Participants: Cheri Peters (Host), Janelle & Donald Owen
Series Code: CLR
Program Code: CLR000134B
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00:01 The following program discusses sensitive issues
00:03 related to addictive behavior. 00:05 Parents are cautioned that some material 00:06 may be too candid for younger children. 00:14 You know, for a lot of people, 00:16 it's just uncomfortable to talk about 00:18 who we are sexually 00:19 but I just feel like we are a mass. 00:21 I remember even when, 00:24 for some of you know the Ashley Manor thing, 00:26 where 45 million people were on a dating site 00:30 where they were just having, 00:31 they could find someone to have sex with, 00:34 never even get their names right, 00:36 half of them were married. 00:37 Most of them were in relationships 00:41 with other people but we are a mass 00:42 in every single way and I think unless we talk about it, 00:45 unless we stop hiding and stop living in shame... 00:50 We are going to be hijacked 00:52 in every way with any addiction, 00:54 as soon as I can say out loud, you know what? 00:56 I'm powerless with this. 00:57 I need some help, as soon as I can start 00:59 bringing people into my life to keep me accountable, 01:02 I'm going to be stuck and that's any addiction, 01:05 eating, sex, work, spending, 01:08 religious addictions, any of that kind of stuff 01:10 and so for folks that are a little nervous 01:13 when we talk about sex itself is that I just wanna say, 01:17 thank you so much, 01:19 'cause you shared a lot with us, so far both. 01:22 Donald and Janelle, you were talking about 01:24 from the time you were kids. 01:27 You've used sexuality in a way to escape, 01:30 to feel good, to get into a fantasy world to cope, 01:34 now you met each other, fall in love, move in together. 01:38 Did you know about each other's kind of sexual addiction? 01:41 And where did that play 01:43 in your first part of your relationship? 01:46 I'd say maybe onto the depth of it. 01:48 Probably, a little bit but yeah, 01:49 as far as with my area of sexual chat, 01:52 she had no clue. 01:53 And I was doing sexual chat on the pornography, 01:55 so I'm watching the movies and stuff 01:57 actually we did together, 01:58 so that part, yeah, but the sexual chats, 02:00 she did not know, I kept it quiet 02:03 and had to expose that years later 02:05 after I finally came clean 02:07 but, yeah, it was not really as prevalent. 02:10 Go ahead. 02:11 We were together for a while 02:13 before we actually started going to the video store 02:14 and the "back room." 02:16 You know, where they had the little section 02:18 with the porn and stuff and where we were kind of, 02:20 had to sneak back there basically, because the room... 02:24 The place is full of people and it's kind of like 02:26 you feel ashamed just going in there 02:28 and it was kind of like, you know, 02:29 the more we went in there though the less and less, 02:32 you know, we just became desensitized just like, 02:35 you know, we became desensitized 02:37 in a lot of ways because of our past 02:40 but just, you know, going in there and, you know, 02:42 getting the videos and even at the checkout 02:44 was like, wow, and kind of embarrassed about this 02:47 but eventually, I wasn't, 02:49 but we were together for a few years 02:51 before we started doing that and go in and get... 02:53 Before you were that open with each other. 02:55 Yeah. 02:56 So now you're still living together, 02:58 openly acting out together and everything is fine. 03:03 No problems. 03:04 You find out that he's also in chat rooms 03:08 talking with other people and so, you know, 03:11 even everybody has these kinds of things 03:14 but that's across the line, I, you know, 03:16 you are now cheating on me. 03:18 Yeah. Basically. Yeah. 03:20 And I think I kind of suspected something when he, 03:24 before he told me I kind of suspected just because of, 03:27 you know, we were together, 03:29 I think maybe seven years at that point 03:31 and I just knew that he wasn't acting right. 