Participants: Ron and Celeste Lee, Cheri Peters
Series Code: CLR
Program Code: CLR000007
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00:11 Welcome to Celebrating Life In Recovery, I'm Cheri
00:13 your host and today we are going to look at change. 00:15 Some people will say I don't even know how to change, 00:20 I don't know what needs to be changed. 00:21 So today we will get what Jesus Christ does to get us 00:25 to a place where we except change and our very desires 00:29 will change so join us as we look at that. 00:59 I laugh when I think about when I came to Christ, 01:01 I was such a mess. 01:03 I was in a drug house trying to kill myself, had an 01:07 encounter with God and felt beyond a shadow of a doubt 01:13 that He could change my life and I needed to find 01:15 a place to recover. 01:17 So I end up calling the only person I know, the only 01:20 person I know that was fairly normal. 01:23 I had been homeless for 10 years, I had been on the 01:25 street for 10 years surrounded by addicts so when I say 01:28 fairly normal, it isn't even close to what some people 01:31 would think normal was, but I called them up. 01:34 I said you know I need some help desperately. 01:36 I need to find a place to recover. 01:38 When I met God in the drug house, I was trying to kill 01:41 myself and God never once told me Cheri you know what? 01:43 Now that you've got it, now that you understand I'm God, 01:47 I want you to clean up, I want you to stop doing drugs, 01:49 I want you to stop lying whatever, all He said to me 01:52 is that I absolutely adore you. 01:54 I adore you and I love you and I want to help you to heal. 01:58 In that it gave me the courage to stand up and say 02:01 you know what? I want to get away from this stuff, 02:03 these drugs and all of that. 02:05 So I called this person who has a sister who is a 02:08 Christian and says that I can stay at her house, right? 02:10 I drive, I don't know eight hours to get to her house. 02:15 I get to her house and I am withdrawing from drugs 02:18 because I don't realize I say no drugs and 02:21 I'm going to find a place to recover but I am not 02:23 right now in a good place. 02:25 In that He sets me in a place, in a Christian home with 02:30 somebody that is actually a vegan vegetarian and amazing. 02:33 And I always joke that this women was quite a bit older 02:37 than I am but she was a health nut. 02:40 So she was so healthy she would say we need to get out 02:42 side and in the sun and all that stuff. 02:46 We need to hike and I'm thinking I smoke three packs of 02:48 cigarettes a day, I'm a recovering heroin addict, I am 02:51 withdrawing from drugs and I'm thinking you go hike. 02:54 I'm actually okay, and I remember just being and it was 02:58 so funny but she loved and nurtured me and those things. 03:02 When I finally trusted her enough to really allow her to 03:06 teach me the Bible, to teach me about what God says, 03:09 she started teaching me different things and one of 03:11 thing she taught me was the story of Mary Magdalene. 03:14 Reading Mary Magdalena in the Bible for those of you that 03:16 don't know is a prostitute, right? 03:19 She was drug to Jesus feet and thrown at His feet and people 03:24 were saying, you know what was her crime she should be 03:27 stoned to death, she should be killed. 03:29 God doesn't do that, Jesus doesn't do that, He looks at 03:32 her with so much compassion that He really convicts them 03:37 as God does with us, of their sin, of their damage. 03:41 He says whoever doesn't have any sin throw the first 03:44 stone at her and we will condemn her to death. 03:46 We will stone her to death. 03:48 And pretty soon everybody walks away, she is so hesitant 03:51 to even look up at Him, and He just looked at her with 03:54 so much love and says I don't even condemn you. 03:56 I love you, go and don't hurt yourself anymore. 03:59 And when I heard that the first time, go and don't hurt 04:03 yourself anymore, that God is not saying go and be good, 04:07 go and don't embarrass Me, He is saying go and don't hurt 04:11 yourself, don't put all the stuff into your life, don't 04:14 let people abuse you, don't get lost in your addictions. 04:18 He is literally saying I just so love you. 04:20 She felt so much in love from Him that she followed Him 04:23 the rest of her life, the rest of her life she was so 04:26 dedicated to God and wanted to stand holy in the presence 04:30 of a holy God because of the love she felt from Him. 04:32 Not because He told her she had to, this is just her 04:35 response from that love. 04:37 The next story they tell me, and I love this one. 04:39 She tells me the story about the demoniac and says 04:43 a guy in the Bible and he is ugly, he is ugly. 04:48 He was like cutting on himself with stones. 04:50 He is beating people up, he's chained up and foaming 04:54 at the mouth and is filled with demons. 04:56 Did I tell you he is ugly, did I tell you I mean 05:00 he is ugly, ugly, ugly. 05:02 And the whole time she is talking I'm thinking what 05:04 happened to him, and she says again did I say that this 05:07 guy was ugly? I'm thinking you did. 05:10 And so she says ugly, filled with demons, cutting on 05:14 himself and people tried to chain him up and he would 05:16 break the chains, they were afraid of him. 05:18 I'm thinking the whole time, let me know what happened 05:20 because I think I dated that guy. 05:22 So she is acting like this is a guy that never has 05:26 existed, and I'm thinking you have never been on the 05:28 streets, you've never been in a lot of prisons because 05:31 there are people that are filled with demons. 05:33 There are people that are so filled with rage that kind 05:36 of stuff is normal and I want to know what happened. 05:39 She said Christ stood in front of him and everybody else 05:42 ran, everyone that Christ was with ran away. 05:46 But Jesus stood there and new that in the heart of heart 05:50 of this guy, he wanted to be normal. 05:53 He wanted to be well and Jesus set there and called 05:56 the demons out and rebuked them. 05:58 God got them out of this guy's life and the next time 06:01 people saw him he was sane and in his right mind. 06:03 That is absolutely incredible, this guy that was filled 06:07 with demons is now free and in his right mind, sitting 06:09 next to Christ. 06:11 And I love because Christ is getting ready to go somewhere 06:14 else because the town folks flip out because of all the 06:18 stuff that happened and asked Him to leave the region. 06:20 And this guy says can I go with you please? 06:22 And as I'm hearing this story I'm thinking I can so 06:25 relate to that guy. 06:27 I know that there are a lot of people I was on the 06:29 streets with that if they knew there was a God out there 06:33 that could bring those kind of changes, can take some 06:35 body from crazy to being filled with demons and having 06:38 all that anger and can bring healing into the life. 06:42 Not only healing where you are sane, he's got restored 06:46 sanity, I'm in my right mind. 06:48 All that anger for first-time in my life is gone and I'm 06:50 thinking Amen, Amen and as I looked at the Bible, as I 06:55 first of all left this woman's house, I have done recovery 07:00 she has taught me some things and I leave her house and 07:02 join a church and it was hysterical because I don't know 07:06 how to dress. I don't know how to dress, I don't know 07:09 how to talk, I don't know how to eat right, speak right. 