Participants: Cheri Peters (Host), Michael Ehm
Series Code: CLR
Program Code: CLR00041B
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00:14 You know, I don't know about you but I can feel the
00:16 healing happening even on the set, as I look at 00:19 Michael when I first met him my feeling was that I just 00:23 didn't even want to like you. 00:25 Then I hear your damage as a child and where you came 00:28 from, and all those kind of things, 00:30 and literally in a nice way, 00:32 the Holy Spirit confronts me on my unforgiveness. 00:35 And as I'm listening to your story and how God brought 00:40 you to a place where you can look at Ecclesiastics and 00:44 start talking about vanity and vanity then back to your 00:47 childhood and continue there, cause I think it is amazing. 00:51 I want to say that it's really funny that if 00:55 you would have told me at one point that some of my 00:58 healing was going to come from a club owner, or a 01:01 manager I would have said you are crazy. 01:03 And I want to thank you because I feel that some of my 01:06 healing is coming from you today, with this testimony. 01:09 So talk about, what did you find - while I was 01:13 reading Ecclesiastical all that night. 01:15 I found many different things and basically, I found 01:18 that a person as in myself had accumulated a lot of 01:22 things in life that meant nothing - right. 01:24 I learned that there were no U-Haul trailers behind 01:27 hearses and I wasn't taken anything with me - but you 01:30 had all this stuff, all this money - everything. 01:33 I had everything that everyone wish they had and I also 01:35 was not married and I'm still not married, 01:38 did not ever have any kids. 01:39 Everything was paid for it was just all money to me. 01:43 I had somebody come into the club that was going to be 01:48 doing some foreign work, mission work, not missionary 01:52 work, but civil service work. 01:54 And it made me consider things about doing some things 01:57 for free, and he was in there for a going away party, that is 02:00 really all relevant to this, but I considered - but in 02:03 that life you wanted to know what was the angle - yeah. 02:06 Do you know what I mean, everybody has an angle. 02:08 So what you mean you're doing it for free? 02:09 Yeah - or just doing it out of the goodness of your 02:12 heart - yeah you think you going to be doing this for 02:14 two years and I never thought I would do some like that. 02:16 So I start considering that here, I have taken so much 02:19 in my life from people, it's time to give back. 02:21 Perhaps I'm thinking. 02:23 So in that club and I want to say, Cheri, and also for 02:28 your viewers here, that praise God we have a God who 02:33 meets us where were at. 02:34 Amen - no matter what side of the coin you are on - He 02:37 loves us, like you say He is crazy about us. 02:41 And I use it a lot to begin about you - do you - He is 02:44 He is crazy about us. 02:46 He pulls us close and I started seeing myself as this 02:51 little boy with my hand in Hand in His hand. 02:53 Anytime I go through some difficulties I just revert to 02:56 that little boy and just think I'm this little boy, He 02:59 is my God, He is my Shepherd. 03:01 He's my leader, and I follow Him. 03:04 And listen to that small voice that often look for. 03:07 I felt something was pulling me, was leading me. 03:11 So I had walked out of the clubs and laid the keys down 03:13 and literally within ten minutes I was outside the club. 03:17 My brother asked me, are you serious, you're just joking 03:20 around, we've got a New Year's party going on. 03:23 Because this is a two thousand - you just can't walk 03:25 out - no you just can't we've got a New Year's party 03:27 you're kidding me, no, you're serious. 03:29 You're going to walk away from the money? 03:31 The cars, the House, you're inheritance? 03:33 Yeah, that's what it's going to take and at that time. 03:36 I thought I would be better off being a wino, hanging 03:39 out in San Diego looking at the sun go down. 03:41 Then two to keep dealing with this stuff and I wasn't 03:44 happy, maybe there was some happiness in that. 03:45 But I was going to go out there and find out what was 03:48 going to make me happy. 03:49 Still thinking, what was going to make me happy. 