Participants: Steve Wohlberg (Host), Ron Woolsey, Mike Carducci
Series Code: COT
Program Code: COT000009
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00:09 "Can you Pray the Gay Away?"
00:12 That's our topic next on Coming Out. 01:02 Welcome to part nine of Coming Out. 01:04 This is a special series that we really hope 01:07 is something that will help to heal hurting hearts, 01:11 that's what this is all about. 01:13 And I'm Steve Wohlberg, and I'm here 01:14 again in our studio 01:16 with Pastor Ron Woolsey and Mike Carducci, 01:19 they are cofounders of the ministry called Coming Out, 01:23 that is really a multifaceted ministry, it's-- 01:25 it's designed to speak to the public, 01:28 to educate the church 01:30 and to help those that are involved in gay issues, 01:33 to find real solutions to their issues 01:39 that will genuinely gain peace to their hearts. 01:42 And so here we are again guys, this is it, 01:45 number nine we got lot to do and you know, 01:48 as I look at the sequence of the programs that we've had, 01:51 I can honestly say that I think this is 01:54 possibly one of the most important of them all 01:57 and we need to summarize a little bit where we been. 02:01 You have told your stories of coming out of a gay lifestyle. 02:06 And what is happened to you, which is invariable to us, 02:11 you know, just to hear what you have to say 02:14 and we've also looked at the Bible. 02:16 We have said without apology that we believe in this book. 02:22 We believe what the Bible says, that we believe in God of love, 02:26 but God of love who also tells us the truth. 02:30 He has given us a revelation of His plan, 02:33 in the Garden of Eden 02:34 for a male and a female to be united in marriage. 02:39 We believe in that plan, 02:40 we see that plan all through out the Bible 02:42 and we've also seen verses that tell us 02:46 that there are deviations from His plan that well, 02:50 He may love, He does love people, 02:53 He does not approve of those deviations. 02:58 And I know it's a-- it's a tough text, 03:01 many people don't like us sharing this, 03:02 but we believe that there is a whole lot of people out there 03:05 that really need this information 03:07 as part of their healing. 03:09 Romans 1:26, 27 talk about 03:14 men a burning in their hearts with a-- 03:17 with desires for other men and women go against nature, 03:22 Romans 1 says. 03:24 And burning in theirs hearts with desires for other women, 03:28 and I we've also mention that those two verses 03:32 are in a context of whole host of verses 03:35 that deal with actually 24 different sins, 03:37 and whether it's you know, this sin or that sin 03:40 or whole host of other sins 03:42 really ultimately we're all in this together. 03:44 Because whatever direction or flesh goes 03:47 we all have the similar problem and that is sin, 03:51 and we need-- we need a solution, 03:54 and that's what we're here to talk about 03:56 today about the solution, 03:58 is there really hope for real change 04:04 to those that are struggling with this issue? 04:08 Can you pray the gay away that's our-- 04:13 that's our topic 04:15 and so I'm gonna turn this time over to you 04:18 'cause you got a lot to say. 04:20 Well, I think pray the gay away has become 04:23 such a cliché, but in my experience I prayed plenty 04:27 that God would you know, make me straight and that my-- 04:30 my thoughts would be straight 04:31 and I didn't know how untwist this-- 04:33 this rope that it gotten so knotted up for me, and so I-- 04:38 I resonate with people that say the same thing 04:41 and you know, they been documentaries done about it 04:44 and basically the answer is no, you can't pray the gay away, 04:47 but I would say that it's more than that, 04:49 it's more than just praying the gay away. 04:52 There's many steps in the process 04:53 of coming out of that lifestyle more than just praying. 04:56 I had to not only pray 04:57 but I also needed to cooperate with-- 05:00 with what the Lord was bringing to me, 05:01 through His word and through the-- 05:04 through the experiences of other people. 05:06 So I mean, at first-- 05:08 at first I would just want to affirm 05:10 that you believe and I believe that real change is possible. 05:13 I know that there are many that say, you know, 05:15 if you're born that way, that's just way you are, 05:17 and nothing is really gonna change you. 05:21 Pastor Ron, you can relate to that 05:23 because that's part of-- 05:25 that's actually the title of your book. 05:26 That kind can never change, can they? 05:29 And you are proof that-- Exhibit "A." 05:33 Yeah, that statement really isn't correct. 