Participants: Cheri Peters (Host), Janelle & Donald Owen
Series Code: CLR
Program Code: CLR000134A
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00:01 The following program discusses sensitive issues
00:03 related to addictive behavior. 00:05 Parents are cautioned that some material 00:06 may be too candid for younger children. 00:11 Over the years everything has changed 00:13 especially who we are sexually 00:15 and even the porn industry and all that kind of stuff 00:18 and we're gonna cover that with our guests today. 00:21 So welcome to Celebrating Life in Recovery. 00:23 I'm Cheri your host, come join us in the cafe. 00:25 It is gonna be an eye opener but so cool. 00:56 I am so... 00:57 this program today is gonna be intense for some 01:00 but it is one of my favorite things 01:01 to talk about who we are, 01:03 who we are in every aspect of our lives. 01:05 And I want to say 01:07 the book that we're doing all season long 01:09 is Victory in Jesus. 01:11 And the reason I chose this book for this season 01:13 is because some of us don't realize 01:16 that we are saved by grace and grace alone. 01:19 Everything that I respond to the love of God, 01:22 every time I want to change, every time I want to do better, 01:25 every time I want to be better, 01:26 every time I want to be all that. 01:28 It's not because I'm trying to earn God's affection. 01:31 I'm trying to be good enough because, man, I don't think 01:34 I'll ever make good enough in the eyes of God, 01:37 but He is crazy about me. 01:40 Do you know what I mean, He's crazy about you. 01:42 And so we're gonna talk today about an experience 01:45 that I had first before I introduce our guests 01:47 and I love these guys. 01:49 But another book that we're gonna talk about this season 01:52 is God is Crazy about You. 01:54 And the reason I wrote that 01:56 is because when I first got into recovery, 01:58 every single time I turned around, 02:00 I saw different aspects of God that was amazing. 02:02 And at one point I get called to go to Thailand 02:06 to rescue kids from the sex trade industry. 02:08 And I'm thinking, you know what, 02:10 I can't wait because some of these kids are young, 02:13 like as young as two, I mean just tiny kids 02:17 and so we raise funds and we're gonna go 02:19 and we're gonna sponsor them 02:20 and get them into safe houses and schools. 02:22 And then I get kind of a threat from the Thai mafia. 02:25 I don't even know how do they know me, 02:27 but they threatened to gut me. 02:28 I'm gonna gut you, whip your intestines out 02:32 and hang them in the back of the club. 02:34 And I thought "Oh, this is gonna be good." 02:36 Because we're getting people 02:39 that nervous about us coming over. 02:42 I can't wait to see what God does. 02:43 Well, my husband didn't take it the same way. 02:46 He's like, "They're gonna gut you? 02:48 Wait a minute, you're not going and you're not taking Jacky" 02:51 which was my daughter. 02:52 So, I said, you know, I have to go 02:55 because I think it's gonna, you know, 02:56 I just, I just have to go 02:58 because some people are so lost in their life, 03:02 in their addiction, they're sold off really young 03:04 and they really have no idea that there's a God in heaven 03:07 that cannot only change their life, 03:08 but they have a plan for them. 03:10 Literally, they will at one point heal so significantly 03:16 that they will delight to be in their own skin 03:18 and somebody's got to tell him, I got to tell him. 03:21 So and so Brad is trying to talk me out of it, I said, 03:24 you know, I love you but I have to go 03:26 and then someone says 03:28 you're liable for anybody you take, 03:30 I'm taking these, you know, kids with me 03:32 and one girl had been viciously raped as a kid 03:35 and she's healing and she said, you know, Cheri, I have to go. 03:37 I think this is part of my healing. 03:39 So I had to get her mom to sign a death release form. 03:43 If she gets killed, you can't sue me, you know. 03:46 And so her mom is like you want me to sign what, 03:49 and it was clearly stated 03:50 this is what they've threatened us. 03:53 And if she goes you have to release a liability with us, 03:56 so we get there 03:58 and we are talking to a number of kids you know. 04:01 We one time I met with 140 prostitutes, 04:06 kids that are sold at night in the industry. 04:09 I went to the red light district 04:10 and 70 percent were men 04:12 that were buying and selling these kids, 04:13 30 percent were women. 04:15 So they were men and women. 04:16 It was just one of the most intense thing 04:19 and we did get all these threats 04:21 and people were trying to scare us in our face 04:23 and all that kind of stuff. 