Participants: Cheri Peters (Host), Rich Kollenberg, Susan Kollenberg,
Series Code: CLR
Program Code: CLR000051B
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00:13 Welcome back!
00:14 Incredible, incredible testimony and how we can 00:20 literally get so far out there that it's not even, 00:24 I don't even think that we are acting human. 00:27 Our bodies are trashed, our minds are trashed, 00:30 body organs I'm sure are starting to shut down 00:34 with you guys. 00:35 And physically did you have any major crisis, 00:39 at that point were you in crisis in any way yet, 00:42 or that you knew of? 00:43 Susan: well the last time that I was arrested, 00:45 I had to turn myself into jail. 00:46 My hair was falling out, my teeth were falling out, 00:49 I had scabs everywhere and I was about 45 pounds 00:52 lighter that what I am today. 00:53 Cheri: wow,45 pounds... Susan: correct! 00:57 Cheri: because I was just thinking like Oh man, 01:00 that is a lot of pounds. 01:01 Susan: it is, it is. 01:03 So you can really tell, I probably look about 10 or 20 01:09 years younger than when I used to when it was using. 01:12 Cheri: it is absolutely amazing the damage. 01:16 Rich: we have had a lot of mouth work done, 01:18 this is a whole new front grill. 01:20 It's too funny, because you know we first come we are 01:23 a mess, our face is rotted, our teeth are falling out 01:25 and all that kind of stuff, and God just blesses us. 01:28 Susan: He does, He does! 01:30 Rich: He dumped a chunk of change into her mouth too. 01:32 You have to do those kinds of things once you get clean 01:37 and sober, those are the things that you have to start 01:39 taking care of, the things that you never... 01:41 Cheri: you know I love when you say you have to start 01:43 taking care of, I didn't even know that. 01:45 The person that brought me to Christ, Vegan, 01:47 vegetarian Adventist woman I thought it was going 01:51 to kill me to even stay at her house. 01:52 But her husband was a dentist and they literally 01:54 looked at my teeth and said sadly that I think that 01:58 your face has rotted, your jaw has rotted. 02:01 There is so much infection in that, that there is 02:03 no way you can keep your teeth. 02:04 I remember just crying, I'm 23 years old. 02:08 The stuff that I have done in my life has caused me 02:11 to be at this place and they decided they were going 02:15 to save my teeth, scrape jaw bones, fix things and all 02:18 that kind of stuff. 02:19 I'm thinking that God sets people in our lives that 02:22 will walk us into health even we don't have insurance, 02:25 we don't even know what needs to be fixed. 02:27 You are saying Susan, the woman at prison just said, 02:32 what is it that you keep doing this. 02:35 Susan: why do you keep doing this to yourself? 02:36 I said I don't know why I keep doing this, all I know 02:39 is that from the time that I can remember that I got up 02:44 and use drugs before went to bed I used them. 02:46 That was just my lifestyle, that is all I ever knew. 02:49 She say can I pray with you and I said, sure whatever. 02:51 She grabbed my hands and she prayed for me, 02:55 and I don't remember what she said, all I know is 02:58 that from that point on I have never had the 03:00 obsession to use drugs again. 03:01 Cheri: isn't that amazing! 03:02 Susan: gone immediately! 03:04 Cheri: and we don't do that, we don't step into 03:06 someone's life, and 03:07 I want to beg people if you're listening, if you're 03:09 the Café, if you're out there and you are listening. 03:10 If you feel that somebody has given you the privilege to pray 03:14 for them, pray with everything in you because... 03:18 Susan: it made a huge difference in my life. 03:20 So I started doing everything opposite, because God 03:23 put it in my heart you have to do everything opposite 03:26 of what you've done so far in your life. 03:27 So I went to AA meetings, NA meetings, I went to church, 03:31 I went to the school inside the jail. 03:33 I did everything I could and talked to my boyfriend 03:37 and said, you know what? 03:39 I'm done! I'm all done! 03:42 Cheri: When, because your not in jail, your 03:43 not in prison so what did you think when she says 03:45 she is done? 03:46 Rich: I tried to convince her, you know I'll continue 03:49 to use drugs and you'll never know. 03:50 She didn't buy that, and of course I couldn't 03:54 see really what was going on and she says no 03:57 I can't see you anymore. 03:59 Susan: because, I knew I was going to die if 04:01 I went out and I used drugs again. 04:03 This is my last opportunity to live and at that point 04:07 I wanted to live, so everything had to change. 