07:13 I could read a little bit, maybe second grade level but 07:17 I was fairly illiterate. 07:18 I came running in the church, hello I'm here and 07:22 I love God and how amazing is that? 07:25 What was funny is that He loves me and I remember 07:28 coming in and the church I came into was very 07:31 conservative and very standoffish with my excitement 07:36 and definitely with the way I looked. 07:38 Because I came into a very conservative church I put every 07:41 single piece of jewelry that I owned on. 07:43 My best outfit was a little short skirt kind of thing. 07:48 I just thought I looked adorable and they didn't agree with me. 07:52 I was smoking three packs a day so I had billows of smoke 07:56 following me and I just showed up. 07:59 I was so in love with God, and I know that 08:02 He was so in love with me. 08:03 The response I got in the building was not, they weren't 08:11 as sure, they weren't as sure and it was so funny. 08:15 So I sat down and tried to behave and I remember for 08:18 a while I would come in and spray perfume all over because 08:22 I thought maybe they don't like the smell of smoke. 08:25 And remember I'd just come from homeless less so I don't 08:28 have a lot of money so the perfume was very cheap and 08:31 I was sprayed from head to toe and I would come in. 08:34 And what was interesting to me was the entire time 08:38 God was saying, I love you, I adore you, I think you are 08:43 beautiful and I will bring changes into your life. 08:47 So we talked about it, I was so used to being on the 08:53 streets, I was so manipulative, if I was uncomfortable 08:57 in any way, if I was unsure of myself in any way I have 09:01 and detachment disorder because of all the early 09:03 molest and that means I could leave in my head and be 09:06 somewhere else, or be someone else or whatever. 09:08 I was so adaptable that I could do that at the drop of a 09:11 hat, in fact in my recovery to learn to stay present was 09:15 a huge thing, I mean it was a huge thing. 09:18 So I ended up coming into the church trying to do the best 09:22 I could and someone told me at one point you know Cheri 09:27 the reason you are such a mess is that you are not eating 09:31 right, and I've got to tell you there is so much truth to 09:34 that, what we put in our body and how we take care of 09:37 our self is a big deal, it's absolutely a big deal. 09:40 But the way this person brought it across as very much 09:43 condemning, it wasn't brought across in love at all. 09:47 So I kind of took it like what do you mean? 09:51 It wasn't that I was molested since the day I was born 09:54 in homeless or 10 years and all that stuff, 09:56 I'm just not eating brown rice and I remember just 09:59 thinking how crazy is that? 10:02 I went to a class on how to eat right and I was in the 10:06 first row of this class because for one, I don't know 10:10 if you can recognize I am somewhat ADD. 10:13 So I am a little hyper and I am in the front row because 10:17 I do not want to miss anything, because if this is going to help 10:19 me survive I want to learn any thing I need to learn. 10:22 I got so hurt in this class because the only thing 10:26 that I got from it is that if I ever eaten or done 10:31 anything like eating wrong, or done something wrong to 10:35 my body I couldn't get it spiritually. 10:37 I'm sure that wasn't the message, but I got this 10:40 message and it felt like somebody was reaching into 10:43 my chest and pulling Christ out, literally pulling Christ out. 10:47 I was afraid and I ended up leaving and went home and I 10:51 was sobbing, snob dripping out of my nose sobbing and just 10:55 saying God this cannot be true because I can't survive. 10:58 I don't know what I'll do if God isn't real. 11:01 If your love for me isn't real, if I have no chance of 11:04 coming out of this I'm not sure what I would do. 11:07 And God gives me this, I hate to say vision because that 11:11 is an odd thing to say, but He gave me this vision of 11:15 what happened to me years ago and it really happened. 11:18 I was a drug house and waiting for a shipment of heroin 11:21 to come in and I was withdrawing. I was not in a good 11:26 place. When the drugs came in, I slammed the same amount of drugs 11:30 I've always slammed and it was too much. 11:32 The drug was more potent than what I have been used to. 11:35 I immediately overdosed, because when you inject drugs 11:38 the overdose is pretty quick, so I immediately overdosed. 11:41 I started seizing, I lost bowel and bladder control. 11:45 I started throwing up and the other addicts in the room 11:47 were trying to resuscitate me. 11:50 And this is really important, I'm sorry if it grosses 11:53 someone out, but they were trying to resuscitate me and 11:56 what God showed me in this prayer is what that looked 11:58 like at the time. 12:00 I don't know how He does that but that's what I felt like 12:02 He was showing me. 12:03 It was ridiculous watching other addicts trying to breathe 12:07 for you and that stuff. 12:09 As I threw up they were trying to clear my mouth of the 12:12 vomit and still breathe for me and it was disgusting. 12:14 I remembered that when I first got into praying I felt 12:18 horrible, I felt like I wasn't worth anything, that 12:21 I wasn't good enough, I wasn't eating right and I didn't 12:23 fit in this group of normal people. 12:26 I didn't fit in the church and I couldn't sit anywhere 12:29 else and I was panicking and now He is showing me this 12:32 vision that was absolutely disgusting. 12:34 In the vision I felt like I was there looking at it, 12:37 I could smell and feel what it felt like to be in that place. 12:41 They took me to the shower and were trying to put ice all 12:43 over me to revive me and those things. 12:46 All of a sudden I just felt like crying God, 12:49 what are You doing? This is not helping me feel better. 12:53 I remember that panic, that I am not feeling better and 12:56 He said something that changed my life forever, for ever. 13:00 He said to me really clearly through the Holy Spirit, 13:03 not a voice but through the Holy Spirit, Cheri I loved 13:06 you as much when you were laying on the floor of a drug 13:10 house, in your own feces as I do right now when you are 13:13 trying to be a Christian. 13:14 Do not make this a behavioral thing, I am your Father. 13:17 I love you, I loved you since the day you were born, even 13:21 in the womb I loved you and please don't mistaken that. 13:25 Do I not want you to not hurt yourself? Do I want you not 13:28 to damage yourself by this sin you bring in your life? 13:32 Yes, but that doesn't change my love for you. 13:34 Do I what you to eat right? Yes because it helps you 13:37 to reestablish your neural chemistry so you depressions 13:39 will lift and all that stuff. 