Participants: Cheri Peters (Host), Ron Woolsey
Series Code: CLR
Program Code: CLR00040B
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00:14 Welcome back, there was one thing said on the last session
00:17 that I just have to ask you to clarify. 00:20 Because you said something about Christian counseling 00:22 not being a good thing, a good experience for you. 00:24 You didn't mean all Christian counselors per se. 00:26 No of course not, I'm sure, I know there are many Godly 00:32 counselors - are really consulate this very minute. 00:34 He is so good, alright. 00:36 Very, very good counseling. 00:37 My experience at that time was disappointing to me and 00:40 that is why when I was working my way back, I did not 00:43 I did not trust because I did not know who to go to. 00:46 How do you find a good one? 00:48 Right and you hadn't had that experience. 00:50 So I want you to continue on and talk to us about the 00:56 fact that you are now bringing that whole Left Behind. 01:01 I love when you said that, that Left Behind thing that 01:04 your parents are giving you all the stuff and now you 01:06 finally opened up, first of all Steps to Christ. 01:08 So what happened, what was your next couple steps? 01:12 Well I could read Steps to Christ, I could read the book 01:15 Great Controversy until 2 and 3 clock the morning. 01:18 But you know Cheri, when you read these books, it 01:21 cultivates a taste for the Bible and spiritual things, 01:24 because there is scripture on every page. 01:26 So as it cultivated that taste I was able to start 01:30 opening the Bible and reading more and more to where I 01:33 was reading the Bible until 2 and 3 in the morning. 01:36 And using the other books as a reference and commentary. 01:40 I found my answers through the Word of God. 01:45 Share with me some of the things that you found it really 01:48 affected you, that really changed your life. 01:50 Well, there was a pivotal text that I had, I mean, I 01:53 have many texts in fact on my website 01:56 I have a featured article entitled 01:58 A Rainbow of Promises. 02:01 I have just a whole list of text, a power pack of 02:04 promise after promise after promise. 02:06 By the time you get through your praising the Lord because 02:09 you know, you can have victory. 02:10 Over anything - yes - not just this issue, anything - right. 02:13 Of course, my experience is to help people realize they 02:17 can have victory over anything. 02:19 But this is my experience, it is the road I came through. 02:22 I've had people come to me after hearing my story and say Pastor 02:25 Ron, if God can save you He can save anybody. 02:28 I'll say you've got the point, of course, 02:31 that's the whole point. 02:32 My testimony is my story, you have yours, and she has 02:36 hers, but the gospel is for everybody. 02:39 If we will look at our issues as sins issues, 02:42 the remedy is the same. 02:44 It is when we try to excuse our behavior as an acceptable 02:48 alternative lifestyle, or a genetic issue, or a 02:53 psychological thing, or I'm Italian, I'm supposed be 02:56 angry, you know, that type of thing. 02:57 If we deal with our issues as sin issues the formula is 03:02 all the same the remedy is all the same. 03:04 But I went to a pastor I had heard him speak, and I 03:08 was so blown away by his presentation because this 03:11 is where I got the rainbow of promises actually to start 03:13 with, and then I've grown it. 03:15 His whole sermon was one promise after another after 03:18 another as responsive reading. 03:20 I was so impressed I called him up when I found out 03:23 that he lived near where I was. 03:25 I went to visit him and told him my story, and I had 03:28 never told anybody outside of my life the story. 03:31 I thought he would fall over in a dead faint, but he didn't. 03:35 He evidently had seen it before, and he just, while I was 03:38 talking he just calmly turned in his Bible to 03:41 1 Corinthians 6 verses 9-11. 03:43 Okay, go ahead, share with us. 03:48 "Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit 03:51 the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, 03:56 nor idolaters, nor a adulterers, nor effeminate, nor 04:00 abusers of themselves with mankind. " 04:02 "Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, 04:06 nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. " 04:09 Now when you read that you think, oh I'm in trouble. 04:12 Oh, I was squirming it nailed me 3 or 4 times. 04:15 On 3 or 4 different issues - yeah. 04:18 And then he said, he looked right at me and said and 04:21 "such were some of you. " 04:23 Amen - and he paused, "but ye are washed, but ye are 04:28 sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord 04:32 Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God. " 04:33 And I was so uncomfortable, I sat there and did 04:37 another stupid thing. 04:38 What - I kind of snickered and said you made that up. 04:42 That's not what it says. 04:44 Do you know he did? 04:45 He said, let me read it again and I go oh no! 04:48 So he read it again - oh no! So he read it again. 