04:10 I was taught everything has to change. 04:12 Cheri: when God, I love the Bible, you know for some 04:15 people that haven't opened up the word of God yet, 04:17 I just beg them to open up the word of God because 04:20 there is a point where God says, I set before you 04:23 life and death, choose life. 04:25 For some of us that is so, it's like you look at that 04:29 and the concept is even huge, choose life, it is my 04:32 choice, and you're saying I'm making it. 04:35 If by telling you I'm sorry, I love you and you've 04:40 been in my life a long time but you cannot stay 04:43 here if you don't want to get clean. 04:44 Rich: yeah and then I took an inventory and that's 04:47 when inventory hit me. 04:48 I started looking back at the instances we had talked 04:51 about previously, you know how my life had been a 04:54 speedboat going through a 5 mile an hour zone, 04:57 leaving a wake of destruction. 04:58 The damage that I had done, not necessarily by 05:03 literally doing damage, but damage by abandonment to people. 05:08 You know you don't go see your parents at how much that 05:10 hurts them, or your sisters, or what not. 05:13 Just being a social ameba causes harm to other people 05:17 and you don't even realize it. 05:18 So this inventory is taking place and I'm thinking, 05:22 man I've had it all wrong. 05:24 And God said, you know what you've have, you have 05:26 had it wrong for 41 years... 05:28 Cheri: so did you hear the Holy Spirit, Ah, man I love that. 05:32 Rich: yeah, you've done it, you get it wrong now you 05:34 got to try it My way Rich, your way hasn't worked. 05:37 This is what your best thinking got you. 05:40 And what is really amazing to me is that you start 05:44 hearing the God of heaven, as soon as you are ready, 05:49 as soon as you can, the God of heaven just speaks directly 05:51 to you, not audible voice, but you know it's Him. 05:54 Rich: you know, and you know what's going on in your 05:56 life, and you know at that point in time you have to 05:59 make a decision. 06:00 He says, you can use drugs one more day you're going 06:04 to die, this is it, it's come down to this. 06:06 You look back on your life and you say I know it has 06:10 come down to this. 06:11 When you make that decision and you start telling 06:15 friends, I'm not going to use drugs anymore, 06:19 well of course naturally they say, oh yeah, right! 06:22 But you know in your heart that you have changed, 06:25 you're going to turn around. 06:26 You do not know how you are going to do it. 06:27 I will call her up and I say I don't know how, 06:31 I don't know what to do, and she'd say just pray 06:33 and God will help you. 06:34 So for 3 months I prayed a 3 word prayer, God help me! 06:37 Just God help me, and He was there for me. 06:40 Cheri: so you know it doesn't have to be complicated, 06:44 the prayer doesn't have to be complicated. 06:46 Rich: no, I can remember lying face down on my bed 06:48 screaming at the top of my lungs for God to help me that 06:50 last time, because I didn't know what I was going to do. 06:53 I do know how I was going to do it, all I know that 06:55 everything I had done up to that point was wrong. 06:57 Cheri: can I say something, and I don't want to say 07:00 this to convict anyone, well that's a lie, 07:03 I'm working on being honest I want it to convict 07:06 every one of you. 07:07 Sometimes if we don't look good enough, that people 07:12 don't want to take the time with us. 07:14 And I imagine you guys didn't look very good during 07:18 this stage, and so sometimes because nobody else is 07:21 taking the time, nobody else has the hope that we're 07:24 starting to develop in your heart, nobody else has the 07:27 confidence in recovery like God has for us. 07:30 You are doing this on your own. 07:31 Rich: yeah I don't know if you could get it in your 07:35 mind's eye 2 drug addicts now living in a shack that 07:39 have decided to give their life to God. 07:41 Cheri: I can! 07:43 Rich: and now how they would fumble along in their 07:46 life making these simple decisions that would be so 07:50 very difficult for them to make. 07:51 Susan: well the decisions where things that normal people 07:53 do on a daily basis. 07:54 Cheri: you got out of jail. 07:55 Susan: I got out of jail and told him that's it no more. 07:58 Cheri: you live in poverty... Susan: correct! 08:01 Because my mom was quite the enabler and so we 08:06 didn't pay bills or have driver license or insurance 08:09 or do any of the things that we should have been 08:12 doing our whole adulthood. 08:14 He had ran away from IRS and so was in a lot of debt. 08:19 Rich: I was in trouble with the IRS and moving every 2 08:23 years somewhere to avoid. 