Participants: Cheri Peters (Host), James Moon
Series Code: CLR
Program Code: CLR000113B
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00:01 The following program discusses sensitive issues
00:03 related to addictive behavior. 00:05 Parents are cautioned that some material 00:06 may be too candid for younger children. 00:13 Welcome back. 00:14 You know, I sometimes feel like 00:16 I have just no talent at all 00:18 but when I watch God work with somebody 00:20 that really is and you now, Jim, you are a songwriter 00:23 and pastor and so you use words in a number of ways 00:26 with music and in your sermons that are just amazing 00:30 because what I hear when you do that 00:32 is your own personal journey. 00:33 So we are gonna start this segment with a song 00:35 that you wrote one of my favorites 00:37 and so can you let us know 00:39 the journey of writing in the song 00:41 and then play it for us. 00:42 Sure. 00:43 Well this song is entitled love me Jesus 00:45 and the story behind the song 00:49 is after the experience with the kid calling the phone 00:55 and preaching the sermon and whatever 00:59 then I wanting to learn more about addiction. 01:01 So this guy at are one of our churches 01:03 was doing a 12 Step group. 01:05 He had been an alcoholic, he was 17 years in recovery 01:09 and he is leading this 12 Step group. 01:11 And so I go to the group and I was having 01:15 we are doing our group session 01:17 and I was really kind of down on myself that day 01:20 you know I'm not the pastor that I should be 01:23 or not a leader like this person or that person 01:25 I was kind of comparing myself and one of the things 01:28 I love is when heard somebody say, 01:29 comparison is the thief of joy. 01:32 And so my joy had been robbed 01:36 and Jack turns to me and he goes, 01:38 Jim, he says you are okay, you are okay. 01:42 Amen. 01:43 And just the way he said it, I heard God saying 01:47 I love you and I started to weep 01:50 because it was like you know I ultimately 01:53 I don't want to be a super hero I don't want to be in the dumb 01:56 I just want to be okay. 01:57 I just want to know that I am loved and I am okay. 02:00 I think its probably what we all want to know. 02:02 Amen. 02:03 And so then one morning I was just having my quite time 02:07 and this song just kind of came together 02:10 out of that quite time and as I was singing 02:14 and the words were coming I just started to weep again 02:17 and reminded me that experience with Jack 02:19 and its just kind of become my life song 02:22 and its called "Love Me Jesus." 02:24 Song is so anointed. 02:42 Oh, the words I long to hear 02:46 When I enter heaven's gate 02:51 And not so much wealth 02:54 As I have loved You all Your days 02:59 From Your very first breath 03:03 When they laid You in the grave 03:07 You've been my heart's delight 03:11 The one I died to say 03:18 Love me, Jesus 03:22 Not for all I do 03:26 For all that You is faith 03:30 I need amazing grace 03:34 Just love me, Jesus 03:38 'Cause my only hope of change 03:42 It's not so much well done 03:47 As Your amazing grace 04:01 And the words I long to hear 04:05 When I bow at Your feet 04:10 And not so much well done 04:14 As, my child, don't You weep 04:18 For my grace was sufficient 04:22 For Your every need 04:27 And now we have each other 04:31 Through eternity 04:37 Oh, love me, Jesus 04:41 Not for all I do 04:45 For all that You is faith 04:49 I need amazing grace 04:54 Just love me, Jesus 04:58 'Cause my only hope of change 05:02 It's not so much well done 05:06 As Your amazing grace 05:21 When you finally speak the word 05:26 Well done, my faithful child 05:31 I know it was Your grace 05:36 That brought me every mile 05:39 From my very first steps 05:44 To when I lay down my soul 05:48 It will have been Your goodness 05:53 Working in me, Lord 05:58 And I love you, Jesus 06:03 For all that you've done 06:07 For giving Your life 06:11 For giving Your blood 06:15 Yes, I love you, Jesus 06:20 'Cause You're my only hope of change 06:24 When You say to me, well done 06:30 When You say to me, well done 06:37 And when You say to me, well done 06:44 I'll say amazing grace 06:49 I'll say amazing grace 06:55 Good will have been Your grace 07:16 That's incredible. 