Participants: Steve Wohlberg (Host), Mike Carducci
Series Code: COT
Program Code: COT000002
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00:09 When most boys grow up at some point
00:10 they start liking girls 00:12 and as most girls grow up at some point 00:14 they start liking boys. 00:16 But it doesn't always happen that way. 00:18 We're gonna talk about this 00:20 on the next edition of Coming Out. 01:06 Welcome back to part two of Coming Out 01:09 special series produced by White Horse Media 01:11 and its dealing with homosexual issues, 01:14 lesbian issues, the Bible, Jesus Christ 01:17 and God's love and grace for all. 01:21 I'm here now with Mike Carducci who is also a cofounder, 01:26 one of the cofounders of Coming Out Ministries. 01:29 He's traveled quite a ways to get here 01:31 and we just want to again-- 01:33 as I welcome Wayne I welcome you. 01:35 Thank you for joining us for this special program. 01:39 Thank you, Steve. It's awesome to be here. 01:41 Yeah it's awesome to have you. 01:42 We don't know each other that well but feel a connection. 01:45 Oh, you will. 01:46 A connection in Christ. Right. 01:48 We don't have the same background 01:50 but there is a verse in the Bible in Romans 3:23 01:55 that says that "all have sinned, 01:57 and come short of the glory of God." 01:58 So whatever sin we fallen into we all have a common bond 02:03 whatever it is that we are sinners 02:06 and that we need, we need a Savior. 02:08 Amen. Amen. 02:09 Mike, one thing I want to ask you 02:10 which I was going to ask Waynee 02:12 but I forgot and that is, 02:14 is this kind of content really appropriate for kids? 02:18 I'm sure there's parents that are watching this 02:21 and maybe they're wondering, 02:22 you know, should I let my ten-year-old 02:24 or my twelve-year-old 02:25 or my eight-year-old sit in on this series? 02:28 So what's your thought on that? 02:30 Well, one thing I found Steve, 02:31 is you know the more places that I speak 02:34 and we even spoken at a grade schools, 02:37 you know, seventh grade and younger 02:39 but what we found is that 02:40 the kids are getting an education 02:42 whether you're in charge of that or not, 02:43 you know, from the school and the things that they, 02:46 you know, handheld devices 02:47 that have access to the Internet 02:49 and what we found is that 02:50 if a parent is willing to watch this 02:53 and to encourage dialogue afterwards 02:56 what you start doing is taking the dirtiness out of it 02:59 and the child can actually find a connection to the parent 03:02 to start being open and to, you know, 03:04 start to get healing if they've been defiled 03:07 and also to give them tools that if something does happen 03:10 or if they start to have questions or temptations 03:13 that they've already got this established relationship 03:16 where they can open a dialogue with their parent. 03:18 I think would be very beneficial 03:20 but of course maybe a parent would want to view the-- 03:22 The content first. Sure. 03:24 And obviously,obviously 03:25 parents have to make their own decisions. 03:27 We certainly leave it up to your conscience 03:28 but think the reality is that 03:31 there's a whole host of kids out there 03:33 that are already being exposed two things that are not good 03:38 and are not being presented in a biblical way. 03:41 And so for a large percentage for kids 03:43 we think that this is something 03:45 that they probably really do need to hear 03:48 and we will do our best by the grace of God 03:51 to keep things as clean as possible. 03:53 You know, we all have that dirtiness in our past 03:56 that we don't want to you know take a bath in 03:59 but there are things we do need to talk about 04:02 because we need to relate 04:03 to our fellow sinners in the world 04:05 who struggle with things that are very real 04:07 and that need to be talked about. 04:10 So that's why we're doing this. 04:12 So again thank you for being here 04:13 and Mike, why don't you just, you know, go back 04:16 and start telling us your story. 04:18 I know that with-- in Wayne's case 04:21 as he looks back he had a very difficult time with his mother 04:25 and understand that with you it was really your father. 04:29 So time is yours just start talking. 04:32 Share. 04:33 Well, when I came back to God I-- I wanted to know 04:36 why this thing had come to me and you know I thought 04:39 that I was born gay from my earliest moments. 04:42 I remember on liking to do what girls like to do. 04:45 I like dressing up in my mom's clothes 04:46 and playing with dolls and I had three sisters. 