Participants: Cheri Peters (Host), Wayne Blakely
Series Code: CLR
Program Code: CLR00093A
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00:11 Welcome to Celebrating Life In Recovery,
00:13 I'm Cheri your host. 00:14 Wayne are we going to talk about homosexuality today? 00:17 Um, that's what I hear. - Oh man, you have to join us. 00:51 Hello, you know what this program is amazing to me. 00:53 I say that with every program because we have some 00:56 incredible guests, but before we get into the program 00:59 I want to tell you a couple weeks ago I was at church 01:02 and my Pastor who is Randy Maxwell, an incredible Pastor, 01:06 but my Pastor was doing a whole series on the life of 01:10 Christ, the life of Jesus. 01:12 And it was brilliant, if you want to go online, go online 01:17 find it, it was just brilliant. 01:19 The last day I was sitting there and he wraps it up and 01:22 I'm in awe of how he wrapped it up. 01:27 Then all of a sudden Bruce Marciano walks in and I don't 01:30 know if anybody knows him but he played Jesus in a film called 01:34 The Gospel According to Matthew. 01:36 It's my favorite film on Jesus, and he walks in and I'm 01:39 like oh stop, and I know his whole story. 01:42 I know that his whole recovery, or his spiritual recovery 01:48 anyway happened during the making of that movie when 01:50 he was playing the life of Christ. 01:52 He really learned and understood who God was. 01:55 There were times that he just wept and wept and couldn't 01:58 even do the scene because the Holy Spirit just showed him 02:02 exactly what Jesus went through during that time. 02:04 But there was one scene in that movie that got to me, and he 02:09 did stuff that was so real in that scene. 02:12 Some of the stuff that he did was there was a point where 02:15 he heals this guy that has leprosy. 02:17 The guy is just riddled with leprosy in parts of his body 02:22 has deteriorated, or been cut off because lepers can't 02:26 feel well and the skin is flaky. 02:29 You could tell his nose, he had half a nose and all that 02:33 stuff in this leper was walking by and he looked up and 02:37 he is covered with these rags because lepers were kicked 02:41 out of the community and weren't allowed to be around anybody. 02:44 So he just has rags on, and he puts the rag over his face 02:49 and kneels down and he says to Jesus, I know that if You 02:53 wanted to You could make me clean, You could make me well. 02:57 In the film, Jesus turns around and tears up and He says, 03:02 I do want to, be clean. 03:05 All of a sudden, in that moment, the guy is totally healed and 03:10 the skin is like baby skin. 03:12 In the Gospel according to Matthew, they go word for word 03:15 by the Bible, they don't add anything, or take 03:18 anything away, so word for word by the Bible. 03:20 So when he turns around to Jesus, and he is totally clean, 03:25 he jumps up and screams and starts crying, then he starts 03:30 laughing, and then runs to Jesus and leaps on Him. 03:34 They both fall on the ground and busting up, just laughing, 03:37 just holding each other. 03:39 I thought, you know what, I bet that is how it happened. 03:41 I bet it just didn't happen where he was cleaned and 03:44 healed and said no thank you so much and walked away. 03:47 Of course he was thrilled, of course it was this 03:50 incredible thing, so the movie really got to me. 03:54 There was one scene where Jesus is talking about the 03:59 Beatitudes and that stuff and He's talking, He talks about the 04:03 speck in your brothers eye, you know? 04:05 While he is talking, he sees a log laying there and he 04:10 picks up the log and he tries to hold it in front of his 04:14 face, in His own eye. 04:16 It says it is like you were trying to get a speck out of 04:19 your brothers eye when you have this log in yours. 04:22 He tries to hold it and it kinds of tilting back and forth and 04:25 telling his brother come over here so I can get the 04:28 speck out of your eye, but he has this huge log in his eye, 04:31 well everybody starts laughing. 