08:26 Susan: we were great runners, not marathon runners. 08:29 Cheri: so now God has got a hold of you, 08:30 you are realizing that I have to stay away from drugs, 08:33 I have to step away from that. 08:34 Were you successful, I mean did you slip, 08:38 did you relapse, did you? 08:39 Susan and Rich: no, neither one of us! 08:41 Rich: from the moment that I cried out to God, 08:43 He lifted the obsession for me to use drugs also and 08:47 that is when you realize this is it. 08:51 This is going to be different, I don't know how it's 08:54 going to happen, but it's going to be different. 08:56 Susan: and what God told us was I want you to search 08:58 for Me just as hard as you searched for your drugs. 09:01 That is going to be the key for you to stay alive 09:04 and to be clean and sober. 09:06 Cheri: you know I think that for most of us is huge 09:11 because we'll search out why were we like this. 09:14 Why did I get this way, and God says you know what, 09:16 health is more than not doing drugs. 09:19 It's finding out who I Am, who you are, what the world 09:23 looks like outside of these chemical dependencies, 09:26 outside of these addictions. 09:27 That is huge, so I would imagine that you were 09:32 searching in every single way you could. 09:35 Susan: and with the answers started coming from a 09:37 lot of different directions, we met a lot of people 09:39 coming in studying with us. 09:40 We were watching television and listen to the radio, 09:42 what ever we could to find who God truly was. 09:45 Cheri: so you were initially not watching 09:48 Christian television, and tell us about that 09:50 because I love this part. 09:51 Rich: well we were watching, we had this little 09:54 black-and-white 13 inch television. 09:56 One day I was convicted, I said Susan, we can't be 10:00 watching this garbage on TV anymore. 10:02 This has got to go, it is part of changing, because 10:06 of the violence and whatnot, it just wasn't right. 10:09 So I was flipping with the channels and we got 3ABN. 10:14 It was Pastor Doug Batchelor on there and he was 10:18 talking, hey come here and look at this guy. 10:21 What he was saying started to make sense and it was 10:26 interesting because we would go to NA meetings, and 10:29 there's another preacher on the radio that we would 10:31 listen to, and he was saying different things then 10:34 was happening on 3ABN. 10:36 So every time that we would get in the car we would 10:39 listen to this radio and then we'd say, well let's 10:42 see what 3ABN has to say about it. 10:44 So we would go back and we listen and one of evangelists 10:47 would be on there, you know Kenneth Cox, or one of those 10:50 guys and it would always get answered. 10:52 But it always answered what made sense, 10:54 it made perfect sense. 10:56 Cheri: and take you back to the Bible, this is 10:57 where the Bible says this. 10:59 Susan: You have to realize Rich was a class valedictorian, 11:02 but he could read at the end of his addiction. 11:04 Rich: yeah I had smoked my brain so she was reading 11:08 the Bible, so it was so important for us to have 11:10 somebody there to put the text up on the screen and 11:15 then interpreted it, and bounce it back with another text. 11:17 Then you say okay now things are starting to come 11:19 together a little bit. 11:20 I can understand this and it was so helpful. 11:24 Cheri: can you remember when you began to 11:30 feel alive, joy, happiness. 11:33 Rich: I remember one night we were laying in bed 11:36 giggling, for no reason. 11:38 Remember that, I don't know she remembers that, 11:41 but I just started laughing, and then she started 11:44 laughing and we couldn't stop laughing for about 11:46 45 minutes to an hour. 11:49 That was the first time I think that I had really 11:53 laughed, I mean you know when you're drunk... 11:56 Cheri: smoking some weed. 11:59 Rich: whatever, you are laughing but it's not a real 12:02 joy, I mean it's just another medication to crack 12:06 jokes or what ever. 12:08 Is just another way of medicating yourself because 12:10 you don't want to look at reality so make 12:12 everything funny and it's not real either. 12:14 So I could remember that joy that I was actually 12:18 free from something. 12:19 Cheri: when I want to talk to any kind of an addict, 12:22 I just want to assure them that that day is coming, 12:25 where all of a sudden you'll laugh out loud and you'll 12:29 like being in your own skin, and you'll all of 12:31 a sudden say you know God, How did You do this? 12:33 Rich: yeah, yeah you turn around and sometimes it's in 12:37 reflection, you look at something that you used to 12:40 do it no longer do and say wow, how did that happen? 