Participants: Cheri Peters (Host), Ralph Sanchez
Series Code: CLR
Program Code: CLR000117B
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00:01 The following program discusses sensitive issues
00:03 related to addictive behavior. 00:05 Parents are cautioned that some material 00:06 may be too candid for younger children. 00:13 Welcome back. 00:14 You know, when, when Ralph was talking 00:16 about just weaving the pattern with his dad 00:19 is that it felt like a volcano 00:20 and a lot of times in the domestic violence 00:23 regardless of the severity some people say, 00:25 that you have to have broken arms 00:26 and hospital runs to have violence 00:29 in if you with the family. 00:31 You do not, man, verbal abuses as intense 00:34 and definitely when you have that underline anger, 00:36 but it is like volcano that is just 00:38 you know the tensions there, 00:40 you know, it can erupt anytime and when it does, 00:42 you have that anger, you have that explosion. 00:45 So first you have the agitation 00:47 and then you have the explosion and then apologies, 00:49 then everybody tries to make it right again, 00:51 and the gilt and the shame 00:52 and then that agitation builds up 00:54 and its just conscious psycho. 00:56 And you saw that as a kid, 00:58 you intervened, not intervened 01:00 but it kind of God just put a little bit of I-- 01:04 kind of truce with you and you dad. 01:06 So open up that relationship 01:08 and you both really are dying for that. 01:12 Your dad not knowing to how to get it 01:14 and you even making a valve at one point 01:16 that I'm not gonna open myself up to him, 01:19 realizing that you gonna have to do that somewhat. 01:23 Yeah, I mean. 01:24 We're gonna have a relationship with somebody 01:26 you loved with, you can it, 01:27 either not be there or show yourself down 01:30 which is good is, is as good is living in some extreme cases 01:33 or you gonna have to venerable. 01:36 And so God, so thankful that God, 01:38 there is a God, "A" and "B" that is a personal God 01:41 because without Him I've no doubt 01:43 this dysfunction never would have been solvable. 01:46 So, with that situation with your dad and the fact 01:49 that you intervened with him 01:51 or that God intervened with two of you, 01:54 so did it ever affect you 01:55 and any relationships you had apart from mom and dad? 01:59 Yeah. 02:00 Then I mentioned before that I had normally had I said 02:03 I will never do that in a kind of general way 02:06 but I had very specifically outlined 02:08 how my life would go. 02:09 Yeah. You even acted it out. 02:11 You know, to me when you said that I, 02:13 that's what I-- when you said that I thought 02:15 you know what, you didn't have the stories 02:18 where people had arms broken or the hospital, 02:20 but for get to act out, 02:22 I'm gonna actually practice not doing that 02:24 because I don't want to be that. 02:27 That showed me the level of abuse was pretty intend. 02:31 Yeah. 02:32 And ultimately the effective that had on me was intense 02:35 and not to go too far backwards here, 02:38 as I tried to work this out with my brothers 02:40 as recently as a couple three years ago, 02:42 before I confronted my dad on this-- 02:49 they were, you know 02:50 the youngest brother was in diapers. 02:52 I mean, he may or not may or not have remembered. 02:55 My second to the youngest brother 02:56 says he has vague memories 02:58 but he never realized really how intense it was. 03:00 So I don't know how much of blocking there was 03:03 in this with them and how much was just age related 03:05 where they just not remembered-- 03:06 They were too young. 03:08 With lot of people say, especially for a man is, 03:13 they intellectually lock off 03:14 close their heart down solid that you, 03:17 you are not gonna get to me 03:18 but then I don't know how to let you get to me 03:20 and I don't know how to feel truly joy, 03:22 laughter, love, any that kind of stuff 03:24 because I'm locked down and had been early. 03:27 And that intellectually locked heart. 03:29 I can go in my head 03:30 but I can't go in my heart or my feelings. 03:32 Which is exactly spells out the way I dealt with my dad 03:36 from the time I was born until just-- 03:37 Just locked down. 03:38 Just locked down and you know, I talked to him and he, 03:42 you know, told me what he wanted me to do 03:44 more the longer I'd obey 03:45 I mean we had no relationship whatsoever. 