Participants: Cheri Peters (Host), Keeslers
Series Code: CLR
Program Code: CLR000017
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00:10 Welcome to Celebrating Life In Recover.
00:11 I'm Cheri your host and today we are going to learn how 00:14 to live a life of recovery every day. 00:16 With meaning and joy and interest, so come and join us. 00:48 I love life, but for years I spent trying to figure out 00:53 recovery, I went to counseling, I went to groups, 00:56 I went to pastors and I got self-help books. 00:59 I wanted to be normal so bad that I got every book on the 01:03 shelf, I will go to the self-help section. 01:06 You know that section is growing every year. 01:09 I went there and found books on how to socialize, 01:12 books on how to speak to people, I have books on 01:15 Depression and how to deal with molestation issues. 01:18 How to get over memory stuff, how to deal with anger. 01:20 I didn't even know I was angry at first, somebody said 01:24 Cheri, I was born to drug addict parents, I was homeless 01:28 for 10 years, I was a strung out on heroin and when I 01:31 got into recovery the consular said were you ever angry? 01:33 I said no, he was like oh my goodness. 01:36 He thought I was in such denial, then he taught me that 01:41 I was angry and I was angry for year. 01:43 I thought I have a right to be angry now. 01:45 He said to start writing angry notes to folks, if they did 01:49 something to me write it down. 01:50 I would start not thinking I was that angry and I would 01:54 start writing and by the end of the letter my blood 01:57 pressure is up in my face is red and I had the veins 02:00 sticking out of my head. 02:01 I did all that kind of stuff, I took antidepressants, 02:06 I took herbs, I took vitamins, I changed my eating 02:10 habits and I learn to exercise. 02:12 I thought about learning to exercise. 02:15 I did every single thing and I found out after years 02:21 and years of just searching for how to do it myself and 02:27 that God has a plan. 02:30 This section of the show we are going to talk about the 02:34 Holy Spirit in recovery and a scripture for this series 02:38 is Psalms 51 and I'm going to read verse 10 today. 02:41 Verse 10 says "create in me a clean heart oh God and renew 02:45 "a right spirit within me, a steadfast spirit within me. " 02:49 I'm thinking creating me a clean heart. 02:52 I had never had that, I was molested all my life. 02:55 I was trashed all my life. I had issues all my life. 02:58 When somebody said act normal or think right, 03:03 what does that mean? I don't know how to do that. 03:06 I do not know what that means and so we are going to 03:09 talk today about the Holy Spirit and what He offers us. 03:12 I'm going to introduce you to the guests that are here, 03:15 to people that we are going to interview. 03:17 Jim and Lori if we are going to interview you today and 03:19 hear all about your stories, Jim I love you and I am so 03:22 glad that you are here. 03:24 Sam, thank you for coming. Heather, Curly - hi there. 03:27 - how are you doing? - I'm doing good, doing good. 03:30 You know you have been on other shows and when you're 03:33 on other shows all the tattoos that you had on your 03:36 face and neck and hands were much darker, but we are 03:38 working on getting those removed with 03:40 Dr. Steven Popkow in California. 03:44 So I wanted people to see. I'm getting lighter every day 03:48 and end the only fellow that can disappear and reappear 03:52 at the same time. So I have had four treatments on all 03:55 the tattoos that have been removed, neck and face. 03:58 We just started the eyelids, hands are going to come off, 04:02 the tattoos not the hands. 04:03 And I need those thumbs so it's come a long good. 04:09 I mean I haven't looked from when I started to now 04:14 because I want until the end, but from other people what 04:17 they are telling me it is a drastic change and 04:19 I'm getting lighter every day. 04:20 I went with you the first treatment and saw you when they 04:24 first did the laser that looks so incredibly painful. 04:28 Horrible, horrible I mean the pain. 04:30 The first treatment is the worst one, they still hurt 04:33 tremendously. - they actually take lasers? 04:36 It is the green laser and for the first three treatments 04:39 it is set four millimeter which is a big hit with the 04:43 laser and I have now switched it to 2 mm hits which is 04:45 more intense think it's in there to get the darker lines 04:50 out. It's bloody situation, at first it was more like a 04:54 burn, but now there is more blood involved. 04:57 The pain I have learned to tolerate it but it still hurts. 04:59 I don't scream as much as I did in the first session 05:03 when you were there. 05:04 I was there on the first section I and I have to tell you is 05:07 that when he hit especially your lips and a part of your 05:10 face, that the pain was so intense that I felt like it 05:13 physically hit me from across the room. 05:15 You had to scream on that one. Oh yeah it was just 05:19 painful and since this has been on 3ABN a lot of people 05:23 come up to me and tell me like hey, there is some other 05:27 products out there that you don't have to use a laser. 05:29 There is some cream you can put on your arm that is 05:32 supposed to make the tattoo go away. 05:34 I asked the doctor and he said don't use it has some 05:39 acid in their and it will burn your skin and leave a scar. 05:42 I even had this one fellow come up to me and told me if 05:46 you inject goats milk, if you inject goats milk into your 05:50 tattoo it will make your tattoo disappear. 05:52 I tried it. Did it work? No, it didn't do anything. 05:58 But I got rid of my lawnmower and I am eating a lot more 06:01 grass and I don't have the mow the yard as often. 06:03 I'm serious that's true story, the guy told me to inject 06:06 goats milk but you have to be careful here. 06:10 You do want to go to a doctor because there are other 06:12 people that are buying these machines that are not 06:14 doctors, and a tattoo shop around here a guy has a laser 06:18 machine and is a Piercist doing these tattoos using 06:23 a laser on these people. 06:24 I have talked to people and it is not working. 06:26 The doctor said you have to go through a doctor, so 06:28 anybody watching go to a doctor that is licensed to do this. 06:31 You can get scarred up or hurt, and infection, 06:34 you need to go to a professional. 06:36 Let me just ask you, why remove your tattoos? 