Participants: Cheri Peters (Host), Cheryl McGuinnes
Series Code: CLR
Program Code: CLR00037B
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00:13 You know, I am going to recap a little bit about what we
00:16 talked about the first half because for some that have 00:19 just tuned in, or to just kind of set this up again. 00:23 Your husband was a pilot Tom McGuinness, who was the 00:29 first plane that was flown into the 00:31 World Trade Center during 9/11. 00:33 So we talked about, even you guys before then. 00:36 And I love the fact, sometimes I think Cheryl, 00:40 somebody talks about you, I hear your name mentioned. 00:42 When I hear about the event, it's as if 00:45 you just kind of existed from 9/11 on. 00:47 You guys had this incredible life before then, 00:50 and God has really poured into you since then. 00:53 Umm go-ahead - - He has. 00:56 And he brought me really, brought me from a beautiful 01:01 life to really having my life turned to ashes. 01:05 Now He has raised up something in me, something entirely 01:09 new out of the ashes of my life and taken me beyond what 01:14 I could think or imagine. 01:15 And you have joy in your life again. 01:18 I have joy in it is truly unstoppable. 01:21 Isn't that amazing. 01:22 I want you, because I think what God had 01:26 show you and to teach you from the very beginning 01:29 of this whole thing. 01:30 The beginning of your healing process is how do you 01:32 forgive and you were saying, I have to forgive terrorists 01:35 who literally changed the country, murdered my husband, 01:39 trashed my immediate family, but changed the country. 01:42 And I have to learn forgiveness. 01:44 I really want to ask you, what did that look like and 01:47 how did you learn that? 01:48 Because it is not something simple. 01:50 No, it isn't. 01:52 I had to come to the point of realizing that 01:55 forgiveness is not something that I can do. 01:59 Myself in my own strength. 02:01 I'm not going to muster it up from within me. 02:03 No, it's not like I can say, I'm going be strong 02:05 today and I'm going to forgive them. 02:07 It wasn't like that, it was every day after I had a 02:12 renewed experience with Christ. 02:17 I said, Lord help me to forgive the terrorists 02:20 for what they did, help me Lord so that 02:22 I can serve You more fully. 02:24 It was at that point that every day I would pray, 02:28 just Lord help me to forgive the people who did this. 02:31 Lord help me to forgive the people who did this and I 02:33 would just say it over and over. 02:35 Pray that, cry out to the Lord. 02:37 Cause just let me ask you, and I hope this doesn't 02:41 stunt you because what came in my head just then 02:43 that during that process you are looking at continued 02:50 terrorism, they are holding hostages and 02:52 sawing heads off on screens. 02:55 You know, what I mean is that this was an incredibly 02:58 violent, vicious time for this country. 03:02 You know what I mean, and it literally has 03:04 kind of stayed with us. 03:06 And the reason I want to ask you specifically how 03:10 you dealt with those images is because, when I first 03:12 heard you speak, and I first heard your talk about 03:14 forgiveness, you started making my dysfunction in the 03:19 past, that I was molested since, 03:21 I was three months old. 03:22 Homeless by twelve - thirteen. 03:24 You started giving me hope that maybe God can 03:27 teach me how to forgive. 03:28 So I don't want anybody to trivialize what 03:35 God brought you to as where you could say, 03:38 I do forgive. 03:40 Literally, it is my first thought now, 03:44 not my last thought. 03:46 It was a process for me and I can't say that there 03:50 was step one, two, three, four that I did. 03:53 But I do know that something happened in my head, 03:58 that said, Lord, I will forgive but help me. 04:02 Help me to be able to do this, and as I prayed out, 04:06 and as I cried out to the Lord - 04:08 Every time those feelings came up. 04:10 Every time I either saw an image, or every time I 04:13 would go back down into that pit. 04:16 Every time I would get angry or a root of bitterness 04:20 started to kind of take hold of my heart. 04:23 I'd say Lord, please I give this to You. 04:26 Help me to forgive them. 04:27 Help me Lord, and that is all I could say. 04:30 I didn't have any really biblical scriptures to 04:33 say over and over. 04:35 All I could say, because this was a year or two 04:38 after the tragedy happened. 