Participants: Cheri Peters (Host), Max Rivera
Series Code: CLR
Program Code: CLR000049B
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00:13 Welcome back, this is my favorite segment where
00:16 I get to introduce you to some friends of mine. 00:18 You get to see in someone else's life what God is doing. 00:22 It's just my favorite part. 00:25 So I want to introduce you to Max Rivera, Max I want 00:27 to say thank you so much for being on the program. 00:29 You're welcome, thank you for inviting me. 00:31 The first time I saw you was that my church in Idaho 00:34 and I remember coming in and I don't even know what I 00:38 expected, I knew that someone was coming in to do a testimony, 00:41 and I love testimonies, but I didn't realize that there 00:45 was gone be somebody from my own background, right? 00:48 As I was watching you, as you were telling your 00:51 testimony I literally wanted to stand on the chair 00:54 and just holler up to heaven and say I love you Max. 00:58 I remember as you were talking, alright go on, 01:01 come on, and I couldn't even shut up. 01:04 So I want you to just tell us, where did you come 01:09 from and how did you meet God, and why are you here? 01:12 Well by 19 years old I was charged and convicted 01:19 with 4 felony counts for aggravated assault. 01:24 In those situations you don't get their overnight, 01:28 there is definitely a lot of drama that 01:30 happened before then. 01:31 By 19- by 19 years old - when I think about 01:35 a 19 year-old. 01:36 Every once in a while to you stop and look at a 01:39 19-year-old and think I was a baby? 01:41 Oh yeah, definitely, definitely. 01:43 That is the time when you were thinking about college, 01:46 maybe your in college, you're thinking about a career, or 01:49 maybe a family, while I was thinking about wrong things. 01:53 It started young, my dad, he was connected to the Mafia so 01:57 there were a lot of mafia-ism, as we would call it. 02:03 Hit men, a lot of abusers and drug users and everything 02:07 you can think of in and through our house. 02:09 So as a kid you watch this happen and what do 02:13 you want to do - role models - and you want 02:15 to be exactly like them. 02:17 It's tragic, as a kid you can't discern right from 02:22 wrong, you are looking for someone to give you 02:24 direction and that was the direction that was handed me. 02:27 I really worked hard to fill those shoes. 02:30 For people who don't know that, what is really 02:34 interesting to me about that kind of environment, 02:36 is even as a little tiny kid, when you start playing 02:39 somebody they are like, look at that, good for you. 02:43 And do you know what I mean, so it is even people love 02:46 the fact that maybe if you want drink a beer, or you 02:48 want to play somebody, or start lying or what ever, 02:51 it's like it's not disciplined, it is looked at as 02:55 you're going to be good, you're going to be fine. 02:58 Max: right! That's the thing, you are encouraged 03:01 within the realm that you live in through the people 03:05 that you are close to. 03:06 Here's the marijuana, here's the alcohol, and all 03:12 that stuff is introduced so it is not like you have 03:14 to go far to find it - right! 03:15 In the middle of all of what I saw, I saw abuse, 03:20 I was abused, I learned how to abuse and those 03:25 of you who have been there and done that you know 03:26 what I am talking about. 03:28 It was very corrupt, but I didn't understand it. 03:31 I thought it was normal living. 03:32 As you go through some things, some things hurt you more 03:39 than others, so you learn how to harden your heart. 03:41 You learn how to isolate yourself and distance yourself 03:44 from people, to not allow yourself to be emotional 03:47 about certain things because you know you are trying 03:50 to withstand what ever wins, but what that ends up 03:53 doing is preparing you for your wins and you know how 03:55 hide those things in your heart. 03:58 So I became real hard, and learned how to fight. 04:01 Cheri: Give somebody an age thing because I think 04:05 sometimes we think of it older than it is. 04:08 You are learning this at what ages? 04:11 Max: at 7, 8, 9, my mom was 21 years old, and she had 6 04:17 of us kids and she was trying to figure out life 04:19 as a 21-year-old. 04:21 My dad went to prison and it is not long before the 04:24 street becomes your influence. 04:26 It was around that age where I started to realize 04:30 that influence as I look back, experienced that abuse 04:36 by people I trusted. 04:38 It is hard because you are looking to people again 04:45 for direction, it's just hard, but through those 04:51 times, through that younger period. 04:54 I was a very inward person and it seem like it might 04:58 have been okay for me to be by myself. 