Participants: Cheri Peters (Host), Jeremy & Heidi Summerlin
Series Code: CLR
Program Code: CLR00083B
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00:13 Welcome back! Last week we had Jeremy and Heidi Summerlin
00:17 on the program and they talked about their testimony and 00:20 where they came from. 00:22 Jeremy talked about coming from some pretty intense meth 00:25 addiction, but even before that had some childhood stuff. 00:29 Heidi the same, so I want you to recap what you shared 00:33 last week so that it makes sense when we talk about the 00:36 healing you guys have done. 00:37 So Jeremy can you start, just where you come from and how 00:41 you got to a place where God said stop! 00:44 Okay, I came from an abandoned childhood where my father 00:50 left when I was seven and I was molested at around age 00:55 8 or 9 and a lot of pain for a little kid. 00:59 My heart was really hurt by a female at age 01:05 of 15, in the church. 01:07 This was a pastors wife that wanted to marry you? 01:10 Yes, correct. - got into a sexual relationship and was 01:13 going to leave the Pastor. The reason I want to say that 01:16 is because the first time I heard you say that I was like 01:18 no way because that is huge. 01:21 This was after your mom talked to back into the church? 01:24 Right! Yep. - you jumped into meth after that? 01:27 Yep, and immediately into meth and that 01:29 for 13 or 14 years. 01:33 Wow, your teeth look good! - thank you! 01:36 Laughing, I had a little work but not much at all. 01:40 Oh, because usually with that much meth, people don't 01:43 keep their teeth. - right. 01:45 - so you physically escaped a lot of the physical trauma 01:49 of your addiction, which must've been God's hand on you. 01:53 Exactly. - you guys met in his addiction, but talk 01:57 a little bit about where you came from before you met. 02:00 My mom and dad divorced when I was 10, 11-ish. 02:03 I was a surrogate parent to my three siblings, 02:07 younger siblings and was very promiscuous. 02:12 I was looking for that love, acceptance because my dad 02:16 was gone and I didn't see him. 02:18 I dabbled a little bit into meth, yeah! 02:23 - you had three kids by the time you met Jeremy? 02:26 No, by the time you met Jeremy how many kids? 02:28 By the time I met Jeremy I had just one, and then I had 02:32 two more before we got together. 02:35 - you talked about on the last program about 3 abortions, 02:40 during that time. 02:42 Early on! - yeah, early on, the reason I want to bring 02:45 that up is that at this point there is no healing from 02:48 any direction, just further junk, on further junk, 02:51 and on further junk. 02:52 You guys got together and it spun out 02:56 of control for awhile? 02:57 Um hmmm! - so who wants to share that stuff? 03:00 Go ahead! - well I would go to the store and leave for 2 03:08 days, sometimes 3 or whatever. 03:11 I was just going out and getting high. 03:13 - sleeping with other people? 03:15 Not so much, no, but it was using because it was my lover. 03:21 It wasn't really a sexual addiction, but I would be gone 03:28 and then I would just come home out of the blue. 03:31 She would be a wreck just wondering where I had been. 03:36 - I had driven around, called hospitals, called cop shops, 03:40 driven around places I knew he would go. 03:42 I was just thinking, there were a couple times I found him 03:46 and the look on his face was eke, she caught me. 03:50 Yeah it was craziness. - it's so crazy! 03:55 What is interesting to me was that in that craziness your 03:59 thinking, just don't look for me, I'm all right I'll be 04:02 home when I'm home. - actually yeah! 04:04 You are saying to him, I need someone to love me and this 04:08 doesn't feel like love. - Um Hmmm. 04:10 So the damage got more and more intense? - right! - Um hmmm. 04:14 During that craziness at what point do you look at each 04:18 other and say, I think we should marry? 04:20 You know what I mean, I'm thinking in my mind I can't even 04:24 put that together, it hurts me. 04:26 But at that one point, in that craziness, you guys decided 04:29 to marry. - we were feeding off of each other's, 04:32 I was heavy into my addiction, 04:35 and she was feeding off my addiction. 04:37 She needs take care someone. - right, so we were both. 04:41 - we were both married and divorced twice. 04:43 Where I worked in the law field I was able to divorce if 04:48 that is what was going to happen. 04:51 It was easy for me, so I was really pushing the whole 04:56 marriage thing, but we did get married until 04:57 3 years into our relationship. 04:58 He was out most of the night and came home with a ring. 05:03 I'm a wreck because he was gone for hours, but he came 05:07 home with a ring, so it was all better. 05:09 So how crazy is that? 05:11 Normal people will look and say, really, so he was out all 05:17 night, crazy, using meth, but he knew that you wanted to be 05:23 married, so here let's do it. 05:25 Did you go out that day and do it? - no - no. 05:29 We went to the courthouse, so it wasn't like this big 05:33 flamboyant wonderful wedding, but his mom was there and 05:36 his grandma was there and we just went to the courthouse. 