Participants: Steve Wohlberg (Host), Wayne Blakely, Mike Carducci
Series Code: COT
Program Code: COT000006
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00:08 Homophobia sounds like a terrible disease.
00:12 What it's all about? 00:13 You'll find out by watching Coming Out. 01:02 Welcome back to part six of Coming Out. 01:05 This is a special series dealing with 01:07 a very big subject, a controversial subject, 01:09 a hot subject, an emotional subject. 01:11 We're dealing with gay issues, lesbian issues, 01:14 homosexuality, the Bible, and the love of Jesus Christ. 01:18 And I'm here again with 01:21 Wayne Blakely and Mike Carducci, 01:23 who are co-founders of the Coming Out ministry 01:26 that is really attempting, with all your hearts and souls, 01:31 to bring clarity to these issues, 01:34 to deal with them effectively, 01:35 and to try to help people 01:37 who are struggling with the issues 01:39 that you have struggled with in your own lives. 01:41 So again I want to thank you for being part of this. 01:46 It's a blessing to a lot of people 01:49 to have you here. 01:50 Thank you, Steve. 01:51 I want to start out by reading from Webster's dictionary. 01:57 It's a big dip, big book, here big dictionary. 01:59 And under the word "homophobia", 02:02 this is what it says, 02:04 "Homophobia is an irrational fear 02:08 of homosexuality or of homosexuals." 02:13 So that's our topic today, is homophobia. 02:16 Is homophobia, is it real, is it a myth? 02:21 Is it something that ever happens? 02:23 Let's just start with the church. 02:25 Does it ever happen in the church of Jesus Christ? 02:29 Talk to me, talk to us. 02:31 Yeah, absolutely, I have to say that it is. 02:36 When I met Jesus Christ as my savior, 02:40 convicting me that my life wasn't, 02:43 I wasn't living it according to His plan. 02:46 I thought the church by now 02:47 probably has a reach out to gays and homosexuals 02:50 and unfortunately what I found 02:53 when I came back in was this irrational fear 02:56 and so I was in met with a great deal of adversity. 03:01 I'm still in met with the adversity today 03:03 in going and speaking into church congregations, 03:05 or to get the invitation or for-- 03:08 while it's been discussed over a church board, 03:11 and there is this fear. 03:13 This fear that's there and it's multi-faceted, 03:15 which I'm sure we'll find out as we talk about it here. 03:18 I was very uncomfortable, it's not right, 03:22 but we have some responsibility in the process. 03:25 Okay, Mike. 03:27 Well you know, at 20 years old when I left the church. 03:29 I couldn't find any resources or anyone 03:32 that I even felt comfortable 03:33 to share this deep dark secret with. 03:35 And then at 40 years old 03:36 coming back into church culture. 03:38 I still came back, the Lord was leading me 03:40 and even five years after, 03:43 I was walking back in church culture, 03:45 I was at a board meeting 03:47 and I was asked to pitch the idea for men's ministry, 03:50 and one of the highly esteem doctors 03:51 that were on the board 03:52 in front of the pastor and the head elder. 03:55 This man looked at me and said, 03:56 I don't want to be running 03:57 around in the woods like a bunch of gay men. 03:59 And so I realized 04:01 that there still is homophobia in our church. 04:03 Even after I professed that I don't even walk 04:06 in that culture anymore. 04:08 So definitely homophobia in the church is very real. 04:10 And you think that they are, I'm imagine-- 04:12 I'm sure you would agree 04:13 that there are others out there, 04:15 who have probably had similar experiences. 04:17 Oh, yeah. Oh, absolutely. 