03:34 And I could tell. 03:35 And so we finally had that conversation and it was, 03:40 you know, like when he told me and I don't even know 03:43 how I did this but he told me, you know, 03:46 what he was doing and stuff and I, 03:48 somehow I found his username and password, 03:50 was checking his stuff and I was like, 03:53 I don't even like the person I was becoming 03:54 and like I'm so distrustful of him 03:56 and just checking everything he's doing like, 03:58 I don't wanna be like that. 04:00 Eventually, you know, I became, you know, 04:02 just like obsessed about it and it was like taken over, 04:06 what I was thinking about, it was like, 04:08 it was on my mind constantly, 04:10 wonder if he's telling me the truth, you know, 04:12 and all that kind of stuff, so I was. 04:15 You know, what's really... 04:17 And this is crazy 'cause I just gotta say this out loud 04:21 is the devil never let's us just sit in our addictions 04:25 and not be trashed, we become suspicious. 04:27 We start, you know, 04:29 and literally we're lost in our addiction 04:32 but we start accusing each other, there's chaos, 04:36 there's all that kind of stuff, there is no peace in sin 04:39 after a while and I don't care what it is, 04:41 you know, there's just no peace 04:43 and what you're finding 04:44 is what was okay with us for years. 04:47 All of the sudden, it's turning on both of us 04:49 and we're having to look at that, you know, 04:54 did you guys decide that we just got to, 04:57 you know, you know this is cheesy, 04:59 just say 'no.' 05:01 We gotta stop, we gotta turn things around 05:04 and when did that come into your relationship? 05:06 For me, actually I had to back up 05:07 when we're talking about the sexual chat, 05:09 I was really being, how to put this, 05:11 so it was really disgrading on my mind. 05:13 I've got to tell her, I've got to tell her, 05:14 was constantly, 05:16 this is getting too deep and I've got to quit this, 05:18 I'm in a serious relationship, 05:20 you know, my parents were still married to this day. 05:22 I didn't come from a broken family like that. 05:25 And so I knew how serious relationships are 05:28 and I kept still, driven into this sexual chat 05:31 and I'm like, I've got to tell her, 05:33 this is gonna kill her 05:34 and I know it's gonna just break our trust. 05:36 And, Donald, when you talk about driven into that, 05:38 I have friends that said, 05:41 that even as they're in bed together, 05:43 wife reading, husbands online, 05:46 chatting or looking at something, 05:49 so it drives you, it's like every free moment, 05:52 you know, it doesn't matter if you're at work 05:54 or it doesn't matter if somebody is in the house. 05:56 I'm gonna find a way to get online. 05:59 Yeah. 06:00 It even followed me from my one job I lost 06:02 to the next job and I knew I was doing wrong. 06:04 I just kept going right back into it, 06:06 it got even heavier because I found YouTube 06:08 and that went really interesting 06:10 and I know world was watching what I was watching 06:12 but that's where some changes happened though. 06:16 I started realizing I need to make some changes in my life... 06:18 'Cause you'll lose your job again. 06:19 Yeah. Well, that and I'll lose her. 06:21 And so I'm just crying out to God 06:23 and what had happened is in 2008, 06:25 we had made arrangements to get married. 06:27 It was ten years later and we finally decided 06:29 we're going to get married, 06:31 August of that year and in February, 06:34 I had a very interesting dream, late February 2008, 06:38 I had a dream and I know where it came from, 06:40 it came from God 06:42 and He spoke to me through that dream, 06:45 it was very intense. 06:46 I was in a bar drinking, having some fun 06:48 with some friends and they're sitting down. 06:50 I was standing up. 06:51 This old man walks in, he had a long white beard, 06:53 long white hair, had made eye contact, 06:55 he was literally looking in your eyes, 06:57 said, "God is coming." 06:58 And I just shot up on my bed 07:00 and I just literally ran to the living room, 07:02 I've never read a Bible before. 07:03 I grabbed the Bible, started reading it. 07:04 I'm like, "Why am I doing this?" 07:06 I stated crying and like, I don't know what's going on. 07:08 This is crazy but... 07:10 It was so real to you. Oh, yeah. 07:11 So, you know, to me I just want you to address this 07:14 'cause some people say, 07:16 "God doesn't talk to us in our sin." 07:18 Oh, that's not true. Yeah. 07:20 And why do you say that's not true 07:22 because to me I think one of the most important thing 07:25 for us to remember is God never stops talking to us. 07:29 That's right. He's always there. 