04:33 I thought that is probably how it happened too, that it 04:37 was that Jesus used what was around Him to make the 04:40 illustrations about whatever He was making at the time. 04:44 In that particular illustration he said we tend to look at 04:48 people, we look at what you're doing wrong, or what you're 04:52 doing wrong, or what kind of sins you have in your life. 04:55 I'm not even paying attention to log that I am carrying 04:59 around in comparison to the one you have got. 05:03 Remember that on this particular program you are going to 05:06 want to bring up some judgments, as some of you have 05:09 strong opinions about what we are going to talk about 05:11 today, well I'm going to beg you, be careful because we are 05:15 all walking around with this huge log and trying to get 05:19 specks out of other people's eyes. 05:21 So on that note, Wayne I want to thank you for coming 05:25 on the program. - absolutely. 05:27 You know what I am saying? - I do. 05:29 So when I talk about that kind of thing, first of all 05:33 have you ever felt judged? - I have, yes definitely. 05:37 From the beginning, from the very beginning. 05:42 From the time you walked into the church or from the time you? 05:45 - from the time I was born. 05:47 Okay, so I want to even go there because I want by the 05:51 end of this program, I want to know you. 05:53 Do you know what I mean? - absolutely. 05:56 I can't know you like God knows you, but I want the audience, 05:58 the people in the café, I want everyone 06:01 to know you and your struggle, and your walk, and what 06:03 broke your heart, and what filled you with joy. 06:05 Because you are somewhat like this leper that says, I know 06:10 that if You wanted to, You can make me clean. 06:15 Yes, when you were speaking about that I thought that is 06:17 exactly who I identify with prior to being born. 06:24 My natural mother walked with me during that pregnancy 06:29 and during those particular times they didn't have the 06:34 sonography and all that they have today. 06:36 So she didn't know which gender would be born. 06:39 But people that knew her and were around her, she would 06:46 continually say to them, I'm having a baby girl. 06:49 They would say, oh really how do you know that? 06:51 She says, I don't know I'm just having a baby girl. 06:54 - you just feel it. - yes I know it and I'm not going to have 06:56 a baby boy because I only want a baby girl. 06:59 Therefore she had it planted in her mind throughout the 07:03 entire pregnancy that was the intent and that is what 07:06 would happen, it was almost like she could have forced 07:09 the gender by her thinking. 07:11 Then as soon as I was born she rejected me immediately 07:17 because I wasn't that little precious baby girl she had 07:22 hoped for. - and I think that only in heaven are we 07:27 going to understand that even as a fetus, even as an 07:32 infant we can feel that rejection. 07:35 We can feel when we are not wanted or loved, we know it. 07:39 - yeah. - somebody says an infant doesn't know 07:41 anything, I don't buy that. 07:43 Well the first two to three years, the most impressionable 07:46 years, so they pick up while they are not communicating 07:49 verbally, they are taking in all the senses that are 07:53 around them so they know innately know what is going on 07:55 from a mother and whether the love is there or it is not. 07:58 - Amen! so what happened? 08:01 There was little she could do about the fact, 08:02 she couldn't give it back and so she tried to make do. 08:08 She had, I have a sister who was or is a year older than me and 08:14 so she was living on an Air Force Base at the time. 08:18 My natural father was gone pretty much all of the time. 08:22 - because he was in the service? - in the Air Force. 08:26 He had a career in the Air Force. 08:28 Neighbors begin to indicate to him that they thought 08:33 perhaps I wasn't being treated with the best of care. 08:37 He thought they were nosy neighbors and didn't give it 08:41 as much consideration as maybe he should have at the time, 08:45 but he came home from one of his assignments one 08:51 time and noticed that my arm, my left arm was in a bandage 08:56 and a sling and he thought it might be a big indicator, 09:01 my natural mother said I had bursitis. 09:04 He took it as a signal that it probably wasn't bursitis 09:09 in a little young infant. 09:11 So he had his relatives, his sisters in California, 09:16 Southern California that said they would go ahead and 09:21 take me and watch over me for awhile. 