04:18 One example that I recently had a couple of months ago 04:20 at a presentation that we made. 04:23 This man from the islands, 04:24 the Caribbean came up and he said, 04:26 you know, in his Caribbean accent he said, 04:28 you know, down in where we come from, 04:31 you know homosexuals are beat up 04:34 and they are kicked out of the church, 04:35 or whatever he said, I realized 04:37 that I had the wrong attitude about this 04:39 and you know what was amazing 04:40 is this guy was apologizing to me for the way 04:43 that he had treated other people 04:44 that were in the gay life. 04:46 What do you think is the cause 04:48 of that kind of attitude that you know-- 04:52 I think with out a doubt it's ignorance, 04:54 you know, in the denomination that I'm a part of, 04:59 we haven't talked about this for basically a 150 years. 05:02 And so what happens 05:03 when you leave something in the dark, 05:05 you know, it grows like a bacteria 05:08 and not only does it effect the individual 05:10 who is afflicted and having the same sex attraction 05:13 but by not talking about it 05:14 it's hardening the hearts of those 05:16 who should be reaching out with the love of Jesus Christ. 05:20 Let's look at the Bible. 05:21 Let's look at Luke 15, 05:23 as I've been thinking about this topic, 05:27 and looking at my Bible and praying God 05:29 what verse do you want us to zero in on to just 05:33 shed some light on this subject homophobia. 05:37 My mind just went to Luke 15. Luke 15:1 and 2. 05:43 The Bible says, "Then drew near to Him." 05:46 Referring to Christ Jesus as the Him. 05:49 They came to Him, all the publicans 05:52 and those who were tax collectors really, 05:54 many of them were Jews, who work for the Romans 05:56 and who were despised by the Jews, 05:58 by many Jews, not all Jews. 06:00 "The publicans and the sinners, they came to hear him." 06:05 Meaning Jesus. 06:06 "And then verse two says 06:07 that the Pharisees, and scribes, 06:09 when they saw this they murmured 06:12 and they said, this man is welcoming sinners." 06:16 Another translation says, 06:18 "This man is receiving sinners and He's eating with them." 06:21 Amen. 06:22 So here are these religious people, 06:24 the Pharisees, the scribes, 06:25 you know, they had the scripture 06:27 and they saw Jesus and they saw 06:30 the worst sort of people, all kinds of people. 06:32 The sinners, open sinners, 06:34 prostitutes, all kinds of people 06:37 and yet they were responding, and they were coming to Jesus 06:41 and Pharisees looked at that and they just said, 06:43 yuck, you know, 06:44 how can this Man be the Messiah. 06:46 He's welcoming the sinners and He's eating with them. 06:49 Right. 06:50 You know I remember our colleague, 06:52 Ron Woolsey, talked about 06:54 when he was getting counsel from a Christian counselor 06:58 basically told his wife at that time 07:00 that you should just leave him 07:01 because that type can't even changed. 07:03 So homophobia has definitely not only been in our church 07:06 but there hasn't even been any redemption available 07:10 to those that struggle with it 07:11 or who are willing to even come forward 07:13 that they struggle with it. 07:15 Now you know, as I look at this, 07:16 I mean Jesus wasn't doing the things 07:20 that the people that were coming to him were doing, 07:24 but He love them and they felt that, 07:28 and that's why it says that they drew near to Him, 07:31 they felt even though He was pure and He was clean, 07:35 He lived a Holy life, a pure life, yet He was humble 07:39 and He was loving and He drew them to Him. 07:43 And when they were coming, you know, 07:45 with praise God, they were coming 07:48 then the religious leaders looked at that 07:50 and they just said, how can He do that? 07:53 You know, how can He be that way? 07:55 That's right. He's welcoming these sinners. 07:58 And don't you think that attitude is sometimes, 08:01 may be too many times 08:03 a problem even inside His church. 08:07 Yes, yeah. 08:09 You know, when we left the program just before this, 08:11 we were talking about how love is, 08:14 does love mean approval? 08:16 And in Jesus ministry He didn't approve of the sin 08:20 and He didn't condone their sin. 08:23 But by loving them, with His pure love 08:26 He was trying to draw them, 08:27 He sought to draw them out of their sin. 08:29 That's right, and doesn't it make sense 08:31 that the church of Jesus Christ should reflect His attitude. 