07:18 You know, just that you know the words of that 07:20 as you know we are looking for that well done. 07:23 It's all that cool stuff but when we actually see 07:26 who are and the distance between what I am 07:30 and what God is gonna create is that we know its grace. 07:33 I mean, we really know it's the blood of Christ 07:36 and mercy of God and the grace of God that gets us there. 07:38 Amen. That's grace. 07:40 That's all it is. Amen. 07:42 I got to tell you a story about that okay thing. 07:44 I'm on my way from St. Louis to 3ABN 07:49 and I have two people that have never been here 07:50 and I'm excited that they are here all that kind of stuff 07:53 and but I pass the off ramp to go to 3ABN by two hours 07:58 so not just by a few minutes by two hours 08:00 and so now its really late at night. 08:02 We show up at this cafe and this woman is there 08:07 she is the only one in cafe 08:08 because its 2:30, 3:30 in the morning 08:10 and me and the two girls that I'm with were laughing out loud 08:14 and we are having a great time and we are talking about, 08:16 you know, how flaky I'm to pass by a couple of hours. 08:20 We are in a different state by the way 08:21 so we are no longer even in Illinois 08:23 and the waitress just look like 08:25 she was really stressed about something. 08:27 So I said, no one is here why don't you join us? 08:29 Why don't you eat with us? 08:31 And she sat down and she was really struggling 08:33 and she started crying. 08:34 We prayed with her, we talked with her, 08:36 we ended up going through this whole crisis with her 08:40 and then she laughed and I said you know what, 08:42 I'm gonna get back to 3ABN and they are gonna just, 08:44 you know, they are gonna say you know 08:45 I'm just flaky or whatever. 08:47 And she said I want you to know that you are okay. 08:50 And so when you said that even before the song 08:52 I just really know what it feels like to, 08:54 think you are not that she said you okay 08:56 I said can you write that down? 08:58 I was just joking, can you write that down for me? 09:00 And so she went in the bag 09:01 when she got our ticket down to page, 09:04 she went in the bag and with the sharpies 09:06 she wrote on a napkin. 09:08 You are okay and she handed it to me 09:10 and I have that in my office now framed, I'm okay. 09:14 And so even with the writing of that song 09:17 is that the message is that where Jesus 09:19 is because of His grace we are okay. 09:22 You know, really it is His amazing grace. 09:24 Amen. 09:25 And I love the hymn writer I can't get his name right now 09:28 when he says, "The best obedience of my hands 09:31 dares not appear before Thy throne. 09:33 But faith can answer Thy demands by pleading 09:37 what my Lord has done." 09:38 Amen, amen. 09:40 I don't have anything to bring in 09:42 but a broken life and He says I'll take it. 09:45 Hallelujah, I'll take it, that's what He says. 09:47 He delights in us and so when He says 09:51 you know we are okay He is saying, you know, 09:53 what you are just I delight in you. 09:56 I can't help myself. You are right. 09:58 You are right. 09:59 So you don't even I want to talk-- 10:02 have you talk to us a little bit 10:04 about the way God uses music with you. 10:07 The way God uses words or sermons with you 10:10 in your recovery because it's sounds like-- 10:12 it seems like I've known you for a while now 10:15 and every single time I see you sit down and-- 10:17 and put a song together is God really has giving you 10:21 that as you have gone through this trail? 10:24 Yeah. 10:26 Yeah, I think you know sometimes I'm stressed out 10:29 or just often times I use to write songs 10:32 and during test week at school. 10:35 And started studying. Yeah, yeah. 10:37 It was just, you know, 10:40 I think what comes to my mind right now 10:43 just as you asked that question 10:44 is there is a young women named Bethany 10:49 and she gave me permission to share her story 10:52 if it would be helpful. 