07:30 He's like, I can't lose you, you know, there's a, you know, 07:34 we wrote "Steps to Christ" in a recovery edition 07:37 and in that I, you know, there's a place in Hosea, 07:44 where God says, "How can I let you go, 07:46 even though you're destroying yourself, 07:49 even though you don't even know it's me that's chasing you. 07:52 I will not stop... That's right. 07:54 "I love you" 07:56 and that sense of God saying, "I can't stop." 08:00 You are pushing me away. You're shutting the door. 08:03 You're putting all of this stuff around you, 08:05 you can't even hardly hear my voice but I promise you, 08:09 if you get silent for a moment, you will know I'm right there. 08:11 Right. He's looking for an open heart. 08:14 I want you to open that heart to me. 08:15 That grace come flooding in and, 08:17 you know, when God speaks till you hear 08:19 and you'll know He's calling you 08:21 out of that darkness... 08:22 So you get the Word of God now, you're going to that... 08:26 Well, what are you thinking? 08:27 Well, I should mention, I don't think I did, 08:28 the fact that we almost broke up over this 08:31 and so there was a really rough time for us there, 08:36 for about a year and a half 08:38 and I remember these roses that he bought me, 08:40 it just came to my mind, 08:42 he bought me these roses to plant 08:44 and so there's three of them. 08:46 And so I planted them and that was like a symbolic, 08:49 you know, he wanted, it was just kind of like, 08:52 "Will you forgive me," kind of thing. 08:53 And so it was really interesting 08:57 'cause every time I would see these roses, 08:58 you know, and stuff I remember how we made amends 09:02 and at that point I wasn't thinking about God, 09:05 when we were still going through all this 09:07 but I know that he was working on both of our hearts 09:10 and so I know that seeing him struggle with, 09:13 you know, his own addictions that he was trying to quit 09:16 and so then I knew I had my own stuff too with, 09:19 I was dealing with, trying to, you know, quit 09:21 and so I knew that God was working on him 09:24 because he's after this dream, 09:26 he started reading his Bible and he was really, you know, 09:29 searching for God 09:30 and I wasn't ready at that point, 09:33 I wasn't ready for God, 09:34 I have been raised in a Christian home. 09:37 You know, my parents got divorced. 09:38 I stopped going to church, you know. 09:40 And so I knew about God but I never just, 09:44 I wasn't ready 09:46 and really wasn't sure about God at that point 09:49 and if I wanted to come back, 09:52 like at what time I would come back. 09:53 What does that mean? 09:55 What's really crazy is we get into this imagery 09:59 and this stuff and this world that is just so twisted 10:03 as far as who are we as men, who are we as women, 10:06 what is sexy, what is not, all of that thing 10:08 and the picture we have of somebody in church. 10:12 Like I remember watching Saturday Night Live once 10:15 and I don't even know if you know the earlier stuff 10:17 but there was a church lady on there 10:18 and she was in black and she had a bun on 10:21 and she would say, "Who made you do that? 10:24 Was it Satan?" 10:25 You know, and I thought, 10:27 "God, do not make me the church lady." 10:29 When somebody said, 10:30 "You're gonna become a Christian." 10:32 I would almost panic because I didn't want to be that... 10:35 Yeah. 10:36 I didn't want to be, you know, no fun and angry 10:39 and all that kind of stuff 10:40 and so if you're from that background 10:42 and you've been seduced into pornography, 10:44 the devil himself will make Christianity look bizarre. 10:48 And see that was something I think too that, 10:51 I'm glad you mentioned that because when I was a kid, 10:53 I saw that kind of Christianity, 10:56 I saw that, you know, the, 10:59 you know, just, you know, never... 11:01 The judgments and no happy. 11:02 Yeah, no joy. No peace. 11:05 I saw that, you know, I think that kind of made me question, 11:09 you know, do I wanna ever go back 11:10 to that kind of environment. 