09:24 I was eventually adopted by an aunt and uncle who are 09:30 now my parents. My dad was an x-ray technician at the 09:34 time that they took me, they took me and had my arm 09:38 x- rayed and it was broken in two places. - wow! 09:42 So the rejection was immediate and then the rejection 09:47 that ensued, or the reaction to that abuse and to the 09:53 rejection of my mother began to shape my life. 09:57 Right, and you know when you talk about that, your dad 10:00 even though in his heart, was trying to do the right thing 10:03 by sending you to an aunt and uncle and you have the 10:05 rejection by your father. 10:07 You know what I mean, because he is still not around. 10:11 Right, right. Yeah I don't know that I really thought 10:14 of that too much at the time. 10:16 He did visit throughout the years and we stayed in close 10:22 contact so I don't, I think what probably affected me 10:27 the most was the rejection of my natural mother. 10:30 But at a young age I began to act out, by the time I was two 10:35 and three years old I was running around the house with 10:40 scarves and whatever I could find and say, yelling and 10:43 screaming, I don't want to be a boy, I want to be a girl. 10:47 - if you were a girl everything would have been okay? 10:51 Well it would have been perfect I guess. 10:52 Yeah, in my mind I guess because it had been drummed in, it had 10:58 been drummed in prenatally and I believe postnatally 11:02 no one really knows exactly what all took place in the 11:06 time my mother was alone with me. 11:09 But I am sure she must have pretended that I was that 11:15 baby girl, so it was a big indication that this is some 11:21 thing I see as when you talk about what brings about 11:25 homosexuality, I think homosexuality can come from 11:30 so many different sources. 11:33 It can come from the early stages of prenatal influence. 11:38 It can come from postnatal experiences. 11:40 It is not something that somebody just walks into and 11:45 chooses. - right, so to me what is really tough is that 11:49 on a topic that I know it will be tough like this, I want to 11:52 tell the viewer I don't care where you are at on this 11:55 particular point, I want them to fall in love with the heart 11:59 of this child, if you know what I mean? 12:02 Let's let everything fallout the way it is going to fall 12:06 out, but first fall in love with this child. 12:08 So you are running around trying to be that, scarves and 12:13 probably have fantasies that I am a little girl and all 12:18 that stuff and would imagine now your parents, 12:21 your adoptive parents are trying to fix that. 12:25 They can't fix that. - no, they couldn't. 12:28 I mean everyone was a little stunned because it wasn't 12:33 something that you normally saw. 12:35 So not having the desires for little toy cars and soldiers 12:42 and cowboys and Indians and trucks, things were a bit 12:45 concerning to them, and when they put those things in 12:49 front of me and tried to get me to interact with them 12:53 I would still go back and I wanted a doll for Christmas. 12:58 I had interest in creative things, in color and in design. 13:03 They would keep trying to realign me to some form of 13:08 masculinity. - here's a G.I. Joe, come on. 13:10 Like what's up with you. - some transformers come on. 13:13 Go hit somebody.- Thankfully they prayed to God before they 13:18 adopted me and felt impressed by God to take me in 13:22 and keep me as their child. 13:23 But little did they know what laid ahead of them and 13:26 I certainly didn't know what laid ahead of me. 13:28 But by the time I began to attend school these traits 13:36 just continued to grow. 13:38 From the first day of school until the last I didn't want 13:42 to be there because the harassment, the teasing, 13:46 the bullying, bullying is not a good thing. 13:50 Talk about bullying, because there has been in the news 13:53 even bullying to the point of people being murdered 13:55 and killed and definitely suicidal and suiciding, so you 14:00 got all that stuff because we can be horrendously cruel 14:04 to each other and if anything is out of the norm we have 14:08 talked on other programs about out of the norm people 14:11 kind of gather around and it is almost like pack animals 14:15 sometimes with how we treat one another. 