13:41 Do I want you to drink water? Yeah and be out in the sun 13:43 and take good breaths and stuff that is all part of 13:47 recovery, yes that is it but don't mistaken that for My 13:50 love for you, I am your Father. 13:53 I absolutely adore you and when you get that I can bring 13:56 changes into your life that the very desires that you have, 13:59 the very things that are so second nature to you right now, 14:03 the manipulation and all that stuff you will so start to 14:07 begin to hate the things that you love now. 14:09 Love the things that you hate now that I am God and bring 14:12 Holiness into your life where you will long for that and 14:16 desire that, and that is all scriptural. 14:18 As I learned that, God how cool is He? 14:21 So stay tuned, we are going to meet some of the guests here 14:25 and I want you to listen to the stories of 14:27 Ron and Celeste Lee as we interviewed them as how God has 14:31 changed their lives and brought that into their life and 14:35 made Himself more real to them. 14:41 We want to introduce you to a beautiful book 14:44 Called 'Steps To Christ'. 14:46 Each program in this series is based on a different chapter 14:49 showing you how to become a Christian and 14:51 gain victory over your addictions. 14:53 'Steps To Christ' is our gift to you free of charge. 14:56 Just call us at: 15:22 Welcome back to Celebrating Life In Recovery, on this 15:25 segment I would like introduce you to Ron and Celeste Lee 15:27 and thank you so much for coming on the show. 15:31 You know that I love you guys. - we love you too. 15:35 Good, good, the first time I met Ron, and I have to tell 15:38 you this, I thought it was absolutely hilarious. 15:41 I am in Nebraska, we're doing I think a woman's retreat or 15:45 something but the men decided that they had to come. 15:47 So everybody comes and we had a great time. 15:52 As I met Ron, I instantly feel I bonded with you and have since 15:58 the day we met, and I said to Ron on the way out is that 16:01 you would be amazing in prison ministries. 16:05 So I'm wondering I know he's the elder of the church and 16:08 saying have you done prison ministries and do you remember 16:11 what you said to me? 16:12 I made some comment like I can't go there because of what 16:17 I would do? I'm like what? What would you do? 16:20 I think I responded to you I would smack somebody. 16:24 Yeah you said that, I'd probably smack somebody in the 16:28 face, Na-na-na-na and I started to laugh because that was 16:33 the funniest answer I had ever heard. 16:35 So I said do have some anger issues? And I think Celeste 16:40 just about fell off the chair, anger issues let me tell 16:44 you. It was that encounter, when we first met, and there 16:49 is not much more said about that. 16:50 A little while later I get a call from Celeste and go 16:56 over the call. 16:58 I think if this is the call you are referring to I was 17:02 ready to move out, I was done. - packing your bags. 17:05 I was like Cheri I can't handle this, I have been here 17:08 enough and I am not dealing with this anymore, 17:10 I'm out of here. 17:12 And what she was telling me is you don't understand, 17:14 this guy has a rage problem and you are right on, and all this 17:18 kind of stuff on the phone and I finally said to her, which 17:23 I think was amazing, is that if God could change it would 17:28 you stay? And there was silence. 17:31 Because at that time I didn't really think God could, 17:33 because I have been praying that for ever. 17:36 I was really at the decision point of can 17:39 I even still believe in God? 17:41 Because nothing is happening here, why should I still 17:44 believe in Him when nothing is happening? 17:47 I had really sat down and thought some of that through. 17:50 There was a point in the conversation I thought was 17:54 incredible when you are honestly saying even if it 17:58 changes right now I don't think I can step back in. 18:02 I just think I am so done, and at that point the only 18:06 thing I could think of is that both of you need 18:09 to be at my house. 18:11 Come over to the house, and its funny Ron because you 18:15 didn't think you would come. 18:17 No she didn't, she basically put me in a crisis and said 18:22 we have got to go today, this was a Wednesday afternoon. 18:26 She said we got to go today, and I said I've got a 18:28 contract that is signed and I have to be on the job Monday. 18:31 You're the boss, - yeah on Fridays. 18:35 So she said well I'll drive all Sunday to make sure 18:39 you get home, either we go or I'm gone. 18:41 I realized at that moment it was way past serious and 18:45 it was time, I knew I needed help but didn't 18:48 know what to do. 18:49 So we're going to step into this situation and its the most 18:54 amazing thing watching God, I love watching God. 18:56 I love the way He comes into our lives when it is hopeless. 18:59 When we absolutely don't think He can do anything and maybe 19:02 don't even want Him to do anything. 19:04 I don't even know if I believe in You anymore and 19:06 watching God step in. 19:08 Before we get started with your testimony, because they are 19:14 my favorite, my favorite, is I want to take you to John 3:8 19:20 In John 3:8 it talks about where Christ says "the wind blows 19:24 "wherever it wishes, you can hear the sound it makes but you" 19:29 "do not know where it comes from or where it's going. 19:31 "It's like that way with everyone born of the Spirit." 19:34 I never really got that until somebody said in a military 19:38 term, and Ron will appreciate this, is during some of the 19:42 major wars the Marines would come and they would land on 19:46 an island that was occupied by the enemy. 19:48 If they could get a hold on that island it was just 19:53 a matter of time before they could take back the territory, 19:57 take back the land. 19:59 I really believe in this God said just give Me a hold, 20:03 just raise your hand and get in the car and drive there 20:06 and God will wow you with what He does. 20:10 So you show up at my house and I'm only going to set up the 20:12 story and let them take it over. 20:14 You show up at my house, and I look at both of them and 20:18 they are both furious. They are both furious. 20:22 And they are furious at each other, their furious about 20:26 the trip and I can't even imagine being in the place you 20:30 are in and driving all the way with each other in a car. 20:35 And so you get to the house and I remember hearing first 20:39 of all your testimony Ron, and I want you to just talk 20:43 about where you come from the time before you were sent 20:47 to Vietnam, so start from childhood. 20:50 As far as I can remember, ever since I was raised in a 20:56 quote unquote Adventist home, my father was very abusive. 21:01 We were beat and my mother was very abusive verbally 21:05 mostly but also physically. 21:06 So that's set up a lot of anger and rebellion and I was 21:09 told I wasn't going to make it because I wasn't a doctors 21:13 kid and told later in my life I would make it because 21:16 I didn't go to college. 21:17 We were forced into you will read your Bible or your going 21:22 to hell, you will do this and all we did until I was arrested 21:26 down the road was read the Bible and do chores 21:28 no fun, no play, no love. 21:30 A lot of abuse, a lot of hatred, a lot of anger. 