Participants: Cheri Peters (Host), Bob McKain
Series Code: CLR
Program Code: CLR000114B
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00:01 The following program discusses sensitive issues
00:03 related to addictive behavior. 00:05 Parents are cautioned that some material 00:06 may be too candid for younger children. 00:14 Welcome. 00:15 You know, we are talking about environment 00:18 and all of that kind of stuff 00:19 and I was telling you difference 00:20 in a physical environment or going outside 00:23 and how beautiful that is, your emotional environment, 00:26 your work environment. 00:27 And, you know, Bob McKain, 00:29 I want to say welcome to the show. 00:31 Thank you for coming. 00:32 But do you remember what I'm talking about 00:34 when I said, I walked down the hallway 00:35 looked up at you and said hey. 00:39 You know, I do and at the time 00:42 when you did that I thought, 00:43 well, this is interesting because I was told, 00:46 I probably shouldn't manage nonprofit ever again. 00:49 Because you have just done it. 00:50 I just done it. 00:51 And it was not-- not that it wasn't good on your part. 00:54 Talk a little bit about that and say why would you say, 00:56 ah, I don't know? 00:57 You know, I think, I think it really truly is 01:01 trying to fit the square peg in a round hole. 01:03 I'm very much, very much into business, 01:06 corporate business 01:08 and that's what I understood, that's what I spend my time in. 01:11 You know, managed multimillion dollar projects 01:14 up to 40 to 100 people at a time in a test lab 01:19 and so going into a non profit it's a different thing. 01:24 Even when you say that, 01:25 there is a part in me that I just get tickled 01:28 because I think how funny is that 01:31 because not only am I saying do on a gig 01:32 and what you're doing, but we're so flaky. 01:35 You know, so I think even the nonprofit you came from 01:38 probably was a little bit more together than us 01:41 and but what was your process like, what did you do 01:44 because you eventually said yes? 01:47 You know, the fact is that I was looking, okay, 01:50 and I just wasn't sure what I wanted to do 01:52 and what I was going to do. 01:54 You know, it's-- you reach to the point 01:58 you don't know what you want. 01:59 You just don't know 02:00 where you are going to go next, right? 02:01 And so I had to think about this 02:04 because I was like, okay, great, 02:05 another non profit, I said I'm not going to, 02:07 I just can't do with another nonprofit, 02:08 I'm just not going to do it. 02:10 And for whatever reason I'm not really sure, 02:14 I think God just said, you know, 02:16 I really want you to do this and you can help them. 02:20 Amen. 02:21 And so I think that's really why I came down to you. 02:23 Well, I found out within the first little while 02:25 when you said yes. 02:26 When you said yes and we both had to laugh 02:29 because it's like can we hire you, 02:30 we have not money, and you're like, okay. 02:35 You know, when you said yes, that was kind of incredible 02:37 but then I also heard about your prior job 02:39 where they outsourced the entire department. 02:41 So you had employment history where I think 02:45 you were getting hit in every single direction, 02:49 prior to coming to us. 02:50 Yeah, I would say so 02:52 and I think that's actually very typical for-- 02:56 for a lot of Americans right now 03:00 that are in this age group in the 50 to mid 50s. 03:05 You know, for whatever reason the jobs are being off shored 03:09 and I really don't want to go into that, 03:10 that's a whole different thing. 03:12 But, you know, the truth of the matter is 03:13 many jobs have been off shored downsize whatever 03:16 and trying to decide 03:18 what you gonna do with your life, 03:19 you know, you got to, you gonna reinvent yourself 03:21 or you gonna try and go back 03:22 and do what you know how to do it 03:24 and search some place to do it. 03:25 Yeah, so that was really-- I just, I just had so much fun 03:30 because I'm looking at you when you finally said yes, 03:33 realizing what a gift you are to our organization 03:37 and the success you had to give us, 03:40 but also realizing that 03:42 we're addicts in recovery, we're flaky. 03:44 We're coming from broken homes. 03:45 We're dealing with kids 03:47 that are coming from foster placements. 03:49 We're doing prison ministries. 03:51 We're traveling to Thailand working with prostitutes 03:55 and here's this business guy that stumbles in. 03:58 So at one point I remember telling you. 04:00 I think I'd like you to read my book, 04:03 Miracle from the Streets to just 04:04 and I thought just get idea like who we are 04:07 and I handed it to you, and the look on your face. 04:10 What did you say? How you did? 04:11 What was that about for you? 04:13 You know, you handed me Miracle from the Streets 04:16 and I just, you know, I looked at that 04:18 and I said, yeah, whatever. 