05:01 People left me alone and I must have been an easy 05:04 target for somebody who is left alone. 05:06 But as I grew I learned how to use women and played 05:13 the people I was around, the only time they were 05:16 important to me was when they had something to give me. 05:19 It was hard because I would have people on their 05:23 knees, whether it was a guy or girl, 05:24 begging for attention or whatever. 05:29 I loved to inflict that kind of pain, it was hard to 05:33 believe that was that I had become that kind of person 05:36 but again I grew up around this and saw contracts of people 05:41 who were supposed to be killed, or in line to be killed. 05:42 My dads wallet, I remember nights where people would 05:47 knock on our door pleading for their life to get 05:49 some contract canceled, and my dad would leave 05:52 to go deal with that. 05:54 You see all these things growing up and again you want 05:58 to shadow them and do what they do. 06:00 Cheri: I want to be that. 06:02 Max: I did, so here I am on the streets trying to 06:07 make a name, to inflict fear, and people loving the 06:12 chance to knock somebody out, to see if with one 06:14 punch, watch their eyes roll in the back of their head, 06:17 fall in some isle of a store, or in Taco Bell 06:22 or where ever it would be. 06:23 But something in my heart, I know the Lord was 06:25 working even then, because some to my heart would 06:28 always feel remorse after I saw the person laying 06:30 there in his blood. 06:32 I always knew that it was wrong, I knew it was wrong 06:36 but I would still do it. 06:38 It was one of those things where it is like harden 06:40 your heart again, get you through this again. 06:42 So going through that, when you do something enough 06:47 you get good at it and so I used that to my advantage. 06:51 By 19 I was facing 80 years in prison, I realized that 06:56 this is something wrong, something happened 06:59 and I'm in trouble. 07:01 I knew that the way that I was arrested, I had just 07:05 gotten back from California and was in a 07:08 new car and had a pocket full of money, 07:09 a cupboard full of drugs. 07:12 I had did that run from California back to Boise 07:15 and I sat there in front of my yard and was on the 07:21 phone with the guy and there was somebody installing 07:23 a stereo in my car. 07:24 I'm thinking I've made it, this is what life 07:28 is about for a street kid. 07:31 I sat there and was looking at my car being worked on 07:36 and looked on the floor and noticed a moving van coming 07:40 and pulled in front of our house and I just thought 07:42 somebody was getting furniture. 07:44 Look down and looked up and within seconds my yard 07:48 was full of military men with assault rifles, everybody 07:52 had them pointing at us. 07:54 My parents were hog-tied, my sister was screaming 07:58 saying, listen to what they are telling you, 08:03 they are going to kill us. 08:04 It was real dramatic and just seeing my family have 08:08 to go through that because of something I did. 08:10 There were officers on the roof, my cousins jumped the 08:13 fence and they were caught on the other side. 08:15 I mean it was really hard because we had left two 08:18 men to die under a bridge and thought we had 08:22 gotten away with it. 08:23 These mean I remember the emotion that I had watching 08:29 these men die, it was just one of those things, they 08:33 didn't die by God's grace, but watching them bleed, 08:37 it was one of those things where it didn't affect me. 08:40 I knew there was some kind of evil presence within me 08:43 that allowed me to smile while somebody 08:46 was in pain like that. 08:47 Nobody should have to deal with that kind of pain, but 08:51 that was why we was there and we thought we got away 08:52 with it, but here we go with the SWAT team and half 08:56 the National Guard had picked us up. 08:58 I was sitting in this cell, high on Meth and full of alcohol 09:02 knowing that the devil's presence was in that cell. 09:06 It was just one of those things where I realized that 09:11 I messed up, I need to call on God. 09:15 Cheri: when you say that, that I felt the Devil 09:19 himself, in my cell. 09:20 I felt the demonic influence. 