03:48 Well, you know, I don't want to say value 03:52 because for me that's a big word 03:54 and that has got implied in it, but I promised myself, 03:58 I was just never gonna act like that 04:00 and I don't care and I imagine all the worst things 04:03 you know that a 12, 13, 14, 15 I can imagine, 04:06 that's are some pretty terrible things actually that turns out. 04:09 If that happens and this is how I will handle it, 04:12 but whatever happens I will never bring 04:14 that home and take out. 04:15 I was always taken it out on the people 04:17 who are doing at me, whatever. 04:20 Well, not my family. 04:21 Not my family. Not my wife. 04:23 And then I turned right around and got married 04:26 and about three years into the marriage 04:28 I found myself doing exactly the same thing 04:30 that my dad was doing. 04:32 And I'm a not so sure, was the same exact pattern 04:36 but then again does it really matters? 04:37 Dad was bringing it home from work. 04:41 I'm not sure where it was coming from with me, 04:42 I think it was actually frustration 04:44 with a growing relationship, you know, 04:48 probably some very normal stuff going on there. 04:50 And the husband and the wife 04:51 are getting to know each other and all the real lives. 04:54 But you know we talked about earlier about that 04:57 we don't have a tool kit. 04:58 I don't have anything in my tool kit. 05:00 So you know, I'm established in this new family 05:02 but all I know was what I know. 05:05 Yeah. And you know, I even kind-- 05:08 as I looked back it didn't realize I was doing this, 05:10 but actually did kind of reach out to help 05:13 for help to some family members, 05:15 one was my brother which I don't think 05:16 was crazy, but one was my dad. 05:21 Even you said that I thought, you what, you're kidding me, 05:25 but you know what, who do we return to, 05:28 who do I say, you know what, I'm in trouble I think? 05:31 Yeah. 05:32 I'm in trouble, and I could feel the anger welling up 05:34 and this before I ever raised a hand on my wife 05:38 and I could feel welling up and I just didn't know I had-- 05:41 like you say I had no tools, I call vocabulary, 05:43 had no vocabulary to deal with this at all. 05:46 And I can feel this thing happening to me 05:48 and it was so powerful 05:50 and so and burdened me that I was just closed. 05:54 I wasn't even naive becoming the evil monster 05:59 I was going to secondary college 06:00 and naive to the whole thing. 06:02 I really needed to re-tell it to an object for party, 06:05 really badly right then and there. 06:07 Even if it was the pastor I need to shade all shame on it 06:11 right then and there just go say, I got this think, 06:14 I think I gonna do something bad 06:16 and I don't want to do. 06:18 And I need some help. 06:19 We need some help. I need help. 06:21 Then we need help. And-- 06:23 But instead you decided to have help. 06:25 I really was left on my own so 06:27 and I don't want to make sound like 06:28 it was everybody else fault. 06:29 What I learn here ended up dealing it. 06:31 So but in the end, I ended up, you know pushing my wife, 06:38 I don't I never you know punched her, 06:42 kicked her or threw on the ground and kicked her. 06:45 But was and-- Pushing, yelling, verbal abuse? 06:48 Yes. Okay. 06:49 And when you, I mean real bad 06:51 and when you brawl at somebody at full speed like a lion back 06:54 or even I'm not dealt like one still. 06:56 I mean, there is a lot of inertia there 06:59 and there is three or four times 07:01 when I have ran at her full speed 07:02 I was just so anger and I shout on her. 07:05 And you know, you push somebody hard 07:07 when they come off of their feet 07:08 fly across half of a room and hit the wall. 07:12 They are bruised. 07:14 They are messed up just as surely 07:15 if I taken my fist in her. 07:17 There is no difference, maybe worse. 07:19 I remember one time, that we were into it 07:24 and my wife at the time, she is no longer my wife, 07:28 my wife at the time wasn't my mom, 07:32 you know she was not an unable person 07:34 but maybe she was, but not in the same way my mom was. 07:36 She was gonna standup to you. 07:38 Yeah, she was gonna take any odd thing 07:40 that comes from me or anybody else. 07:43 But you know, longer I think was a good think, 07:46 but at the moment in those movements 07:48 it was peeled to the fire. 07:50 One time I ran into the bathroom 07:52 during this thing and pushed her so hard, 07:55 she was standing in front of sink 07:56 and she flew across the bathroom into the tub. 07:59 I think there was probably 08:00 the second or third time that that happened 08:03 and immediately after she landed in the tub 08:05 the way she landed she was all contorted 08:08 and I stopped and I looked at her 08:10 and for the first time I became aware 08:13 of just how lucky I would be, if she haven't broken her neck. 08:19 Exactly. I could have broken my neck. 08:21 Easily could have broken-- 08:23 more easy than if I pondering her with my close fist. 08:26 I could have hurt way worse doing that. 08:29 And that probably was the beginning 08:31 of some kind of sobriety on this from me, 08:34 just the beginning. 