04:40 It took that long to even - to get to that point. 04:43 It was a long process to even get to that point that I 04:46 could really feel like you know. 04:49 Maybe I have forgiven. 04:51 And I remember sitting in a hotel room and doing my 04:53 Women's Ministry, I was finishing a Woman's Retreat 04:56 that I was doing. 04:57 I remember I was in my Bible reading something that 05:02 took me even deeper, and showed me there were levels 05:05 of forgiveness, and levels of healing. 05:08 And I remember there saying to the Lord, Lord. 05:12 I can forgive them, but I also remember the Lord 05:16 showing me, Him saying something to the effect of; 05:21 I needed you to forgive, so that I could 05:24 use you more fully. 05:26 Because if you didn't forgive, then you would have a 05:30 hardened heart and bitterness and anger all 05:33 built up inside of you. 05:34 How could I use, you to go out and share the good 05:37 word that I have for you. 05:39 How could I use you to go show the world that there 05:43 is a light inside of you that is glowing, 05:46 that is filled beyond belief. 05:49 How can I use you if that bitterness takes hold? 05:52 And when you say that what is really interesting to me 05:56 is that I think a lot of folks think that God caused 06:00 this so that you could learn this. 06:01 And I so believe the Bible when the Bible says, 06:04 I plan evil for no one. 06:05 I am not that kind of God. 06:07 What God says is unfortunately there are 06:10 people that are trying to deal with these kinds of 06:12 tragedies with NO God. 06:14 I can't imagine that, God said; you know when the 06:17 Devil hits you or the world hits you with these 06:19 things as God I will walk with you. 06:22 I will yoke up with you, I will teach you to step 06:25 into the human waters coming right from the throne 06:28 room of God, until you get this. 06:30 And that is where our hope comes from, not that 06:33 we don't get hit. 06:34 That's exactly right-when I do get hit-that's exactly right. 06:37 And what God showed me with the whole forgiveness thing 06:41 that I had to go through, is that first of all when I 06:45 was praying; it was Lord help me so I can heal me, help me! 06:49 But then as time went on, and I received His healing power 06:54 through His Holy Spirit, I realize that there was 06:58 another level of healing. 06:59 It was more of me being able to reach out to others 07:04 and help them heal through their own tragedies. 07:07 As you see their tragedies in their eyes, when they are 07:09 stuck, don't you see it? 07:11 I see it, I see that if they don't forget they will 07:13 not go beyond their tragedy, their hurt, 07:16 and they're pain. 07:18 Can you do me a favor and just look at the camera 07:19 and tell someone that. 07:20 The importance of that. 07:21 It is absolutely critical beyond a shadow of a doubt 07:25 that you must forgive whoever it is that hurt you. 07:28 One way to do that is to reach out and help others 07:31 and to pray out to God; say, God and help me so that 07:35 I can help others. 07:36 And God will miraculously come in, and heal you 07:40 through the power of His Holy Spirit, so that you 07:42 can reach out to others, and help others heal. 07:44 And it becomes a cycle, a good cycle, a positive 07:48 cycle of one person helping another person through 07:52 the strength and the power of the Lord. 07:54 And it is hard to explain to somebody 07:58 how incredible that is. 07:59 It's freeing it is I am not held captive with the 08:03 terrorist, wanted to not only killed three thousand people 08:05 on September 11, they wanted to take down the families, the 08:10 nation and cause chaos, and fear. 08:14 Fear did not only didn't grip me, it didn't grip my children. 08:19 We were brought to our knees for while, but through 08:23 the power of forgiveness, through the power of God's 08:26 love, we were taken to a whole new place. 08:29 And now we are able to reach out to others in amazing 08:33 ways that can give encouragement. 08:35 And now, I tell you know - 08:37 Because you do Women's Retreats, you go and speak to groups. 08:41 Every time you go out, I am sure you see people 08:44 locked in that bitterness. 08:45 There are people out there my story touches. 08:49 Not only, I would say that the people that were 08:52 touched by 9/11, there were so many because it struck our 08:56 nation here, but there are people that are hurting 08:59 out there from addictions, from being abused, from broken 09:05 marriages, to tragedy that strikes, one after another. 