04:23 Thank you. Thank you. 04:24 I didn't see that thing, 04:25 stay for a while I was thinking, 04:27 oh, great, you know, here's my homework. 04:29 Yeah. And so... 04:31 And now she is my boss, 04:32 I have to at least glance at it. 04:33 I have to look at, you know, and so I did. 04:35 I did actually took it and I actually read it, 04:39 you know, I think was-- we had disk, 04:41 we have product that needed to get out. 04:42 I think I was burning disks and at that time, you know, 04:47 it was intensive enough, 04:49 it was just chewing up the computer time so. 04:51 I read the book straight through 04:53 from cover to cover while I was doing that. 04:55 And so, you know what? 04:57 This is my favorite part 04:58 because I feel like the Holy Spirit stepped in 05:01 and talked directly to you. 05:04 Really had nothing to do with my story 05:06 in particular though. 05:08 Can you share that with us? 05:10 Yeah. 05:11 You know, this is something we've been talking back, 05:13 you know, where we're going to go from, 05:14 you know, with this. 05:17 You know, the fact of the matter is 05:19 as you know, 05:22 when I say a lot of people are in the situation 05:24 that I found myself in, 05:26 it is a very difficult situation to be in. 05:28 And, you know, I think we're all trying to decide, 05:31 you know, what is going on, 05:33 am I really truly now worthless. 05:35 Am I really truly now unable to do the things 05:38 I used to do it. 05:39 And I remember hitting a distinct wall at one point 05:43 where I literally just could not do anything. 05:46 I couldn't do any of the things 05:47 I was capable of doing anymore. 05:48 I couldn't think. 05:49 Anything that you define yourself by? 05:51 Anything that I define myself by, 05:53 but not only that but any of the things 05:55 that I knew that I was capable of doing. 05:57 I just simply, I came to a point 06:00 where I wasn't smart enough, good enough, 06:02 anything anymore to do things that I needed to do 06:05 and that was a hard place to hit. 06:07 I mean I just couldn't process stuff anymore. 06:09 And, you know, I went through 06:11 a very huge depression state 06:18 to the point of-- I don't like to see this 06:20 but contemplating suicide 06:23 And a lot of especially, 06:25 you know, a lot of people don't like to say that 06:26 and when they say, you know, I just got hit, 06:28 I lost my job, they've outsourced, 06:31 they've whatever, I mean age group that 06:33 people are not even want to interview. 06:35 I've got all the stuff going on. 06:37 Man, I am just done. 06:38 You know, I am just done. 06:40 And, you know, it's really interesting 06:43 when you started to say that out loud 06:46 is I do hear that all over the place. 06:48 It's like, you know, where do we go 06:50 when our identity is just kind of yanked from us 06:53 and nobody is handing us something else. 06:57 You know, typically I think we do feel like 07:00 we're in this alone most of the time 07:02 and I think, I think what happen here is that... 07:07 God knew where I was at, may be I didn't, 07:10 but He certainly did 07:12 and I really wasn't looking for God. 07:15 At the time it's like, yeah, this God thing, whatever. 07:17 I'm here to do a job, okay. 07:19 And that's really the way I saw it. 07:21 That's so the way it was for you. 07:23 So funny, you were so business, 07:26 and I'm like looking at you saying, 07:28 oh, man, he is going to really understand how flaky I am. 07:31 Do you know what? 07:32 And I thought it was really funny 07:34 that God brought this whole thing together and for me 07:37 because I just got it so brand 07:40 is for me to being able to say, 07:41 God, what's Your plan here because I don't get it. 07:46 And so you're reading the book, you're doing, you know, 07:50 you read it through, Holy Spirit said what? 07:55 You know, really it just brought me to 07:57 the point of realizing that I think you said 08:02 and it really hit me that God was, 08:05 not only He's just crazy about me, 08:06 He was just like insanely crazy. 08:11 Amen. 08:12 You know, to the point where you now just look at 08:13 and go house of hell, just insane it is that even for, 08:18 you know, me because when I look at the things 08:20 that were wrong with me, 08:21 I just said, you know, God, I don't know, 08:24 I don't even like me, how can You like me? 08:26 And, you know, for him 08:28 basically at that moment of time said, 08:29 you know, I'm so fiercely insanely 08:31 crazy about you, okay. 08:33 I sent My Son, I allowed My Son to pay your price, right? 