04:50 So basically when I put that to God 04:52 He started to answer me through different sermons 04:55 that I was hearing and going to camp meeting 04:57 and one of the things that, that I found was 05:01 this thing called defensive detachment. 05:03 And so they talk about how every child 05:05 is born with wet cement. 05:06 You know they're-- 05:07 they have no identity masculine or feminine 05:09 but what happens as a little boy turns to like a year old 05:12 between a year old and three years old 05:14 what happens is the little boy 05:15 starts to identify that he doesn't have 05:18 you know the same parts that mom has 05:19 but he has the same parts that dad has. 05:21 So in a healthy relationship 05:23 the little boy starts wearing baseball caps backwards 05:25 because that's what his dad wears 05:27 or he starts wearing cowboy boots 05:29 because that's what dad does. 05:30 And so he starts to make this connection or transference 05:33 from the mother to the father 05:34 and that helps to harden the cement in the masculine. 05:38 For a boy. Excuse me. 05:40 Right and so the girl it's different, it's different 05:43 but some of the same gender identity 05:47 mix-up happens I think at an early age. 05:50 For me what happened is when my father was around 05:52 he was in the Navy he began-- 05:54 What state, what state were you in? 05:56 Where did you grew up? South Carolina. 05:57 South Carolina. In Virginia. 05:58 And you had a mother 06:00 that was in your home and your father 06:01 but you didn't see him as much? 06:02 Right, dad would be gone sometimes 06:04 three to six months at a time on a cruise 06:06 and so at a time when I needed that 06:08 that example he wasn't available. 06:10 So for me even though the reality was he was, 06:14 you know, providing for his family 06:15 and doing what his job was for me 06:17 I view that as abandonment. 06:19 But then when my dad was home he was as hot headed Italian, 06:22 he was abusive in his discipline 06:23 and so for me I looked at that 06:26 and I thought if that's my gender identity no, thank you 06:29 and the only are option I had was my mother. 06:32 So I had the three sisters 06:34 there was no other male in the home 06:36 to give me an example of what that look like. 06:38 And so there was this deficit but I did know how to fix it 06:42 and so I reverted back to my mother. 06:43 I start playing with dolls and I believe that 06:46 what happened is my cement became affirmed in the famine. 06:49 And so I didn't know how to change it, 06:50 I don't know how to fix it 06:52 and so then when I went to school 06:53 and the kids started to see that 06:55 you know, how the kids got some issues 06:56 and they started to call me sissy, queer, faggot, 07:00 you know all those terms. 07:01 What that did is that pushed away masculinity even further. 07:04 And what age would you say that was? 07:06 From the earliest I can remember. 07:07 I can't even give you an age. 07:08 And was this an Christian school? 07:11 No, not necessarily. 07:12 No, public school. You went to public schools. 07:13 Right, I didn't go-- I didn't become a Christian 07:15 until I was about 14 but I knew who God wise 07:19 and I believe that God was there. 07:21 I even prayed that God would change me. 07:23 I prayed that the next morning I would wake up as a girl 07:25 and I thought well, that would be the problem fixed. 07:28 But he didn't understand 07:29 how this gender identity was something 07:32 that was broken and how to fix it. 07:34 And so for a little kid I was just going 07:35 through the motions, very frustrated, 07:38 unable to relate to not only my gender 07:40 but knew that I was different. 07:42 So you felt like you should have been a girl? 07:44 Absolutely. 07:46 And I'm just curious 07:47 I'm certainly not an expert in this area 07:49 but I know people say well, some say 07:51 it's your genes some say 07:54 it's what's going on with mom and dad 07:56 and then others say well, you know 07:57 maybe it not might be either one of those 07:59 but as you grow older when you get to be, 08:01 you know, teenager you're exposed 08:02 to more of the influence of Hollywood 08:04 and you just, you check it out. 08:06 So there's various opinions about 08:09 why a person has same-sex attractions. 