Participants: Cheri Peters (Host), Damas Manderson
Series Code: CLR
Program Code: CLR000135B
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00:01 The following program discusses sensitive issues
00:03 related to addictive behavior. 00:05 Parents are cautioned that some material 00:06 may be too candid for younger children. 00:13 Welcome back, 00:15 so we're talking about what happens 00:16 when there's trouble in paradise, 00:18 what happens when all of the sudden everything 00:20 that you have really fought for, worked for, 00:25 you felt like, you know, I've got all the right motives 00:28 because what you're saying is, 00:29 I did it all for what you believed at the time, 00:31 the right reasons and now you're living in the US, 00:35 you're trying to find help for your child who, 00:38 all the doctors are saying, 00:40 this is a rare case and she will not probably even survive 00:46 and you're just, wanted to scream. 00:48 Yep. 00:49 How is Dina doing during all of this? 00:51 Oh, Dina. 00:54 First of all, she's absolutely amazing, 00:57 how she adapted her attitude 00:59 around the challenge immediately 01:01 and her attitude was very positive. 01:06 Obviously very traumatized by the, you know, 01:11 by the diagnosis and her view like mine was, 01:15 you can plan your life for the rest of your life 01:17 but in the twinkling of an eye, 01:20 your whole life is just 01:21 completely changed in front of you 01:23 and the way that Dina adapted to that... 01:26 'Cause she's saying, the reality was there for her 01:29 but she's not angry at anyone, she's saying, 01:32 how do we do this now? 01:35 She always smiles, she always laughs, 01:39 she had got brilliant attitude, she'd always smile, 01:42 she was up to the challenge... 01:45 I've been in your house. Yeah. 01:46 And she does always smile. She always smiles. 01:48 You know, you walk out feeling like, you know, 01:50 there is a strength that she has... 01:52 That I want some of that. 01:54 Oh, she has incredible strength and in fact, 01:56 her strength has impacted my life positively 02:00 through the challenging times. 02:03 Not so say we haven't had 02:04 our own personal challenges through this... 02:05 Exactly. 02:07 'Cause we have, we're not perfect. 02:08 Yet and all of that, you know, 02:10 Dina has stayed the same all the way through. 02:12 She smiled, she's always been up for the challenge, 02:15 she'll do whatever it takes to give Kennedy Rose, Miles... 02:17 What do we do next? Where do we go? 02:18 Yep, yes. 02:20 You know, just be proactive, 02:21 organizing the therapy treatments, 02:23 the doctor's visits, tracking down a pediatrician 02:27 who was an expert in the area of Cri-du-chat, 02:31 probably seen the most in his life 02:33 and that was 15, in America. 02:35 In his whole life, yeah. 02:36 In America, yeah. Yeah. 02:38 From New York to Indiana, he moved from New York. 02:41 She was always on the, 02:42 you know, she was just dedicated, 02:46 it's almost like she knew her purpose in life. 02:50 You know, she knew that if this is what was given to us 02:53 and if God had allowed this to happen, 02:56 then she was ready for it. 02:57 How do we do it? Yeah. 02:59 And so, on one hand, she's trying to look at that 03:02 but she's looking at you as your wife 03:06 because it's hard to hide from our spouse, 03:09 she's looking at you knowing that you are melting down. 03:11 That you are angry, that this is not okay with you, 03:14 I'm not gonna accept this, where do we need to go? 03:17 Where can we get help? 03:18 God, where are you? 03:20 So she's trying not to lose you in the process of all of this. 03:25 She's trying very hard not to lose me 03:28 and keep me focused 03:29 'cause she probably knew 03:31 a little bit more about me than I knew about myself. 03:35 And to be disrupted like that. 03:39 At no point in time, 03:40 did we think or consider that 03:42 Kennedy Rose wasn't part of our family. 03:45 She was completely embraced and loved unconditionally. 03:50 It was the challenges of, 03:52 no one gives you an instruction book 03:54 with the syndrome like this and says, 03:56 "Hi, you know, this is the step A 03:59 and then you can go to B." 04:00 There was nothing. 04:02 So we are literally finding our way in the abyss, 04:05 so to speak and Dina just, straight down the line, man, 04:09 she's just lots of love, lots of commitment, 04:12 lots of dedication, lots of research. 