09:10 People come and hear a message of hope, 09:13 of how God worked in my life. 09:15 And I am able to say that God will do the same thing 09:18 in your life as well if you will first trust Him. 09:22 To let Him show you the way to have the fullness of life. 09:26 When you say, you said during the break, that one of the 09:31 things that you love to speak on is the forgiveness; when a 09:37 prisoner even says, how can you forgive me? 09:41 I know somebody that literally raped and stabbed to 09:44 death this child and the mother is standing there 09:47 saying I don't know how to forgive them. 09:49 And the prisoner is saying, I don't know how you can 09:51 forgive me, talk on that. 09:53 All I can say to that is that I can't forgive the person 09:59 that's stabbed or did what they did to my person. 10:04 But I know that there is somebody bigger, 10:06 and that person is Christ. 10:08 And Christ can forgive and through me, I am the skin, I am 10:13 the hands and through the power of Christ, I can forgive 10:17 you for what horrible thing that you did to me, to my 10:20 children, and I can forgive what you did to our nation. 10:23 Because I know - - in that sense beg you to accept 10:27 that forgiveness and go to Christ yourself. 10:29 Yeah, amen! 10:31 You know, I know that you have, your children have 10:38 healed, they are in college. 10:40 Talk about just that process of standing back up and God 10:44 just pouring joy into your life. 10:45 You know, we are talking about this whole thing again, 10:48 which put you back in that place, 10:50 but you are just one on fire woman. 10:53 Do you know what I mean, and full of joy and life, 10:57 your family has been restored, so let's talk about 11:00 that a little bit and then I want 11:01 to open it up for questions. 11:02 All I can say is that I love the Lord. 11:06 I truly love the Lord, and when I know that the 11:11 feeling deep in my heart is to serve Him, then it 11:16 gives me strength to share the story of my past, 11:18 but I go beyond that as well. 11:21 My children see because I am doing well, they truly 11:26 have a joy in their heart knowing that 11:29 I am set free from any past pain. 11:32 It doesn't mean that as a wounded healer. 11:34 You're not, you don't feel that pain, because every time 11:38 I open my heart up and tell 11:40 that story I, do feel the pain of it. 11:43 But I also feel the joy and the thankfulness and the hope 11:48 that I have because of my relationship to the Lord. 11:51 And that takes precedence over anything that could 11:55 possibly happen to me in this world. 11:57 So my children - and when God says, even in Scripture. 12:00 When God says, you know, all things turn out for good 12:03 to those that love God. 12:04 In the middle of the tragedy, you are thinking what does that 12:07 mean, what does that mean? 12:08 Yeah, it means that when you are in the middle of a 12:12 tragedy, now I know that in all things 12:16 God works for His good purpose. 12:18 I guess I had to learn truly with that scripture meant. 12:22 And now I know, and the next time I come into a trial. 12:26 I think it will be easier for me to gain even more strength. 12:31 But in the beginning - but you know that God is right there. 12:34 God hasn't forgotten me, that even though I've been 12:37 hit, even though I can't even stand up, I know that there is a 12:40 God that cares about me. 12:42 And loves me tremendously, yes. 12:45 So as you're standing up, you're standing up, your 12:47 daughter and your son, the healing that has happened 12:49 in your family, things are quieting down, 12:52 people aren't so much at the door. 12:54 New normalcy is evolving slowly over time. 12:58 Whom you are as a woman of God. 13:00 I am just discovering that God made me not to be 13:03 Not to be My 9/11 widow forever. 13:08 God made me to be His servant. 13:11 To love him, He made me as a woman full, 13:15 independent, kind, generous. 13:18 He made me the way that I am full of joy, and I needed 13:23 to except that and to get to that place fully healed 13:27 before, I was ready for the next step. 13:30 Whatever that next up was going to be I had 13:33 to get to that place. 13:34 And it was a journey out of the ashes to get, to be, 13:37 and realize that I'm God's creation, and He loves 13:40 me just the way that I am. 13:41 And you know, what is interesting to me is that God, 13:44 I mean, you fell in love with someone. 