybody is waiting for them. 07:46 So when they got there, everybody ran out into the field 07:49 and people were talking on the sidelines about times 07:52 they had gotten held up and were late for some things. 07:55 I'm listening and trying to be normal. 07:59 When I try to be normal it's really funny, because is this 08:01 normal, or maybe this is normal, I bet this is normal. 08:05 I don't know how to be normal, I will have to forget that. 08:08 So I started laughing and somebody said what's so funny? 08:13 Oh you don't want to know. 08:14 Oh we want to know. I said no, no you don't. 08:16 Come on Cheri we want to know. I said okay. 08:19 One time I was stuck at a light, and I remember being 08:25 stuck there and sat there for the longest time. 08:29 I changed radio stations, I did whatever and then the 08:33 sun started coming up, and I thought I've been here 08:36 a long time, about six hours. 08:38 Somebody said six hours you are stuck at a light? 08:41 Well I was high on acid, they said what! 08:44 It was like all the normal moms was just like maybe 08:48 you shouldn't say anything. 08:52 But God was never like that, He said just tell Me stuff. 08:56 If you have things you need to share with Me, things about 08:59 drugs, inappropriate thinking, or wanting to steal from 09:02 the offering plate, or what ever. 09:04 I couldn't drive down the street after I got in recovery, 09:07 I had 42 traffic warrants for my arrest 09:09 when I got in recovery. 09:11 So for years and years and years I constantly looked in 09:14 my rearview mirror and if there was a police officer 09:16 there, and now you have to know I'm a Christian and 09:18 legit and doing everything right. 09:20 I got a nursing degree and went back to school, but if a 09:24 police officer pulled behind me, my heart would just race. 09:26 Oh I'm going to prison, this is terrible. 09:28 I wasn't even doing anything wrong, but God just said 09:32 confess it to Me, bring it to Me. 09:34 I'm not going to ask you to do like a thousand repentative 09:39 prayers about something, I'm not going to ask you to be 09:42 good for the next year and then I'll forgive you, I will 09:45 forgive you as soon as you bring it up to the table. 09:47 As soon as you bring it to the table I am not going to 09:50 make you spill your own blood for that. 09:53 I've already done that, you don't have to do it and I 09:54 promise you I will put My hand on you and heal you. 09:58 I thought no way, and I start bringing things to the table, 10:02 not the ugly stuff first, you know what I mean? 10:05 First of all I brought the drug addiction. 10:07 Oh no I didn't, I brought all my victims stuff first. 10:10 Things that were done to me, because it was 10:12 somebody else's fault, first I put molest, the fact that 10:16 my mom didn't love me, the fact that I never learned to 10:19 trust anybody, the fact that I had detachment disorders 10:22 and bonding disorders and didn't know how to socialize 10:25 because I'm underdeveloped socially. 10:27 And I put that stuff on the table and He would do this 10:29 incredible thing, He would clear the table and set this 10:33 banquet, the stuff wouldn't stay on the table very long. 10:37 I thought how did You do that? 10:39 So then I started putting the darker stuff on there, 10:41 the things I was ashamed about, the things that I probably 10:44 won't even share here in the café because some things are 10:47 between you and God. 10:48 That stuff I will put on the table, and I will put it on 10:51 the table with my hands shaking, I'm so afraid because 10:54 I can't stand it because if You don't accept me, I don't 10:58 know what I am going to do. 10:59 If You can't forgive this, I don't know what I'm going to do 11:02 when I put it on the table and I felt His smile. 11:04 I can forgive all of it, there is nothing that you have 11:08 or have ever done, then I cannot forgive. 11:11 I thought man, how cool is He! How cool is He! 11:15 I felt like that with every single thing. 11:18 One time I was driving down the street, and I was having 11:22 an incredible time with God. 11:24 I was loving Him and singing some worship songs and 11:27 I had the radio on. 11:29 The song came on 'I can only imagine', you guys know 11:31 that song? Café audience: yes! 11:32 I can only imagine, what will I do when I'm walking 11:36 with Christ, when I'm standing there and looking at Him? 11:39 How cool, will I be able to sing? 11:41 Will I stand in awe? Will I be silent? 11:43 Nobody that knows me thinks I will be silent, but I may 11:46 be, it's like you never can tell. 11:49 Then there is a line that they keep repeating, 11:51 Will I dance for you Jesus or in awe of You be still? 11:55 I was a stripper in a club when I was 13 years old. 11:59 I've seen some really dark stuff when I was young. 