04:24 And at one point I go to this... 04:28 It was probably 04:30 where children are bought and sold more 04:33 and so a lot of tourists don't go. 04:35 In some of these countries, 04:38 red light district people go and just take pictures. 04:40 It's like, it's so bizarre to me to see tourist say, 04:44 "Can I take a picture in front of a prostitute 04:46 or in front of this building or whatever." 04:48 But in this particular area there was none of that 04:50 because it was... 04:52 These were small children 04:53 and a lot of people don't want to be seen in that environment. 04:55 So we end up getting there late at night. 04:58 I'm realizing this is probably that that we are so unsafe, 05:01 we are so much in danger. 05:04 I really put everybody's life at risk 05:06 and I start praying, "God, I'm so sorry." 05:08 And I was really frightened not only for myself 05:11 but for them at that moment, and I don't know where... 05:14 We were staying at this place 05:16 called Fountain of Life Ministries. 05:17 I don't know where it's at. 05:19 There's not street lights in these small villages. 05:21 I mean it was just like it was, I was just afraid, 05:24 and I start praying, 05:26 and all the sudden this woman comes out. 05:27 She's 20 or so and she comes out this girl 05:30 and she just starts going like this. 05:32 I don't speak Thai. 05:33 She's going like this 05:35 and she's walking backwards into this like alleyway 05:38 and I'm thinking there's no way, 05:39 they're gonna find us cut up in there, right. 05:42 And I'm thinking, I'm not following her, 05:43 everybody is looking at me for direction, 05:45 and I just felt somehow this kind of pressure 05:49 pushing us in one direction and we followed her 05:52 for a block and a half, I mean into nothing. 05:55 I mean it was so ridiculous into this nothing. 05:58 And as we turned the corner, there was a sign that said, 06:01 Fountain of Life Ministries. 06:03 And I almost started crying. 06:04 You know when you're so relieved, 06:06 it's like all this and you're just so relieved, 06:08 I almost started crying and I turned around 06:10 just to say thank you so much and she was gone 06:15 and I thought shut up, shut up. 06:17 What if God is real? What if He intervenes? 06:21 What if He does care about us? 06:23 And no matter where we are in that journey in our life, 06:28 how twisted things have gotten, and when I talk about twisted, 06:32 there was temples in this area 06:35 that they would bring 11 year olds from Burma 06:38 to sleep with people that were dying of AIDS, 06:40 and the theory was that if you sleep with a virgin, 06:43 you could be healed from AIDS. 06:44 These kids were riddled with AIDS 06:46 by the time they died at 15, 16 years old. 06:49 So when I talk about darkness and all that kind of stuff, 06:51 it was so crazy, 06:53 but the reason I wanted to start with that story, 06:55 for one, just the grace of God that says, 06:58 you know what, I am right there with you. 07:01 And if you give me half a chance, 07:03 whether you are buying or selling, 07:05 I will change your life, and I will bring healing. 07:07 But pornography and all that kind of stuff 07:10 from the time I first started years ago to now, 07:13 it's a different game. 07:15 It's a different game. 07:16 And so I want to introduce, you know, Donald and Janelle. 07:20 Thank you for joining us on the program, 07:22 and we're gonna, we're gonna talk about your story 07:24 and all that, but I want to say, 07:26 that now years later 07:29 people are hooking up and they don't... 07:32 They're sexually involved 07:34 and some folks feel like I can jump into porn 07:38 and be famous and it's just a way into this world 07:41 or, you know, it's so prevalent 07:44 that it's not anything to actually be ashamed of. 07:47 And Jeremiah says, you know what? 07:49 There are some of us that have forgotten even how to blush. 07:53 And so on that note, I want to introduce you 07:55 and don't jump right into that but who are you, 07:57 where did you come from? 07:59 And, Donald, can we start with you? 08:00 Sure, sure, my name is of course, Donald Owen. 08:02 I'm raised in Michigan, raised in a sort of 08:06 floundering Christian family Baptist here and there, 08:10 it's kind of traveling around... 08:12 Do you want me to get into the whole... 08:14 or we start with pornography, looking at pornography. 08:17 Yeah, because with you, 08:19 I mean from the time you were little 08:20 that was just part of your world. 08:23 Yeah, about the age of let's say, 13, 08:25 14 my brother like to take things from stores 08:29 and he took about 11 magazines, adult magazines and came back 08:33 to our little Chevy in the backyard. 