06:40 What does that mean to you? 06:41 A chance to start over, once these tattoos are gone 06:45 I have to deal with everything that has been hidden 06:50 underneath them and it is a big old mess 06:52 let me tell you what. 06:54 - but God can do that as well as remove the tattoos. 06:58 - I know He can, God has taken this every step of the way. 07:01 - even with your plane flights, 07:03 getting you to California. 07:05 - yes two days ago I got a treatment and I didn't know 07:08 if I was going to go or not because I didn't have any 07:11 plane tickets, people have been helping me out, you have 07:13 been helping me out to get my plane tickets. 07:15 Other people have been coming up and helping me out. 07:17 I didn't know if I was going to go, I got up in the 07:19 morning and after having a pity party the night before 07:21 thinking here we go, I'm half way through this thing 07:23 and now it's not going to work. 07:25 I got up and got my Bible out, read the Bible and 07:28 prayed about it and within two hours I had my plane 07:32 tickets for the next one plus two more plane tickets 07:36 so I'm good to go. 07:37 Where I love God Curly, on another show I'm going to 07:41 just talked to you, because I think you are amazing 07:45 and what God is doing in your life is amazing. 07:47 And Jonathan we are going to talk about your testimony 07:50 today and your choices to come to God. 07:52 One of the things I would really like to hear is that 07:55 every single one of us has a journey. 07:58 And some it is very physical, you can look at Curly and 08:02 have to say, oh man, but all of us have stuff that God 08:06 works on, and the stuff is bigger than we are capable 08:10 of healing, it's bigger than I can understand. 08:13 Bible says lean not unto your own understanding because 08:16 you can't understand that but I will give you the Holy 08:19 Spirit and I am so glad that God sends the Holy Spirit to 08:23 direct us in our recovery. 08:24 And going back to the first part of my recovery, 08:27 I remember just feeling like I was working too hard. 08:31 I was reading all these books and doing all this stuff 08:35 and I finally said God, this should not be so hard. 08:39 He said it isn't. 08:41 I'm thinking, really because it feels hard to me. 08:45 The Bible says, this is the amplified in Matthew. 09:02 I was not feeling refreshed, I was not feeling rested. 09:07 I was not feeling that that was true and I remember 09:11 thinking, God you have to help me here. 09:15 We're going to listen as they go through the show and see how 09:21 God does that, there is a surrender to Him that I had to 09:24 do, I had to come to a place and say you know what God? 09:27 I'm going to give it up. I'm going to give it to You. 09:30 Curly do you remember when you said the 09:32 plane tickets were not there? 09:33 You wanted to pick up the phone and call everybody. 09:36 I want to figure it out, I want to go to another group, 09:39 get another book and God says that takes time away from 09:43 Me being able to pour into you. 09:44 If you come to Me first, I promise you I will lead you 09:49 into a direction where you will find strength. 09:52 I'm thinking come to You first, I want to do something 09:55 I want to figure this out and God finally lets me do it 09:58 and 10 years later and guess what I'm saying? 10:00 This shouldn't be so hard, but God says come to Me first. 10:06 I just want to say if you are dealing with anything, 10:09 go to God first, ask Him for the Holy Spirit. 10:13 Ask Him to baptize you in the Holy Spirit and we have 10:16 talked about that throughout this show. 10:20 God every day fill me up, every day. 10:24 I need guidance from You every single day before my feet 10:27 hit the ground, before I come up with a thought in 10:30 my head or a direction to go, fill me up. 10:33 Tell me, the Bible says I will tell you whether to go 10:36 right or left, and I am thinking I know whether to go 10:40 right or left, and He is like yeah, 10:42 look back at your life. 10:43 Which direction right or left? 10:46 Don't trust yourself at all, especially in the first 10:48 part of recovery, especially in the first part of 10:51 life changes, ask Him. 10:52 You know I don't even know how to think, God how do 10:54 I think, how do I do this? 10:57 When God finally says this is how you do it, this is how 11:00 you think how I found out that after I turned it over to 11:03 God, I thought I was going to grieve at some of the 11:06 things that were leaving my life, but He poured so much 11:09 into me that I started to like being in my own skin. 11:13 I started to like who I was, I started to laugh and it 11:16 wasn't put on, I could laugh out loud and it was good. 11:20 When God says I want to give you life, and life 11:23 abundantly, I want you to enjoy waking up in the morning. 11:27 I want you to enjoy hanging out with folks and we can't 11:31 do that with all our garbage. 11:33 I don't even know what my garbage looks like. 11:34 God says if you turn it over to Me, I will gently show 11:37 you what your garbage looks like and I will pour into 11:40 you My Holy Spirit and show you what health looks like. 11:43 What love looks like, what life looks like, and what 11:46 laughter and joy feels like. 11:48 I'm thinking man, I love that. 11:49 We are going to be right back and I'm going to introduce you 11:52 to Lori and Jim and Jonathan and we are going to find 11:54 out how God has worked in their life because every one of 11:59 us has a story and every one of us has something to show 12:03 about how God has worked in their life and who 12:06 God is in their life. 12:07 Stay with us it is amazing, absolutely amazing. 12:10 We'll be right back. 12:17 Think you've seen it all? Think again. 12:20 Cheri Peters is back for a second season of 12:24 Celebrating Life In Recovery with more lives 12:27 more stories and more miracles. 12:30 Watch the shocking, inspiring, and the incredible. 12:34 Check your local listings to find out when 12:36 Celebrating Life In Recovery comes to you and get 12:40 ready for another dose of reality, Cheri style. 12:58 This is my favorite part of the show when we get to 13:00 interview the guest, but before we go there I want to 13:02 finish off with what Matthew said. 13:04 He goes on to say in Matthew 11:28. 