08:36 Absolutely. Amen. 08:37 I mean isn't that with the church is all about. 08:39 Somebody once said, the biggest room in the world 08:41 is the room for improvement. 08:43 I like that, that stuck with me for a long time. 08:46 And it sure seems to me that even in the church, 08:49 maybe especially in the church, 08:50 there is a lot of room for improvement, 08:53 and I understand that your ministry 08:55 Coming Out ministries, 08:57 you at some point in the past came out of the closet 09:00 and went into a gay lifestyle. 09:02 But then you came out of that lifestyle 09:04 and now you are, you're Christians, 09:06 you're in the church and you're trying to help church members-- 09:11 Yeah. 09:12 To hopefully not repeat the some of the same mistakes 09:15 that were repeated against you, 09:16 and you're trying to help Christians 09:19 to become more like Jesus in the way they relate 09:23 to those who are in the gay community. 09:24 Right. Am I right in saying that? 09:26 Right. Yeah. 09:27 Yeah. 09:28 There were you know, my first contact with sex came 09:32 from two young Christian men when I was around 13 years old, 09:38 and that introduced to me to sex, 09:40 it actually made me begin to think 09:42 that there wasn't anything wrong with me 09:43 because we were engaged together in this, 09:46 and then they went on and they married, 09:49 and they began to do what was, what was approved of by, 09:55 you know, by the church, by God, 09:57 and I think that even today that our problem, 10:00 part of our problems within the church 10:02 that there are some past associations 10:04 that people have come in contact 10:06 with various things. 10:07 Often men in their adolescence are experimentation and stuff, 10:11 but they don't want to come around the person 10:13 who is seeking Jesus for fear of the association 10:17 and what that will make them look like, 10:19 that may be they haven't even dealt with their own sin, 10:21 and so largely what our ministry is today 10:25 is to come to church members 10:27 and to people that weren't reaching out to 10:29 and saying that we are all level 10:31 at the foot of the cross. 10:32 Can I just add? Sure. 10:33 Remember, Wayne, the story where 10:35 this well intentioned elder in your church came up 10:38 after you gave your story and said, 10:40 you know, that's a powerful testimony 10:42 but don't you think you should keep it to yourself? 10:44 Yeah. 10:45 And so again it was his fear of the story 10:49 or the dynamics of it being, 10:51 you know, grounded in this homosexual sin 10:53 but you know, the church-- 10:54 We don't talk about it. 10:55 That's right, we don't talk about it, 10:56 we cover it up, that's just how we do and apathy, 11:00 I think has been just as damaging in Christianity 11:04 as much as it has been hate or homophobia. 11:06 So sometimes the church really has, has erred. 11:10 Yes. Christians have erred-- 11:11 That's true, they think that-- 11:12 I think that, you know, humbling ourselves 11:15 can only be a good thing, that we really, you know, 11:18 if we have made mistakes, that we are sorry 11:21 and that we want to do better-- 11:22 Right. 11:23 In our attempt to reach out, 11:24 we may not be doing those tings but we still you know, 11:27 people are people and we need to reach, 11:29 reach out to them as Jesus did in the Bible. 11:31 Right, there was a study done 11:33 and they went to secular society 11:35 and they asked them they said, 11:36 who do you think Jesus Christ was? 11:38 And they said wonderful things 11:39 you know, He's fair, loving, honest, pure, holy, 11:43 right all these wonderful accolades and adjectives 11:46 and then they said, okay well now tell me, 11:47 what you think of when I say Christian? 