Participants: Pr. John Carter (Host), Alan Reinach
Series Code: CR
Program Code: CR001021
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00:00 [MUSIC] >> FROM ARCADIA, CALIFORNIA,
00:08 THE CARTER REPORT PRESENTS "THE LIVING WORD AROUND 00:11 THE WORLD." 00:17 >> HELLO, FRIEND. 00:18 I'M JOHN CARTER. 00:19 A WARM WELCOME TO YOU. 00:22 I HAVE A SPECIAL PROGRAM FOR YOU TODAY BECAUSE I HAVE MY 00:26 OLD FRIEND, ALAN REINACH, AN ATTORNEY. 00:30 ALAN IS THE EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF THE CHURCH STATE COUNCIL 00:34 HERE IN BEAUTIFUL CALIFORNIA. 00:37 AND TODAY WE'RE GOING TO BE TALKING ABOUT A MUSLIM MOSQUE 00:41 IN THE GREAT CITY OF NEW YORK NEAR GROUND ZERO. 00:45 AND ALSO WE'RE GOING TO BE TALKING ABOUT GAY MARRIAGE. 00:49 STAY WITH US. 00:55 >> HELLO, FRIEND, I'M JOHN CARTER, 00:58 STANDING ON THE BANKS OF THE KAZAN RIVER. 01:01 THAT'S A TRIBUTARY OF THE MIGHTY VOLGA RIVER 01:05 IN THE LAND OF RUSSIA. 01:05 THIS IS THE CITY OF KAZAN, 01:10 THE CAPITAL OF TATARSTAN, A MUSLIM REPUBLIC OF 01:15 THE RUSSIAN FEDERATION. 01:16 WE ARE HERE BY THE SHEER GRACE OF GOD AND WE SAY GLORY BE TO 01:22 GOD FOR THIS OPPORTUNITY BECAUSE DURING THE YEAR 2008, 01:28 THE CARTER REPORT TEAM, ONCE AGAIN BY THE GRACE OF GOD, 01:32 BAPTIZED HUNDREDS OF MUSLIMS INTO CHRIST IN FRONT 01:37 OF THE MUSLIM MOSQUE. 01:39 PEOPLE SAID IT COULD NEVER HAPPEN, BUT REMEMBER THIS. 01:43 GOD IS GREAT. 01:45 AND JESUS SAID, "WITH GOD, ALL THINGS ARE POSSIBLE." 01:48 I WANT TO THANK YOU TODAY FOR 01:53 YOUR MARVELOUS SUPPORT, FOR STANDING WITH US IN THE 01:57 PREACHING OF THE EVERLASTING GOSPEL. 02:00 PLEASE CONTINUE TO PRAY FOR US AND PRAY FOR KAZAN. 02:04 WRITE TO ME, PLEASE. 02:06 JOHN CARTER POST OFFICE BOX 1900, 02:10 THOUSAND OAKS, CALIFORNIA, 91358. 02:16 WE'RE NOT GIVING UP ON RUSSIA. 02:18 NEITHER SHOULD YOU. 02:19 PLEASE WRITE TO ME. 02:21 JOHN CARTER POST OFFICE BOX 1900, 02:25 THOUSAND OAKS, CALIFORNIA, 91358. 02:29 THAT'S: JOHN CARTER POST OFFICE BOX 1900, 02:33 THOUSAND OAKS, CALIFORNIA, 91358. 02:37 SUPPORT US IN THIS GREAT WORK. 02:40 PRAY FOR RUSSIA AND THANK YOU. 02:44 IN JESUS' NAME, MAY GOD RICHLY BLESS YOU. 02:56 >> ALAN, I'M DELIGHTED TO SEE 02:57 YOU AGAIN. 02:58 >> PASTOR CARTER, IT'S A DELIGHT TO BE WITH YOU. 03:00 >> YOU'RE LOOKING GOOD. 03:01 >> THANK YOU. 03:02 >> HOW ARE THINGS GOING WITH YOU? 03:04 >> WELL, WE'RE VERY, VERY BUSY. 03:06 A LOT OF RELIGIOUS LIBERTY ISSUES TO DEAL WITH. 03:09 >> HERE IN THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA. 03:11 >> INDEED. 03:13 MANY PEOPLE LOSING THEIR JOBS FOR NO OTHER CRIME THAN WANTING 03:16 TO OBEY GOD. 03:18 >> WE'RE GONNA TALK ABOUT THAT TODAY. 03:21 TELL ME, WHAT ARE YOUR VIEWS ABOUT THE BUILDING OF THIS 03:24 MOSQUE IN THE GREAT CITY OF NEW YORK? 03:27 >> THERE'S SO MUCH MISINFORMATION COMING OUT 03:30 OF THIS THING, JOHN. 03:32 YOU KNOW, IF THIS WERE A METHODIST CHURCH, 03:35 NOBODY WOULD CARE ONE WHIT. 03:37 AND NOBODY CARED ABOUT IT UNTIL SOME POLITICIANS DECIDED THIS 03:41 WAS A GREAT WAY TO GET PEOPLE STIRRED UP AND STOKE THE FIRES 03:45 OF INTOLERANCE. 03:46 >> YEAH, THEY'VE CERTAINLY GOT A LOT OF PEOPLE STIRRED UP. 03:48 >> YOU KNOW, I PUT THIS STORY TOGETHER WITH WHAT WE SAW 03:52 IN FLORIDA LEADING UP TO 9/11 WITH THE PASTOR THERE WHO WAS 03:57 ANNOUNCING HIS INTENTION TO BURN THE KORAN, 04:00 GATHER KORANS TO BURN. 04:02 >> WHY IS THAT SO BAD? 04:03 >> HOW WOULD YOU FEEL IF OVER IN SAUDI ARABIA, THEY SAID, 04:07 "WE'RE GONNA GATHER UP BIBLES AND BURN BIBLES"? 