Participants: Cheri Peters (Host), Barb Wise, Rick Wise
Series Code: CLR
Program Code: CLR000055B
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00:13 Welcome back!
00:14 This is exciting, it's exciting to introduce you to 00:17 Barbara and later on Rick and to let you guys do 00:20 the presentation that you do all over the world for us. 00:24 I am thrilled, I have seen it before and was blessed by it. 00:27 I know that you are going to bless them. 00:29 I'm going to be over here praying for you the whole time. 00:31 - Thank you! Thank you! 00:32 You know when you have a physical pain, a doctor, 00:36 He will often look at a healthy person's body just to 00:39 try to help him understand what is causing you the pain. 00:42 Today I will be sharing my personal story, 00:45 but before I start telling my story, I'm going to use these 00:49 boxes just to set up a demonstration and give us a 00:52 picture of how a healthy person would learn about different 00:56 kinds of love, and different kinds of relationships. 00:59 Then I'm going to use the box as I tell my story to help 01:02 you understand the pain in my story a little bit better. 01:05 When a little person comes into the world, 01:08 one of the first relationships a little person has 01:10 is normally with their parents. 01:12 Parents are there to provide things like food and 01:15 clothes and diapers and shelter. 01:18 There are little babies in Romanian orphanages. 01:20 The babies has their food and their clothes and blankets, 01:23 but they didn't have enough people there to actually 01:25 interact with the babies and give them tender loving care. 01:28 The babies started to die. 01:31 When they looked into it what they found out is the babies 01:33 brains were actually shrinking, and they called it 01:36 Failure to Thrive. 01:38 So what they have learned all around the world is that 01:40 humans were designed that we need tender loving care 01:43 even in order for our brains to grow properly. 01:46 So you can think of little babies really as 01:49 just little storage units for love. 01:51 They are just fill me up with love, I mean that 01:55 they just want to be filled with love, these little ones. 01:58 Then as a little person gets going and they become a 02:01 toddler, you think of toddlers ready to see explored the world. 02:06 That is what they are doing, 02:07 they are learning to talk and walk. 02:08 They are running around trying to get their fingers 02:10 into electrical outlets, they're trying to get cleaning 02:13 supplies from under the sink. 02:14 Mom has to chase them around and put boundaries around them. 02:16 They are also ready to start to learn so you start 02:20 buying them their books, and their toys. 02:21 Now do most little toddlers like to share their toys? 02:25 No, generally not, once in a while you might need one or 02:27 two that will, but generally you need to teach toddlers 02:30 to share their toys with friends and then brothers 02:32 and sisters possibly. 02:34 So that is the next relationship that a healthy person 02:36 learns about, is brotherly, sisterly love, friendship 02:41 love and so that is the next kind of developmental love 02:45 type thing that a person learns about. 02:46 They also still need the support of parents, 02:48 they still need that. 02:50 The food, the clothes, the shelter that support and love. 02:53 Then as the person continues to grow they become a teenager. 02:56 I talk to young people across the country and when I ask 02:59 young people what they need they are quick to tell me 03:03 things like cell phones, iPods, and music, and cars 03:07 and foods, but they also I start getting deeper answers. 03:11 I'd like to get things like more privacy, 03:13 or independence, and friends. 03:15 Friends are very important for a young person right now. 03:18 Generally girls are making deeper friendships with girls, 03:21 guys are making deeper friendships with guys, 03:23 but they are also starting to check each other out. 03:25 They are trying to figure out what does it mean to be 03:27 a godly woman, what is it mean to be a godly man? 03:29 What is it mean to, who am I? 03:33 What is my identity? 03:34 What does that look like? 03:35 They are starting to ask those questions, 03:37 so they have to be very careful when they start looking 03:40 at these romantic relationships that they don't over 03:42 romanticize that other person in what they can do for them 03:45 Also right now a father or a father figure's voice 03:49 is very important. 03:50 A father is generally there to be giving his 03:52 sons and daughters certain messages. 03:54 It looks a little different for guys and girls. 03:57 Generally for a daughter, a father is saying to her, 04:00 hey I am a here to protect you, I will take care of you, 04:03 I love you, you are beautiful. 04:05 For a son a father is there to say things like, 04:08 hey you've got what it takes, you are worthy of respect, 04:11 you can do it, you are adequate. 04:13 But when a father isn't there, or a father figure to give 04:16 us those messages we might start looking to romantic 04:19 relationships to try to get those messages 04:21 a little sooner than we should. 04:22 I'm going to call this romantic, objective love. 04:25 It is a normal part of development, still need the 04:27 support of friends, still need the support of parents and is 04:30 all that develops in a healthy way it prepares us as an 04:33 adult to give what I am going to call, unconditional love. 04:36 Agape love, the sacrificial kind of love that Jesus 04:40 Christ showed for us. 04:41 A love that thinks about what another person needs the most. 04:44 Now because of that when the University of Chicago, they were 04:48 doing studies about which groups of people were most 04:51 sexually satisfied, they were looking at people who 04:54 were living together, people who were just dating, 04:56 people who were married. 