05:35 Hey we're all exhibit "A" aren't we? 05:37 But you know, on this-- 05:38 this question of praying the gay away 05:41 I really sympathize with those who have 05:44 tried to pray the gay away 05:46 and have been disappointed because that's my experience. 05:50 When I was first-- 05:52 when I was young and I was married 05:54 and I was the father of two little children 05:58 and I was being just overwhelmed 06:00 with these desires and temptations, 06:04 and tendencies that I had not acted on 06:08 and I prayed relentlessly that the Lord would take that away. 06:12 I wanted to be-- I was a spiritual person, 06:15 I wanted to be a faithful husband, 06:18 I wanted to truly love my wife, I wanted to be a good father, 06:22 and I prayed relentlessly that the Lord would take this away 06:26 and He didn't. 06:28 And when I eventually fell into the gay life, 06:31 and as I've said in earlier programs, 06:34 I went angry and bitter against God, 06:37 but there is just so much I did not understand-- 06:41 about this whole issue. 06:43 There is as Mike said, there is much more to-- 06:46 to this issue than just praying, 06:49 in fact, we'll talk about it later. 06:51 There are many steps that can be taken. 06:54 That in praying-- 06:59 I eventually became so frustrated, 07:01 I stopped praying. 07:03 And when I stopped praying that's when I fell into it. 07:07 I didn't realize that as long as I was praying, 07:10 I was resisting and I was resisting temptation 07:14 and I had not fallen into it. 07:16 But when I stopped praying, 07:18 gave up on God, became angry with God, 07:21 I had no defense whatsoever, and then I fell, 07:24 fell headlong in to it. 07:27 So the first time around ultimately, you know, 07:31 you didn't have all the information I guess. 07:33 And it didn't really work for you, 07:35 at the first time-- time around, 07:36 I'm sure a lot of people can relate to that 07:37 although you were, you were still by praying, 07:42 you were making progress but-- 07:43 I was resisting. 07:44 Yeah, you were resisting, but there is still 07:46 where a whole a lot of things you didn't understand. 07:48 And then second time around things you really, 07:51 you made even more progress 07:52 and something really big did happen. 07:54 Oh, yes. Well, I think this-- 07:55 This I know this is where I made the mistake 07:58 and this is where many people make the mistake. 08:00 They say, well, if God didn't want me to be this way, 08:04 He wouldn't have made me this way. 08:06 And at any time He wants, He can take it away. 08:09 But that just eliminates any participation on our part, 08:13 any exercise on our part and it really gives an excuse. 08:19 And we talked about excuses earlier and blaming 08:22 because God doesn't answer my prayer and just take it away. 08:25 Then He must want me to be this way. 08:27 I mean that's the argument you hear all the time. 08:29 Yeah. 08:30 But there is much more to it 08:32 then just praying and sitting back 08:34 and waiting for the Lord to do what we should be doing. 08:37 Okay, so Ron, I really identify with that statement 08:40 because God isn't gonna wrestle anything away from me. 08:43 So even the Bible says that everything permissible 08:45 but not everything is beneficial. 08:47 And so you know, by saying Lord, 08:49 if you want to change me You can, you know. 08:51 He needs my permission to work in my life 08:54 because He gives us the-- 08:55 the freedom of free choice, right? 08:58 And so He is not gonna just take it away. 09:01 He has to have our cooperation in that 09:03 because He is not a God that's forcefully, 09:05 He doesn't push His way. 09:07 That was awesome, I really appreciate that comment. 09:09 And so I, you know, both of you have been there 09:12 and now you are out, 09:13 I mean you are cofounders of Coming Out, 09:17 and you have a mission and a message 09:20 to a whole lot of people 09:21 and I guess what I really want to-- 09:23 what I really want to focus on that I guess, 09:25 but what I do on a focus on 09:26 and I'm sure a lot of people are probably wondering 09:29 this is what was it really if you put the details together, 09:35 make it practical, you know, what worked for you? 09:38 Because obvious to me, I mean, I know both of you, 09:41 your lives are happy, 09:43 you know, Ron, we have breakfast together 09:45 and you're a happy man. 09:47 And Mike, you know, we can hear you singing 09:50 and humming in between these programs, 09:53 you know, as you walking around the building, 09:54 and you are just, you're a happy person. 09:57 And so, you know, 09:58 a lot of people that are struggling with these issues 10:00 they are not happy, 10:01 they are conflicted, they are confused, 10:03 they are tormented, they bothered, 10:05 they looking for help 10:06 and so we are looking to you now to tell us 10:10 what worked for you and how is it possible 10:13 to have that real, genuine transformation take place? 