09:22 I think people that are more normal and are going to 09:25 church, even though they speak on that. 09:27 They know that is a biblical thing, that there is an 09:29 evil side, is that I think unless you have been in 09:33 that lifestyle you really don't know how real that is. 09:36 Max: you know the thing is because I have been through 09:39 experiences where I didn't, for whatever reason 09:43 I didn't feel it. 09:44 I have been shot at, we were at a park one time 09:46 were these guys put a bullet in a friend of mine 09:50 and we caught him and he was sitting there bleeding 09:53 and we threw him in a car and headed straight 09:55 towards these guys. 09:57 As soon as we turn around I'm thinking all of us 09:59 are going to die because there is about 5 guys 10:01 pointing guns at us. 10:02 As soon as we turn around and they shoot again so it 10:04 is like the Fourth of July and it hits again my friend, 10:10 who is like cousin but he hit him again in the head 10:13 and it blew out a piece of his skull right here. 10:16 A chunk of skin and everything ended up on the back 10:19 head rest, so I saw that. 10:21 I stabbed people, I shot people there was nothing 10:25 that made me feel that like this time I felt when 10:29 I was sitting in that cell. 10:31 It was one of those things that I knew of a God, 10:36 I knew to respect the name of God because I grew up 10:41 with a Catholic background, so I called Him. 10:44 I said, God I'm in trouble, but it was like a Jonah prayer. 10:48 Please I'm sorry for the circumstances get me away 10:52 from this, but my heart hadn't changed and so I was 10:54 sitting there asking God to help me. 10:56 He knew that it was time but he wasn't going to release 10:59 me and I was sitting there in a cell with capital crime 11:03 inmates, the robbers, the rapers, the murderers, they 11:08 are all sitting on this tier and I am 19 years old. 11:10 As big as I am I shouldn't feel intimidated by that, 11:13 but I was 120 pounds, I'm not a big guy and 11:19 these guys were huge. 11:20 When you said that I thought he's not that big 11:23 Charlie get up here - no kidding! 11:26 It is funny because even when I went to prison people 11:31 always looked for some huge guy. 11:34 My first day of prison a huge officer said, Max Rivera, 11:40 and I looked and I'm just this little guy waving his 11:44 hand, and he said, you are Max Rivera? 11:48 He said we supposed to expect some things from you in 11:51 this prison, I said I don't know what you are talking 11:53 about, and he said, yeah, right get in line. 11:55 But I've always had that, you know dynamite comes 11:59 in small packages and I think an evil heart is just 12:02 unpredictable, you know it is really unpredictable. 12:05 Cheri: You know when you have that much pain and that 12:07 much anger and where you have hardened your heart to 12:10 that point that you can do anything. 12:12 Max: You really can, you really can and the worst person 12:14 to me is somebody who doesn't care, and I didn't care. 12:17 I didn't care about consequences I didn't think about 12:20 them, it was just the place where I repented and came to 12:28 that place where I knew I had done something wrong. 12:31 But even still there were some things I had to work out. 12:35 Even after I confessed and I knew I was in the mercy 12:38 seat and I wanted to change and do some different with 12:41 my life, even still you have the memories of all this 12:44 junk still with you. 12:45 Cheri: so wait, wait before you even go there, 12:48 because you were sitting there calling out to God 12:50 but knowing that I haven't had that heart change. 12:52 It sounds like at one point that heart change happened, 12:55 so what got you to the point where I actually know 13:00 that I need it? I want it to change. 13:03 Well I know that the Lord, He gives us a conscious 13:09 and we have to ignore it long enough before it 13:11 doesn't work for us anymore. 13:13 That Holy Spirit, you learn to ignore it and not 13:19 listen to it so there are those points where 13:21 you are on the mercy seat. 13:23 Cheri: you just want to warn people that are watching 13:25 is don't ignore it, because you literally sever your 13:28 own conscience and the Holy Spirit can not, 13:30 after a while, get through to you and that is dangerous. 13:32 I do think that there is something in us that knows 13:36 right and wrong, but you have to ignore again the Holy 13:39 Spirit, you have to ignore your conscience long enough 13:42 to wear that voice is no longer of any profit for you. 13:46 I was sitting in that cell and I heard that, and I 13:50 thought Lord I do want to change, but again it was 13:53 because of my situation. 13:54 I just wanted to get out of jail. 13:55 I didn't want to be one of these prisoners with 13:58 their name, or with their number across their chest. 14:01 I just didn't want that and I had many family members, 14:04 friends who went down that line, and I experienced 14:07 that early as an adult, charged as an adult 14:12 at 17 years of age and went through the 14:15 California jail system. 14:16 I'll tell you what they run that, it's a real scary 14:20 place for a 17-year-old, and I'm a 120 pounds going 14:24 into an adult prison. 