04:51 Read it again - in the interest of time it is okay - yeah. 04:54 Yeah I think we read it again. 04:56 And he just nailed me. 04:57 And I just felt so small, "Know ye not that the 05:01 unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? 05:03 Be not deceived:" let no one tell you otherwise. 05:08 neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor a adulterers, 05:13 nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind. " 05:16 You can call it whatever you want, it is right there - right! 05:20 "Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, 05:24 nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God, and 05:28 "such were some of you. " 05:30 And then he turned it around - and said look at this. 05:34 I had to look at it and then he just, like a good 05:36 salesman, he sat there and looked at me. 05:38 Waiting for me to respond, I was speechless. 05:41 Finally, he said Ron, I don't have to tell you what to do, 05:45 do I? You know what you need to do. 05:47 I didn't go there to make a decision, I just went there 05:50 to open dialogue, I wanted information. 05:53 But I'll tell you Cheri, when I went home that night, I 05:56 was confronted by my partner. 05:58 He said, are you going to go for all that Jesus stuff? 06:03 I started to lie because I just didn't want to be confronted. 06:09 I finally said you know it would only get worse if I don't. 06:14 I finally said yes I am. 06:17 So I took a step, all hell broke loose. 06:21 He said, I feel like breaking things, and he went through 06:25 the house and just broke all kinds of things. 06:28 Throwing things, just demonic. 06:30 He was so devastated, he was so hurt, but inside, and I 06:35 was traumatized, but inside I thought did I really say that? 06:38 I just took a step and that was a step and it was on 06:43 that text, Cheri, there is power in the word. 06:47 And when you read these promises of God, they enable 06:51 you, they empower you to take steps. 06:56 Then you read another one and you act upon that one, and 06:59 you act upon that one. 07:00 I studied my way to freedom without ever going 07:03 to the counselors. 07:04 Now I am not saying don't ever go to one, because 07:06 I are one too now, you know. 07:08 Well, you know is what I want to say, as you read 07:10 through the Word of God, what is really interesting is 07:13 saying you know this is damage. 07:14 We are not going to bring all this damage into heaven or 07:18 into Christianity or whatever. 07:20 God is saying I want to hear you from that I'm not going 07:22 to condemn but I want you to clearly put it out there that 07:27 if you're lying, stealing, sleeping around with everybody. 07:29 If you're in lifestyles that are damaging to you, 07:32 God is saying stop. 07:34 Because I don't call that health and I'm never going to 07:38 excuse but I'm going to give you every single, 07:40 I'm going to love you into healing. 07:43 I'm going to love you ready to healing place. 07:45 Well, He's the Creator and the Re-Creator. 07:47 By the word of the Lord for the heavens made. 07:49 Can't He re-create the same way? 07:52 I mean through the Word can He not re-create us from the 07:56 inside out as we partake of His flesh, you know. 08:01 as we partake - I'm going to introduce you 08:03 to some of my friends that came in. 08:05 Just for the show, just to meet you to just be blessed by you 08:09 and what you are doing in your ministry. 08:11 First of all, I'd like to introduce you to KJ. 08:14 KJ, do you have something you would like share with him. 08:17 Before we even go there, I want to ask you to let him 08:22 know who you are first, share your testimony. 08:24 Okay, I would say that it parallels his somewhat. 08:27 In junior high was in love with one of my teachers. 08:30 I kept thinking this is so guilty a can't be this way, 08:34 oh, this is awful. 08:35 The older I got the more I was attracted to him more and 08:39 more and I finally acted out went into a lifestyle. 08:42 It was so comfortable, it was like oh this is where 08:47 I'm supposed to be. 08:48 And then I start drinking, and that was trying to kill 08:52 that guilt I was dealing with. 08:54 Because you're from a Christian home - yes. 08:56 An incredible Christian home, loving mom. 08:59 A loving mom, I would say there were issues in my family 09:03 that came along that I didn't know about all I got older. 09:07 My dad was an alcoholic and a full-blown alcoholic. 09:09 In a didn't know it, I did know why was getting hit or any 09:11 of those things. 09:13 So which is comfortable for me to be with women rather 09:16 than to go and be with men. 09:18 He might hit me, he might do that. 09:20 So I found that to be rather a comfortable thing. 09:23 But along with it came so many other issues that I just 09:27 didn't want to have. 09:29 It wasn't until, I think my major turning point was, you 09:34 just want a loving relationship. 