Participants: Cheri Peters (Host), Joanie McCulloch
Series Code: CLR
Program Code: CLR000109B
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00:14 Welcome back. You know when I'm talking about, before the break,
00:19 as far as this guy that had to deal with this kind of deep 00:22 seated fear that kind of drove him in his life. Again I have to 00:27 say it was so amazing to see that point of surrender, that 00:32 point of really understanding God and recovery and healing 00:37 and for that time just to be full of joy and happiness and 00:40 you know I don't have to carry this, and the burden's off and 00:43 all that kind of stuff. So I want to introduce to my friend 00:46 Joanie. Joanie for one I wanted to say I can't believe you're up 00:50 here. Me either. I've been here for 00:52 five seasons now and sitting down there I would think, well 00:56 this is enough. I don't need, I don't need to be up there and 01:00 and tell my story. Thank you for encouraging me to come and be up 01:04 here. When we first met, not the first 01:08 time we talked, but the first time we met I remember thinking 01:12 that I knew that there was something up. You know, I knew 01:16 that. I didn't know what it was. Like I was trying to figure out 01:21 I know that she has some social stuff or there's something going 01:25 on. There's maybe... I was even thinking autism or something 01:29 like, like an edge and I didn't know what to think. But I was 01:33 listening to you and I'm thinking out of everybody that 01:36 was in the room I knew that you really had to work at your life 01:42 more than most. And yet you did. And I fell in love with you 01:46 instantly. I just fell in love with you. I thought emotionally 01:50 that's how I felt some time and then I'm seeing that you had to 01:54 do a number of things in your life just to live, just to get a 01:57 house, get a job, all that kind of stuff and so I want you to 02:01 take us back throughout your life and talk about that; your 02:04 journey. And definitely we're going to get to the point where 02:07 God just released you of all that and what's happening in 02:11 your life now. Because it is amazing. 02:14 Okay. I was raised in the 50s. My parents were older, my father 02:18 was 43 and my mother was 37 when I was born and whenever 02:21 they went to school for a program or something, they 02:24 always thought they were my grandparents. I didn't know they 02:27 looked old till I started going to school. But we weren't raised 02:31 in a Christian home but it was a peaceful and nice home. I loved 02:35 my mother. I felt safe there. My father, I didn't like him and I 02:39 never really understood why. He was only the disciplinary person 02:43 and he was the breadwinner and that was just about all he did. 02:46 But there was no emotional attachment. I found out later 02:50 from a cousin it was because he wanted a boy. And you weren't. 02:54 Yeah, it was my sister and I and I was the youngest. I was a 02:59 pretty easy-going child, easy to raise, I think, and I just loved 03:04 my mom. I felt safe everywhere I went. 03:07 You know you told me one time that your mom had a hearing 03:11 problem. Yeah, yes, she became deaf when 03:13 she was 30. So she knew how to talk and she had a hearing 03:17 aid that made it so she could hear. But she'd be able to hear 03:20 if we were sitting here but if I was to turn my head she 03:24 wouldn't be able to hear and I needed to speak with just a calm 03:29 voice, nothing loud or too soft. But she couldn't hear a thing 03:33 without it. So I learned to talk very short and not long 03:38 sentences and I think I've carried that over into adult 03:44 life where I say bottom line and I'm not too wordy. 03:49 Then you told me one time you said, you know, I kind of talk 03:52 like a deaf person. My mother was my role model. 03:57 and in a social setting she hated to go to them because she 04:00 couldn't really hear when there was so much noise. She couldn't 04:03 hear what anybody was saying. It wasn't a pleasant time for 04:08 her. I think I act like that in a social setting. I'm really 04:11 quiet because that's what she did and she was definitely my 04:15 role model. She had a good sense of humor. I've never seen anyone 04:17 that has her sense of humor and I think I got a little bit 04:20 of that and I'm glad. 04:22 This is too fun. I know it sounds like every time you've 04:24 talked about your mom that you guys were so close. In school, 04:28 what was it like and talk a little bit about that. 04:33 When it was time to go to school I think about the second grade 04:39 I noticed that things were a little bit different. There were 04:43 groups. When you walk into the classroom on the left were the 04:48 smart kids and then in the middle were the medium kids and 04:52 over here were the dumb kids and I always seemed to be over here. 04:54 And after a while you get to notice the plus kids call you 04:57 dumb and then you become submissive. 04:59 But I love the fact that you really recognized that. Until 05:03 the second grade you really didn't pay attention to that. 05:06 You didn't notice that and all of a sudden that social 05:09 awareness happens. I didn't know I didn't know type 05:12 of thing. Every year first day of school I was over on the 05:18 smart side and I felt good. I had my folder already because 05:22 you have to get your paper and your folders and your tabs for 05:25 English, reading, spelling, all these little tabs and everything 05:29 was perfect and beautiful and, I'm going to be smart this year. 05:33 I would sit over on the smart side. Then by the end of the 05:38 week I was back over here on the dumb side. I think some kids 05:42 even said, You don't belong over here. Yes I do, because I knew I 05:46 was going to be smart this year. 05:47 Because you had all this stuff? 