11:11 I'd never seen anything besides that. 11:14 And so, we know, there was all that going 11:16 through my mind at that time too, so... 11:18 So it's crazy. 11:20 So you're saying, "I'm either in this world 11:22 or I have to go to this one." 11:25 And, you know, could you imagine the strategy 11:29 of the enemy just saying, you know what? 11:30 As long as I can make this world look disgusting, 11:34 Christianity look disgusting. 11:36 I've got them trapped. Exactly. 11:38 But both of you are feeling that God is moving, 11:42 you're in the Word of God. 11:44 You're literally going to the Bible. 11:46 Yeah, actually three months, 11:48 it took me to go from Genesis to Revelation, 11:51 three months I read it and three months 11:53 and I was hungry for more, 11:55 I didn't know where to go and actually I'm going to, 11:57 I was only in church for a while, 11:59 I love to sing, I ain't a lead singer but actually 12:01 God put me in the front of the church 12:03 to kind of lead out 12:04 and I didn't know where He's leading me. 12:06 So you end up going to church. 12:08 She's panicking 12:10 and your life is starting to change. 12:14 You are now seeking after, 12:18 whatever I can find spiritually 12:20 not chat rooms... 12:22 Yep, always... 12:24 And the reason I had to say that, Donald, 12:25 because we say that God changes the desire. 12:28 It's not that we force a change, that God says, 12:32 "I will change your desire, 12:33 you just give me half a chance." 12:35 What were you laughing about? 12:37 Interesting because when I used to work, 12:39 I used to look at YouTube and all this pornography 12:41 and stuff through Youtube 12:42 and then I actually start switching 12:44 and learning truth through the internet and... 12:46 So now you're looking for sermons. 12:47 Yeah. I was looking for truth. 12:49 Yeah, I was thirsty for truth. 12:50 I wanna know what it was and stumbled on it 12:53 and it was just amazing. 12:54 When I finally see what truth really was 12:56 and finding Jesus Christ 12:58 was the biggest thing in my life, so... 12:59 Did you feel, did He ever shame you? 13:01 Who? 13:02 God. No. 13:04 Could talk about that 'cause a lot of us are afraid, 13:06 I know I was afraid that with my background 13:10 that I would be so ashamed to stand in front of God, 13:14 knowing who I am. 13:17 But when that's not the way it is. 13:19 He'll never shame you, I feel more like I was, 13:21 you know, I shamed him. 13:23 That's the way it was but, yeah, He never, 13:25 He's always accepting me, He's always pulled me in, 13:27 He's always been there and gave me the courage 13:29 and the strength to overcome this addiction. 13:32 So I was really blessed by His grace and His mercy 13:35 and time He gave me. 13:36 You wanna pull out of that because I was 22 years into it. 13:39 We're in the book "Victory in Jesus," we're looking at, 13:43 you know, Romans and in Romans 2:4, 13:48 one of the things I'd love is it says, 13:50 "Do you despise the goodness of God, the grace of God, 13:54 that He literally goes with us 13:56 for years of our acting out, years of our rebellion." 13:59 So that we understand repentance 14:02 and we turn towards Him and hand Him all this stuff. 14:05 And somebody says, "Well, why is God so patient?" 14:07 I don't know but, you know, Paul really warns us, 14:11 don't get angry at God that He's so patient, 14:14 because He doesn't wanna lose any of us 14:16 and you were hijacked as a little boy, 14:19 my heart breaks for that kid and the same thing 14:21 you were hijacked early on 14:23 and as you're watching him change 14:25 'cause he's now changing, right in front of you. 14:28 Yeah, for sure. 14:29 Yeah, and we just, our relationship became, 14:34 it just became better at that point 14:37 and I saw all of the changes in him 14:38 and I knew that he had tried to quit several times, 14:41 these chats and stuff and we were... 14:45 We had our, you know, discussions about it 14:47 and I knew how hard it was for him 14:49 and so I saw those changes 14:51 and I knew that it had to be God, it had to be, 14:53 you know, way beyond Him because of the repeated times 14:57 he had tried to change. 14:58 And so we decided at one point, 15:01 actually, he was ready. 