08:12 In your case as you look back 08:14 do you see it as really a father issue 08:18 that that was that contributed to your feelings for a man 08:22 and wishing that you were girl is that? 08:25 It became so clear to me, actually in my 40s 08:28 after I had come back to the Lord 08:30 and was walking in church culture 08:33 it was all of a sudden that I started to realize that 08:36 that from my earliest thoughts 08:37 I remember now not necessarily being gay, 08:41 not having an attraction to same-sex 08:43 but I-- the feeling that I wanted to be a girl 08:46 that I thought that I should have been a girl 08:48 and if I to had a sex change at an early age 08:51 what they are doing now 14, 15-year-old 08:53 boys are having sex changes into a girl 08:55 and vice versa if that would happen for me 08:58 because what happened is when I came out 08:59 into the gay culture at 19 years old and 20 09:03 all of a sudden all of that gender dysphoria left me. 09:06 I realized that masculinity was more valuable in gay culture 09:11 then they're not and so if I had a sex change 09:13 I can't even imagine how much more complicated 09:15 that would have been for me 09:16 but I do realize that there was this change 09:20 and I didn't know how it came 09:22 but as I ask God to show and to reveal that to me 09:24 I realized that that this was something 09:28 that happened before I was even conscious 09:30 and I wasn't in charge. 09:31 And that was incredible insight that that-- 09:35 Did you-- as you were growing up 09:37 were you reading the Bible or did you go to church, 09:39 did you hear scripture? 09:41 You said that you were praying 09:43 and asking God to change you into girl 09:47 and you thought if He would just do that 09:48 then all my problems will be solved. 09:50 Where did you learn about praying? 09:52 I mean, I look at back in my life 09:54 growing up in the Hollywood Hills 09:55 and I really, I pretty much connected with my mom 09:58 and then definitely connected with my dad 10:00 and when I became a teenager 10:01 I was definitely attracted to girls 10:04 but I was having a hard time controlling that. 10:07 As I got into my teenage years 10:08 because we didn't have the Bible, 10:09 we didn't pray, we didn't, we didn't talk about Jesus 10:11 and also I was pretty much on my own 10:13 to deal with all these emotions and these feelings and desires 10:16 that pretty much got the better of me 10:18 until I was 20. 10:19 Then I read the Bible 10:20 and that's when everything changed. 10:22 So I'm interested to know well, how did the Bible get in, 10:25 I didn't even know how to pray. 10:26 I wouldn't have known to pray when I was 12-years-old. 10:29 Well, I was raised as a Catholic as a young person 10:32 and I went to catechism every weekend 10:35 I really didn't join the Protestant church 10:37 until about 15. 10:39 My father had an affair with a backslidden Christians 10:43 and they got together 10:44 and that's kind of how we got into-- 10:46 how the Protestant message got into our family. 10:49 But I did know God at an early age 10:51 and I saw Him as punitive, arbitrary 10:55 just kind of like I saw my dad. 10:57 Dad wasn't really available to me 10:59 and so the only way that I could relate to a God 11:01 who called himself father was I guess 11:03 He had the same attributes as the father that I had. 11:06 So even though I prayed that he would change my gender 11:11 I still saw him as arbitrary, judgmental the same things 11:14 that I had rejected from my father. 11:16 I saw God that way. 11:18 I always knew the God existed and I believed in Him 11:21 but I basically thought that He didn't care much for me. 11:24 He wasn't very appealing. 11:26 Yes, and He wasn't unavailable to me. 11:28 He is just an authority out there 11:30 that you better do the right thing or else there is no, 11:32 there was no compassion in His heart for you. 11:34 You didn't feel that. No. 11:36 You know, well, another question, 11:39 personally I wish that in this series 11:42 you know we interviewed Wayne 11:43 we are interviewing you, we have Pastor Ron Woolsey 11:46 who'll be coming next sharing his story. 11:49 I wish that we had a lady that it just didn't work out 11:52 but to have her, share her story 11:54 because homosexuality, lesbianism 11:57 I know that women are complicated 11:58 but do you think that 11:59 there's some of the same issues going on with women 12:02 who as they're growing up eventually 12:04 they choose or feel attraction to another woman 12:09 and with men with men you know, 12:10 I would like to just ask you a question. 12:12 Right, I can't really speak specifically 12:15 but I have other friends 12:16 that have come out of the lesbian lifestyle. 