03:52 But as I started looking more at this book and starting 03:54 reading it, this book starts speaking to me 03:57 that there was life in this book, and it was giving me life. 04:00 So I started my studies with the church, 04:05 one thing led to another. 04:06 I heard Doug Batchelor, he spoke about that - he's 04:11 awesome isn't he - oh he's wonderful. 04:12 There is a lot of people that are at church that are 04:14 awesome, I was like who are these people, I haven't been 04:16 who are they? 04:18 They talk about this David Asscherick and they 04:20 said that this guy is a little radical. 04:21 I've got to tell you, Doug Batchelor one time, 04:23 because when I go to see him. I'm just get off the 04:25 street and just getting off the drugs and he's talking. 04:27 He is in the back getting ready to come on stage. 04:30 I don't know if you call it a stage when it's in the 04:33 church, but you know, what I mean. 04:34 So he's got to come back, and he stuck himself in the 04:37 eye with a stick, and I'm thinking oh man. 04:40 So he comes out, and he is like blood red, and he says 04:44 something and starts his revelation series, and pretty 04:47 soon he looks up and says, I just want you to know, kind 04:51 of like I'm not high, I just 04:53 injured my eye, I stuck myself tonight with a stick. 04:56 And I'm thinking nobody's going to think you're high 04:58 with just one eye is red, and one eye is totally clear. 05:01 But I feel in love with him, because I thought for an 05:03 addict we always it is so real. 05:05 It really is for someone saying, this is where I come 05:08 from, this is what I still struggle with. 05:10 I still think you think I'm high sometimes and I just want 05:13 you to know I'm not. 05:14 I love God and so he was very real. 05:17 So when you came in, you got hit with some men that were 05:20 very real in their recovery - I read the David 05:23 Asscherick story, from going from a punk rocker and ten 05:25 years later, - a skater - and then preaching the word. 05:30 You know, he pours his guts out, I want to say stage 05:34 to but from the pulpit. 05:35 It went to his school, I went to Arise. 05:37 So this is from your recovery, you literally stepped in 05:42 and started getting mentoring by these men of God. 05:46 How cool is that - actually six months after walking 05:49 out that club on July 15 - you know what I just thought 05:52 of shame right now, I'm glad that you didn't run into me 05:55 first, because I might have injured you and I want to say 05:58 I'm sorry for that. 05:59 I worried about that - yeah, because some people probably 06:02 did look at you like, who are you to come in here. 06:04 Not many people stepped up to that, I'm glad that it was at 06:07 this point right now. 06:08 But you laid me low, laid me low and made me think 06:10 and consider that I will share this with some of my 06:12 team members. 06:13 I've thought of you when I was even at the school Arise, 06:17 someone said to me, I don't even know why this school 06:21 let you in here. 06:22 Why they would even have you around all these young 06:24 girls around here - wow. 06:25 I felt so dirty, and I felt so bad - as if you weren't 06:28 forgiven - yeah. 06:29 Actually I left the class and went back to my room, and 06:33 normally you would get anger with something like that. 06:36 Well, I give you punch, you know, but I didn't even feel 06:39 that - you were just so crushed - I was crushed. 06:42 I just really said Man, this is not going to work. 06:45 As I started thinking over the event, I thought that in 06:48 my other life, that I just knocked this man back a few 06:50 feet and I didn't. 06:53 Then I realized that something was working in my life, 06:55 because I did not feel those feelings. 06:57 So, I want back to that classroom, we were studying on 07:00 Romans that day, so how cool is that! 07:02 The thing was on Romans. 07:03 The healing started beginning in that and I started 07:08 doing other things, reading more in the word. 07:10 Yeah, it's just been wonderful God has - we are going 07:15 to open it up for questions or comments. 07:17 I just want to say, I'm honored to sit next to you 07:19 doing ministry - praise Lord on that. 07:22 You know, I've always got to humble myself in that, it 07:25 is always a challenge in that. 07:26 Okay, I know there is a lot of comments, but you know, 07:31 Jonathan you were like, I think you are like a preacher. 