04:10 >> NOW DO THEY DO THAT IN SAUDI ARABIA? 04:12 >> NOT THAT I'M AWARE OF. 04:14 >> BUT YOU CAN'T BUILD CHURCHES IN SAUDI ARABIA, CAN YOU? 04:16 >> OH, NO, THERE IS NO RELIGIOUS FREEDOM THERE. 04:18 LET'S BE CLEAR. 04:20 BUT MY--YOU ASKED ME WHY IS IT SO BAD TO BURN KORANS. 04:23 WELL, LET'S ASSUME THAT AS A CHRISTIAN MINISTER, 04:27 YOU FEEL THAT IT'S YOUR OBLIGATION TO PREACH THE GOSPEL 04:30 TO EVERY NATION, KINDRED, TONGUE, AND PEOPLE AND TO SHOW 04:35 THE LOVE OF CHRIST, THAT CHRIST DIED TO SAVE 04:37 EVERYONE. 04:38 WELL, ARE YOU GONNA WIN ANYBODY TO CHRIST BY BURNING THEIR HOLY 04:42 BOOK? 04:43 >> NO, IT GOES ENTIRELY AGAINST THE TEACHINGS OF OUR LORD JESUS 04:46 CHRIST. 04:48 >> IT DOES. 04:48 THE GOLDEN RULE SAYS WE DO TO OTHERS THE WAY WE WOULD WANT 04:52 TO BE TREATED. 04:53 >> BUT OBVIOUSLY THIS PASTOR IS STIRRED UP, ISN'T HE? 04:56 >> AND HE'S GOT A LOT OF PEOPLE STIRRED UP. 04:59 >> YES, HE HAS. 05:00 >> AND, YOU KNOW, IT REALLY SHOWS THE DARK SIDE OF AMERICAN 05:03 CHRISTIANITY BECAUSE IT BRINGS OUT THE WORST KIND OF US AND 05:07 THEM, YOU'RE THE ENEMY, HATRED, INTOLERANCE, BIGOTRY. 05:12 AND THE THING THAT TROUBLES ME, JOHN, IS THE INABILITY OF TOO 05:16 MANY AMERICANS TO DISTINGUISH BETWEEN GENUINELY DANGEROUS 05:20 AND VIOLENT ISLAMIC EXTREMISTS THAT WE OBVIOUSLY HAVE EVERY 05:25 RIGHT AND NEED TO DEAL WITH ON THE ONE HAND, 05:27 AND THE REST OF MUSLIMS WHO ARE JUST ORDINARY PEOPLE 05:31 LIKE WE ARE. 05:32 >> YEAH, YEAH. 05:34 I HAD AN AMAZING EXPERIENCE SOME YEARS AGO. 05:37 NOW I AGREE WITH YOU. 05:38 THERE ARE EXTREMISTS AND THESE PEOPLE ARE--WE'RE TALKING ABOUT 05:43 MUSLIMS, BUT, YOU KNOW, THERE ARE EXTREMISTS AMONG THE 05:46 CHRISTIANS TOO, LIKE THIS PASTOR WANTING TO BURN KORANS AND ALL 05:50 OF THE REST OF THAT. 05:52 BUT I HAD A BEAUTIFUL EXPERIENCE SOME YEARS AGO IN THE GREAT LAND 05:53 OF JORDAN. 05:57 I WAS PREACHING IN THE CHURCH IN AMMAN, ON THE SABBATH. 06:00 AND THE PASTOR TOLD ME THIS AMAZING STORY. 06:05 BECAUSE HE WAS A CHRISTIAN, HIS HOME WAS BOMBED BY SOME 06:09 MUSLIM EXTREMISTS. 06:11 HIS WIFE DIED. 06:13 >> OH, NO. 06:14 >> MM-HMM. 06:15 HIS DAUGHTER WAS DISFIGURED AND HE WAS JUST ABOUT KILLED 06:20 HIMSELF. 06:21 AND WHEN HE CAME-TO, ALAN, HE WAS IN A HOSPITAL. 06:24 AND THE FIRST PERSON HE SAW, THIS WAS A NUMBER OF YEARS AGO, 06:27 WAS KING HUSSEIN. 06:29 HE'S A MUSLIM. 06:32 AND THE KING OF JORDAN WAS STANDING THERE AND WHEN THE 06:34 CHRISTIAN PASTOR CAME TO, KING HUSSEIN SAID TO HIM, 06:38 "IN THE NAME OF GOD, IN THE NAME OF ALLAH, 06:40 I WANT YOU TO KNOW HOW SORRY I AM. THIS DOES NOT REPRESENT 06:44 WHAT I BELIEVE." 06:46 AND HE SAID, "I CAN'T BRING BACK YOUR WIFE, BUT I'M GOING TO DO 06:51 EVERYTHING I CAN DO. 06:52 I'M GOING TO GIVE YOU A NEW HOUSE. I'M GOING TO PAY FOR 06:55 YOUR MEDICAL EXPENSES. 06:58 I'M GOING TO TAKE CARE OF YOUR DAUGHTER." 07:01 SO I SAY THIS TO AMPLIFY THE TRUTH THAT YOU'VE SAID. 07:04 NOT ALL THE MUSLIMS ARE BAD PEOPLE. 07:07 BUT HERE IN AMERICA, AS YOU SAID, SOME PEOPLE SEEM 07:10 TO THINK LIKE THAT PASTOR, THAT ANY PERSON WHO'S NOT 07:13 A CHRISTIAN NEEDS TO BE PERSECUTED. 