05:38 You and the kids? - Um hmmm! 05:41 Did his drug abuse stop? - not right away. 05:46 So we have covered this already, but drug abuse continued, 05:53 your craziness continued and all that stuff spiraled out 05:57 of control, you eventually got to a place where God 06:02 was the answer, and even when you said that, 06:05 I'm thinking, oh good. 06:07 You know what I mean, it's about time. 06:09 You got to a place for God is the answer and moved into 06:12 that relationship, but the craziness didn't stop? 06:15 - No, exactly! - it got better? 06:17 Yeah, at times it got better. 06:19 When we first started going to our church, it is kind of 06:23 funny because we got this flyer in the mail that they were 06:27 talking about, what was that they were talking about? 06:30 Bad spirits or something, or the other side or whatever. 06:34 I thought they were promoting it, 06:35 so I threw the flyer away. 06:36 The next day we got another one, Jeremy read it and said, 06:39 no, they are against it. 06:40 So we said let's go and it ended up being a church, 06:43 it wasn't in a church building but when we went there that 06:45 is where I started finding the healing. 06:50 It was a very accepting church, a very nontraditional, 06:54 sitting around roundtables and was very relaxing. 06:57 In fact I think the first time Jeremy went there, 07:00 he was high. - I was, we were actually... 07:03 I'm a church member and Jeremy went there a lot high. 07:05 He would walk in and I would say Jeremy, get back into 07:09 the pastors office, are you high? 07:11 One time I remember saying to you, tell me if you remember 07:14 this conversation? He's like I'm not high. 07:16 He's like this and he's been up all night, so he is just 07:20 tired, his eyes are huge, and I'm not high. 07:22 I said do you have an accountability person here? 07:26 He says, I do. I said who, and I think he named some 07:29 like a Boy Scout out there. 07:31 I'm like, is he ever going to know that your high? 07:33 He is still playing me and all of a sudden, 07:35 he said, Okay, I'm high. 07:37 But the church you are talking about really does say, 07:43 come on in and sit down, let's work on stuff. 07:46 One thing you said to me, which was amazing, 07:50 during those times was that this is safe here. 07:54 It is really safe here, so the acting out was still 07:58 happening, in and out of the building it was still 08:00 happening, finding a church body that said, somehow 08:05 let's work this out. 08:07 Our Pastor is amazing. - absolutely! He is very real. 08:13 He is very now, yeah! - so you guys work together? 08:17 Did you work with the Pastor on your relationship ever? 08:22 Yes, one time we did, it wasn't very many sessions, 08:30 maybe 2 or 3. - Jeremy was just there because I wanted 08:34 him to go and it wasn't, - I think I, - I like the way 08:39 you say it so nicely, I threaten him, you better go. 08:43 The reason I say that is because some woman is out there 08:47 saying I know she threatened him. 08:49 It is true, when you are so desperate in those situations 08:53 and what is amazing in those situations, God is very much 08:56 involved and you know that you are going in the right 08:59 direction, but the desperation is still there. 09:01 I know we have all this junk still. 09:03 So you're with the Pastor? 09:06 Well I felt like I was, everything was pointed at me 09:12 and my addiction, and she was perfect. 09:16 - I was! - he was looking at me with here's your 09:20 problem, and you know what your problem is, 09:22 and you know what you have to do and I'm like, 09:25 how do I do that? I don't know how to do that. 09:28 So it scared me away, I'm like I do not want to 09:32 go back to that. 09:33 I love what you said because, the story I opened with, 09:36 I thought it was all about my Pastor when it actually was 09:39 if you talked about 50-50, I don't even know if it was 09:43 50-50 because I have all these rejection issues. 09:45 So you know it is everybody's issue, so you can't deal with 09:50 your addiction if you don't do with your codependency. 09:52 So you met with Pastor a few times, you started getting 09:57 involved in the church. 09:59 When did you get an idea that you could actually heal? 10:03 Ummm, it was probably when somebody in our church was 10:11 giving a class, I think it was, Return to Marital Intimacy. 10:16 Where you had to really dive into everything you 10:22 had done, I mean talking about everything from your past. 10:27 Moral issues, the abortion issue, the sexual relationships 10:34 that I had in the past, all that stuff. 10:37 We actually had to come head-to-head with that. 10:39 That is when I knew stuff was really starting to fester. 10:42 Right, so because I've been to that class, 10:47 I want to say that somebody will say again, 10:51 why do I have to look at all that? 10:53 If we could just say, God forgive me and I will give You 10:58 all this, I will accept Your forgiveness. 11:01 If we could give Him all that, that would be fine, 11:04 but most of us walk around and we don't give Him anything. 