10:53 And she was going through a divorce 10:55 and she was working at the hospital 10:57 where a guy from our church worked in. 11:00 He was her boss and we are sharing 11:03 and Tim calls me up and says 11:04 and I just recently moved to this church. 11:07 Tim calls up and he says can you talk to Bethany. 11:10 I'm like what, I never met her but okay. 11:12 So you know she came to our house 11:14 so that we could just have good boundaries 11:16 and have the office door open and Ingrid was there 11:19 and when she came to the front door 11:22 she looked like she had been hit by a Mack truck. 11:25 I mean emotionally just I have never seen any. 11:27 Devastating. 11:28 Yeah, like she wouldn't hardly look in the eye 11:31 and was kind of skittish and wouldn't talk and, 11:34 so I said I just said that to her you look like 11:38 you have been hit by a Mack truck 11:40 what's your story? 11:41 And she said, I can't remember a time in my life 11:43 when I didn't feel depressed. 11:46 And I was like wow, I had read just recently 11:50 the story of David Brainerd, 11:52 John Piper has a series of biographical sermons 11:55 and I read that sermon and Brainerd 11:56 was this guy in the 1740 11:59 who had gone to one of the Ivy League schools 12:00 on the east coast got kicked out of school 12:03 because he had been critical with the faculty. 12:05 Jonathan Edwards had come to the school 12:07 and there had been a big rival and Brainerd hit criticize 12:10 the fact that because they weren't spiritual enough. 12:12 You know there weren't responding to the Spirit of God 12:15 and they gave him warning and then 12:16 they kicked him out of school. 12:17 Back then the only way you could be as a pastor 12:20 was if you had graduated from one of these schools. 12:24 Well, turns out he gets kicked out 12:26 he ends up having tuberculosis. 12:29 He battles with melancholic, 12:30 which is what we would call depression today 12:33 and yet he starts to write this journal 12:37 of his because God calls him 12:39 to be a like a evangelist or missionary 12:43 to the native Americans along the eastern coast. 12:46 And so he is going around he is keeping a journal 12:50 and hyper points out in sermons 12:51 that when William Carey went to India 12:54 he took two books, he took the biography 12:57 of David Brainerd and his Bible. 12:59 So he takes the biography of this guy 13:02 who is battling depression. 13:04 In fact Jim Elliot the guy from story 13:06 the end of the spear who lives with Elliot, book, 13:10 Through Gates of Splendor same story 13:12 once a movie, once a book. 13:13 Jim Elliot, Brainerd was instrumental in his testimony 13:18 of ministering in the mist of his depression 13:22 so I say to Bethany, I say Bethany well, 13:25 depression is not the worst thing in the world. 13:26 May be God wants to use your depression 13:28 to make you a blessing. 13:30 Amen. That's true. 13:31 Because we try to run from that kind of stuff 13:33 so what a gift to say maybe in your store room 13:38 God is gonna use. 13:39 So, then I played to her that song "Love Me Jesus." 13:42 And I played her the song 13:43 and she kind of did one of these. 13:45 She like cocked her head and said, 13:47 like, she couldn't believe it 13:49 and then she said will you sing that again. 13:51 So I had to sing the song two times 13:53 and then I said to her I said, I told her the story about Jack 13:57 and the 12 Step group and said Bethany, 14:00 I said you are okay. 14:03 Oh. 14:04 And so-- Amen. 14:07 You know, it's like God give us 14:08 these things like Jack sent to me, 14:11 you are okay not to-- 14:13 it's like Jesus said freely you receive, freely you give. 14:16 And the greatest gifts 14:18 we can give one another are those inner personal 14:21 emotional blessings that somebody is giving us 14:24 when God is spoken through them to us 14:26 and then He creates and opportunity 14:27 where we can speak to another 14:30 like that whole play of forward concept. 14:32 Exactly, exactly. 