08:35 You know, what's really interesting 08:37 and I've gotten to just say this-- 08:39 because up until that point 08:42 for most people in those situations, 08:45 most people in domestic violence 08:46 is especially the perpetrator is it feels like 08:50 why do you keep pushing me like that? 08:52 Why do you keep making me do this? 08:55 And talk about that because that's every real 08:58 it's like I wouldn't do this if you wouldn't do this. 09:01 If you didn't-- 09:03 Yeah, again I had and I apologies her. 09:08 I come across as I know it all and this bit really 09:10 by the time I was 15 09:11 I had this all these issues psychologically analyzed. 09:17 There wasn't an language, I think I was thinking that 09:19 and that was my excuse after the effect. 09:22 Because after these things happened, 09:23 I literally, physically felt ill. 09:26 You would be sick? 09:27 I mean sick, physically sick to my stomach. 09:31 And you know some of that was probably normal 09:35 from fire of fight mechanism they goes on. 09:38 But I think it was also a moral issue 09:40 and it was disgusting that would be weird. 09:44 And was disgustedly-- 09:45 And I can't believe I'm every thing 09:47 that I said I wasn't gonna be. 09:51 There is something right there that kind of came up, 09:54 it's like I remember what it was 09:55 maybe it will come back to me, but yeah-- 09:58 So she is lying in the tub, 09:59 you are seeing that realize the intensity of that. 10:02 And I just want to ask 10:03 because the children involved yeah? 10:05 Not yeah. Okay. 10:06 Now after, I wanted to know 10:09 when precious daughter was born I think, 10:14 and I could be corrected on this 10:16 and I'll happily accept it 10:17 but I think that the physical violence was subsiding or over 10:23 but the verbal damage was still going on. 10:27 So you are child grew up in the same-- 10:29 In the form, the verbal damage is going on 10:31 and I was still physically violent 10:33 because I was picking stuff up and I mean, its felon-- 10:36 how many felons he go through in six months 10:38 for you realize there's a problem. 10:39 Yeah. 10:40 So again another felon flies against the wall 10:42 and my little daughter, still on diaper, 10:44 she is probably two, comes down 10:46 and she sticks her hands on her waist 10:48 and she goes dad, what's going on? 10:50 You know, what I mean 10:51 and my wife and I had a terrible verbal fight. 10:55 She had gone out in a response 10:57 the all that I had phone in my hand 10:59 and I struck it against the wall 11:01 and there went another phone. 11:02 And that's you know when she had that response. 11:05 I remember at three, so sad that I couldn't say my mom, 11:10 I thought she was gonna be killed, 11:12 and I at three years old wanting to know 11:14 how I could stop them from killing each other. 11:17 And it just a horrible thing as a child to just say, 11:21 I have no power to stop these adults 11:25 from literally killing each other. 11:28 This was the hugest fear 11:29 between with my mother and father. 11:32 I lived this nightmare to be, 11:36 which was one with somebody 11:37 on a really, really hurt the other person physically. 11:40 And now it's in your own home 11:41 and that's how you're living. 11:42 So how do you-- where does any kind of sanity come in? 11:48 Because right now you're doing the same thing, 11:50 when you come out the door you guy all look good. 11:52 Because even the people you worked with 11:54 and I have heard someone says I had no idea 11:57 and they always look so normal. 11:59 Yeah. 12:00 Because you did the same thing that your folks did. 12:02 Yep. I was say so-- 12:04 Same thing that every home 12:06 that is dealing with domestic violence tends to do 12:09 that every level, I have seen people 12:11 that have everything that have all other riches, 12:14 all other stuff, all of the toys 12:16 and then I have seen people in poverty 12:18 and they all tried to do same thing 12:20 when they walk at the door, lets look normal. 