05:49 Yeah, everything was organized and this year was going to be 05:51 the year. You know I even saw that you 05:54 teared up with that. That pain is still a part of you at times; 05:58 that I've always tried to fight that my whole life. I don't want 06:02 to be on that side and I don't know how to get out of it. 06:05 And I knew that if I got a job out of high school that I would 06:09 have to have a diploma. So I even cheated my way through. 06:12 The teacher was sick for a week one time and I got all the 06:16 copies of the tests and I made sure that I didn't get A and B 06:19 because no way would I get that. So I would get enough so I would 06:22 pass. It was a history class that you absolutely had to pass. 06:26 So I really never deserved to get a diploma but I wanted to 06:28 get a job because I knew I could work in a cannery or something 06:31 like that. So you finished high school? 06:36 Yeah. Emotionally did you shut down in 06:41 high school. The high school I went to was 06:45 pretty mature. It was a continuation school but at the 06:49 same time it was a vocational school where they had 06:52 cosmetology and typewriter repair and secretarial work 06:56 and I signed up to do that but when I got there I didn't do it, 06:58 I just took regular classes. You could step outside on the steps 07:01 and smoke and the teachers were smoking too. It wasn't that 07:05 strict like other high schools. It was very unusual. I liked 07:10 that. I had started smoking and drinking when I was 13 and those 07:13 were the type of kids I hung around with. I didn't do drugs. 07:16 I think God just kept me from that because I have addictive 07:19 personality. I know that in your younger 07:24 years you were really good in sports so you survived with 07:27 sports. Yes and I was always one of the 07:31 top three picked for teams for kickball or baseball and 07:35 sometimes even was the captain and I knew who to pick, what 07:38 position for them to play and all that, yeah. So I did have an 07:41 advantage. I did have a time in school that it felt good. P. E. 07:45 was the best subject. Yeah because you were the kid; 07:47 if you were on their team we're going to win. So they picked you 07:52 for that. Now when you started drinking and smoking did you get 07:57 to relax about some of that stuff? 07:59 Yeah, I was shy, I was very shy. I'm not sure I mentioned to you 08:02 the other day I was wondering if maybe I didn't have the 08:05 academic issues would I be shy? You know, I'll never know that. 08:08 But I was shy. What was the question? 08:12 Just that when you started to drink and that kind of thing did 08:16 you... ... feel good. It brought me out 08:17 It made me the life of the party and people like me because I was 08:22 funny and I was relaxed. But then I would get to the point 08:25 where I would keep drinking and drinking and then I would become 08:29 obnoxious. I can't even imagine you 08:32 obnoxious. Now you talk about this shy thing. Because I think 08:37 that what you did with that shyness was genius to me and so 08:43 talk about that because you were not only shy but you were almost 08:47 crippling shy. Yeah. I wouldn't even write 08:50 checks anywhere. When I was married I hid behind my husband. 08:53 And he did all the talking. Wherever we went whatever we had 08:56 to do he had to do it all because I couldn't. And you know 08:59 when I was little and the phone would ring my mother couldn't 09:02 take the calls if she didn't know who they were and 09:04 I would never get it right. 09:05 My sister would always take the calls and she 09:08 was very good. She had a very good vocabulary, she was very 09:11 smart academically. I could never get the calls. I remember 09:15 when I was little I couldn't wait to be big and I could read 09:19 the paper and eat hot boiling food off the stove because 09:22 everybody would eat these hot foods, but I never could, I 09:24 still can't and I still don't read the paper. 09:28 So with the shy thing: You found out you're shy. You graduated 09:33 from high school and you decide to do something. You and a 09:37 girlfriend about being shy. Yeah, Pat Love and I, we 09:39 decided that we weren't going to be shy anymore. I already had 09:44 my children then. Because I found out in the Bible that fear 09:49 is a sin and shyness is a fear and so I didn't want to... 09:54 Before we go there can we find out how did God come in? 09:59 Oh yeah! Well my aunt and uncle that lived in Fresno they were 10:05 Adventist and my grandmother. My mother was raised an 10:08 Adventist in a very negative home. Parents split up. 10:10 Stepparents didn't want her so she didn't want anything to do 10:13 with God. But I think she may have even taught me the Lord's 10:16 Prayer. I'm not sure what my father's background was with 10:19 religion. They did send us to Sunday school. They had some 10:22 one pick us up and bring us home. They never went. So I had 10:24 a little background there. But when I went to Fresno to stay 10:27 with my aunt and uncle in the summertime for a month they were 10:30 Seventh-day Adventist and they went to their church there. 10:34 Stephen Bohr I think now is the pastor at that church. So I had 10:39 a lot of knowledge about the Bible and Sabbath keeping from 10:43 them. And I think probably because of their praying for me. 10:46 I don't know if my mother and father ever prayed for me but 10:49 my aunt and uncle and grandmother I know did and 10:51 that's probably why I found the Lord. But they got a hold of my 10:54 sister and took her to a camp meeting in Soquel, 10:58 California and she came back and she was on fire for the Lord. 11:01 So that kind of brought it into the family. Right. So when you 11:05 fell in love and... Not till later though. I was a 11:10 horrible sister to her. I wasn't going to let her be good. 11:14 But later after I had my children she started going back 11:17 to church. Then she encouraged me to go back to church. So I 11:21 started going. That was before I had children though. 