13:47 I did - what is that in who was that. 13:49 I did, I did - He must just be awesome. 13:52 You know, when I got to a certain place in my life, 13:56 after 9/11, I in the most ordinary way, God brought the 14:03 most extraordinary man into my life. 14:06 My car was broken, and this man, Doug, was the 14:15 manager of a body shop. 14:17 I took my car to the body shop with all of the fear 14:20 that I was going to get taken advantage of, because I 14:23 don't know a thing about cars. 14:24 And I start talking to him 14:26 and I was literally stuttering about what's wrong with my car. 14:30 He said well tell me what it's doing and he's 14:32 saying tell me if it's like going burr burr burr, 14:35 and what noise is it making? 14:37 I'm trying to imitate the noises, 14:38 and explained the problem. 14:40 And guys really want hear the noise. 14:41 They do and you feel like such a, you know, a weirdo. 14:46 Well Doug was extremely charming 14:49 from the very beginning. 14:50 I explain my car problem and he fixed it. 14:53 From there, I think seeds were planted inside of 14:57 him that he said that he thought I was kind of cute. 15:00 I didn't find that out until years later. 15:03 It was that sound you were making. 15:04 Yeah, it must have been, Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha! 15:07 It must have been. 15:08 So little while later you end up falling in love. 15:13 A little while later, a couple years later, 15:15 he asked me out, he would call me periodically just to say how 15:20 is your car running and I thought nothing of it. 15:22 I thought, what a nice guy to ask me 15:24 how my car is running. 15:25 Then after time went on, when I was ready, 15:30 he asked me out on a date. 15:34 I said okay and I was so excited 15:36 I felt like a little kid. 15:37 I was so excited that I thought wow, 15:41 he's really different, and he's really unique, 15:45 and he's a nice charming man. 15:48 I thought yeah, I'd like to and I felt as 15:50 nervous as a little kid. 15:52 I felt like I was, - I don't how old I was at the time, 15:55 I must have been forty five. 15:59 Forty five years old, I felt like a little 16:01 kid all over again. 16:03 With butterflies and excitement that I was going to get to 16:06 go out on a date. 16:07 It was kind of weird. 16:10 You guys got married shortly after that. 16:12 We got married, probably a year later. 16:16 Um yes - and you know, I want to introduce him, because 16:20 to me, I think the most incredible thing that God does, 16:23 is let me take what the devil planned to 16:26 just take you out with. 16:28 An I am going to bring you all way around, 16:30 restoration you are going to fall in love. 16:34 You're going to stand up and your 16:35 kids are going to heal. 16:37 All is kind of things you don't even think about. 16:39 It is so far beyond what you can imagine. 16:41 And then this incredible guy comes into your life. 16:44 And even Doug, I want to just say God bless you. 16:46 But when you met her what was your first take 16:49 on her as a woman. 16:50 She was a very lovely woman - 16:52 she is adorable - she is. 16:54 She really is, I was very blessed. 16:55 But it didn't start off so well, when I first 17:00 asked her out, she dropped the phone. 17:01 So, that kind of got me a little tongue-tied, 17:07 but it turned out great. 17:09 She is a wonderful woman, God loving woman, 17:12 and she's very strong. 17:14 She is a full woman for sure. 17:19 And you were like a race car driver. 17:20 I do, Yep! 17:21 I think that is the coolest thing ever. 17:24 It is wonderful, she travels with me and 17:27 I travel with her. 17:28 We spread the word around the world, 17:30 and it is just wonderful. 17:32 You were thinking about putting a race car together to 17:35 work with at risk kids. 17:36 Tell us a little bit about that. 17:38 Yes, we'd like to put a car together and cater to 17:42 children that have a need, that have desire, a wish to 17:46 be involved in some sort of racing. 17:48 And what is really interesting is a lot of at-risk-kids 17:52 they don't have a lot of men in their life, they are not doing 17:54 something that cool. 17:55 And just the fact that you offer this to them is 17:57 going to bring healing at a level that a lot of 17:59 people are not going to understand. 18:01 We are hoping it will bring a lot of blessings 18:02 to a lot of children. 