12:23 I had a job for a while 12:24 where I went door to door fixing people's exercise gear. 12:28 And I could go into home, 12:30 and I could feel that there is domestic violence 12:33 going on in that home. 12:34 So there is order and usually its more than just 12:38 you know wife gets once in her whole upset 12:41 with husband and slaps 12:42 and we're talking pattern domestic violence. 12:46 Exactly. 12:47 There is something in the air. 12:49 And there is like a feel, because I grew up with it 12:52 and I lived it and I became a perpetrator 12:55 and did my part to perpetuate that social evil and so-- 13:02 So now where does help come? 13:06 Help comes finally when-- 13:09 For you where did it come? When Cathy and Emily laughed. 13:13 They said we are done? Yeah. 13:14 To save ourselves, to redeem anything 13:17 as far as our lives, we have to take. 13:19 Yeah. 13:20 Cathy was not gonna put up, again she was not my mom. 13:24 I think she was more my dad, 13:25 if you want to do psycho analysis then, 13:27 I think I married my dad. 13:29 But she was not unable-- That's all another show, Ralph. 13:31 It's a whole other show but it also walks in to 13:33 what we are talking about and think a little too. 13:36 So personality wise. 13:37 Personality wise, she was very contentious 13:40 which in this case worked out for everybody, 13:44 especially for her to begin with. 13:46 She worked with my brother and sister-in-law to 13:51 I got to get out from here what I'm gonna do. 13:54 I need a safe place. 13:55 My brother is a physician so he deals with this stuff sadly 13:57 frequently so he had mechanism, they found a shelter, 14:00 want a shelter for them to go to in another state 14:03 and they went. 14:05 It took me according to the chase a little bit, 14:08 two weeks to admit what was going on. 14:09 So I come back from a bicycle race 14:12 on a Sunday afternoon and nobody is home. 14:13 I can't think, well, that's not high unusual, 14:15 they often on the warm Saturday, go off 14:17 and do what they really want to do. 14:20 Evening comes its 9, 10, 11, 12 nobody comes home. 14:22 No calls? 14:23 I'm thinking, shall I call my in-laws 14:26 and see if she is over there across town. 14:29 And so I just let it rest. 14:31 By 3'o clock in the morning, 14:32 I wakeup in the middle of the night 14:34 and they are never gone all night, 14:36 there's not without me knowing where they up. 14:39 And so I'm in deep in my heart, I know what's going on, 14:44 but I'm denying even to myself. 14:46 And a whole another day goes by I go to work, 14:49 whole another day goes by and I get call from my dad, 14:53 my dad confronts me on this issue. 14:57 Isn't this some irony in that? Yeah. 15:00 Okay, I'm just saying. 15:02 I think that's a great irony that from ways 15:05 that we probably won't have time to even get to here. 15:09 Later that evening my uncle Rolf calls me, 15:13 my dad's oldest brother. 15:15 And he doesn't confronts me, but he never calls me 15:17 not that we don't like each other 15:19 but he just doesn't call me now that I'm adult for some reason 15:21 I'm no fun anymore or something. 15:23 And he just asks me, how I'm doing? 15:25 I'm saying, okay. 15:26 Lying to him and to myself. 15:28 And crossing my fingers 15:29 that somehow what's happening isn't happening. 15:33 The next day my brother, my physician brother 15:36 who has this-- he and his wife have assisted Cathy 15:39 and Emily to escape their circumstances. 15:42 And he calls me up and he hangs on the phone 15:46 saying nothing other than this is damn, 15:49 how are you doing? 15:51 He is waiting for me, you know to talk to the stuff 15:53 and so we be beat around this bush for a few minutes 15:56 and he just tells me at one point, 15:57 he says, look Ralph, I deal this all the time, 16:01 every week I deal with this and he says, 16:03 legally I am obligated to report 16:05 this stuff every time it happens. 16:08 And so when he says that 16:11 reality really begins to wash up. 16:13 I realize this isn't a mind game, 16:15 this is way bigger than OG 16:18 what people in the church kind of think about it 16:20 and this is way bigger than all that, 16:22 that's I'm not very at 16:24 but its seeping as just this is a big deal. 16:28 And it's a big deal and its not 16:30 that I didn't realize it was big deal, 16:32 but it's bigger than the deals 16:34 I have that were bigger than it, 16:35 that's how the people perceive me 16:37 and reputation and all that. 16:38 Exactly. 