11:24 Okay. So you started turning over to God. So now you and your 11:27 friend decide that... We're not going to be shy 11:30 anymore. We're going to have Tupperware parties, we're going 11:32 to have home interior parties, we're going to have people over 11:34 and do different things. So we did. 11:37 Do you know that was one thing that I thought when the first 11:40 time you told me that story is that I realize that I'm shy. 11:45 It's crippling. I know that I can't stay here and that I'm 11:49 going to systematically start doing things that shy 11:53 don't do. Exactly. And that's what I did. 11:55 I had this list of things: Don't go to college, don't take a 11:59 speech class, don't stand in front of people and speak, don't 12:03 write a check. You don't come to Celebrate Live in Recovery. 12:07 and get up in front of everybody because that just 12:10 doesn't happen. This is a miracle that I'm here I know. 12:13 I know that because I can't believe how calm I am right now. 12:17 So you did end up going back to school. Yeah. Did you have 12:21 to... because I know that the processing stuff is just you 12:24 taking information differently, all of that kind of stuff. 12:28 So did you have to get some... 12:30 I went to the counselor, okay, and I was telling him all this 12:33 issue with trouble in school and they said, Well maybe you 12:36 have a learning disability. So they sent me over there to the 12:39 learning disabled lab and Mary and Melissa were awesome. 12:41 They were just so positive and they taught me so many ways to 12:44 be positive and speak positive and they were like role models 12:47 to me and I watched how they spoke to the students. If you 12:50 turned in a paper they would show you what you got right 12:53 but they did come up to one time and she said, Now do you want us 12:58 to call on you in class? And I said, No, but do it. 13:03 Yeah because I'm trying to work on being shy. 13:05 One of the things they asked me, What is your goal in this class? 13:10 I said, Well when I go to church and after the sermon's over 13:14 I want to be able to talk about what it was or tell somebody 13:19 what it was about. I still can't now but that was the goal. 13:24 But I think I was there just to learn to be positive. I knew God 13:30 loved me and I loved the fact that he loved me. I couldn't 13:32 believe... Because I only felt my mom and my aunt and my 13:34 grandmother really loved me. 13:36 Because the school situation was painful, always trying to 13:40 fit in but you had those three people and God. 13:46 Yes. So I did go to college and some classes you can't take 13:50 because you have to be a certain grade level. In the test, I 13:54 turned out to be like an eighth grade level but there were still 13:57 classes that you could take. So I did take some classes, a 13:59 speech class and some English classes. 14:01 Did you ever get up and do a speech? 14:04 Yeah, I got an A in it. That was... 14:05 Do you remember what it was about? 14:07 One of them I talked about bed-wetting because my sons 14:11 wet the bed. Another one was about, and I thought it was very 14:14 good, the topic was about whether you should lower the 14:20 drinking to 18 and I had to write why they should, not 14:24 believing that you should even drink alcohol. I was very 14:29 convincing. So that's kind of amazing. 14:33 So you get through that and you ended up having to now even 14:38 pick your career; what am I going to do, what kind of 14:41 business, all of that kind of stuff. 14:42 As a shy person I knew I was never going to work with the 14:45 public, run a register or do any of that stuff. It would be a job 14:48 where I'd work behind the scenes and I did do that. But after 14:51 that, after I got divorced and I was going to school I wanted to 14:54 be a teacher so my goal always was to be home with my kids 14:58 because my role model was my mother. She was a stay-at-home 15:03 mom and that's what I knew how to do. But I didn't finish 15:07 school and I would end up working three jobs and trying to 15:11 make ends meet. You know you talked to me one 15:15 time, was it we were talking, and I know that you have your 15:19 own business now and I also know that you went over to an Asian 15:23 country to get some training, went to China. 15:26 I never would do that as a shy person. 15:28 This is not what somebody with a learning disability or a shy 15:31 person or somebody that has struggled like you necessarily 15:34 does. And I thought, Joanie, shut up, that is amazing. 15:38 So talk a little bit about that because I don't even know if you 15:42 realize how amazing that was. 15:44 I never thought that I would have my own business for one 15:46 thing. You know I was working in a health food store for years 15:48 where I learned so much and I was out front talking to 15:51 customers all the time. Forced yourself? 15:53 Yeah... to where I'm comfortable in that terrain. If it gets 15:57 outside of that I might not be so comfortable. But yeah, we 16:01 went to China; it was for 18 days. 16:05 For myofascial release? It was actually acupressure. 16:10 And so we learned some acupressure. Myofascial release 16:14 was a different teacher. Yeah, I really don't know what to say. 16:22 You bought a house, bought a rental. I mean you know what 16:26 I mean. There's all of this stuff that you have literally 16:32 accomplished in your life. I was amazed at the pain that you 16:38 came out of and the fact that you really allowed God to 16:43 systematically say okay now do this, do this and do this and 16:47 you just... I didn't see the steps till you 16:49 get to where you are. Then you can look back and see the steps. 