11:50 And then they started saying, 11:51 judgmental, angry, unfair, mean, 11:56 you know all these other things 11:57 that Christianity has that label of because you know, 12:00 we've been so inclusive in Christianity to, 12:03 you know, to block out anything 12:05 that may be offensive or uncomfortable 12:07 to the point where what we've given our society 12:09 is this, is this picture 12:11 that the Christians aren't like Jesus. 12:14 Yeah, and sometimes, not all the times, 12:17 but sometimes those accusations they do have merit, 12:21 now I want to shift gears. 12:23 Okay. 12:24 The word homophobic or homophobia 12:27 is also often used a lot, 12:31 more than often, by the gay community, 12:35 and that is a charge that is leveled at Christians 12:37 and I'm sure that sometimes, 12:38 like we've said, sometimes it's valid. 12:40 Yes. Is it always valid? 12:42 No. Is it always valid? 12:43 No. No. 12:45 From that perspective is there room 12:47 for improvement on the other side as well? 12:50 Yeah, you know there are been a lot of things, 12:53 there's constantly things in the news today 12:55 that are sure, you know, 12:56 some one will take a stand with regards to homosexuality 13:00 and it's not because they hate homosexuals 13:03 but it's because of their personal beliefs 13:05 that they are being threatened, religious believes. 13:09 We look at equality through gay rights 13:12 but then the very things sometimes that gay, 13:16 the gay culture is accusing the church of, 13:19 is happening from the gay culture 13:21 towards the Christian, 13:23 and so religious rights today are be coming in question. 13:26 I think that it's very important, 13:28 you mentioned something earlier about humility 13:31 and I think that we need, on both sides here, 13:35 the people within the church, the members of churches today 13:41 that are looking at God's word 13:42 to be reaching now with God's love, 13:45 and that love to an individual, 13:48 to a gay person doesn't have to mean approval 13:51 of what they do, what they're all about. 13:55 Since it's not in agreement with God's word, 13:57 it still says that I can love you 13:59 without approving of what you're, 14:02 what's your lifestyle is. 14:04 So if a person doesn't have 14:06 an irrational fear of a homosexual, 14:10 and if he believes in the Bible and if he points to the Bible, 14:13 and if he shows what the Bible says 14:16 in a loving way, in a redemptive way-- 14:19 I'm so glad you included that, Steve, because it's true. 14:21 You know, in a loving way, in a redemptive way. 14:23 That's right, without the bat. 14:24 Yeah, without the bat and the club 14:26 and the hammer, and the stick. 14:28 Then that person can often be accused falsely. 14:33 Yes. 14:34 Of being a homophobic, 14:35 because it seems like that word is just you know, 14:37 thrown around I mean the word phobia 14:39 really is an irrational fear as the dictionary said. 14:41 It's right. 14:42 As someone is phobic concerning spiders, 14:44 it's an irrational fear of spiders or enclosed places 14:48 or you know if I have an irrational fear, 14:50 lets say about tomatoes or who knows, 14:52 you know walk under a ladder, being in the dark. 14:55 You know not everybody who believes the Bible 14:57 and who is taking a stand on these issues 15:02 as even if they do it in a really good way, 15:04 you know, they're not, 15:05 that word doesn't, it's an unjust accusation, 15:09 it's an untrue accusation to categorize 15:13 all Bible believing Christians as homophobic. 15:18 Right. Do you agree with that? 15:19 The word itself is not being used correctly. 15:22 Right. In every incidence. 15:23 But I think what's largely needed today 15:26 is the education in the church. 15:29 Yes, definitely. 15:30 Now here's a question that I, 15:31 as I've been contemplating this. 15:33 Here's a big question. 15:36 What do true Christians, and the gay community, 15:41 and Jesus Christ have in common? 15:46 Do Christians, true Christians, and the gay community, 15:50 and or at least a large percentage 15:52 of gay community or a percentage, 15:54 you know only God knows what percentage is, 15:57 and Jesus, Jesus Himself, 15:59 what do they all have in common? 