14:34 And I think for a lot of us 14:35 and I love when you say that for a lot of us 14:38 is we see our struggles as something to run from 14:42 and when the Bible says, don't-- 14:44 don't run too fast from your tribulations 14:47 from your struggles from this 14:49 because sometimes that really builds character 14:52 and helps you to see adopting yourself and others 14:55 that you won't see any other way. 14:57 But we don't like to feel that. 15:00 We don't like to, to look at our anger 15:02 or depression or any of that kind of stuff 15:04 and God says I promise you give it to Me 15:06 like you said earlier and I'll use all of it. 15:09 Yeah, absolutely. All of it. 15:11 He does, He totally uses every odds of hardship 15:14 we ever experienced. 15:15 You know, we-- we have talked in your journey 15:19 about the early stuff coming through that early stuff 15:23 and that shame how God opened for you 15:26 in understanding of people even in addictions. 15:29 So its like, you know, I have an understanding 15:31 of what's that like may be not in the same way 15:33 as someone else working through some of your anger 15:38 and you know and even the intensity of that 15:42 with your children and having to say 15:44 as do I want to be this. 15:46 Do you have anything to say about those two things? 15:49 About? 15:50 About the anger or the early yours the things 15:53 that you dealt with as far as 15:54 not allowing the devil to keep you in shame. 15:57 Well, I think you know I had an experience 16:02 just addressing both of those briefly. 16:05 I had an experience or may be about five years ago 16:09 where you know, I think for guys, 16:13 sexually related things can continue to be a temptation 16:16 and I go on the Victoria Secrets website 16:19 and it was very intense and I realize then after 16:24 like 15 years of ministry the intensity 16:28 that I felt physiologically was nothing like 16:33 what I feel what am with my wife. 16:37 It was almost like the difference between 16:39 a natural high and maybe methamphetamine 16:41 I've never done that but that intensity 16:44 was so intense it didn't feel natural 16:46 to what I experience in marriage 16:48 and all of a sudden I realized oh, wow, 16:50 you know that's why God is trying to keep us 16:53 from those things because then 16:54 if I'm comparing that pornographic experience 16:59 with the experience with my wife 17:01 I'm gonna think the experience with my wife fall short 17:03 when really there is so much more depth of intimacy 17:06 there then some like over the top rush its gone 17:12 and then you feel embarrassed or shame. 17:14 I never felt embarrassed or shame 17:15 when I had an intimate moral with my wife. 17:18 Right, and its real. Yeah. 17:20 And so, really, it's really tough 17:22 and I want to stay there for a minute 17:23 because for a lot of us men and women in sexual addictions 17:28 is that we don't realize that we are cultivating something 17:31 that will never happen in the natural. 17:34 It cannot happen. 17:35 There is no way to kick it up to that high. 17:37 It's a fantasy world. 17:38 It's a fantasy world not real 17:40 but we will hook us to the point 17:43 where we will never be able to meet that 17:47 and will always feel like somehow 17:50 if I wasn't stuck here I could have that. 17:53 There is always that breeding that dissatisfaction 17:57 that saying just says, absolutely, 18:01 you need to leave, you need to go somewhere, 18:03 you need to be online with something. 18:07 And the more we go somewhere the less 18:10 we feel fulfilled with somewhere 18:12 and the less we feel fulfilled with right here. 18:15 I mean it's like he has got us in a bind. 18:17 You know, we are not happy in the fantasy world, 18:19 we are not happy in the real world 18:21 and so we start to disperse. 18:23 And you know coming to the anger piece 18:26 which I still feel like that's something God's work in me 18:30 through I haven't arrived 18:31 and I'm sure after I get over anger 18:33 there will be something else. 18:35 Then you know that's true. 18:37 You are like come on, 18:38 where you get a little break in between. 18:40 So but you know what I realize about anger 18:43 is that there are times when I've got so angry 18:47 that Ingrid will say to be she is like 18:49 I'm not even gonna talk to you right now you are irrational. 