04:14 Do whatever it takes attitude and smile, 04:17 all the way through it. 04:19 And you're shutting down. Me, I'm angry. 04:20 Oh, good friend of mine, Robert Dickwell, 04:23 he had his own general construction company, 04:24 I say, give me a hammer. 04:26 Yeah. 04:27 And so after hitting, just went in, 04:29 bangs nails and knocked wood 04:30 and I was angry and he had to put up with me saying, 04:32 "What kind of a bleep, bleep, bleep, bleep, bleeping 04:34 God would do a bleep, bleep, bleep, 04:35 after He performed a miracle with my..." 04:37 you know, and here's Dina just getting busy 04:39 to straight down with it in and at that point 04:45 Dina and I realized that 04:48 in order for our family to stay engaged as a family, 04:52 that there was no room for me to be an entrepreneur 04:54 or a businessman in America, 04:56 which is what I said to God. 04:58 What did she mean by that? 04:59 'Cause she's saying, you know, I can't have you, doing what? 05:03 Well, for me, it was like, "Hey, God, 05:06 this is your daughter that you gave to me. 05:08 So if I'm gonna step out in faith 05:10 and give America a go, 05:12 then I'm gonna lift up my arms 05:13 and I'm gonna say, 'Bless me.' " 05:15 Yeah. 05:16 Because I'm walking away 05:18 from my multimillion dollar business, 05:19 I'm sitting on the pig's back. 05:20 Right. 05:22 My wife is used to a lifestyle, you know, 05:25 "Come on, man, let's do this." 05:26 I can't have God drop a beat. Yeah. 05:28 "Yeah, come on, God, you owe me. 05:30 I mean, after all, you've planted her in my life." 05:32 That was my attitude. 05:34 And we say that now casually, 05:37 because you have really confronted that... 05:39 Oh, big time. 05:40 But that was your attitude. That was. 05:42 It's like, you know what, God? 05:44 I can't give back to you if you don't fix this. 05:50 It's like, you need me almost. 05:52 Yeah, it was my conditional love 05:55 to an unconditional loving Father. 05:59 He's so gracious. 06:01 So that was our journey. 06:02 So I started closing up. 06:04 I started getting really better 06:06 and really twisted 06:07 and so when Dina and I sat down and talked and I realized, 06:12 I did some homework, 06:14 so 80-90 percent of families end up in divorce 06:16 'cause they just can't handle the stress of it. 06:20 The normal child gets left behind 06:22 because all the focus is on the special needs child. 06:26 If you do stay together, 06:27 you normally just learn to exist 06:29 because of your crisis management everyday. 06:31 All the time, you put the fires out. 06:32 All the time. 06:34 Yeah, you know, I know what adrenal fatigue is, 06:37 your fight or flight just doesn't stop. 06:40 When your daughter... 06:42 You up four, five, six, seven, eight times at night, 06:45 just listening if she's breathing 06:47 because you wonder she's gonna spontaneously die, 06:48 that was Dina and I for seven years 06:50 before we finally gave it up to the Lord. 06:53 Yeah, I started to tarry and especially, 06:56 when I realized that, "Okay, I'm gonna... 06:58 Here's one for you, God." 07:00 I'm gonna be the responsible father and husband here 07:02 and I'm not gonna be an entrepreneur, 07:04 I'm not gonna build a business, 07:06 I'm just gonna focus on my family, 07:07 that's my duty, 07:09 that's my choice and that's my desire. 07:12 So there we go and... 07:14 I had a plenty of money in New Zealand, you know, 07:16 I'll just sell a couple of houses, 07:17 two or three years old, re-evaluate. 07:20 So once you've fixed this, I'll be fine. 07:22 I'll fix it. 07:23 I'll fix it. Yeah. 07:25 Yeah, we like to fix things. 07:27 Of course, two or three years into it 07:29 and we didn't even see any response 07:32 out of Kennedy Rose 07:34 that show that what we were doing was working. 07:35 At that point, I realized that we're in for a long haul 07:40 and at that point, 07:41 I realized that my identity was rapidly changing 07:48 and I started to discover who I really was 07:51 and I definitely was not planted 07:54 in my security in Jesus. 07:57 You know, and so I really, 07:59 when you start to see that all of the motives 08:02 that I thought were good, 08:04 all of the stuff I thought were spot on, 08:07 when God says, "Can I show you who you actually are? 08:11 Can I show you your character?" Yeah. 08:13 And He does it so graciously but it is a shock 08:18 and so what you're saying is I start to see that. 08:20 Yeah, yeah, 08:23 I see very clearly now that God is gentle, 08:27 you know, and if... 08:29 We got to be careful what we pray for 08:31 'cause if I asked Him, 08:34 " A once upon a time to reveal Himself to me as my Father, 08:38 so that I can put my trust and security in Him." 08:42 Now easy words... 