13:08 Not to learn about your molest or your dysfunction 13:11 or your fears or even how to be normal, He says learn 13:15 of Me for I am gentle and meek. 13:38 I thought how incredible that is. 13:40 God says that even with all of our stuff, with all our 13:45 junk, He says yoke up with Me and it will be easy. 13:49 We are going to talk with Jim and Lori now and I want to 13:53 say thank you so much for being here on the show with us. 13:56 Thank you for having us. 13:58 I've known you for a couple of years now and been blessed 14:01 by your testimony and I have loved hanging out with you. 14:05 Lori I have to say that we met at Black Hills 14:08 - health and education Center - yes and I went there 14:11 to get healthy, who would have thought it? 14:16 I went there and you were working on staff doing what? 14:19 I was in the kitchen, assistant cook. 14:22 And you are teaching us how to cook. - yes. 14:25 Because I had no idea how to cook healthy, so teaching 14:28 us how to cook healthy and how to prepare stuff. 14:31 Every night I would get ready to go to sleep and hear 14:35 this knock on the door and it was 14:39 Lori, she would come in and tell me the most incredible 14:43 stories and then tuck me in and say prayer and leave. 14:46 I thought how fun is this. 14:48 So I want for people to get an idea what that was. 14:51 I want you to tell one of your stories, but I want you 14:54 to tell it like you told me because you are a good 14:57 storyteller. - okay. 15:00 You want me to tell the tree story first? Sangooma- yes. 15:03 This is actually Bill's Liversige story. 15:07 I love this story because this to me shows that God 15:12 people think that witnessing is this boring door to 15:17 door, meeting strangers and really scary. 15:21 But God has creative ways to get His message 15:24 across to other people. 15:26 Bill was a pastor, he was a missionary in Papua New Guinea 15:32 for 10 years and he said this is the funniest thing 15:35 that happened to him and was the most awesome, 15:37 one of the most awesome. 15:39 He was in what he calls a walk- about, he's from Australia and 15:43 with him was a man learning the ropes of being a missionary in 15:48 Papua New Guinea, the cultural does and don'ts. 15:52 Things they can offend and things they can get away with. 15:55 So here he is in Papua New Guinea and he said one thing 15:59 you noticed about the people of Papua New Guinea is that 16:02 they had their hair cut and their fingernails cut but you 16:05 never saw them doing it. 16:07 He said he was on this walkabout and the women, 16:13 by the way, had their head shaved bald. 16:18 The men in heathen New Guinea the bigger their wig, 16:22 the more wives they had, the bigger their wig the more 16:26 prestige that they had in the village. 16:28 So here he is walking with this man and here's a word he 16:33 never heard before, sangooma and he said it was said with 16:37 fear, he was wondering what was up with that. 16:40 He had never heard that word before. 16:42 So he is walking in the village and they came to this 16:45 clearing where there is a hundred men naked and covered 16:48 in pigs grease and they are dancing wildly. 16:53 Over in the corner is the little man who had the eyes of a 16:57 sorcerer and in front of him was what I call a primitive 17:02 rotisserie and you see the chickens in the grocery store 17:06 going round and round. 17:07 Well this was a sweet potato and on the rotisserie was 17:11 a sweet potato which is called a cow-cow. 17:13 When you cook it is called a mow-mow so when you are 17:15 hungry you mow-mow your cow-how cow. 17:17 In the sweet potato are fingernail and hair and a vine 17:23 tied around the middle. 17:26 As a sweet potato cooked, well Bill is a very bold, 17:30 well the Bible says God will give us boldness to go out. 17:35 He said what is happening here anyway? 17:37 And as this little man waddles over and he said in the next 17:42 village is a man who is very sick. 17:45 He is so sick, and his wife leans over and says what is 17:50 wrong? He says one word, sangooma. 17:53 She nearly starts crying because in heathen New Guinea 17:58 if you have something against someone you follow them 18:02 to the secret place in the jungle where they bury their 18:05 fingernails and hair and you dig it up and take it to 18:09 the sangooma man, he worked sangooma and they die. 18:12 Bill said as the sweet potato cooked the vine got closer 18:17 and closer and the sweet potato fell into the fire and 18:22 the little man waddles over and says the man is dead. 18:27 Bill said no way, you can't kill a man that way. 18:31 You do go to the next village and see. 18:33 So he does and sure enough he hears the wailing. 18:39 In heathen New Guinea they wail, it's an exaggerated 18:44 crying so he goes to the chief and says what's happening 18:48 here? He said a man is dead. 18:51 What time did he die? Same time. What did he die of? 18:55 What was the man's name? Same name. 18:57 What did he die of? Sangooma. 19:00 Bill said you could have knocked him over with a feather. 19:03 He is walking through the village after talking with the 19:07 chief, he loves gardening and they have 400 varieties of 19:11 orchids in New Guinea that are nowhere else in the world. 19:15 I bet that's beautiful. - they are beautiful. 19:18 He comes to this tree and the fruit of the tree 19:21 would take two men facing each other to go around 19:24 one piece of fruit. 19:25 Bill goes wow, I've never seen fruit like that before. 19:29 He goes to touch the tree and this little guy comes out 19:33 and says, don't put your hand on this tree. 19:36 He says why, it's just a tree? 19:38 He said oh no, this is the sangooma tree. 19:41 No one has ever lived who has touched the sangooma tree. 19:47 What he thought was fruit were smoked bodies and that is 19:52 how the sangooma man worked power over the people. 19:56 So Bill said it that is when he got first of two 20:00 very creative ideas, 20:03 and the man was with him was very cautious. 20:05 So much so that Bill couldn't believe he was going to be 20:08 a missionary in Papua New Guinea. 20:10 At this time they still had the pygmies, the cannibals 20:13 that would kill people and everything. 20:16 He said, let's put our sleeping bags under the tree 20:21 touch the tree and see what happens. 20:24 - could you believe everybody in the village was like! 20:27 No, nobody's ever done that. 20:29 No, he was just telling this guy. 20:31 The guy said you go right ahead but I'm not touching that 20:35 tree, and Bill said I'm kind of persuasive so as we put 20:38 our sleeping bags under the tree the kudu drums began to beat, 20:43 they didn't have telephones in the little village. 20:46 Um dee bum, bum, bum dee bum, bum. 20:50 And they would beat all night long. 20:51 Bill said one of the disappoint- ments was he never learned 20:54 the language of drums, they probably wouldn't have slept 20:56 so well if I had learned it. 20:58 He said I'm a night owl and I function very well at night. 