12:45 Rich: how did He do that? 12:46 Susan: and for me it's just being able to be 12:49 okay with who I am, and being able to accept my past for 12:54 what it was and to see how God sees me, and to be okay. 12:59 Cheri: you know do you feel that you have to go back 13:03 and understand every event? 13:04 Susan: no, I don't. 13:05 Cheri: because you know some people do and some people 13:08 need to at times, but I say look at the face of God 13:12 because we really have been given a new heart and a new 13:16 mind and I want to understand that one not my old one. 13:19 Susan: you know I'm almost come to the point where I 13:22 don't even know who that person is anymore. 13:24 It's that big of a difference. 13:26 You know God has changed me so much. 13:28 It's that big of a difference. 13:31 Cheri: what does your folks say? 13:32 Susan: you know, both of my parents have passed away 13:35 recently, but they weren't too sure. 13:38 They were happy that I was clean and sober, but then 13:40 we changed so much that we didn't do the things that 13:43 they used to do. 13:44 You know I wasn't smoking, I wasn't drinking, I wasn't 13:46 going to the casinos, I wasn't watching the TV. 13:49 So it was different for them to accept. 13:53 Cheri: so they wanted you somewhere in the middle where 13:56 you could do that but not get lost in your addictions. 13:58 Susan: exactly! 13:59 Cheri: and for an addict you can't do that. 14:00 Rich: no! Cheri: we have to be healthy. 14:04 Rich: yeah and a lot of times we have to go to that 14:06 extreme for our own protection, because we know if we 14:08 try to bend it half way it is not going to work. 14:12 Cheri: can you talk about what has been, not only 14:17 for us at the Café, but for anybody listening, 14:19 what has really been some of the key steps, 14:23 or the key things in your recovery. 14:25 The things that you say, you know what! 14:27 Pay attention to this. 14:28 Rich: you know one of the main things as I think back 14:32 now and when someone would ask me a question when 14:35 they are struggling with cigarette smoking, or what not. 14:38 I always reflect back on my life and I start here and say, 14:42 okay I came to God and cried out to God, right? 14:45 God lifted the obsession for me to use drugs. 14:48 About a year later, He tapped me on the shoulder and 14:52 says, Rich you know you are calling yourself a 14:54 Christian, it's time that you quit smoking. 14:56 Cheri: it took me forever to quit smoking. 14:58 Rich: okay so you see what I'm saying, okay so then 14:59 I quit smoking, but... 15:01 Cheri: and I get it from everywhere. 15:02 Rich: that's for sure. 15:03 Cheri: I smelled like cigarettes all the time, 15:05 I sprayed perfume all over me, I was like God take 15:08 this one from me, and He never did it easy 15:11 like the first part. 15:12 Like heroin He did easy, smoking and He said, I just 15:15 want you to feel how difficult it is for addictions. 15:17 Rich: the things we do, things we do 15:19 to hide our addictions. 15:20 So after that, after the smoking stopped about 15:23 a year goes by and once again I keep this little 15:25 tap on the shoulder, and you're not talking very well, 15:29 but you're not speaking quite right, 15:30 but you're giving your testimony, 15:31 but a lot of trash is coming out of your mouth. 15:33 I think you need to clean your mouth up... 15:35 Cheri: are you reading my mail, He tells the that too! 15:40 Rich: so all this is happening, right? 15:42 Yeah, okay, well that was a struggle but we got through it 15:47 and then of course a little while longer it goes 15:49 on and I think it's time you get baptized. 15:53 In a little while longer, what the point I'm trying to make 15:56 is at what point was I God's child? 16:00 It was all the way through, so your original 16:04 question I think dealt with what do you tell somebody 16:07 in those situations, when they are struggling and 16:11 their trying to deal with things. 16:15 Well you have to, I get enjoyment from looking back 16:18 and saying God was always with me. 16:19 I was always His child. 16:21 Cheri: so it sounds like what you're saying, 16:23 is trust the process. 16:25 Rich: exactly! 16:26 Cheri: where you may have God really on you right here, 16:30 He may leave the smoking for 2 or 3 years 16:33 because He's dealing with this. 16:34 Not that He wants your lungs to be trashed for that long, 16:36 but this right here is important. 