16:39 And what's really interesting 16:40 that when your living in that day in and day out, 16:42 you can, that is your norm 16:45 so it began so look like its okay, not okay really, 16:50 but it doesn't feel life threatening, 16:53 it doesn't feel so abnormal 16:55 and then when your brother said, 16:56 is you like you know, this was wrong. 16:59 Yeah, so he just laid it right smack on the line. 17:03 I think even my mother call me at one point, 17:08 so but I think so text the better part of a have a week 17:12 or almost full week from neither 17:14 finally get to the point, 17:15 where I'm telling myself this is what's happened 17:18 and it takes a day from you really simulate 17:20 that and move on to now what, 17:24 if anything now where are they gone forever. 17:27 And so now that its-- the cats are out of the bag-- 17:29 Because in with perpetrator 17:32 and what's really interesting in my own life 17:34 because I have been involved in situations with 17:37 and there was domestic violence is that 17:39 you wanted to say honestly from your heart I'm sorry, 17:43 I want to it again. 17:44 So that's first reaction comes up 17:46 is like I will change this time, I will get some help, 17:49 I will do all that kind of stuff. 17:51 But in you gut you know that maybe this is too late. 17:53 Oh yeah. 17:56 I'm not gonna be able to redeemed this. 17:57 That's right. 17:58 And that again take another couple of days, 18:01 they were Cathy and Emily were probably gone at least a month. 18:06 And it took me another few days to get to the point 18:11 where I was brooding past, 18:13 the feelings of urge all just do this apology or something. 18:17 I did, I still wasn't really aware of 18:22 the consequences of these actions 18:24 because I've never seen a consequences of 18:26 the actions before. 18:28 Right. And your dad-- your mom stayed. 18:31 She never left, she never took off. 18:33 So you know for you to have that woman 18:35 that says you know what, I'm done, I really I'm done. 18:39 I may love you but I have to take my child and leave? 18:43 Correct. 18:44 So it takes other few days to get to the point 18:47 where I'm-- now since I cant figure out 18:49 what do we do from here I called by brother back 18:53 and I say, so what do we do from here? 18:56 And he said, I'm not sure he goes what do you want? 19:01 Took me another day to process that. 19:05 I really I love my family, 19:09 I was weird to be a family guy and really, 19:12 the realization that my family 19:14 could be taken away from me in an instant 19:18 and then to realize I'm the one who did that was, 19:23 was huge I mean that really, 19:25 it helped me to understand in a way I never could 19:28 I don't think otherwise probably unfortunately, 19:33 that how valuable that was to me. 19:36 And it took me several days to really evaluate 19:39 just how valuable is this. 19:41 Incredible. 19:42 What is this really meant to me? 19:43 You know, we usually break for question 19:45 and I'm gonna keep it here from in it 19:47 because I just want to-- you know everything 19:50 that you said I will never do, I will never be, 19:54 now you're sitting there in the quite of your house 19:58 by yourself saying I'm all that. 20:01 Where do you go for help? 20:02 I mean, how do you find the hand of God again? 20:05 How do you, how do you get into safe place for yourself? 20:09 Realizing at that time, that the chances of my never-- 20:16 my wife or my daughter never being married to me again, 20:21 realizing that I could easily now take 20:24 that as forgone conclusion that I would be lucky 20:26 if I was even able to communicate with them again. 20:30 Because they could get restraining order? 20:31 That whole thing. 20:33 They could make sure that you never seen them again. 20:34 That's right. 20:35 And they had all of oddity, 20:37 they had evidence, they had everything. 20:41 But since anger had been part of my life 20:44 uncertainly trail that even at school 20:46 I got busted a few times, I would just blow up, 20:49 I would punch guys that were twice my size 20:52 and some times they would punch back 20:53 and that wasn't pretty either. 20:54 But just the fact, 20:55 this is my anger would get out of control, 20:58 so fast it was something I troubled with my whole life. 21:02 And so I, it was another stepping stone 21:06 and anger has been-- I can go back in another program 21:09 and show you literally like a ladder 21:11 this is been a life time of growth. 