21:34 I developed a love of anger and hatred and pretty soon 21:38 I started hating everybody, teachers and parents, and cops 21:43 teachers and brother and it just escalated. 21:47 When someone talks about that much hatred that much anger in a 21:51 child it is unbelievable, we talked about it a little earlier 21:55 about the demoniac and his life was so out of control that 21:58 almost a demonic possession because of the anger. 22:02 I really believe that Satan just stays on you, just 22:05 stays on you, and when you talked about being arrested 22:08 what was that about? 22:10 I got involved in, we were very poor, and I got involved 22:15 with another friend in a homicide which involved a cowboy 22:21 and we made it and he didn't. 22:23 So I'm going to go there, he picked you up and you guys 22:28 decided to rob him or whatever and beat him up and 22:31 he ends up dying. And you were how old? 22:35 I was 17 getting ready to turn 18 so they were going to 22:40 try me as an adult and that led to some lock up time. 22:44 Not long because they eventually came down and offered me 22:48 military service, which they don't do anymore, military 22:51 service in exchange for dropping the felony for the rest 22:55 of your life. - and what year was that? 22:56 That was 1967. - so the military service was Vietnam? 23:00 And they sent me to Vietnam which now they taught me how 23:04 to kill a right way, if there's a right way and we know 23:08 there's not and that created more anger, 23:10 more frustration, and a hard heart. 23:13 You know what I think about that kind of thing and you 23:17 were at my house in first telling me this story, my heart 23:21 just broke for you because I picture this angry child now 23:25 in the service and being taught to kill. 23:27 Now drugs coming in and drinking coming in and all that 23:29 kind of thing being mixed in with that. 23:33 I felt at that point you must have been so lost in your 23:37 anger. - I was lost in my anger and the smallest little 23:41 thing would set me off. 23:43 I think I probably had the most article 15's of 23:46 anybody in my company. - what's an article 15? 23:48 It's a military discipline action where you forfeit your 23:53 pay, loss of rank and extra duty and pretty soon I think 23:57 when I was in a war situation making the five level of 24:02 rank that I had pay and overseas duty pay and combat duty 24:07 pay, I was only making $200 and something dollars, 24:10 $258 a month and so that lead into more drugs, dealing 24:14 and black-market situation. - to increase your income? 24:17 To increase my income so I could have more drugs and 24:19 more medication of covering up what you are actually doing 24:24 every day. - as you're telling me this story I was 24:28 paying attention to Celeste and your response to him. 24:32 And the response that I picked up on spiritually was see 24:37 how messed up he is Cheri? Do you know what I mean? 24:40 So I want you to tell a little bit because your 24:43 backgrounds are so different and I want you to tell 24:46 a little bit about your background and how you grew up 24:48 because it was different than his. 24:49 Yes I grew up in a Christian home, went to Christian 24:53 schools, was basically always a good girl and everything 24:57 had to look right, it was vitally important that the 25:01 presentation to the public, if you are having a problem 25:05 at home that was kept at home. 25:07 You never shared anything and everything always had to 25:09 look good to anybody else. 25:11 This sweet little girl ended up with him. 25:16 We are not going to get into all the years in between that 25:19 but I want to go there right now, just imagine out of 25:23 Vietnam in a few years have passed and you are still in 25:27 the middle of your anger and you meet this Adventist girl 25:30 and decide to get married. 25:33 Actually we met at a place I went to work for, I took a break 25:37 from the stucco trade and went to work for Loma Linda farms. 25:41 Celeste came to that area just for the summer with her 25:46 fiancé and she needed a job and we hired her at the fruit 25:50 stand to sell vegetables and produce and hay that we were 25:54 producing to pay taxes on the property. 25:57 One day I told her during lunch you would make somebody 26:00 a good wife someday. - never realizing it would be you. 26:04 Never realizing yes, then one day she kind of got things 26:07 going at the time clock, it was time to check out and it 26:10 was me and someone else there and she gave me a kiss. 26:12 That was like do you know what you are doing? 26:17 And so we broke the other guys heart eventually. 26:22 That was tough but that was love. 26:24 I had been in a situation where it was basically 26:28 infatuation and everybody in at school wanted this 26:31 particular girl and I ended up with her two kids later 26:34 and boom it was over five years before and this was kind 26:39 of a catalyst thing. - right and you were, and at that 26:42 point you had fallen in love and you hadn't seen any of 26:45 his anger at that point? - not that much, no. 26:50 So I want to hear what your take was on him. 26:55 Was he kind and sweet, because all we see is that when I 27:00 met him he wasn't angry at all, I didn't see any of that. 27:04 No, I wouldn't say that I was, I had always been fascinated 27:09 by somebody on the other side of the fence. 27:12 - he was the bad boy. - he was a bad boy and so I love 27:16 the bad boy and I do have to tell you that after we had 27:19 been together awhile and the first time he yelled at me, 27:23 it was incredible because my father had never raised his 27:27 voice at me in my entire life. 27:29 So it was like an experience I didn't even know what to do. 27:35 I mean it was totally unreal. 27:37 Okay so Ron did your anger, how did your anger look after you 27:43 guys started to get together in a relationship and all 27:47 that stuff? You are still having outbursts of anger? 27:50 I mean how did that look? 27:52 How did it look? - yeah! - probably not good. 27:58 That was a dumb question, it was I'm sorry. 28:00 I was still doing drugs and I was still not dealing with 28:04 some anger from the father issue and from Vietnam. 28:08 In fact I would do things like being in public and go right 28:12 up to an Oriental and had no bones about pulling a fork off 28:16 the table and slamming it, that was called an assault on 28:20 America and I knew that wasn't cool but I did know how to 28:23 deal with that type of hatred I had accumulated. 28:28 You know I want to make that clear because I think it is 28:31 incredible that you said the outbursts of anger's were so 28:34 out there, as far as even what anybody would think. 28:39 And you came from a home that everything had to look right. 28:42 Here is this guy doing things where you think that's not 28:45 right, you don't do that. 28:47 So I still looked good that was really important, because 28:51 I still looked good and he looked really bad. 28:53 It didn't matter what it was about, I mean one short 28:56 incident, I have a 57 Chevy pickup that I've restored. 