15:03 Each time, like each step towards God, 15:05 he was ready before I was. 15:08 He wanted to get rid of our porn stash 15:12 and our toys and stuff and so, I'll say, "Well, no..." 15:15 I'm not ready. "I'm not ready." 15:17 And so he, you know, he got rid of some of his stuff 15:20 and so, you know, eventually, 15:22 I don't know there's been some time there but eventually, 15:24 I wanted to do the same thing 15:26 and it's kind of this goofy thing 15:29 that not only I was convicted of it 15:31 but also this goofy thought that... 15:33 What if there was a tornado and all this stuff that we have 15:37 is floating around the neighborhood 15:39 and people are seeing it like, "What is that?" 15:41 and so... 15:42 That actually happened somewhere... 15:44 That's funny. Yeah. 15:45 That actually happened. And so I was... 15:47 'Cause there's tornadoes around here, 15:48 so you understand what is. 15:49 Yeah, exactly, and I was like, well, 15:51 I don't want that to be my motivation 15:53 but that wasn't something I was thinking of 15:56 but I thought, you know, 15:58 how can I be really connected with him. 16:00 If he's going this way and I've still got this 16:03 and I'm gonna, you know, 16:04 it just wouldn't be as enjoyable. 16:05 You know, if he was not into it and so, 16:09 we burned the rest of our stuff and... 16:13 I should back up a little bit. 16:14 We were actually talking to each other, 16:15 we're looking at each other and it was kind of interesting, 16:17 we're looking while we can, we're convicted of this now, 16:18 we can't give it to our friends 16:20 and how can you just give up your porn stash... 16:22 Every time you say that, I think, 16:23 I don't know if you're supposed to give 16:25 your porn stash to people. 16:26 No. I don't think, no. 16:28 But, yeah,... Definitely not. 16:29 And then back to track 16:31 that what she's talking about tornado, 16:32 actually I was burning the magazine 16:34 and our neighbor's rolling up 16:35 and also just the wind just caught in all these, article, 16:38 you know, there are pictures and stuff I'm trying to grab 16:40 and throw them like, I don't want my neighbor to see this, 16:42 I'm trying to grab and throw it off, 16:44 so they're really blowing and flying and I'm like, 16:46 "Oh man, this is bad." 16:48 And this is actually years after I got rid of everything, 16:49 we found a magazine, later we're cleaning our house. 16:52 I'm like, "Oh, man, don't tell me 16:53 you had that here so had to literally..." 16:55 So everything is now burnt, your life is changing. 17:00 Before we finish and talk about that. 17:03 I wanna just meet some people at the cafe 17:06 and see if anybody has a comment or question for you. 17:08 Sure. Okay. 17:09 And I know that here today, 17:11 I have some friends that are friends locally, 17:15 in their pastoral ministries, just incredible folks, 17:19 I got a friend, Damas, from New Zealand coming in. 17:24 I know that, you know, there's marriage counselors, 17:28 you got Ricky and Richie and Timmy 17:31 but I wanna ask, Thomas, 17:34 do you have a question for them? 17:35 Do you have a comment for them? 17:37 I do. 17:38 Donald and Janelle, first of all, 17:40 I wanna thank you very much for being so courageous 17:42 and sharing both of your stories together. 17:45 As I've been listening, I do have a question 17:47 and that would be, 17:49 at the point that you were heavily involved 17:53 in this lifestyle, 17:55 was there a sense of prompting or niggling in your life 18:01 that maybe you didn't identify the Holy Spirit 18:03 speaking to you but was any of that, 18:05 somewhere involved in what you were doing? 18:09 It's a good question. I can answer that. 18:11 Except for me and just for myself, 18:13 I remember I had some books from my parents, 18:17 from when we had gone to church when I was a kid 18:20 and there's one called 'Child Guidance' 18:22 and this was like way before we even, you know, 18:27 started like, before Don's changes. 18:29 I was reading in there one day, I don't know, 18:32 had to be the Holy Spirit prompting me to read this book 18:34 and it talked about self abuse which is masturbation 18:38 and, you know, at that point, I was way far from God 18:42 and I read that in there and I was like, 18:44 I can never stop doing it 18:47 and I know that those are Holy Spirit speaking to me. 18:50 I mean, the fact I even picked the book up, 18:53 a book that I would never read except that it was, you know, 18:58 in a place, you know, where I was... 18:59 I just wanted to pick it up and read it 19:02 and I think that really was the Holy Spirit. 