18:03 How cool is that. 18:04 You know what I know that you have brought so much joy 18:09 into Cheryl's life and thank you for that. 18:11 Thank you, she is a wonderful lady with a great 18:14 sense of humor and full of it. 18:16 Way fun, how cool is he. 18:17 How cool is he Cheryl? 18:19 So we has more questions Pastor Aaron, 18:21 you had a question. 18:22 Yes I did. 18:24 When you were describing God speaking to you, asking you 18:27 to forgive when you were at the crash site. 18:29 What had gone through your mind about forgiveness, 18:32 up to that point. 18:33 Was that really the first time that 18:35 that idea had come into your mind? 18:37 That is a great question. 18:39 It really is the first time that I could even fathom 18:43 thinking about forgiveness. 18:45 I, before that I, no I wasn't there. 18:50 I was just thinking how the world am I possibly 18:52 going to rebuild - how can I survive this. 18:55 My life, how can I survive it. 18:56 Yeah, I didn't know, I thought, what am I to do now? 18:59 What I was doing at the foot of the cross was saying, 19:02 Lord, what do I do now. 19:04 What am I supposed to do, and that is when He said; 19:07 for you to do anything you need to forgive. 19:09 For two reasons 1. you have to heal. 19:12 And 2. if you don't heal, I can't use you to go do the work 19:17 that I plan for you, long, long ago. 19:19 What I got to say pastor is, cause you are pastoring in 19:24 churches, congregations working with have that kind 19:27 of bitterness and unforgiveness. 19:28 So do you come across that, I mean, because she is 19:32 talking about how difficult it was for her to even say God, 19:35 what do you mean forgive. 19:37 Do you come across that in your churches? 19:40 Yes it is amazing when you are dealing with someone 19:43 and they tell you if you don't know where to look, 19:45 look for bitterness and look at forgiveness. 19:47 It is amazing how in our lives, we are trying to get 19:51 restoration from someone who can't give it to us. 19:54 Until we realize that Jesus is the only One who can 19:56 give it, even myself falling into that trap. 20:00 It is amazing to realize that truly freedom 20:04 does come through forgiveness. 20:06 I do run into a lot of people who deal with. 20:08 How do I forgive. 20:10 And I get asked that a lot. 20:12 People say, and they will tell me these 20:15 tragedies have happened. 20:16 I have had these awful things, horrendous 20:19 things happen to me. 20:20 But they say, I just can't get to that point. 20:23 I say, I know I couldn't do it either on my own. 20:26 But it was through God, through His Holy Spirit 20:29 that He gave me the strength to do it. 20:31 And it was nothing that I could do. 20:33 Truly is above what we are capable of 20:37 wrapping our mind around. 20:39 I could not comprehend, it in fact, I was afraid 20:41 to talk out publicly about forgiving the terrorist 20:45 for what they did. 20:46 The very first time I did it because I thought that 20:48 people are going to look at me like I have two heads. 20:50 But that was kind of how God used me to figure out 20:56 what forgiveness was all about, 20:57 was to speak publicly about it. 20:59 As I did that, the more I did that, 21:03 the more I understood about His power. 21:06 It is His grace, it is not what we did, not what we 21:10 deserve, but it is God working through us and giving 21:14 us what we can't give to our self. 21:17 I didn't have the strength to forgive the 21:19 terrorist for what they did. 21:20 And it wasn't up to me. 21:22 God paid the price when He did what He did for us on the cross. 21:27 So when I take my focus off of whatever it is that happens to 21:31 me here, then I put my focus on Christ and that eternal 21:36 prospective and I say God You are the Lord, not me. 21:41 I am Your servant, and when I got that relationship 21:44 right and understood that fully, 21:46 then I could say God is not up to me. 21:50 But it is You working through me, that will give me the 21:53 strength and power to forgive. 21:54 So please help me do that. 21:55 Was there ever a point where you just felt absolute 21:59 joy at the level of forgiveness He poured into you? 22:02 I did, I did, I could sit in an airport after I would 22:06 speak, and all chaos could be breaking out around me. 22:12 I would have this incredible feeling of peace and joy, 22:15 thinking I just served my God, my Lord. 22:19 And that is just an incredible experience 22:23 having that this peace that transcends 22:26 understanding and thinking wow. 22:28 What I just did is unzipped my heart publicly 22:32 and shared about a terrible tragedy, but I served God. 22:35 Now I am filled with a peace that is 22:39 almost ill-repressible it's like this joy that is just, 22:43 I've got to talk about it 22:45 because I thank God. 22:47 It heals every fiber of your being, 22:49 as you're doing it heals. 