10:19 Well, I can I assure you 10:20 that prayer was a very major part of it, 10:23 but what worked for me, I actually itemized in my book. 10:27 Can I just go to those steps and just name them? 10:30 The last chapter of my book is called 10:32 "You Too Can Be Made Whole" 10:35 and what I basically did was I listed these steps. 10:39 I felt the Lord led me through to victory, 10:43 and to sustain me in victory. 10:44 And of course I written paragraphs about each of these, 10:47 but I will just name the steps. 10:49 First of all, I came to realize 10:50 God's love for me in my fallen condition, 10:53 I realize that He love me immensely. 10:56 That gave me value, and so with that value 11:00 I been faced myself. 11:03 I just had to take honest look at myself 11:05 and what I saw was not pretty and then I acknowledged 11:11 that what I was dealing with was a sin issue, 11:14 that was the third step for me to acknowledge 11:17 that this is a sin issue then and Jesus can save me from sin. 11:23 Number four, 11:25 I went through and I listed every abomination in the Bible 11:28 to put them all together in paragraph 11:30 that gave me great hope that salvation was for me too. 11:35 Mine was not the abomination, it was one of many 11:39 and God can save us from any abomination. 11:43 Then I realized that the cause of homosexuality 11:46 which we've discussed on this program was really a relevant. 11:49 It doesn't matter what the cause was, 11:52 if I'm drowning in the sea, 11:54 what difference does it make how I got there? 11:57 Do I accept the hand of the lifeguard 11:59 or do I keep making excuses for drowning. 12:01 Couldn't. 12:03 Number six, I had to learn to forgive. 12:06 I had many people to forgive, 12:09 but not only did I have to forgive, 12:13 I had to ask forgiveness as well 12:15 because I had heard people. 12:17 Number seven, 12:18 I acknowledge that this really is a matter of choice 12:21 and I had resisted that all my life 12:23 saying that it was not a matter of choice. 12:26 But if God gives us a way out and we don't take it 12:30 then it is a choice. 12:32 Number eight, 12:33 I studied and realized that temptation was not sin, 12:37 and I didn't have to carry around the burden 12:40 of this temptation is my identity. 12:43 Yeah, you didn't have to feel guilty 12:44 just because you were tempted. 12:46 His feeling are flowing through you, 12:48 but unless you're choosing to go with them-- 12:51 There is no sin, there is no guilt, 12:54 it's just temptation. 12:55 And I think that would be-- 12:56 that should be a huge wait for some people, 12:59 to just realize that-- that critical point. 13:02 Yeah, that was a very, very critical point for me 13:05 to realize that I didn't have to be identified 13:08 by the nature of the temptations 13:10 as Satan had designed for me. 13:13 Number nine, I realize I needed to walk with God. 13:17 I needed to develop a relationship with Him 13:20 and number ten, to protect my environment. 13:22 I uprooted myself and move from California to Arkansas, 13:27 to do my next 40 years in the wilderness. 13:31 To protect my environment, 13:34 to stay away from the bad influence-- 13:37 somebody once said something like 13:39 one way to win the war is to avoid the battle. 13:43 That you know, we need to get away, 13:44 Jesus said that we should pray lead us not in to temptation, 13:48 so part of overcoming temptation 13:50 is getting away from temptation as much as we can. 13:54 Right, number 11, I learned to personalize scripture 13:58 and I have an article that I put together called 14:00 a Rainbow of Promises. 14:02 And I would insert my name in the promises. 14:05 So as I reading the promises 14:07 I'm reading them to me personally. 14:09 That was a very powerful tool. 14:12 And number 12, I learned to act on God's word. 14:15 Yes, I prayed, but then I acted-- 14:19 I learned to act to answer my own prayer, 14:22 I would take God it is doing. At what part do you pray? 14:24 And do my part I would act up on it 14:27 and trust the Lord to do His part and give me strength. 14:30 And number 13, 14:31 which I found to be very helpful is to just be grateful 14:34 for what God has given 14:36 and not try to you live outside of what He has given me. 14:40 He has given us marriage between a man and a women, 14:44 I need to be grateful for that, 14:45 and not covet the fruit on the other side of the fence 14:49 or the fruit on the wrong tree in the garden. 14:52 And number 14, the last one, that I have my list is that-- 14:57 the secret to over coming sin 14:59 is helping others to overcome sin. 15:01 And upon my conversion 15:02 I was immediately launched into ministry just like you, 15:05 just like Wayne. 