21:01 The next morning very early he hears voices, hundreds 21:07 maybe a thousand voices all around. 21:09 He said what is up with this? 21:11 It occurred to him that they were here for the ceremony 21:14 and that is when he got his second very creative idea. 21:18 He said I got another idea saying to the guy with him. 21:22 Like I said shut up because he heard the voices too. 21:25 He said no this is very good let's pretend we're dead. 21:31 So here they are, the chief sends this man over to see if 21:36 they are dead and Bill said the sleeping bag was pulled 21:41 over their heads, so the little guy puts his hand where 21:45 their heads would be, they're both dead. 21:48 Bill said how he knew I'll never know. 21:51 Anyway, the chief said no remove the calico because he 21:56 didn't know what a sleeping bag was. 21:57 So the man slowly puts his pig greased hand sliding it 22:01 over Bill's face and Bill said I did the first thing 22:05 I can think of, I sat up very quickly and went boo. 22:09 He said before you could snap fingers all those hundreds 22:14 of people were in the jungle and behind every Sago Palm 22:19 and every bush looking at the little guy. 22:22 No one had ever lived who had touched this tree. 22:25 Bill said we laughed and laughed and laughed for about 10 22:29 minutes, because the little guy that touched him jumped 22:32 about 6 foot in the air before he went into the jungle. 22:35 So now the chief comes out and he said the New Guinea 22:39 people have a wonderful sense of humor. 22:41 He came out and he goes, talk savvy with me one talk, 22:45 because he spoke their language, he said how is it that you touch 22:50 that tree and you are still alive? 22:53 He knew that no power, no spirit in his village could have 22:57 kept him alive from touching that tree. 23:00 He told them the story of PaPa who was on top, and Jesus 23:05 and told them the story of salvation and Jesus coming to 23:09 this world and dying on the cross. 23:11 He said we have to hold evangelist meetings. 23:14 He said they knew that our God was more powerful then 23:19 their spirits and now the sangooma man has no power in 23:24 the village and if you go there on Sabbath morning there 23:28 are people in their white robes and worshiping. 23:33 - so they're not naked? - they're not naked and they 23:36 are ready to meet Jesus when He comes. 23:38 When she came in and told me these stories, what was 23:41 amazing to me in that story was so incredible, 23:43 I realize for myself my years of damage or believe. 23:51 They believe so much that they would die when they touch 23:53 the tree that they died, and I believe so much that 23:55 I would never be well, I could never change, I could 23:58 never get over the attachment disorders and 24:00 bondage disorders and drug addiction or whatever until 24:03 I met a God that says you won't die, I can heal you. 24:07 Every story you told me, when you would leave the 24:11 Holy Spirit would just talk to me. 24:13 That is how we met is through your stories. 24:15 I'm like little kid, I would lay down and think, 24:19 where is she? I haven't heard her knocking. 24:23 So I just loved you, I loved your stories and someday 24:27 I'm hoping you will have your own show just telling 24:31 stories would be fun. 24:33 So Jim I want you to talk, I also heard your testimony 24:37 during that time in our you to tell us where you came from 24:41 and what was your walk with God like? 24:43 Because you had to give up some stuff too. 24:46 My mother was about 14 years old when she got pregnant. 24:52 She put my older brother up for adoption right after he 24:57 was born and from what I understand she basically went 25:01 from pillar to post as the expression goes, she didn't 25:05 have a lot of normalcy herself. 25:07 She got pregnant when she was about 16 and was in 25:11 Richmond Virginia and I was born about six months later. 25:16 I understand I was about 10 weeks early and when I was a 25:20 few months old. - you was born at home? - yes. 25:29 They found out I had cerebral palsy so I added that to a 25:34 long list of other crazy things that I went through 25:39 growing up and dealing with the CP. 25:41 When you were a kid with cerebral palsy did you need 25:46 assistance in walking? Are any of that stuff? 25:50 When I was very small I had night braces that did not 25:53 bend at the knee and then I had day braces that did. 25:57 I remember the night braces were very painful because 26:02 I had muscles spasms and issues with flexibility so I did 26:08 not like wearing those night braces. 26:10 Because your mom was a kid, how did 26:13 she deal with your CP? How did she deal with all that? 26:17 I think she thought he was basically normal that he will 26:21 outgrow this and he will be okay. 26:23 I guess in a sense you could say I turned out okay, 26:27 but it was not okay growing up. 26:29 It was tough, but there were a lot of things I had to go 26:33 through, a lot of growing, a lot of things I had to deal 26:36 with. - she had different people coming in and out of 26:40 her life because of her relationship addictions. 26:42 Was she a drinker, or did she have any of that? 26:44 As far as I can remember she did not have issues with 26:50 drugs or drinking until I was about six years old and my 26:55 mother married a man in the Virginia area who became what 26:59 I knew as my stepfather. 27:02 They got involved heavily in drinking and drugs and going 27:06 out at night and getting into trouble. 27:08 So when you were six what did you do at night? 27:11 I was left alone by myself and it got to be such a normal 27:17 for me thing that I would set the alarm and get myself up 27:22 make my own breakfast and get ready for school. 27:26 From what I can remember, one time when my mother and 27:31 stepfather got arrested for breaking into a place, they 27:36 didn't even tell the policeman that they had 27:38 a handicapped child at home. 27:40 - they got arrested and were in jail? 27:42 Right, and they didn't tell anybody. 27:45 I was a week, maybe two weeks by myself before 27:49 anybody figured it out. 27:51 You are taking care of yourself, getting all your meals 27:53 getting to school and doing all that? - right. 27:55 You did it? - right, I think the teachers got suspicious 27:59 because I didn't change clothes often enough. 