07:35 I want to know with listening to us and talking about 07:39 the different things we've talked about. 07:40 What's hit you? 07:43 I'm just seeing something really amazing playing out. 07:46 I mean something happen back about 2000 years ago, with 07:50 a little girl named Mary. 07:52 Here was a girl, she was offended by a man Simon, who 07:56 was a Pharisee, who had offended her and had led her 08:00 into sin. This was during Jesus time when 08:02 He was walking around. 08:04 That's right, and this little girl with this damaged 08:08 background goes into prostitution. 08:11 I even met a girl and she's a good friend of mine who 08:15 was offended as a little child. 08:17 From a young age she begin to fantasize about becoming a 08:21 prostitute, because she feels a loss of value that worth 08:25 was stripped from her and she would do anything 08:27 to gain it back again. 08:28 And so here's this girl Mary she is going to the city 08:31 trying to get value back again by becoming a prostitute. 08:36 And a man comes for her, Jesus and shows her true worth 08:41 and value and her heart is just melted. 08:43 Something amazing happened, here is this woman who is 08:49 responsible for destroying some people's lives. 08:52 She then looks into the eyes of Jesus and starts to 08:55 realize that this man has forgiven her, 08:57 her heart swells in gratitude. 09:01 She goes out and buys the most expensive perfume, and 09:04 she wants to anoint Jesus for His death because she 09:07 realizes that He is going to have to die for her. 09:12 And of all places to have a party, like there's a 09:15 party going on, and it is actually Simon the Pharisee 09:19 that is holding a party. 09:20 And here's the man that has offended this girl Mary - 09:25 so that Simon, it was probably her molester the person 09:28 that molested her, man - it was her uncle wasn't it? 09:31 Her uncle like some kind of guardian that was looking 09:35 after her and - so she has to walk into his house - 09:38 that's right - to minister to Christ. 09:41 That's right, and he's actually holding a party 09:44 because he was being healed of being a leper. 09:46 So he held this party and she's a woman that is not 09:49 even supposed to be there. 09:50 But she knows what Jesus is going to do and she comes 09:54 in with this alabaster box, and she breaks it and the 09:57 fragrance goes all through the room. 10:00 Everyone is staring at her. 10:02 This man Simon actually said to Jesus, if He 10:05 knew what woman she was, but kind of woman she was, 10:08 He wouldn't let her in here and He wouldn't 10:10 let her touch Him. 10:12 And what happens is Simon has this attitude against her. 10:18 Something is happening in the room, she is looking 10:21 into the eyes of Jesus realizing that she has been 10:24 forgiven by Him. 10:25 That spirit of forgiveness is laying some kind of 10:31 conviction on Simon's heart. 10:33 Jesus then turns to Simon and doesn't actually reveal 10:36 his sin openly, He just tells the parable and says, 10:39 there was two people that owed money. 10:43 One owed 58 dollars and the other 50,000. 10:46 Neither of them could repay so the owner forgave them 10:50 both, which one of these two people loved him the most? 10:54 Their response was the one that was forgiven the most. 10:58 Then Simon knows, he says Jesus is talking about me, I'm 11:03 the one that owes the most. 11:05 In that very second Mary looks from the eyes of Jesus 11:10 over to this man Simon, and he knows he is forgiven. 11:15 And it breaks his heart - and I feel like in this sense 11:20 that that's even happened. 11:22 And a hate to say that in a sense that's even happened 11:24 here, and that God says that's where true healing happens. 11:28 Not only can you receive that forgiveness, not only that 11:31 you can really understand, I have so forgiven you, but 11:35 can you offer that again to someone else. 11:38 It's huge! Here is this man Simeon, 11:42 here he looks into the eyes of the one that he has 11:46 offended and she is responding to him with forgiveness. 11:49 She is looking at him as a friend and a brother. 11:53 It just breaks his heart and from that day forth, he 11:57 actually becomes a meek and lowly disciple of Christ. 