29:00 It's a nice vehicle, a collectors item but I would slam 29:03 the windshield and break it, or bust the fender up if it 29:07 didn't run just right when I was tuning it up. 29:09 Then you have to go get another windshield and go get 29:13 another fender. - So far it has not come out on your wife 29:16 and employees and I remember you one time talking about 29:20 your employees and you ranted for a long time. 29:23 These are idiots, I'm like all of them so it came out 29:30 everywhere and one of the things I want to get to Celeste 29:36 is that I realize in the time you were at the house, 29:39 and as you were talking I realized how damaged you were 29:42 Ron, as far as your rage and how early it started. 29:45 How stuck you were in that but I also saw that wasn't in 29:49 your heart, which was really interesting to me that it was 29:53 not your heart and I felt that strong. 29:55 I all of a sudden realized Celeste, that you were so 29:59 codependent - and I was so angry at you. 30:03 Because this whole time I came to you, okay fix him. 30:07 And you were looking at him going I just feel so bad for 30:11 you, that must be terrible. 30:13 I'm going what! - and I turned around at one point to 30:16 Celeste and said, and the people watching I want you to 30:20 hear this, is Celeste I think because of your underlying 30:24 issues that you are at least 50% of the problem in this 30:27 relationship, maybe even 60%. 30:30 I thought she was going to cut my throat. 30:33 She was going to say you know what, are you crazy he is 30:38 so angry and I've tolerated so much for so many years, 30:43 what are you talking about? 30:45 Your reaction to that, explain a little bit about. 30:49 I was angry, I was furious - you are going to pack your 30:54 bags and leave my house. 30:55 Well I felt all my issues again which were rejection and 30:59 abandonment and all of that because here I came for help 31:02 and you are just rejecting me and abandoning me and 31:04 taking care of him, what's wrong? 31:08 I'm good, I'm a good girl, I did the right thing, I stayed. 31:12 Well not only I stayed but - I behaved, I tried to say 31:16 the right thing, do the right thing, look the right way 31:20 and all those things. 31:21 And you know what the reason I want to kind of get that 31:25 groundwork laid is that we spent some time together and 31:29 the only thing I can think of was you guys both want 31:32 really wanted to heal your relationship and that you 31:35 really needed to understand each other's issues, 31:38 where you came from. 31:39 Celeste I felt so sure if you can see any of this 31:44 underlying, I had to be perfect, be a good girl and take 31:48 care of everybody, and everybody has to behave, if 31:50 you can see some of that and surrender it to God 31:52 you could love Him in a way that would bring 31:55 life to the relationship. 31:57 So you guys leave to go take care of that and I would 32:01 like for you to tell your story, and both of you tell 32:05 your story about what God did from the time He stepped 32:10 in to restore your marriage. 32:12 Well the two tapes that you showed us there By Binding of 32:16 the Wounds Seminar interested us in going to see more to 32:21 get more help and get more tools. 32:24 So we went to Ron and Nancy Rockies seminar 32:27 - and before for people that don't know I showed them 32:30 some tapes about a marriage seminar. 32:31 The marriage seminar I showed them were some friends of mine 32:34 that are amazing, so they decided to actually go for a 32:38 week end - right? And I think it was the Sunday, 32:41 it's a two day thing when you first start it, if you go to 32:44 the Binding Wounds Seminar in person, it's a two day thing. 32:47 Sunday at noon we broke for lunch and I came out of there 32:51 and I had just explained loudly, these tennis shoes I am 32:55 wearing feel like air Jordan's times 10. I can do this. 32:59 I found this humongous weight just leave me and of course 33:04 that is just the beginning so now what do I do? 33:06 Let me interrupt because what is amazing to me about who 33:10 you chose to go see is that he had a tremendous rage 33:15 disorder, a tremendous rage disorder, this guy is a 33:19 marriage seminar is so enraged that he would take the 33:23 phone out of his house, put a pay phone in his house and 33:27 give his wife a quarter so she could make one call the 33:31 whole time he was at work. She had to walk a half a mile, 33:35 a quarter of a mile to get to a neighbor's house 33:37 and use the phone. 33:38 He would if dinner was ready at a certain time he would 33:41 throw fits and throw things, put holes in walls, scream, 33:44 yell, and leave and go to a restaurant if dinner 33:47 was five minutes late. 33:48 He said that he was on the way to the table but 33:51 not on the table he would be in enraged. So he really 33:54 knew what you were talking about what that kind of rage. 33:57 So God sent you into a place where you could 34:01 so relate to someone. 34:02 Well when we went back to that same seminar the second 34:05 time, there were many, many people in the audience and he 34:08 sees me sitting there with Celeste again and he says what 34:11 are you doing here? Is that you, Ron can I say something 34:14 about you in front of all these people? 34:16 I said sure I'd probably talked to them. 34:18 He said when you walked in here the first time he looked at 34:21 his wife and said look at this guy he just reeks with rage. 34:24 He won't last half an hour, he'll be out of here talking 34:27 trash all way up to the, he said look you are back again. 34:31 I now look at you and see radiance, your nickname was rage 34:35 and our talk that we go out and now do we call it 34:39 - from Rage to Radiance. And now we're good friends, 34:42 we've gone to Phoenix to visit and stay with them and 34:44 we love them to death. 34:47 Okay so God really brought you into a place where you 34:50 could see your issues, and we talked about change, 34:53 how God does that I don't even know. 34:56 He sets us exactly in the place we need to be with 34:59 exactly the people we need to be with and the Holy Spirit 35:02 starts moving in, you don't even see it, you just see a 35:05 change in the person's face, changing their anger and 35:10 the way they response to all those things. 35:11 And we're going to back to that. 35:12 What about your stuff Celeste that you have issues that 35:15 were different than Ron's, and when I said yours was 35:18 going to be harder or that yours was more of a problem 35:21 is because Ron's were so apparent. 35:23 If something has a broken arm is easy to see what to do 35:25 with that, if someone has rage and that kind of stuff, 35:29 but yours was all silent, it was all I am doing the right 35:32 thing. So what we're sure recovery like? 35:35 What did God do with yours? 35:36 It was really slow, first of all because it was like Ron 35:39 saw everything immediately because it was on the outside. 