08:45 Some way. 08:46 But I gave Him permission to really examine my life. 08:48 Even though scripture word says, search me. 08:51 Oh, God, yeah. 08:53 Search me and God says, "Really?" 08:55 Yeah. 08:56 Yeah, and He's so gentle 08:58 but it's like we have no idea 09:00 that the things that He has to kind of knock over 09:03 before He can actually get us to be real enough 09:07 to step into our own skin. 09:10 And Dina being as strong as she is, you know, 09:12 her quiet times are in the middle of the night, 09:14 when I would wake up and she's crying. 09:17 Anyway... 09:19 And you can't fix it. Can't fix it. 09:21 I don't know what to do. 09:24 I'm used to fixing things, 09:25 I'm used to creating an environment. 09:30 From scratch, something beautiful. 09:33 And... 09:35 And I can't do it in my own home. 09:36 And I got really, 09:38 that was the beginning of stripping back 09:40 the layers of my life 09:41 and it hurts, 09:45 but you get to the point where you're in so deep, 09:47 you may as well see what the other side looks like. 09:49 You start to lose everything. I lost. 09:52 Damas to develop her was going fast 09:55 and Damas that had 09:56 "All this property investments and money in his bank" 09:58 was going, 10:00 every month, every year, for a total of 10 years. 10:04 And went from hero to zero in 10 years, by choice, 10:08 not by bad decisions, not by bad investments, 10:12 it was by choice. 10:14 I believed whole heartedly 10:16 that it's my family was more important than anything else. 10:19 Amen. 10:20 And I remember that going through this I thought, 10:22 "Lord, I'm done. 10:23 I'm screwed. 10:25 I don't know how to bring my family back." 10:27 Right. 10:28 "I'm doing my best to be obedient, 10:30 it hurts like right now." 10:32 Right. 10:34 "Help, I don't even know who I am in your eyes." 10:37 When I saw you on that day at the parking lot at car port, 10:43 you were everything and you said, 10:46 "If I could kill myself today, I would be fine with that." 10:50 You were working at what job at that time? 10:53 So when we moved back to New Zealand, 10:55 back in... 10:58 End of 2013-14, 11:03 it was mainly because I was developing 11:04 some health issues in Indiana. 11:06 The environment there was getting to me and I set out, 11:09 end up pretty sick but I said the cancer would 11:13 because of the indicators in my body, 11:15 so they said, "Go back to New Zealand, 11:16 your immune system can't handle the mid-west environment, 11:19 you weren't born and bred here." 11:21 So it was the hardest decision, 11:23 to take my daughter away from her therapy treatments 11:26 and medical support. 11:28 My son, he's been there since the age of four. 11:31 And moved back for me, 11:33 we moved back to New Zealand for me and my health 11:36 and I'd secured what I thought was a really good job 11:38 where I was asked to develop a sub-division, a community 11:42 and the "mental health" for the government 11:44 where the philosophy was, 11:47 "It takes a village to raise a child" 11:48 and now that really got me 11:50 because I'm like, "Yes, it's all about family." 11:52 We moved family and then the God changes His mind, 11:55 He says, "It's too big for me to do right now, I'm sorry." 11:57 I said, "I just moved my family over, 11:59 I pulled my daughter. 12:02 Whenever I've finished with that conversation, 12:04 I thought I was low when I came to New Zealand, 12:07 I was dead after that conversation, 12:09 I thought I have just down..." 12:10 No money, no promises, no job. 12:12 No money, no promises, no job, no nothing 12:14 and I've just taken my daughter away from, 12:17 what took us years to get to the best 12:20 therapeutic medical support that she needed. 12:24 And the shame, the guilt 12:27 and just emotions that I couldn't even describe, 12:31 just hit me so hard. 12:33 So John knew that I was back in town 12:37 and I hadn't seen him for 15, 16, 18 years and of course, 12:42 he works at the Fiestum. 12:45 He's a CEO there... 12:46 Good friend, very successful guy. 12:47 Very successful guy and I was his first friend 12:52 when he first moved to Oakland, when I was like 16-17. 