Participants: Cheri Peters (Host), Cheryl McGuinnes
Series Code: CLR
Program Code: CLR00037A
|
00:09 Welcome to celebrate life in recovery.
00:11 I'm Cheri your host. 00:12 Today a want to introduce you to a friend of mine who 00:15 changed the way I look at forgiveness and healing. 00:17 Come join us and I pray that it changes you to. 00:47 This is my favorite part of the show, well actually I 00:50 always say that in the second half. 00:53 But we are going to do the second half the first half. 00:55 Does that may sense to anybody? 00:56 We are going to start out with the interview 00:58 right from the beginning. 00:59 I have a friend of mine here Cheryl McGuinness. 01:01 Cheryl I just want to say, I have been wanting you 01:04 on the show since we started. 01:05 Really - yeah. 01:07 Because you blessed me you've changed my life. 01:09 I'm excited to be here, I really am. 01:11 I have in my recovery, I work with a lot of people at 01:16 risk, a lot of people dealing with some heavy issues. 01:19 Coming out of drug addition, sex addiction and 01:22 dysfunctional homes, and all that kind of stuff. 01:24 And I'm so focused on that usually that I don't think 01:27 that there are people dealing with issues that 01:30 aren't from necessarily for most backgrounds. 01:32 But they get hit just as hard but in a whole different way. 01:35 So I would just like to who are you, not who are 01:39 you from when you got hit, but who are you, who were 01:42 you before all that happened? 01:43 Well, thank you for recognizing that Cheri, because so 01:46 many people, think that I am just 01:48 somebody since September eleventh, and I'm not 01:52 I'm a full person. 01:53 I started long ago, being a full person. 01:57 So thanks for the opportunity to share. 01:58 I've a regular family, I have three sisters we fight 02:05 like cats and dogs. 02:06 And I grew up in this Italian, Catholic home and it is 02:11 just normal stuff. 02:13 I met my husband when I was sixteen years old. 02:16 And we were high school sweethearts and fell in love. 02:21 Went to the junior prom. 02:22 He asked me to the senior prom actually just two days before. 02:25 What was he like? 02:27 In high school, I mean, what was he like? 02:30 Quiet-I bet that he was adorable? 02:31 He was adorable, he was quiet, he was shy. 02:34 He was athletic, had regular friends, you know there was- 02:42 Were you guys Christian then? 02:44 I came to know the Lord when I was thirteen years old. 02:48 And he was born and raised a Catholic. 02:51 We dated and fell in love and got married. 03:01 He entered the Navy and pursued that, 03:05 and was doing very well. 03:07 He was a top gun fighter pilot, kind of that dreamy 03:12 like woo Hoo, wow! 03:15 I can see that women were going like, oh how fun was that! 03:17 And you guys had some kids. 03:20 Yeah, I had two children-a boy and a girl perfect. 03:23 Jennifer and Tommy great, you know, I had one of each. 03:26 They didn't gang up on a us and I went through all the 03:30 normal stuff. 03:31 I had a career of my own, I was a manager in human 03:35 resources for a large company. 03:37 Lived away from my family were I was born and raised. 03:43 Moved away with him, started my career, 03:47 and he pursued his career. 03:49 Raised a couple of children and had all the struggles 03:53 that a family raising a young family brings. 03:58 Would you do, how do you afford to live on one income. 04:02 Well, you don't, you're used to a duel income and all 04:05 the challenges that come from having a dual income. 04:10 Raising children, my children were in daycare. 04:13 I'm almost embarrassed to say that they were in daycare 04:16 longer than I really would like to admit. 04:20 But they were there for hours, what were we to do? 04:23 You know we needed two incomes to live. 04:25 Which is really no different than it is today, but that 04:28 brings a whole set of challenges. 04:29 So what you are saying, we love each other we had a 04:32 normal life, just a normal life. 04:36 Normal struggles, on normal life living. 04:39 One day he is at work, you are doing a Bible study. 04:50 Yeah, I was doing a Bible study, doing my devotions 04:55 like I did every day. 04:56 One day my phone rang, and Tom was at work 05:01 like he usually is. 05:02 He had left the military, went into the airlines, 05:04 worked for American Airlines. 