14:26 You have got these full-grown men 14:29 - that also don't care. 14:31 Max: That also don't care and I've heard it said in a 14:34 poem, I read it while I was in prison, you've got the arm pit 14:37 of society, you know there's some good guys in there, 14:40 there's some great people and there and you just want 14:42 to wrap your arms around them believe the best and know 14:44 that they are good, but there is a devil and he messes 14:49 with their mind, and for those who follow his voice 14:52 can do real unpredictable things. 14:55 You are in there with these men and sitting there 14:57 trying to be a man at 17 and not drop the soap because 15:02 you are in a shower with a bunch of men naked and 15:05 you don't want nobody messing with you in anyway. 15:07 I had the influence of my dad and as soon as I walked 15:12 in I was handed groceries, I was handed my clothes, 15:15 and I was handed extra things. 15:17 Cheri: because they knew your father. 15:19 Yeah and they said my name was the same, I had my dad's 15:22 name so it wasn't hard for them to figure that out. 15:26 They said if anybody gives you any trouble you let me 15:31 know and we will take care of for you. 15:33 That was like, I'm a man, I'm 17 years old, 15:39 but I wasn't a man, I was a boy trying to play in a man's world. 15:45 I remember some guys took my boots and they were some 15:49 big, big guys and I knew I would be like a fly on 15:55 their shoulder, I wasn't a big guy in any way compared 15:59 to these 300 pound men and they stole my boots. 16:03 I was trying to figure out how do you take care of 16:06 6 guys, how do you beat up 6 guys, I have nothing 16:11 to defend myself? 16:12 Cheri: but you know it's so crazy and I love when 16:14 you say that because we get so crazy that that is our 16:16 first thought, not that I should run, it's like how 16:20 am I going to do this?, what am I going to pick up, 16:21 what weapons are around me? 16:23 And that is what a lot of people don't understand, 16:26 it doesn't matter your size when you get that crazy, 16:28 I'm going to take you out and it may not be today, 16:30 but I will figure a way. 16:32 And that is where you were at, even in prison. 16:35 And the sad part about it is I had a cousin there 16:37 who was their size and who came in and had heard 16:41 what happened to my shoes, because the word travels, 16:44 and he came with me and said, hey what's gone on? 16:47 I said nothing I've got it taken care of, sure, yeah right! 16:49 I had nothing taken care of, it was still going 16:52 through my mind of what I'm going to do. 16:53 But he said is it these guys after you? 16:58 I said yeah. 17:01 He grabbed these cement tables that are filled with 17:03 cement and are not meant to move. 17:05 He grabbed that table and lifted it and picked them 17:08 up and they all fell to the side and said man we don't 17:10 got little brother shoes, leave us alone, we don't 17:12 want any trouble, we don't have little man shoes. 17:16 He told those shoes better be back by the end of the 17:20 evening and sure enough they were. 17:21 But what that did to me was as a 17-year-old, I want 17:25 to be like that - exactly! 17:26 Cheri: Exactly how want that much power, because I have 17:28 been powerless I want that power - exactly, exactly. 17:31 Max: so getting out of jail you put when you put wind 17:36 in your chest and walk around and there was a point 17:38 where I was fighting twice a week. 17:40 I was just looking for anybody to cross me in any way. 17:43 So all that got me into a situation where I realized 17:51 what I wanted to build this whole image that I wanted 17:55 to be wasn't really what I wanted. 17:57 These men who were full-grown, tattooed from here to here, 18:01 are on the mercy seat too and they are recognizing 18:04 that they are powerless. 18:05 All this manhood that you think you had, now it is Chow 18:10 time, now you can only have two socks, a pair one suit, 18:16 you are being told everything so you lose all control 18:18 you thought you had. 18:20 Cheri: went to get up, went to go to bed, what to 18:23 think, what to say. 18:25 Max: yeah and I'm sitting here, I get to the prison 18:27 and I'm going through the process where they are 18:31 analyzing where they are going to put you in the prison. 18:33 About 3 in the morning I get this knock on the door 18:36 and I am looking like it must be medical time and 18:39 they are going to check me, this is the procedure so 18:41 I just get up and put my jacket on. 18:43 They said, take your jacket off, take a shoes off, 18:46 and I thought man there something wrong and you listen 18:50 when people have guns because their was 3 or 4 of them. 18:53 I'm sitting there watching them and putting my hand 18:57 behind my back as they are cuffing me. 19:01 I've watched too many movies honestly, I am thinking 19:02 they are going to beat me up, this is going to get 19:05 real ugly should I try to fight them here while 19:07 there's only a few of them. 19:08 I mean you just get this crazy mind and I went to the 19:13 holes were they took me. 19:14 Cheri: now you don't get it you have it, it's yours. 