11:06 We give Him superficial stuff that the church can point 11:11 out, like I will give you the meth, but I won't give you 11:13 the fact that I was molested as a kid at 7 or 8 years old. 11:16 That part of you that was so damaged at that time I am 11:21 still walking around trying to handle that. 11:23 So in this class, it says what are you still trying 11:26 to handle on your own? 11:28 When you start seeing it, it is overwhelming. - it is! 11:32 God definitely gives it to you in chunks, 11:36 because there is no way that we could handle everything 11:38 that we have done all at once, Jeremy and I are still 11:41 going through my codependency. 11:44 In fact it is full born right now, because I feel that 11:48 he is not completely healed, but he has gotten a good chunk 11:52 of healing and I can see him working in other people. 11:55 I am doing the same thing but still there is another part 11:58 that is still processing through the hurt. 12:01 He's looking good, and he's getting better, and he's 12:03 working out, and he's not using, and he's coming home and 12:06 then that codependency doesn't know what to do. 12:09 I don't have anybody take care of, and that is a panicked 12:13 feeling. - so when he does do something little, 12:15 it is huge to me, because I don't have the huge anymore. 12:18 He's like yeah, why you freaking out about that? 12:23 And you say the same thing to yourself, I don't know? 12:25 So let's go back to one of the major issues. 12:29 You had talked of the previous program, and you have 12:32 mentioned a couple times on this program the abortion. 12:33 A lot of people who are watching, have had abortions and 12:37 dealt with that, so what did God do? 12:40 How did God take you back to that place? 12:43 The abortion didn't set in the front part of my mind, 12:48 it was always something that was yeah a, okay, it happened, 12:52 but I was in public about it. 12:53 I wouldn't go around saying this is what I had done. 12:55 There was a class going on, in the town I was in, 13:01 and I decided to go. 13:02 I didn't know exactly what they were going to talk about, 13:04 but I wanted to go. 13:05 They touched on the abortion, and the guy said, if you have 13:11 ever had one, you will see those kids in heaven. 13:14 I just lost it, I just cried. 13:17 So what I had done, yes it was bad, but I'm forgiven for 13:23 that and I am going to see those kids again. 13:24 With the Holy Spirit in that moment, I don't think people 13:29 realize that moment is when you see the grace and mercy of 13:32 God and it's not this big thing, it's not drawn out thing, 13:36 but it actually goes right to that wound. 13:38 God says, give Me that, I died for that. 13:42 I think sometimes we think that Christ died, and do not 13:45 realize that He died for some pretty serious things. 13:47 That is a serious thing that He said, I died for that, 13:50 I want to carry that, you are done with it. 13:52 - yeah! - and you're done with it? - yeah I felt it 13:55 lift, even though we processed more later on, that was 13:59 a big chunk of it because I really felt it. 14:01 I didn't mourn for the loss, even though the second abortion 14:05 I had was hard, I didn't really feel it, I didn't mourn it. 14:10 But when that guy confirmed that I would see those kids 14:13 when I get there, it was like everything, all 3 of them 14:18 combined, - you just wept! - totally, yeah! 14:22 When I say, wept, you wept, and wept. - oh yeah! 14:24 I cried, and cried, and cried, yeah! 14:26 So what is really interesting is that in our healing, 14:31 for some of us, we think I can say, God I know that You 14:36 forgive me, I'm turning my life over to You, I'm being 14:39 baptized and all those things are incredible, but that deep 14:41 wound is still there and we don't know how deep it is. 14:43 We don't even know that the shame involved in that, 14:47 and until the Holy Spirit says, surrender that shame, 14:51 surrender that to Me. 14:53 Jeremy, were you there during any of the times she worked 14:58 with this particular issue? 14:59 Um, yes, yes I was. 15:02 So talk about that and what you saw in her heart? 15:05 It was actually the first time I had heard about it. 15:08 I didn't know, and when she came out and put it on the 15:14 table, my heart went out for her. 15:19 Because even as her husband, she is not even telling you? 15:23 - right, and I was like whoa, that has to be a lot to 15:29 carry on your shoulders and my heart went out for her. 15:36 Just seeing how she was hurting and I just wanted to, 15:42 I wanted to get a hold of her and comfort her. 15:45 - did you tell her that? - I believe so. 15:48 Do you remember what he said? 15:50 Guys don't remember that stuff. 15:52 I don't know, we had so much stuff, 15:54 I do not remember the exact words. 15:57 What I love about that is the fact that the people we love, 16:01 there are sometimes that in our recovery and our healing, 16:05 it is even being able to, with the people we love, 16:07 to show them those deeper wounds. 16:11 This is what I have been carrying on my own, by myself, 16:14 for this many years. 