08:35 It was probably about seven or eight of us young boys 08:36 and we were, you know, flipping open magazines 08:38 and seeing some stuff that was really degrading 08:41 and very shameful, just amazing. 08:44 But that's not what you thought at the time. 08:46 No, no. 08:47 And even, even what's really interesting 08:49 because I've been brought into elementary schools 08:51 where people are sharing on their, 08:53 on their smartphones images and things and laughing 08:57 and even doing kind of, you know, 09:00 like they're going to search the internet 09:02 as far as cartoon characters 09:04 and come up with some pretty twisted stuff. 09:06 Oh, yeah. Yeah. 09:08 And it's a game initially. 09:10 And I also remember two that at age, 09:13 popular music television came out 09:16 and there was just, 09:17 you could see the racy kind of images 09:20 and things that really attracted. 09:21 For me, young man, it really attracted me 09:24 and it really hooked me. 09:25 You were hijacked. Oh, yeah. 09:27 Yeah, you know images 09:28 that plant in the back of your brain. 09:30 They stay there and you just want more and more 09:32 and actually had a neighbor that I was really addicted to. 09:36 I mean, I was so on like in lust with this woman, 09:38 I just did everything I wanted to be with her, 09:41 and she's a married woman, I was a kid, I didn't know. 09:45 I just, I was addicted. Yeah, heavily. 09:47 Just everything I thought of her constantly. 09:50 So what's really interesting is because, you know, 09:53 I'm talking about another country 09:55 and see the areas but you're talking about a... 09:58 Neighborhood A neighborhood. 10:00 Like a, yeah, white picket fence 10:01 kind of neighborhood 10:03 and it's just, it spiraled from there 10:04 just kept going further and further down 10:06 and got into a sexual chat online. 10:10 When internet came out, it wasn't like it is now 10:12 and will pop up and everything but it was, 10:14 I was on three four hours a night talking with people 10:16 and it just kind of got into sexual chat with 10:19 I think were women, I have no clue but... 10:21 And another, when you talk about that 10:23 is that even from the time 10:27 that you started experimenting with that 10:29 is that they really have online sites or apps for people 10:34 just to go in, jump in, jump out 10:36 and almost your trail is gone immediately. 10:39 You can find out who you can hook up with 10:41 or who you can be with within 50 miles of your phone. 10:44 Yeah. 10:45 And we're in our, your mind get so distorted 10:47 what really is love and you mistake it with lust, 10:50 and we have no clue anymore what love really looks like 10:52 in an intimate relationship it's really distorted, 10:55 for myself it was, 10:57 I'm still to this day trying to figure out, you know, 11:00 what does an intimate relationship look like. 11:03 Did anyone notice that all this and you're online all the time, 11:06 you were withdrawing 11:08 because there was a lot of things 11:09 that somebody around you if they were tuned in, 11:13 they could have picked up on. 11:14 College no, because it was kind of, 11:16 like our whole period after school 11:18 we could go and work on the computers 11:20 and I was there for three four hours 11:21 and guy let me in and we stayed there as buddies with him 11:23 but when I went to work, 11:25 I carried into the workplace, yes. 11:27 They saw me, they realize I was doing something 11:30 and like you said trying to cover your tracks, 11:32 I was going on vacation and so I decide, 11:34 I need to delete some things, I didn't know I was doing 11:36 because of the shame and fear for what they would think 11:39 and I deleted stuff I weren't supposed to 11:42 and destroyed their computer. 11:43 I came back and they said, "I'm sorry. 11:45 This just isn't working. You're fired." 11:47 But my co-workers saying, 11:48 look, they know what you're doing, 11:50 you need to quit. 11:51 I said, I will quit and I kept trying, 11:54 I just could not and it got further and further 11:56 and I was trying to beg them to give me work 11:58 so I keep myself preoccupied 12:00 so they're doing, you know, stuff, 12:02 so I just went further and further. 12:04 So can you talk about what it feels like 12:06 because I think that when someone says, 12:08 "What do you mean addiction? 12:09 I mean why don't you just not do it at work." 12:13 So you can talk about that pool of addiction. 12:15 It's kind of you're filling a void, 12:17 it's like a high almost. 