12:00 Isn't that incredible - wonderful. 12:02 It is incredible, there is something so powerful in 12:05 what Christ says, even there is a scripture were says, 12:09 that if you are at the altar, if you come to worship Me. 12:12 Come to bring something to me in praise, and you think of having 12:16 something against someone. 12:18 Go back to them straighten that out, and it is amazing 12:23 that I don't even think of that until I feel something 12:27 well up in me and I realize I still have it. 12:29 I'm still carrying it, but God says it is just huge, 12:33 forgiveness, not only receive it, but offer it. 12:37 I thank you for that Jonathan. I know Gaea you had 12:42 another, you had a question or comment. 12:43 Yeah, I relate to both of your experiences quite a lot. 12:47 especially Cheri's 12:48 When I was younger I experienced a small bit, yeah just abuse. 12:53 It changed the picture of myself from that point on. 12:57 I didn't realize the impact that it had and it took, I 13:00 didn't realize I needed to be healed. 13:03 I didn't realize that it affected my picture of God. 13:05 It is amazing to think that so many girls were all 13:08 affected by your life of sin, but all of us have lived a 13:13 life away from God and finding our way back to Him. 13:16 But we damage so many people along the way. 13:19 We ourselves need healing and the people we offend need 13:23 healing, I was just personally wondering how was it that you 13:28 yourself were able to heal and to be able to see women 13:31 as not just objects. 13:34 How were you able to forgive yourself and move on, how 13:38 is it that you are able to do that? 13:40 I believe it's an ongoing process that goes on. 13:42 How I see women, I did never see them really as bad. 13:47 I don't have like, I hate women, or anything like that. 13:52 I actually with a lot of the girls that I managed, 13:57 I loved them all. 13:58 I mean, I cared for them, but to do my job I had to veil 14:02 that off I could not let my emotions show. 14:04 I had to just do the job and you become an object of 14:08 animosity, I guess is that the right word? 14:10 Were they hate you for that, because they want to have 14:13 that connectivity, you represent like a father figure 14:16 to many of them, but they just can't get that resolved 14:19 and you just view it as a job. 14:21 When you had mentioned the play thing, that even when 14:24 you got pulled into it that they were playthings. 14:28 How do you resolve some of that stuff? 14:30 Because you know God, I just think it's amazing like I'm 14:33 listening to your testimony and think it's amazing that 14:36 I'm getting into a little bit of how healed me and 14:40 walked me through that. 14:41 How he allowed me to see men in a different way. 14:44 And I am wondering how that for you as far as women? 14:47 That is an ongoing thing, of course, I am single and 14:51 every time I meet someone, I feel I need to unburden 14:55 give them my testimony. 14:57 You wonder if that's all conducive, I did this I did that 15:00 and they did that like, Oh yeah wow. 15:02 Oh well, I will talk to you later, you know. 15:03 Not that that really has happened, but everyone has been 15:06 pretty cool about it. 15:07 But it has been damaging for me to know that I have to 15:12 drag myself over the coals for this. 15:13 I take it to the Lord, and I try humble myself as a man, 15:18 but then again, these are the choices I made in my life 15:22 and I view this is consequences of these choices. 15:25 We all make choices, and there are certain consequences 15:28 that we cannot get away from - you know, I feel like putting 15:30 my hands around your throat again for a different reason. 15:32 Because that want to say, don't drag yourself over the 15:35 coals anymore, because you know, what we can't pay enough. 15:38 That's one thing I learned in my own recovery is that I 15:41 keep trying to pay for something. 15:42 Maybe if I paid for this I could walk in forgiveness in 15:47 a more honest way. 15:48 God says, you know what you do not have 15:50 enough to pay for this. 15:52 That's why God sent His Son. 15:53 That's what Christ said, I will totally take all this on, 15:56 every single thing you ever did, every thought, whatever. 