28:01 What's interesting to me is when you say that is that 28:06 there are kids that are doing that and nobody knows and 28:10 until all the sudden, like you said, didn't you wear that 28:14 same shirt all week long or whatever. 28:16 The child has to play it off, I met a child in her first 28:20 grade that was stealing food to eat so that stuff happens. 28:24 When you tell the story and you are saying this right now, 28:28 there is a part of me that says it is hard to believe 28:31 that people or kids are having to learn that. 28:35 You are very self-reliant. 28:37 Also he had a woman at the CP school, she is still in his 28:44 life, her name is Ingo Horvitz. 28:47 She lives in Richmond Virginia and see was the 28:50 occupational therapist at the school. 28:52 She has known Jim since he was four or five years old and 28:59 she said Lori I started taking notes on him and his life. 29:05 She has bought him things, she was very excited when we 29:11 were married and had our children. 29:13 We saw her this summer, we went to visit her. 29:17 She is so amazed, knowing his background. 29:24 So did you get any kind of Christianity, 29:30 any of that growing up? 29:32 No, when I was small I only heard about God in a negative 29:37 way as far as the swearing and that kind of thing. 29:40 No Christian training or anything. 29:42 So I really admire people that have the Christian home 29:47 and I am glad that everybody doesn't have to go through 29:52 what I did. - yeah, because sometimes when I started 29:56 listening to some of the more normal lives and heard 29:59 people talking about being loved and being wrapped up 30:03 and held as a baby, or loved on as a little kid and 30:06 there was a part of me that would tear up and say 30:09 I wonder what that feels like? 30:11 And the same with you is I wonder what that feels like 30:13 because you didn't know. 30:14 Well your mom loved you, she loved you. 30:17 By then he was raised by foster care. 30:19 - how did you get in foster care? 30:21 When I was about eight years old my mother and stepfather 30:27 were arrested, after they've figured out I was by myself 30:32 then they put me in foster care. 30:35 What were your foster folks like? 30:37 Most of them were very nice and I think they did the best 30:41 they could, I don't want to make anyone think they were 30:46 all bad or anything like that. 30:47 I never really felt part of their family. 30:50 When you say most of them, you were with more than one 30:52 foster family? - right, about eight. 30:55 - about eight! - yes. - oh shut up. 30:57 You poor thing, I just want to grab you and say I'm so 31:00 sorry, because there is a part of me that says God does 31:03 have to come in and change a lot of things, but the 31:06 damage that happened to a child that is not loved and 31:09 passed around and not belonging is absolutely huge. 31:13 There is something so to the core of who you are that 31:18 doesn't get nurtured or fed. 31:21 How did you survive those? 31:23 Well I think that God gave me a strong constitution and 31:30 determination, I think that is the only way to explain it. 31:35 - somehow He poured into you survival skills. - right. 31:39 Now I will have to admit that there were times that I had 31:45 pity parties and depression, having mixed feelings about 31:49 myself and my future, wondering how I was going to get 31:54 past my past and knowing my future looked bleak. 32:01 With that, how did you get to a point where things 32:08 started turning around for you? 32:10 When I was about 16 and I had gone through all these 32:13 foster homes, they had ran out of places to put me so 32:17 they transferred me from county care to state care. 32:21 - how come that does not sound good to me? 32:23 It's not because when you going to state care they have 32:26 to process you and you go to detention centers, 32:30 what kids know today as juvenile hall. 32:34 He became a juvenile case? No! I fell through the cracks. 32:37 I was basically a good kid but they didn't have 32:40 anywhere else to put me, they didn't have anywhere 32:42 to put good kids. 32:44 So they processed me by putting me through juvey and 32:50 then some of these other institutions. 32:52 Then what did Ingo do? - the women at the CP school? 32:57 Yes. - to me as far as human people go, humans rather, 33:02 she is definitely a hero to me. 33:04 - she was like an angel? - yes. 33:06 So when I was at one of these places, I'm going to get 33:11 teared up here, anyway I was at one of these places and 33:15 she found out about it and was so alarmed that I was in 33:18 this institution that she contacted one of the people 33:22 she knew was a lawyer, or a counselor and he started 33:25 trying to pull some strings to get me out of there and 33:29 get me into a halfway house. 33:31 This is a teacher? She was an occupational therapist. 33:36 So there were people along the way. 33:39 - when you see her tell her that we all love her. 33:43 I sure will. - you know it's interesting as you talk 33:46 that a lot of people in a number of ways fall through 33:49 the cracks and what you are saying is they didn't even 33:52 know where to put you because you had experiences that 33:54 you probably should have never had in your life. 33:57 On top of that dealing with cerebral palsy, dealing with 34:01 the fact that your mom was not around. 34:04 The broken home, but drinking, the drugs, and on top of 34:08 that my stepfather was very, not only did he neglect us 34:12 as a family, he was also very abusive. 34:14 Physically and emotionally, so I was a mess when God 34:19 finally got my attention. 34:21 How did He did your attention? Because that is my 34:23 favorite part of any story. 34:24 There is a book called 'the Hound of Heaven', 34:27 He's on us like hound because He wants so desperately 34:30 for us to turn around and see His face because I will 34:34 never let you go, and never let up. 34:36 I so want to teach you that I'm here and have you turned 34:39 to Me and so how did that happen in your life? 34:41 Well I guess I grew up with the mentality that if we 34:45 want anything in life we will have to get it ourselves. 34:48 That nobody, the world doesn't owe us anything. 34:52 - nobody is going to do for you. - right. 34:54 If you want something you're going to have to do it 34:56 yourself and so it was a pull yourself up by your own 34:58 bootstraps kind of mentality. 35:00 When I got to be about 16 or 17 and I had gone through 35:04 all these foster homes and gone through the institutions 35:08 and state care and got into a halfway house and got a 35:12 full-time job, by this time they tried to reunite me with 35:16 my mother too and that didn't work out. 35:19 We had so many issues, neither one of us had, had any 35:22 counseling of any kind and so we did not know how to 35:26 relate to each other. 