19:16 Max: sometimes I still have it, but I sat in this cell 19:21 thinking what my going to do here, but I sat in that 19:25 same cell with the same clothes on for two weeks and 19:27 ended up being checked into that same cell as an 19:30 Administrate Segregation Inmate for a year. 19:36 So I stayed in this little hole 24 hours a day, 19:40 7 days a week, because of my history. 19:43 30 minutes to an hour they let you out, some days where 19:48 you can go on walk these dog kennels. 19:51 And they are depressing, because everybody in there 19:54 are on Thorazine because they are too crazy and can't 19:57 handle that kind of confinement. 19:58 So they are beating on walls and these doctors come in 20:01 and they inject them with Thorazine to mellow them out. 20:04 So it is real depressing, you are sitting in this dog 20:07 kennel and the only thing you can see is the sky, 20:09 because the walls are too high for you 20:10 to see anything else. 20:12 I remember being in that kennel where this guy had 20:18 been arrested for drugs, big, big guy jumped on the 20:21 fence and just starts shaking the fence and looking 20:26 at me and growling. 20:28 I mean he was just part animal, he might have been 20:29 all animal, but I looked at him and thought what 20:33 are you trying to do with my head. 20:35 He was trying to instill fear, is what he was trying 20:37 to do, and he's like are you scared of me and I said 20:40 the only thing I'm scared of is your face. 20:42 You are a very ugly person, it was wrong for me to 20:46 say but that is what I'm telling you, I repented but 20:48 my heart was still evil. 20:49 I was still if somebody does this I will do that and 20:53 I wasn't thinking like a Christian because God had 20:56 not renewed my heart. 20:57 I hadn't read enough of the word for Him to do that. 21:00 But that was a very freeing time that year was a freeing time 21:06 because I had a chance to just read the word and 21:09 get myself a little routine to keep me sane. 21:11 Because when you are in a little cell where all you 21:14 have is a bed and a toilet that you wash 21:17 your clothes in. 21:18 Cheri: so how did you get the Bible, had somebody 21:20 brought it in? 21:21 It was one of those free on the inside Bibles that 21:25 became a very dirty Bible, but the dirtier this is, 21:29 the cleaner this is so it really worked and the Lord 21:34 used it as a ruler to help me understand right and 21:38 wrong, what I should and shouldn't be doing, 21:40 how I should think. 21:41 By far I am not perfect in any way, there are days 21:45 that I wake up and I'm like man that's the old man, 21:48 what happened, where did that come from? 21:51 So I get to work out my salvation with fear and 21:54 trembling every day. 21:56 As you were, and I'm just asking because this has been my take 22:01 on it, that when you were in the cell and reading 22:03 the Bible didn't you come to some places where you 22:05 just think really? 22:07 You know just like the Bible asks you to reevaluate 22:10 everything, honesty and integrity, who you are, 22:13 who God is, and your response to that, and what 22:17 love is an even that concept of love. 22:19 It sounds like you never had it and so how do you 22:22 even look at the word and get some kind of meaning 22:25 around that word? 22:26 Well you know the funny thing is that, again as 22:30 a Catholic I displayed the Bible in my room, 22:32 it was like a cross. 22:34 You know you wanted some kind of protection in your 22:36 room, you were doing very bad things in that room, 22:39 but for whatever reason you just knew you had the 22:41 Bible close enough that you were good in God's eyes. 22:44 But I remember reading Matthew, and I thought if you 22:47 ever start reading you start from the beginning is 22:50 what you think, so that is what I did. 22:52 I thought begat this, begat that, first of all I 22:55 don't even know what begat means so how my supposed 22:58 to understand this thing, whatever it is this Bible? 23:02 So I would always stop, but when I got past the 23:06 begats and read the word I was like why wouldn't 23:10 somebody want to read this? 23:11 Man this is amazing it deals right with your life. 23:15 It is almost as if it was written by a God, I mean 23:18 it's amazing, it's just so perfect 23:22 - this might be true. 23:24 No kidding and that's kind of how was, I just 23:26 really fell in love with the word and I really 23:30 enjoyed just figuring out who Jesus was through 23:34 what He did in people's lives. 23:36 The power that is in His word is amazing and I 23:39 remember just being in that little cell, just 23:42 proclaiming His word out loud, singing and not 23:44 even knowing anything about any of that. 23:45 Just knowing that's what I felt like I should do. 23:48 Through that God gave me a new heart. 