05:06 I took the kids to school, was out on my back deck doing my 05:12 homework for my Bible study that I was in at the time. 05:15 And I thought well, the phones ringing, 05:18 I ran in to answer it. 05:20 It was a friend asking to speak with, Tom. 05:23 I said he isn't home, he is on a trip. 05:25 He kept me on the phone, and that was kind of strange 05:29 because you know usually it's he isn't home he's on a trip, 05:32 I'll tell him you called. 05:33 But he kept me on the phone and we kind of 05:36 went back and forth. 05:37 And he said to you know what's going on in the world? 05:40 And I thought-what is he talking about. 05:42 To think I'm just sitting here eating bon bons, watching 05:45 TV all day long? 05:47 And I said no. 05:49 And he said well, a plane has been hijacked. 05:51 I thought what, where this is America planes don't get 05:55 hijacked here in America. 05:57 That kind of happens in other parts of the world 06:00 but not here. 06:01 After he told me that I found my television. 06:06 You went and turned on the TV? 06:07 Yeah, and I'm trying to find all the buttons to turn the 06:09 TV on with this thing to see what is going on. 06:12 All of a sudden I saw these images on television. 06:17 I'm thinking, this can't be Tom wouldn't 06:20 be involved with this. 06:21 I can't imagine that. 06:23 And before you know it, things got so crazy in my house. 06:27 People out of the blue, my neighbors, friends, people 06:32 from church, just started appearing at my house. 06:36 I'm thinking, what are you doing here, 06:38 what are you doing? 06:39 And you want to scream and say this has 06:43 nothing to do with us. 06:45 I had no idea what people were doing and I thought how 06:47 bizarre that everybody showing up at my house. 06:49 Because my husband certainly isn't involved with this. 06:53 But then my phone started ringing off the hook. 06:57 My children were calling me from school to find 07:01 out if dad was okay. 07:03 I started calling his pager, his cell phone. 07:08 All the emergency crew tracking numbers that he had left 07:11 with me in case something ever happened. 07:13 And I start calling all these things right! 07:16 Right, No responses. 07:18 No responses, what's going on, I can usually get him 07:20 And there was no response American airlines 07:25 had me on hold. 07:26 Then all of a sudden I saw the black car pull up to the 07:32 end of my driveway. 07:33 And I thought this can't be happening. 07:37 And I kind of put my hands up to say no - - stop. 07:42 Don't go, if I don't look at this black car, 07:47 maybe it's not really happening. 07:48 But three men got out of the car, and one of them was 07:52 the chief pilot from American airlines. 07:54 And he came up to my door and knocked, he came in. 07:59 I'm saying just go away, go away. 08:02 But he didn't so he came in. 08:04 I would just, I could just feel that sense of wanting to 08:07 scream, everybody stopped this is not my life, this is 08:11 not happening to us. 08:12 In my mind, and I think audibly I was screaming. 08:18 And just this isn't it. 08:20 But he didn't go away, he came in, he sat down. 08:23 I remember looking at him do you have something to say. 08:29 Even he was speechless as to how to say what 08:34 he had to deliver. 08:35 How to I tell her? 08:36 I was almost rude. 08:39 When I was saying do you have something to say to me? 08:42 It's like who are you sitting in my living room to, do 08:44 you have something to say to me. 08:45 He was like, you know, because there was these people 08:50 all around me. 08:51 And I'm thinking what can he possibly have to say to me. 08:54 I don't even know this man, He was pilot from 08:56 American Airlines. 08:58 He came in, and he said flight eleven, 09:00 your husband was on flight eleven. 09:02 It was flown into the World Trade Center, it was 09:07 hijacked, crashed and there were no survivors. 09:10 And I just started screaming hysterically. 09:14 There was another man, he was the pastor of my church. 09:17 Just holding me, hold me and I was just beating on 09:21 him, no, no, no. 09:23 God please don't call him home, don't call him home. 09:28 Just screaming that out hysterically. 09:32 You know, what is really interesting to me is that I 09:36 can't imagine coming up with the next thought. 