18:52 And I realize that I really believe 18:55 and I'm read the studies to prove it out 18:58 but I think that anger can become like this addiction 19:02 and its like there is when you are upset about 19:06 something and then there is one just start to rage 19:08 and its like somebody filled a switch 19:10 and you don't feel like you can turn it out 19:13 and you just so just ticked off, 19:15 I mean I just a we have to go, 19:18 I have one of those days and Ingrid said something 19:21 and it wasn't really her fault. 19:23 I mean, but I was stressed out and I just triggered something 19:27 and I just started to lose it 19:29 and then we have this inner personal interaction 19:31 I started to lose it some more and then I had the kids 19:34 and I was trying to get house projects done 19:35 and they were constantly coming 19:37 and I was just angry all day long 19:40 and I was miserable and so-- 19:43 So as anger that bad. What? 19:45 So as she or bad. 19:47 Oh, yeah, yeah, she was like you know 19:50 but fortunately I feel so blessed 19:52 because God has given me a wife 19:55 that she has a nose for dysfunction 19:58 she can smell it a lot mile away 20:00 so she protects me from people 20:01 who might try and manipulate me 20:03 but she also knows when I'm in my junk 20:07 and she can go you are in your junk 20:09 and you know get over yourself or get away are whatever. 20:12 Take a walk or whatever. I'm not gonna deal with you. 20:14 So, she really does pretty good at not engaging with me. 20:18 So you know for somebody that 20:20 deals with those kinds of things 20:23 what are the some steps that you do 20:25 to kind of get a grip yourself like when I start to... 20:29 Well, you know, I'm so learning those steps 20:34 I feel like but if I'm in a healthier place 20:38 I'll go away and pray you know, 20:43 I'm quite time one time 20:44 God gave me that in my journaling time 20:47 I was like when you get angry walk away and pray. 20:50 It's so hard to do. And you journal too? 20:52 Yeah, I do. 20:53 Look as I, you know, I watched you 20:55 not only walk away and pray but I watched you like journals 20:58 through where you have got in a few pages 21:00 on you know what was this all about 21:04 and where did God take you from there 21:06 and then you blog it and bless all of us with it 21:08 so in a sense that you use it. 21:12 And I-- I mean I remember one time 21:14 I don't remember what it was 21:15 but I was upset and I'm driving away 21:19 and I'm beating the horn on the car 21:22 and yelling and screaming words I want to say here to God 21:26 and just like so when I think that's viable 21:29 I mean you see David in the Psalms 21:31 and you know when he says, you know, 21:32 may their little ones be thrown against the stones 21:34 its not exactly like he is being a pansy or being nice 21:37 but I think God has big enough-- 21:40 He just break their jaws 21:42 not break their teeth out of their mouth. 21:44 Yeah, so, Gods shoulders are big enough 21:46 that if we can learn to direct our anger towards Him 21:49 I believe He will do this exchange 21:51 where you know as we come to Him with all our junk 21:55 He will work this transformation in our heart. 21:57 And I remember Bengie Max and tell a story 21:59 of pastor meet about a girl that come to 22:01 and she said I just want to curse God to His face, 22:04 curse Him out and he said do it. 22:06 And so when she did that over about a year 22:11 God totally changed her where she says I want to pray now, 22:14 where she didn't want to talk to God before. 22:16 I love the fact that God you know 22:18 when you say just do it. 22:19 You know, just yell at God just take that to God 22:22 and we are afraid of all that kind of stuff 22:24 and even when you know God takes all of that stuff 22:27 that we are currently going through 22:28 don't think that you are vibe 22:30 don't think this is a destination here is that 22:33 you know we are a mess and God said 22:35 daily bring those things that you work with 22:38 because that's the best we can do at any given time. 22:41 I would like see if there's any questions in the cafe 22:43 because I know it's really funny because Brad, 22:45 you know you are my husband 22:46 I love you but you dealt with anger in your life. 22:49 You know, I absolutely have it you know that very well 22:51 because you do live with me. 22:54 Jim, I just want to start by saying 22:55 thank you for the song 22:56 because I was so blessed by that 22:58 but the anger thing has been something 23:00 that have dealt with in my life 23:02 and well I have got some victory 23:03 there are still some there. 