14:18 You experienced that in school. - I did. 14:21 I would come home from school sometimes because of the 14:25 teasing and harassment and I would go into the bathroom 14:28 and I would close the door and I would stand in front of 14:33 the mirror and I would punch my face and say, God why did 14:37 You, why did You make me a boy when I'm supposed to be 14:41 a girl, and there was nothing I could do about it. 14:47 I can't even imagine having to be in that much pain. 14:52 That I just want to, I just want to hurt myself. 14:56 I do not want to be this. 14:59 And then to have to come out of the bathroom. 15:02 If you know what I mean, you have to open the door and 15:04 come out. - right. - I have to wash my face. 15:07 Yeah, and go back to school another day. 15:11 I learned, I only learned this a couple years ago but 15:15 there was a kid that was getting beat up on the way 15:19 home from school who the people that beat him up thought 15:25 they were beating me up. - Wow! 15:28 So I can only imagine the pain that, that inflicted on 15:33 that individual that was perfectly normal, or what was 15:37 considered to be normal. - yeah, yeah. 15:40 Because you know there is no normal today. - right. 15:44 That is, to me, the saddest thing is that I work with people 15:48 all the time, and you are struggling with this one thing. 15:52 All the way across the board we struggle with different 15:56 things, but for some reason society picks certain sins, 16:01 or certain lifestyles, or certain leanings as that is 16:05 unacceptable and you had one that was in a lot of 16:10 communities unacceptable and which then puts it in the 16:13 shadow so you have to try and pretend you are not that. 16:17 You have to pretend that I don't have these struggles about 16:21 wanting to be a girl and all that stuff I can't say out 16:24 loud to anybody because they freak out or get abusive. 16:29 So then I step into my teen years and what does that look 16:34 like, because at one point did you ever get to the point 16:38 where I just accept this, I just accept this is who I am 16:42 and I don't care about what you feel anymore? 16:45 Did you ever get to that point of rebellion or anger? 16:50 I did, on the way there I had what I currently see as 16:55 probably has happened to a number of heterosexual men. 17:01 There is in those early teen years, there is what may be 17:06 considered a natural sexual exploration with one another 17:11 that they never speak of to this day. 17:13 They cork that and never let that surface, but to me 17:17 when that happened I saw that as acceptance. 17:21 Let's talk about that because people don't talk about 17:24 that. Like when I going to high schools and colleges 17:28 people will mention that to me is that a lot of times, 17:30 especially nowadays, but it has always kind of been that 17:34 way is that you will have girls experimenting with girls 17:37 or boys experimenting with boys, and it is not every 17:39 single child, but it is enough. - Yes! 17:42 Nobody ever, it is just experimentation or whatever is 17:47 in people's minds and what I know is that there is a writer 17:53 in my church, Ellen White that is incredible. 17:56 She has incredible gifts, but she said at one point that 17:59 as we come to Christ that all our generational sin's, 18:03 cultivated sins which are things we act out with and continue 18:07 to act out with and find desires for and now wants for. 18:11 We seek after all of those things with our recovery, 18:14 and with the baptism of the Holy Spirit, or the gift of 18:17 the Holy Spirit, gets dealt with. 18:20 But you are talking about in school, at that same-sex 18:24 experimentation is now being cultivated. 18:26 People don't talk about that. - no! 18:28 The reason I want to break here is because I want to say, 18:31 I want to look at the camera and say, if you are there 18:34 and you have always felt guilty or a shame about that 18:37 take that to God, He knows exactly what we are dealing 18:40 with, He knows exactly what we play around with as kids. 18:45 I was five years old the first time a same-sex situation 18:49 happened with me and I can't tell you how years and years 18:52 and years I thought I wonder if I am all that kind of 18:56 stuff. God says you know what? Bring that to Me. 18:58 Don't let your own mind or the devil himself play with 19:02 that, let Me have those things. 