12:18 And one story that that impresses me 12:20 in particular is this girl was raised 12:24 not receiving the love from her father 12:26 but the father lavished 12:27 a lot of attention on her older brother 12:30 and so she thought that if she was a better boy 12:33 that her father would love her more. 12:35 And so that started to do this 12:36 gender dysphoria for her as well. 12:38 She started to become, you know, more boy like 12:41 and wearing boys clothes 12:43 and had the same gender dysphoria 12:44 that I had experienced. 12:45 And so you each one of us 12:47 has incredibly different scenarios 12:50 or you know experiences that shaped us 12:52 and yet some other things are very similar as well. 12:56 You know, I also understand that there was a moment 12:59 or an event of major trauma for you 13:02 that contributed to your eventual plunge 13:08 or choice diving in to a gay lifestyle 13:12 and just elaborate on that a little bit 13:14 this traumatic event that you-- 13:15 Okay. Told me that you had. 13:17 Yeah, will the traumatic event was actually 13:20 when I was a junior in high school in a boarding school 13:23 and the roommate that I got-- 13:26 I didn't know anyone at the school 13:27 and so the roommate I got was 13:28 experienced in juvenile detention 13:30 and he was there basically court-ordered 13:33 and he recognized things in me 13:35 I'm sure and you know one night 13:37 the wrestling turned into something more 13:39 and I had my first homosexual experience 13:42 there in this Christian boarding school 13:44 and remember what was so traumatic for me 13:46 Steve, was that when I went to bed that night 13:48 I realize that indeed I was the one thing 13:50 that everyone that accused me of being 13:52 that I gone to bed that night 13:53 and it referring to me that I indeed was gay 13:57 and that God couldn't help me or He didn't help me. 14:00 I remember going to bed and thinking 14:03 that it actually satisfied something in me. 14:05 It actually-- I think what was 14:07 so shocking was that it affirmed to me 14:09 that I indeed was attracted to this. 14:13 And so I remember you know 14:15 going into the next Bible conference 14:18 that they had at the school, 14:19 I gave my heart to the Lord I got a girlfriend, 14:21 I started to do all the right things, 14:22 my roommate got kicked out. 14:24 But even at 17 14:25 I prayed that the Lord would take my life. 14:27 I said, I don't want to live like this 14:29 and I asked Him take my life right, 14:31 if that was as close as we were gonna get. 14:32 So it was a conflict and you recognize 14:34 that you part of you liked it 14:37 but another part of you said I don't want this. 14:38 Right, right. 14:40 Lord, take it out of me 14:41 and you still had desires to follow Jesus. 14:44 Right, but I was still addicted to, 14:47 to masturbation and fantasy 14:49 and that had happened at 13 years of age. 14:52 And so because it not only was that same-sex attracted 14:55 but I believed that I wasn't, 14:58 I believe that that actually was something 15:01 that was keeping God from being able to help me even more 15:03 because the process wasn't about becoming straight 15:06 I was praying for the wrong thing. 15:08 What I wanted, what I needed 15:10 I believe was that I needed to understand 15:12 and to be affirmed by masculinity. 15:15 I needed to know what masculine affirmation was 15:18 and gender identity was that wasn't sexualized. 15:21 And so by the time I was 20-years-old 15:23 I went out into the gay lifestyle, 15:25 I was so desperate to have this affirmation this, 15:31 this intimacy with the man whether it was sexualize or not 15:34 I was definitely seeking it. 15:36 And Proverbs 27:7 it talks about to somebody 15:38 that just had a full meal that you don't need dessert 15:41 but to somebody who's starving 15:43 even something bitter will taste sweet 15:44 and so that was the driving force for me. 15:46 I had this demand to be filled by masculine love 15:49 because I didn't know how to get it in a legitimate way 15:52 I ended up going into the gay bars 15:54 and my first experience with the first boyfriend 15:57 that I had was actually that I was raped 16:00 and I didn't even realize that into my 40s 16:02 after coming out of all this realizing 16:04 that I was so desperate for any time 16:06 or attention that this person gave me 16:08 that I actually was willing to be submitted 16:10 to this rape several times 16:14 and I didn't even realize the connection 16:15 until after coming out of it 16:17 that regardless of this drive that had within me it still, 16:23 it still turned out to be this rape. 16:25 So how many years would you say you openly lived that life. 16:29 Twenty years. Twenty years. 