04:58 They did a survey and all these questions from all 05:00 different angles and at the end of all their surveys, 05:02 what they realized was that people who reported being the 05:05 most sexually satisfied over and over were those people 05:07 who were married. 05:08 Because if you think about it, you have two people who 05:10 are truly committed to thinking about what each person 05:13 needs the most, and I know we have seen marriages were 05:16 that is not the case, but in a marriage where that is the case, 05:19 both people truly get the best just as God planned it to be. 05:23 When they wake up in the morning they don't have to worry. 05:27 They don't have to worry now that this person possibly 05:30 give me a sexually transmitted disease? 05:32 Is this person just going to leave me and break up with me? 05:35 And if you get pregnant is okay because of all that 05:38 unconditional love ready to flow down and start the 05:40 pyramid for someone else's life. 05:42 I am the oldest of four children, 05:45 I have two sisters and one brother. 05:47 When I was little in my home we had these little Bible 05:51 story books, I don't know if you remember Golden Arch books? 05:54 One of the ones I had was the story of a lost little lamb. 05:57 It was my favorite. 05:58 The story goes like this. 05:59 There was a shepherd and he had a hundred sheep in a pen. 06:03 And one day one of the little lamb gets out and he is 06:05 playing around and he's having a good time, 06:07 but the book would scare me. 06:09 Because in the very middle of the book was this page, 06:11 it was at night, and the page was all black except it had the 06:14 eyes of the little lamb wide open in fear. 06:18 All around the lamb were these big yellow Wolf eyes 06:22 ready to devour the little lamb, and it would scare me. 06:26 But I can always read the book, because when I turned 06:29 the page the next page picture would show the shepherd 06:32 reaching down and pulling the little lamb out of the pit. 06:35 And that was my view of God when I was little, but 06:39 somehow as I started growing my view of God started to change. 06:42 I start to think that God would only love me if I was perfect. 06:46 How do you know when your perfect anyway? 06:49 So I was always trying to be perfect for God. 06:52 I was also trying to be perfect in school and get the 06:54 A's, the A+ and when I was twelve years old there was an 06:58 adult male in my life who started to molest me. 07:01 My parents ended up getting divorced shortly after that 07:05 started to happen and we moved to a different state, 07:07 so that ended the abuse. 07:08 But at the time of my parents divorce what I found out 07:11 was my father was leaving my mom, and us four kids, 07:14 for another woman. 07:16 As we continued through the divorce I found out that my 07:19 dad actually been unfaithful many times. 07:21 Well if you saw me on the outside without my dad there, 07:24 I would seem just fine. 07:25 I was doing really good in school, I was still performing 07:28 for God and if you hung out with me I seemed very happy. 07:30 But my little demonstration here with the blocks, 07:33 what kind of love on the bottom did we say came from, 07:36 parents right? 07:37 Well one of my parents just got taken away. 07:43 On the outside everything looked okay for me, 07:46 but on the inside that's really how it felt for me. 07:49 And sometimes the pain for me was so real that 07:51 physically I can actually feel the pain. 07:53 It wasn't until I was older that I saw some healthier 07:56 families, but I started to realize my dad he was supposed 07:59 to be there to do certain things. 08:00 My daddy was supposed to be there to help provide for me. 08:03 He was supposed to be there to help affirm me. 08:05 He was supposed to be there to help protect me. 08:08 And he was supposed be there to give me 08:10 some spiritual leadership. 08:12 But I did know any of that. 08:13 All I knew is that something big was missing. 08:16 Like many girls when their dad isn't present, 08:19 and a dad might be in the home, he might clicking on the 08:22 computer, clicking on the remote, but not be present. 08:24 Or you might be there and don't have the words to be present. 08:28 Well without my father present what happened is I just 08:32 started to crave male attention. 08:34 If there was a guy around, I wanted his attention on me. 08:37 I started to evaluate my relationships with guys. 08:40 I start thinking what kind do I want? 08:42 Do I eventually want marriage? 08:43 Is it going to be worth it? 08:44 So I started looking at the marriages around me 08:47 and you know what I saw? 08:48 I just saw more couples fighting, I saw more divorce, 08:52 and I even saw more unfaithfulness. 08:55 I thought, you know what I don't think a good marriage 08:57 is possible, I don't think it's possible. 08:59 After seeing everything my mom just went through I would 09:02 rather be single the rest of my life than go through all that. 09:04 So I decided to just become self-sufficient, 09:06 emotionally, and financially. 09:08 For me that meant going to college and get the scholarships 09:10 I worked very hard to get good grades, I worked hard to 09:13 gain positions of leadership and it all paid off. 09:15 I ended up getting a Grant scholarship to one of the 09:18 major Universities in Denver. 09:19 Well I get there and now my focus isn't on my grades anymore 09:22 Do you know what my focuses is on? 09:23 Guys, right? 09:25 But now we are talking men. 09:27 We are talking hundreds of available men. 09:29 I would look out my dorm room window, these guys are just 09:31 running everywhere. 09:32 Even though I'm doubting the whole marriage thing I'm 09:34 thinking I'm going to do something about my craving 09:36 for male attention. 09:37 But I'm also still thinking I am not going to be used or 09:40 cheated on like my mom. 09:41 I will be in control of every relationship. 09:43 I thought I had really high standards, 09:45 but when I look back if somebody wanted to date me, 09:47 and I was available, I would date them. 09:49 It didn't matter to me if they had no faith. 