15:59 From this point on, the point that we accept His 16:02 forgiveness, it's done. 16:05 It's done and even with me coming up, you're feeling me 16:09 still having that unresolved stuff, is that by His 16:13 grace I'm going to pray that when that happens to you. 16:16 You don't try to fix it for them. 16:18 God - I want to say something to you, 16:20 I want to say something to you. 16:21 I just want you to forgive me and want everyone out 16:26 there, and all the girls that have danced to forgive me. 16:30 I didn't mean to hurt anyone, it's not my intention, and 16:34 they didn't mean to hurt anyone. 16:35 I'm sorry for the husbands I took away from their wives. 16:40 They could've been at home and have a family because 16:44 relationships are important to God. 16:46 And bringing us back in healing us is very important. 16:50 And, I thank you for this show too because there is a lot of 16:54 healing going on and I want this to go on for everyone too. 16:58 The Lord has blessed - amen, and a want you to know 17:03 that you are such a man of God, thank you for that. 17:07 You know, it's like when we talk about, it is really 17:10 interesting to me and pastor I want you to respond to 17:13 this a little bit. 17:14 It is when we talk about forgiveness in that full 17:18 circle, I want, I don't did we understand that everyone 17:22 is coming from such heavy places that it really is about 17:26 God trying to do, what God does. 17:28 He is just saying that every time you can't forgive the 17:31 person next to you, the Holy Spirit gets stuck 17:34 somewhere, and that person stays damaged. 17:36 So, for one, I just didn't have any idea I still had all that 17:40 in me, so I want to say thank you for that. 17:44 I just want to encourage you to keep standing. 17:47 I'm praying that God wows you with a woman, or a wife. 17:50 Do you know what I mean is that when that comes full 17:53 circle - that's the Lord's plans there, and I leave 17:56 that to Him because I have not been the best, well could 17:59 you say, chooser of women. 18:02 You know, there is someone that is there, and I'll just go my 18:07 course and have Him lead it step by step. 18:10 You know Pastor, you've kind of heard what we are going 18:15 through here and I'm wondering, what do you think? 18:17 As I've been listening to the testimony dialogue, back- 18:21 and-forth a certain story comes to my mind from the Bible. 18:25 And it is not about a man and woman, but about two men. 18:29 One was Stephen, and as he was being stoned, he was very 18:34 aware of off Saul of Tares standing there, 18:36 presiding over his murder. 18:39 He had no knowledge of what was to come later. 18:45 Yet, can you imagine the resurrection - wow. 18:51 And Stephen feels tap on his shoulder and he turns 18:54 around and there is Saul of Tarsus - the very person 18:57 that he doesn't - he doesn't know that it's the apostle Paul. 19:00 He remembers Saul of Tarsus, the perpetrator - exactly. 19:05 I think there will be time there for the asking of 19:08 forgiveness and forgiveness being given. 19:12 And I just thought many times that Stephen may have been 19:17 the apostle Paul had he lived. 19:19 He was quite a powerful preacher. 19:21 And the apostle Paul stepped in and took his place. 19:24 Can you imagine that those two, one who presided over 19:27 the death of the other, being best friends for all eternity. 19:31 That's incredible - that's just the beauty of the whole 19:34 point of the Gospel, and forgiveness, and what we have 19:37 to look forward to in heaven. 19:38 I see this and this type of scenario with a 19:42 perpetrator and a victim. 19:43 In both seeking and giving forgiveness. 19:47 Absolutely incredible to think about this, like the 19:52 pastor was saying, that you have that intensity, knowing 19:57 that somebody literally had destroyed your life, took 20:01 your life and realize that God brings us full circle. 20:05 I feel like that is for all of us at some level, 20:09 He brings it full circle. 20:11 How do you not only deal with your own issues, I've had 20:14 people that said my husband left for another woman. 20:18 I can't forgive them, I can't forgive them. 20:22 I'm sitting here thinking, it's for our healing for each 20:27 other to forgive. 20:28 Even if they can't receive it yet, even if they don't 20:30 even know yet. 20:31 I really believe more and more that there is something 20:35 so huge in being able to forgive each other. 