08:38 And I'm like why would you do that? 08:40 You know why? 08:41 Because I love you. 08:42 And, you know, and really that's the message 08:45 I think that you give, 08:47 and, well, I though it was kind of hokey at first, 08:50 I really do understand that God is crazy about me. 08:54 What was really amazing to me, Bob, is that 08:58 when you left with the book, I knew that you, 09:00 I didn't even think you were going to read it 09:02 because I got that sense when I gave it to you. 09:05 And I'm again just smiling at God saying, 09:08 you know, God, what's up? 09:09 Why this guy? 09:11 And I immediately trusted your talent, your skills, 09:15 your business stuff and not that I knew 09:18 what you're going to do with them till it last, 09:19 but you know, I immediately trusted that. 09:21 But when I gave you the book I thought, 09:23 I wonder if he's going to even read it, 09:25 but the next time I saw you all of the sudden 09:28 what I saw was this kind of almost a softening up, 09:33 you know, that kind of pushing that hardcore kind of shell 09:37 was literally kind of broken somewhat 09:40 and soften and I thought, oh, what happened? 09:42 You know, and you can see it and I was like what happened? 09:44 And you started talking about that you got the thing 09:47 about forgiveness through the book. 09:48 Got the same thing about 09:50 God is crazy about us through the book 09:52 regardless of what we bring to the table. 09:56 That we have a God that's bigger than that. 09:57 That's right. 09:59 That's you. 10:01 Yeah. 10:02 So are you willing to go into any of your job? 10:08 You're like, I knew you are going to ask me that, 10:10 because, you know, what's really tough is 10:12 I knew a lot of your stuff, 10:14 but I know that this is really new for you I think that-- 10:19 And what's interesting for a lot of us 10:21 especially when we've survived with our skills and talents 10:24 and been out in the corporate world 10:25 and all that kind of stuff. 10:26 When God said, you know what? 10:27 I'd like you to come out of the bondage emotionally 10:30 and can we look at these issues that you have chidden 10:33 your whole life so that you could be free. 10:40 Yeah. 10:42 So when I was about six, 10:44 I was sexually molested by a neighborhood girl. 10:52 I know that most people would think 10:54 that's every guy's dream, right? 10:57 And what they didn't realized that was something 10:59 that was affecting me so profoundly. 11:00 I had extreme anger issues, road rages, now, 11:06 you know, it's just not a problem for me. 11:08 Right. 11:09 You know, I'd just rather hit you than catch you, 11:14 that's kind of where I was at. 11:15 But, you know, what? 11:16 Like even though I knew that we might possible go into that. 11:19 This is really tough for you to even say aloud 11:21 because you weren't saying this to your family or anybody. 11:25 I looked at some of other things 11:27 that how are men affected by early molest 11:31 or sexualized behavior in that rage 11:33 and that anger was really common. 11:35 It was saying that will act out with our addictions 11:40 or rage or whatever, not even thinking that 11:44 it is associated at all with the early molest. 11:48 I would never have guessed that was a-- 11:51 Yeah, you know, another, one of the other things 11:54 kind of manifested for me is sort of this 11:57 love hate relationship with women. 12:00 I obviously married, loved my wife, 12:02 I love my daughter. 12:04 There are women I will work with and trust, 12:07 but for the most part if a woman got, 12:10 you know, too close to me, it was not only get away, 12:13 it was just get away and then I would turn in, 12:16 I'd like to say, I turned into spot, 12:18 you know, just more emotional more, you know, 12:20 the more they came on just the more. 12:22 It felt manipulate a bit, felt like somehow 12:25 I've got to protect myself against you. 12:27 Don't play me like that. 12:28 Don't cry, don't use your tears, 12:31 but those were all triggers for you to go into rage. 12:34 Yeah. 12:35 In fact it's still there because right now 12:38 everything inside is just going... 12:40 But, you know, what? 12:41 I hear when you say that, 12:44 but I don't know if I abide as much as-- 12:46 You know we've been working together 12:47 for how long now? 12:49 Little over year. 12:50 Little over year and I remember one time 12:54 talk about the time the computer thing 12:56 and your other gig 12:58 and the guy that was having struggles. 13:01 Oh. Yeah. 13:02 Because you have changed in so many ways, 13:05 even though you might not see it 13:07 as much as we get to see it. 13:08 Sure. 13:10 You know, I have a buddy in... 13:12 Well, I say a buddy 13:14 because I really wouldn't have certainly called him a buddy. 13:17 'Cause you didn't like him. 13:18 Yeah, it was an acquaint instead I had. 13:20 I have the website that I run for-- 13:24 If you ever watched movies like Shrek Cars 13:27 or anything like that, we call that 3D modeling. 