07:18 >> PERSECUTION IS NOT A REFLECTION OF THE CHARACTER 07:22 OF GOD. 07:22 LET'S BE VERY CLEAR ABOUT THAT. 07:26 ALL RELIGIONS PRETTY MUCH HAVE DEGENERATED TO PERSECUTION 07:31 AT SOME TIME OR ANOTHER. 07:33 >> YES, THEY HAVE. 07:34 >> I'M A PROTESTANT. 07:34 PROTESTANTS HAVE OUR OWN DARK HISTORY. 07:37 CATHOLICISM, ISLAM DOES. 07:40 >> CATHOLICISM, THE INQUISITION. 07:42 >> SURE. 07:43 >> GOODNESS ME, MILLIONS TORTURED TO DEATH. 07:45 >> BUT YOU KNOW, AS I READ THE BIBLE, JOHN, I SEE THAT THIS 07:50 CONFLICT BETWEEN EAST AND WEST, BETWEEN ISLAM AND CHRISTIANITY 07:54 IS PROPHESIED IN SCRIPTURE AND IT'S THE FINAL CONFLICT BEFORE 07:59 THE COMING OF CHRIST. 08:00 IT'S BACK TO THE CRUSADES. 08:02 IT'S A RENEWAL OF THIS ANCIENT CONFLICT. 08:07 >> LET'S GET BACK TO THIS MOSQUE AGAIN BECAUSE THIS 08:10 IS A CONTROVERSIAL ISSUE. 08:13 IT CERTAINLY HAS DIVIDED AMERICA. 08:15 >> IT HAS. 08:16 >> WHY DO YOU, A PERSON WHO IS A CHRISTIAN, A SABBATH-KEEPING 08:19 CHRISTIAN, SO THAT--SOME WOULD SAY THAT IS JEWISH. 08:22 WE DON'T BELIEVE IT IS JEWISH IN THE SENSE THAT THE JEWISH PEOPLE 08:26 GAVE US THE SABBATH. 08:28 BUT HERE YOU ARE, ALAN REINACH. 08:29 YOU'RE AN ATTORNEY. 08:30 YOU HAVE A JEWISH BACKGROUND AND YOU CAME FROM NEW YORK. 08:34 >> FROM AN OLD WALL STREET FAMILY. 08:36 >> YOU OWN HALF OF--A WALL STREET FAMILY. 08:38 WE WON'T GO DOWN THAT ROAD. 08:39 >> I'M THE FIRST BLACK SHEEP TO LEAVE WALL STREET. 08:42 >> NO, YOU WERE THE FIRST WHITE SHEEP TO LEAVE WALL STREET. 08:47 SO ALAN REINACH, A JEWISH ATTORNEY, 08:49 WHO'S NOW A CHRISTIAN, WHO WAS A SABBATH-KEEPER, 08:52 BELIEVES IT'S OKAY FOR THE MUSLIMS TO BUILD THIS MOSQUE 08:56 NEAR GROUND ZERO. 08:58 >> WELL, FIRST OF ALL, IT ISN'T REALLY A MOSQUE. 09:01 IT'S A CULTURAL CENTER. 09:03 >> BUT THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE A WORSHIP CENTER IN THERE. 09:04 >> YES, THEY WILL. 09:06 BUT WE'RE SO IGNORANT. 09:07 FIRST OF ALL, AMERICANS ARE SO IGNORANT ABOUT ISLAM, 09:10 WE DON'T EVEN KNOW WHAT THIS IMAM--HE'S A SUFI. 09:14 SUFI, THEY'RE THE MYSTICS AND THEY'VE BEEN PERSECUTED BY 09:18 THE SHIITES AND THE SUNNIS ALIKE. SO TO ASSOCIATE HIM WITH, 09:23 YOU KNOW, HAMAS AND HEZBOLLAH AND THE TERRORISTS IS JUST--AND 09:27 AL QAEDA IS JUST ABSURD. 09:27 >> AND I WANT TO MAKE IT PLAIN 09:30 FOR THE SAKE OF THE AUDIENCE. 09:32 YOU'RE ABSOLUTELY DEAD OPPOSED TO EXTREMISTS. 09:35 >> OH, THERE'S NO QUESTION. 09:37 >> MUSLIMS, CHRISTIANS, CATHOLICS, PROTESTANTS. 09:40 >> ABSOLUTELY. VIOLENCE IN THE NAME OF RELIGION IS-- 09:44 >> AND YOU'RE UTTERLY OPPOSED TO TORTURE. 09:46 I'VE HEARD YOU ON THIS BEFORE. 09:47 >> YES, WE HAVE TALKED ABOUT TORTURE. 09:50 TORTURE'S WRONG. 09:51 >> AND TORTURE IS EVIL. 09:52 >> IT IS. 09:53 AND CHRISTIAN LEADERS OUGHT TO BE SPEAKING OUT MORE. 09:56 SOME CHRISTIAN LEADERS HAVE SPOKEN IN FAVOR OF TORTURE. 09:59 >> YEAH, THAT'S OUTRAGEOUS. 10:01 >> IT IS. YOU KNOW, WHO WOULD JESUS TORTURE? 10:04 >> IT'S OUTRAGEOUS. 10:05 YOU KNOW WHY SOME CHRISTIANS BELIEVE IN TORTURE? 10:08 >> I THINK THE REASON SOME CHRISTIANS BELIEVE IN TORTURE 10:10 IS BECAUSE THEY BELIEVE JESUS ONLY DIED FOR THEM. 10:13 >> OH, BUT THERE'S ANOTHER REASON, ALAN. 10:14 >> OKAY, TELL ME. 10:15 >> THEY THINK GOD IS THE TORTURER. 10:17 >> WELL, THAT'S TRUE. 10:18 >> THEY THINK GOD IS THE TORTURER-IN-CHIEF BECAUSE OF THE 10:22 DOCTRINE OF THE IMMORTALITY OF THE SOUL AND THE ETERNAL 10:27 DAMNATION OF THE WICKED. 