12:56 So we've known each other for a long time, 12:57 had some good times 12:59 and then we just didn't see each other for ever. 13:00 He finds out I'm in New Zealand, 13:02 rings me up and says, 13:03 "Hi, I know maintenance and stuff isn't your cup of tea 13:07 but my maintenance guy is going on vacation, 13:09 would you end up filling in for him for a while? 13:12 This is, I know, 13:13 that's probably insulting to your intelligence but maybe, 13:16 it would be good for you right now." 13:18 And I said, "I'll take it, I'll take it." 13:20 You'll take anything. 13:21 I haven't worked for anyone for 25 years, 13:26 it's all been about 13:28 what I've been able to do as an entrepreneur. 13:30 Absolutely. 13:31 Outside of my apprenticeship 13:33 and a couple of recreational things, 13:34 there's always been, me. 13:36 So I was thankful for the job and I was just, 13:40 in a way laughing at myself and thinking, "Wow, 13:43 I'm changing light bulbs and I'm cleaning out toilets 13:46 and I'm mowing lawns." 13:51 And yet I was thankful, 13:53 I was actually quite happy to be doing that 13:56 'cause I was gone and I was so depressed 13:59 and so destroyed from the previous meeting 14:01 that I actually found it difficult 14:03 to even change a light bulb. 14:05 It was interesting to me... 14:06 When I met you, 14:08 when I say, it felt like I was talking to a walking dead guy. 14:13 When I looked in your eyes 14:14 and I thought and I just felt like, 14:16 God just stopped, it's like, 14:18 "I don't care whose around us right now 14:21 but I literally want to know what is up? How are you?" 14:25 And so when you said about, you know, 14:28 that you didn't think that you were gonna make it, 14:31 I think you even asked me at one point, 14:33 "What does God think of suicide and would I be saved? 14:37 I did, I asked you the question, 14:41 "Do Christians go to heaven if they commit suicide?" 14:44 And you said, "I'm not answering that question." 14:47 And I said, "You've already answered it for me, thank you." 14:51 Because now you have permission to go kill yourself. 14:53 I have permission to go kill myself. 14:55 The only thing I could think of at that point, 14:57 is you need to hangout with us 15:00 and I don't care how, you know, 15:03 your sister and I were going to her place, 15:05 we have community events one after another 15:07 and you need to get there and she looked at you and said, 15:11 "You need to come over. 15:13 We need to schedule some time together." 15:17 And we get in the car and drive away, 15:20 knowing that you're gonna come and meet with us later 15:23 but we get in the car and drive away 15:24 and she starts to just cry. 15:27 She said, "I brought you to the community 15:29 because there are so many people 15:31 that are struggling and dying and hopeless 15:35 and I knew that your ministry, 15:37 what you're offering would change lives 15:40 but I didn't think I brought you for my own brother." 15:43 And for her it was such a... 15:46 It was that time where 15:48 I could see her almost pleading with God, 15:52 "I can't lose my bother." 15:55 Yeah, I was there. Yeah. 15:57 I was ready and then you had to come along. 16:03 Do you remember 16:05 coming over to the house? 16:07 Look, I remember making it to the house. 16:11 I remember asking you about, you know, 16:14 suicide, that's it. 16:17 You know, you said, you could see to my eyes, you know, 16:19 there's these zombie movies out at the moment, you know, 16:22 I totally get the zombie factor 16:25 'cause to me that actually displays 16:27 what's actually going on in a lot of people's heart. 16:28 We're alive but we did... 16:31 There was even... 16:33 And what was crazy, you guys, 16:35 is when he walked into the room, 16:37 there was nothing about him that was connected with, 16:41 even what it was around him. 16:43 You know, I watched, 16:44 you have beautiful nieces, right? 16:46 I watched them come up to you and you could not feel them. 16:50 You know, he wasn't in the room 16:52 and the only thing I'm thinking is this, 16:54 I believe is an incredibly loved man of God, 16:59 that God has a plan for 17:00 and I felt that He has a huge plan for you. 17:03 And yet, you're disappearing and I'm praying like, 17:09 "God, what do we do?" 17:10 And I don't want to offend anyone, but God says, 17:12 "You know what? He needs to be anointed." 17:14 Yes. Right. 17:16 And I'm asking you, 17:17 "Do you know what anointing is?" 17:19 Oh, yeah, you anointed me, yeah. 17:22 So you had your son anointed. 17:23 Yes. 17:25 Right. Yeah. 17:26 With healing. With healing. 