19:04 So now you are in high school and playing around with 19:08 all that stuff and finding, again reinforcing the fact 19:12 that I should've been a girl. 19:15 Yes I was, when I had that mutual sexual experience with 19:23 other guys I began to think that I was normal. 19:27 I thought oh finally I have been accepted, it was an 19:32 affirmation that all guys must do this and go through this 19:36 and then this went on for a year or, maybe two. 19:41 Then these guys began to say, well they weren't really 19:45 interested in this anymore, or that they were interested 19:50 in girls and I thought okay I'm a little late. 19:53 You know I kept waiting for that to click and to kick in. 19:58 But it didn't go away, I still wanted the love and the 20:03 masculinity and the comfort that there seemed to be when 20:07 I was around another guy as opposed to a woman. 20:11 When I was in my high school years, or long before then 20:18 I should say that I already recognized in God's word that 20:24 something wasn't adding up. 20:26 Because your family was Christians, so they had, 20:30 so you're family was Adventist and were going to church and 20:34 you were in the Word of God? - absolutely. 20:35 So you are saying, man? Yeah to go back a little bit. 20:41 When I was a kid and I was being recognized that these 20:45 traits were taking place, these feminine traits and 20:48 whatnot, my parents began to look to the church. 20:52 They began to look to Christian psychology, something that 20:57 could give them a clue as to what was going on and 21:00 what to do about it. - Right! 21:01 A little while they were more active trying to figure out 21:06 maybe more silently than, and I was also silently trying to 21:10 figure out with God what happened. 21:13 Because if I'm going according to Your word here I am starting 21:18 to shape up and beginning to look more like a homosexual. 21:21 From what I read in the Your word, 21:23 that is not an accepted practice. 21:25 So let me just say, and I don't want to offend anyone, 21:30 especially you Wayne, because I am considering you a friend and 21:35 we are starting to get to know each other and that stuff. 21:38 But during, I've never had a Christian hold up a sign and 21:43 say God hates fags, if you know what I mean? 21:45 Or God hates drug addicts or whatever, but you see signs 21:50 and anger and all kinds of stuff with the very thing that 21:55 is happening in your life you are seeing 21:56 Christians really raging about. 22:00 With my addictions, with drugs, with homelessness, 22:03 with molestation or whatever people don't hold up signs 22:06 with those and so not only are you dealing with your own 22:10 stuff, not only are you getting bullied at school and that 22:14 kind of thing but if you in fact are going in this direction you 22:18 have really no where to get support? - that is right. 22:21 Yeah that is right. - I can't imagine what that was like 22:24 and when did you realize the anger and the rage that some 22:27 even people of God have? 22:30 Well, you know in the church for me adults behaved 22:36 differently then the youth, and the way the adults 22:42 behaved where with a bit of silence and standoffishness' 22:48 and some whispering and a discomfort from being around you 22:53 It was like they knew something I didn't know. 22:56 But they weren't sharing it with me. 22:59 - they just knew you are not acceptable. - different. 23:02 What is really interesting is that because nobody is 23:07 speaking it is not acceptable and to me I can't, that 23:11 rejection again, like the rejection with your mom. 23:15 You know what I mean it is just painful - very painful. 23:18 I wish that somehow, there is no way to explain to 23:22 somebody what that pain looks like, or feels like. 23:26 I wish there was, I wish there was some way that somebody 23:30 could look on the outward side and see your pain. 23:34 Especially during those years because I know it was 23:37 significant. - yeah I think I was well into my 20s 23:41 before I recognized one day, I said I don't think I'm not 23:47 crying every day and prior to that every day had at lease 23:53 by the time I went to bed I was hugging my pillow or 23:57 burying my head. - or hitting yourself in the face. 24:02 Yeah that too. - wow, so did you ever at one point 24:08 just say I am done? I'm done with all this? 24:11 I did, I began to go to work after I graduated from 24:19 high school and was out on my own. 24:22 I wanted to go and explore because I knew that something 24:26 was missing in my life and I wanted to find some joy and 24:31 some happiness and I was working at Loma Linda University. 