10:29 THEY SAY THAT GOD IS GOING TO BURN PEOPLE. 10:32 NOW PEOPLE ARE GOING TO CALL ME UP AND THEY'RE GOING TO SAY, 10:35 "BUT THAT'S WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS." 10:36 NO, THAT'S NOT WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS AT ALL. 10:38 IT'S WHAT YOU THINK THE BIBLE SAYS, MY BELOVED FRIEND. 10:41 >> IT SAYS THEY'RE GOING TO BURN UP. 10:43 IT DOESN'T SAY THEY'RE GOING TO KEEP BURNING. 10:44 >> BUT THE IDEA IS TAUGHT BY MILLIONS OF CHRISTIANS THAT 10:47 PEOPLE ARE GOING TO BE BURNED, THEY'RE GOING TO BE TORTURED, 10:52 AND AFTER 10 MINUTES, THEY'RE GOING TO BE BURNT 10:55 FOR ANOTHER 10 MINUTES AND THEIR BLOOD IS GOING TO BE BOILING 10:59 AND THEIR BRAIN IS GOING TO BE BOILING AND THEY'RE GOING TO BE 11:02 SCREAMING AND IT'S GOING TO GO ON FOR 100 YEARS, 1,000 YEARS, 11:08 A MILLION YEARS, A BILLION YEARS. 11:11 IT ALMOST DRIVES THE MIND INTO-- >> AND WHAT WE DON'T REALIZE 11:17 IS THAT WE HAVE MADE THE ATHEISTS BY THAT DOCTRINE. 11:22 >> YES, WE HAVE. 11:23 >> BECAUSE THE ATHEISTS HAVE ENOUGH SENSE TO REALIZE THAT 11:26 IF THAT'S WHAT GOD IS LIKE, THEY REALLY AREN'T INTERESTED IN 11:29 HAVING ANYTHING TO DO WITH HIM. 11:31 >> IF THAT'S WHAT GOD IS LIKE, I HATE HIM. 11:34 >> FOR GOOD REASON. 11:35 >> YEAH, FOR GOOD REASON. 11:36 >> YOU KNOW, JOHN, I DID A DEBATE. 11:37 I DID A TELEVISION DEBATE-- >> THESE PEOPLE HAVE BRED--THESE 11:40 PEOPLE HAVE BRED ATHEISTS. 11:41 >> DID A TV DEBATE YEARS AGO ON THIS TOPIC OF HELL. 11:46 AND I DECIDED, YOU KNOW, IF WE CAME OUT ON A CHRISTIAN 11:50 AUDIENCE AND SAID, "WE DON'T BELIEVE IN HELL," 11:52 WE'RE GOING TO LOSE OUR LISTENERS. 11:54 SO I CAME OUT AND WE'RE GONNA LOSE THE DEBATE. 11:57 I CAME OUT AND I SAID, "YOU KNOW, THE DIFFERENCE 11:59 BETWEEN OUR POSITIONS IS WE BELIEVE HELL IS HOTTER THAN 12:02 YOU DO." 12:03 >> OH, WE BELIEVE IN A REAL HOT HELL. WE DO. 12:05 >> IT'S SO HOT, IT BURNS YOU UP. 12:06 >> YES, IT DOES. 12:08 >> AND THAT WAY WE GOT PEOPLE, YOU KNOW, I THINK, LISTENING. 12:11 >> THE BIBLE TEACHES HELL, BUT IT DOESN'T TEACH A GOD WHO 12:15 PROLONGS LIFE TO TORTURE PEOPLE. 12:17 >> YOU KNOW, JOHN-- >> THAT'S WHY SOME OF THE 12:20 CHRISTIANS ARE INTO TORTURE. 12:21 >> NEITHER MY MOM OR MY DAD WERE RELIGIOUS PEOPLE. 12:25 NEITHER ONE OF 'EM EVER BELIEVED IN JESUS. 12:27 NEITHER ONE OF THEM ARE PARTICULARLY GOOD CANDIDATES FOR 12:30 THE KINGDOM FROM, YOU KNOW--NOW, WE'RE NOT TO JUDGE AND, 12:34 YOU KNOW, I CERTAINLY-- >> AND IT'S NOT OVER YET. 12:37 >> I WOULD CERTAINLY HOPE AND PRAY, YOU KNOW, THAT MAYBE GOD 12:40 SEES SOMETHING THAT I'M NOT AWARE OF, BUT, YOU KNOW, 12:44 I'M COMFORTED WITH THE KNOWLEDGE THAT EVEN IF THEY'RE GONNA MISS 12:48 OUT, THEY'RE GONNA BE ALLOWED TO REST IN PEACE. 12:54 THEY'RE NOT GONNA BE--GOD'S NOT GONNA TORTURE 'EM. 12:56 EVEN IF THEY CAN'T BE INCLUDED IN THE KINGDOM, 12:59 THEY'RE GONNA BE ALLOWED TO REST IN THE GRAVE. 13:03 THEY'RE NOT GONNA BE SUBJECTED TO TORTURE. 13:05 THEY DON'T DESERVE THAT. 13:06 >> YOU KNOW, THE MOST WONDERFUL TEXT IN THE BIBLE FOR ME AND FOR 13:10 MILLIONS OF MY VIEWERS TODAY IS GOOD OLD JOHN 3:16. 13:15 "FOR GOD SO LOVED THE WORLD THAT HE GAVE HIS ONLY SON SO THAT 13:19 WHOEVER BELIEVES IN HIM SHALL NOT PERISH, BUT HAVE EVERLASTING 13:25 LIFE." 13:26 IF I AM SCREAMING IN AN ETERNALLY BURNING HELL 13:30 AND I'M ALIVE AND MY BLOOD IS BUBBLING AND I'M GOING 13:34 THROUGH EXCRUCIATING AGONY, I HAVEN'T PERISHED. 