13:30 That's why I've slide it, the kind it does that, 13:32 that's why I met this gentleman and because he was... 13:34 Let me just do a commercial here for the site. 13:36 He is so good, unbelievable on the 3D stuff 13:40 that you've put together. 13:41 You just sold a train 3D model that you put together online 13:46 to somebody else is doing 13:47 some kind of motion picture promotion. 13:49 Yeah. So you really are good. 13:51 This is a real site with some incredible artist. 13:56 Yeah. 13:57 And I have to say, you know, I am just nullified, 13:59 these guys are incredible people, 14:02 but anyway this is how I met him and he is in Ireland 14:05 and I'm not going to mention his name or anything. 14:07 It's just we've had some extremely... 14:11 And I'm thrilled about, he is just a jerk in Ireland. 14:14 I'm sorry. 14:16 We don't want to mention his name. 14:17 Even he has got the same thing about me. 14:19 It was very mutual. 14:21 But, you know, because he was Wiccan 14:24 and I am a Christian, at least, you know, a sort of Christian. 14:27 So on every single level you guys are not. 14:29 We used to clash on everything, right? 14:31 And we couldn't agree on anything 14:33 and it was a complete-- 14:35 We would talk for hours and it was like 14:37 screaming, yelling mad at each other, right? 14:39 And so I had not heard anything from him in probably, 14:43 I won't say may be seven eight months, you know, 14:46 and all of a sudden he is trying to call me on skype 14:50 I hate when that happens 14:51 because I just don't want to pick it up. 14:54 Yeah, and I did neither. 14:56 But something said pick it up and so I did. 15:01 You know, long story short, 15:02 we had a very long conversation. 15:04 You know, he was in a very difficult situation 15:07 and something that I really felt 15:08 he could have been suicidal over 15:10 and so, and I kind of picked that up 15:13 because of the messages he texted 15:15 as he was trying to call. 15:16 And so anyway we talked a long time. 15:18 I shared with him more I was at, 15:20 that's kind of what led into where I was at. 15:21 Shared with him your spiritual journey right now. 15:24 Spiritual journey right now, what I've just shared, 15:27 you know, what I just shared with you, 15:29 you know, about being molested as a child 15:31 and what it had led me to 15:33 and, you know, at that point in time 15:35 we really did apologize to each other 15:37 for being such jerks to each other 15:40 because we had been. 15:43 And then in the process of that discussion I just said, 15:46 you know, just imagine 15:49 if what we went through his cause just to do this. 15:52 Just imagine what it means for you, 15:54 you know, this person, this person and this person 15:56 what, you know, people that we had, 15:58 you know hadn't said we're dealings with 16:00 and at that point. 16:01 Because what you were saying is that 16:03 we don't know what people have gone through. 16:05 We don't know what happened to them in their life 16:07 and yet didn't it just, didn't it just surprised you 16:12 that you were speaking so compassionately, 16:15 so emotionally with some spiritual truth 16:18 because that's not like 16:19 what you were doing a week before. 16:20 No, no, I wouldn't have done that six months prior, 16:22 you know, six months prior 16:25 I'd just simply said, well, that's your problem, okay. 16:28 I don't have anything to share with you 16:30 or deal with you, 16:31 and it's funny the reason he did called me as he said, 16:34 you know, the reason I called you 16:35 because of all the people I know, you will be real, okay. 16:39 So anyway at that time notice like 16:43 all the light bulbs went out in his head 16:45 and he said, you know, I just can't believe 16:48 because I just can't imagine 16:51 what must have happened for those people, 16:54 and I've been so incredibly mean to him as well. 16:57 Right. 16:58 And so, you know, so all of the sudden, 17:01 you know, I'm reaching out to a guy who is Wiccan, 17:04 who I'd just normally wouldn't have dealt with. 17:08 And he really didn't trust your Christianity 17:11 because you were angry 17:13 and screaming and yelling or whatever. 17:16 And all of the sudden that change happen. 17:17 So you had when you were sharing with me 17:19 that skype conversation 17:22 and how unusual that was and you could hear yourself. 17:25 I also knew that friend, your wife is in the background 17:30 hearing you responded in a whole different way 17:32 to someone where it would have been anger 17:35 and now it's compassion and saying how cool is that. 17:40 What's happening? Yeah. 17:42 It definitely was different for me 17:45 because of all the things that I've gone through 17:49 which led to me to a point of doing the things 17:52 that I needed to do to protect myself. 