35:27 We were so much alike but we had so much pain with some 35:29 of the issues that we didn't know how to deal with it. 35:32 Not only with ourselves, but with each other so it was just 35:37 a compound that never went anywhere. 35:39 And then there was the step father, the second stepfather 35:41 that despised the ground that Jim walked on. 35:44 - he came later, he was very jealous. 35:45 - was a jealous of you, were you a lot of work because 35:49 of the cerebral palsy? - not really. 35:52 So it wasn't that because you have learned to 35:54 take care of yourself totally. - right. 35:55 But he was so attached to my mother that anytime I took 36:02 away, so it was an interference. 36:05 Anyway, when I was 16 or 17 I had gone through all these 36:10 institutions and halfway house and everything and an 36:15 attempt to reunite with my mother I was working in the 36:20 Pennsylvania by then, at a processing plant. 36:23 Here I am a vegetarian working in a meat plant, 36:26 a meat processing plant. 36:27 - how did you do that? It made you more vegetarian! 36:30 Yeah, yeah definitely, I could tell you stories because 36:32 there are folks probably say that will never give up 36:35 meat but if I could tell you stories, 36:36 you would change your mind. 36:38 I heard some of the stories they're disgusting so go 36:41 on with the story. 36:42 I was working at a processing plant and there was a girl 36:45 there about my age, 16 or 17 years old, named Debbie 36:48 she was a member of the Mennonite Church. 36:55 She started sharing Jesus with me. 36:57 What she was saying just started sinking in. 37:03 Jim I have to ask you this because in my own life, when 37:07 I started to realize, as a neglected child, that there 37:11 there was a God and He loves me, it was so cool. 37:15 When you started to realize that there is a God and you 37:18 can turn it over and you don't have to carry it all 37:22 yourself, how did that feel? 37:24 It was awesome because I had a lot of issues and a lot 37:29 of weight on my shoulders. 37:30 I was at the point, I came home from work one day. 37:34 I worked from 6 p. m.. to 2 a. m. shift, can you imagine 37:39 that? Then I came home one morning after working and 37:43 I was sitting there on my bed in the dark and looking 37:46 out the window thinking I didn't really want to kill 37:50 myself but I was at the point where I didn't want to go 37:53 on living the way I was. 37:55 I realized I had tried everything as far as trying to 38:01 take care of my self and get past my problems and get over 38:05 my hurts and all this, I was like I can't do anything more. 38:09 I've gone as far as I can go and it's not good enough. 38:12 I heard this still small voice, Jesus loves you. 38:16 I argued with it a little bit, no, nobody loves me. 38:20 Yes, Jesus loves you and finally I said okay. 38:24 I knelt down by my bed and I didn't really know how to 38:28 pray but I prayed the simplest way I knew how. 38:30 I said Jesus if you love me, I'll give you all that I am 38:34 and all that I have, it's Yours. 38:36 - come into my life, and really it's fun to think 38:39 about that is that God doesn't care we don't know how to pray, 38:42 He says just talk to Me. 38:43 If you want to kneel down, kneel down because it's a cool 38:46 thing to do, but if you want to stand up, if you want to 38:48 do back flips was talking to Me, just talk away. 38:51 I asked you to, you wrote a song, 'A Still Small Voice', 38:55 I asked you if you would sing that and I would like you 38:59 to sing that and tell us about the song, about why 39:05 you wrote it, and what it means to you? 39:07 It is amazing, the first time I heard it I just hummed 39:11 the whole time, I couldn't stop repeating it because it 39:15 was so incredible, so we are going to go ahead and 39:17 have you do that. 39:19 Ben is going to go ahead and bring your guitar over. 39:24 Start telling us a little bit about the song 39:27 while he does that. 39:29 Okay the song is called, 'A Still Small Voice' 39:31 and it is based on what I told you of my testimony. 39:37 But it is primarily based on the story that took place 39:42 before the song was written. 39:44 I was at a one-day workshop, and I couldn't even tell 39:48 you what the workshop was all about. 39:49 In the workshop the host gave everyone pieces of paper 39:55 and gave us pencils and said what I want you to do is 39:59 draw a line down the middle and I want you to put all 40:04 your good points on the left and all your and all your 40:09 bad points on the right and I want 40:12 you to be painfully honest. 40:13 No one is going to see this paper, not even me. 40:16 I want you to write all of this down, I think the reason 40:19 he did that was so he could tell how well we knew 40:23 ourselves and so that is what I did. 40:25 Needless to say one side was nearly full and hardly 40:30 anything on the other side. 40:32 That is what I thought when you said that, oh man I would 40:34 have a blank one side, especially during the first part 40:37 of recovery. - right and I thought, sometimes I thought 40:40 back and thought it would be fun if I still had that 40:42 piece of paper, but I don't think I have it anymore. 40:45 Everybody at home probably made that paper for themselves 40:49 and put the line down and realized that on their one 40:52 side, the negative stuff fill that up. 40:54 So I totally understood what you said. 40:56 What is really neat is when you thinking about the fact that 41:01 I don't have that list anymore is that I do not need to have 41:03 the things on the list either because 41:05 I can give them all to God. 41:07 So go ahead and sing the song for us. 41:08 Thank you. 41:18 Sometimes I get discouraged, 41:22 feel down and sort of blue. 41:25 The still small voice behind me, 41:29 says Jesus died for you. 41:32 Sometimes I start complaining, 41:36 when things don't go my way. 41:39 A still small voice behind me, 41:43 says I'll walk with you today. 41:49 Sometimes I lacked self-confidence, 41:53 have poor self-esteem. 41:56 A still small voice behind me, 41:59 says my strength can intervene. 42:03 Sometimes I tend to put things off, 42:07 don't know what to do. 42:10 A still small voice behind me, 42:14 says I will see you through. 42:19 Sometimes I'm independent, a proud and selfish man. 42:26 A still small voice behind me, 42:30 says behold my feet and hands. 