09:35 There is nothing wrong with wanting a loving 09:38 relationship, God doesn't have any problem with that. 09:41 The problem is that it is not with women. 09:45 That was my turning point I would say. 09:48 And so Ron, what do you think because she is saying that 09:52 even coming to the point where she knew in her heart, KJ 09:55 in your heart you new it was the truth. 09:57 I so want to be loved you don't even know. 10:00 And now I've got addiction on top of addiction 10:02 on top of an addiction. 10:04 I feel locked in here. 10:05 This is so true that we want to be loved and if we feel 10:09 unloved, I felt unloved by my father and by my brothers. 10:15 They put me down and called me a sissy, because 10:17 I played the piano. 10:18 Because I didn't do what they did. 10:20 You know, we want that affection from our same gender. 10:25 But we have to look for love and the parameters that 10:31 God has established. 10:32 It's like in the garden of Eden, people could say well, 10:35 but God created that tree. 10:38 How could that be bad? 10:40 Well, He put a fence around it, that's a spiritual fence 10:42 around it, and says don't go there. 10:44 I have learned that maybe KJ, you have learned this by 10:46 now to that when you are tempted in some of these areas. 10:50 You just simply say, well, that is on the 10:52 other side of the fence. 10:53 It is not an option. 10:54 God has given me a world of wonderful options, 10:57 that's not one of them. 10:59 You look for love in the right places, and let Him 11:04 develop that for you. 11:07 Now it doesn't come immediately either, you know - but 11:11 there's, what is real interesting to me because I have 11:13 been with so much dysfunction as far as my mom and dad 11:17 and all that kind of stuff. 11:18 Not knowing how to love, there is some healing that the 11:20 Holy Spirit does with us by teaching us for one, how to 11:24 pick out trustworthy people. 11:26 We'll continue to pick out mom and dad for the rest of 11:29 our lives if we don't learn some of those things. 11:31 There's some things to learn in that and what's really fun, 11:34 and KJ I know that she really experienced it. 11:37 What's really fun to me is when God literally heals us 11:40 and we start being in those safe places. 11:43 It's like no way, don't you just want to cry sometimes and 11:47 say how cool is it? 11:48 Yes - to be safe, to be in love - and that's the thing 11:52 you are talking about the church being able to pull us in. 11:55 Instead, oh, you are lesbian oh my, you know, I can't 12:01 sit next to you or talk to you or whatever. 12:02 Because they are afraid of you and they don't know 12:04 how to take it. 12:05 And it is that, it is that wonderful thing when you open 12:07 it up, the one text that sticks out for me, we all have one, 12:10 is I constantly prayed I want a way out of this lifestyle. 12:14 What I found is that God said, all right pickup James, 12:18 start reading James. 12:19 And I got down it wasn't very far, it says if you lack 12:22 wisdom, if any of you lack wisdom, just ask and He will 12:25 give it to you. 12:27 I have prayed for wisdom, the rest of my life. 12:29 I'll always pray for wisdom. 12:30 He gives us in Philippians 2:13 it says it is God that 12:35 works in us to will and to do. 12:38 He gives us the desire, the Holy Spirit gives us repentance. 12:42 Repentance is a gift of the Holy Spirit. 12:45 So, if we are willing to accept the gift He gives us the 12:48 desire and the ability to follow through on that desire. 12:52 God works in us - because in repentance, one thing 12:56 about repentance in my own life is not so much this issue. 12:58 And I have a number of issues in a glad I don't have 13:00 this one to but this issue is the fact that I want God 13:06 to show me the ramifications of what is hurtful about this issue 13:10 What is hurtful about sin, and when I see that I can 13:12 come to Him in true repentance and say I see it. 13:16 I see that this is not arbitrary not that You somehow want to 13:20 take something from me that is good. 13:22 You are trying to teach me, what is harmful about that 13:24 and how I get twisted in that. 13:26 We have one more a friend of mine has come in from 13:29 Pennsylvania, and I have to say that she is one 13:32 of my favorite people. 13:33 And Rosetta I just went to you thank you so much for 13:36 coming here, thank you so much for being brave enough to 13:41 just say out loud, who you are more you have come from. 13:45 So I'm going to ask you the same thing. 13:46 To give little of your testimony, and what do you think 13:49 about what Ron has said? 13:51 Well first of all want to thank you for the opportunity 13:54 to be able to tell my testimony, because that has been a 13:56 real struggle for me is to be able to be honest. 14:00 To be able to say, I always tell people if you only knew 14:05 me when I was twenty one you wouldn't want to be in the 14:08 same room with me let alone talk to me. 14:10 Because you were so angry and so damaged 14:12 that I wanted to die. 14:15 I drank to die, I drank to go into bars that were so 14:19 dangerous that people were getting stabbed. 