35:42 Mine was more like an onion peeling, just a little bit 35:45 at a time, a little bit at a time learning that. 35:47 I did hide everything, I did shut down, I was co-dependent 35:52 and all those things, but just very, very slowly because 35:57 I had been programmed for so long to not see any of that. 36:02 So when you talk about co-dependent 36:04 what do you mean by that? 36:05 It's because I'm thinking when I, a lot of people watching 36:10 are going to have codependency tendencies or 36:13 caretakers because they want things to look good and 36:15 those kind of things. 36:16 Yeah taking care of people, I always used to try take care 36:19 of Ron, if something was wrong in the business I would try 36:22 to fix it, I always made sure that we looked good even 36:26 though he was being a complete problem. 36:28 What ever, and it is all of those things and once I stepped 36:32 back from that and didn't own that it was my 36:35 responsibility to fix everything, he was perfectly 36:37 capable of doing it and did a much better job, but it's 36:40 just that we think we have take care of everything. 36:43 There will there were times when Celeste would call and 36:46 I would love these calls because she would call and just 36:49 the healing that was happening and the love that was coming 36:52 I back into the relationship between the two of them 36:55 as she realized, as you realized that I can't make him 36:59 better and I need to just relax about that and give that 37:03 responsibility to him. 37:04 As God was empowering you to actually change it was 37:07 amazing to me to watch you guys grow. 37:11 It was hard when you realized there was a lot of issues. 37:15 That I really did have a lot of issues. - yeah, yeah! 37:18 Yeah because I have been taught my whole life not to 37:22 look at those things not to see those. 37:23 A really good example is we were going to church one day, 37:27 and I was driving and he was over there talking to me. 37:31 This kind of Na-na-na-na kind of in a rage but he just 37:35 looked over and I thought I am so sick and tired of you 37:39 flapping your jaw and I slapped him. 37:41 I have never slapped a guy in my whole life and he just 37:45 turned around and ducked me. 37:47 And he has never raised a hand to me either and so I 37:50 pulled the car over, he took the keys and got out and 37:52 started walking down the road and someone picked him up. 37:55 I'm like whatever, somebody will be by that's going to 37:58 church and I'll get a ride with them, which I did. I went all 38:01 the way through Sabbath school, all the way through church, 38:03 Pot luck, singing band and never shed a tear. 38:06 Someone said while hi how are you and I am like fine. 38:09 Where's Ron? I'm not sure. I mean I wouldn't even 38:12 address what had happened that I had never even been hit 38:15 my life and now someone had hit me and I refuse to even 38:19 acknowledge that that had happened. 38:21 And what I think is amazing about a lot of folks in those 38:25 codependent relationships, somebody is an obvious problem. 38:29 Like I learned that somebody with an eating disorder could 38:33 have 35 codependent people working around them that 38:36 are running and trying to make them better. 38:38 It's like you have somebody that is actively acting out 38:41 and you have somebody quietly trying to fix it, but with 38:45 desperation and anxiety, with everything that comes with 38:49 it, and they are saying is they are at a point complete 38:53 denial saying what it is not supposed to be and physical 38:57 violence was no exception to that. 39:00 I think it is important to note here that the comment 39:04 that sparked me in the wrong direction and I accept full 39:08 responsibility for going that wrong direction was when she 39:12 said to me I don't have a problem, you do. 39:15 I could see that it was a 2 Way Street here and that was 39:19 more than I can handle and that doesn't make an excuse. 39:23 But what's amazing to me, what is interesting is when God 39:28 brings in change, is that everyone at the table, everyone 39:33 in the relationship God wants to heal and work with. 39:36 All of us and if we could get that, if we could get that 39:40 God has an opportunity to say do not trust yourself. 39:44 There is a place in the Bible where it says lean not to 39:48 your own understanding because you do not get the full 39:51 picture, you have to trust Me and every single thing. 39:53 You have to bring every single thing to Me in prayer. 39:56 And for people in recovery, any of us in recovery. 39:59 I'm speaking to any addict watching right now too, don't 40:03 trust yourself because you have years and years 40:07 dysfunctional relationships and your family dynamics, 40:12 I heard a saying one time as if a number of children or a family 40:17 was living by a polluted factory that polluted the air. 40:22 It actually brought in cancer or carcinogens or whatever 40:26 and the kids ended up being sick it would be real clear 40:30 that the factory was causing that. 40:33 But in some homes the pollution is language, verbal or 40:37 emotional pollution and the kids from early on learn a 40:41 language, and the language is so well learned. 40:44 You have learned a language as you were growing up that 40:48 caused you to want to fix everything, to look good all the 40:51 time, and be right and want him to be right. 40:53 Not so much for his own sake, but because this is what 40:57 couples should look like. 40:58 And this is how you are supposed to behave. 41:00 So now I think we have a real good picture that we are a mess 41:05 aye, we have a picture, and I watched God bring the Holy 41:11 Spirit into your relationship and do some changes. 41:14 So Ron first of all I want to ask you, one time we were 41:19 sitting together and I saw that you were still struggling. 41:23 Ron are you leaning on, can I teach you a little bit about 41:26 what I found out about the Holy Spirit that God says I 41:30 really want to give you a baptism of the Holy Spirit so 41:34 that you could not have to fight so much this struggle. 41:37 And you prayed for that God would bring the Holy Spirit 41:40 into your life, did that make you change for you? 41:45 It made a tremendous change. At first I was wondering 41:50 what, for what? But when you baptized us with the Holy 41:54 Spirit, ever since that time the desire has changed. 41:59 The constant awareness that Jesus loves me and wants me to 42:03 share that with others, and wants me to react properly to 42:08 no matter what the situation that comes up. 42:10 No matter what. I've seen some people now that have come 42:14 back to me later that witnessed situations that said in your 42:18 old self you would have climbed over the counter to that. 42:22 - and grabbed him by the throat. - just when I had been 42:25 3 and 1/2 hours away called and said to you that material 42:28 there, they said yes I'm sitting here looking at it and 42:34 drive there and it is not there and I went oh, okay. 42:40 So when will it be in? And one of my brother in laws was 42:44 sitting there watching that happen and he was blown away. 42:48 Later on he told me about it said I expected the cops 42:51 to be there in a couple minutes, and I said well was 42:55 it really worth it? 42:56 You go through these feelings and you cannot cry over 42:59 spilled milk, you got to go for it today, and if you make 43:02 a mistake you brush yourself off and keep going and say 43:05 Jesus just help me the next time to do it the right way. 43:08 The new highs, as ex-druggies of these we know that word, 43:11 the new high is doing it right. 