23:06 In fact, last weekend an incident happened on my job 23:10 that it impacted my ability 23:11 to perform on my job a little bit 23:13 because anger came up 23:15 and Cheri and I even dealt with some stuff 23:17 last night is funny as it is. 23:19 I mean it so to speak with the idea of maintenance 23:23 you know on a daily basis or how can we move forward 23:27 and really deal with some and in hand 23:29 that's often a way that 23:30 its not our burden to carry any more. 23:32 Well, I think the one of the things 23:36 is just I guess saying to God in the Psalms 23:40 where David says, Lord search me and know me. 23:43 And I think when I try and rigid up 23:46 this is my personality 23:48 I kind of get over while I'm with it all. 23:50 So its like on a daily basis 23:53 we are not freaking out to say Lord, 23:57 just search my heart when we go to the word 24:00 if we are spending time 24:01 I recommend spending time in the word every day 24:03 and just saying Lord, you know where I'm at, 24:06 what my journey is, 24:07 where I met the recovery process 24:09 so You give me a word today that will minister to me 24:14 and the way that I need to grow 24:16 and also a word that will allow me 24:17 to minister to the people You put my circle 24:20 that I can help lift them up. 24:22 So search me know me and direct me 24:27 and then you know some of the other things 24:29 I don't know, I guess I just when anger comes up 24:32 I just go back to God and try and talk about it. 24:36 Sometimes it takes me a while 24:37 because I suffer righteousness in the sense of I'm right 24:40 and there are-- a mess its hatred 24:42 like get to that place where I'm just willing to say 24:45 you know I really screwed it up 24:46 by I was wrong and so you can pray for me 24:51 because I don't feel like 24:53 I have a whole lot of answers yet 24:55 I mean those are some of the things but I'm so. 24:58 What's really interesting to is that 25:00 that I love the fact that you said 25:02 you know with anger in and she is amazing 25:04 but she is been able to look at you 25:06 and say you know this is not my stuff 25:08 and I am not taking it on. 25:09 So giving people permission in your circle to know 25:14 that you know when you say that it does help. 25:16 May be not in the middle of my anger 25:18 but it helps me because I get it the fact 25:21 that you have those things 25:22 take a walk journal and grab your guitar. 25:25 Brad is a trumpet play, just do some screaming 25:28 high notes on your trumpet 25:30 you know do something that 25:31 actually takes you out of yourself. 25:33 Brad also you are cyclists 25:36 ride your bikes all kind of stuff with our anger 25:38 is that we got to do it that way. 25:41 But somebody said to me, you know, 25:43 Cheri, do you have anger? 25:45 I remember saying you know I don't think so. 25:47 And there was a council that said that 25:49 and they just looked at me and said oh, man, 25:51 she is so in denial with this. 25:52 So sometimes we don't even realize 25:54 that we are dealing with things 25:55 until God in His grace starts to show us. 25:59 But part of our journey, 26:00 part of our sanctification is God says, 26:06 "let me unfold this for you." 26:07 I want to say thank you being on the program. 26:10 I want to say to anybody watching 26:11 I hope you were blessed. 26:12 I would like and set it to close out the program 26:15 like we usually do. 26:16 I would like you to come in and bless us 26:18 with another one of your songs because you are-- 26:21 I think God really speak through those. 26:23 And so I'm gonna close right now and say goodbye. 26:26 Always remember that God is crazy about you, me too. 26:28 We are gonna comeback listen to Jim singing 26:31 and then I'll see you next time. |
Revised 2014-12-17