12:03 I started crying when I heard that line, I started just 12:07 weeping because I thought that was the worst part of my 12:10 past that I could think of. 12:11 Of course I am not going to bring that to heaven with me. 12:14 Through the Holy Spirit, He silently said, you will dance 12:17 for Me and it will be amazing, it will be holy. 12:20 I will give all that back and you will be full of joy. 12:23 I have forgiven you Cheri, let that go. 12:26 I thought God, how good are You? 12:29 So I want to say that we are going introduce you to the 12:32 guests and have a testimony, but I want to tell you: 12:42 you know what, have you ever heard of bankruptcy court? 12:45 In bankruptcy court is when you are overwhelmed with 12:50 bills, and you can afford to pay the bill's you have. 12:53 There are laws in place to step in and help you out. 12:57 I'm not suggesting bankruptcy, but listen to this analogy. 13:00 It's going to be weak compared to heavenly things. 13:03 I think it explains a lot. 13:05 In bankruptcy court if I come up and give you the credit 13:09 cards, and give you the debt and show you where I am 13:11 stuck at in medical bills and stuff. 13:14 The judge can only forgive what I have given them. 13:18 The laws say that they will, anything I give them they 13:21 will forgive, but if I forget some things, 13:24 those things aren't forgiven. 13:26 God says get this, all of heaven wants you to bring everything 13:32 to God, every single thing. 13:35 Everything that you think, everything you have done, 13:38 everything you have tried to hide in your life bring 13:40 it to God, do not let the devil play with 13:43 you with it anymore. 13:44 Don't let your own head play with you anymore. 13:46 God says, I want to take it from you, I want to forgive 13:50 you, and if you need it back, sometimes we have so much 13:54 damage, sexual damage and all that stuff. 13:57 God says I created you to be a sexual beings and I want to 14:00 give you that back, but let me clean it up and give it 14:03 back and you will be amazed, it's cool! 14:05 You won't have all that dark stuff with your addictions. 14:10 God says, I promise you that whatever you give to Me, 14:13 I will forgive, and a lot of times God says, I will 14:17 forgive you before it even comes out of your mouth. 14:19 I am waiting for you to bring it out. 14:21 I know what's there and I know it's keeping you tied up. 14:23 I want to forgive you. 14:25 So we are going to go ahead and break. 14:27 I want to introduce you to Cliff and Freddie Harris. 14:30 They are amazing and Cliff has been through some stuff. 14:34 Probably Freddie too, because she married him. 14:37 So stay tuned will be right back. 14:44 We want to introduce you to a beautiful book called 14:47 'Steps to Christ', each program in this series is 14:50 based on a different chapter showing you how to become 14:53 a Christian and gain victory over your addictions. 14:56 'Steps to Christ' is our gift to you, free of charge. 14:59 Just call us at: 15:04 During regular business hours, or write to: 15:28 A man that I have a privilege of presenting to you today, 15:31 has a long history of success in his field. 15:33 His accomplishments are many, first of all he is an honor 15:37 graduate from Colorado State Penitentiary. 15:39 Received his bachelor's degree in burglary in 1977. 15:43 He returned in 1983 and received a Master's Degree in 15:46 larceny and prior to completing his higher education, 15:50 he enrolled in numerous institutes, including the Denver 15:54 County Jail, Arapahoe County Jail, Adams County Jail 15:58 Lake Alford Florida County Jail, Long beach California 16:02 County Jail. 16:03 His Elementary School includes a Dallas City Jail, 16:06 Overland Ohio Jail, Denver County Jail, 16:10 and Aurora City Jail. 16:13 His professional experience includes 10 years as a 16:15 heroine addict, 8 years as a cocaine addict, with 16:18 20 years of marijuana use in 5 years of 16:21 amphetamines and barbiturates. 16:23 He is direct experience includes robbery, IV drug 16:27 addiction, burglary, extortion, assault and battery, 16:30 larceny, contempt of court, filthy language, trespassing, 16:34 and possession of narcotics, but 16:37 he comes to you today as a new creature in Christ 16:40 with 21 years of sobriety, a new wife and family, 16:43 owner of a home, President of a drug alternative program, 16:46 and an author of a book called 'Death Dance'. 16:48 It is my great pleasure to introduce to Doctor, Ah, well 16:53 maybe Doctor of all that junk. 16:55 Cliff Harris, I just want to say thank you for coming. 16:57 Thank you for joining us, and Freddie Harris, I want to 17:00 ask you, is all that true? 17:03 It's all true, but I met him after the fact. 17:06 Okay Cliff you have to tell us what's up. 17:09 How did all that start? 17:11 How did you get into sobriety with all that? 17:13 Well, I guess some of you are wondering where I became 17:20 a Christian, came into the church and was born and 17:24 raised, I'm a third generation of Seventh-day Adventist. 17:28 Cheri: no way! 17:29 You know my father always took us to prayer meeting, 17:34 and he always took us to Sabbath school. 17:37 I even attended Pine Forge Academy. 17:40 I have had cousins who are Presidents of Conferences. 17:44 I have a cousin who was a President of the Union. 