16:53 Okay. Yeah. One thing I remember, I was going through 16:56 some pictures, because the kids were horrible to me, and I know 16:59 I did my part too with you're no good, you can't be on my 17:02 team or whatever. But it's pretty painful and it carries 17:05 over into your adult life. But I was going through pictures and 17:09 I saw these kids that I just hated so much because they were 17:12 so mean to me and the Holy Spirit just said 17:14 to forgive them. 17:16 And I did and that was huge to me, just to... 17:20 Looking at their faces saying I forgive you for every single 17:25 time you looked at me that way. That rage, that anger is pretty 17:29 intense. I was always afraid and still am 17:33 insecure about being around someone that is going to 17:36 belittle me. I don't like that and I'll avoid that I can. 17:41 I can almost see it coming. 17:43 Yeah. I know that when we first met you were afraid of that. 17:46 But you know, I pray that I never do that to you. 17:52 I don't think you ever have. I want to kiss you on the face. 17:58 Okay, but let's stay focused all right? 18:01 I want to go back when I met you. My cousin, Vicky, in Fresno 18:04 said she wanted to treat me to a women's retreat so we went 18:09 to Yosemite. Because I knew your name. I saw your name and I 18:14 your little blurbs, nothing long. I'm going, no I want to 18:17 see more and I even wrote your name down. I never do that. 18:21 Because I'm sitting in my comfortable spot and I don't 18:24 want to get up and find a pen and write. I went, Who is this 18:28 person. You know. And I wrote your name down. And Vicky 18:30 said Sheri Peters is the speaker I said, I'm coming. And you were 18:34 telling your story. I had never heard it all together, just 18:38 little bits and pieces. There were pretty graphic things that 18:42 you were saying. But then you said, I couldn't read, and you 18:46 were 23 years old. So then I started listening to you because 18:49 even though all the other stuff you were saying happened to you, 18:53 getting beat up, motorcycle gang the reading thing just really 18:56 caught my interest. Here you are 23 years old and you can't read. 18:59 Then you learn to read and you become a nurse. So now I'm back 19:02 to this folder; I'm going to be smart again because look what 19:05 she was able to be. But like you said the other day, I may be 19:08 like this till Jesus comes, but that's okay, that's all right. 19:11 But I knew that when we did meet is that I knew that 19:17 emotionally the things that I have struggled with you 19:22 struggled with the learning stuff. So it looked different 19:26 you know it was different in a lot of ways but it felt like me; 19:30 it was still the same battle, the struggle. You've struggled 19:34 your whole life just to be able to stand. You told me the other 19:38 day that sometimes even coming into a room the smart people are 19:41 over here talking 100 miles an hour and... 19:44 And you're academically smart. I knew that right away. 19:48 Can I write that down? Yeah. I'll get a pen. 19:52 You're a genius, I know that you're a genius. Oh stop! 19:54 Because I said to you, you are very smart and you get it from 19:57 your mom or dad and you knew you were smart. You said you got it 20:00 from your mom. My mom's really smart. 20:03 I've watched you, I've watched you listen to people talk and 20:07 you jump in. I wouldn't know how to jump in. 20:09 We became friends and it was really interesting because I 20:13 you really did, you won my heart You've been to my house, my 20:18 family loves you, I mean, we became friends. What I think was 20:23 really interesting during that time is I was studying for one 20:26 of the seasons and we were studying the baptism of the Holy 20:30 Spirit and all that and I thought, you know, Joanie you 20:33 got to, I think I said something stupid like you gotta study 20:37 this with me and you're like Ohhh. 20:39 I said, I probably won't read this book and I was handing it 20:41 back to you and I looked at and I said, Well I'll just read the 20:44 underlined stuff. And I looked at it and the whole thing was 20:47 like underlined. I underline a lot. 20:48 So I did read the whole thing. I even underlined some stuff 20:53 that I thought you should have underlined. 20:55 You were going to call me on that. It's like, she left this 20:58 out. But what I thought was amazing about that is that even 21:02 at the point that you took the book there was something that 21:07 you said one time to me was that you took a chance of telling me, 21:12 I don't get it. You can tell me that 100 times and I don't get 21:17 it. And you almost held your breath waiting for me to respond 21:22 Do you remember that? 21:24 I was angry. Input and imputed I forgot what the other ones 21:29 were. But you know what I hear the 21:32 fact that you were angry but you know what I saw which I 21:34 thought was incredible is that you took a risk of sharing that 21:38 with me. And I think for any of us in our recovery we really 21:42 have to take a risk of being able to tell somebody, You know 21:46 what, this is what I deal with and this is who I am and do you 21:50 still care about me? 21:52 I've been able to fake it because even at the health food 21:54 when I was talking to customers I could talk to them for 15 21:57 minutes and my body knows how to do the motions. 