14:21 I just felt that if they killed me and put it in the 14:26 newspaper, I was killed in a gay bar then I 14:28 gotten even with my parents. 14:30 That was my way of getting even for all the hurt. 14:33 I ended up going through, sexual abuse when 14:38 I was very young at 7. 14:40 I grew up in an alcoholic - but somebody, I know you 14:42 some I'm going to jump in, when somebody says sexual 14:44 abuse, you were raped as a little girl. 14:47 By a number of kids down the street - three guys - right. 14:50 And I don't want to offend anyone, but that is huge. 14:54 So when you stepped away from really any sex at first, 14:58 either male or female - couldn't even identified male or female. 15:02 The only way I could tell the difference between a man 15:05 and a woman, was that woman had long hair 15:07 and men had short hair. 15:08 Then eventually, I don't remember what age it changed, I 15:12 could finally said that women have breasts and men don't. 15:15 But at first you would even let them have a body. 15:17 No, nobody, it was so bad, plus the physical 15:22 abuse I was getting at home. 15:24 Verbal abuse, I went for adult treatment for adult 15:28 treatment for alcoholics, and they told me that they 15:30 never read, when they wrote four types of abuse, I just 15:35 wrote all of the above. 15:36 They said they never heard such a story, but the good 15:41 news is that God, in His mercy said, when Christian 15:46 would say to me that you need to be broken, I would just weep. 15:49 Because I was already beaten, and it wasn't until God 15:53 finally said in my heart. 15:55 He said Rosetta, you are already broken, I want your 15:58 pieces, let me have them all your pieces so 16:01 you can have wholeness. 16:02 So, you are jumping into this lifestyle. 16:05 Somebody gets you to a meeting, and I want you to tell them 16:09 about that because it just cracked me up to think you're 16:12 lovers mom was a Christian and just loved on you forever. 16:16 She just loved me to death, and I finally said to her. 16:18 Why did you do that, why did you love me? 16:20 She said what you were the best thing she drug home yet. 16:23 So was kind of like this lost puppy that finally got 16:26 rescued, and this woman loved me. 16:29 All I knew was I couldn't understand why she cooked 16:32 funny, didn't understand why she didn't do things on 16:34 Saturday, all I knew was when I looked in her eyes she 16:39 had something I didn't have. 16:41 If there's one thing I know of a person, at least in my 16:44 experience the lifestyle is, I knew I was going to hell. 16:47 I knew I was a sinner, what I didn't know was how 16:51 do I get out of here? 16:52 How do you get out of here and this woman loved me. 16:55 So you end up at a meeting go ahead and tell me about that. 16:58 I was at a meeting in Michigan, Camp Meeting and I can 17:01 remember going by and I'm saying to my friend, what these 17:04 people don't smoke. 17:05 They don't drink, I mean, there's miles of tents, and 17:07 I'm like unbelievable, you know. 17:10 I'm just like right there, I smoke, I drink, I do joints. 17:15 Anyhow we get to the meeting, and here's 17:19 H. M. S. Richards, Jr. is preaching. 17:21 On the last night I had been there every night and on 17:24 the last night. He is standing up there, and I'm on the 17:28 balcony, because it was so crowded everybody was there. 17:30 He's saying. I'm not going to stop because he feels 17:34 impressed - I'm having an altar call - he is. 17:36 There is someone here that is supposed to come forward. 17:39 I'm up in the balcony, I'm hanging onto the railing, my 17:43 hands are turning yellow because the blood is not there. 17:45 I mean, I am gripping and my heart is feeling like it's 17:49 coming out and I'm yelling no! no! no! 17:52 I look at my friend, a you know, what we need to do? 17:55 I am oh no, and finally, it seemed like forever to get 18:01 my hands off the railing, and he waited. 18:03 Because I had to go up the back of the balcony and down the 18:07 steps and up this aisle. 18:09 He says that he is going to pray for every person that 18:13 came forward, I don't remember how many it was. 18:15 We were the last and when we came, we told him 18:19 what struggles we had. 18:20 And if ever in my life I ever met Jesus, it was with that man. 18:23 Because he didn't judge you, you said, 18:25 we are in the lesbian lifestyle. 18:27 He just wrapped his arms around us. 18:29 I mean, my head is in his armpit, and he just prayed and 18:33 prayed and asked God and he promised to send material to 18:35 help us, and he kept his promise. 18:38 From that time on, it was just amazing. 18:41 I landed up in the little church, and there was little 18:44 lady I sat next to and I wore slacks. 18:47 One day just said it's okay for you to wear slacks. 18:50 She checked the Bible, she said, as long as 18:53 they are not men's pants. 