17:27 You had your daughter anointed. Yeah. 17:29 And now somebody is standing in front of you saying that 17:30 your case is as severe. 17:33 And so I'm in two minds. 17:35 Okay. Yeah. 17:36 'Cause you wanna die. I wanted to die. 17:38 I honestly believed that the only way 17:41 that I could find peace in my life. 17:43 And it's not like I wanted to die, 17:45 I had run out of every other option that I knew of, to live. 17:51 And I actually thought I was doing my wife, 17:52 my son, my family, everybody, 17:54 I honestly believed that I was doing everyone a favor, 17:57 if I just put my miserable life at end 18:00 'cause I was just a pain. 18:01 I was a waste to my family, I actually had nothing to give 18:07 and I became contained with that, 18:11 I figured that... 18:12 I remember at one point grabbing your face, 18:14 "That is a lie." 18:17 And I know that you're looking at me like, 18:20 "What do you mean?" 18:21 Yeah, yeah, exactly. That is a lie. 18:22 I couldn't comprehend that. 18:24 You are a man of God, God is not done, 18:27 you need to come back, 18:29 you need to get back in the game. 18:32 You need to find or allow Him 18:34 to really speak hope into your life 18:36 and when we did the anointing, 18:38 what was amazing to me 18:39 'cause I know that you were just like, 18:41 "I don't even know." 18:42 We do the anointing and I think God Himself 18:45 gave just the words of who you are 18:48 and that He hasn't, 18:50 He sees you and He knows what is happening 18:53 and He feels that pain with you 18:55 and praying and as you walked away, for me, 19:02 God is saying, "Thank you, thank you." 19:06 And that was 18 months ago. 19:09 That was. Right. 19:10 So 18 months ago... 18 months ago. 19:12 What's happened in the last 18 months? 19:14 Wow. 19:16 You know... 19:17 Are you ready? Okay. 19:19 'Cause, you know, I'd love to say somebody says, 19:21 "Oh, that was 10 years ago, that was 18 months ago." 19:23 This was 18 months. 19:25 I am in awe to think that 18 months isn't a long time, 19:29 especially with where I was at 19:31 and so after you anointed me 19:34 and I was full of sarcasm and like, 19:37 "Yeah, whatever, God has a plan for my life, yeah." 19:40 From that, I was then invited to go and check out 19:43 a parent child camp in Northern California 19:48 and I thought, 19:50 "Great, I'm gonna spend some, 19:51 I will get the courage to spend some time with my son 19:54 and if I can't get pass this, 19:58 after Cheri's anointing, you know, 20:00 being this wonderful vessel of God, 20:03 then we'll see." 20:05 And so I actually went to this camp as a guest, 20:07 now I've never been a guest at a camp, in 25 years. 20:10 I've always been on the other side 20:11 providing the environment for people to find Jesus. 20:14 You know, and so, very unique to me 20:17 and I went there with an agenda. 20:19 I know Camp Ministries, 20:21 I know everything that goes on and I'm gonna bust this one. 20:23 Right. 20:24 I am gonna bust God 20:26 and everyday that I did something, 20:29 I'm not one of these people 20:31 that got zapped by the Holy Spirit and go, 20:33 "Hey, victory." 20:34 I wish I was. 20:36 Right. I wasn't. 20:37 It was transformational. 20:38 Everyday something happened 20:40 and as I'm doing high ropes with my son 20:43 and stuff and where they're working to build, 20:45 to work as a team, 20:46 it's about challenging relationships. 20:47 Right, as you're connecting with Him. 20:49 As we're connecting with Him, He got me through a challenge 20:51 when I says, "I can't do anymore, son." 20:52 He poured himself out and this is where 20:55 the parent became the child 20:56 and the child became the parent. 20:58 And he says, "Dad, I believe in you, you can do this. 21:01 I know you can." I'm like... 21:02 I love that, are you kidding me? 21:04 My son, I'm like, 21:05 this is my cool, calm and collected phlegmatic son, 21:08 you know, he just cruises in life, 21:09 'cause that's the way he handles special needs, 21:11 you know, and he's like excited, 21:12 "You can do that, you're so close." 21:14 We ended up being one of three parent childs 21:17 at that summer to make it to the end. 21:20 And I was exhausted and you know what? 21:21 Something happened inside my brain. 21:25 Whatever it was, 21:26 it actually let me know that I was truly valued... 21:29 That I was truly loved... 