16:30 And as we got near the end to the 20 years 16:34 what happened to end those 20 years 16:36 and begin a new period in your life? 16:38 Right, I was hoping to have a monogamous relationship. 16:41 I thought that that if I could have 16:42 a monogamous relationship 16:43 that God would bless it and that that would be the best 16:46 that I could do because-- 16:47 With a man or a woman? Yes, with a man. 16:49 Okay, you wanted a monogamous relationship with a man. 16:52 And so the first relationship that I was in it was a guy 16:55 that was about nine years older than me 16:56 and he introduced me to all kinds of sexual behaviors 17:01 and eventually within-- I'd say within two years 17:04 I become a sexual addict. 17:05 Acting out sexually in the five relationships 17:08 that I was in, in the 20 years I was never faithful 17:11 and what was this driving force 17:14 all I really wanted to be was affirm by a man 17:17 but what happen is it got twisted somehow 17:20 and the enemy was able to use that 17:22 and to create this addiction that 17:25 that I was never able to brake, 17:26 never able to be monogamous 17:28 in of the relationship I was in-- 17:30 So what changed what, what change that? 17:32 Well, a lot. So anyway-- 17:34 One short version. Right, right, right. 17:36 So anyway the night before I got baptized 17:38 I made my stand for the Lord. 17:40 Now how you decide to get that done? 17:41 Oh, it's a long time. 17:43 My sister had got remarried to her ex-husband. 17:46 I saw the Holy Spirit in him I came back to Florida, 17:49 my other sister invited me to an evangelistic series 17:52 and I didn't realize about my sisters had been praying 17:55 and to anyone who-- who is praying 17:58 for their loved ones or whatever 17:59 I just want to really encourage them 18:00 that intercessory prayer it works 18:02 because it pulled me out. 18:04 So anyway I was in a relationship 18:05 with this millionaire good-looking guy 18:09 that had big blue eyes and a convertible Mercedes 18:11 and I mean, I was at the top of my game 18:13 and what happened is 18:15 my sister invited me to an evangelistic series 18:17 and I don't know why but I went. 18:19 And so on the last night of the evangelistic series 18:21 I made a stand to be baptized 18:24 and my sister asked me outside in the parking lot 18:26 what I was going to do about my boyfriend. 18:28 Man, I looked to her and I said I'm gay. 18:29 I was born this way, I tried to change, 18:31 I asked God to change me that never happened. 18:33 I said, all I know is that Jesus loves me for who I am. 18:37 I said and that's why I'm getting baptized. 18:39 And my sister stop and the next day 18:41 I was baptized with the sexual addiction 18:43 and a boyfriend 18:45 but I began this journey with Jesus Christ 18:47 and even in my ignorance and even in everything 18:50 that happened to me 18:52 it's like the Lord was very slowly revealing to me 18:55 the different things that had defiled me, 18:57 the different ways 18:58 that the enemy had put knots in my ropes 19:01 and very slowly the Lord was able to unravel those knots 19:04 and it took, it took time. 19:06 There was no, you know, bing, magic wand over my head 19:09 and I was straight and ready the date, mate 19:11 and all that kind of stuff so process. 19:13 It wasn't an instant cure? 19:15 No and you know Steve, I really struggle 19:16 because I thought that I was doing 19:19 something wrong again thinking 19:21 that I had to be perfect with that, I had to be good. 19:24 I didn't recognize there was Christ goodness in me 19:27 that gave me victory and that took a long time. 19:30 Yeah, I've read recently that the Christian life is not, 19:33 it's not an elevator where you get in 19:35 and you go to the top floor. 19:37 It's a stair, stairway. So you go step-by-step. 19:40 God takes you where you are and even though 19:42 we're all messed up in lots of ways all of us 19:45 God works with us step-by-step 19:47 and He changes as maybe not as fast 19:50 as we would like to be changed 19:51 but if we stick with it and keep trusting Him 19:54 and keep following the Bible and choosing that we want 19:57 Jesus more than some of our own desires 20:01 which may not be right. 20:02 Right so Steve, where was that information? 20:05 I could have used that because I thought 20:06 that I needed to get baptized again 20:08 or maybe I needed to get anointed again 20:10 because I was looking for this instant change. 