16:15 When you see in the eyes of somebody you love the fact 16:19 that they saw it, that they got it, and they are not 16:23 disgusted with me, and they are not turning away from me. 16:26 They literally, I can see in your eyes that you wanted to 16:28 move into her life, at that point, and be able to heal 16:31 her and help her. 16:33 To be with God and let her know that she is forgiven and 16:35 all that stuff, is then again that God says, another piece 16:39 of that is removed from you and given to Me. 16:41 So what we do in our healing, when we get that kind of 16:45 assurance from people around us, it's we surrender that 16:50 to Christ, we surrender that. 16:52 Everything the devil meant, I know you guys know this, 16:55 everything that the devil meant to destroy her with 16:57 with those decisions, is done. 17:00 God says I will redeem that, I will restore that. 17:03 This is absolutely the biggest thing. 17:06 I know that you had the whole molest issue, was she able 17:12 to go through some of that with you? 17:13 Yeah, we went through everything together. 17:15 - talk about that. 17:16 The molest wasn't really the hardest one, that one was 17:21 pretty easy because I think in my own heart I forgave that 17:24 person a long time ago. 17:26 The hardest one was with the pastors wife and when we came 17:32 upon that one I broke down and I cried like a 15-year-old. 17:38 I don't think I ever seen him cry like he did. 17:39 What did he cry, what was the main pain in that? 17:43 Do you remember? He was crying like he was 15. 17:48 I mean literally. - my heart was broken. 17:51 - because you loved her. For you it was real. - yeah! 17:56 It was totally real. - all I could do was hold him. 17:59 Just tell him I was there and let him feel it and cry 18:05 it out and then ask God to come in and heal that. 18:09 When you ask God in, because that is a huge thing to say, 18:12 God, tell me what I need to do with this pain? 18:16 Do you know what God said? What was that feeling like? 18:21 With God looking at that particular pain? 18:24 I remember a picture I got from my heart before. 18:30 Before God came in and healed that, it was like this mold, 18:36 this nasty looking mold, just nasty. 18:41 Afterward, it was this bright fluffy white heart, 18:46 He had taken that stuff, that junk off of there and 18:52 just threw it away, it just disappeared. 18:54 So literally you felt like the Holy Spirit gave you 18:57 an image, this is what your heart looked like, 18:59 and now it is clean? - Yeah. 19:02 It's huge. - and Jesus spoke clean to my heart. 19:08 Go ahead. - it was just a process we were going through, 19:15 working through, a person from church. 19:17 It wasn't like we just decided we were going to talk 19:20 about this, it was actually having sheets of paper that 19:23 we could write things on that happen to us, and we would 19:26 go through pray about it. 19:29 You're breaking that were you allowed Satan into your 19:34 heart, and into your life, so by taking that and feeling 19:39 that pain, you are taking back that ownership of that pain. 19:43 You're breaking that stronghold by giving it to Jesus. 19:48 Therefore Satan has no more bounds on that. 19:52 I love that because you are talking about Pastor Joe, right? 19:56 Pastor Joe one time explained to me, which I thought was 19:59 interesting because he's from an attorney or lawyers point 20:01 of view, is that we opened these doors to the devil. 20:06 The doors are open through hurt and anger and pain and 20:10 bitterness at all that stuff. 20:12 We open these doors and we actually have given him, 20:16 or covenant with him to give him that ground. 20:19 Then we pray, Satan can stand next to God and say, 20:24 I'm sorry he gave me that ground. 20:26 He opened that door, he's not even asking 20:29 You in that area of his life. 20:31 And what Pastor Joe sent me one time, I'm not sure if what 20:33 he said to you was that if God came into that area then, 20:36 it would be criminal interference on God's part. 20:39 It is like God has no right in an area that 20:42 we have surrender to the devil himself. 20:44 Joe would just look at you and say, please shut that door. 20:48 Repent of that and take responsibility and give it back 20:52 to God, because He is the one the covenant His blood for us. 20:55 When you visually start to see that, it's like oh. 20:59 I want to shut those doors, I want to take that and 21:04 say, God, I need You in those areas. 21:06 Those areas are too deep for me to carry. 21:09 Not only that but you can break a lot of the generational 21:13 pain that is passed down through the families, 21:18 which happens a lot. 21:20 Did you sense that, when you worked on anything, 21:23 is that you had stuff that you see in your family? 21:26 Talk about some of that. 21:28 Well I knew there was, I had known that there was 21:32 some pain in my family that had gone back 21:36 a few generations. 21:38 I know now that that is broken and it won't be passed on. 21:42 Any specifics? - There were sexual abuse, 21:46 which kept coming down the line. 21:54 The reason I say that is because Brad, I always look at 21:58 Brad as being the perfect one out of the two. 22:01 He's a Boy Scout and I'm the homeless drug addict. 22:05 We went to Brad's fathers house after he died, 22:09 I was cleaning things out and we found a ton of porn 22:13 and videos and all that stuff and realized that through 22:18 the years, he was raised as a little boy in that 22:20 environment, a very sexualized environment. 