13:39 >> NOPE, THAT'S TRUE. 13:41 BUT MORE TO THE POINT, ARE YOU GOING TO BE ENJOYING 13:46 THE GLORIES OF HEAVEN IF YOUR LOVED ONES ARE BEING TORTURED 13:51 IN THE FIRES OF HELL? 13:53 >> THEY'RE GONNA LOOK OVER THE SIDE AND SAY, 13:54 "THERE'S GRANDPA DOWN THERE. 13:56 YOU KNOW, YOU'RE GETTING WHAT YOU DESERVED." 13:58 NOW THIS IS AN EVIL CONCEPT. 14:01 NOW LET'S GET BACK TO THIS MOSQUE. 14:04 WE'RE TALKING ABOUT WHY SOME PEOPLE BELIEVE IN TORTURE. 14:07 IT'S BECAUSE OF THEIR MISCONCEPTION OF GOD, BUT-- 14:10 >> THE IMAM WHO'S DOING THIS CULTURAL CENTER IS DOING EXACTLY 14:14 WHAT THOUGHTFUL AMERICANS OUGHT TO HOPE FOR, 14:17 WHICH IS TO BUILD A COMMUNITY CENTER TO BRING THE FAITHS 14:21 TOGETHER, TO BUILD UNDERSTANDING AMONG JEWS AND CHRISTIANS 14:24 AND MUSLIMS. 14:25 >> BUT PEOPLE ARE GOING TO SAY TO YOU, RIGHTLY OR WRONGLY, 14:29 YOU AND I WOULD THINK PERHAPS WRONGLY. 14:32 THEY'RE GOING TO SAY, BUT THIS COULD BECOME A POTENTIAL CENTER 14:35 FOR TERRORISM. 14:38 AND HERE MUSLIM PEOPLE BROUGHT DOWN THE TWIN TOWERS. 14:42 THEY KILLED THOUSANDS AND THOUSANDS OF AMERICANS, TOOK THE 14:46 LIVES OF SOME OF OUR LOVED ONES. 14:49 AND NOW WITH NO SENSITIVITY AT ALL, THEY'RE GOING TO PUT UP 14:53 A MUSLIM PLACE. 14:56 AND SOME ARE GOING TO SAY ABOUT THIS, "THEY'RE REALLY CLAIMING 15:01 VICTORY. 15:02 'WE BROUGHT DOWN THE TWIN TOWERS. NOW WE'RE BUILDING 15:05 A MOSQUE AND WE'RE CLAIMING VICTORY.'" 15:08 >> WHAT YOU'RE EXPRESSING AND WHAT WE'RE HEARING FROM 15:10 AMERICANS WHO ARE OPPOSED IS WE'RE HEARING FEAR. 15:14 >> YEAH. 15:15 >> AND YOU KNOW-- >> BUT THAT'S UNDERSTANDABLE. 15:17 >> BUT LET'S PUT THIS--LET'S PUT THIS IN THE LARGER CONTEXT. 15:20 FEAR IS THE ENGINE OF EMPIRE. 15:23 EVERY EMPIRE NEEDS TO MOBILIZE ITS SUPPORT AND ITS CITIZENS 15:28 THROUGH FEAR. 15:29 COMMUNISM IS DEAD. 15:32 IT USED TO BE, YOU KNOW, THE ONLY GOOD RED IS A DEAD RED. 15:36 AND WE'D MOBILIZE FEAR OF COMMUNISM. 15:39 NOW WE HAVE TO HAVE THIS LARGER-THAN-LIFE ENEMY CALLED 15:44 DANGEROUS, YOU KNOW, ISLAMIC TERRORISTS. 15:46 AND ALL--THE ONLY GOOD MUSLIM IS A DEAD MUSLIM. 15:49 >> NO, NO, NO. 15:51 I COULDN'T BELIEVE THAT. 15:53 I DON'T KNOW IF TOO MANY AMERICANS WOULD TAKE THAT 15:55 VIEWPOINT, BUT WE ARE DEALING WITH PEOPLE WHO HAVE KILLED US. 16:00 DID YOU KNOW THAT IN THE SUDAN MUSLIMS HAVE BURNED DOWN 16:05 1,000 CHURCHES? 16:08 A THOUSAND CHURCHES. 16:11 AND THEY HAVE KILLED THOUSANDS AND THOUSANDS, SOME WOULD SAY 16:14 HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF CHRISTIANS. 16:18 >> THERE HAS BEEN CONFLICT IN SUDAN AND OTHER PLACES. 16:22 INDONESIA, ABSOLUTELY. 16:24 SO WOULDN'T THAT SUGGEST THAT WE NEED TO NURTURE THOSE ISLAMIC 16:30 FORCES THAT ARE WILLING TO MAKE THEIR PEACE WITH MODERNITY, 16:34 WITH PLURALISM, THAT WE NEED TO HAVE FROM 16:38 THE INSIDE OF ISLAM TO ENCOURAGE THOSE WHO WANT TO LIVE IN PEACE? 16:44 >> AND IT IS TRUE, AS YOU KNOW-- >> THE MODEL FOR THE MOSQUE, 16:48 FOR THE IMAM, IS A PERIOD IN SPANISH HISTORY, 16:52 FOR HUNDREDS OF YEARS BEFORE THE INQUISITION, WHEN JEWS 16:56 AND CHRISTIANS AND MUSLIMS LIVED TOGETHER IN PEACE 16:59 ON THE SPANISH PENINSULA. 17:01 >> AND ALSO THE MUSLIMS PROTECTED CHRISTIANS. 