18:55 And she just, God sent me there, she was tone death and 19:00 the only voice she could hear was mine. 19:02 She was getting ready to leave the church, but she 19:05 searched her Bible to make sure that it was okay that 19:08 I could be there. 19:09 But you know, I just want to say, for one, I am so 19:13 thrilled that you're here. 19:14 I'm so thrilled that you here, so thrilled that you let 19:17 go of the railing and came up. 19:19 I'm so thrilled that God has brought you to this place. 19:22 Ron, you know, what they are talking about when you talk 19:26 about just being petrified, coming out of this lifestyle. 19:31 It is like will be Church even open their doors. 19:34 Does God even want me back. 19:37 So when you get that sense for the first time, not only 19:40 does He want me back, but I think He's calling. 19:42 I think He is waiting just for me, I think He will not 19:45 go on with this until I hear this and the joy that 19:49 comes in our heart. 19:50 That is huge! - it is and we need to realize the 19:54 church, I heard this said in Romania were we do mission work. 19:57 One of our dear friends over, said Pastor Ron the 19:59 church is a hospital. 20:01 Yes, the church is a hospital, and you have people of 20:04 all levels of health and illness within that hospital. 20:08 If we would look at it that way, we would welcome anyone 20:12 to come for help and healing. 20:15 And some people are terminally ill, some people are 20:19 chronically ill, some are just in with a sniffle. 20:22 But we help them and if they need surgery they get 20:26 surgery, they go to the recovery room. 20:28 Eventually, they need to come out of the recovery room. 20:30 Go to nursing school and come back and work. 20:33 So we need to realize in John 8: verse 36, I think. 20:39 It says when the Son sets you free, you are free indeed. 20:42 We can be healed, we can be healthy in the Lord. 20:46 We can be strong for other people and help them 20:50 come out of their illnesses, their spiritual illnesses. 20:55 But God delights in doing what He has done for you 21:00 Rosetta, He delights when all heaven rejoices when 21:04 someone like you repents. 21:06 I me that is just thrilling. 21:07 I remember when I was baptized, I remember thinking all 21:10 heaven is having a party tonight. 21:13 Right now because of me, and I was someone who had felt 21:16 so worthless, and so unimportant so insignificant, and to 21:22 realize Jesus does not want to spend eternity without you. 21:27 He will miss you if you are not there. 21:31 And that is why He has done what He has done and 21:33 why He is doing what He is doing. 21:35 I need to share this quote to if I may - yes. 21:38 "Through all ages and in all nations. Those who believe 21:41 that Jesus can and will save them personally", it is 21:46 very personal, "from sin are the elect and chosen of 21:50 God. His peculiar treasure - isn't that amazing. 21:54 They obey His call, they come out from the world and 21:58 they separate themselves from every unclean thought 22:01 and unholy practice. " 22:03 That's what Jesus wants to do for each and everyone of 22:06 us - I heard people say, and it might be 22:10 around that same quote. 22:11 Is the very folks that we are, the more damaged you are, 22:16 the distance you come to come back to God, and to be 22:21 there with Him, that those folks are going to be sitting 22:24 at the very feet of Jesus in heaven. 22:26 And I'm like, I don't go how true that is, but I like that. 22:29 Because I'm going to be right there, do you know what I mean? 22:32 I'm so grandiose I'm thinking that 22:33 I'm going to be just right there. 22:34 But God is not so put off by us that we are going to be 22:38 just in the crowd, but God says your name. 22:40 I know every single time you stood up. 22:43 I know when you stood up and fell down. 22:44 I know when this grips you again and you finally let it go again. 22:51 I just want you to know that I am there, every moment of 22:55 this recovery, every moment of this journey, every time 22:57 you stand up and you are thrilled. 22:59 Man I'm a woman of God, instead of I think I'm a 23:05 lesbian, or heroine addict, I think I have a porn 23:08 addiction, I think I am the man or woman of God, 23:10 standing in the presence of a holy God and belonging here. 23:13 How cool is that! 23:15 We should not let the nature of our temptations define 23:18 who we are, because Jesus was tempted in all points like 23:22 as we are, yet without sin. 23:25 We're done, thank you for joining us. 23:27 Thank you for having me - thank you for being brave 23:30 enough to share this testimony. 23:31 Thanks for the opportunity. 23:35 We are going ahead and take a break and come right back 23:36 Stay with us! 23:38 But weren't you grabbed by this and wowed by this? 23:40 When ever I see that God is no respecter of our damage. 23:44 He says, if you are damaged in any area step up, 23:46 cause I'm ready. 23:47 We'll be right back! |
Revised 2014-12-17