20:12 I didn't realize that this was a process 20:15 because God knew that it was going to take time 20:17 to change my understanding about Him and about the Father 20:20 and so He couldn't give it to me all at once 20:22 because I couldn't handle that. 20:24 So He gave it to me as I could handle it. 20:25 Step-by-step. 20:26 That's right, and it was always my decision. 20:29 You know, a lot of people, you know, in other ministries 20:32 or whatever look at my colleagues 20:34 and I and they say that we're still gay. 20:36 And you know that's not the case 20:37 because this has always been my decision 20:39 God never forced me to choose. 20:41 You know what it be easier to just stay 20:43 at the way that I was but what was so incredible 20:46 as I walked with God He only gave me 20:48 what I could handle and at my decision 20:51 it was always my choice to continue or to not 20:54 and what's incredible 20:55 Jesus always respected my right to choose. 20:58 And so today, now you went 20 years 21:02 you grew up and went 20 years 21:04 and then it's been how long since you came out? 21:07 Thirteen. Thirteen years? 21:09 So and now today God has continued to change you, 21:13 He is doing wonderful things in your life 21:15 and you are now part of Coming Out Ministries. 21:17 Just tell us in a nutshell what is Coming Out Ministries, 21:21 you know, from your perspective, 21:22 your heart, what's your burden, 21:23 what's your message, what are you doing now? 21:26 And give us just a quick recap. 21:30 So when we started this ministry 21:33 and the Lord started moving me 21:35 just by invitations to come and speak just about 21:37 my history of coming out of the homosexual lifestyle 21:40 what I realize now is that homosexuality is no different 21:44 according to the Bible then than any other sexual sin. 21:47 And what we've done in Christian societies 21:49 we taken homosexuality out 21:51 and we've made it this entity of its own. 21:54 But basically from what I understand in the Bible 21:56 and the responses that I get when I speak 21:58 is that homosexuality is no different 22:00 and it ends up back in the lump with all the other sexual sin 22:04 and that God has to have the answer for that. 22:06 Because my struggle was not only 22:08 for just homosexual feelings and identity 22:11 but it was also over sexual sin the pornography 22:14 and the addiction the sexual addiction. 22:17 Whenever I speak I speak to pastors, 22:19 I speak to young men, young women, 22:21 older men, older women, 22:23 singles ministries, men's ministries, 22:25 academies and universities 22:26 and what I find is the same issue 22:28 that I had is the same issue 22:30 that many young men and women of any age have 22:33 is the struggle with sexual sin and what a find 22:36 is that the answer is still the same. 22:38 And so it isn't specific to one area or another, 22:42 what I find is that 22:43 this ministry really speaks to all of us. 22:45 You know, are you really different today 22:50 than what you were 30 years ago? 22:53 Absolutely. 22:54 You are not the same man? No, no. 22:56 You are genuinely changed. Right, right. 22:58 Now you are probably not done, 22:59 you know, I heard somebody once say that 23:01 God doesn't take a side to the oven half-baked. 23:04 He has a lot of work to do with us 23:05 and He is working with me and He is working with you 23:07 but you know in your own mind and in your heart 23:11 that you made a lot of progress. 23:13 Steve, the hardest thing has been this, 23:16 this constant surrender. 23:18 I have to surrender myself every day. 23:20 I don't have the luxury of surrendering myself 23:22 once in the morning 23:23 and being good for the rest the day. 23:25 I have to surrender myself constantly 23:27 throughout the day to my thoughts, my feelings 23:30 and Philippians 2:5 is for me. 23:33 You can hang most of my home ministry on that verse alone. 23:36 With does it say? 23:37 It says "Let this mind be in you, 23:40 which was in Christ Jesus." 23:41 And to me that's invitational. 23:43 It's saying give me permission to let my mind inside Your mind 23:47 and so whether that has to do with thoughts of masturbation 23:51 or pornography or even same-sex attraction. 