16:38 And with me after 20 something years of recovery, 16:41 God says, You know Cheri, I want to work on your lying, 16:43 and I'm thinking what! 16:45 And I'm shocked and it is really funny to me that an 16:49 addict would be shocked with that but I'm shocked and 16:51 thinking you mean exaggerating, He's says, we call that lying, 16:54 but I think it's amazing that He says, I will work on 16:59 one thing at a time and some of these things to an 17:02 outsider may not seem important at all. 17:05 They may say the smoking is more important then this 17:08 person learning that their loved and God said, oh no, 17:11 this person needs to know their loved. 17:13 The smoking will be easier. 17:15 Rich: Maybe the smoking is the manifestation of why, the way 17:19 they feel, you have to fix the first part, before the 17:22 manifestation can go way. 17:24 Cheri: exactly, I'm going to open up for questions. 17:26 I know there is people in the cafe that are dying to 17:29 ask you some things. 17:30 Were going to start here with Pastor Ken. 17:32 I'm Pastor Ken, and by the way I have a question 17:35 because in my past I relate a lot to both of you 17:39 in the fact that I was on Meth for 25 plus years. 17:42 I know the thing that I got out of it was such a high, 17:47 such an adrenaline rush, and such a powerful power. 17:51 And getting off of it in your recovery, my question is, 17:56 what have you replace that with? 17:58 You can't just, Meth to me is so powerful you 18:01 can't just stop doing it. 18:04 Something has to replace that, some kind of energy, 18:07 so for both of you what is that? 18:10 Rich: well like she was saying, and this is something 18:14 we both agreed on and it is why I think there is a 18:17 success story here is because God put it in both of 18:21 our hearts that we had to find the real deal. 18:23 We had to find Him, we had to search for Him and then 18:27 once we began to find Him we needed share about Him. 18:31 About what's been going on in our lives. 18:34 How He changed our lives. 18:35 How He's helped us and He's always there for us, 18:38 and He's always been there for us. 18:39 So it's been one constant search for the 18:42 true character of God. 18:44 When we found the real God of the Bible, 18:45 that's what did it. 18:47 Cheri: what I love is when somebody says, that sense of 18:51 power, it is always an illusion of power with the drugs. 18:55 When you come into a relationship with Christ, 18:58 when you come into that and realize the significance 19:01 of who God is and the power of that. 19:04 The significance of who you are in Christ and feel that 19:07 for the first time you are going to be laying in bed 19:10 laughing in out loud. 19:11 Rich: yeah, and you actually feel, I fit in, 19:14 I fit into the human family now. 19:16 Susan: and I think also the power was being able to go 19:19 and tell people exactly what God had done in our lives. 19:22 And to be happy about it, when I tell people I'm a 19:25 3- time felony they are, just their jaw drops, 19:27 but it is incredible how God can take you where 19:30 you were and change you completely. 19:32 Cheri: when I look at the church, and I know for 19:35 some churches, it's especially little addicts, 19:38 they don't want little addicts up there giving their 19:40 testimony, do you know what I mean? 19:41 But we need to, at any stage in our recovery we 19:45 need to be able to talk to somebody and say out loud, 19:48 isn't God amazing. 19:49 I remember reading one time in the Bible and I was 19:52 reading about Mary Magdalene and the demoniac. 19:55 I'm thinking when I get to heaven I'm having lunch 19:57 with those guys and saying, isn't it cool that we 20:00 are like right here, and we belong here. 20:03 It's amazing! 20:05 I'm going to find out if there's any more questions, 20:07 Angela you had a question. 20:09 Yes I do have a question. 20:11 I would like to know, this is a family question by 20:13 the way, I would like to know you do have any children 20:16 together, or from a previous relationship? 20:18 Rich: you know we kind of got together and talked 20:23 about it, we couldn't take care of ourselves. 20:27 So we thought, we agreed we wouldn't have children. 20:31 We got married at what age, I think I was 42... 20:35 Susan: I was 35, and we were barely able to take care 20:40 of ourselves, so neither of us have any children 20:42 from a previous marriage. 20:44 I wanted to, but we just got to the point where we 20:47 could barely hang on ourselves. 20:49 Rich: we had depression going on, I remembered for 20:52 the first 2 years she sat and stared into space. 20:55 And cried every day, every day and after that happened, 21:01 I went through the same kind of metamorphosis. 