17:54 And, you know, I think the part of the journey 17:58 I am on right now is learning 18:01 to allow God to take those things, 18:04 to take those things and own them. 18:07 And let him protect you. 18:09 Yeah. Yeah. 18:10 Because He loves you, He is crazy about you. 18:12 What's so cool about that is that man 18:17 and I don't know, I probably should have checked with you 18:20 even before the program to ask you this next question, 18:23 but there was a time that I think that Brad and I 18:27 and you and your friend went out 18:29 and did Christmas lights or something. 18:31 We just decided we're going to go out 18:32 and you came in and then spoke to your son. 18:38 Oh, man. 18:40 Why don't you help me out a little bit? 18:41 Just being able to share with him, 18:43 may be even for the first time about your molest possible, 18:47 not that he was ready to hear you, 18:49 but even opening up in the sense saying, 18:51 you know, what, I need to share something about myself 18:53 and when you did that I was like, you know, 18:56 it's incredible how God... 18:59 Yeah. 19:00 Okay, so, you know, because of everything 19:06 that's happened in my life and, you know, it's been... 19:14 I'm not just sure where to, what to do with this. 19:16 You know, we just all messed up, 19:19 okay with this. 19:20 Exactly and you know how many people 19:22 that are watching are saying exactly 19:24 and I wish I hadn't and man when I think about mine, 19:27 it brings that shame and guilt or whatever. 19:29 And yet at this point in your journey back to God 19:33 or into a real relationship with the God. 19:35 You are saying even to the people around you is 19:38 I don't know how I'm going to do this but I am sorry. 19:41 Yeah. 19:42 You know we do things, 19:45 I guess I'll just say it this way. 19:46 We do things, we learn to survive, 19:49 okay, how we learn to survive 19:51 and based on things that happened to us, 19:54 that changes what we-- it changes what we believe 19:59 and that really does change how we react, okay, 20:02 and how we respond to things and 20:04 if we never find a better way to respond, 20:07 a better way to deal with those things 20:09 and we continue going on the way, 20:10 we've learned to cope. 20:12 And those things that we learn to cope with 20:15 often really hurt our-- the people closest to us 20:19 because they are close to us. 20:21 Amen. 20:22 And, you know, and I just have to say 20:25 I hurt my son incredibly. 20:29 You know, because of the anger and, 20:32 you know, you don't have to beat somebody up. 20:34 You don't have to slam people up against the wall. 20:36 You don't have to be physically violent 20:39 to completely beat somebody to a pulp. 20:42 Yeah. Okay. 20:43 It's just, you know, verbally 20:45 you can just cheer somebody apart 20:47 and, you know, all those things add up 20:53 and they compound and I just have to say that, 20:55 you know, my son was at a point 20:57 where he was learning to deal with those things himself. 21:00 And he called me, I don't really remember 21:03 why he called me right now. 21:05 You know, but the thing of that is, is for the first time in 21:09 I can't remember when we had a very long conversation 21:14 where we opened up to each other. 21:15 And I was able to apologize to him for, 21:18 you know, the things that 21:20 you know, that I have done 21:21 and the reasons why I was the way I was. 21:24 And not that it makes anything right 21:26 but at least it provides a bases of other standing up. 21:29 Where you came from. A bases for healing. 21:32 You know, this is our foundation for healing 21:34 and man, it may not happen overnight, 21:38 but my commitment to you is that we're going to heal. 21:43 You know, I just-- I so respect your journey 21:45 and watching it and watching God, 21:48 you know, soften in and what I hate about 21:51 and tell me if this isn't true 21:52 that you take two steps forward and ten back. 21:56 It is definitely, it's a give and take. 21:59 You know, I really do feel like, 22:00 you know, some days you have those, 22:02 those incredible highs, that's where you know, 22:04 you know that God is working. 22:06 You know, the things are right. 22:07 You know, you are moving forward 22:09 and the next day it's like, you know, the devil, he just, 22:13 he knows every button to push and the next day, 22:15 you know, he pushes all 30 of them, whatever it is 22:18 and you're laying on the ground 22:19 wondered what just happened. 22:20 Exactly. 22:21 And you know, I think Satan did that 22:24 with us as an organization at one point 22:26 where we were all shocked. 22:28 But it's just a matter of each of us 22:30 are really going through a healing process 22:32 in incredible ways. 22:33 I'm so grateful that you're a part of the team. 22:38 I'm so grateful to be working with you. 22:41 But more than that it's fun watching 22:43 God bring you out of hiding. 