16:01 One major thing and we discussed this so-- 16:04 We've all been persecuted. We can-- 16:05 Right, right. He forgets to say it. 16:06 You can spill the beans. Yeah, yeah. 16:08 You can answer the question. 16:09 Well, there's even more levels to that, 16:12 you know, because if we don't believe that, 16:14 if God Himself established you know, 16:17 the fact that homosexuality is a sin 16:19 as well as all sexual sin 16:22 then He has to be the one to show us, 16:25 how to overcome right? 16:26 And so for anyone that continues in saying 16:30 that Jesus loves them for who they are, 16:32 if that goes against the word which we believe, 16:34 we've already established, you know, 16:35 is God's, you know-- Owners manual. 16:38 Manual, that's right for us, 16:39 then what would basically saying 16:40 is that Jesus is impotent, that He is powerless 16:43 and that also is an insult to Jesus Christ 16:46 and so we have, we've all been abused 16:49 and we've all been taken out of context 16:51 and we've all been mistreated and misunderstood. 16:55 That's right, I mean Christians, true Christians, 16:58 if you look back at Bible history, 17:00 the disciples were all brutally murdered 17:04 except for John, who they tried to kill 17:06 and eventually banished him to the island of the Patmos. 17:08 That was pretty-- 17:09 And that's why we got the book of revelation. 17:10 Yeah, they tried to kill him but they couldn't, they didn't. 17:11 Right. 17:13 And early Christian history, the true Christians 17:17 were brutally persecuted by the Roman Empire. 17:20 Go down in the dark ages, 17:22 Christians were continued to be persecuted even by the church. 17:26 What claimed to be the church, 17:27 the inquisition and they were murdering 17:29 true Christians, down through that history, 17:32 you know the history of China, Russia, 17:35 today in Muslim countries many Bible believing Christians 17:39 have been cruelly you know brutally put to death 17:43 and so that's all, that's real and it's wrong 17:47 and what they have in common, as I mentioned, 17:49 you know, what they all have in common, 17:51 sad to say that those who have chosen a gay lifestyle, 17:55 whether we agree with it or not, 17:58 they don't deserve some of the things 18:00 that would have come their way. 18:01 A lot of the things that have come their way, 18:03 I mean people are, 18:04 Jesus wouldn't call them fags. 18:06 No. 18:07 He wouldn't hate them, there is such a thing, 18:10 there is real and then there is perceived hate speech, 18:14 but there is real hate speech and there are real hate crimes. 18:17 Yeah you can't lump it all in. 18:18 That's right, and those that are in the gay community 18:21 have been brutalized, many of them. 18:24 Yes, yes. 18:25 Unfairly, as Christians have been persecuted 18:28 unfairly and ultimately 18:30 that's the common bond with Jesus Christ 18:33 because Jesus Himself was, was brutalized, 18:37 He was beaten, He was whipped, He was rejected, 18:40 He was lifted up on a cross and He Himself, 18:43 He is the only one among us that can claim this. 18:46 That's right. But He was an innocent man. 18:47 Amen. 18:48 Entirely from birth to grave, 18:50 He was innocent and yet you know He suffered, 18:53 He suffered and I think that we, 18:55 you know, we all need to have our eyes opened 18:58 to the fact that cruelty and injustice is wrong 19:02 wherever it pops up its ugly head 19:07 and who's behind all of the cruelty 19:11 and inhumanity to man all through out history, 19:15 who could we put the-- 19:16 I know. A finger on? 19:19 I'm not going to say it. Tell us. 19:20 Yeah I know, no, no, 19:21 I'm not going to tell, I'm not going to say-- 19:22 I want to know. Okay, you tell us. 19:23 I'm not going to say his name. I have a good idea. 19:27 What? I believe it's Satan. 19:30 Yes Satan himself. That's right. 19:32 That's right, it's the devil himself. 