42:34 Sometimes I asked why he cares for me, 42:37 and how I need to know. 42:40 A still small voice behind me, 42:45 says because I love you so. 42:55 Amen, Amen the fact that God took every single negative 43:00 that you wrote down He said let me just tell you the 43:04 truth about that negative. 43:06 I love you and I died for you and I will walk you through 43:09 that because that is amazing. 43:11 So when you turned it over to God what were the changes 43:16 in your life, what was the changes in yourself personally? 43:22 I had to learn social skills, feeling comfortable being 43:26 around other people. - wasn't that the hardest thing? 43:30 Yeah. - I think normal folks that know how to do that have 43:33 no idea how it is. It is so tough. 43:36 To even say how do you walk under a conversation and just 43:39 join in, I had no idea. 43:41 Learning what is appropriate to say or do, and I know 43:47 several years ago I somehow got involved in door-to-door 43:53 selling and that was such a turning point for me. 43:56 When I was very small, like two, three years old, I was so 44:01 afraid of people, so backwards socially that I would burst 44:05 into tears if I was approached to quickly by a stranger. 44:09 So God just said let me let you practice this so you are 44:13 okay. - I learned that it is not all about me, 44:17 but about what Jesus can do through me. 44:20 What's amazing to me too is the more I learn somebody's 44:24 testimony shared with me, who they were as a kid and how 44:28 God has led them, I feel such a love for them. 44:31 Even as you are talking and share that I feel such a 44:34 love for you and the things that you have overcome in 44:37 your life and how you let God lead. 44:39 As we open up and share with people, we get 44:43 closer together not further apart. 44:45 I think the devil convinces us, don't say that because 44:48 people will think you are strange, it is not true. 44:54 We end up gaining a love based compassion for what 44:59 people have gone through, how cool is that? 45:02 I'm going to jump way up because you guys got married and 45:04 that's probably a great story for another show. 45:07 I want to meet your son, you have a son now that I've met. 45:10 He told me some stories of how he found God. 45:13 You know where to go with this. 45:17 He was 13, I think it was really a neat time that he 45:26 heard God's voice, he heard the voice of the Holy Spirit. 45:29 That was in 1999. 45:32 - hey let's let Jonathan tell the story. 45:34 Jonathan. - well at this time I was doing door-to-door 45:40 sales or mega-booking. 45:42 There is this program where they didn't allow you to have 45:49 any CD players or any type of music. 45:52 My daughter would die, if you took her music 45:56 away she would die. 45:57 We were highly isolated, it was just crazy. 46:03 So during this time I was like really upset and I didn't 46:09 want to do anything but I had to because at that program 46:14 my parents were there and it would be really embarrassing. 46:19 - you were selling Christian books door-to-door. 46:24 This one day I went out and I was going down this 46:30 one street and I saw this house and I was thinking 46:35 I don't want to do that house because it had 46:36 a beware of dog sign. 46:38 It had a big fence around it and I was thinking I'm not 46:41 going to do that house. 46:43 - I want to live past today. 46:44 Yeah, really so I went up to one side of the street and 46:49 kept thinking no I'm not going to do that house. 46:53 There was this voice in my head that kept saying you need 46:55 to do that house. 46:57 So I got to the house and I was no I'm not going to do 47:02 that house, so I passed the house and got it a few houses 47:06 down and couldn't believe I was going to do this. 47:10 I turned around and went back to the house. 47:13 - because God never lets up, if He impresses you to do 47:16 something He will not let up. 47:18 That is right! So I got back to the house and went 47:22 through the gate and I was like, I'm crazy for doing this. 47:28 So I got to the door and I knocked on it and there was no 47:32 answer, then this huge dog comes running around the house. 47:37 He was probably German Shepherd up past my waist. 47:43 I was freaking out -and knocking on the door I'm sure? 47:51 I was shaking inside, I was going bonkers, but outside it 47:59 was like I was calm still. 48:01 This dog is on the porch and was barking and growling the 48:07 entire time, but there was like a wall or a line 48:11 he couldn't go past. 48:12 So I was standing there, it seemed like forever, it was 48:18 like 10 minutes or something and I was knocking and 48:23 knocking and knocking and waiting. 48:25 Something kept telling me you need to wait. 48:28 I was like well I've gotten this far in the dog hasn't 48:32 attacked me so I might as well listened to the voice. 48:36 So finally this little elderly lady comes out 48:42 and she has this look of shock on her face, amazement. 48:45 You're the first person that hasn't called me ahead of time, 48:52 that hasn't been mauled by my dog. 48:55 I was amazed by that, but I didn't show it to her I just 49:03 went ahead with my canvas being the salesman I am. 49:09 I canvassed her on the Great Controversy and Peace Above 49:18 the Storm and she ended up getting those books. 49:22 That was a real blessing for me. 49:24 - you probably got them because she knew that God's hand 49:27 was on you, you were alive still at her door. 49:32 So is that when God became real to you? 49:33 Yes, I mean I was like wow how can He keep dogs from me? 49:42 All this stuff was happening, how else would I hear 49:50 a voice in my head about going to this house? 49:53 That was kind of a spiritual high, 50:00 but I still wasn't won over yet. 50:07 I remember you tell me you really got a lot of good stuff 50:11 from Pastor Dan at Black Hills when you moved there with 50:15 your folks. - yeah, in between that time 50:20 I was just crazy and wouldn't listen. 50:25 You're just arguing with your folks. - yet I would listen 50:28 to them but we moved to Black Hills and it was like 50:32 Green acres out in the middle of nowhere. 50:36 At first I didn't like it but it started growing on me. 50:42 Then our neighbor Pastor Dan and Patsy and his two sons. 50:50 I became friends with their children so during Friday 50:56 afternoon's he would start having youth meetings and we 51:02 will go over there and sing out of the hymnals. 