15:07 Excuse me, just like Wayne, 15:09 and we overcome the accuser by the blood of their lamb 15:12 and by the word of our testimony. 15:13 Amen. 15:14 By sharing what the Lord has done for us 15:17 we are constantly having positive reinforcement. 15:20 Thank you, thank you, Pastor Ron. Mike. 15:23 And so as you were reading those 15:24 and kind of explaining them, 15:26 Ron, you know, for me it was a little bit different than that, 15:29 and I think that what so wonderful is 15:31 that we serve a personal God. 15:34 And so you know, for some people it isn't necessary, 15:36 you know, how they ended up there, 15:38 and that God, you know, can bring you out of anything. 15:41 And yet for me when I gave my heart to the Lord 15:43 and I read these-- 15:44 these horrible verses that said that I was in abomination 15:47 and yet I believe that God made me gay, 15:50 you know, I put it to Him I said, 15:51 I want to know why? 15:53 I want to know how this thing happened? 15:54 And because there weren't any resources 15:56 and there wasn't anyone that I felt safe 15:58 to talk to in-- in church, 16:00 even though I was going to church 16:02 and I was following Jesus Christ. 16:04 What was so tendering and compassionate 16:05 from my Savior is that 16:07 He started to put me in front of sermons 16:09 that started to give me clues and ideas 16:12 that there are hereditary tendencies, 16:14 as well as cultivated things that of course that I had 16:17 you know, engaged to myself, but it helped me to understand 16:20 that at the earliest moment that I thought I was gay, 16:23 it wasn't because I'm inherited gay tendencies 16:26 it was because of the sexual sin 16:27 that had gone on for there and four generations behind me 16:30 and then not only to understand that, 16:32 but also to start to understand the way out. 16:34 I didn't want to give up my boyfriend. 16:36 I didn't want to give up my sexual addiction. 16:38 And so it was a slow process for me, 16:40 where is Ron, for you within a year you already married, 16:44 but how good is God that He is so personal, 16:47 that He is willing to take whatever our situation. 16:49 I love this one personally, a author says. 16:51 Yes, she says that God takes into account 16:53 from cause to effect, 16:55 and the one that's most inclined to air, 16:57 the one that's most inclined to hurt and be hurt 17:00 is the special object of his focus. 17:03 And I believe that, 17:04 that is more than just praying the gay away. 17:06 I had two sisters that were praying for me for years. 17:09 God didn't rip out the-- the road from underneath me 17:12 and I wasn't laying in a gutter somewhere, 17:14 you know, as alcoholic and drug addict, 17:16 I was at the top of my game 17:18 and yet God was still able to reach me 17:20 through inner sensory prayer my sisters. 17:22 So can you pray the gay away? 17:25 May be not totally, 17:26 but it's definitely in my opinion 17:28 a vital part of the process out of the gay life. 17:31 So it's not the only thing. No, but it's vital. Yes. 17:34 But as far as the gay going away, that can't happen. 17:38 Right, but-- 17:39 okay, you know, if God could have just wave that magic wand 17:41 and just hit me over head and boob now, 17:43 I'm straight, you know. So doesn't happen over night? 17:46 But what had denied me was the opportunity to go through 17:49 the process of looking at all the pain 17:51 and all of the damage that have been done to me 17:53 and what was so kind of God, 17:55 as He gave it to me slowly at a time that I could look at it, 17:59 I could process it, and I could hand it over to Him. 18:02 And as He was able to do that over a course of years, 18:04 which was always my choice to-- 18:06 to choose to do or not do 18:08 but He was patience and He was long suffering 18:10 and it was messy on my part, 18:12 but as I was willing to do that He was faithful, 18:15 He stood right by me and every time I fell, 18:17 and I fell a lot, He said Mike, get back up. 18:19 I still want you, I still love you 18:22 and I believe that all of that was part of the process 18:24 of coming out of that lifestyle. 18:26 Wonderful, how important was the community 18:29 that you told me that, 18:31 the church your involvement in a good church 18:34 and a healing church, where people didn't just go, 18:38 you know, I'm just-- 18:39 But you know, Steve, the shame is I experienced both. 18:43 I remember going in to one church 18:45 and you know, even the-- 18:47 even one of the head elders that was on this board meeting 18:50 told me that he didn't want to run around on the woods 18:52 like a bunch of homosexuals and you know, 18:55 was making a pitch to have a men's ministry. 