17:47 But all that means nothing unless we have a personal 17:53 relationship with Jesus Christ. Cheri: Amen! 17:57 The bottom line, one thing I want you to get out of this 18:01 story is how much Jesus really loves us. 18:07 When we are not even thinking of a Jesus. 18:11 It's like Jesus who? 18:15 As a teenager I wouldn't let you smoke in my car. 18:20 I wouldn't let you drink in my car, but I ran with the 18:26 wrong group of guys, I wanted to be one of the fella's. 18:30 Didn't want to be left out, I can remember those guys 18:34 when they introduce that marijuana to me I got mad. 18:37 I got upset, what are you guys doing smoking that dope? 18:40 But I wanted to be part of, so I sucked on the weed. 18:47 Marijuana is okay, have you ever heard of anyone dying 18:51 or OD ing from smoking too much weed? 18:54 No, marijuana is cool, marijuana makes you laugh at 18:59 everything, makes you eat up everything in the house. 19:03 Marijuana is okay, but pretty soon marijuana is not good 19:08 enough, me stick a needle in my arm? 19:14 I came from a Christian family, a Seventh-day Adventist 19:18 family but I've got 2 marks on this arm and I've got 2 19:23 marks on this arm. 19:25 And it will be there the rest of my life. 19:28 When you start doing heroine, this is how you look when 19:33 you do heroin, in the chair motionless, 19:40 don't want to move, just enough to bring the cigarette 19:45 up to your mouth, that is your high. 19:48 But pretty soon, has anybody ever been to jail? 19:51 Cheri raises her hand, Okay. 19:53 Let's take a room maybe half this size packed with men, 19:59 packed, no windows, no benches and there would be one 20:03 toilet in that corner. 20:06 How would you like to go to the bathroom with an 20:08 audience of this size? 20:10 You will brother if you mess around, and pretty soon 20:14 a man will holler on the loudspeaker, strip! 20:17 That means take off all your clothes, socks included 20:21 if you have any on, and you will wait another 20:24 4 or 5 hours before he processes you. 20:27 Changes because I want to feel good, because I want 20:33 to be one of the fella's. 20:35 I wanna to tell you just one little story of my son. 20:42 Every time I tell this it hurts because you have to go 20:46 back, it is not that you just sit here and tell 20:50 a story, you have to relive it. 20:56 My son was just 12 years old, he was just 12. 21:03 I was downstairs in the basement and I had a syringe 21:10 in my arm and he came running down the steps and he 21:18 stopped at the second step that made him eye-level 21:22 with me and he pointed his finger at me and said, 21:26 daddy that's what you went to jail for last week. 21:34 And I know it's nothing but the Holy Spirit speaking 21:36 through him saying, Clifford get it together. 21:39 I'm not ready yet Jesus, I have to get high one more time. 21:52 Do you know what it's like to live with a drug addict? 21:55 Your wife comes home from work and she goes in her 22:00 bedroom and shuts the door. 22:02 Your kids come home from school and they go in their 22:05 bedroom and shut the door. 22:07 And you are sitting in the chair out, looking crazy, 22:11 because I want to feel good. 22:15 Because I want to be one of the fella's. 22:24 You know I sold my daughters bicycle. 22:29 She comes home from school and her bicycle is gone, 22:32 but that's okay, your daddy, daddy. 22:40 When you do drugs brother, you're dead, you're dead. 22:46 Drug's become the number one factor in your life. 22:52 You don't care about your mama, you don't care about 22:56 your children, you don't care about your wife, 22:58 you don't care about yourself. 23:02 Nothing else matters. 23:10 To tell you how bad you get, I wouldn't tell this 23:14 for a long time, you know I even tried to sell the dog. 23:24 When nobody would buy him I threw him out of the car. 23:35 You see these two fingers, nothing but Jesus. 23:40 A guy shot me because I beat him out of his drugs. 23:46 When he knew I beat him out of his drugs, he came in 23:50 and went out to the car and got his pistol and came back 23:54 in and put his hand down like that. 23:58 He just brought his hand down a little further he would 24:01 have gotten me in the side, but Jesus, when we are not 24:07 even thinking about a Jesus. 24:10 I love you Clifford, I love you. 24:19 But you know what, I'm going to jump ahead a little 24:29 because there is a lot in this story, it's the things 24:35 you do to your children. 24:40 I remember one time I was out on bond. 24:49 My mother, she had cancer and she was dying. 24:59 My mother lived in Florida and I was in Colorado. 25:08 My ex-wife let me, I wanted to go see my mama, 25:12 I knew it was going back prison, I knew there was no way 25:17 you going to get probation, you have to go. 25:20 You're going, well I thought about it like this. 25:26 I got to go see my mama because what if my mama dies 25:31 when I am in prison, I could never live that down. 25:36 All these things go through your mind. 25:38 I come from a good mama, a good mama. 25:42 Well my ex-wife let the kids go with me. 25:49 I think I have maybe $20 to drive all the way from 25:53 Colorado to Florida to see my mother. 