22:22 All of a sudden he saw that from his dad, and he loves his dad, 22:26 it is not anything about his love for his dad, 22:29 but when he saw that, he realized that his sexual 22:32 issues stemmed from his dad, 22:35 whose stemmed from his dad. 22:37 The same thing is that you realize, I'm going in and ask 22:40 God, can You can break that from in our family? 22:43 In our family that's always followed us, sometimes it's 22:46 anger, sometimes it's sexual, sometimes it is depression, 22:49 but being able to say is, God it's done. 22:53 Somebody has to blink and I'm blinking. 22:56 I don't want this to follow our family anymore. 22:59 It is absolutely is huge and I think it's interesting when 23:03 talking to you guys is, do you feel when it's happening, 23:07 you almost see it, that it is done. 23:10 My kids don't have to deal with this. 23:12 - right! I can feel that, but there is still the pain, 23:17 the emotional damage that has done to the people it has 23:22 happened to in the family. 23:23 That makes my heart yearn for their freedom of that 23:29 emotional damage. 23:32 Were you able to go back to some family members and pray 23:35 with them, talk to them about what you are learning? 23:38 I've been able to talk about it, but bringing them to a place 23:43 where they are willing to surrender, I don't know if they 23:49 are quite there yet. 23:51 So tell me the work you have done, another thing you guys 23:55 had to work through, you are talking about a thing he 23:59 does with moral inventory. 24:01 That is a tough one, the decisions you have made in your 24:06 life, do they matter now? 24:10 Are you asking me that? Yeah! 24:12 I mean when we got to that, he was like you need to put 24:16 down everybody that you ever slept with on there. 24:19 I'm like, you're kidding me right? 24:21 Because there are some guys I don't even know their names. 24:24 To actually go through that, at first I was really 24:29 intimidated and scared, even though we knew him, 24:33 I knew I was with Jeremy, it was still scary to come 24:37 face-to-face with that, but I did it. 24:40 Afterward Jesus prompted me, standing in this beautiful 24:46 white dress, and said I was pure. 24:49 To hear that, to feel that was like, I was trashy. 24:55 So to actually feel that and hear that from Him was huge. 25:00 I see that in a huge way, as you confess right now, 25:05 is that God says until we surrender that stuff, 25:09 I think we just bury it further and further, 25:13 and further, and further thinking it is going away. 25:16 God says, I'm asking you to confess your sins and I am 25:19 faithful and just to forgive you. 25:22 Instead of confessing, we don't want to look at it again. 25:27 I don't want to see it again. 25:28 I don't want to do any of that, and we bury it. 25:30 It's interesting for Brad and I when he turned around, 25:35 at one point and said, I'm sorry for the women I've been 25:40 with in my life. 25:42 Would you forgive me, he asked for my forgiveness before 25:45 he asked God to forgive him. 25:47 I didn't realize I needed, I did realize I longed for him to 25:51 say that, to say I'm sorry. 25:53 I just cried. 25:56 - there was a healing moment, with Jeremy and I, when we were 25:59 in there that Pastor Joe asked how I felt about Jeremy 26:05 going out and not calling me or whatever. 26:08 How he does it is he leads us into prayer so he would say 26:13 it, and Jeremy would have to repeat it to me. 26:16 Jeremy repeated to me, and asked me how I felt, 26:19 just how did that make you feel? 26:22 I lost it, nobody had ever asked me how it made me feel, 26:26 how anything made me feel. 26:28 My dad leaving, me having to take care of my siblings, 26:31 they did ask me my opinion. 26:33 So that was huge, that was totally huge. 26:36 So I can tell it is still huge. - yeah. 26:39 What was your hearts saying about that? 26:42 Was like somebody finally cared? Finally saw it? 26:47 Yeah, it was like he was caring for me, 26:49 he's truly caring for me, yeah. 26:52 What's amazing, and I know you guys have felt that, 26:57 that moment where you realize that God actually wants to 27:01 heal my heart, God actually wants me to feel what 27:05 it feels like to surrender that to Him and feel the 27:08 freedom of being loved. 27:10 Is that a little scary at first? 27:13 Or does it feel like you just want to grab on? 27:16 It's like, I actually have somebody who loves me 27:20 unconditionally and even though Jeremy has been working 27:24 on my heart and still cares for my heart, there are things 27:28 that he does that it hurts. 27:30 He doesn't do it intentionally, but God is unconditional. 27:34 He never hurts, He's always, He gives me those clean 27:40 pictures, that your pure, I love you and it's so gentle 27:46 and nothing like I had ever, ever experienced. 27:49 I never had God ever in my life. 27:51 So to have something like Him in my life is awesome. 27:56 - And He's in those darker places too. 27:59 I think it would make sense if somebody said, He came in 28:04 and showed me that He loved me, as I was doing Sabbath 28:09 school class, if you know what I mean. 28:11 But He doesn't, He shows it as I'm trying deal with these 28:15 abortions, or the sense of not being loved at all, 28:18 or sleeping with someone and all that kind of stuff. 