22:50 You know that I have sat there in that place in every 22:53 part of your being just feels like God is washing again, 22:56 that healing waters, over every part. 22:59 And He really did bring me to the still waters, 23:01 that He talks about in the Psalms 23 where He says; 23:06 know that I will take you to those still waters - 23:09 Though you walk through the valley of the shadow of death. 23:10 Yeah, and He really did show me that He is the One that 23:17 calms the storms and brings us to those peaceful places. 23:20 And when we walk through those valleys that He is the 23:24 One that is going to pull us up without fear. 23:27 It is His strength when He reaches down and says I will 23:31 heal you, I'm the one that will heal your broken heart. 23:33 I will never leave you, even though earthly people will 23:37 leave you under different circumstances, I will never 23:41 leave you or forsake you. 23:43 I am the One who is going to heal your broken heart. 23:45 I thought God, I will put my trust in you every day. 23:49 I know that in your strength and your power, You will 23:54 give me all that I need. 23:55 You will give me the provisions that I need. 23:57 And God has provided in amazing ways for me to go 24:00 out and serve Him and tell others about the hope 24:03 that we have in Him. 24:04 You know when you say that, if somebody hasn't seen 24:08 your presentation, the first time I saw you I just 24:10 couldn't believe, I am listening to this story. 24:14 I am, was into this tragedy. 24:16 Yet I'm watching even through the story and you're telling 24:19 about this joy that comes out and I feel healing 24:22 happening in my own life. 24:23 But I know you are seeing that in my eyes 24:25 that healing is happening to you too. 24:26 It is, it is! 24:27 And I think how cool is that. 24:28 That is so cool and even today it is a contagious thing. 24:34 I don't how to describe it, except that I am able to 24:37 use my story, the life story that God Almighty 24:41 planted inside of me long ago. 24:43 When I can use that and lift and encourage 24:45 somebody else, by listening to them sharing their pain 24:49 in their own life story. 24:52 I am so lifted because I can then say and join with them 24:56 by saying; praise God for what He did in your life, for 25:00 what He did my life, lets go on together, praise God! 25:02 So, we are ending this show right now. 25:06 So I'm going to first say, God bless you for coming and 25:10 thank you for coming. 25:11 I want you to say to someone who hasn't spoke out loud, 25:15 yet, any of that kind of stuff yet, the importance 25:17 of speaking out loud. 25:18 Speak it! 25:19 It is so important to speak it to share the story that 25:22 God gave to you no matter how broken that story may 25:25 feel at some point share it and give God glory through 25:29 it because God will truly heal your broken heart when 25:33 you look to Him and trust Him with all your heart. 25:35 And as you speak; what is really interesting, is that 25:38 even in my story, which is so different than yours, is 25:42 that saying it out loud all the sudden you realize 25:44 that somebody else has a story. 25:46 That something else has gone through a struggle, 25:48 and somebody else. 25:49 All of a sudden, we are united in this journey, 25:53 but more than that. 25:54 We are blessed by this God that says 25:56 I will stand you up. 25:58 I will Yoke up with you, you are not going to have 26:00 to go through this alone. 26:02 But when we don't speak it. 26:03 We just kind of let all that fester and it kills us. 26:05 It kills what's inside of you yes. 26:08 There is power, in talking about your life journey 26:11 that God gave to you. 26:13 Looking to Him, there is power in that. 26:16 I am so lifted by hearing your story and all that your 26:20 are doing around the world. 26:22 I just praise God that He is the One that causes and 26:27 uses all that we give to Him. 26:29 So cool to have you here. 26:32 We are going to go ahead and have a break, but you stay 26:34 with me, because there is some important stuff we're 26:36 going to come back and just go over just real quick. 26:38 Real quick. 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Revised 2014-12-17