25:59 I drove there on a stolen credit card, got to Florida. 26:09 Went to jail there to see my mother. 26:16 You know what my mama said to me? 26:17 I'll never forget these words, never. 26:22 My mama, this is what my mama is telling me. 26:26 She is on her deathbed and do you know what 26:28 she said to me? 26:30 She wasn't angry, Clifford I wish you had never come 26:36 to see me because I knew you were still on that stuff. 26:41 This is what my mama is saying to me. 26:45 Your mother is telling you I don't want to see you. 26:52 Well, do you know I lived a double life? 26:59 I had a family, three children and I bought my home 27:04 when I was 21, my wife couldn't even sign because 27:09 she wasn't old enough. 27:10 You see I didn't start doing drugs until I was married 27:13 and had three children, didn't do nothing like that. 27:20 Because I wanted to do what my father did, my father 27:23 took care of the family, that was it. 27:28 I wanted to do it my father did, but got off track. 27:33 Satan grabs a hold, and you let him grab a hold. 27:38 Well I decided that I would 27:47 change my life and start 27:56 looking at myself, look where you are. 27:59 The second time a friend of mine, I want you to 28:06 understand this because I'm going to jump way ahead, 28:08 we don't have a lot of time and there's a whole lot of 28:11 stuff in between there. 28:12 You see are thing about our lives is about decisions. 28:20 See we as Christians, everybody, not just Christians. 28:26 We as human beings only have two choices in life. 28:30 Two choices, that is you are either on Satan's side 28:33 or on Christ's, that's all you got, that's it. 28:37 All human beings only have two choices in life. 28:42 Now which choice are you going to make? 28:44 What is it, it's decision time, do you understand? 28:49 A friend of mine named Jerome, Jerome comes to me 28:56 and says hey Harris we can pull this burglary. 29:00 I'm like no man, I don't want to do that because if 29:07 we get caught I'm going back to the penitentiary. 29:11 No man, we ain't going to caught, we've got this in 29:14 the bag, no problem. 29:17 So I have to make a decision now, he is telling me 29:21 you know your wife is looking at you crazy and you 29:24 need to take care of some bills. 29:26 Cheri, I'm over here saying tell him no, no. 29:28 And I'm like no man because if we get caught I'm going 29:35 back to the penitentiary and they don't 29:37 give you probation, no. 29:39 That being no problem, it took me three days to make 29:46 a decision, you think I'm thinking about some bills to 29:49 pay, I'm thinking about all the cocaine I could have. 29:53 Let me tell you, we did it and I made the wrong decision 29:59 in my life, the wrong decision. 30:02 Let me tell you we did it and the police came down on us 30:09 like you see on TV. 30:11 I will never, never forget it. 30:16 He had me lying down in a mud puddle, Colorado mud. 30:23 He had his foot on the back of my neck. 30:26 He had a shotgun at my head and every time I try to rise 30:29 up to breathe he'd shoved me back down. 30:34 Changes, because I want to feel good because I wanted 30:39 to be one of the fella's. 30:42 I said to myself, well here you go again Harris. 30:47 Here you go again and it happened exactly like I said. 30:54 I went back to the penitentiary and they gave Jerome 30:58 probation, and I don't want you to forget that name. 31:04 I said to myself, look at you Harris, here I was 20 years 31:12 do you hear me, 20 years of my life wasted for what? 31:24 Year's that I could never get them back, they are gone. 31:27 But I can't worry about that right now because I have 31:31 Jesus in my life now and I have to move on with Jesus. 31:39 You know what I did? I went into the penitentiary, 31:44 and you know the penitentiary is nothing like 31:49 no city or county jail. 31:53 When you going to the penitentiary they give you a 31:54 number up here, you know I refused to remember my number. 32:01 Had it right here on the clothes, I don't know it. 32:04 When you go back a second time, 32:07 they give you the same number again, same number. 32:14 Cheri: so what they are saying now is you are a nobody. 32:20 You know when I went in, I got to say this, you see it's 32:30 like this, when I went in I had nothing. 32:36 I had one pair of underwear, they were mine, 32:42 that was mine, it belonged to me. 32:45 They were holey but they were mine. 32:47 Do you hear me, that was all I had. 32:50 Cheri: I hear you but that's more information than 32:53 I wanted I think. 32:54 They were holey but they were mine. 32:57 Well I got to thinking, while I'm in the penitentiary 33:02 now, I'm in the there and my family, everybody in my 33:08 family are Adventist, everybody. 33:12 Nobody, everybody, I didn't want my family to 33:19 know, but they knew. 33:21 Well I called my sister, stole from her. 33:27 I called my sister, now they are getting ready to release 33:30 me, and I called my sister because once they release you 33:37 they want to know where you're going to stay, who you're 33:39 going to stay with, how many times you're going to the 33:42 bathroom, they want to know everything about you. 33:46 Cheri: it's very true. Clifford: it's true. 33:48 They want to know, well I called my sister. 