23:54 What happens is if I give God permission 23:56 and that's what I've been practicing is I will say 23:58 Lord, I'm giving You permission to take these thoughts 24:01 because if You don't take these thoughts 24:03 I know that they're gonna take me to place 24:05 that You say I shouldn't go. 24:06 And so when I give Him permission-- 24:08 one time that had happened 24:10 I was stepping into the shower and the thought to, 24:12 you know, to indulge in sin came 24:14 and just then the Holy Spirit spoken said, 24:16 why don't you claim that promise? 24:17 And I said, I'm giving You permission 24:19 Lord, to take these thoughts because if You don't 24:21 I'm gonna indulgence in sin, right. 24:23 And what was on incredible is my next thought 24:25 was about baseball and I hate baseball. 24:28 What was so incredible 24:29 is that God took me immediately where I was, 24:32 He gave me victory immediately. 24:34 I didn't have to step out of the shower 24:36 and fast for five days and look up, 24:38 you know, scriptures for an hour 24:40 to get the relief that I was seeking. 24:42 He was an immediate God on to Him 24:44 who is able to keep you from falling right. 24:46 The present help in time of trouble. 24:48 So Mike, are you happier now today than you were 24:53 when you lived an openly gay lifestyle. 24:56 Well, it almost seems it doesn't seem 25:00 even genuine to just say, yes. 25:01 Its Steve, infinitely better 25:04 is my life now than it's ever been before 25:06 and even though I'm under incredible scrutiny 25:09 and criticism I can still tell you that 25:12 I would rather be in the arms of Jesus now 25:14 than the arms of the gay lifestyle. 25:17 Well, when Wayne was here 25:18 and we were discussing his story 25:19 I could hear you in the background 25:21 before we were on that camera with Wayne 25:24 I could hear you singing and humming your, 25:26 you know, Christian songs like 25:27 my little boy he his nine-years-old 25:29 and I heard him just singing about 25:31 Jesus around the house the other day 25:32 and through it my heart like 25:33 I heard the same thing from you. 25:35 So it just shows me that you are genuinely 25:38 happy with your life and happy to be here, 25:41 happy to share story 25:43 and that this is very real to you 25:45 and that God is real to you and is that you know, 25:47 if you put it in nutshell your message now 25:49 is you're out there in colleges, 25:51 universities, academies, 25:53 young people, older people, 25:55 with pastors sharing your story. 25:57 What in a nutshell would you say your message is? 26:01 The message really is about getting to know God. 26:04 It's invitational. 26:06 He is wanting us to know Him on such an intimate level 26:08 and you know what, when I started to see Him 26:11 on an intimate level then it started to give me 26:14 the desire to want to let go the things that define myself. 26:18 And as I saw Him more and more what happened is 26:22 things started to fall off no matter where I went 26:24 and I started to see the victorious life 26:26 that I could have been Him and I thought 26:28 that it came at a huge sacrifice 26:29 to give up the things that I love 26:31 but really when I started to let those go the things 26:34 that I received Steve, they were more powerful 26:36 and better and stronger than I had ever experienced before. 26:39 So God is not just a the father figure 26:42 you used to think of Him as being 26:43 but now he is God of love who has changed your life. 26:46 Well we're winding down here with program two, 26:49 we got another testimonial. 26:51 Pastor Ron Woolsey will be next. 26:54 I can't help but go back to this verse 26:56 so I want to go back to the verse in 1 Peter 2:9 26:59 that talks about God who has called you, 27:02 He's called you out of darkness and into His marvelous light. 27:08 I got Mike story. 27:09 Mike has his story, Wayne has his story, 27:12 Pastor Ron has his story. 27:13 There are many others stories that we can share that we know 27:17 and other people can share about how God is good 27:21 and that His light is marbles. 27:24 He can change our lives, He can heal us, 27:26 He can forgive us and give us 27:28 peace and power to live for Him. 27:31 So don't go away 27:32 we've got another program part three of Coming Out. 27:35 So join us again. 27:38 If you'd like to order the 13-part 27:40 Coming Out stories for $34.95 plus shipping 27:43 call 1-800-782-4253 27:46 or write to White Horse Media, 27:48 PO Box 1139, New Port, Washington 99156. 27:52 Pastor Ron Woolsey, Wayne Blakely 27:54 and Mike Carducci are each available 27:56 to conduct a seminar in your area. 27:58 To schedule a speaking engagement 27:59 contact Coming Out Ministries by calling 360-936-8514 28:05 or visit comingoutministries.org. |
Revised 2015-01-15