19:33 The accuser-- 19:34 And he would just as soon stir-up both sides of the issue 19:38 and so I have a challenge that I would like to throw out, 19:42 and that is to the church 19:45 and to believers of Jesus Christ 19:48 to apologize to those who may have been hurt, 19:53 isolated, rejected and inappropriately ridiculed 19:59 and that would be to apologize to many, many gays 20:03 that have been hurt by this issue. 20:05 At the same time I have a challenge 20:07 to the gay community and that is, 20:09 is that if you love your God, if you love who you think, 20:14 you know is God, Jesus Christ Himself, 20:17 can you come to Jesus, 20:19 and repent of any known sin you have? 20:23 And come in humility to the church and say, 20:26 I forgive you and so let's come together 20:30 and let's study God's word together 20:31 and lets see what God's plan 20:33 really is by studying out His word. 20:35 Let's become the sons and the daughters 20:37 and the family that Jesus Christ 20:39 intended us to be and search his out together. 20:42 And we want more people, 20:45 we want may be not more people, we just want people, 20:47 to become true believers in Jesus. 20:49 Yeah. 20:50 And to give their lives to Him and to follow the Bible 20:52 and to realize that He has a better way, 20:54 that He's not responsible for the persecution-- 20:56 Absolutely. And the injustice-- 20:57 That's right. 20:59 And the hatred, and the hostility 21:00 toward anybody. 21:03 As we've talked about, He doesn't condone sin, 21:06 you know, if we go back to this verse in Luke 15, 21:10 it says, "Then drew near to Him all the publicans 21:12 and the sinners for to hear Him, 21:15 and the Pharisees and the scribes murmured 21:17 and said this man welcomes sinners." 21:20 Amen. "And He eats with them." 21:22 Now to Jesus, I mean Jesus knew 21:24 what sin was and He did not participate in sin. 21:27 That's right. 21:28 He didn't yield to sin, He never sinned. 21:30 But He hung out with sinners 21:34 because He wanted to bring them, 21:35 He wanted to bring them to God and to His love and in fact, 21:40 the name Jesus itself in Mathew 121, 21:44 the angel said to Joseph-- 21:47 That's right, that's right. 21:48 That you will call His name Jesus, 21:51 for He shall save His people from their sins. 21:55 Halleluiah. 21:56 And the name Jesus means savior, 21:58 and it has to do with savior from sins. 22:00 Yes. 22:01 He came all the way down here from a Holy Heaven, 22:03 He went to the very bottom of the ladder 22:06 and He knew why He came down here, 22:08 it was because of sin. 22:10 Jesus, did not participated in sin, 22:11 He didn't practiced sin, He didn't condoled sin, 22:13 He didn't rationalized sin, He didn't participated in sin, 22:17 but He loved, He loved sinners. 22:19 Yes. And He gave His life for them. 22:22 Yes. And He drew them to Himself. 22:25 And that's what He's all about. Yeah. 22:27 You know, and that's what we need to be all about. 22:29 I love how our pastor once told me, 22:31 he said that, that Jesus took my death, 22:35 the death that I deserved 22:36 so that I could have the life that He deserved. 22:38 Wow. 22:39 And that was incredibly humbling for me. 22:42 I could submit myself to someone like that. 22:44 Yeah. 22:46 And you know I think it's a-- 22:48 I know that it is true, based on my study of the Bible 22:52 when it talks about sinners, Jesus ate with sinners, 22:54 He loved sinners, He welcomed sinners, 22:56 He wanted to save sinners, 22:57 but you know just as we talked about 22:59 the false of the church 23:00 and there is just false everywhere 23:02 I mean we're a mixed up human family. 23:04 It's a fallen world. 23:05 That's right, we're in a fallen world 23:07 and the reality is that if church members choose 23:10 to hold on to bad attitudes 23:12 and if those that are doing things 23:16 that they shouldn't be doing, that are really wrong 23:19 then choose to hold on to those sins 23:24 then whether it's the church or those in the church 23:27 or those outside the church, we're all or would be all of us 23:32 and we've all done this at some point, 23:34 we are really rejecting the one 23:38 who came here to give His life for us and Jesus, 23:43 He is the most rejected of all. 23:45 That's right. That's right. 