21:04 So we found out that we had to get on a regiment of 21:08 exercise, and the proper food, that is why the health 21:11 message was so appealing to us. 21:13 Cheri: I want you to stay there for a while because 21:17 for a lot of us, I mean coming into this church, one 21:20 of the things that blesses us more than anything is 21:23 when somebody says, here have a glass of water. 21:27 You know, have a cantaloupe, do something and not 21:30 realizing that the nuro-chemical repair that happens 21:33 with just being out in the sun, learning how to 21:35 breathe and eating right. 21:37 Rich: yeah learning how to do all those things, 21:38 of course we have to be taught to do that. 21:41 I know if I want to get depressed all I have to do is 21:45 stop eating flax seeds, stop exercising, and start going 21:49 to bed at weird times and getting up at weird times. 21:52 3, 4, 5, 6 days I will be a mess. 21:56 Susan: and for me it was just drinking water, 21:59 It still is just drinking water. 22:01 It's just something I never did and so it's a hard 22:04 thing to keep my body hydrated. 22:06 Cheri: so you learn a lot about taking care of yourself 22:10 as you stepped into your relationship with God. 22:13 Not only who God is, which is amazing, but who you are, 22:18 how your body was created, how to take care of it. 22:21 Rich: right, and socially too, we never had any social 22:24 skills, it took us 4 or 5 years before we would invite 22:28 somebody over for dinner. 22:29 Cheri: I would introduce people like, Hi, my name is 22:32 Cheri, the first suicide attempt I had was when 22:33 I was 8 years old. 22:35 And they would look at me like, alright. 22:37 But we don't know how to do any of that. 22:40 Rich: we don't know how to make small talk and have 22:43 somebody over and eat at talk about normal things. 22:45 Cheri: so it was 5 years before you invited somebody over? 22:47 Rich: yeah, after we were married. 22:49 Cheri: and did you just decide after 5 years, 22:50 I'm going to have some of the over? 22:51 Rich: know the guy forced his way, he didn't force 22:54 his way, he's a wonderful Pastor, young Pastor that 22:56 we really hit it off with. 22:57 He took great care of us and he invited himself over, 23:00 he said you know I'm going to come over for lunch, 23:03 and we said okay. 23:05 We got all excited, and we still had sheets hanging 23:08 on the windows, no furniture, but it worked out well 23:12 and now Susan does a real good job at entertaining 23:15 people at our home now. 23:16 Cheri: God has blessed you with that. 23:18 Susan: yes He has. 23:20 Cheri: one thing that I know about recovery is 23:22 that as God gets us to the point where we can stand up, 23:25 He says now let me show you what your natural gifting 23:28 are because we don't know what they are, we don't know 23:31 anything but how to get some good dope. 23:34 Rich: the funny thing, God I think has a sense of humor 23:37 in regards to the fact that when we started going to 23:41 church I was falling asleep all the time. 23:43 So the Pastor there said, you need to teach Sabbath school. 23:47 Okay, and they made her in charge of health ministries. 23:52 So here is a guy... 23:53 Susan: it was a church of like 8 people. 23:54 Rich: not many people but still here's 2 addicts, 23:57 one guy can't read, now he's teaching Sabbath school. 24:00 Someone that has damaged their body all their life is 24:02 now in charge of health ministries. 24:04 Cheri: you know I wish we had a ton of time but we 24:08 don't, and I know that you God has accepted you 24:11 into Ministry where you are not only working with 24:13 addicts trying to educate the church. 24:15 Trying to get people to look at health things. 24:17 Working for Amazing Facts, I mean the story actually 24:21 unfolds in an incredible way. 24:23 Would you ever consider being on the program again? 24:26 Rich: oh sure, by all means. 24:28 Cheri: thank you so much for paying attention to God, 24:32 for being here, for sharing with us who you are and 24:35 what God has done in your life. 24:36 And thank you for taking time to fight for your 24:39 recovery every day doing the right thing. 24:41 Rich and Susan: thank you so much! 24:42 We are, I'm going to have a break, stay with us. 24:45 I want to kind of bring this whole thing to a close, 24:48 because there was a lot that was said today. 24:50 There was a lot that I want you to think about. 24:53 If you are stuck in addiction I want you to just 24:56 have the courage to just say, like Rich was saying, 24:59 God help me. 25:01 And you can say that for as long as you need 25:02 to say that, and God says, it doesn't have to 25:04 be more complicated. 25:05 I will pay attention every time you say it. 25:08 We will be right back, stay with us! |
Revised 2014-12-17