22:46 Do you know what I mean? 22:47 It's like the part of you that has tried to protect themselves 22:50 and a part of you that, 22:51 that fell like the world wasn't safer that, 22:53 you know, what if you're going to hurt me, 22:55 I'm going to hurt you worse in that part of you. 22:57 And I want to ask you, you know, is God-- 23:01 How is God becoming more real life in your life? 23:03 Because that was the whole journey too? 23:05 Yeah. 23:06 You know, it is a daily-- it's a daily, 23:10 I don't want to say battle, just it's a daily deal, right? 23:14 And some days I know what's right on, 23:18 some days I don't, you know. 23:20 And the way I think the way it's happening though 23:23 is that even on a days where, you know, 23:26 I just failed again, I just, you know, 23:29 I drive down the road, the guy cuss me off 23:31 and you know, I fly in the rage 23:33 and I'm like, okay, where'd that come from? 23:35 Yeah, don't be cutting him off you guys. 23:38 I'm just saying. 23:39 We're trying to keep his temper down. 23:43 You know, but those times is like, you know, 23:46 I had an incident where guy cut me off here about, 23:49 I think it's couple of months ago, 23:50 it's been couple of months now. 23:53 That's good. 23:55 I get a phone call, like I didn't even go into a rage. 23:58 I thought good on you. 24:00 You know, I did, you know, this guy just he almost hit me, 24:05 it was in the middle of the intersection, 24:07 he ran a red light in-- 24:09 while I'm in the intersection 24:10 and normally I've already looked, 24:14 I don't look again and something just said, 24:15 I really, you know, it was almost like 24:17 something is grabbing you, look, okay. 24:19 And here's this car coming down, 24:21 I mean I was able to hit the brakes fast enough that he, 24:24 you know, he got around me. 24:25 And I caught up with him and I was ready to 24:28 just rip him apart 24:30 and I turned around and looked and the guy just-- 24:32 it was like, his head was hanging in shame, 24:35 he didn't want to look at me. 24:36 And I'm like, what a jerk, 24:38 you're gonna tear this guy apart, 24:40 he didn't even see the red light, 24:41 it was a mistake, he feels bad, you know. 24:44 And I remember pulling down the road and just thinking, 24:47 okay, I really have to repent because in my heart 24:51 I had already, you know, ripped his head off. 24:53 Yeah. So the journey is amazing. 24:55 I would say it's fun 24:58 and I just have to tell a story 25:00 that I was really taught is, you know, 25:04 you are working in a ministry, 25:05 we're doing all of these projects. 25:07 You've really come in and given us a framework 25:10 or structure that we can work in 25:12 that is so solid, it's so cool. 25:16 But I get really sick 25:18 and I'm going on a trip, I'm afraid 25:21 because for one I've been in the hospital twice, 25:24 I was really, you know, my whole intestines 25:27 were shutting down. 25:29 I mean it was a pretty serious thing, 25:31 and you came up and said, 25:33 I've put together a anoint team with-- 25:36 we've a couple of pastors at church with the pastors 25:39 and I want to do that before you fly out. 25:41 And I thought, you know, 25:42 that is as much as in the last year 25:46 that I've seen God work with you as far as softening 25:49 and trying to kind of deal with anger 25:51 and that molest stuff and all of that junk 25:54 is then I've got this-- 25:55 I see this man of God, 25:57 literally stepping up and saying, 25:59 you know, I'm not sure how I'm going to do it 26:00 if we need to do an anointing service. 26:03 And even your prayer, it was, you know, 26:05 just a powerful thing with Randy Maxwell 26:07 and Brian Yeager and yourself 26:09 and saying the prayer and then sending me off. 26:11 And so your journey to the heart of God 26:15 is being just delightful, really delightful. 26:21 It's right, I'm not quite sure 26:23 how to respond to that but thank you. 26:25 I'm gonna open it up for questions, 26:27 see I know there is a couple of people here 26:29 that know you really well, 26:30 so I'm gonna start with your wife. 26:33 So Fran, with what Bob is kind of covered this thing. 26:38 Do you have a question or a comment? 26:39 Have you noticed his journey? 26:43 Definitely I remember when he apologized to our son 26:48 and it was about that same time 26:49 I think that apologized to me as well. 26:53 And that was really the first time I knew 26:55 about the molest that was in his background, 26:57 he hadn't shared that even with me before 27:00 and it was a very eye opening thing for me to hear that, 27:06 that was at least part of what was behind 27:09 the anger that he has dealt with all of our married life. 27:12 And I can at least meet you the question I was thinking, 27:15 I'd like to ask you. 27:17 What would you give advice to women 27:21 who are in the relationship like that with a man 27:23 who is struggling with anger that way? 27:28 Well, I think it's gonna be hard 27:31 to know unless I'm really willing to share 27:33 and I think the best thing that you can do 27:37 is probably just prove to them that you can be trusted 27:42 and the way I think to do that something that, 27:46 you know, I've seen it happen since I've been 27:49 working with True Step is that, it's nonjudgmental. 