22:00 Even if you don't understand them? You're not even hearing 22:05 them. And I still even do it. 22:06 You do. I have to grab you by the throat when you do that. 22:09 Sometimes I grab you by the shirt and I want you... Okay 22:12 where are you at? 22:14 You're getting to see the shades go down. You said the word 22:18 presumptuous the other day. I was so all excited. I don't even 22:21 remember what you were saying but you said the word in a way 22:23 that caused me to understand it. Because I've tried to figure it 22:26 out and people would say to me, You can't be presumptuous. And I 22:29 go, I don't want to be, but I don't know what it means 22:32 Even telling me and telling me and telling me and looking it up 22:35 in the dictionary doesn't sink in. And I don't know why it 22:40 doesn't sink in. But I saw it in your face that 22:43 you got it. And even the joy that I got that. 22:45 I wasn't even listening to what you said after that. You were 22:48 still talking and I'm thinking, I think I got that. 22:52 Okay, so you remember what I'm talking about when we started 22:55 going to the things and you decided, I think that you were 22:59 going to through the books and the first one that you just got 23:03 through, I got through this. 23:05 Yeah, The Baptism of the Holy Spirit. And I got my own and I 23:08 underlined everything you had underlined in the same color 23:12 because sometimes you used a red pen, sometimes a 23:15 highlighter. And at times you called. At times we talked about 23:19 it. We talked about it every day on 23:20 the computer. From the time I e- mailed you after the retreat 23:23 I sent you something and you sent something back right away. 23:28 I'm going this can't be her, but it was and we sent something 23:33 every day until I met you. 23:34 What was amazing to me is, I'm going to ask you to explain. 23:40 Is that there was a point when we were going through the books 23:46 that God started to wake you up to some plans that he had for 23:50 your life and that I thought was the coolest thing because I 23:54 think that we think that if I'm not exactly like the next person 23:58 if society says that everybody's going to walk on this road 24:02 and if I can't walk on that road then my whole life is just going 24:07 be a struggle and God was waking you up to I have a plan for you 24:12 and not for everyone else, but for you and I love you and so 24:17 do you remember... Are you talking about when I was 24:21 trying to study all day in a book? 24:22 Yeah the start of that was... 24:26 I'm really ADD and sometimes I just can't stay focused, but 24:29 this Sunday morning I was bound and determined to get a certain 24:32 amount of reading done. But I kept getting distracted and 24:36 doing stuff and so, this is embarrassing to say but like 24:40 by 5:30 in the afternoon I was still trying to get this stuff 24:44 done. So finally I'm sitting there and reading and the Holy 24:47 Spirit said to me have an all night prayer meeting and fast 24:51 10 days prior. And I'm going what? 24:54 And we were studying about prayer. 24:56 Yeah, Yes. I don't read books cover to cover usually I'll read 25:01 the back chapter, skim through it and something will catch my 25:04 eye and I think God really puts my eye where it should be. 25:07 But that's a huge message: Have an all-night prayer meeting... 25:11 I never heard of it... and do a 10-day fast. Right. 25:14 So I got all excited. I call Dee and told her and she goes wow! 25:17 And then she didn't know what to say about it and so then I 25:19 called Charlotte and she goes Oh yeah, I've been to one. 25:21 I know all about it. Get a committee and we'll talk about 25:24 it and so I did. Within three weeks we had an all night 25:27 prayer meeting at my house and it was the most awesome bonding 25:30 time with the Lord and with my church family ever. 25:35 To me what was amazing about that, and I thought it was so 25:40 incredible is all of a sudden that your gifting, your 25:45 uniqueness God was waking up and it happened pretty fast. 25:49 Well maybe not because you spent all that time kind of building 25:53 up to this moment. But God just says thank you, now let's... 25:58 Because I always whenever I read something about prayer I don't 26:02 see anything in our church that we're doing this. I mean prayer 26:05 meeting I thought you know you go and you pray but you study a 26:10 book and then we pray for five minutes and that's okay. I'm not 26:14 saying that that's a bad thing. But I just have read that we 26:17 need to pray more. We don't pray enough and we still don't 26:21 pray enough even what we're doing. 26:22 This was three years ago. 26:24 So you had the all night prayer meeting. What was the committee 26:29 like and I want to know how you felt all of a sudden to be in a 26:34 committee? I know. Charlotte's really good 26:39 cause she kind of bosses me around a little bit and I 26:41 respect her and I love her. I don't mean to maybe use the word 26:45 boss; encourages me strongly. 26:48 She's type A, she moves like this, she works with her 26:53 husband who's a doctor, runs a business, stays the same, 26:57 she's type A and you've got these strong women that are 27:00 looking at you like okay, you want to do that let's do it. 27:03 Yeah and we did and we got people from church, all 27:06 different ages there, 85 to 18. 27:12 How did you guys decide to run the prayer meeting? 27:15 Charlotte said what we had to do was find people and they would 27:18 pick a topic and every hour someone had a topic and they 27:22 would pray about it. Some gave testimonies. So that's how it 27:26 went all night and then somebody made notes of who did what. 27:30 What did it feel like during that night? 27:31 I was up and down; I was excited It was incredible. Yeah. 27:36 Because you've been to one of the prayer meetings. 