21:30 But you're not done yet. 21:32 And I'm not done yet 21:33 and my son saw something in me that I didn't. 21:35 So that was the anointing and then this experience, 21:38 it was an unleashing, 21:40 it was, it's time to come out of the closet, so to speak. 21:43 And my journey has gone from strength to strength 21:47 ever since then, 21:49 I now know that my identity is I truly believe 21:54 and I'm convicted that I am the son of the high living God. 21:58 And that Jesus is not only my Savior, 21:59 He's my big brother. 22:01 Amen. 22:02 As a consequence of that, my life has gone, 22:06 I hate in so many different ways that... 22:08 I saw and I've gotta say, 22:09 I saw you even switch seats with God, 22:12 it's like, I was driving my whole life, 22:15 I'm gonna switch seats with you and let you drive. 22:17 You know, that's the deception, 22:19 you know, there's a ministry in that 22:21 because we are actually 22:23 very good at justifying our actions 22:26 and actually we genuinely believe 22:27 that where we are at, 22:28 in our relationship with God and, 22:30 you know, for a lot of us, we're okay, we're at. 22:33 In my particular case, 22:35 I wore the mask so well 22:38 that I actually formed around it 22:41 and when I realized, 22:44 when I was stripped of everything 22:45 and when you saw me, 22:47 I was not only stripped, I was actually, dug my grave, 22:49 I was ready to jump in it. 22:50 Absolutely. 22:52 So I now have an appreciation for mental illness, 22:54 I totally get people that suffer from depression. 22:56 And... 22:58 They really truly believe that suicide is a option. 23:01 Yeah, yes. 23:02 And float with that. Yes, float with it. 23:04 Find comfort in that. Yeah, yeah. 23:06 And so now, to be on the other side, 23:08 to know that my identity is in Christ, 23:10 that my identity is in my Father God, 23:13 that I am part of the royal kingdom. 23:16 That's not just a theory to me, 23:18 that's not just something that I read in the Bible, 23:20 you know, it's not something that 23:21 I read in the inspired Word of God, 23:23 I am that person... 23:24 You know that. 23:26 I feel it, I sense it in the way 23:28 that God is leading in my life. 23:31 For example, 18 months down the track 23:34 and there are three of us, families, okay? 23:37 So, you know, Steve, Natalie and Davis. 23:38 Right. Yeah. 23:40 And, you know Connie... 23:41 Three families that so believe in family, 23:44 believe in healing... 23:45 Believe in God, they wanted to be real, 23:47 they're not satisfied with the superficial. 23:50 No, no, and of course, 23:52 John and Debbie Marshall, 23:54 the three families, we've got together 23:56 and there was an opportunity to purchase 23:59 a property and it's... 24:02 I think I can share this with you 24:04 for the sake of showing how good God is. 24:06 And He's God through 24:07 the good times and the bad times, 24:09 He's good. 24:10 So even before you say that, 24:12 I just want anybody to picture New Zealand. 24:15 Picture this beautiful place with beautiful beaches 24:21 and land and all that kind of stuff 24:23 and you have a opportunity 24:24 to now do whatever is that you 24:26 wanted to do in the superficial... 24:28 Yes. 24:29 You can do it in reality now. Yes, yeah. 24:31 Connected with God and so what happens? 24:34 So what happens? 24:35 First of all, back track, get back from America, 24:38 then we had five minutes, 24:40 five months to implement the first ever a, 24:42 parent child Christian camp in New Zealand, 24:45 it went down flawlessly. 24:47 And we had CEOs, 24:49 like the CEO of New Zealand 24:51 and other big companies, 24:52 down through the President 24:53 of one of the biggest gangs in New Zealand. 24:56 Amen. The Black Power. 24:58 And so if you wanna put it this way, 25:00 I know we're all probably vegetarians here 25:02 but I'm gonna use a meat and thing. 25:03 So if you're filet mignon or if you're a lamb chop 25:06 or if you're a New York strip or whatever you are, 25:10 you go into the grinder 25:11 and everybody comes out as hamburger. 25:13 Yeah. We're all equal. 25:15 Because everybody that come to this, 25:16 they all had one thing in common, 25:18 they wanted to beat a relationship 25:19 with their children. 25:20 So we're gonna break right now 'cause I'm gonna break a way, 25:23 we're gonna comeback in for a close 25:24 because you gotta hear this, 25:26 absolutely amazing, 25:29 how God turns it around and He can't turn it around 25:31 unless we get it and we finally say, 25:34 "Okay, I surrender, I will trust you." 25:37 We'll be right back. |
Revised 2016-11-07