18:57 But when I moved to another church, 18:59 this simple man, you know, asked to wash my feet 19:02 and as he was washing my feet he just poured over me with-- 19:05 with love you know, we appreciate you being here 19:07 and we're grateful that you chose to come here, 19:10 what a blessing you've been. 19:11 And when he prayed for me 19:12 every man in that room stood up, 19:15 walked over and put their hands on me. 19:16 I didn't even realize the power of healing 19:19 that was coming through those men. 19:21 They didn't know what they were doing, 19:22 they were just following the Holy Spirit urges 19:25 to affirm me, to include me 19:27 and part of that was also part of the healing 19:30 and the restoring to my masculinity. 19:32 Wow. Praise God. Yeah, so God has many-- 19:36 So His people has a role, His-- 19:38 His people that Christians need to reach out 19:43 and not be repulsed. 19:45 I mean, I know that you know, sin whatever it is. 19:47 It is repulsive and some people say well, 19:49 you know, I just can't-- I can't do that. 19:51 I can't love you, I can't talk to you, 19:53 I can't minister to you, I can't be your friend. 19:55 You know, because there is just a sin. 19:57 But as I thought about that, 19:58 you know, I think about to Jesus, all sin is-- 20:04 you know, I just He-- He-- the Bible actually says, 20:08 in His heart He has a heart of love, 20:10 but there is one thing 20:12 that the Bible does say that He hates. 20:13 It's in Hebrews Chapter 1, 20:14 it says you have hated lawlessness, He hates sin. 20:17 He loves righteousness, He hates lawlessness. 20:19 He hate sin because He knows 20:21 how harmful sin is to His universe. 20:24 Because of His love, He hates what's evil, 20:27 but at the same time 20:29 when He look at the sin down here that He hates 20:31 He chose to come down here. 20:33 He chose to work with all of us. 20:37 So whether we have you know, 20:39 same sex attraction, temptations 20:41 or opposite sex attraction temptation 20:44 or pornographic temptation or alcohol or drugs 20:47 or tobacco or pride, 20:50 which we're all, you know, stuck in we often don't see. 20:54 God needs really deal with us in that. 20:56 Whatever the issue is, 20:57 lying gossip the whole list of Romans 20, 21:00 Romans chapter well there is 24 of them. 21:02 Whatever it is, you know, 21:04 Jesus chose to come down here in the midst of all that 21:08 and to take all those sins into His own mind 21:10 and into His own heart to pay the price, 21:12 so He can reach out to sinners like you, 21:16 you and like me and get a hold of me 21:19 and get us out because He loved us. 21:22 And the church needs to play that role of reveling that-- 21:27 that grace. That grace. 21:29 Imagine if we could see that-- 21:31 that transformation in our churches 21:33 and part of what we talk about is not just educating 21:37 or calling people out of homosexual sin, 21:39 but really we want to educate the church 21:42 to create a safe place 21:43 where people can come from the community inside, 21:46 but you can't give something that you haven't received. 21:48 And so if a church still-- 21:50 you know, struggles with prejudice or-- 21:52 or with not being able to really deal with the issues 21:55 that people struggle with inside the church, 21:57 how are they gonna be effective 21:58 to deal with the issues on the outside? 22:00 That right. You know, there is a verse that just, 22:03 I feel like I got to share this. 22:05 It came to me earlier. 22:06 It's in Psalm 104:20, I remember I was-- 22:11 I'm sorry not Psalm 104, Psalm 107. 22:13 I was holding a series of meeting once in Canada 22:16 and there was a lady that was coming to the meetings 22:17 and she-- her life was all mixed up. 22:19 She had all kind of addictions and problems 22:22 and anyway she came to meetings 22:23 and she talked to me after one of the-- 22:25 one of the meetings and I opened my Bible 22:27 and I show to this verse. 22:29 Psalm 107:20 that says 22:31 "He sent his word, and healed them, 22:35 and delivered them from their destructions." 22:38 Amen. Wow, and she-- 22:40 She took this verse, she enlarged in her-- 22:43 in her mind and she told me later that as she drove away 22:47 she kept thinking about this verse. 22:48 He sent his word, and healed them, 22:51 and delivered them from their destructions. 22:52 And she realized that she was driving, 22:53 she told me later, she said that I had-- 22:55 I had all this destructions in my life that were destroying me 22:59 and she believe that God had brought her to meetings 23:02 and send His word to heal her. 23:05 And she just knew that she said 23:06 I'm gonna keep going to those meetings 23:08 and at the end her life was changed. 23:10 Because God's word has power to heal 23:12 and to deliver from whatever destruction we're dealing with. 23:16 You know, I found another verse 23:17 while we just talking James 5:16 says 23:20 "Confess your faults one to another, 23:21 and pray one for another, that you may be healed. 