09:52 It didn't matter if they had a drinking problem, or a 09:54 drug problem because I would tell myself I can just fix him 09:57 I would just fix him, but really what I wanted to fix, 10:00 was all this. 10:03 I also didn't do something else. 10:05 I thought I was on all this control, but never thought 10:07 about controlling sexual boundaries. 10:09 I would just get into these relationships with these guys 10:11 and start do things physically with them. 10:14 I never talked to any of these guys about their sexual past. 10:18 I mean I had no idea what these guys had done 10:21 physically before I met them. 10:22 When I started to drink, my sexual boundaries 10:25 they just deteriorated. 10:27 So finally my sophomore year I working late in the library 10:30 one night and this guy I was dating he was waiting 10:31 for me afterwards. 10:32 He lived in the apartment's and I live in the dorm and 10:34 he said, Barb why don't you come over to 10:35 the apartment tonight? 10:36 I knew I should go back to the dorm, but I just want 10:39 this guy to love me, I wanted him to tell me I was beautiful. 10:41 That he would take care of me and that he would protect me. 10:43 So I went back to his apartment, it became my first 10:47 experience with sexual intercourse, for me it was 10:49 horrible, it was awful, I just cried afterwards. 10:50 I was like take me home. 10:53 As I'm saying take me home I thought of how many times 10:56 that night I could have said take me home before it happened. 10:58 So I was getting in the car and as I was driving to a 11:00 place and was going up the stairs to the apartment. 11:02 That was the first time, a little bit later we broke up. 11:06 Well at the same time I was taking this philosophy class 11:10 And in this philosophy class they were saying that God and 11:12 religion were just man-made inventions to keep social order. 11:15 Well I was feeling so guilty from what just happened 11:17 that I thought yeah, there was no God. 11:18 We just invented Him, I don't need to feel guilty, 11:20 so I abandoned my faith. 11:21 I spent my next few years in school doubting whether God 11:25 or a healthy marriage could exist, and I did know those 11:28 things are so closely related. 11:30 I just kept thinking that dating was hard. 11:32 I would get this dating pattern and date a guy for about 11:34 three months while all the infatuation period was on and 11:37 we were all excited, and then start seeing things we didn't 11:39 like about each other and I start breaking up with him 11:40 before he could break of with me. 11:41 I graduate with honors, I don't know anything about 11:44 building a healthy relationship and I get out there. 11:47 Finally when I'm twenty five I have a friend of mine set 11:49 me down and start telling me about God's love for me. 11:52 And how God's love for me wasn't based on me being perfect. 11:56 It was unconditional love, it was a gift and I needed to 11:59 accept that gift. 12:01 I was so tired of trying to earn His love. 12:04 So I started reading Romans, Ephesians and I finally 12:08 started reading the Bible for myself. 12:11 I started realizing that He just loved me for the way I was. 12:16 I had to admit that I couldn't earn heaven and that I needed 12:22 Him as my personal Lord and Savior. 12:24 So I did accept Him as my personal Lord and Savior. 12:28 But did I change my dating right away? 12:34 I didn't, I didn't, do you know why? 12:41 Because I was still listening to all these lies that I 12:44 believed, had all these lies I was still operating off of. 12:47 Lies that it good marriage wasn't possible, that there 12:49 are no good guys out there waiting to have sex until 12:52 marriage, and even if there are, Barb you are 12:55 not going to find one. 12:57 With your past now, you don't deserve one. 12:59 Or I would believe the lies that it is okay if you date 13:03 someone that doesn't have any faith because eventually 13:07 this person will come into a personal relationship with Jesus 13:10 It is okay if you are dating him and pushing your 13:12 physical boundaries, God will understand because 13:15 eventually this person will come to know Jesus 13:17 and that's okay. 13:18 So I would get in these relationships were I still was 13:22 not following God's plan for a healthy 13:25 marriage and relationship. 13:26 But finally after having sex with six guys I was feeling 13:29 really depressed, my self-esteem was down and I couldn't 13:32 be transparent with God. 13:34 I felt empty, that is the best word I can describe it as. 13:37 I felt so empty inside, I kept wondering what is wrong 13:41 with me, and finally I thought you know what I really do 13:45 want somebody who is going to be committed to me. 13:47 Will love me and stand by my side no matter what. 13:50 I started realizing, even though I was doubting marriage. 13:52 I did want this I just didn't know how to get there. 13:55 So I start looking again at marriages around me. 13:57 This time I was a different group, have people who have 14:00 Christ is the center of their marriage. 14:02 So I started asking them, OK help me understand I am 14:05 looking at these marriages and see happily married couples. 14:07 So help me understand what makes a good husband, 14:10 what makes a good wife? 14:11 What would I be looking for in a man? 14:13 Who do I try to become as a woman? 14:15 That is when I started to understand that dating is more 14:17 about becoming the right person then finding the right person. 14:20 I also started to realize that the relationship between 14:24 a man and woman is a picture in a marriage. 14:27 The relationship between God and His Church, 14:30 and He calls His Church's bride. 14:32 The point being our relationship with one spouse is a 14:36 picture to the entire world of our relationship with one God. 14:40 I also started to understand there were some real pain from 14:44 my dad being gone, there are no perfect families, 14:45 there are no perfect moms there are no perfect dad's. 14:48 When you become a mom or dad you will not be perfect. 