23:51 I remember a conversation with my brother, 23:53 because they gave me this phone where I could call, 23:56 this cordless phone and I sat there and called my family. 24:00 Of course they are partying and doing their thing. 24:01 My brother said, how is it going in there? 24:06 My uncle who is done a lot of time said you are in the worst 24:11 part of the prison, are you okay? 24:15 I said man I am experiencing so much freedom, 24:19 I have never felt so free on the inside of me. 24:22 And he said, Kato you don't have to lie to me, 24:25 I know that it is hard in there and I said listen 24:29 Menno, when we hang up this phone, you could go on with life 24:32 When I am in here I have to come back to this cell, 24:37 so by you telling me I'm in 4 walls and I can't leave, 24:41 this miserable hardest part, don't do that. 24:44 But honestly I said the Lord, I had drew a picture 24:51 and I put it on the wall with a bunch of scriptures 24:53 and the word just brought a lot of peace. 24:57 You can't purchase that, it's not on a menu at a 24:59 restaurant, you know it's not something you can 25:02 find anywhere, you have to get it by being 25:04 right in your heart. 25:07 God's Word was renewing my mind - so I want to 25:11 ask you, there are couple things, would you like to 25:15 introduce Kerry at this time, or can you ask, 25:17 can we ask you why you got out of jail? 25:19 Oh I would love to introduce Kerry, gosh, you know 25:23 yes! I would love to introduce Kerry. 25:26 I would like to say that the Bible says the truth 25:29 will set you free. 25:30 I will race through my time in prison and I'm sitting at the 25:34 parole board through that 7 years, or through that 25:38 80 years that I was facing, I only got 7 years and 25:41 only had to spend 3. 25:43 God's grace, it's amazing I'm sitting here in this 25:46 parole hearing and these guys are telling me how bad 25:50 of a person I am and how releasing me is not going to 25:53 keep the streets safe and that is their job. 25:55 I just confessed that it was my fault I am sorry, 25:59 I had a choice. 26:00 They said when you were in front of the judge before 26:03 it wasn't your fault, now it's your fault? 26:05 What's your story Max? 26:07 I said it's my fault, I had a choice and I made the 26:12 wrong choice, and those guys had a heart of stone and 26:16 I just knew, but I knew I had to be honest - exactly. 26:21 They walked out of the room and I looked back and 26:24 I see my family and they are just crying like it 26:26 was last time we are going to see him for 26:28 however many other years. 26:29 They came back and looked at me and said, young man 26:35 pack your bags, you are going to be leaving in 3 months. 26:40 Get ready you will be leaving in 3 months. 26:42 Could you just say to me, I can hear the Holy Spirit 26:47 saying don't forget I'm right with you, I'm doing this 26:51 for you, and with you. 26:53 So when I was released, when I was released I was on 26:59 as an intense pro who came to Idaho, did what I did and I 27:06 was on intense parole and that's where Kerry comes in. 27:10 So would like to introduce everyone to his parole 27:14 officer and I love this part of it. 27:17 So Kerry I want to just say man what was he like? 27:23 When you saw him, when you met him for the first 27:26 time and when you read his charts. 27:28 Oh Man his file was incredible, because it talks 27:32 about the same story that Max has told. 27:34 I was working with younger offenders and violent 27:40 offenders at the time, but when I read his file 27:43 It was like, oh Lord, this is going to be interesting. 27:46 But when I met Max, you can see that God's 27:50 fingerprint was on him, God had already done 27:54 a lot of work in Max's heart. 27:56 So what was on the file Max had already began changing. 28:00 Cheri: So God had already, it was already so evident 28:03 - right - incredible and your a Christian guy - yes! 28:06 Cheri: so that must of felt really gratifying to you 28:11 is that I'm going to work with this guy but God is 28:14 already there - yeah, it was gratifying. 28:16 So we started that process and there was some 28:19 challenges along the way. 28:20 Cheri: challenges in, what's he talking about Max? 28:23 Max: my will, it was still poking its head. 28:28 Cheri: because it's tough, that's tough work, 28:31 when somebody says, God stepped in and everything 28:34 was alright, it's like there is a work to be done. 28:37 Max: Yep there definitely was and I was like a dog, 28:42 that, because serving the Lord in 28:45 prison you are kind of confined. 