09:39 Do you know what I mean? 09:40 It's like everything is ripped from me, what is the next 09:44 thought, what is the next breath, what do I do next?. 09:46 All I can think about it was after I caught my breath. 09:51 At that moment was my children. 09:54 Oh my gosh, my children, they are seeing this, they're 09:57 going to hear this. 09:59 So I quickly realized that I had to go tell my children 10:04 the same news that I had just heard. 10:07 And I thought how am I going to say, this, 10:10 what am I going to say. 10:11 So some dear friends drove me to their school right away. 10:15 My children-how old were they at this time? 10:18 They were fourteen and sixteen years old. 10:20 Tommy was fourteen, and he came into the principals 10:23 office first and then Jennifer. 10:26 They knew by the look on my face that I had horrible 10:30 news to share. 10:32 And I held them how we cried in just shock. 10:37 You know, we just melted and held each other. 10:41 And all I can say is Jesus will take care of us. 10:45 I didn't know how, I didn't know what we needed, 10:49 but all I can think of that moment is God 10:52 would take care of us. 10:53 Because of your faith was there just a 10:56 sense of knowing that? 10:57 Or were you just saying that to comfort them, 10:59 do you know? 11:00 No, that was the only thing in this whole world 11:02 that you knew- yeah that I knew. 11:05 Because when everything was ripped away the way 11:08 that it was, and I was a strong woman, 11:11 fairly strong and confident, secure. 11:14 I could take care situations I could take care of life. 11:20 But at that moment there was nothing that I could in 11:26 this world-would you pull from the strength I have, 11:29 because I was unprepared for this. 11:31 Yes, there was no strength, there was nothing in this 11:34 world that could possibly help except God was going to 11:39 have take care of us. 11:41 That is all that I could say to my children. 11:42 When you guys, because I'm sure they left with you, 11:47 yes, we left, we left. 11:49 And you know every single time you turn around, I mean, 11:54 I can't even imagine you being able to turn the TV on, and 11:57 turn around without somebody there trying to help. 12:01 I would still just want to scream, and now I can even 12:07 take this in, I don't want to take this in. 12:09 What happened, what was the next few days, 12:13 few weeks, few months. 12:14 In many ways it was a blur, our house filled with people. 12:20 There was things that were flooding, there were flowers, 12:24 my house, it was packed with flowers. 12:27 They just kept coming with flowers and fruit baskets. 12:30 People kept coming by that I didn't even know. 12:33 Television and cameras crews were at the end of my driveway. 12:37 They put up blockades on my street to keep the police 12:40 and the camera crews out. 12:42 It was such a scene that I was trying to protect my 12:49 children not even knowing what was going on. 12:52 You know, I forgot all about that because Tom, being the 12:57 pilot, I bet there were crews everywhere. 12:58 Somebody wanting to know, what you think, what you're 13:03 going through in no one in that first thing. 13:05 Tom was a very quiet man, didn't like any attention at 13:10 all, in fact, he would say if you're using my name for 13:16 God's glory okay do it, but beyond that I would be 13:18 really mad at you now, if you are talking about me. 13:20 For any other reason then bring glory to God. 13:24 He was a very quiet man. 13:25 So when you said that it was hard, I mean, even doing 13:31 normal things, getting up feeding your kids. 13:33 How did you start to stand up again? 13:38 How did that normal stuff start to happen? 13:42 You know, it didn't turn normal for a couple years 13:45 after, and it was a very slow arduous process of 13:50 healing that happened after. 13:52 It started, with I think, accepting help from people. 13:57 Being able to say please help. 14:03 Because you know, the natural process of us protecting 14:07 ourselves, if I don't accept it, if I don't hear you, 14:10 if I don't let you speak then maybe it 14:11 doesn't have to happen. 14:13 Maybe I can make it somehow not happen it will just go 14:15 away, go away a want to be normal again. 14:18 I want my life normal again. 