23:46 Being Christians have been persecuted, 23:49 many in the gay, lesbian, 23:51 transgender community have been cruelly treated, 23:55 unjustly and there is no justification for that. 23:57 Right. 23:59 In the heart of Christ and yet Jesus Himself, 24:02 He is the most abused of them all 24:06 because He was abused, 24:07 He was criticized by the Pharisees, 24:09 by the religious people, 24:11 who criticized Him for loving sinners 24:14 but others you know who have 24:17 or whenever anyone chooses to hold on to sin 24:21 we're really rejecting Him as well, aren't we? 24:24 That's right. 24:25 And so He is the rejected one and that, 24:27 that reminds me, brings me back to the text 24:30 I want to wind this up with, which is in the book of Isaiah. 24:35 Isaiah 53 lets just take a look at a couple of these verses 24:39 and we've got couple of minutes left. 24:42 Isaiah 53, it's a prophecy about Jesus Christ, 24:46 this whole chapter and in verse 3, 24:50 Isaiah 53:3, the Bible says that 24:53 "He is despised and rejected of men, 24:57 He is a man of sorrows and acquainted with grief, 25:00 we hid as it were our faces from Him, 25:02 He was despised, and we esteemed him not, 25:06 surely He has borne our grief's and carried our sorrows, 25:11 yet we did esteem Him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted, 25:15 but He was wounded", and why was He wounded? 25:17 For my transgressions. 25:18 That's right, for our transgressions, 25:21 and the word "our" means those in the church, 25:23 those outside the church, those in the gay community, 25:26 those in the Wiccan community. 25:28 Those in the Muslim community, those that are atheists, 25:31 all around the world. 25:33 He was wounded for all of our transgressions. 25:37 He was bruised for our inequities. 25:40 The chastisement or the punishment 25:42 of our peace was upon Him 25:44 and with His stripes we are healed. 25:46 Amen. 25:47 And like it, verse 6, the next word there is "all". 25:52 Verse 6 says, "All we like sheep 25:55 have gone astray. 25:57 We have turned everyone" and that's inside the church, 26:01 outside the church, it's the whole world, 26:03 "every one of us has turned to his own way 26:07 and the Lord has laid on Him" 26:12 the sin of, how many people? 26:16 All. 26:17 The Bible says the sin of us all. 26:21 So biblically speaking we're all in this together. 26:25 That's right. 26:26 We all share a common humanity, 26:28 we're all fallen, we've all sinned, 26:30 we have broken God's commandments 26:32 and our sins, whatever they may be, 26:36 on what ever side of the fence we're on, 26:38 all of our sins have been placed upon Jesus Christ 26:41 and He suffered for those sins 26:44 and He agonized for those sins 26:46 and He died on a cruel cross for those sins 26:49 as the rejected one and yet praise God, 26:53 after He paid that price He rose from the dead. 26:56 Amen. 26:57 And we want to offer Him to you 27:01 and that's what this is all about, 27:02 that's what we're about, 27:03 it's lifting up Jesus, offering you His love, 27:05 His grace, His forgiveness and His power. 27:08 Whoever you are, whatever you've done? 27:10 The one that you need is Him, Jesus Christ. 27:13 Amen. 27:15 So stick with us we've got more 27:17 to come on Coming Out. 27:20 If you would like to order the 13 part Coming Out series 27:23 for $34.95 plus shipping, call 1-800-782-4253, 27:28 or write to White Horse Media, PO Box 1139, 27:31 Newport, Washington, 99156. 27:34 Pastor Ron Woolsey, Wayne Blakely 27:36 and Mike Carducci are each available 27:38 to conduct a seminar in your area. 27:40 To schedule a speaking engagement, 27:41 contact Coming Out Ministries 27:43 by calling 360-936-8514, 27:47 or visit comingoutministries.org. |
Revised 2015-04-02