27:54 And you know, we're our own worst enemies. 27:57 We know what we've done wrong 27:59 and we know where we're deficient 28:02 and in our society it's not okay. 28:05 It's not okay for us to be unable to protect ourselves, 28:08 protect our family, and to be deficient in anyway 28:13 and especially for, you know, I think a lot of, you know, 28:20 older generation probably falling in this category, 28:23 may be a little bit more because we came from a very 28:26 can do self sufficient mindset, 28:31 so I think the nonjudgmental is very real part of it 28:34 because if we feel like we're going to be judged 28:38 again, you know, 28:40 because we're already judging ourselves. 28:43 I don't think we're going to be able to open up. 28:46 So judgment is that it's huge. 28:48 But let me just ask you this then because in a-- 28:52 I read some research 28:53 and they said in this our generation 28:56 they are the most unhappy generation ever, 29:00 and I'm like, like really, like the boomers kind of thing. 29:04 And so I read the study and I thought why is that? 29:07 why would that be? 29:08 And we're pretty much one of the first generations 29:12 as somebody said, you could do whatever you want. 29:15 You could be president, you could travel the globes, 29:18 so they're not just doing farming, 29:19 they're not just generationally doing that kind of stuff. 29:22 All of the sudden everything opens up to them 29:24 and that's a big thing to give somebody 29:26 that you either fail or succeed but you can do it 29:30 and then what you're saying is the pressure of that 29:32 on top of having something that actually robs you anyway 29:36 but the pressure of that was too much. 29:38 So not being judgmental, what would you say to man 29:41 about opening up 29:42 because how can I not judge you 29:44 when I don't know what's wrong. 29:45 Do you know what I mean like, I don't know why you are angry 29:48 but I love you and stuff. 29:50 So what would you say to man, it's like, 29:52 would you tell him, tell someone? 29:56 I'm not sure if I can answer that question. 29:58 Okay. 30:00 I'll just say for me. 30:03 I'd say the answer for me anyway 30:05 was actually taking the time 30:08 to sit down and do some reading 30:12 and let God actually get through to me 30:14 because, you know, there's other things 30:18 that enter into this, you know, I was actually never, 30:22 you know, my dad never really accepted me 30:25 or acknowledged me as a man and so I never got that as, 30:29 you know, at any point in my life, 30:32 so I think that those-- we just finally, 30:37 you know, we look at God the same way. 30:39 You know, however we see our fathers, we tend to-- 30:42 And I think this is-- I think this is actually 30:44 something that is really wrong. 30:46 We tend to allow other people to define to us who God is 30:50 rather than allowing God to define to us who He is. 30:54 And so, we project everything that we see go wrong. 30:58 So, you know, if somebody claims they're Christian 31:01 and they do something wrong to us, 31:02 then all Christians are bad, you know, God is bad too. 31:05 And so I think that's really a problem 31:09 that we have in our society. 31:10 That original father wound, this is if I-- 31:13 if I don't have that foundation 31:14 where I can be sure of that God is loving. 31:17 God cares about me. He adores me. 31:19 He not only thinks I'm confident 31:23 but He is equipping me because my father equipped me, 31:26 so if you don't have that 31:28 then you have to define that yourself. 31:30 And that's what we do it poorly. 31:31 That's right. That's a great point. 31:34 The question that you couldn't answer 31:36 if I could, if there was anybody 31:40 that's watching this program and they're saying that, 31:42 you know, I can relate to Bob 31:44 and I have that same kind of background 31:46 and I understand what he is saying 31:47 about that early molest or that damage 31:49 and you're lost in whatever, anger, porn whatever. 31:53 If you can open up to anybody, maybe just God initially 31:57 and then start opening up to your family as you heal. 32:00 It's going to bring you on a journey that will free you. 32:04 And so what's really hard to say is open up, 32:09 like in any 12 step program 32:11 and we're gonna talk about 32:12 after we come back from the break. 32:13 We're gonna talk about the one 32:14 that we put together as a ministry. 32:16 But in any 12 step program, the first kind of step is to-- 32:20 I made you powerless. 