14:19 That's what we wanted, but realizing that what wasn't 14:24 going to happen, and hitting rock bottom. 14:27 I don't believe I hit rock bottom when I 14:30 first heard the news. 14:31 I believe I hit rock bottom a few weeks after. 14:35 I would imagine that you just went into shock when 14:37 you heard the news, the shock I cannot feel my skin, 14:41 don't feel that it's white right now, don't ask me 14:42 to think, because I don't even if I can remember 14:45 how to think right now. 14:46 That is exactly right. 14:48 It wasn't until I hit rock bottom that 14:52 healing really could help. 14:53 And you know you think with all the images on TV, 14:57 and all the talk of September eleventh, and everything 15:00 that happened after, in the wake after, I didn't hit 15:04 rock bottom for weeks if not months. 15:07 What was rock bottom, and what you mean by that? 15:10 You know, I think it was different for me and my 15:13 children, when we each hit rock-bottom. 15:17 And I think for me realizing and dealing with the 15:23 pain of losing a loved one, and what 15:25 they may have gone through. 15:27 When those final moments, thinking through that 15:30 for me was rock-bottom. 15:32 It had nothing else to do except to know the 15:36 final moments of Tom's life. 15:39 What happened was he had a lot of pain, thinking 15:43 through what might have happened in the cockpit 15:45 was my rock-bottom for me. 15:47 I believe that it was different for 15:49 my son and my daughter. 15:50 How was it for them? 15:52 It was hard, it was very hard. 15:54 For different reasons, my son needed his dad to be his 16:01 role model and love him the way that a man does and teach 16:06 him all those manly things. 16:08 All of a sudden, Tommy found himself with people saying 16:12 to him oh you're the new man of the house. 16:14 You are the man of the house and he is fourteen years 16:16 old and he was thinking my dad just started to teach me 16:19 about how to do things and then he is gone. 16:24 Then Tommy felt the weight of how to 16:27 take care of me. 16:28 And I was going through the struggle of I don't want you 16:30 take care of me Tommy, I want to you to live your life. 16:32 A watch to be a child- Be a child. 16:35 Don't feel like you need to take care of everything. 16:37 You know, on top of that, because I am trying to figure 16:42 out how you are pulling all of this together. 16:44 How you are trying to not let them grow up too fast and 16:47 have all this stuff happening around you. 16:49 Because people didn't let you guys go. 16:52 I mean, you were not let go for a second. 16:55 No we weren't, really for me, although it was a 16:59 public tragedy, the public actually embraced us 17:04 as a family and loved us. 17:06 And really, we opened up our heart. 17:10 In many ways to be almost sucked up to the love 17:14 of the nation and the compassion of the nation 17:16 that poured into us. 17:18 So you literally felt that coming back. 17:22 I really did, once I can slowly stand up. 17:27 And it was an up-and-down thing, it wasn't an okay 17:30 I'm standing up. I'm Good. 17:31 It was a long process, very long process for healing. 17:36 To me how it is you get the normal every day things, 17:43 getting up making breakfast, and just doing that routine 17:46 thing, them going back to school. 17:47 I mean all that, I can't imagine any of that happening. 17:52 How do you say okay, now we're going to get up and eat. 17:57 I had to develop a routine, and it's what worked for me. 18:04 Because I really didn't have anybody helping me to say do 18:11 this to that do this. 18:12 But I had to develop a routine that worked, so that when 18:16 I open my eyes in the morning. 18:17 I would get up in the very first thing I would say was, 18:20 Thank you God for a new day. 18:22 Thank you God for helping me through last night, because I 18:25 would have cried myself to sleep. 18:27 And when I woke up, and the night was over, it was 18:30 like thank you God it's another new day, and even if 18:33 there were clouds in the sky I would think. 18:35 Thank you God for a new day. 18:37 And then I would make my bed so I wouldn't crawl 18:41 back into my bed. 18:42 And I would stay out of my bed. 18:45 Literally force yourself on not going back to bed today. 