28:46 You know there are some rules but once you get out 28:49 there are no rules, you do have rules but it's like 28:53 the chain came off and I was like a dog, okay what am 28:57 I going to do now? 28:58 I can either still do this God thing, maybe I will so 29:02 that Kerry is happy and then I can be okay and 29:05 released from parole and I'll be good. 29:06 Still the manipulation starts to come back and I 29:11 would do the best I could to manipulate him and be 29:13 Mr. nice, church was good Kerry, because he 29:15 invites me to church and I go to be on his good graces. 29:18 Cheri: because he can show up at your house at any time. 29:21 Any time and he did. 29:23 Cheri: so Kerry I want to ask you, you could show up 29:27 at any time and did you know that you had a lot of 29:31 work and you can see the playing and the slipping in and 29:33 out of this commitment? 29:35 Yeah you can see that, but should also see Max's 29:37 family they were all very steeped in that lifestyle. 29:40 So Max has his room in the house, and then there's 29:43 all the other stuff going on periphery, it wasn't 29:47 blatant, but you can see the telltale signs. 29:49 This family is steeped in this gang lifestyle, 29:52 alcohol and drugs, people coming and going so 29:55 I knew there were some huge challenges for Max 29:57 just to make it as a guy on a parole. 30:00 The challenges were huge - so we are not even 30:02 talking about stepping into integrity and Christianity 30:06 and all that kind of stuff. 30:08 What kinds of things did you just tell him, I would 30:12 want to grab him by the face and say this is your life, 30:15 you cannot, what kind of things did you tell him, 30:18 did you do to just help him to stand up? 30:21 The first thing that had to be done was to build 30:24 a relationship with Max more then parole officer and parolee. 30:29 because there is no relationship there, I have the 30:32 authority, do what I say and if you don't do it your 30:34 going back to prison. 30:35 You can't disciple, you can't mentor, you can't 30:38 encourage people if that's all you do. 30:41 I tried with all the guys on my caseload, 30:44 but especially with Max to build that relationship. 30:47 There were times that I kind of bent the rules that I 30:50 was supposed to operate under, but there were 30:53 good reasons for that. 30:54 Max's family is a Latino family, and they cook 30:57 incredible food and one of the rules is you don't 31:02 eat at the offenders home. 31:04 I know that that is the rule but oh my goodness food. 31:07 I'm sure with these incredible smells. 31:11 We began to build a relationship and he saw, and his 31:15 family saw, that I was really for all them, I wanted 31:18 them to succeed, but guys we have to follow the rules. 31:20 So as they saw that I wanted to help, then it was 31:23 worse because mama wanted me eat, and dad wanted me 31:26 to eat, and the brothers are like Kerry it's good 31:29 to see you we are glad you are here, thanks for 31:31 working with Max please eat. 31:32 And so there comes a point with some of those rules, 31:35 the intention of the rules is we don't want the 31:37 offenders poisoning us and we go home and die. 31:40 So you kind that step out sometimes and take a risk 31:44 and say, alright a quick plate of food, Max let's 31:48 talk about how your week is going and we built a 31:49 relationship that way. 31:51 One of my philosophies was these guys have to come 31:55 to me, stop thinking like criminals and trust me 31:58 to stay on my case load. 32:01 What am I risking, they are risking a lot, because 32:04 I'm a pro social person, I'm not an antisocial person, 32:07 I'm not an addict, I'm from the law enforcement 32:09 community so there's also reasons for them not 32:11 to trust me and open up to me. 32:13 Yet I asked them every week to trust me, 32:15 open up to me, work with me and I got to thinking 32:18 what am I risking? 32:20 Where's my side of the risk, why would they invest 32:23 in this relationship? 32:24 If they don't they're not going to succeed. 32:26 I didn't break the rules that I operated under, but I 32:30 reevaluated the rules to see their intent and see how 32:33 far I could come towards Max as a friend and encourage him. 32:38 Sometimes, literally grabbed his face and say, look 32:41 buddy your future, your destiny, your purpose, 32:43 don't throw away for this. 32:45 Cheri: so what were you risking? 32:46 Kerry: my job - right - because you have 32:50 to follow those rules. 32:52 Within the correctional environment it is unfortunate 32:56 that many times officers get compromised by offenders. 32:59 Sometimes in a romantic sexual way, sometimes just 33:02 in a friendship way. 33:04 And it is such a common occurrence that the 33:08 administrators put the rules down that you as a parole 33:11 officer have to follow the rules, and if you don't 33:13 then an investigations ensue, and if they find you 33:16 violated the rules in the wrong way, you could be let go. 33:20 You can be moved to another caseload, so there was 33:22 some risk involved. 