24:36 There was an orderly that worked on the unit with me, and 24:41 he was just a wildcat, he was just funny, he was crazy. 24:46 He had my attention all the time, and he said you need to 24:51 talk to my roommate Glenn. 24:53 So he got Glenn on the phone and I spoke with him on the 24:57 phone for a while and he seemed like a really nice guy. 25:01 He says oh you are just gay, you are gay. 25:04 I said I am what? And he said, you are gay. 25:06 I said what, I don't know what you mean by that, 25:09 what is that? Because at that particular time the word 25:13 had just barely surfaced. 25:15 I went to meet them at their apartment and developed 25:21 a friendship with him and he introduced me to 25:24 my first gay bar. - so then the lifestyle opens up. 25:28 - right. He walked me into a bar and I said all these men 25:32 in here are gay? And he said yeah they are. 25:36 I said Oh man, I cannot believe it, 25:38 I thought it was in heaven. 25:39 I mean I thought it was - I finally fit - no judgments. 25:43 Everyone was happy, everyone was laughing and they wanted 25:47 to get to know you, they had no judgment on you whatsoever. 25:52 So let's break some stereotypes right now because what 25:56 someone will say is they all just wanted sex. 25:59 Do you know what I mean? - yeah I do. 26:01 Because we look at our whole orientations and we just take 26:06 it down to an act, but your heart longed not so much, 26:10 not saying sex wasn't a part of anything but your heart 26:13 longed to be accepted and to be loved and to laugh and 26:16 not have all that pressure. 26:18 Yeah, well I finally, the Devil is very clever about how he 26:23 introduces deception and he knew what I was looking for. 26:29 He know I was looking for warmth, care and for love. 26:34 If he could provide that even in a simulated way, whether 26:38 or not it was genuine, he is in. 26:41 So I did, I began to find men and engage in sexual act's 26:48 but more than that it was the warmth of being hugged. 26:55 When you where lying naked next to someone the total body 27:00 warmth that you had up against that person - that you didn't 27:05 even have from a mother. - right. 27:07 I have just say that to a lot of people that will just 27:10 be offended by that imagery, you didn't even have 27:12 that by a mother, you didn't even have that in 27:15 any part of your life. 27:16 So sometimes we want to push away from those kinds of 27:21 realities, but the reality is for a lot of us is that 27:25 we will, we will sell our soul to the devil almost to 27:29 feel loved, to feel warm. 27:32 What you are saying is that I was so starved that, 27:37 that moment was worth everything that I had to go 27:41 through to get to that moment. - yes. 27:43 Again if anybody picked up that plank, be careful right 27:48 now, just be careful because God is crazy about you Wayne. 27:54 Thank you, I know. - okay go ahead. 27:57 That was the introduction to the cycle of finding relief 28:04 and some kind of, as a casting off of a huge burdens that 28:10 laid upon me in knowing that you were loved and accepted. 28:16 So that for some people, not all people, but significantly 28:22 in the gay community it begins a cycle of sexual 28:26 addiction. - okay so now we are going to stop on that. 28:29 We are going to take a break and come back and not only 28:32 talk about, a little bit about what that cycle is about, 28:37 but I want to hear what your journey back to God like, 28:41 and that is incredible to me. 28:43 Because the judgments we have on each other can take us 28:46 down, but God never condemns, He says, you know what? 28:50 I promise you, if you trust Me, all the pain you have 28:54 carried on your life, all the rejection, all be confusion 28:57 about all this kind of stuff, I have known you since you 29:01 were in the womb and I adore you, I adore you. 29:04 We will be right back, stay with us. |
Revised 2014-12-17