27:38 I want to ask you, how did it feel when you realized that God 27:42 is going to use you, that there was a plan for your life? 27:47 Well a year ago we were going to have a prayer meeting and 27:51 I was feeling a little insecure about it, I don't know why. 27:56 So I called the pastoral prayer department here at 3ABN and I 28:02 just prayed that whoever answered was who I was supposed 28:05 to have and I believe that whoever it was the God wanted me 28:07 to have that person. It happened to be Joe O'Brien. I told him a 28:11 little bit about my academic stuff and that I wasn't very 28:15 bright and now our church is doing these prayer meetings, so 28:18 I told him a little bit about them, but they're not all night 28:21 anymore. They're maybe till 10 o'clock at night and we decided 28:25 to do it during the awake hours. But I was just really feeling 28:31 insecure myself. There were all these smart people in our church 28:37 and you know... me? I've already run a few of them and people are 28:41 wanting them and when are we going to do it again? So I don't 28:45 know what my problem was that day. So I talked for a while and 28:49 he gave me some scriptures to encourage me. He said, You know 28:54 there's that person that has an education and a beautiful wife 28:58 who can cook everything perfect and all the kids look nice and 29:03 their educated and everything's good with them. But God's not 29:07 looking for them. He said, He's looking for you. I'd never heard 29:12 that before. What?! 29:14 I use the simple things of the world to confound the wise. 29:18 You know what I mean? That's powerful. He is looking for you. 29:22 I was so excited with that and I'd never heard of that before 29:26 and I was pretty emotional about it. I even think I got in front 29:29 of the church for the very first time. I've been in front of like 29:32 Sabbath school but never the church part of the church. 29:36 And I said that and then he also said that your church is not the 29:40 only one doing these prayer things; that he hears about it 29:43 all the time, and I'd never heard of it before. So God gave 29:45 me something. The Holy Spirit literally talked 29:48 to you and you knew it at that moment. You know what, I want 29:52 to ask you to explain a little bit to us about how the church 29:56 started to change with these prayer meetings. 29:59 We started getting programs. We have a couple that have a 30:04 burden for feeding the homeless. So I think it started out that 30:08 every other Sabbath that they would feed the homeless. But 30:11 other churches do it so they come once a month. And then 30:14 there was a Bible study on a Monday night and there was 30:17 another one on a Thursday night and there was another one. 30:20 People were getting closer together. 30:22 People were getting close together. 30:25 You guys were calling each other and praying for each other over 30:28 the phone during the week. 30:29 We had, yeah, we had during the 10 days of fast we had prayer 30:32 partners so we encouraged people to have prayer partners and they 30:35 still have prayer partners now because they liked it so much. 30:38 I have a number of them. 30:39 You know as I was watching God unfold all of that in your life 30:45 I was so proud of God. I was so proud of you. You know it is 30:50 almost like that we are held in bondage to the stuff that has 30:54 happened in our life until we finally say God can you use me? 30:59 Do you love me? I've asked him. You know I asked 31:01 him to use me somehow and I don't know what my gifts are. 31:04 You know I could ride a unicycle. You know, where's that 31:08 getting me. I was the fastest runner in the class one time. 31:12 Where's that going to get me and what kind of job will that get. 31:16 Yeah, he's using me and I love it and I want to be used more. 31:20 So now our church has made me prayer coordinator. We didn't 31:24 have one. Okay. I want you to say that 31:26 again, because that cracked me up. When you called me and said 31:31 Guess what? and you knew I was just going to scream. How fun is 31:35 that. So I want to hear every thing. How did they approach 31:39 you, what did you think? 31:41 What's that committee called when there's a group of people 31:45 call and they have to call to ask you what jobs... 31:47 Nominating committee. Nominating committee. Yeah they 31:49 called and asked me if I would be prayer coordinator and if 31:53 Dee would be my assistant. 31:57 She's usually the one in charge and they're saying I want you to 32:01 do that and... She does better at being in 32:04 charge. One of the all night prayer 32:09 vigils that you had at your place, I remember you guys were 32:13 fasting, having the prayer thing I live... How far is it from my 32:17 house? Six hundred miles. From my door 32:19 to your door it was 600 miles. 32:21 So I decide that I'm going to drive out and just join you guys 32:29 So Dannielle from Australia decides to Skype in. So you have 32:36 somebody from Australia, you have me coming in from Idaho and 32:42 then you have somebody scheduled every hour on the hour like you 32:48 said and we pray. Through the night one of the things, I 32:52 looked around and I was so proud of you that you allowed 32:56 God to stand you up in that way. But the Holy Spirit was so 33:00 present. That's what people say when 33:02 they've come to them. When I'd say are you going to come to the 33:05 prayer meeting... Ah, I can't pray that long. I don't want to 33:09 do that. And I get so crushed because I want them to feel 33:14 that. And someone came to the last one we had and they were 33:19 blessed by it, in tears by it. We did Steps to Christ, so it 33:23 was a weekend of prayer. So we did all 13 chapters of Steps to 33:27 Christ and each somebody had a chapter. 33:29 Is that when your grandson asked for special prayer? 33:34 No that was a different thing. 33:36 So did each chapter of Steps to Christ, and then would pray 33:41 over whatever that step was. So how many have you guys done? 33:46 Do you know. You know maybe 10. 