14:51 But I had to go ahead and that there were some real pain 14:54 for my dad being gone and I had to start grieving that pain. 14:57 and letting God help me to forgive my father. 15:00 Asking God, the Father, to give me those messages 15:03 that I longed to hear. 15:04 beautiful, that I would be protected, that He loved me. 15:07 For a guy I know it is different a man a guy needs to 15:10 get from God, a man that is 15:13 worthy of respect, he's got what it takes, he's adequate. 15:17 So I started turning to God and ask God for forgiveness 15:20 over my sexual past and I just started over. 15:22 I mean I had done things with my body but I decided 15:25 to make new decisions that I wasn't going to have 15:27 sex again until I got married. 15:29 It was just starting over, making new decisions to start 15:32 protecting my future marriage, and my future kids. 15:35 So finally when I was twenty seven years old I met the 15:39 man of my dreams at a Christian singles group. 15:41 Then I knew what kind of guy I needed. 15:42 I knew I was looking for a guy that would help protect 15:44 me, provide for me, affirm me an offer spiritual leadership. 15:48 This guy could do it he truly had God first. 15:50 He wasn't going to make me first, he wasn't going to 15:52 make his career first, he was in the make money first. 15:55 Now this guy when he was younger he had gotten involved 15:58 and drinking and pornography. 15:59 He wasn't raised in a Christian home, but he became a 16:01 Christian his first day of college and got in with a 16:04 group of Christian mentors and they taught him the value 16:07 of setting boundaries and protecting his future family. 16:10 This guy he wanted a strong marriage. 16:13 He was tired of seeing all the broken marriages and 16:16 he really wanted his wife to respect him and love him. 16:18 He knew in order to get her respect and love, 16:21 that he needed to be faithful, and faithfulness 16:24 takes self-control. 16:25 So he started working on the self-control 16:27 before he was married. 16:28 Since he had been involved in pornography he was very 16:31 careful to guard his eyes because they're so 16:33 much coming at him. 16:34 He got into accountability with others and he had to 16:37 keep reminding himself, in Christ, he was still a man 16:40 worthy of honor and respect so that the enemy didn't 16:44 weaken him and bring him down. 16:46 He didn't go to parties where there were drugs and 16:48 drinking that would take him out of control. 16:50 When he started dating a girl he would have a 16:52 conversation with her about sexual boundaries. 16:55 He did not do it because he thought he was so great, 16:58 he would set up the physical sexual boundaries because 17:01 he knew he was so normal, he knew that if his body gotten 17:04 certain situations how his body would respond. 17:07 So he did it to protect everybody, 17:08 he had the heart of a protector. 17:09 So when I met this guy he really honored me. 17:13 That is one of the things that attracted me to him, 17:16 and like you said on one of our first dates he told me 17:18 he's a virgin, twenty seven years old, he's a virgin and 17:21 waiting until he gets married to have sex. 17:23 Well by now I think this is awesome but I sure don't say 17:27 anything because I have my sexual past. 17:30 I'm thinking what is this guy going to think of me when 17:33 he hears about my past, will he still like me? 17:35 So I'm waiting for the right time, we are definitely headed 17:37 towards marriage, so I got with a friend and prayed. 17:39 I went to this guy and told him about my sexual past, 17:42 and when I told him honestly he was disappointed. 17:46 Because he knew I had actually bonded with those other 17:48 men, and if we got married I would be taking sexual 17:51 memories of other men into our marriage bed. 17:53 That can cause problems, but he said Barb I see who you are. 17:58 He said I know that God has offered you His forgiveness 18:03 and I just want to offer you my forgiveness. 18:06 He said I am not so concerned with your perfection as 18:10 much as I am in your direction, and he said I see your 18:13 direction and I love you and want to keep going on 18:17 with this relationship. 18:18 I was like Woo Hoo, the hard parts down right I've got 18:23 this great guy and am heading toward marriage 18:25 just like I wanted. 18:26 My relationship with God, I'm ecstatic, I'm so excited. 18:29 I'm thinking about us all the time, and as I kept 18:31 thinking about it I'm thinking this guy is a virgin 18:33 and I wasn't and 18:35 I had never been tested for all the sexually transmitted 18:37 diseases and I thought I would go get tested and put my 18:40 past behind me and I won't have to worry about it anymore. 18:43 So I went into this anonymous testing center, I had to 18:46 wait two weeks to get the results. 18:47 I was not worried, and I go back after the two weeks. 18:50 I'm sitting in the lobby and they had these little home 18:52 decorating magazines and I am flipping through them just 18:54 thinking about how I would decorate when I get married. 18:56 The counselor calls me and looks at me and says 19:01 your HIV test, it came back positive. 19:13 I just stood there and thinking this cannot be me, right? 19:18 This kind of thing happens to other people, it can't be me, 19:21 I'm only twenty seven years old, I'm in love, and I want 19:25 to get married so how can this be me? 19:30 So I'm trying to figure it out, so I started thinking 19:34 okay maybe there is some big mistake somewhere, right? 19:37 There's just some big mistake somehow, that's what I asked 19:41 the counselor, could there just be a big mistake? 19:43 He said we will do a retest, I say great can 19:45 I find out tomorrow. 19:46 He said no, it would take a week. 19:47 I said a week I have to wait another week? 19:50 Yes this was 1993 and it would take a week to get the results. 19:53 So he took out a needle into more blood and we get up 19:56 and I think we are leaving, but instead he takes me 19:59 into another room. 20:01 When we get into this room there is a woman in there and 20:04 she says I am from the Colorado State health Department. 