19:04 You know, for me, showing me 19:07 that what I was doing wasn't right. 19:09 And literally taking you in a direction, 19:11 and when you talk about, you know, 19:12 self abuse and masturbation, what's really interesting to me 19:17 is that there is a sense that God says, "You can't. 19:21 If you could just be involved in those kind of acts 19:26 without fantasizing in your head." 19:30 That would be one thing but you can't. 19:32 I mean, where you go in your head 19:33 is very dangerous and then nobody can live up 19:36 to the fantasies that you do in your head. 19:38 So you really start to disconnect 19:41 from anybody that actually can be intimately 19:43 involved in your life and so when somebody says, 19:46 "Is it right. Is it wrong? Is it good or bad?" 19:49 I think what's destructive about, 19:53 when we start to take care of our own needs 19:55 without anyone else, that nobody can compete 19:59 with what we can do in our heads. 20:01 You can't, I can control exactly where I take myself. 20:06 If you get involved, it's a little more clumsy. 20:08 So I actually will push people away 20:10 and so I love the fact that you went to a book 20:13 that said, "Be Aware, this will not turn out well." 20:19 And we're not talking about, you know, I know that, 20:22 Donald, you've talked about even the medical aspect 20:24 of some of these things 20:26 and that's a whole another thing 20:27 but just psychologically it's a big deal 20:30 and we have other questions in the cafe, 20:32 Timmy, do you have a question? 20:34 Hi, there. 20:35 I'm so honored 20:38 to just get to sit and listen to both of your guys' stories 20:41 and the authenticity in which you share things 20:43 that usually people keep hidden really well, 20:46 it's really a privilege to get to be here. 20:49 I'm really curious what your journey has been 20:52 from going from the perspective of, 20:56 "I will never stop masturbating" 20:59 to where ever you find yourself now. 21:01 I know sometimes God takes things away 21:04 and sometimes He doesn't 21:05 and there's a journey that is a part of that, 21:08 what is that been like for you? 21:09 Well, at first, it was tough to give up just the toys 21:13 but through that, 21:15 that was the really symbolic thing, 21:17 I think started the whole journey 21:19 and like you said some things fall off right away. 21:24 But there's other things that take time 21:26 and so the masturbation followed not long after that 21:29 and just like I had no desire anymore after that. 21:34 And it was like, 21:35 it was just that road, you know, He had me on 21:38 and, you know, the big step 21:40 of just getting rid of the things 21:42 that were kind of like triggers, you know, 21:45 and I think that's important 21:46 when we have something that is a trigger 21:49 to recognize what the trigger is, you know, 21:52 what is it that's making me wanna do this. 21:54 'Cause sometimes a trigger is stress, 21:56 sometimes it's anger, 21:58 sometimes it's insecurity, that it's not a sexual trigger, 22:02 it is that this is what I'm using to cope. 22:05 You know, I love those, the questions, thank you, guys, 22:08 but I wanna say now 22:09 you're looking at each other and saying, 22:11 how do we learn to love each other? 22:15 How do I stay present? 22:16 How do I not go in my head to where I typically go? 22:23 How did you guys do that? 22:24 'Cause God is gonna teach you to fall in love. 22:28 Ask God several times, what does that look like, 22:30 you know, trying to learn 22:32 what a healthy sexual relationship looks like 22:34 and I have to admit it's been a struggle 22:36 because I'm still trying to unwire all that things 22:39 that have been in my head. 22:40 So for me it's been really reading and learning 22:44 and trying to get 22:45 all the information I can to learn, 22:46 what is a healthy sexual relationship? 