33:24 You know what is amazing to me is when Kerry was 33:27 coming up and coming over and I know that you played 33:32 him like crazy, or tried to, but he is coming over and doing that 33:36 When did you realize that this person is probably 33:40 going to help you get your life back? 33:43 Well one of the things I think that as a convict or as 33:47 a criminal with that kind of thinking you're used to 33:53 breaking rules and you think rules are only there to 33:57 keep you from doing things. 33:59 So when Kerry went out of his way to build that 34:02 relationship, I really did deep down start to trust him. 34:07 I think all of us want to trust people but were nervous 34:10 on how you're going to handle all this junk, because we 34:13 have been stepped on before and hurt in our own way. 34:17 Maybe a lot of its we've done our self but still this 34:20 is tender and this is all I have, so I'm not going to 34:23 give it to you if you are going to step on it like 34:25 everybody else has done. 34:26 So I really felt like I could start to go like this to Kerry. 34:29 One day I made a mistake and I stayed out when I 34:35 shouldn't have, the sad part about it is I would go 34:37 to church and afterwards me and my cousins would go 34:39 to the bar and drink beer and shoot pool and I did 34:43 that for a while. 34:44 Cheri: you're not supposed to be drinking, your not 34:45 not suppose to be staying out late. 34:46 So he came and looked at me and he said Max, 34:51 basically in short just said, if you do that again 34:56 it's going to be trouble for you. 34:58 He could have violated you right then! 35:02 He could've for sure, but I think or what I understand 35:06 now about rules is that they protect you. 35:09 So I knew there was a protecting that was going on 35:12 there, he wasn't trying to enforce some rule, 35:15 he was trying to protect what the Lord was calling 35:18 me to and I just really sensed that and I knew that. 35:21 And I think from then on is where, I was living with 35:25 my girlfriend who is my wife today. 35:27 He said you guys are living like you are married, 35:30 you need to make a decision. 35:32 My wife looked at him, like are you crazy? 35:34 You don't tell us what to do and I don't even know you. 35:39 I love that, that's hysterical to me. 35:43 But you know what it brought us to a place where we 35:47 knew that something had to happen, we needed to make 35:50 a decision and I fasted and prayed for 3 days and knew 35:55 that she was my bride. 35:56 11 months we stayed abstinent and didn't touch each other 36:01 and for the last 4 months we didn't even kiss. 36:04 I remembered her hand, just a touch of 36:09 her hand just moved me. 36:10 Pastor Mark said, Max in this day and believe it 36:17 or not on our marriage, Kerry and a few other 36:20 ushers were carrying guns, because we had a family 36:22 from California and we didn't know that and my wife 36:25 is like in the room, saying you're so pretty. 36:30 Kerry is like, ok, you guys got your guns, 36:32 okay listen now listen, this is how it's going to go down. 36:35 But it was very innocent for my wife and I. 36:40 The pastor said you may now kiss the bride. 36:43 Cheri: even going to that point where all the sudden 36:45 absence and the courting and all those kind of things, 36:48 you had never done that in your life. 36:50 That kind of innocents had never been a part of your 36:52 life in for me there is a joy in that this little kid 36:56 gets to feel what it feels like to be innocent 36:59 and have it be good. 37:01 Oh man I love it. 37:03 I was kissing her all over our honeymoon the Lord 37:05 blessed us to be able to go to Jamaica on our 37:06 honeymoon and I kept kissing her on the cheek, 37:08 and she said it's okay to kiss me on the lips now. 37:13 I want to say Max we are going to take a break 37:18 and come right back. 37:19 But I want to say I love you and God bless you in 37:22 your recovery, and how God is going to use you. 37:25 I can't even wait to see all of that, but it is 37:28 fun to know that even the most hardened heart, 37:31 God says I can soften that. 37:34 I see in your eyes when you talk about your past, 37:38 and this is what I fell in love with when you 37:40 initially talk about your past, and there are tears 37:42 that come up even thinking about who you were 37:45 - you just related to us, I can see the pain 37:47 in relating at times. 37:49 And I just love you and God bless you. 37:51 Ok, we are going to be right back. 37:54 I think I'm going to bring Max back because I want him to say 37:57 a few things before we end this program, so stay with us. |
Revised 2014-12-17