28:21 Like God is in your darker places, I know you and I want 28:24 to heal those places. 28:26 I want you to stand and walk away to those places. 28:29 I want you to surrender that junk to Me, and when you 28:34 do that, our recovery, our ability to stand up in Christ 28:39 and feel that joy of who He is, and who we are in Him, 28:43 that starts to wake up in us. 28:45 Did you feel that before you did this work? 28:49 Did you feel that to this extent? - No! 28:53 What was the difference? - My heart was in it. 28:58 Explain that more, because I want someone to know the 29:02 difference of why anyone go through the point of trying 29:05 to find out the stuff to surrender to God? 29:08 Trying to get rid of this stuff. 29:09 Well, from the heart, when I would try to do it, or talk to 29:17 her she would be in pain, I would want to talk at the head 29:24 level to her about that. 29:26 Trying to get out and rationalize it, that's what 29:30 would happen before. - all that, that's not logical, 29:34 that doesn't make sense. 29:36 - why are you getting mad it's just a piece of cheese. 29:39 Seriously, it wasn't about the piece of cheese, it was 29:42 about what happened 15 years ago that he is stepping on 29:45 that and not realizing it. 29:47 - right, and once I learned how to, I'm still working 29:52 on it, I haven't arrived. 29:56 It takes me a little time to actually step back and say, 29:59 okay she's in pain and let's find out why and then try to 30:03 drop into her heart and see were the feeling is coming from. 30:06 What's interesting is when you said you haven't arrived yet, 30:10 I have known you guys for a while now, and watching this 30:14 process with you is amazing because I feel like God finally 30:18 got you to the point where He is saying now, 30:21 let's get rid of this garbage. 30:23 It's almost like we all walk around with these suitcases 30:28 hanging all around us and we are trying to figure out 30:33 why does it feel so heavy all the time? 30:35 Why do I feel so burdened all the time? 30:38 God says because you are carrying all that, so the fact 30:41 that you guys are even starting to care for each other's 30:45 hearts, is absolutely a God thing and the Holy Spirit is 30:48 working in such incredible ways with you. 30:51 The reason I like covering this is because I pray for 30:57 anybody that wants to do this recovery. 30:59 Anybody that wants to literally walk away from all that 31:02 junk, is that you have to surrender the junk, confess the 31:05 junk, give it to God, do it with people that love you, 31:08 grab some support people around you and be free. 31:14 - that is one of the biggest thing is have people around 31:16 you that care about you. 31:18 My sisters and brother don't have God in their life. 31:24 They say they believe in God, but they don't have a church 31:28 family and so it is hard, not having my immediate family 31:32 beside me when I was going through all this, 31:35 but I had a church family. 31:36 I had this spiritual family that truly cared about what 31:40 was going on in my heart. 31:41 - when we talk about our addictions, we start to isolate 31:47 become, we break away from folks, in recovery we cannot 31:51 fully recover until we start to develop community again. 31:55 It is real scary because in a community you need to be 31:59 trustworthy, well I do not know how to do that, 32:01 You know what I mean? 32:02 When somebody says, I can't find anybody trustworthy, 32:05 I'm not trustworthy so it is like I know that and until 32:08 I get into my healing, I can't fully do that for you. 32:11 But if we both decide to heal together, we can be 32:14 accountable to each other in those very things. 32:17 I love what you said Heidi, it is like developing those. 32:21 Was that hard for you at first, because coming into 32:25 a church is new, and then coming into a church and 32:27 being real enough to connect. 32:29 When we started going toward church, within three or four 32:33 months I got plugged into children's ministry even though 32:37 I had never ever done it before. 32:38 It was totally foreign to me and I was learning more than 32:41 the kids were and that is why I learned some of the Bible 32:44 stories and things like that. 32:46 I then started 12-step with somebody there in the church. 32:50 Jeremy and I did the 12-step group and just slowly started 32:54 pickup groups and then marriage seminars and little things 32:59 like that that slowly, little bit here a little bit there. 33:03 I mean just three weeks ago God took away my identity. 33:08 And my identity was focused on him. 33:12 - I was fixing an addict, I was going to rescue. 33:15 God asked me to give it to Him and I cried, big-time cried. 33:19 I'm like, You are taking away everything I have ever known. 33:23 - since you were little girl you are always tried to 33:26 fix people and make it right and do all that. 33:29 I'm battling, who am I, what is my identity? 