22:48 And it's just been, it's been a journey still 22:50 and I'm still on a journey learning and it's been... 22:54 And I love when you say that 22:55 'cause, you know, healthy means, 22:58 even laughing and loving and playing and connecting, 23:01 so it's not just the act of sex 23:04 because pornography just takes it down to, 23:07 excuse me, but an orgasm, it's just that we go right, 23:09 this is what the goal is. 23:11 But in a relationship the goal is to laugh with each other, 23:14 to love each other, 23:16 to step out in the world and say, 23:17 "Doesn't it feel good the way the sun hits our skin?" 23:20 A very sensual relationship 23:23 but it is really different than what the Word says. 23:26 I'm gonna say too on that point, 23:28 the word 'self gratification's' coming to my mind. 23:30 We really wanna please ourselves 23:31 in those moments, 23:33 we're now, we're two people wanting to enjoy each other. 23:35 It's different. 23:36 It's totally different. Yeah. 23:38 So, you know, when we first met and I just got to show this 23:42 for people that haven't seen this, 23:44 we wrote a program for the church, 23:45 it's called, "Celebrating Life in Recovery." 23:47 Really talking about not only sexual issues 23:50 but a number of different issues 23:51 and when I met you guys, you had looked at this program 23:54 and decided to run it in the community 23:57 and you went out in the community and said, 24:00 "We're gonna run this friendship support group, 24:03 talking about recovery issues." 24:04 And you went out with your testimony, 24:07 openly shared with people, this is who we are. 24:10 How did that feel? 24:12 How did it feel to go from, 24:14 "I don't even know 24:16 if we know what a relationship is, 24:17 to where we are along our journey in some way 24:20 and I wanna help someone else." 24:21 That was really like, I prayed on this and I said, 24:25 "I just wanna know what does this look like, 24:27 you know, I see the community. 24:28 I see the people hurting. I see the pain." 24:30 And Proverbs, talks about, you know, 24:33 "My people perish with lack of vision." 24:35 And I thought, "Man, 24:37 what is the vision for this community? 24:38 How can we help this community heal?" 24:40 And the word 'addiction' came to my mind 24:43 and I had that confirmation 24:44 from another co-worker at the time 24:46 and he said, "Man, I wanna do something." 24:47 We got together and we talked 24:49 and another co-worker, she said, 24:50 "I have, you know, something in my life, 24:52 it's struggling with addiction." 24:53 I'm like, "This is crazy." 24:55 Also I'm hearing all ideas of addiction, 24:56 so we took this 24:58 before our church board on this idea, 24:59 we weren't even, scheduled even to speak. 25:02 I mean, this other gentleman, 25:03 we went and they just was like, 25:05 "Wow, we wanna do this. Yeah." 25:06 So we ended up purchasing two of these kits. 25:09 We had, went out, Janelle worked on some of the, 25:13 with what you guys already had online... 25:14 Yeah. 25:16 Worked on some of the promotional pieces, 25:17 we wended fliers, 25:18 I went to all the major businesses 25:20 and the two bigger towns here, 25:22 and we got an amazing response 25:23 from people saying, "You know what? 25:24 My so and so struggles with this, 25:26 my family, my brother, sister, 25:28 they struggle with these types of..." 25:29 Were you excited that... 25:31 To me, when we did this in our church, the same, 25:34 but you go out in the community 25:36 and every other person says, "Me too." 25:38 Yeah. 25:39 "Man, I don't even know how to break free from this. 25:41 I'm stuck here or my child or my husband..." 25:44 And everybody's saying, you know, "I need this." 25:48 Were you surprised? 25:49 And what's the... To me it's the saddest thing, 25:51 is they were afraid to talk about. 25:52 Yeah, that's what I was gonna say 25:53 is the fact that when we would talk to people 25:56 we would stress any addiction 25:58 because, you know, like you mentioned, 26:00 you know, how it covers everything 26:02 and there's some things 26:03 that we don't automatically think of as addictions. 26:05 Eating, works... 26:06 Right. Stealing. 