33:52 My niece answered the phone and the first thing, she went 33:57 and got her mother, and the first thing my sister said to 34:00 me, she picked up that phone and she said I love you, 34:05 I love you. 34:09 Well while I was in the penitentiary I went to the 34:18 prison library, the only reason I went to the prison library, 34:23 there was a woman in there and I want to see the woman. 34:29 She was ugly but she was a woman. 34:35 Wanted to see a woman. 34:37 Cheri: I love you, did I tell you I love you? 34:42 Well when I went in there I found this book in there 34:46 called the 'Desire of Ages'. 34:48 Well I knew what the book was, I knew was a book on the 34:52 life of Jesus Christ. 34:54 I check the book out and brought it back to my cell and 34:58 put it on my table. 34:59 Never opened the book. 35:01 When it was time to take it back, I took it back and 35:05 check it right back out and brought back to my cell, 35:08 put it on the table and never opened the book. 35:11 It's Holy Spirit working, not that He wasn't working 35:15 before, but I'm hearing now. 35:17 Cheri: open the book. 35:19 You know I ain't opening the book. 35:24 So I got to thinking, I wonder who is the Pastor at the 35:29 church right now, I wonder what is happening at prayer 35:37 meeting right now? 35:38 Wishing I was at prayer meeting, because if I was at 35:41 prayer meeting I could go home after prayer meeting. 35:44 Do you understand what I'm saying? 35:51 Well when it came time to be released, I made a decision 35:57 while I was there, while I was there. 35:59 You know what, when I get out of here I'm going to go 36:02 to church, I'm going to go to church. 36:09 They released me early one Sunday morning. 36:15 Jerome came and picked me up, 36:16 you remember Jerome don't you? 36:18 Cheri: he got probation. Cliff: yeah! 36:20 Cheri: and it was his idea. Cliff: yeah! 36:22 Cheri: I hate that. 36:27 I went to my sisters and I got a whole week, now I made 36:30 a decision now is going to go church right? 36:32 Talk back to me ye all, am I right? 36:34 Yeah, I made a decision, I'm going to go back to church. 36:38 While I have a whole week to go before it's time to go 36:44 to church, the first Sabbath morning my sister comes to 36:49 me, and she says, Clifford are you going to Sabbath school 36:54 this morning? No, not going to Parkhill. 36:58 Not going over there because those people are going to be 37:01 asking me where I have been and what I have been doing. 37:04 I do want to hear that. 37:06 She didn't give me no lecture, she didn't say nothing. 37:12 Her and her husband just went on out the door 37:15 and went on to Sabbath school. 37:17 Now I don't care what you think, I don't care what you 37:22 think, I don't care what you think and I don't care what 37:27 you think, I know He didn't send Gabriel. 37:32 I know Jesus came to me, it wasn't that I had to see Him, 37:40 or I heard His voice, it was from within. 37:47 It was from within, in Jesus said to me, hey boy, 37:55 you know I have watched over you, I have been there for 38:00 you, I have protected you, now it's decision time. 38:05 Now if you don't take it, you know that 38:09 you are going to die. 38:11 You know I was ready in five minutes to get Sabbath school, 38:14 and I have been going to Sabbath school ever since. 38:19 And I want to say to you out there, when the Holy Spirit 38:23 speaks to you brother or sister, you better take heed. 38:29 You see I know, I know that if I had not gone to Sabbath 38:34 school that Sabbath morning, I would be dead today. 38:38 I would be dead today, you see because I was the kind 38:42 of drug addict like this. 38:44 If you're spending $50, I'm spending a hundred and 38:47 I am not giving you any of my drugs. 38:49 You see drugs to me was a job, everyday, every day 38:56 just like you go to work everyday. 38:58 Just like you go to your job to the conference 39:00 office everyday, right? 39:02 Am I right? Guests: yes 39:03 and you sit down there and do those numbers and 39:06 whatever you do, that is everyday right? 39:09 You have to be there are certain time, right? 39:10 Well every day I'm stealing everyday. 39:14 Do you know I have been arrested in just the Denver area 39:20 over 40 times, that doesn't include all them other places. 39:27 But I'm going to tell you something, Jesus is good. 39:34 Do you hear me? Jesus is good. 39:38 There is a lot in the story that I have left out. 39:40 Cheri: do you know what I want to ask you a couple of 39:43 things, and if anybody else has any questions. 39:45 I want to ask you did you get the sense when God finally 39:49 said, you know what Cliff this is decision-making time. 39:52 When Jesus said you have to decide and you got up and got 39:55 dressed, did you get the sense of how much He loved you? 39:59 Even through all that junk? 40:02 It wasn't so much Jesus and I wanted to pray and study the 40:10 word, my whole thinking was go to church, just sit down 40:18 on the pews, sit down. 40:20 I didn't want to be there, but people all knew me from 40:24 the teenage days, they didn't want me they are either. 