20:07 This disease is so dangerous the only way we can keep 20:10 this disease from spreading is to get anyone who might 20:13 have been exposed, we need to get them all tested. 20:16 She said, we need you to get the names of anyone 20:19 who might be exposed. 20:20 I am in shock and know very little bit about HIV and AIDS. 20:23 Now this woman she wants me to tell her my whole sexual 20:27 history with names. 20:28 She says, it's anonymous, we don't know your name 20:31 and we call them to be tested, but we won't tell 20:34 them your name. 20:35 So I said okay and I gave her the six names. 20:41 I drive home, all the way home I am in shock, I'm numb. 20:46 But by the time I got home my thoughts were loud and clear. 20:53 Basically Barb your life is over, 20:57 because everyone is going to reject you. 20:59 The man you are wanting to marry, your family, your 21:03 friends, coworkers, church members and honestly most 21:06 people in the world because this was 1993 as I said. 21:09 And at that time AIDS was viewed as leprosy. 21:13 I thought if anyone touched me they would get AIDS, 21:17 so I thought no one could ever touch me again. 21:19 I just pictured myself covered from head to toe in 21:22 sores, real thin, weak, dying alone on a mattresses 21:25 in an empty room all 21:26 by myself from the things that I have been hearing. 21:30 For the first time, for the first time I faced the fact 21:34 that going outside of God's plans for sex within the 21:38 protective boundaries of marriage. 21:40 It wasn't just a walk in the park called dating is hard, 21:45 but there was a real spiritual battle going on. 21:49 A spiritual battle to destroy so much of 21:52 what God had planned for me. 21:54 I started to realize that my doorway wasn't just there 21:58 for my own pleasure, my sexuality. 22:00 It wasn't there for my own pleasure, it was actually a 22:03 doorway for so much of what God wanted to share with me, 22:05 and so much what I could share back with Him. 22:07 And I laid there that night and the enemy of my soul was 22:14 in my face saying, Barb it is too late for you. 22:18 It's too late, you didn't listen. 22:22 You didn't listen! 22:24 I was in terror, I had this sense of terror and I was 22:29 running to all these identities that I had created to 22:35 give myself a sense of accomplishment. 22:38 I had created this perfect career woman, or the perfect 22:42 daughter, perfect teacher in church, all these things that 22:45 I had done and then kept picturing the news of the HIV 22:49 hitting all those different identities. 22:51 And as I had pictured the news of HIV hitting I saw them all 22:55 start to crumble, and I was so scared I just laid on the floor 23:00 that night, because it was the only thing that felt 23:03 solid enough, it was floor. 23:04 I'm laying on the floor in the dark with my eyes wide open 23:10 in fear, and the big yellow Wolf eyes of everything that was 23:15 going to devour me were all around me. 23:17 And even though I felt too guilty to talk to God, 23:22 I couldn't even talk to Him, I just felt too guilty. 23:27 I knew that He would not let me go, 23:33 I knew that He would reach down and with everything 23:38 crumbling, He would still hold onto me. 23:45 That night it was very important to me was that it 23:47 wasn't some God who loved me, it wasn't just some God, 23:50 it meant something to me that it was Jesus Christ. 23:54 Because I knew He had actually died and conquered death, 23:59 and risen, and He was now offering me His life. 24:03 I still had the hope of eternal life. 24:07 I had that hope, if the whole world rejected me I had 24:12 the hope of eternal life. 24:15 I spent all night crying. 24:17 In the morning I am still crying and remembered the guy 24:20 am in love with, I'm supposed to have dinner with 24:22 him that night. 24:24 Now I wasn't going to say anything to this guy until I 24:27 found out the retest results, but I couldn't stop crying. 24:30 I thought there is no way I can hide this from him. 24:33 He was a really good guy and deserved to know, but I knew 24:35 when I told him he would leave me and I would be alone. 24:38 So we drove to the park and I wouldn't look at him, 24:40 because if I look at him I will start crying and I won't 24:42 be able to stop. 24:43 But finally I get out there I said, remember 24:44 when I told you I wasn't a virgin? 24:46 Well I went to get tested for STDs and the HIV part 24:49 came back positive. 24:50 I did a silent scream and he goes to hug me but I pushed 24:53 him away, no don't touch me. 24:55 Because I still didn't understand about HIV and AIDS. 24:58 But he said no, it is okay, he said I was trained at 25:01 work about HIV and AIDS, it is okay I can touch you. 25:04 So he just held me. 25:05 We were crying, and I thought okay I'm just going to get 25:08 this over with and I won't make him end the relationship 25:12 because it is not fair to him, I'll do it. 25:13 So I said I know this is going to change our relationship. 25:17 He said I want to show you something and he gently 25:23 pushed me back - I gently pushed her back and I told 25:29 Barb that I had committed in my heart to asking you to marry me. 25:35 I don't know what the future holds, but I love you and I'm 25:39 and sticking by that commitment and nothing you do or say 25:44 is going to change my mind. 25:45 That sure was not the reaction I expected. 25:53 This guy his name is Rick and I don't know if you can 25:58 imagine just the night before I truly believed that every 26:04 single thing in my live was lost. 26:06 Everything, but the next day here is Rick and he commits 26:12 his life and his love to me, that's when I realized that 26:18 maybe this kind of love was possible. 26:21 Maybe this kind of love did exist. 