26:08 Yeah. 26:09 The religious addictions, yeah, gossip and just, 26:12 there's so many areas of addiction 26:15 that we just don't either want to admit 26:17 or don't think of, 26:18 the automatic ones are drinking, smoking, drugs, 26:21 all that and but, you know, 26:22 automatically that's what we'd hear a lot 26:24 when we went to the community is, 26:26 "Oh, yeah, I have a family member on drugs 26:28 and this and that." 26:29 And we said, you know, 26:31 that's something that we wanna deal with 26:34 but we also wanna deal with other things 26:36 that are more internal, 26:37 that people struggle with because those were just scary. 26:40 Those were scary if, you know, if they're there 26:42 and people don't deal with them. 26:43 Those are the scary ones, especially, you know... 26:45 And they don't get better and silent. 26:47 Exactly, yeah. 26:48 And, you know, what we found a lot was that, 26:52 you know, we would put the word out there 26:55 but, you know, we were a little disappointed that, 26:58 you know, that we didn't have 27:01 the turnout that we thought we would have 27:03 but God brought the ones that needed it 27:05 and so we're just, 27:06 you know, you want so much for people and you're like, 27:08 you know, 27:10 you see the plank in the other person's eye 27:12 you know, the person, the thing that's wrong with them 27:14 and it's like, they don't see it, 27:15 they won't come 27:17 and they won't be healed from this 27:18 and so but God brought the ones 27:21 that He wanted to be there, so... 27:22 So for one, this program is running 27:25 in different parts of the world. 27:27 Two percent of the people that are responding 27:30 are hard core drug addicts, two percent. 27:33 Most of them look really good like you and I, 27:37 you know, most of them have all this kind of stuff 27:38 or whatever 27:40 but one of the things that I love 27:43 is the fact that it helps 27:44 even the person that's leading out, 27:47 to get stronger in their own healing. 27:49 So tell me what it did for you guys, 27:52 just putting it together, 27:53 just reaching out in the way that you did, 27:56 what was that like for you? 28:00 'Cause it's kind of like, you're looking in a mirror 28:01 and you see there's this dark spots in your heart 28:03 that you're still trying to overcome. 28:05 I mean, you see that 28:07 and the cool thing is getting in this class 28:08 and watching as you're leading out, 28:10 you know, struggling with people 28:11 that are kind of quiet at first, 28:13 quiet as to I don't want to be the one talking in this class, 28:14 you know. 28:16 But over time, people as they participate, 28:17 they begin to realize, "Okay, I can be comfortable," 28:19 because we really stressed in that class, you know, 28:21 that we're not to speak on, 28:23 you know, what's going on here... 28:24 This is confidential. 28:26 Nobody's therapist, we're here as friends. 28:28 Exactly. You're right. 28:29 And we made to be stressed out every time 28:31 and we talked about and people starting to break down, 28:32 you can see people breaking down. 28:34 That was just amazing. 28:35 As a leader, to watch that and see people stepping up, 28:38 wanting to participate and get involved 28:40 and become leaders themselves. 28:41 And when you say break down, 28:42 you don't mean psychologically break down... 28:44 No, no. 28:45 But just their trust in those barriers... 28:47 Exactly. 28:48 Where they don't feel like they can be themselves. 28:49 People decided to be themselves. 28:51 As the thing is, we as a people, 28:53 we tend to kind of hide, like a mask, 28:56 we wear a mask, we don't wanna to keep it real. 28:58 So we need to keep things real. 29:00 We're not really into it, sorry. 29:02 No worry. 29:03 I just enjoy about how, 29:06 in the program it encourages you 29:07 to share your testimony. 29:08 So that if somebody is there 29:10 that would connect better with you, 29:13 would be more willing to share their story 29:15 or to fill more of a connection, 29:17 you know, and that kind of a thing, 29:18 so that was important for us to share our own journey, so... 29:21 We're gonna go ahead and break and come back. 29:23 When you guys join us for the close 29:25 'cause I wanna stay with that, 29:27 'cause, Janelle, that's so important. 29:29 When you are dealing with amazing amount of stuff, 29:32 know that you don't have to wait till you're ready. 29:35 Step up, help somebody 29:36 and in the helping of someone else, 29:38 you will heal. 29:39 It's so cool. 29:41 We'll be right back. Stay with us. |
Revised 2016-11-07