18:49 Right, I would get up and would wake up my children. 18:52 You know, the first time we worked together. 18:54 I remember you saying that to even to do your devotions. 18:57 I couldn't concentrate. 18:58 You know if you gave something to read to give me 19:02 comfort, I couldn't read it. 19:04 All I could do in the beginning was look at picture 19:06 books, the beautiful pictures and think wow this is 19:10 God's creation how beautiful it is. 19:12 I love nature to this day, I love nature. 19:15 It lifts me to be outdoors and seeing God's creation. 19:18 I would take long walks at the beach because it was 19:22 soothing and healing for me to be God's, in nature. 19:25 To me, that was God's creation and I am just that way 19:28 You know! 19:29 So if you were going to encourage someone right now, 19:33 that is struggling with that kind of thing, a death 19:35 of a loved one, especially your partner. 19:37 What would say, is get up every day, make your bed, 19:41 get outside. 19:43 You know from me getting outside, taking one step 19:46 and praising God through it. 19:47 I literally would say thank you God. 19:51 Did you ever get to the point to say God is 19:53 what is up with that. 19:54 Because there was a point, and I don't know if it, 19:56 I love God and He has blessed me through the horrendous 20:01 healing, but there was never a time 20:04 when you said what's up? 20:05 I did, no I did, I went through anger. 20:08 After I did after a point, step-by-step breath by breath 20:12 saying, God I can't breathe. 20:14 Because I would have these awful anxiety and panic 20:16 attacks, and I could just not breath after. 20:19 And I would be saying God fill me with breath, 20:24 because I can't breathe, you know. 20:25 And I as I healed a little bit. 20:28 I found some strength to go to the 20:30 World Trade Center's site. 20:32 But that wasn't until eight months after 20:34 the tragedy happened. 20:36 I had to be there, you know, what before that 20:41 I had no desire, did want to see it. 20:43 I don't want to see all that rubble. 20:45 No, I didn't, but eight months after I felt 20:48 this desire to go. 20:50 I went there the way that it all happened was. 20:55 It was kind of strange because my daughter saw that 21:00 I had all this anxiety inside of me and she said mom, 21:03 what are you nervous about? 21:04 Why are you bothered so much? 21:07 I said because Jennifer I do not know if I'm going to 21:10 relive in my mind all the things that I thought 21:13 I put behind me. 21:15 You know, the plane, what was happening to the people on 21:18 the ground, I didn't want to relive that again. 21:21 I didn't want to have a mental breakdown, and I thought, 21:24 I may be was going to. 21:25 I didn't want to fall apart. 21:26 I didn't want to, I mean, sometimes when you fall 21:28 part you don't know if you're going to come 21:29 back together again. 21:31 When you're reduced to dust particles, as I call it, 21:36 like will I really get stuck together, will my 21:40 heart be like put together again? 21:41 So Jennifer said mom, dad told me once that our body and 21:49 soul fit together like a hand in a glove. 21:51 And she said mom, dad said, when we die that our body 21:56 goes to the ground and then we're with Christ. 21:58 The other next conscious thought is I'm with God. 22:01 Exactly, so, she said mom when you go there know that 22:03 daddy is not there in whatever you see there. 22:06 So I took that and I thought okay, I can go. 22:10 When I was standing there, it was like this pit that 22:14 to me represented the evil of mankind. 22:16 It was the debris of the airplane, the dust of the, 22:20 of the building. 22:21 It was awful, and to me, it represented all the ugliness 22:25 and the sins of mankind. 22:28 But off on the hill, you may recall there was this metal 22:31 structure that was erected by the rescue workers. 22:33 And it was in the shape of a cross. 22:36 And as I'm looking in this pit I also saw to the side 22:40 this cross, and I thought to myself, that God here 22:47 I am at the foot of the cross. 22:49 Here I am Lord, what you want me to do? 22:53 I felt this rage and this anger inside of me. 22:57 It's like God, they murdered my husband, 22:59 my children don't have a dad now. 23:05 And I'm standing here in all this debris. 