43:13 - having God give you the ability to do it right 43:17 yeah it's not me, it's not me, I said that this morning 43:20 at the end of that show I give all the credit Jesus Christ 43:24 because I have a thing on my dresser that used to be on 43:28 our desk and it says I can do all things, but it doesn't 43:32 stop there. Through Him who strengthens me. 43:36 Now I have many incidents where that moment of impact or 43:41 the temptation is there again, whatever that is someone 43:45 has shared with me thank Him for the victory before 43:48 you even get it, when you do that it sends your mind to 43:52 Jesus to have victory and then that problem seems to just 43:55 vanish, not every time but it's a daily. 44:00 You don't do right every time but what is really nice 44:03 about as God moves us into a place where I can start turning 44:06 it over to Him and this is that I do it right more 44:08 than I used to. - right she called me one time when I 44:11 was on the way to work. 44:12 Three employees were not going to show and I needed them 44:15 there, her and I were struggling with an issue and I had 44:18 a lady in court for a year and a half that wouldn't pay 44:21 and eventually had to, so things were falling down again. 44:24 She calls and says what are you doing and I said singing. 44:27 She said what are you singing, I said I'm singing Just 44:30 When I Need Him Most, to choose to do things like that 44:33 sends your mine into a direction that is more 44:37 healing, more positive. 44:40 I was very much a negative person, and I had watched what 44:43 I done to my wife and it hurt. 44:46 But God is good and He rebuilds. 44:49 - He's reconciling both you to Him and each other. 44:52 Which is amazing 44:54 - and I would tell the world that I love this lady. 44:56 - that's incredible so I'm going to find out if there is 45:00 anybody that has any questions, I knew Christy you wanted 45:04 to ask Ron or Celeste a question, go ahead. 45:08 This is for Celeste, when Cheri had told you that you 45:15 were co-dependent and God really showing you in revealing 45:23 that to you, how exactly did you take that? 45:26 How exactly did you? 45:27 Do you know even though it is hard for you to finish this 45:33 the first time I met Christy I would have to say we were 45:37 doing an intervention with your husband who was a meth 45:41 addict, and talking with him and realizing that you were 45:46 not an addict and you have not acted out. 45:49 She was a nice girl, do you know what I mean? 45:52 Married to this guy that was out of control, and you are 45:54 pregnant or just had a child? 45:56 - yes I had just had my son and 45:59 he was like two weeks old when I found out my husband 46:01 was doing meth, so that was quite a shock. 46:04 So what was interesting to me was that even as we were 46:07 dealing with this one to one with her husband, I realize 46:11 that Christy you were enabling a lot of his behavior and 46:15 had to get some strength under you so that your family 46:19 wasn't destroyed, so how did you respond? 46:22 Well at first like Celeste, I don't think I told to but I 46:29 was mad, this guy he is a messed up one and I am a new 46:35 mom, a new bride and you go through a lot of emotions and 46:41 so that was new and then you find out your husband is 46:47 doing meth, I mean that is a shock. 46:49 You're like wait a minute, we came here to fix him and 46:54 now we are talking about me. It was like I don't get this. 47:00 But she was right, when I went home we didn't talk and I just 47:06 thought Cheri is right, I was so used to helping Terri 47:14 and being that crutch. 47:17 I would beg you please Terri get help because otherwise 47:23 you are going to destroy yourself, you're going to 47:26 destroy this family, you're going to lose your job, 47:28 we are going to be broke. 47:30 And at that time I quit my job. 47:33 - and this is unsafe for my children. 47:38 - so I begged and pleaded and please get help. 47:43 Because I have no background in drugs, I don't know how 47:51 this game works, so once he told me Chris you are very 47:58 much codependent - and so let me ask Celeste when 48:02 she is talking about her reaction to being codependent 48:07 and some of those things. 48:08 How did that strengthen you? How did that strengthen 48:11 your relationship with God? To understand that maybe 48:14 I have some issues that I could look at, maybe it is 48:18 not so out of control. 48:19 First of all I have to say it, it took a really long time. 48:22 Like a year and a half or something. It did take a long 48:26 time before I could see those things clearly because I had 48:30 lived in denial and my family dynamics had been everything 48:34 was okay for so long that I couldn't even see or 48:37 understand what that was. 48:39 As far as me relating it to God, I think I don't have to 48:45 fix everything now, like you say God is my Father, 48:48 He takes care of things and of one of the things that I have 48:53 learned to really live by is the only person 48:55 I can change is myself. 48:57 In the last couple months there has been a time or two 49:01 when Ron and I had a, I will just say issue, it wasn't 49:04 a fight, it wasn't anything like that 49:06 and I was really frustrated. 49:08 I came back to, I can only change myself and so I went 49:13 to my knees and say God what do you want me 49:16 to do different here. - Amen 49:19 What do you want me to change - 49:20 that is the most incredible thing is that 49:22 instead of saying I need to You change him, I need You to 49:26 fix him or what ever is to be able to come back and say 49:28 what is it that I'm doing and what can I look like at? 49:31 To me when you first said that to me on the phone I wanted to 49:34 reach over and kiss you on the face. 49:36 What an incredible step in growth. 49:38 And you know what, before I had finished praying he was 49:41 calling me back apologizing for what he just didn't 49:45 understand at all and I was like oh this is cool. 49:48 But it is really hard to let go, when you have your whole 49:53 life taken care of making the problem right and you don't 49:57 think of yourself as controlling you are only trying to help. 50:00 Controlling is someone who just, but you are only trying 50:05 to help. - right. So to let go of that is hard. 50:10 - it's absolutely hard. And I have to say for as 50:14 we look at how God changes us in a relationship where 50:18 you are committed to Christ or healing or change or 50:23 recovery is to really say God what is it about me that 50:27 needs to be different? What is it about me that is adding 50:31 to this? I have to even say as I watched you guys go 50:35 through this process, and it did take you longer because 50:38 yours wasn't as an evident and it wasn't as obvious. 