26:24 That's when I realized that Rick, the first time he 26:29 pictured for me God's unconditional, unfathomable, 26:34 love in a real way. 26:35 And he pictured a man that was committed to God and 26:38 could be committed to me. 26:39 That's what I also realized that Rick didn't love me for 26:45 sex, we weren't having sex, Rick truly loved me for me. 26:50 Well then I kind of got this sick feeling inside. 26:53 It was like, why did I give up my hope that 26:57 he was out there. 26:58 Why hadn't I just waited for him? 27:00 - when Barb told me, I was devastated, I was in shock, 27:06 but I had remembered that she had shared with me, 27:09 a few weeks before, that she wasn't a virgin. 27:12 We had talked about that and I had forgiven her. 27:14 So my decision wasn't can I forgive Barb now that there's 27:18 real consequences, the decision I had to make was could 27:21 I love this wonderful godly woman 27:24 through terminal illness? 27:26 I knew that I wanted to, 27:28 I knew if I relied on Him that I could. 27:30 While we were sitting in the car I remembered something that 27:33 I had heard a few weeks before, that if your hope isn't 27:36 big enough for any eventuality, for anything that could 27:39 possibly happen, your hope isn't big enough. 27:43 I told Barb our hope is Jesus Christ, 27:46 and He is big enough for this. 27:48 - so we are waiting for the retest results. 27:51 We are hoping and praying that they come back negative, 27:55 but when they came back they were positive. 27:58 So they said you will need to see a doctor because 28:00 you will need medicine. 28:01 So I went and saw my doctor, now my doctor didn't 28:04 believe it, my doctor didn't believe it, you know why? 28:08 I wasn't sick, there wasn't anything wrong with me 28:11 so I got little hope. 28:12 So yeah maybe it's just a big mix-up at the lab, but they do 28:15 a retest, in another test and Rick couldn't get off of work, 28:17 so I back to get the results and am sitting there alone. 28:20 In came the doctor and he was literally shaking, he said Barb 28:23 they were right, you do have AIDS. 28:26 He said is what we do a test when a person's body gets an 28:30 infection they have these special cells in their body 28:34 they call T-helper cells and a cry for help. 28:36 They call these fighter cells to fight off the infections. 28:40 What HIV does, it comes in and destroys your T-helper cells. 28:44 The next time your body gets an infection now there is 28:46 nothing there to cry for help so nothing comes to fight and 28:49 infections can just take over your body. 28:51 He says that's why people with AIDS we die of cancer, 28:55 pneumonia, tuberculosis, different big infections. 28:58 He said a healthy person, when we look at how many T- 29:00 helper cells a healthy person has they have between 29:03 800 and 1200. 29:05 We did your T-helper cell count and yours came back at 29:08 147, under 200 is considered AIDS. 29:13 He said you probably have two weeks to a year to live. 29:17 Because again this was in 1993, and at that time they only 29:20 had one drug to fight AIDS and it was working very well. 29:23 He said what is happening is that most people, when they 29:26 had that low T-cell count they will get something big 29:29 like pneumonia and will be trying to fight it and pick up 29:31 a second infection, staff or strep and the 29:33 two infections usually kill them. 29:35 I stood there in his office and kept thinking this isn't 29:39 me, right? This isn't me. 29:42 This cannot be me. 29:47 I'm at home and I just called Rick it was worse than 29:49 we were thinking. 29:50 I started going through the grieving process, the anger, 29:53 the bargaining, depression, denial come at me slinky 29:55 over and over. 29:58 Rick would come over to comfort me and I kept crying and 30:00 getting his shirts covered in mascara right here. 30:03 - I started to wear darker shirts. 30:05 - at night before Rick would leave he'd do something 30:09 I thought that was strange. 30:10 He would start giving me all these Bible verses, 30:12 he stand there and give me Bible verses and I would be like, 30:15 what is he doing? 30:16 But the next day when I would get to work, I would have 30:19 all these thoughts, Barb you're going to die real soon. 30:23 Guess what? You deserve it! You deserve it! 30:28 The only way I can stand up was to remember the verses 30:31 that Rick had given me the night before. 30:33 - well I was overwhelmed and I knew I didn't have the 30:36 words, the wisdom to give Barb to get through this. 30:40 So I use God's words, I used to verses like Isaiah 41:10 30:44 and it says "do not fear for I'm with you, 30:46 do not be dismayed 30:48 for I am your God, I will strengthen you and help you, 30:50 I will uphold you for my righteous right hand. " 30:53 Or 1 John 1:9 that says, "if we confess our sins he is 30:57 faithful and just to forgive us our sins and purify us 31:01 from all and righteousness. " 31:02 Or 2 Corinthians 5:17 that says, "therefore if anyone 31:06 is in Christ he is a new creation, the old is gone, 31:09 the new has come. " 31:11 - I really clung to the last verse about the HIV 31:14 being made new. 31:17 With HIV running through my body I felt so contaminated 31:21 and I kept thinking how can I be made new? 31:24 But Rick kept reminding me that no matter what sexual thing 31:27 we have done, no matter what hateful thing we've done, 31:30 no matter what addiction we have that God is always there. 31:32 If we turn around and ask His forgiveness, 31:33 He's always there ready to offer us a way to be new. 31:36 So I just clung on to that, I clung on to that. 31:41 We started to see a counselor, because this affected both 31:45 of us in every part of our lives, physically, 31:47 intellectually, emotionally, socially, spiritually, 31:50 and financially. 31:51 We're going to talk about just a few of the ways that 31:54 this has impacted our lives. 31:55 - I go see the counselor and the counselor says Barbara 31:59 there something you haven't done and I said okay, 32:01 what do I need to do? 32:02 He said will you need to tell your family. 