17:06 IN THE DAYS OF THE INQUISITION, WHEN THE CHURCH OF ROME WAS 17:09 KILLING MILLIONS OF PEOPLE BECAUSE THEY THOUGHT GOD WAS THE 17:13 TORTURER-IN-CHIEF, CHRISTIANS FOUND SANCTUARY 17:18 IN MUSLIM COUNTRIES. 17:20 >> WE NEED TO REALIZE THAT IF WE HAVE A GOSPEL ATTITUDE, 17:26 WE DON'T HAVE ANY ENEMIES. 17:28 NOW THAT'S NOT TO SAY THAT THE UNITED STATES DOESN'T HAVE 17:29 ENEMIES, BUT LET'S DEAL WITH 17:32 THOSE ENEMIES FOR WHO THEY ARE AND NOT JUST PAINT WITH A BROAD 17:35 BRUSH THAT A BILLION MUSLIMS IN THIS WORLD ARE THE ENEMIES 17:39 OF THE UNITED STATES. 17:40 WHAT THE FEAR DOES IS IT ACTUALLY CREATES MORE ENEMIES 17:44 OF THE NATION. 17:45 >> NOW SABBATH-KEEPING CHRISTIAN, WE KEEP THE SABBATH 17:50 OF THE BIBLE, THE SAME SABBATH THAT THE JEWS HAVE KEPT 17:53 FOR THOUSANDS OF YEARS. 17:55 >> SAME SABBATH THAT JESUS KEPT. 17:56 >> YEAH, THE SAME SABBATH THAT ALL THE BIBLE WRITERS KEPT, 17:59 HALLELUJAH. 18:00 ALAN, YOU BELIEVE IT'S OKAY TO BUILD THIS MOSQUE. 18:05 DOES THE CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA--YOU 18:08 KNOW, IT'S GREAT TO BE AN AMERICAN AND SAY, 18:11 "WE BELIEVE IN THE CONSTITUTION. 18:14 YOU KNOW, WE LOVE THE CONSTITUTION. 18:16 WE SALUTE THE FLAG," UNTIL THE FLAG 18:18 AND THE CONSTITUTION TELL US 18:21 SOMETHING WE DON'T WANT TO HEAR. 18:24 >> RIGHT. WELL-- >> DO MUSLIMS HAVE A 18:26 CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT TO BUILD A MOSQUE IN NEW YORK CITY? 18:31 >> THAT'S AN EASY QUESTION. 18:33 YES! ABSOLUTELY THEY DO. 18:35 THEY BOUGHT THE BUILDING FAIR AND SQUARE. 18:37 >> TELL ME MORE. 18:40 >> THEY BOUGHT THE BUILDING. 18:41 IT'S A COUPLE OF BLOCKS NORTH OF GROUND ZERO. 18:44 AND HONESTLY, EVERYBODY WHO GOES TO GROUND ZERO, IF YOU DIDN'T 18:47 KNOW THAT BUILDING WAS THERE, YOU'D NEVER SEE IT. 18:50 >> I UNDERSTAND IT'S GOING TO BE A BIG THING. 18:52 >> WELL, THERE ARE OTHER BIG THINGS ALL AROUND. 18:55 THAT'S THE WAY MANHATTAN IS. 18:58 >> I THINK IT WOULD BE A GREAT PLACE TO LIVE. 19:00 IT'S THE MOST EXCITING CITY IN THE WORLD. 19:03 >> IT IS. IT'S A GREAT--IT'S A GREAT CITY. 19:05 >> IT'S THE GREATEST--NEW YORK IS NOT A CITY. 19:11 >> LOOK, BACK TO THE--EVEN OUR FOUNDING FATHERS RECOGNIZED THAT 19:16 OUR NATION WOULD BE A HOSPITABLE PLACE FOR MUSLIMS, THAT THIS 19:20 NATION WELCOMED PEOPLE OF ALL FAITHS AND EVERYONE IS TREATED 19:24 AS EQUAL IN THE EYES OF THE LAW. 19:26 >> WHAT DID THEY SAY? 19:27 >> WELL, THAT'S WHAT THEY SAY. 19:29 THERE'S SOME LETTERS CIRCULATING ON THE INTERNET RIGHT NOW-- 19:32 >> NO, NO, YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT--YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT 19:35 THE FOUNDING FATHERS. 19:36 WHAT DID THE FOUNDING FATHERS SAY ABOUT SIMILAR ISSUES 19:41 TO BUILDING THIS MOSQUE? 19:43 WHAT DID THE FOUNDING FATHERS SAY ABOUT THE RIGHTS OF PEOPLE 19:47 TO WORSHIP GOD ACCORDING TO THE DICTATES OF THEIR CONSCIENCES? 19:50 >> MANY, MANY OF THEM SPECIFICALLY RECOGNIZED THAT THE 19:53 PRINCIPLES OF RELIGIOUS LIBERTY THAT WERE BEING ENACTED IN THE 19:56 FIRST AMENDMENT WOULD ENCOMPASS MUSLIMS AS WELL AS JEWS AS WELL 20:01 AS CHRISTIANS. 20:02 BECAUSE THE PREVAILING TENDENCY BEFORE THE CONSTITUTION WAS 20:07 TO RESTRICT LIBERTIES FOR PROTESTANTS OR, IN SOME CASES, 20:11 MAYBE TO EXTEND IT TO CATHOLICS AS THEY DID IN MARYLAND, 20:15 BUT IT WAS VERY NARROW AND RESTRICTIVE AND WHEN THEY 20:19 STARTED TO OPEN UP AND SAY, "NO, WE'RE GONNA PROTECT 20:21 RELIGIOUS LIBERTY FOR EVERYBODY," THEY WERE THINKING 20:24 ABOUT JEWS AND MUSLIMS IN PARTICULAR. 