50:41 But when I started getting this with my own relationship 50:45 with Brad, I'm married to a non-Christian and he hadn't been 50:48 a Christian for years and I am doing evangelism and he's 50:51 not even a Christian and I used to pray all the time God 50:55 fix him, fix him it's time and finally God said, take a 50:59 breath, fix your self and I've realized that in my saying 51:04 fix him I was not showing not being able to love or respect 51:09 him in a way that would allow the Holy Spirit 51:10 to stand him up. 51:12 So I started looking at myself and he was fixed within 51:15 like six months and not fixed where he doesn't have issues, 51:19 fixed where he is moving close to God and seeing that and is 51:23 responding to the Holy Spirit and so to be I think on this 51:27 show on change and recovery is to be able to look at not 51:31 only Ron the person with the obvious issues that is 51:34 exploding all over the place, but those around us that are 51:39 maybe quietly enabling and still feeling as lost. 51:44 But just quieter and God says if you give Me the 51:48 opportunity I will come in and bring peace. 51:52 There was another question out here, was that Pam were you 51:57 going to ask a question? 51:58 Yes I wanted to ask Ron is your anger completely gone, 52:02 or is it something you've learned to manage? 52:05 I think it would be more like something God has helped me 52:09 to learn to manage. 52:11 I had a little incident where one day it felt so different 52:15 not to explode, but that was my type of current drug so to 52:18 speak, so I had to explode I thought so I went up to the 52:22 closet and closed the door and let it rip. 52:25 I came outside and said now, the Holy Spirit has really 52:30 put on my heart the true meaning of love and there's two 52:35 feelings there, love and hate. 52:37 Love is so much stronger and I am making choices to do 52:41 different things like when I was furious one day at the 52:44 job I went over to the sand pile and I wanted to take 52:48 the shovel, that was my humanity. 52:50 Jesus said to me Ron, He talked with His voice and said 52:53 what does it really matter here that I make the dollar 52:55 that I showed and you should help me do that or that I 52:58 show you some different? 52:59 So I want to show you some different, and I start to tell 53:02 them how much I cared about what they did was good. 53:05 You know I like what you say Ron is set to actually hear 53:09 the Holy Spirit saying to you no Ron stop, take a breath 53:12 and this is what I want you to say. 53:14 What is really amazing to me is when you say that you feel 53:18 great. - being in tune with what that emotion has done 53:22 and saying I do not want to do that to my wife or other 53:26 people around me anymore. 53:28 I choose, and sometimes that is biting down and choosing 53:33 to not be negative and to put that energy into something 53:38 positive, for instance okay I'll go ahead and buckle down 53:42 a little harder on this project here because even though 53:47 these humans are not producing we need to get to a 53:50 certain point here and so I will show them an example 53:54 and let it be a positive example. 53:56 No it's not totally gone, there are still times there and 53:59 I'm still seeing some of it. 54:00 I will take a deep breath and come back in the house and 54:03 say we have to work this out babe right now. 54:06 We have to get this fixed. - I want to say I love you guys. 54:10 Thank you so much for joining us and we have to go now. 54:14 This has been amazing and I love to watch the changes 54:17 that God has made in your life. Absolutely amazing. 54:26 Amazing stories of real people in real situations discussing 54:30 issues that really matter. 54:32 A complete first season of Celebrating Life In Recover is 54:35 now available on DVD and can be ordered by calling 3ABN 54:38 or online at 3ABN.org hosted by Cheri Peters. 54:42 This season follows principles of the book 54:45 'Steps to Christ'. 54:46 See for yourself how God changed the lives of the 54:48 convicted and the accused and victims of terrible crimes. 54:51 You won't want to miss a moment 54:53 of these powerful interviews. 54:58 I've heard a lot of people say in their recovery, I know that 55:01 God loves me, I know that I'm forgiven but I also know 55:04 that I am a mess and I know that I stand up and fall down 55:08 and do the very things I don't want to do. 55:10 Paul says in the Bible I don't want to do this than I do 55:13 it, the things I want to do I don't do and he just breaks 55:17 down and cries oh wretched man that I am who's going to 55:21 save me from this body of death. 55:23 I want to say to anybody with those feelings is Jesus will. 55:26 He so knows us, I don't care if you stand up and fall a 55:30 hundred times, if you have to come weeping at His feet 55:34 just saying I'm asking you again to please change me. 55:37 Please forgive me, please teach me what it feels like to 55:41 respond to the situation in a calm way and not in anger. 55:45 Or like Celeste was talking about the issues of wanting 55:49 to be perfect and control the situation and 55:52 take care for everybody. 55:54 Teach me to allow You to take care of me and I think that 55:57 God says that it's going to take awhile because you are 56:00 so in a habit of doing something in anger. 56:03 You are so much in a habit of responding in a certain 56:06 way that I'm going to have to allow you to feel what it 56:10 feels like for the Holy Spirit to almost respond for you. 56:13 As I asked for the Holy Spirit in the situation where 56:17 He pours into me His Holy Spirit, I can feel that peace 56:21 and respond to that situation and everything in me says you 56:26 know, I like that, I like how that feels, I like how the 56:31 response is that people are actually getting healed 56:34 rather than running from Me in anger. 56:36 God says I will teach you, the very desires you have right 56:41 now will change those. 56:42 You will fall in love with things you don't like right now 56:45 and you will hate the things that you like. 56:47 As God changes you, no one will see the change start but 56:51 they see it in your reactions and they see it in your 56:55 face and they see it in your family and they see it around 56:57 the dinner table and they see it at church. 56:59 You have so much to give and the Holy Spirit is so ready to 57:05 bring in those changes that you will be surprised at 57:09 yourself, I don't care if you have been strung out your 57:13 whole life, I don't care if you've been depressed your 57:16 whole life give the Holy Spirit a chance and the Holy 57:19 Spirit will come into the situation and teach you what it 57:23 feels like to stand holy in the presence of a holy God. 57:26 Full of joy, full of hope and with my background, 57:30 I'm telling you, I absolutely love life. 57:33 I absolutely love the fact that I can step into a situation 57:39 and respond appropriately, most the time. 57:43 I trust God with that and the things I struggle with 57:47 I know that it is just a matter of time before He unfolds 57:51 that in front of me and allows me in a social situation 57:55 or any kind of situation to know exactly what is good 57:59 and what is not. 58:01 See you next time in Celebrating Life In Recovery |
Revised 2014-12-17