40:29 I'm serious, this one lady she knew me in the first 40:34 Sabbath I'm there she comes up to me and says, 40:36 what you doing here? 40:39 I looked at her and said I'm doing the same thing you're 40:42 doing here, you see she wanted to judge me. 40:47 But Jesus says, you do the loving and leave the 40:51 judging up to me. 40:53 It doesn't matter if I go there 17 times, 40:56 you except me every time I come. 40:59 Jesus will handle the judging of me. 41:01 Do you understand what I'm saying today? 41:03 Cheri: I understand that more than anything. 41:05 So that was my concept, every time the church door was 41:08 opened, prayer meeting, Sunday morning meeting any kind of 41:11 meeting I'm sitting down, I'm in here. 41:15 Boom, just be here. 41:17 So does anybody have any questions? 41:19 Before the question I want you to see how we met. 41:23 He came to church, he saw me on Sabbath, that Sabbath. 41:28 He proposed to me on Sunday. 41:30 Cheri: shut up there is no way. 41:33 I said yes and three months later we were married 41:37 so with all this rebellion, coming out of jail, and all 41:41 that stuff, you meet him, and what made you think that 41:45 he was ready for marriage? 41:47 Because I had spent a year with the Lord, without dating, 41:49 and I just said Lord, if you want me to have a husband 41:53 I'll have one, and when I saw Cliff, He said he's the one. 41:56 And my son introduced us in the lobby of 42:00 the Denver Parker church. 42:01 One thing, when I got out, I knew not to get involved 42:08 with a female, don't even go there. 42:11 I remember her girlfriend, but I never saw her at church. 42:15 Her girlfriend try to talk to me and I was, no, because 42:19 I have to go this direction, this is what I got to do. 42:23 And if I get involved with a female that would take me 42:27 off track. Cheri: even an ugly one. 42:29 Even an ugly one. 42:30 Freddie: but I did know him, he's saw me in the Lord 42:33 impressed him the same thing, that I was the one. 42:36 The Holy Spirit told each one that that's the one. 42:39 That's why, I've been in Adventist all my life and 42:42 never drank, smoked, I would ever and out the front door. 42:44 But I just had peace and knew that this was the guy. 42:47 Because all of a sudden I think that he comes into the church 42:50 and you are so beautiful and had this incredible 42:52 background and God just said, you know what you guys are 42:56 together and that's how I think He blesses us with that. 42:59 Fa'asoa, did you have a question? 43:00 Yeah, I'm sitting here listening to Cliff and I am 43:04 thinking, Cliff I am that 12-year-old boy looking you in 43:10 the eye and probably in tears saying, daddy this is what 43:16 got you in jail. 43:18 Because your dad was dealing drugs. 43:20 You remind me so much of my dad. 43:22 And you know I was sitting here thinking, I want to throw 43:26 this glass at you, I really do, but I'm not going to do 43:31 that because at two years of age I seen, when you asked, 43:36 when you asked about living with the drug addict. 43:39 I know firsthand what it's like to live with the drug 43:43 addict, and then I was thinking, Jesus has saved me from 43:47 my junk and Jesus is still working on my dad. 43:56 I shouldn't give up on my dad because Jesus doesn't give 43:59 up on us that easily, that quickly. 44:01 Cliff: Jesus doesn't give up on us, we give up on Jesus. 44:08 We push the Holy Spirit away, we have to choose, 44:13 He always has His hand out there for us. 44:17 All we have to do is grab it, it's simple. 44:21 We pray that your father will grab His hand one day. 44:24 Now one other thing I want to say to you, and put this in 44:29 the right perspective, my mother never saw the results of 44:34 her prayers, she never saw me get clean, she never did. 44:39 But she never stopped praying for me. 44:41 But my dad saw it, you see, and you understand? 44:46 My daddy told me one time when we were sitting at the 44:49 breakfast table, because I was the one out of all my brothers 44:52 and sisters, I was the one that took care of him. 44:56 And he said to me one time, Clifford who would have 44:59 thought that you would be the one to take care of me 45:03 after all the trouble you gave me? 45:05 Getting you out of jail and all that stuff and loads 45:09 of other stories, but he said your momma would've 45:12 been proud of you. 45:14 - My question Cliff, is what has become of your 12-year-old son? 45:19 I'm glad you asked that. 45:21 My children love me. Freddie: they never did drugs. 45:32 I have the best relationship with my children 45:35 and my grandchildren. 45:39 Let me tell you something about us males, 45:42 about us addicts. 45:44 We deal with this a lot in our program, because the men 45:48 they come in, this is one problem they will not let go of. 45:53 Do you know what that is? Their children. 