12:19 I guess you could call it a high. 12:20 Yeah. 12:21 That you're just trying to get off, I don't know, 12:23 pun intended but yeah, 12:24 you literally you get off on it. 12:26 It's just something that you real need 12:27 to go to other person like, 12:29 you know, sensing the same thing I am, 12:31 you know, how, what are they doing 12:32 and try to visualize in your head what's going on. 12:35 You know, you can see all kinds of images 12:37 racing through your mind 12:38 trying to think what are they doing so... 12:40 So, so with you being lost in that 12:45 because I know that eventually, Janelle, you guys meet. 12:49 What's your background 12:51 and did you have the same struggles 12:56 or the same interest as him? 12:59 Yeah, similar, actually it's kind of weird 13:01 how that worked out but I was about ten 13:04 when I first viewed pornography. 13:06 I found a video tape 13:07 and it was actually some music videos of my father's 13:11 and at the end of it there was this scene on there 13:14 and I think all my siblings were in there with me. 13:16 My brother my sister and were like, 13:18 "What was that?" 13:19 And then I found myself 13:20 watching it again over and over. 13:22 With nobody in there. 13:23 Yeah and, and so that was ten years old 13:27 and so I mean kids you know find stuff 13:30 and it can trigger that, you know, 13:32 that just the desire to want to see it again, 13:36 but for me actually I think maybe I was 12 13:40 when that happened because even before that, 13:43 I had been exploring with masturbation 13:45 and that continued since age ten 13:47 till you know until God brought me out of it. 13:50 And so that something... 13:52 We hate, you know, and society at large, 13:55 they will let guys have sexual addiction, but girls, 13:59 they don't really like us to be anything but pure. 14:00 Right, you're supposed to be perfect and prim and proper 14:02 and all this, you know, 14:04 and it's like no, but yeah, it's... 14:05 But even saying it out loud 14:06 because I work constantly with people that struggle 14:09 and women and pornography, women in sexual bondage, 14:14 it's really tough because even to say it out loud. 14:17 We don't want to say it out loud. 14:19 We do want to be all that and we want to have all of that 14:22 but you're saying is finally, I'm done hiding. 14:25 I'm done being ashamed. Right 14:27 And we're gonna talk about why you can do that 14:30 because I just so admire you. 14:32 But you're saying from the time I was a kid, 14:35 I'm lost in this. 14:38 And did you, did you have a sense 14:42 when you said, these were my dad's videos, 14:44 did you have a sense of. 14:45 And I'm saying this not to make anyone feel guilty, 14:48 but when we're raised in the sexualized environment, 14:52 kids will get twisted and they don't know 14:54 why they'll say no, I wasn't touched. 14:56 I wasn't molested. 14:58 But the people around us were very sexualized. 15:01 Yeah, that was definitely the case. 15:02 So... 15:04 Talking about you being pretty 15:05 or you know I like the way your body is growing 15:08 and all that kind of stuff and, 15:11 you know, something was said that wasn't right 15:13 but I don't know what it is. 15:15 Yeah. Yeah. 15:16 And I think for me it was just seeing those images too 15:21 and you know images stick in our minds 15:24 and it's really hard to get those out, 15:27 only by God can we erase those things, 15:29 ask Him to take it away and still there are scars there 15:31 and there's still things that we can't get out 15:34 but, you know, I really don't think 15:37 my parents even realized it, 15:39 you know it was there if they had left it for us 15:42 to find, you know, 15:43 it was just something that they said, 15:45 and I think they recorded over something as VHS days. 15:48 And so they had recorded over some stuff 15:51 and then there was this at the end 15:52 and it's like, whoa. 15:54 But I think 15:56 my mom was probably totally oblivious to it 15:58 but my dad, you know, 16:00 I think he might have known at some point... 16:03 Did he ever talk to you? No. 16:05 Not about that, 16:06 and there were some issues with them. 16:09 And, you know, I've talked to others before about this 16:11 and so it's not like it's the first time, 16:14 but my dad had some issues with, you know, 16:16 going cheating on my mom and this and that and stuff, 16:19 you know, a lot of different times 16:21 that that happened. 16:22 And so there was that 16:25 and so that was kind of you know another sore spot 16:27 and you know as far as my parents, 16:29 and so I was hearing these things, you know, 16:32 when they would have arguments or whatever 16:33 and talking about, you know, you did this 16:35 and I'm hearing, you know, 16:37 different people he had been with, 16:39 even people that I knew and stuff 16:41 and so it was kind of... 16:43 So even with your parents you're hearing sexualize stuff 16:47 or sexual stuff but not them as a couple separately. 