33:31 Who am I? Finally He took away that false identity of 33:36 having to take care of everybody else. 33:39 So now He is going to show you who you are? - Um Hmmm! 33:44 I want to tell you that I think you are fabulous, 33:47 and I know you do not know that fully yet. 33:49 That is what I think it is incredible about God is that 33:52 we do not even know who we are, yet we hold on to this 33:55 false identity from all this pain and God says, 33:59 it is hard for Me to rip them out of your hand. 34:03 This is not about you, this has never been true and yet 34:07 I want to bless you with everything. 34:09 I want to give you the desires of your heart, but your 34:12 heart is so locked up and stuffed with, you know when 34:15 somebody says, that it's a miracle when He parted the sea? 34:17 I think it's a miracle He opens a heart up. 34:21 And recovery is about that, God wants to open our hearts 34:25 and heal us completely. 34:27 I'm even starting to invite people over to the ranch, 34:30 to my place and walk them through this process just to 34:34 say let's free you up. 34:35 It really is simple because it is a simple command, 34:39 confess to one another, pray for each other so that 34:42 you can healed, it really is confessing all that junk 34:45 and not hiding it, don't let it sit in there anymore 34:48 because it festers. 34:49 Like you are saying, you have mold on your heart in that 34:51 first image, and God said you weren't supposed to have 34:54 that, and let Me heal you. 34:56 I'm going to open up for questions, because I know there 34:59 are questions in the café, but I don't want to stop, 35:02 I love you guys, I love you guys. 35:04 So we are going to open up for questions, 35:06 does anybody have a question? 35:08 My name is Karen-Lyn and I can just so relate to your story 35:11 because I was raised a people pleaser too, to the point 35:15 that I don't even know who I am. 35:16 I came from a very, very strict family so law was 35:18 something I had to learn to live with. 35:21 Now I was brought into the church this way and I looked at 35:25 God as a law, trying to keep the law and now I am finding 35:28 out that God really cares about me and what is in my heart. 35:31 I'm not supposed to be keeping the law, I'm supposed be 35:34 following Him, and I don't know how to do that. 35:36 How did you learn to surrender that, because I find myself 35:40 still wanting to work for His pleasure, or to please Him 35:43 and I don't know how to sit back and let Him do it. 35:48 I can say, fortunately for me, I wasn't brought up in 35:52 the church, so I didn't know the laws. 35:55 I actually started with the heart. 35:58 It never was a legalistic issue with you? No! 36:01 I did go to church and people would say, why aren't you 36:03 wearing a dress? 36:04 Or you can't smoke, because I was a smoker back then and 36:06 I went through Bible studies. 36:08 - asking where is the ashtray? 36:10 Yeah, and I finished the years worth of Bible studies and 36:13 said I ready for baptism, and they are like well you have 36:16 to kick the smoking habit first before we can baptize you. 36:19 I'm thinking wait a minute, you just taught me all this 36:22 about how God's love is so, this is it and now you are 36:26 telling me all these rules. 36:30 To me, the little I know, and again I came from a similar 36:34 background, not a church background. 36:36 What I have seen is that it is really difficult for 36:41 someone in the church to look at that balance between 36:47 grace and the law, because the law is not bad. 36:51 Paul said the law is not a bad thing, 36:54 there is nothing wrong with the law that I couldn't 36:57 keep it, but there is a balance there. 36:59 I think what happened is that we don't really see the 37:02 love of God, or the heart of God towards us, it is hard 37:05 for us to do anything because that is the response we have 37:08 towards the law, and with somebody that is raised in the 37:12 church what I can encourage them is to start asking every 37:17 day for the Holy Spirit and asked the Holy Spirit 37:19 to help me to fall in love with God, 37:21 help me to see the heart of God. 37:22 I think in that we really start to really, 37:25 I'm surprised, I thought I was finally going to get well 37:29 and healed and filled up and fit in when God comes back 37:33 and I am in heaven. 37:35 And I think at one point, when I was working with Brad 37:38 on an issue, and I looked at him and he so loved me, 37:41 and I so felt that. 37:42 At that moment I felt so full, and I heard God say, 37:47 I want you well now, I want you laughing out loud now. 37:53 I just wanted to weep because I had no idea that 37:56 Your healing was for us now. 37:58 So I think that if you are raised in a real legalistic 38:01 environment, if you were damaged in that way, it is really 38:04 harder, but you have to fight to see the heart of God. 38:07 Ask the Holy Spirit to show it too, because I don't 38:10 think we have it in ourselves to get that image. 38:12 It has to be an image given to us by the Holy Spirit. 38:15 - absolutely, and the works part comes with the 38:18 relationship, it naturally comes. 38:20 It becomes a promise, the Commandments become promises. 38:25 The closer the relationship you have with Jesus, the more you 38:31 won't do those things. 