32:04 I was like what? 32:07 He said yeah you should probably tell your family and I 32:09 got mad and said there was no way I was going to tell my 32:10 mom and dad, my sisters and brothers, I'm not bringing 32:12 this all into their life. 32:13 He is like no, you need to calm down, Barb really think 32:17 about what you want to do, do you want to wait until 32:20 you're dying and try to tell everybody this then? 32:23 Is that going to be fair to them? 32:24 I'm like no you are right, I guess I better tell them now. 32:28 So we did not know where they would all stand on the 32:30 issue of AIDS, they said don't tell them all together, it's 32:33 better if you tell them one-on- one, so that is what we did. 32:37 We called each one of them up and Rick go with me. 32:39 I just want you to know that everyone of my family 32:41 members as I told them they were devastated. 32:43 Especially my mom, believe me, believe me you never want 32:50 to have to tell your mom something like that. 32:52 But you know something, whatever I thought was this 32:56 perfect girl in here I was with all my dirt showing they 32:58 all still loved me, they all still loved me. 33:02 Rick would sit there and tell them, I love her and 33:05 I'm going to be there for her. 33:07 At a time when I sit there and think all I could think, 33:09 I was worthless, I'm worthless, I'm worthless. 33:12 Rick kept speaking the truth, no she still has value, 33:16 she still has value. 33:18 Now I remember any time we feel worthless God is always 33:22 by our side, saying you still have value. 33:26 You still have value. 33:29 - we had to tell my parents, Barb had only met them twice. 33:34 So she came to me and said Rick, I can't do that, I 33:37 cannot go talk to your parents about this, I am too 33:40 emotionally drained right now. 33:42 I said okay I will go talk to them myself, could you 33:45 just write a letter? 33:46 It took Barb over eight hours to write that letter. 33:49 - I couldn't figure out what to say, basically all I 33:52 could say was I was pretty stupid and your son 33:55 is pretty awesome. 33:56 Then the past boyfriends started calling up, because 33:59 they were notified by the state that they had been 34:02 exposed and needed to be tested, even though they 34:04 didn't tell these guys my name, they just got curious 34:07 and started to investigate their sexual past. 34:09 One of the guys calls me up and tells me he is newly 34:12 married and his wife is pregnant. 34:13 This guy was going nuts and wondering what he just did to 34:16 his new family and for the next two-week while they are 34:19 getting tested, I'm laying there every night going is this 34:22 guy give me the HIV possibly come or 34:24 did I give the guy HIV possibly? 34:26 Does the little baby have it? 34:28 But thankfully and with God's mercy, they came back negative. 34:32 But then Rick said Barb we need to sit down and go 34:35 through your past, not every detail but enough that we 34:38 didn't have to do this each time somebody called. 34:39 Because every time some it would call I would be sitting 34:41 there thinking is Rick going to leave me. 34:44 I mean it this guy hears one more detail, 34:46 won't he just be gone? 34:48 But Rick said Barb let's go over all the details because 34:53 I want you to know for sure, I want you to know for sure 34:57 that my love and my forgiveness are going to cover all 35:01 the details and you do not need to keep worrying that 35:04 I'm going to leave you, because I am not going to leave you. 35:08 Well we figured out I got HIV from the first guy, the 35:12 guy who had the apartment is a guy who had it when 35:16 I was 19 years old. 35:17 I didn't find out I was HIV positive till 9 years later. 35:20 You couldn't tell by looking at me that I was HIV positive, 35:23 can you tell now? 35:24 I couldn't tell that HIV was inside of me, 35:27 it was inside of me and I couldn't tell. 35:30 So those next five guys I didn't tell I was HIV positive, 35:33 now I wasn't lying because I didn't know, but every one 35:36 of those guys is taking a risk of contracting anything 35:38 that I might have contracted from someone else. 35:40 I just didn't realize that my sexual choices were going 35:43 to impact anyone except me and maybe the other person. 35:45 I didn't really think about it. 35:47 Well during this time Rick and I kept dating, and Rick 35:51 kept telling me he still wanted to get married. 35:53 I just kept asking are you nuts or crazy I mean they are 35:56 only given me a couple weeks, a couple months to live. 35:59 Are you sure? 36:02 - well we wanted to get as much advice as we could 36:06 so we asked doctors and counselors, Pastors 36:09 if we should get married. 36:11 Barb thought that all of them would say no, but to her 36:13 surprise everyone of them said yes, an HIV-positive 36:16 person can still get marriage but there will 36:19 be sexual restrictions. 36:20 So on October 9,1993 we did get married. 36:26 This last October we celebrated our 15th anniversary. 36:32 Yes we are so glad, we did not expect that to happen. 36:38 We were celebrating it at a romantic restaurant and just 36:42 looking at each other amazed because at the same time, 36:46 this will sound dramatic but it is true, at the same 36:49 time I was making all my wedding plans I was also making 36:52 all my own funeral plans. 36:53 When most people get married they can now have sex without 36:57 any worries, like God plans is to be, but every single 37:00 day Rick and I we have to consider the HIV, 37:02 every single day. 37:04 I just keep thinking why did I bring all of this in the 37:08 relationship, why didn't I just trust God. 37:09 Why didn't I listen to His voice? 37:11 Why did I try to take control of everything in my own power? 37:15 Well fourteen years later and you may be looking at 37:18 me thinking oh she looks okay and everything is good, 37:21 it's not that hard have an HIV and AIDS. 37:23 It has been a difficult road and we've had to give up 37:26 children, because they said there was a 1 in 4 chance that 37:29 I could pass on the HIV to a child. 37:32 Now they can get the mom and baby certain drugs in the 37:35 United States they can get the transmission under 1 percent. 