16:52 Dad's cheating on mom... 16:53 Oh, well, no, not never together. 16:56 I would hear them have arguments 16:58 and things like that 17:01 and then I would find out later from different sources 17:03 that, you know, hey, 17:05 I heard this you know about your dad or whatever, 17:08 and so it was kind of second hand, 17:09 but I kept hearing it. 17:11 And so it was like, you know, sometimes you have to take it 17:13 with a grain of salt what you hear and you don't, 17:15 you know, not everything's always true 17:17 but when it's coming from different sources, 17:19 it kind of made me wonder, you know, 17:21 and so, and honestly 17:23 I've not talked to my dad about this before, 17:27 but it's really been tough. 17:30 You never talked to him yet? 17:33 You know that is gonna be 17:35 a really incredible conversation 17:38 because sometimes we don't want to talk 17:40 and we're fearful of talking. 17:41 Yeah. 17:42 But even now you're saying 17:44 I don't know how I would do that. 17:45 What makes you tear up about that? 17:47 What are you thinking? 17:49 Just, 17:52 just a lack of I guess respect for family. 17:57 What it would do to us, 17:59 how it would shape our futures and still lot of hurt, 18:06 and I think in some ways I was afraid to confront him with 18:09 because I didn't know how he'd react. 18:12 Would you still love me? Would we still be okay? 18:16 Yeah. 18:17 Scary stuff. Yeah. 18:21 Thank you for sharing that because what's really crazy 18:23 about early addiction especially, sexual addiction 18:26 is we use our addiction to help us survive or cope. 18:33 It's a stress thing. 18:34 Some people go in and just eat, 18:36 some people start workaholics 18:39 or they're academically they push into that, 18:42 but when we literally start using our sexuality 18:45 to help us cope, it is, we get hijacked on every level. 18:50 And what you're saying is that whenever I believe 18:54 what you said to me, if this is right. 18:55 Whenever you felt stressed, 18:57 whenever you felt out of control, 18:58 whenever things were flowing apart, 19:00 you could go to this place and be okay. 19:03 Yeah. 19:04 And I think I did look at it 19:06 like you said it's a stress reliever. 19:07 You know the masturbation stuff and it was just like 19:10 I didn't really seen anything wrong with it. 19:12 It's just like, okay, well, 19:13 if it's gonna makes me feel better, 19:15 sort of stress reliever. 19:16 And I think it's so important too 19:18 to realize how much that is really now it's encouraged 19:25 to kids to do this stuff, 19:26 you know, like sex-ed classes and stuff like that 19:29 encourage kids to masturbate because it prevents disease 19:32 and all these different things you should love yourself... 19:35 Yeah, love your body, love yourself 19:37 and it's like that's not, I mean you should love yourself 19:40 but through God and not because you're... 19:43 I've seen the term self abuse and that's what it is, 19:46 you're abusing your body so... 19:49 So you end up getting into a place 19:53 to where that you're lost in the same way 19:58 almost as him just different. 20:00 You can go in your head, 20:02 I think have you ever explored the difference 20:05 between sexual addiction with women 20:08 and sexual addiction with men, 20:09 have you guys looked at that... 20:11 If... 20:12 just very minimal if anything, not much so, yeah. 20:15 It used to be a huge cavern, you get the women, 20:19 for one we are more into 20:22 kind of that intimate connection 20:24 and our fantasies are really kind of different 20:27 and men it's the image they look at, 20:30 they feel that kind of stuff it's very visual. 20:33 Now, the divide is not so much there anymore, 20:37 so it really is disappearing. 20:39 That's kind of reversing the roles now, 20:40 you see that women are becoming more 20:42 in the kind of man's role 20:43 and the man's becoming more in women's role, 20:45 it's kind of reversing, that's happening. 20:47 So that's why you see all those transgender 20:49 and decisions, you know, 20:50 they're not happy with my sex who I am 20:53 and sex is really confusing and somebody had told me, 20:55 they mentioned that now we're gonna start doing 20:57 a burst of his memory 20:58 when you don't have male or female 21:00 when you're born so you can choose later 21:01 what you want to be. 21:03 There's total confusion 21:04 and total like inside identity crisis. 21:06 Really is, you know, we don't know who we are 21:09 and why we're here 21:10 and we search for something to fill a hole, 21:12 fill a gap that, you know, feel better at heart. 