20:26 >> OF COURSE. 20:28 I HAD AN AMAZING EXPERIENCE SOME TIME AGO IN BEVERLY HILLS, ALAN. 20:33 I HAVE--SOME OF MY BEST FRIENDS ARE MY DOCTORS. 20:38 I HAVE A NUMBER OF--YEAH. 20:39 AND THESE DOCTORS ARE MY FRIENDS AND THEY TAKE CARE OF ME. 20:43 I GET ON VERY WELL WITH THEM. 20:45 WHEN I GO AND SEE MY OLD FRIEND--HE'S NOT OLD. 20:48 BUT DOCTOR JACK GINDI, WE TALK THEOLOGY. 20:53 WE EVEN TALK ABOUT THE BIBLE AND WE TALK ABOUT JESUS 20:56 AND I GO TO ANOTHER JEWISH FRIEND, A DOCTOR, 21:00 AND HE SAYS TO ME AFTER HE'S CHECKED ME OUT, 21:03 AND HE'S A GREAT DOCTOR, HE SAYS, "YOU HAVE FORGOTTEN." 21:06 I SAY, "NO, I HAVEN'T FORGOTTEN." 21:09 HE SAYS, "WELL, CAN WE DO THIS NOW?" 21:12 I SAY, "NOW YOU'VE GOT TO TELL ME." 21:13 I KNOW WHAT HE WANTS. 21:14 HE SAYS, "SAY A PRAYER FOR ME." 21:18 SO I PUT MY ARM AROUND HIM. 21:19 WE HAVE A PRAYER TOGETHER. 21:21 SO I HAVE GREAT FRIENDS AMONG THE JEWISH PEOPLE, 21:24 WONDERFUL DOCTORS. 21:26 BUT I HAVE A GREAT DOCTOR DOWN IN BEVERLY HILLS, 21:28 WHO RUNS A BIG HEART CLINIC. 21:30 AND BECAUSE I WANT TO TAKE CARE OF MYSELF SO I CAN DO GOD'S 21:33 WORK, I GO AND HAVE A CHECKOUT WITH DR. NORMAN LEPOR. 21:37 HE'S A GREAT CARDIOLOGIST, ONE OF THE GREATEST IN THE 21:39 WORLD. 21:40 ALAN, I WENT TO SEE THIS JEWISH BROTHER OF YOURS, 21:44 THIS JEWISH BROTHER OF MINE, AND I SAID TO HIM, "I WANT YOU 21:48 TO KNOW, DR. LEPOR, I'VE PAID YOU A GREAT COMPLIMENT. 21:52 I'VE JUST DRIVEN 50 MILES TO COME AND SEE YOU. 21:56 I'VE DRIVEN FROM THOUSAND OAKS DOWN HERE TO BEVERLY HILLS." 22:00 HE SAID, "THANK YOU SO VERY MUCH." HE SAID, 22:03 "THE PRIME MINISTER OF MALAYSIA HAS JUST FLOWN 7,000 MILES." 22:09 THEN WHEN WE GOT-- >> IT'S EASIER TO FLY FROM 22:11 MALAYSIA THAN TO DEAL WITH SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA TRAFFIC 22:14 SOMETIMES. 22:15 >> MUCH EASIER. I'D RATHER FLY. 22:20 HE SAID, "YOU KNOW CEDARS-SINAI HOSPITAL HERE?" 22:23 I SAID, "YES, I KNOW IT. 22:24 I KNOW OF IT. 22:25 I'VE NEVER BEEN THERE." 22:26 BUT YOU KNOW OF CEDARS-SINAI. 22:28 IT'S A GREAT JEWISH CENTER. 22:30 HE SAID, "DO YOU KNOW WHY WE BUILT CEDARS-SINAI?" 22:35 I SAID, "THE SAME REASON THAT THE ADVENTISTS BUILD LOMA LINDA 22:39 AND OTHER PEOPLE BUILT HOSPITALS. 22:41 WHAT'S THE BIG DEAL THAT YOU BUILD A HOSPITAL?" 22:44 HE SAID, "BECAUSE WE WERE NOT ALLOWED TO PRACTICE MEDICINE 22:50 IN AMERICA." 22:51 I SAID, "ARE YOU PUTTING ME ON?" 22:56 HE SAID, "NO." 22:57 HE SAID, "I THINK I CAN TALK TO YOU." 22:58 AND THIS MAN'S A GREAT GUY. 23:00 HE'S JUST THE NICEST GUY. 23:00 I WOULD SAY HE WAS A CHRISTIAN 23:03 GENTLEMAN, EXCEPT THAT HE'S NOT A CHRISTIAN. 23:06 HE'S JEWISH, BUT YOU KNOW WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT. 23:08 HE'S A WONDERFUL MAN. 23:09 HE SAID, "WE WERE NOT EVEN ALLOWED TO STUDY IT AT COLLEGES 23:16 AND UNIVERSITIES THAT PRODUCED DOCTORS." 23:19 >> YOU KNOW, JOHN-- >> HERE'S A RELIGIOUS LIBERTY 23:22 THING. 23:23 >> MOST AMERICANS DON'T REALIZE HOW PERVASIVE DISCRIMINATION 23:28 IN EDUCATION AND EMPLOYMENT--YOU KNOW, ALAN DERSHOWITZ WRITES 23:32 THAT AFTER CLERKING AT THE UNITED STATES SUPREME COURT, 23:36 NONE OF THE GENTILE LAW FIRMS IN NEW YORK CITY WOULD HIRE HIM. 23:40 >> IT'S AMAZING, ISN'T IT? 23:41 >> AND HERE HE IS, YOU KNOW, TOP OF HIS CLASS 23:43 AT HARVARD LAW SCHOOL, CLERKING FOR U.S. SUPREME COURT, 23:47 AND HE CAN'T BEG, BORROW, OR STEAL A JOB IN A PROTESTANT 23:48 LAW FIRM. 23:52 >> WELL, WE CALL THIS BIGOTRY. 