32:21 You've done the best you can 32:23 and I'm still wanted to shoot the driver next to me. 32:27 You know, I'm doing the best I can 32:29 and it's not helping me. 32:31 And so God, I'm going to finally turn it over to you 32:34 and accept you that I see a God that cares about me 32:37 and can restore me to sanity. 32:39 And all of those steps kind of our journey back to God. 32:42 And I'm watching you take all of those, Bob. 32:45 And I so trust your journey right now. 32:48 So I want to thank you for sharing that with us, 32:49 but that's the huge one. 32:51 You know, friend, great question. 32:53 I know, Bonnie, you had a question for Bob. 32:58 I'm Bonnie, and I'm from Oregon 33:00 and I really relate to Bob's story 33:03 because I struggled with anger misused to 33:06 and it seems like, 33:08 I can get up in the morning, have my devotions 33:10 and have a really nice time and I go on about my day 33:13 and next thing, you know, I come across something 33:16 and it sets me off and I'll be just gone so fast 33:20 and it makes you want to just say, well, 33:23 did I just waste my time. 33:25 Did I waste my time I spend with God 33:28 or how do you deal with that on these little things 33:32 and it's so hard to let go the anger. 33:35 Absolutely, it's tough to let go the anger. 33:37 It's also tough to let go the guilt 33:39 because we do feel guilty, you know, 33:41 because we tripped up again. 33:45 You know, for me what I'm realizing is one that 33:49 I'm not able to do it myself, okay. 33:53 I think that's one of the things 33:54 that I said I'm not smart enough, 33:55 I'm not good enough, I'm not strong enough. 33:58 And that was a really difficult realization for me to come to 34:02 because of all the things we've talked about. 34:05 And I think once you do come to that, 34:06 then where does that strength come from. 34:09 And I think the reason that it's difficult for us is 34:13 because we've learned how to respond to things and cope, 34:16 so that we can survive and we haven't truly, 34:21 we haven't truly come to a point that 34:23 we can rely on that strength of God yet. 34:25 We still want to jump over and go, let me handle this. 34:28 This one's mine, I got it. 34:30 Because we think we're better, right? 34:32 We think we're better and we're not. 34:36 And God is the only one that can give our power 34:40 and for the guilt thing, I'm still working on that, 34:44 but I do understand now that God loves me unconditionally. 34:47 That doesn't give me a ticket to go and do crazy things. 34:53 It just gives me the peace of mind 34:56 of knowing that He is going to forgive me 34:59 and He still loves me 35:00 and we're still going to take that journey together. 35:03 What's really interesting tune as you're talking. 35:06 You know, Bonnie, thank you for bringing that up. 35:07 But as you're talking, you know, 35:10 it gives you permission to count to ten too. 35:13 Do you know what I mean? 35:14 It's like, it gives me permission 35:15 through the Holy Spirit, 35:16 like you do with that drivers out, 35:17 even if it was a little bit down the road, 35:20 it's like, man, I saw his face, and I saw the fact that he-- 35:23 you know he felt bad 35:25 and I'm ready to rip his head off 35:26 and I'm sorry for that, 35:27 so it gives us permission to really change the way 35:31 we typically respond when you took the skype call. 35:34 And all the sudden now you're ministering to him 35:36 instead of yelling at him. 35:39 Yeah. Powerful stuff. 35:41 Yeah, and it's. 35:42 You know, you have to give credit to God really. 35:45 There is nothing we can do except 35:47 I think as you said open up. 35:50 But, you know, what's really interesting is 35:54 that I don't know, Bob, 35:56 if you would have been as effective with us 35:59 an organization with the content 36:01 that we have to put together, 36:03 had not you read the book Miracle. 36:06 You know, if you read the book 36:07 and I also saw that God is crazy about you. 36:10 Saw that you're forgiven. 36:11 Saw all that kind of stuff and started you on journey 36:13 because your own journey brought to the pages even 36:17 and more honest-- more as honesty 36:21 that you can give to someone else which is cool. 36:24 We're going to take a break. 36:25 We're going to have a longer closing typically 36:27 because I want to show, I want to show the viewers 36:30 what we kind of put together as an organization 36:32 because I'm so proud of it. 36:34 But I'm also proud of your journey. 36:36 Was very cool. So we're gonna be right back. 36:38 I want to show you that recovery program 36:40 we've put together and we couldn't have done that 36:44 had we not had Bob come in and just organize us somewhat. 36:48 And he doesn't do it too much because of my palm sweat, 36:50 still very frightening for me. 36:52 Stay with us, we'll be right back. |
Revised 2014-12-17