21:15 So you guys end up in high school, 21:17 in college and then I love the fact then, then you meet. 21:22 And to me I just think sometimes, you know, 21:24 we forget that we walk into a relationship 21:27 and we bring in all of this stuff 21:29 into the relationship. 21:31 So when you met, did you meet in college at work? 21:35 You know, we met over at were she worked at a place called 21:38 Bank-One now placed in lower Kentucky. 21:40 I went down over with a group of guys 21:42 to inventory her bank Y2K... 21:46 Oh, that's crazy, a crazy time. 21:48 And we actually were going to banks was interesting 21:50 as the guys who were younger 21:51 and they said there's no good looking women, 21:53 you know, in any of these banks and I ran into her office 21:56 and I saw her and went, I said, okay, 21:59 so I ran back to the guys. 22:01 They all came running down are like puppy dogs 22:04 tongues practically hanging out. 22:06 A manager actually told me said, 22:07 "No, I'm gonna take the other room, 22:09 you take the room across, I'm taking this room. 22:10 So it kind of hit from there and she invited us to club 22:13 and so went clubbing and yeah... 22:16 So you guys liked each other. No? 22:21 No, you're saying no. 22:23 Oh, yeah, he know this so, 22:25 well, when we first met, 22:31 I was not looking for relationship just, 22:34 you know, just having fun and I was in college 22:37 and so I thought oh, there's some guys, 22:39 you know, we can go to the club with 22:41 and so I called my friend, you know, 22:43 I told there's these four guys I think it was four in town 22:46 and so, you know, think it would be fun 22:50 if we just went to the club and just hang out with them, 22:52 get to know them, and so we went out 22:55 and I think that was Phoenix Hill or something 22:58 at that time but anyway, we stayed out the whole night, 23:01 I had to give a speech the next day 23:03 and we stayed out I mean all night 23:04 like till four in the morning. 23:06 I had like 45 minutes of sleep that night. 23:08 I had to give a speech the next day... 23:10 In the bank. 23:12 No, at the college that was going to 23:13 how to give a speech the next day 23:15 and it was the worst speech I've ever given. 23:17 I mean I almost fell asleep in the middle of the speech 23:19 in front of everybody, it was so embarrassing, 23:22 but anyway so, so we... 23:24 I think he was in town for a few days. 23:26 So we went out again and we just, 23:29 there was some chemistry there but I think, 23:31 I thought that he was younger than me 23:34 and I didn't want to date a younger guy 23:36 and he's actually older 23:39 and so at first I wasn't like immediately attracted to him. 23:43 But he grew on me a lot 23:44 because of his personality and so... 23:46 He's pretty funny. Yeah, he is very funny. 23:50 But I think at first too I was kind of confused 23:54 if he liked me or my friend, 23:56 and so I was kind of like, you know, 23:58 at that, yeah, and so 24:00 I was kind of getting a different vibes from him 24:02 like, I wasn't sure if he liked me or her 24:04 and so we just kept in touch and eventually we ended up, 24:11 he moved down to Indiana where I was living at the time. 24:14 And I think we've known each other just a few months 24:16 when he moved down here 24:17 and so we lived together for ten years 24:20 before we got married. 24:21 And it was that pretty quickly after you moved down 24:24 that you guys decided to move in together? 24:27 Five or six months. 24:28 Yeah, five or six, I get tired of the extensive phone bills, 24:30 I'm like this got to stop. 24:32 We talked almost every night on the phone and... 24:34 My parents brought me the other house to, you know, 24:35 of course so, I was probably 22 or 23 at the time. 24:38 Yeah, so I decide to move in with her. 24:42 I almost actually lost my job because of her 24:44 because she was working for a bank 24:45 we are not supposed to date clients 24:47 and my manager is like that is a big no, no, 24:49 but she was actually a temp. 24:51 So that's kind of... 24:52 Little hope. Yeah. 24:54 So, I'm gonna go ahead and take a break 24:56 because I know that this next part 24:58 as I don't want to kind of interrupt 25:01 once you guys start talking about 25:02 your journey together as a couple, your addictions, 25:05 what kind of turn that took for you. 25:08 And my favorite part is how did you get out of it. 25:12 So we're gonna be right back if you are interested, 25:17 and it's just an incredible miracle. 25:19 Does God... 25:21 Is God able to change our very desires? 25:22 It is so amazing. 25:24 Our very desires He actually says, 25:25 I can change and all the stuff 25:28 that you put in your head that has twisted you, 25:30 He can untwist it if you allow Him, it's amazing. 25:34 We'll be right back. |
Revised 2016-11-07