51:04 Then we would have Bible studies with a group and it 51:10 started getting me closer, but I didn't notice it yet. 51:16 So basically I started doing personal Bible studies 51:22 with them and he invited me to do that and 51:24 I started doing that. 51:26 I eventually gave my heart to God and was baptized. 51:33 I think like Jim when you were talking about your whole 51:38 testimony too is that God worked in your life, with 51:42 you guys being married and that is an incredible story. 51:47 What we don't have time and then God was working on your 51:51 son and that still small voice is speaking to every single 51:56 one of us, every single one of you. 51:58 And now is leading you Jonathan to closer walk with God. 52:02 I know there is questions today and I would like to first 52:06 start with Sam, Sam do you have a question? 52:08 Jim you mentioned the Mennonite young lady who was the one 52:15 who introduced you to Jesus. Briefly if you could tell us 52:20 how did you become a Seventh-day Adventist Christian? 52:26 Well after I surrendered my life to the Lord while I was 52:30 living in Pennsylvania and working at this processing 52:34 plant, I moved back to Richmond Virginia where I was 52:38 originally from and got a job in a nursing home. 52:41 The nursing home was actually walking distance from a 52:46 local Seventh-day Adventist church and I worked in the 52:50 kitchen washing pots and pans. 52:53 Would you wash my pots and pans? 52:55 - after the show. So my supervisor at the nursing home 53:00 was a Seventh-day Adventist and she started sharing 53:05 with me about the Sabbath and some other things in the 53:09 Bible and she'd learned that I was a new Christian and 53:13 didn't have a church home. 53:14 She invited me to church and as soon as I got my first 53:19 Sabbath off where I work, because people have to eat, 53:24 on weekends too so I started going to church and I knew 53:29 from my first Sabbath at church that this is where 53:31 God wanted me to be. 53:33 So you were studying all those issues? 53:35 Right I started going and kept going to church and one 53:39 Sabbath I just told the pastor well, when are you 53:42 going to baptize me? 53:44 What I love and we have less than a minute. 53:48 But what I love about your whole story and listening to 53:52 how God has led, it is that all of heaven really took you 53:55 on an adopted you. 53:57 It says we are adopted into the family of God and joint 54:01 heirs with Christ and for some of us that means everything 54:05 because we don't have a home, we don't have family, we have 54:08 been put from place to place and you will no longer be put to 54:11 another place, you are for ever in this family. 54:15 I think how cool is that. 54:17 Do you have anything else to say? Just quickly. 54:21 My only regret is that I didn't get to know the Lord 54:26 sooner, but I don't dwell on that, I dwell on the fact 54:32 I have the Lord now and He is awesome and that 54:33 He is bigger than any problem I have. 54:36 I can let go of my past and live in the present 54:39 but look forward to the future. 54:41 Amen, I love that and like you said the regrets about not 54:46 having God sooner, somebody used to tell me that. 54:48 They said if one day Cheri you are going to look at your 54:53 past and not regret any of it, not want to change any of 54:57 it, I thought are they crazy, are they absolutely crazy? 55:01 Did you hear about my past? 55:03 Now today, I wouldn't change anything because it really 55:06 makes me who I am, I can sit in front of people that have 55:10 hurts and dysfunctions and I know what they have been 55:13 through, I know what they feel, I know their abandonment 55:16 issues and I know there is a God in heaven that says 55:19 I am bigger than that. 55:20 I will walk you every step of the way and I promise 55:23 you will be healed and I love that so I wouldn't change 55:26 a thing, we will be right back stay with us. 55:34 Cheri Peters uses the book, 'Coming Of The Comforter' 55:37 as a guide for the second season of Celebrating Life In 55:40 Recovery, written by Lee Roy E. Froom is a 320 page book 55:44 that offers every sinner the knowledge that the 55:47 Holy Spirit is available to all. 55:49 3ABN now offers this book to you for a suggested donation 55:52 of only $13 postpaid within the US. 55:55 Call 3ABN at 618-627-4651 or go online to 3ABN.org. 56:16 I love the way God leads us, I love the way He speaks to 56:19 us, I love the Holy Spirit and that still small voice 56:23 that Jim sang about when he reassures us of our recovery 56:27 and reassures us of His love for us. 56:30 His presence in our life and I'm going to read my favorite 56:33 text Jeremiah 29:11 and has been from the very minute 56:36 I got into recovery. 56:38 When someone first read this to me I wept like a baby 56:41 because it says, "for I know the thoughts and plans that I 56:44 "have for you" and I'm thinking nobody has plans for me. 56:48 Nobody has thoughts of me, my mother didn't even want me. 56:51 She tried to self abort six different times. 56:53 It says right here that God, God has plans for me. 56:57 He has thoughts of me and it goes on to say that "his 57:01 "plans for me are for peace and not for evil to give me 57:06 "hope and a future. " And verse 12 says, "then you will 57:09 "call upon me and you will come and pray to me and 57:13 I will hear you. " 57:14 I just love that and you know everybody here in this room, 57:17 everybody here watching I'm sure has felt that sense 57:20 when they have called on God and He has heard them 57:23 and spoke to them. 57:24 And 13 is one of my favorites, and you have to hear this 57:28 part because it says, "then you will seek me, inquire of 57:33 "me as a vital necessity in your life and find me when you 57:37 "search for me with all your heart. " 57:39 "And I will be found by you. " 57:42 I love the fact that God says, search for Me, expect Me 57:46 to speak to you, expect for Me to lead you in because 57:50 I have plans for you, I have a future for you, 57:53 I have prayers for you and one more thing I want to read 57:56 and it says the measure of the Holy Spirit that we receive 57:59 will be proportionate to the measure that we desire or in 58:02 the faith that we exercise for it. 58:04 Ellen White said that, if I'm not seeking 58:08 God for that kind of recovery, if I am not seeking God for 58:11 that kind of healing. I won't find it. 58:13 If I seek He will give me as much as I need in order to 58:16 get into recovery, so I'm going to beg you to seek after 58:20 God and until then remember God is crazy about you. 58:23 And me too, see you next time. |
Revised 2014-12-17