38:33 - the more you desire to please God and He fills you up 38:35 with a Spirit that steers you in that direction. 38:38 Just an example with that, and tell me if you guys are 38:40 getting that, because Brad and I are sure getting this. 38:44 As I start to see Brad trying to win my heart literally, 38:48 like you are saying, sometimes it is hard for me to get 38:51 from my head to my heart. 38:52 But when Brad does that, I want to do everything for him. 38:56 I want to go in and cook, and I'm not that good at it. 39:00 I want to go in and do anything because I love you and 39:05 I want you to know that and I want to be 39:07 such an incredible wife. 39:08 At one point I thought this is the first time in my life 39:11 that Proverbs 31 were it actually made sense to me. 39:14 I want to do that for him, and I think it's the same 39:17 thing with God and our love for Him, and the response 39:21 to what God requires of us is that as I see His heart to 39:24 me, I want to say that the Commandments say, don't lie, 39:28 don't steal, don't do all this stuff and 39:30 I want to do that for Him. 39:32 I want to change because I love Him so much. 39:37 His heart is so amazing towards me, so it is a responding 39:41 in a whole different way. 39:42 The law hasn't changed at all, but I have changed in 39:46 every way, it is an incredible, incredible thing. 39:49 Is there any more questions? 39:51 Tammy I know you had a question. 39:53 This is the first time I have really maybe tried to 39:59 understand what codependency is so I would like to just 40:02 know where the line is drawn between helping someone, 40:06 and helping them in their codependency? 40:09 What is helping or what is hindering? 40:11 It is a great question. - it is! 40:15 Codependency is doing it for myself. 40:19 It is like it feeds my addiction - I need to be needed. 40:25 I need to be needed and also it is not in a healthy way. 40:29 I mean I was covering things up for Jeremy, I was telling 40:33 people he was this wonderful guy and dah, dah, dah. 40:35 He was out dealing dope, so I was always covering up for 40:41 him - making excuses for him - making excuses. 40:44 Even to the point were someone deep in codependency issues 40:48 will almost sabotage any kind of healing that happens. 40:53 I don't know if you can recognize yet what sabotaging 40:57 is, talk a little bit about that? 41:00 You can't let him get well because if he gets well 41:02 then you have nothing to do. 41:04 Well it was like when he would stay out all night and 41:05 then come home, all I would do is badger him. 41:07 Why did you do this? Why did you do that? 41:09 Instead of God telling me I need to be humble and to say, 41:12 okay, I'm glad you're safe and home, is there anything 41:16 I can get for you and go about my day. 41:18 While he was out it would just eat at me the whole time. 41:21 That consumed me, totally consumed me, above my kids, 41:25 and above everything. 41:26 Where he was and what he was doing consumed me. 41:29 Helping him would be making him coffee, or making him 41:34 breakfast in bed and it not be a condition, 41:37 something that he had earned. 41:40 For women who would say, are you kidding me? 41:44 Making him breakfast in bed, he's been up all night. 41:46 So even setting boundaries, like helping him would be 41:50 setting boundaries for him instead of just staying angry 41:54 and trying to make him make it right. 41:56 With a codependent it is that you are consumed with making 42:02 it right, and he has to make it right, right now, 42:05 and nothing is right so you stay in this craziness and it 42:07 keeps happening until the addict will usually go out and 42:10 use again and a codependent becomes very angry again, 42:13 and the kids are not even being fed. 42:15 When you look at the situation, the situation is crazy 42:18 even though it looks like the person that is helping, 42:22 Heidi, is doing the right thing. 42:24 She is just trying to get Jeremy, which is the meth addict 42:28 to stop acting out, in reality is that both of them are 42:32 dysfunctional, both of them are feeding off each other. 42:35 Neither one can get well until both of them made 42:38 a commitment to get well. 42:40 A codependent is the hardest one to point out because it 42:44 looks like, when people are saying Heidi, look what you 42:47 have to deal with, look what you are putting up with. 42:49 You really want to hold the codependent, because you think 42:53 they are doing all the right things when in reality there 42:56 is no right thing being done in this home until God 42:59 finally got your attention. 43:02 - Right. -Um Hummm. 43:03 Man am I glad He got your attention. 43:05 We are going to go ahead and take a break. 43:06 We are going to come back and I would like to invite Heidi 43:09 and Jeremy back just to close out the program with me. 43:12 I'm so proud of God, sometimes we act like fools, but God 43:16 just says, you know what I am bigger than that and if you 43:19 trust Me, I will free your heart up and we'll show you what 43:22 it feels like to be loved and to be safe. 43:24 We will be right back, stay with us! |
Revised 2014-12-17