33:48 So now what we're doing is every month we're having a miniature 33:52 prayer time so we're praying for the same thing at the same time. 33:57 Because there is power in numbers praying for the same 33:59 thing at the same time. That's the last one that my grandson 34:04 went to. Can you talk about that a little 34:07 bit? Maybe not the issue if you don't want to share the issue 34:13 but just the fact that he was there and kind of... 34:16 Yeah my grandson was there. It was going to be my last weekend 34:20 in my house and so I was going to spend time with my grandsons 34:24 and so I just had to have them with me. So I took them over 34:28 there and so my grandson, he's 11, and he saw what we were 34:32 doing and Dee said, You can fill out a prayer request and write 34:35 something on this card and put it in that basked. So after we 34:39 were all done he was in there watching a little bit and he was 34:42 actually supposed to be taking care of his little brother, my 34:46 other grandson that's four. So he came in and after it was over 34:50 he said can you help me fill this out. And I said, Okay. 34:53 So we filled it out and I said just put it in the basket over 34:57 there and it'll be prayed for. And he says, I want you guys to 35:02 pray like you were. We were doing conversational prayer 35:05 where it's not like this person prays and the next person. 35:08 It's just if a thought comes to someone, fine, they just say a 35:12 phrase or they agree with what someone had just said. And so I 35:15 called everybody in. We turned off the stove because we were 35:18 actually going to have a meal and they were all glad to do it. 35:22 So nine of us around us prayed for his request... 35:26 for about 15 to 20 minutes. Yeah. Just that topic. 35:31 Right. So it's incredible to watch how God is unfolding your 35:37 life. I want to go to an area that... and if you don't want to 35:42 go here just let me know, it's totally find. But I know that 35:47 you're living in a town where almost the entire town is going 35:52 bankrupt and you were going through the process of trying to 35:56 save your home and I remember you saying to me at one point 36:01 that people at the bank are asking me different things and 36:05 you're doing that kind of nodding your head and having no 36:09 idea what they're talking about and all that kind of stuff. 36:13 I saw you crash and kind of withdraw a little bit. I think 36:17 you even jumped into some bad behavior. You remember what I'm 36:20 talking about? Then it was a really tough time and I remember 36:25 one time just praying about it and God just said, Tell her to 36:29 tell them the truth. I don't understand what you're saying. 36:33 I have some good friends that helped me with all that paper 36:38 work. These were friends I prayed for. I prayed for a 36:42 friend on the same page with me and so I'm over at their house 36:46 one day and the Lord said, I not only gave you one friend, I gave 36:49 you three. And they have been amazing to me. But yeah, they've 36:53 been helping me with all the paper work, because I just space 36:57 out. So you had to start saying out 36:59 loud to someone, I don't get it. What did that feel like at first 37:03 Were you afraid? Did you feel like you were going to get 37:06 rejected? I wasn't. But yeah, I wasn't. 37:10 But talk about what it felt like. Because that's stopped 37:13 you for years. 37:17 There were some things probably I could have done that I didn't 37:20 because I don't understand. Vocabulary, I think, is an issue 37:22 So are long sentences. 37:26 Right. So to me the fact you started to say, You know what, 37:30 I don't understand that. Can you say it in a different way, can 37:35 you say that again, or can you help me? 37:36 When you said, Can you help me I thought that 37:39 I don't even know if that was easily formed in your mouth 37:43 Can you help me, to ask someone to help you with paperwork or 37:48 with the house or with moving. 37:52 Are you talking about Policia or the other girl? Okay. 37:56 Or even the person at the bank. When you said you know I need 37:58 help with this. I told them and they understood. 38:01 Then they had to get permission to talk to Policia on the phone 38:04 and all that stuff. So how did that feel? 38:08 That could be expensive if you really don't know how to do all 38:12 that stuff and to pay someone. People just won't do anything 38:16 to do what I've been able to do. Because they don't understand 38:20 paperwork even though it's explained to them. Because if 38:23 you don't get it after they explained it, people that don't 38:26 understand it get impatient and so you don't want to go there. 38:29 You don't even want to even start because you know what's 38:31 going to happen. So you withdraw and shut down? 38:33 Or you don't do it. 38:36 What would you like to say about that. If you could say to 38:41 anybody, how could they be more real and help you out with that? 38:46 I don't know that they can. The only thing I could do is pray 38:51 and I know the devil sets me up everywhere I go. What I've 38:55 been learning to say is that God died for them too and he 38:58 loves them and like Jesus said on the cross, Forgive them 39:02 father for they don't know what they do. Because they don't. 39:05 I don't know what their day is like. I don't know what their 39:09 life is like. So I've come to that point now that that's 39:13 probably what happens. 39:15 So you don't expect someone to slow down. No. But you know in 39:19 our friendship you do stop me and say... 39:21 No because I'm not afraid to. I don't think I ever was afraid to 39:25 because you got it even though you didn't have that academic 39:29 issue you understand pain and you don't put yourself above 39:34 anybody no matter who they are. You're just amazing to me. 39:40 I'm thinking I just want to cry. 39:45 To have an academic person that's high academics even want 39:48 to be a friend with me... 39:50 But I want to take that back Joanie because one of the things 39:53 that I think is amazing is what I have seen over the years 39:57 of our friendship is that you don't let me get away with 40:01 anything. And to me I think that's just such a gift that God 40:04 has given you now is that you'll just say you know I don't get 40:07 that or you'll even laugh at times and say did you just see 40:10 me phase out. I'm mean you'll say that where are first you 40:13 didn't say that. So I think that since these prayer meetings, 40:16 since God has stood you up in this area I see you look at 40:19 people and saying that more often, even with Policia, even 40:23 with Dee, even with Bara, even like with different friends. 