23:24 The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man avails much." 23:28 And so not only are we talking about an individual prayer, 23:31 prayer for ourselves, but also what if we had that-- 23:34 that model example in our church 23:36 where we could come and say, 23:37 hey, Steve I'm really struggling 23:38 with some thoughts in my head and can you help me? 23:41 Yes, Mike, you know, let's get the church together, 23:43 let's pray for Mike. 23:44 Because if we can create a safe environment 23:46 in our churches where people can come with their-- 23:49 their dirty laundry and not in a sensational way, 23:51 but in a sincere way to really give you strength 23:55 and to hold you and boaster you up. 23:57 I believe the God's word is powerful 23:59 and prayer does have its place, right? 24:01 Sure, of course. 24:02 And promises you know, claming these promises. 24:05 I have another important factor to consider in prayer, 24:09 it is the pray of the others 24:10 and I know this is the case with all of us. 24:14 We had people praying for us 24:16 where were not praying for ourselves. 24:18 And I know my parents prayed all of those years 24:21 that the Lord would do whatever it took to get my attention 24:24 that He would give me no rest day or night. 24:27 He was-- they were 24:28 constantly giving the Lord an invitation 24:31 and permission to go 24:33 where I was not giving the Lord an invitation or permission. 24:37 And so He-- Tell the story-- 24:39 tell the story about your dad when he was reading your book. 24:42 When, my dad was reading the manuscript for my book 24:45 he came across that part and he started laughing 24:47 and I was curious as to why he was laughing 24:50 reading my testimony. 24:52 And so I challenged him on that 24:53 and I said there is nothing funny in there. 24:55 And he says, well, look here he said 24:57 right here you wrote in your testimony, 24:59 in your manuscript the Lord gave me no rest day or night. 25:04 And I said yes, and what so funny about that? 25:07 He said, Ronny, your mom and I prayed for 16 years 25:10 that the Lord would give you no rest day or night. 25:13 There is our prayer and our answer in black and white. 25:16 Amen. 25:17 So the effectual fervent prayer of righteous people 25:20 does avail much. 25:21 Amen. 25:22 In inner seeding for before people dealing with this issue, 25:26 as well as any other issue. 25:28 Wow, that's says this. Praise God. 25:30 Now as we are getting down here-- 25:32 a close here I want to look at one more verse 25:34 which to me I thought about this from my perspective, 25:38 it just seems that Matthew 1:21, 25:42 when we-- when we you know, say can we pray the gay away 25:45 or maybe prayer itself is not enough 25:47 like you said we need more, 25:48 we need to understanding, we need education, 25:50 we need to learn from the Bible, 25:51 unrealistic expectations can be very damaging, 25:55 but we still need to believe in the power of God 25:58 to do what He is promised to do. 26:03 is where the angel Gabriel spoke to Joseph about the baby 26:07 that was gonna be born through Mary 26:09 and this verse says the angel said 26:12 "She shall bring forth a Son, 26:15 and you shall call His name Jesus." 26:18 And the word Jesus means Savior and then the angel said 26:22 "For he shall save His people from their sins." 26:28 And really the issue is Jesus Christ. 26:33 His name means Savior. 26:36 He is the one who says, I can save you from your sins and-- 26:41 and get you out and change your life 26:43 and make you new person. 26:44 And the issue is really can Jesus do what His name-- 26:48 what His name says? 26:50 Is He who He says He is 26:53 and there are millions of people who can testify Him? 26:55 Yes, He can. 26:56 If we give our life to Him, 26:58 if we make the choice and surrender everything Jesus, 27:01 He can do it. 27:02 He can save you, He can save me, 27:04 He can bring us into the heaven-- 27:06 the heaven of rest 27:08 where we can experience salvation, deliverance, 27:11 freedom, peace and love forever. 27:14 And that is what we are offering to you 27:16 through this book in Coming Out. 27:21 If you would like to order 27:22 the 13 part Coming Out series for $34.95 plus shipping, 27:26 call 1-800-782-4253 27:29 or write to White Horse Media, PO Box 1139, 27:32 Newport, Washington, 99156. 27:35 Pastor Woolsey, Dwayne Blakely and Mike Carducci 27:38 are each available to conduct a seminar in your area. 27:41 To schedule a speaking engagement, 27:42 contact Coming Out Ministries by calling 360-936-8514 27:48 or visit comingoutministries.org. |
Revised 2015-02-19