20:39 God does it graciously. 20:41 Well, I also believe that in my leaving all that, and 20:47 considering my biological father who was in this business, 20:50 I started hating on him for many different reasons. 20:53 Seeing him as this evil person for all the things that 20:56 he has done. 20:57 In blaming him, and I started realizing that I had to 21:02 forgive him, but I found in a pattern in order to do 21:06 that I had to find that pattern of forgiveness in God. 21:11 When I realize that God was my Father, and He 21:14 was the one that was leading me, He said, no you 21:18 need to forgive. 21:19 This is a better way - you know that and people that watch the 21:23 show, that I had just buried my father in his addiction. 21:26 So you I'm sure would give anything for your father get 21:30 this - I would, the impact that he could make on 21:34 other people's lives. 21:35 Even if this just an impact on his life, because I told 21:39 him that all the angels in heaven, would sing and 21:41 rejoice the minute that he gave his heart to God - and he's 21:45 still in the club smoking and still it's killing him. 21:48 Yeah, he's got lung cancer right now and I am praying 21:50 for him, and I'm praying for my brothers that are in it. 21:53 They have been asking questions. 21:54 You know, it is hard to go preach to your family - you 21:58 know, I still want to say that even as you're saying 22:01 this, is that we still kind of want to judge. 22:03 You're saying, don't judge him because I want them saved. 22:08 In my sense, don't judge my family because 22:12 I want them saved. 22:13 Don't judge my sister because I want her saved. 22:16 And my sister still is in the club, you know, and 22:18 I want her saved. 22:20 So it is like, it is interesting to me sitting here with 22:22 you, because I don't think anybody can have gotten me to 22:25 look at this issue on this level. 22:27 But sitting here with you saying that God wants us all 22:30 saved and then wants us to be in a place of forgiveness 22:34 so that He can continue to bring our families to the table. 22:37 So many people come up to me and tell me that my 22:40 daughter danced or my sister dances and what do you 22:44 think of this. 22:45 What do you think about rock 'n roll, different things 22:47 has an air of sin on it and all I can say to them 22:50 is love them. 22:51 Just love them, love them. 22:53 Because that is what brought you full circle - that 22:55 love - is you felt the love of God draw you. 22:57 And only by that, and that's what gives me, - and I 23:00 don't say this too much, I say thank you for being on 23:03 show all the time, that cheesy stuff, but I don't say it 23:05 changed my life. 23:06 You know, you changed my life - we change our lives - 23:09 No No! You change my life by being brave enough to even 23:12 sit here and go through this and then by being convicted 23:15 enough, and being able to reach out and to say, forgive me, 23:17 and so you changed my life. 23:19 As a man of God, so just received that, and thank you 23:22 for being on the show, and I would do 23:24 ministry with you anywhere on the planet. 23:26 Alright - praise the Lord lets do it. 23:27 Oh man, how could you not just want to say God teach me. 23:32 Sometimes, I will realize that what I think I know about 23:35 the Scriptures, what I think I know about God, what I 23:39 think I know about all these different things, 23:41 forgiveness and love and recovery. 23:43 I don't know anything, I don't know anything I'm just a 23:46 baby and every single time God says, you know what, let Me step 23:49 you into a deeper understanding of this so you can heal. 23:53 Not so you can teach the person next door, but so you can heal. 23:57 I think it is absolutely amazing and as you sit with 24:01 this after the show is over, after this program is over. 24:05 As you sit with this open up the word of God and get 24:08 a clear understanding of what forgiveness is all about. 24:10 Stay with us, because I'm going to come back and go through 24:13 this a little bit more of what I want to just unfold to 24:16 you about forgiveness and what I have learned here. 24:18 So I'm going to, not go into it, just stay with us! 24:21 We will be right back! |
Revised 2014-12-17