23:07 And I'm standing here into the ugliness and the evil, 23:09 to me, of all mankind. 23:12 What do you want me to do God? 23:13 And I so clearly heard Him say to me, 23:16 I want you to forgive them. 23:18 And I thought God my life is a mess, 23:22 how can I forgive them? 23:23 He said, it's not easy to forgive them. 23:26 But don't forget Cheryl, my daughter. 23:29 I for gave you. 23:31 I went through pain and suffering for your sins. 23:36 I thought God, You know, You're right, You did, You died 23:41 for me and You took all my sins and You for gave me. 23:44 And if you are my Lord, I bow down and surrender my 23:48 life to You than how can I not forgive the terrorist? 23:53 For murdering and causing me and my children, 23:56 all this evil, and our nation. 23:58 But I wasn't to the nation part, yet it was personal. 24:02 It was like I need to get out of this place. 24:04 So I say God, I truly do surrender my life to you again, 24:12 and with every breath that I have, that You give to me, 24:16 I will serve You every day of my life. 24:19 If You will help me forgive the people, the men, 24:23 women, the country. 24:25 Whoever did this, if you will help me to forgive the 24:28 terrorists for what they did. 24:30 Then I will serve you because You are my Lord. 24:34 And I serve You and no matter what 24:36 happens here on earth. 24:38 No matter what people do to me, no matter what 24:41 brings me to my knees Lord, You are my Lord. 24:45 I was serve you with every breath You give to me 24:48 but help me to forgive the terrorists. 24:50 So let me just ask you now, because in that moment, 24:52 and I had those moments where God so present that saying 24:57 that you know He is going to do it. 24:59 You know that He is going to follow through, you know 25:01 that He is going to give you the ability and teach you 25:04 how to forgive. 25:05 With that process like because when you 25:06 walk away that moment. 25:07 You're saying, what was I saying. 25:08 I don't even know how to forgive, I don't have 25:10 that much, I'm not capable of doing that. 25:14 So how did God teach you? 25:17 God taught me moment by moment, day by day, that 25:24 as I lived, and as I prayed out to God every day. 25:29 Help me to forgive the terrorists for what they did. 25:32 Strengthen me Lord. 25:33 So you literally, and this is just for people that are 25:36 struggling with that are watching us Cheryl, they are 25:38 saying, You know what. 25:39 I've had different issues, I've had molest issues, 25:43 someone murdered my daughter, or I lost a child, 25:47 or I had an abortion, or whatever and forgiveness 25:50 is forgiveness, is forgiveness. 25:51 We are looking at your story, but I'm thinking 25:53 anybody that has to deal with forgiveness, you 25:56 are saying, say out loud. 25:58 I forgive the terrorists. 26:01 I forgive the person that raped or molested me. 26:04 I forgive and your saying say it out loud, 26:06 at first did you feel it? 26:08 Did you feel that? 26:10 No, no, I was afraid to say it at first. 26:13 I was afraid, and I think it was more 26:16 my anger and my fear. 26:20 Because you want somebody to pay first-yeah. 26:22 I did I really did it first. 26:25 It's like this isn't fair, this happened to me and 26:28 I am an innocent victim. 26:29 My children are innocent, why us? 26:32 You know what I'm going to jump in, because I'm going to 26:35 go ahead were going to take a break and come back. 26:37 I don't want to cut this process short, because the next 26:43 thing that you discovered about God and forgiveness 26:46 literally changed my life. 26:47 Change the way a look at things, change the way, 26:49 because I thought there's certain things in my life 26:53 that I just can't forgive. 26:54 In the first time I listened to Cheryl talk about what 26:59 happened to Tom, and what happened to the family. 27:01 I realize God stop me from ever say that again. 27:04 Forgiveness is something that God teaches us. 27:08 We are not capable in and of ourselves, but man 27:11 does it bring joy and healing into your life and 27:14 God knows that so. 27:15 Stay with us and we're are going to come back and 27:17 look at this whole thing about forgiveness. 27:18 Further stay with Cheryl on her journey, and just be 27:23 blessed, be blessed. 27:25 We will be right back! |
Revised 2014-12-17