37:37 But I would have to use some drugs that make me really 37:40 sick and I don't know how I will feel and to put a 37:43 little person through all that. 37:45 Also when you fight a disease and make use a high pile 37:50 of drugs called a cocktail, in the medical world right now 37:55 I am on a medical cocktail to help me fight this. 37:58 But the drugs have a lot of side effects, so I have 38:01 rashes, headaches, fever, it's hard to have the energy 38:04 to get through a full day. 38:05 I get blurred vision, in one set of drugs I was on in 38:09 the morning I would just feel like I had 38:11 a hangover every morning. 38:13 When I needed to drive to work, because if I lost my job 38:16 I lost my health insurance. 38:17 My drugs without health insurance are over 2000 dollars 38:20 a month, with health insurance is 2 to 300 hundred 38:23 dollars a month, so I needed my job. 38:24 I would drive to work and feel very sick until about 38:27 eleven thirty and then I would go home and 38:29 start it all over again. 38:30 I would think I do not want to do this anymore, this is 38:32 not how I want to live my life. 38:34 With that I think of how there are millions of children, 38:37 or thousands of men, women and little children all around 38:40 the world who die from AIDS every day because they don't 38:43 have medicine, I say Barb at least you are someone who 38:45 has medicine and you better take it with 38:47 a grateful heart. 38:48 So we kept the secret for about nine years and finally 38:51 on December of 2000 they came up with some new drugs 38:53 that I am on in my body is doing well with these drugs 38:55 so I was asked would I please tell the story to some 38:58 young people? 38:59 At first I didn't want to do it, but God said Barb that is 39:01 your pride, get it out of the way, 39:02 this is not about you, it's about My love for 39:04 these young people. 39:05 So I told my first youth group and it was the young people 39:07 that came up and said thank you, you should be telling 39:09 our friends and they invited me to the classrooms. 39:11 So were going around telling our story now over 800 times 39:16 to hundreds of thousands of people across the country 39:21 and in Europe. 39:22 It amazes me because that first night the enemy lied to 39:25 me and said there was nothing ahead of me but an empty 39:28 room and pain, but the truth was right around 39:32 the corner was Rick. 39:34 God has provided this marriage and love for us and 39:37 is given as opportunity to meet some of the most 39:40 fantastic people in the world. 39:42 And I hear stories because I hear young people all over 39:45 the world caught me and talk to me and 39:47 tell me their story and 39:48 I don't know what everybody gets blocks looks like, 39:51 but I can tell you that I honestly look people back and 39:54 tell them I have hope for you no matter what you stories are. 39:57 Because I realize the pain in people's lives are because 40:01 of all the lies we believe when our blocks are broken, 40:04 we have pain and we believe lies instead of the truth. 40:07 Well I want to let you know that God can restore. 40:10 He is in the business of restoring and reconciliation and 40:12 He can bring in the first row, He can bring back the 40:16 truth that we are valuable, that He knew before we were 40:19 born, who we were going to be, that He planned for us 40:22 to be created. 40:23 That we are valuable and worth being cared for. 40:27 That we can learn through the body of Christ fellowship and 40:31 friendship, what it is to be listened to, and cared for, 40:35 any given truth, and how we can be friends 40:37 for other people. 40:38 How we can be there to help them in their time of need 40:41 and handling communications and conflict solving. 40:43 And then the truth about our identity as godly men and 40:46 women, what does it mean to be a godly woman, what is 40:51 the truth about a godly man, whom am I that we can see 40:56 ourselves as God sees us. 40:58 That He delights in us as you were saying earlier, that His 41:03 delight is in us and He restores this part of our lives. 41:08 As we realize how valuable we are, then we are able to 41:13 understand the value of committed love really be an 41:17 agape love towards putting people in a place 41:20 where we commit to do loving actions for them. 41:23 Even though we might not feel like it, we do the actions, 41:27 and the actions creates the loving feelings. 41:29 That is really agape committed love, and that brings us 41:33 to committed love and marriage that allows us to have 41:36 children and start the whole cycle building 41:39 up pyramids with truth. 41:41 - oh man, I just have to say I love you guys. 41:47 Because I think about, we are going to go ahead and 41:51 break but I just want to say that as I'm listening to 41:55 you I'm watching that whole thing is that what trashed you 41:58 was what your belief of who you were, your father left 42:01 and all that stuff, and that you literally brought that 42:04 back into her life. 42:05 None of that was true and definitely God reinforced that. 42:09 We will be right back, and as you saw this presentation, 42:13 it is so important because we all have something that we 42:17 believe that has never been ours to believe. 42:19 It is never what God intended in our lives, and God 42:22 says you know as those blocks are put up, I just want 42:25 you to know that I can come in and just bring people 42:29 into your life that will just help you to restore 42:33 everything that was knocked down. 42:34 Man, I hope you were blessed by Barb and Rick's story. 42:39 I know that for me, it changed me. 42:43 It changed me that all of a sudden I realize, it 42:45 doesn't matter what I am holding on to. 42:48 What is hitting me is that God is faithful and I can 42:51 hold on to it in His love, and definitely in the love of 42:54 the people around us, and I am so glad I met this couple. 42:58 We will be right back! stay with us! |
Revised 2014-12-17