45:57 Wife can go, momma can go, anybody else can go, but their 46:02 children, there is something important about their 46:07 children that they don't want to lose them, it's part of 46:11 them so they're always worried about their kids. 46:16 So that is something I treasure the most because my 46:21 daughter told me once, when she was married, that her 46:26 daughter was in the hospital. 46:30 And I was married to Freddie then, and my daughter said 46:33 to me, we was in the cafeteria of this hospital. 46:37 She said to me daddy I want you to go on with your life. 46:42 I don't want to get too close to you because I don't want 46:48 you to hurt me no more. 46:49 I didn't say nothing to her, I didn't give no, well I'm 46:55 going to do this and I'm going to do that. 46:58 None of that, I just lived the life, didn't do nothing 47:04 extra, I'd gave her no money and trying to convince her 47:10 no, all we have to do if you want to let somebody know 47:14 something, that's what witnessing is, live the life. 47:20 Because she saw the change in me, now it is daddy when 47:24 are you coming to get the kids, daddy when, you know. 47:27 Cheri: you can be trusted now. 47:29 You see now she can love me and that security is in there. 47:34 And that's what we addicts have to do, we have to get back 47:40 to having respect for yourself. 47:44 That is with God in the center of your life. 47:49 I still have drug addict behavior, look at me I'm kind of 47:53 fat, I've got it up there because of food. 47:58 To have to say to myself, Harris, because I weighed lot 48:03 more than now, I said you know what? 48:08 If you can conquer or the Lord can help you get off 48:13 those drugs can deal with food, you have became a food addict. 48:17 Cheri: because an addiction is an addiction, is an addiction. 48:22 But I want to say before we have other questions come up 48:25 before we leave my parents are addicts, Fa'asoa is that 48:29 every day I know and have so much faith that God is going 48:32 to do something in the family that I just keep them in 48:36 prayer, and is God walks me into recovery I pray like crazy 48:40 over them, but it's hard to forgive and pray, 48:44 and all that stuff. 48:46 If anybody out there has people around them that are 48:49 using, just pray like crazy. 48:51 Mark you had a question? 48:52 Yes I would like to go back to your statements about your 48:56 youth, you made a statement that was very interesting. 49:00 You were surrounded by family of Adventists, and yet none 49:03 of that did any good without a personal relationship 49:07 with Jesus, now my question is this. 49:08 I'm sure in our viewing audience we have many parents 49:12 who are trying to raise their children to be Christians. 49:16 They're conscientious, they are praying, can you give 49:23 them any advice about how to avoid the decisions that 49:28 you made, you said your parents were very conscientious. 49:33 Was there anything they could have done perhaps? 49:37 No, you see I get a lot of calls all the time from parents 49:44 parents or, this is a tactic that Satan gets on one of us. 49:50 If he can get one in the family, he has got everybody. 49:55 He's got the whole family, it's all in a combination of 50:01 things, because I had one lady one time tell me, I asked 50:06 her, she was telling me about her son. 50:08 She said she would give up her crown for her son. 50:11 Mark: yeah like Moses. 50:13 You don't give up your crown for your son, oh no, do you 50:17 see this girl right here, I love her to death. 50:19 But salvation is an individual matter. 50:25 And parents when their child goes astray, they get to 50:33 thinking, well what did I do wrong? 50:36 If I hadn't spanked them, maybe I didn't say the right word, 50:42 I should've done this or should of done that. 50:45 No, because you have done all you could do, and now it is 50:50 up to the child, you've raised them the best way you know 50:56 how, you tell me. 50:57 Not a one of us as parents, you have a young child and 51:01 you're going to make mistakes, we all make mistakes. 51:06 But still it is their choice. 51:10 I chose, nobody put a pistol up to my head and made me 51:16 do drugs, it was my choice. 51:19 Cheri: but you know I think a lot of times parents would 51:22 love the answer to that, Mark, is just saying know if you 51:25 do these five things your child is going to work out just 51:29 perfect, and I want that answer too because I have a 17 51:33 year old but there is no magic thing to do or not to. 51:37 It's just a matter of each person having their own 51:41 testimony to walk out. 51:42 You can train to people the same way and one will 51:46 go totally opposite, I never understand that but you 51:50 can train them exactly, but like you said it's 51:52 back to choices. 51:53 So Susan did you have a question? 51:55 Yes I'd like to ask the question, when was it that 51:58 you really knew you hit rock bottom, that God was knocking 52:02 on your heart, letting you know that this is enough? 