21:14 Very miserable one in this regard 21:16 but at least there is growth. 21:17 And I began to work around, I began to wonder 21:23 do I go to a psychologist or a therapist. 21:25 Well, I stumbled into a place 21:27 they called Antler's we were willing 21:30 and they had a 12 step program there. 21:33 They mostly deal with alcoholics 21:34 but they also took in people 21:36 who were convicted domestic violence perpetrators 21:39 and I went and I joined that group 21:43 and that's how I began 21:46 to tangibly take care of specifically 21:49 with no borrows hold my anger issue. 21:52 So you know what, 21:53 always we have two programs to cover this but we don't. 21:57 So in the time that we have left 21:59 which is only like eight minutes or so, 22:02 what did you learn in that group? 22:03 What, you know, what was life changing for you? 22:06 Because change in the very core who you are, 22:09 from the time you were little. 22:11 And confronting what you became 22:13 and then coming out of that. 22:14 How did that happen? 22:18 It wasn't really, it was not therapy, 22:20 it wasn't psycho therapy, it was you know, 22:23 get to hit people when your mad or you are going to jail. 22:25 It was that kind of therapy. 22:26 Take go cave? Can I write that down? 22:29 Yeah, in my group I was the only one 22:31 that was there voluntary. 22:34 And I got there and I don't know 22:35 what I thought you know, 22:37 it made I'm somewhat naive in the world, 22:38 especially some of the programs are listened to of yours 22:41 I realize in some way that had lucky 22:42 but sadly some of the people 22:44 I've been responsible for don't have it so lucky. 22:48 And in that group 22:50 we used a technique called rational emotive therapy. 22:53 And I was been long time since I have gone through strictly, 22:56 but the bottom line is, its training, 23:00 its child-- I mean children should have this figure out, 23:02 now joining when you get mad you don't punch people, 23:05 you what I mean, those people get this figured out sooner 23:09 but this was what we learnt to do. 23:13 So let me just-- 23:14 You know brought up earlier 23:16 that the idea that I'm asking myself, 23:19 this violence happens 23:20 and I wish you would stop making me mad 23:23 and in rational emotive therapy we learn specifically 23:26 that we are the ones that decide how we are gonna react. 23:29 Nobody makes me mad, nobody makes me happy. 23:32 Right. 23:33 And so that's one of the first thing 23:35 and what I wanted to say before we go that 23:37 because I really love 23:39 that approach to special domestic violence. 23:41 But if you want to go just on the biblical sense 23:44 what they say is, take every thought captive. 23:47 And so it's the same kind of thing is what you are thinking, 23:49 what are your lies, what are your errors, 23:52 what moves you? 23:54 And so with somebody that's strikes have violently is like 23:57 if they didn't do that, I wouldn't be mad 23:59 and what they do is making me mad. 24:01 So the first lie is, that nobody can make you mad. 24:03 That's right. 24:04 What are some other lies 24:06 that they were teaching you in that group? 24:10 Well, that was the biggest and most important one, 24:12 because it was interesting every time 24:14 the facilitator would throw that out, 24:17 Alvy was coming back with 24:19 and she is spelling it out for us, you know. 24:21 Nobody makes you feels this way 24:23 and they are going, well, 24:25 for me it's when she or he does this or that the other thing. 24:28 That's just makes me mad. 24:29 You know what I mean and we go through weeks. 24:31 Than I went through four months of this, 24:33 you know, four days a week 24:35 and we were three months into this 24:37 and these same individuals were going. 24:39 This just makes me mad, its make me made, 24:42 that mantra it, he, she makes me mad. 24:46 That little child makes me mad 24:48 when mom was in there for hurting her baby. 24:51 But my baby does this it makes me mad 24:53 and your looking at that person you're kind of going 24:55 they actually believe that. 24:56 Right. 24:58 And I'm thinking I actually believe that. 25:01 But, and being able 25:02 the most incredible moment for God to do for any of us 25:06 is to say that is not true. 25:09 You can, you know, 25:11 you can respond in a different way, 25:14 you take a breath and respond in a different way. 25:17 You can counter ten, you can walkout 25:19 and come back but to actually get mad 25:21 and physically throw something or hit someone, 25:24 you can't do. 25:25 It's not okay. It's not okay. 25:28 And here is the wonderful thing about 25:29 during things God's way is its freeing. 