40:27 They are very smart academically smart and they love me. 40:32 And you love them. Yes. So if somebody was watching that had 40:37 the same fear you did, the same shyness, the same background 40:42 how would you encourage them to not let that keep getting in 40:47 your way? The devil is a liar and he's 40:50 lied to me all these years and I believed it. Still sometimes I 40:55 do and I just have to ask God to just take him away, rebuke 41:00 him from me. I've just gone blank. 41:04 That's all right. So when that thought comes in your head, when 41:08 you know it's those lies, when you start to bring out the 41:11 little gun to shoot somebody, you just have to say I rebuke 41:14 the devil and I'm not going there anymore. I am definitely 41:17 not going there anymore. That's incredible. 41:20 I don't think I get hurt as much as I used to. So I'm glad you 41:24 pointed that out because I didn't even realize that till 41:27 you said that. It's a huge difference. But I 41:29 watch you more and more even with me and definitely because 41:33 I know the friends that God has brought in your life with prayer 41:36 and stuff and even with them I see you being really, really 41:40 comfortable with saying this is who I am. 41:46 All these years in church though I remember trying to read even 41:50 Ellen White's stuff and it was too hard and I felt lost, like I 41:53 wasn't going to be saved because why would God bring this 41:56 beautiful person to our church with all this insight and 41:58 everything that she predicted come true and I can't even 42:02 understand her book, Steps to Christ for one. I've tried to 42:06 it I don't know how many times and I wanted to know why this 42:09 book was so beautiful. And one day on my shelf I just pulled 42:12 off a book and it looked like one of those little paper back 42:16 ones where Jesus is like in the city and so I started reading 42:20 it and I was understanding it and I looked at it again and it 42:24 called Steps to Jesus and it's Steps to Christ made easy. 42:28 And I was able to read that book and I was so excited I probably 42:32 even called you. I said, Why? I didn't know this. I was an 42:37 Adventist since 1976 and I just learned three years ago what 42:42 the Steps to Christ was all about and about forgiveness 42:46 and that we can't do anything without Jesus. We don't have 42:50 the victory unless we ask him for it. We don't have 42:52 forgiveness if we don't ask him for it. He changes us and I did 42:58 everything in my own strength... 43:00 To change. Taking the right class, getting up in speech 43:03 I can't even love God unless I ask him to put the love in me. 43:07 I can't do anything. So when I understood that finally... 43:12 Even the smartest person can't do anything unless God gives 43:17 them... Yeah. So it's not about any of that. You know that it's 43:22 really interesting. It's not about that. You even said your 43:26 weekly... Yeah, the Sabbath school lesson. 43:29 Someone heard me talking about my academic issues and she got 43:34 me an Easy Reader Sabbath school lesson, made easy. I was going 43:38 to bring it and I forgot it and the Steps to Christ too. But if 43:42 people don't know that you can get an easy to understand 43:45 Sabbath School lesson; it's available. 43:48 So you've come out of hiding. Especially today! 43:55 I could talk one to one to somebody and tell them. But not 43:58 in a group of people. And I really do feel intimidated 44:03 around people that are high academics. That's probably a 44:07 good project for me to work on next. Because I don't feel like 44:10 me. Yeah. I like you. 44:12 Thank you. So you think that's another lie 44:17 that the devil tells us? 44:18 I asked my doctor, Charlotte's husband, Dr. Holmes. I said, 44:24 this is what I think. Do you have friends that are not 44:30 academic. And he goes, yeah, I guess that's just what you see. 44:36 So he did. He was the first person I even asked so now I'm 44:41 on another project. Of asking folks, just to check 44:45 it out. If the Holy Spirit leads me to 44:48 ask them. When you talk about that kind 44:52 of stuff, even opening up today with us here in the cafe, do you 44:59 feel okay? Yeah, I do. I'm surprised, 45:03 totally surprised. Like I told you I was sitting in the cafe 45:06 the first season that I came and I was fine there; I would never 45:11 be here. And I can't believe how relaxed I am. So this is a huge 45:16 thing for a shy person to do. 45:18 I want to say for one. You know I am thrilled that you're on the 45:23 program. I'm thrilled that you came to share with us. I am even 45:27 happier that you're my friend. I think it's an amazing thing 45:32 that you decided to trust our friendship and open up because 45:36 what I saw God do is just release you from a lot of things 45:42 and so thanks. Thanks for being brave enough to fight all of 45:47 those real issues that you have. Thank you. 45:50 Okay now we're going to take a break and we'll be right back 45:54 but you know it's like when I look at some of the things that 45:58 we deal with we think we know each other, we think we know 46:01 kind of what's going on in our hearts and all those kind of 46:04 things. Absolutely not. We don't. Don't even try to guess. 46:08 And we'll be right back. Stay with us. |
Revised 2014-12-17