52:08 I think it all began when I first was arrested for the 52:12 second burglary for the time I was going back to the 52:17 penitentiary for the second time. 52:19 When I really looked at it, and going through all this 52:25 stuff and going back into the penitentiary for 52:29 the second time, for what. 52:31 And when I went into the penitentiary for the second 52:34 time, guys were coming up to me saying hey Harris we've got 52:38 some weed over here, man let's get high. 52:40 I'm like no, no thank you, that's the reason 52:42 why I am in here now. 52:44 You see it was all about I know that I'm beginning to look 52:50 at 20 years of it, I knew there was something better than 52:55 where I was, to be in this situation I'm in. 53:00 It just wasn't good and I knew something better could go 53:04 on the rest of my life, better than beside 53:06 in and out of jail all my life, not having any 53:11 money, I used have a beard out to here, hair on my head, 53:14 and keep the same clothes on, can you hear me? 53:18 Same clothes on me for two to three weeks at a time. 53:22 Would not even change them, would not take them off. 53:26 Underwear crusted. 53:29 Cheri: that is more information than we need. 53:32 No you have to look at this, seriously you have to look 53:37 at this as sin, sin is ugly, I don't care what degree we 53:44 put it, it's ugly without Christ, sin and life is ugly. 53:50 Cheri: a you know I want to say time has gone by 53:53 us too fast in a wanted to say thanks so much for 53:56 being on the show. 53:57 I know that all this stuff that you dealt with God 54:01 has been faithful in your life and in your family 54:04 and in your Ministry. 54:06 So I'm praying and we have you back on so we can hear 54:08 all about the Ministry. 54:10 Clifford: oh sure I would be glad so much. 54:11 We'll be right back stay with us, 54:13 Celebrating Life In Recovery 54:21 Amazing stories of real people in real situations 54:24 discussing issues that really matter. 54:26 The complete first season of Celebrating Life In Recovery 54:29 is now available on DVD and can be ordered by calling 3ABN: 54:33 Or order online at: 54:36 Hosted by Cheri Peters, this season follows principles 54:39 from the book 'Steps to Christ'. 54:40 See for yourself, how God changed the lives of the 54:42 convicted, the accused, and victims of terrible crimes. 54:46 You won't want to miss a moment 54:47 of these powerful interviews. 54:56 Welcome back, in 'Steps To Christ' It says that your 54:59 mass your sin has deadened moral perceptions the wrongdoer 55:03 does not even discern the defects of his character or 55:06 realize the enormity of his evil he has committed unless 55:09 he yields to the convincing power of the Holy Spirit. 55:12 He remains in partial blindness to his sin. 55:15 His confessions are not sincere or earnest to every 55:19 acknowledgment of his guilt, he adds an apology or an excuse 55:23 of his course declaring that if they had not been for 55:26 certain circumstances it would've happened, if I didn't 55:28 have my parents weren't such a mess this 55:31 wouldn't have happened. 55:32 If I wasn't molested this would've happened. 55:33 If I didn't do drugs this would happen. 55:36 If I didn't have all this stuff thrown at me, 55:38 it wouldn't have happen. 55:39 You know what, I felt the same way, I used to say the same 55:42 thing and I read in the Bible which was hysterical to me. 55:45 I read in the Bible in Genesis where it says that Adam 55:48 and Eve starts out perfect. 55:51 God created them perfect in this garden 55:52 and it's so amazing. 55:53 He walks up to this tree and this snakes says, hey baby, 55:58 have an Apple and he convinces her you're going to be 56:02 wiser, your can be prettier, or whatever it is. 56:05 He seduced her and she takes the Apple. 56:06 Then she says her husband oh man, hey baby, have an Apple. 56:11 So all this stuff happens and then God comes and 56:15 immediately Eve says, you know what the snake made me do it. 56:18 He convinced me of all this stuff. 56:20 And Adam says the woman that You made for me, she made me 56:24 do it and it is like everybody blames everybody. 56:27 Finally it's like, you know what, God I think it's Your 56:30 fault and God says no, no, no. 56:33 You know what I want to help you, I want to help you. 56:36 I want to transform your life, I want to give you 56:39 forgiveness, all you have to do is tell Me hey I'm sorry. 56:44 I'm a mess I need your help. 56:46 I'm in jail again, I hit my wife again, I'm looking at 56:50 porn again, what ever it is. 56:52 I'm angry again, I'm critical again or whatever. 56:54 God says you know what, just tell me. 57:02 Okay, I did it, I need help, you need to be free from 57:06 this junk in the Bible says: 57:16 it is so amazing for me to think about a God who created 57:20 everything, a God that put everything into existence and 57:24 says you know what I want to heal you. 57:26 I theme text Isaiah 57: 18 it says I know all your stuff 57:30 I know all your junk and I want to heal you anyway. 57:33 So you know what I'll see you next time. 57:34 Next time we'll be covering some topics on steps to 57:37 recovery, but until then remember, always remember that 57:40 God is crazy about you, and me too. 57:43 Come back again! |
Revised 2014-12-17