25:33 In what sense? 25:35 That I'm not driven, nobody dictates to me 25:39 how I'm gonna feel, I get to choose that. 25:41 Amen. 25:42 So you so, they are out of your life now 25:47 and I know that credits in some sadness for you, 25:52 some heartbreak for you. 25:54 But how are you different now? 25:58 Well, I want to share this, 26:03 because I think so far and I'm gonna continue 26:07 to learn my lesson from all of this, 26:10 but so far, I mean, we were married 26:12 for another 15 years after that 26:15 and one thing I want to say is, 26:18 I asked her several times over the next several years 26:21 after we reconciled and got back together. 26:23 She wouldn't even think about coming 26:24 until I had finished this program 26:26 and the paper was in my hand. 26:27 And mutually visited the facilitator 26:30 who was a trained psycho therapist. 26:34 It wasn't easy to get my wife and daughter back, 26:36 it was not easy at all. 26:38 At any moment I could have change 26:40 just because she fell like it 26:41 and she had every right to do that. 26:45 But 15 years after that, than the marriage dissolves 26:50 and this is what I want to say. 26:54 I don't think that I could dictate myself here, 26:57 but I don't think that she left primarily because of us. 26:59 We-- our relationship was a little distant 27:02 but there wasn't anything real in my estimation 27:05 really bad about it. 27:08 But there wasn't anything really good about it either. 27:09 It was just kind of there and I was traveling a lot. 27:14 But you know what, I think and the more I think about it, 27:19 the more I believe you, 27:21 that we could still be together, 27:23 if I had laid a foundation that she could have gone 27:27 through all the stuff she was going through 27:28 and she left. 27:31 And felt there was one safe place 27:34 and that place was her home and her husband. 27:37 And so, what you are saying is that 27:41 the damage that was done in your relationship 27:45 they never felt like safe place for her, 27:47 their was alway-- 27:48 Yeah, no doubt. 27:49 And I believe that she forgave me. 27:52 You know, I really believe that and when she forgave me, 27:55 I then ask forgiveness from God. 27:58 So all the forgiveness has done but so as the damage. 28:02 And that damage, I mean, it's no less than 28:04 that I build a high rise building 28:06 and I forget to take care of one little corner over their 28:09 and it exposed to little more water, 28:11 the building may still last 20 or 30 years 28:13 but it was meant to last to 100 years. 28:16 But that one tiny little piece of the foundation erodes, 28:19 and it erodes and it erodes 28:21 without anybody getting there with a hammer 28:22 really knocking it around it 28:23 just the foundation begins to come lose. 28:27 And even with all people doing their best 28:30 that they could my wife, me doing the best 28:32 that we could with the pressure life puts upon us 28:35 and the challenge of being married, 28:37 still there was no foundation. 28:39 I corroded the foundation 28:41 when I brought violence into the home, 28:43 that's what I wanted to make clear. 28:44 I corroded that marriage relationship 28:47 permanently by bringing violence into the home. 28:50 You know, we are going to go out on a break 28:54 and come back to the close 28:55 and I would like you to come back 28:59 and you kind of talk to the guy out that, 29:02 that says you know I don't think she is making me mad, 29:04 they are making me mad and talk to him. 29:07 Because it is everyday that you bring damage into home 29:10 and you may not go back to fix it, 29:12 you may not be able to go back fix it, 29:14 even in your healing, 29:16 even in the fact that you know 29:18 that there is a God that forgives you and loves you 29:20 and Ralph, I know that about you, 29:22 you know you want to stand up as a man of God 29:24 and you want really do the right thing, 29:27 but he can fix us, it was always-- 29:29 there was too much that happened. 29:32 We will be right back, 29:34 if you are in that situation now, 29:36 I'm gonna kind of tell, specially women 29:38 a few things about keeping themselves safe 29:41 and if it's a woman that's your abuser 29:42 I will tell the guys and then-- 29:44 I'm gonna have Ralph 29:46 just give you some advice maybe. 29:48 We'll be right back, stay with us. |
Revised 2015-01-01