23:54 >> IT IS. AND IT'S--YOU KNOW, IT'S THE DARK SIDE OF AMERICAN 23:59 CHRISTIANITY. 24:00 AND FRANKLY, IT IS NOT BECOMING A CHRISTIAN TO SHOW ANY SORT 24:06 OF BIGOTRY OR HOSTILITY TO PEOPLE OF ANOTHER FAITH. 24:09 >> YEARS AGO, I KNEW AN AUSTRALIAN, AN OLD MAN BY THE 24:12 NAME OF MR. MUELLER. 24:14 AND HE'D BEEN A LUTHERAN. 24:15 AND HE BECAME AN ADVENTIST CHRISTIAN. 24:18 AND I SAID TO HIM, "WHAT WAS YOUR RELIGION? 24:21 HOW WERE YOU BROUGHT UP?" 24:22 HE SAID, "I WAS A BY-GOTED LUTHERAN." 24:25 >> A WHAT? 24:26 >> BY-GOTED. 24:27 I THOUGHT, "WELL, THERE'S LUTHERANS AND I THOUGHT THIS 24:30 IS A PARTICULAR BRAND. 24:31 SO WHEN I INTRODUCED HIM TO SOME OF MY FRIENDS, I SAID, 24:34 "MY FRIEND HERE, MR. MUELLER, WAS BROUGHT AS A BY-GOTED 24:39 LUTHERAN. BY-GOTED." 24:43 AN OLD GERMAN MAN, HE MEANT BIGOTED. 24:47 BY-GOTED. 24:49 AND SO THERE ARE BY-GOTED ADVENTISTS, BY-GOTED CATHOLICS, 24:56 BY-GOTED LUTHERANS, BY-GOTED JEWS, AND QUITE A FEW 25:02 BY-GOTED MUSLIMS. 25:05 THE WHOLE LOT. 25:07 WE NEED TO ESTABLISH A CULTURE WHERE BIGOTRY IS LAID ASIDE 25:14 AND WE ACCEPT PEOPLE FOR WHAT THEY ARE. 25:17 DO YOU BELIEVE THAT? 25:18 >> ABSOLUTELY. 25:19 LOOK, WE'RE FIGHTING A WAR ON TERRORISM. 25:22 >> YES, WE ARE. 25:23 >> BUT TERRORISM IS BUILT ON FEAR AND HATRED. 25:28 THE ONLY WAY TO COMBAT THIS IS WITH THE GENUINE AMERICAN 25:33 VALUES OF INCLUSIVENESS, OF RESPECT FOR EVERYONE 25:37 REGARDLESS OF THEIR BELIEFS. 25:39 THE ONLY WAY TO PENETRATE ISLAMIC CULTURE IS FOR THEM 25:43 TO SEE US PRACTICING OUR VALUES AS AMERICANS AND FOR THEM TO BUY 25:49 INTO THESE VALUES OF AN INCLUSIVE SOCIETY. 25:53 OTHERWISE, AS LONG AS IT'S US AGAINST THEM, WE'RE GONNA BE 25:58 HAVING THIS ENDLESS BATTLE AGAINST DANGEROUS TERRORISTS. 26:01 >> WHAT IS THE GREATNESS OF AMERICA ANYHOW IF IT IS NOT HER 26:06 TOLERANCE AND HER SPLENDID CONSTITUTION AND THE AMENDMENTS 26:11 THAT GUARANTEE THE SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE AND THE 26:15 RIGHT OF EVERY PERSON TO WORSHIP GOD AS HE BELIEVES HE OUGHT TO? 26:20 THIS IS WHAT THE FLAG STANDS FOR. 26:22 >> IT IS, BUT WHEN WE TOSS ASIDE OUR VALUES, OUR FREEDOM, 26:28 OUR CONSTITUTION IN THE NAME OF SELF-PRESERVATION, YOU KNOW, 26:34 IN THE NAME OF SECURITY AND PATRIOTISM, 26:37 AND WE PROJECT OUR MILITARY MIGHT AND THE ATTITUDE THAT 26:42 MIGHT MAKES RIGHT, WE COMPROMISE OUR VERY CHARACTER 26:46 AS A NATION. 26:48 >> SO, MY FRIEND, WE BELIEVE IN FREEDOM OF RELIGION. 26:51 WE BELIEVE IN THE SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE. 26:54 WE BELIEVE IN THE AMERICA THAT SAYS, "YOU'RE WELCOME HERE AND 27:00 WE LOVE YOU." 27:01 AND WE BELIEVE IN THE AMERICA THAT GIVES PEOPLE THE RIGHT 27:05 TO BE WHAT GOD WANTS THEM TO BE ACCORDING TO THE DICTATES 27:11 OF THEIR CONSCIENCES. 27:13 WE'RE GONNA HAVE A LITTLE BREAK AND THIS LITTLE BREAK IS 27:16 IMPORTANT BECAUSE WE'VE GOT A SUPER IMPORTANT MESSAGE FOR YOU. 27:17 AND THEN I'M GOING TO BE BACK 27:22 WITH MY FRIEND, ATTORNEY ALAN REINACH. 27:24 AND WE'RE GOING TO BE TALKING ABOUT GAY MARRIAGE 27:28 AND RELIGIOUS FREEDOM. 27:29 STAY WITH US. 27:34 >> HELLO, FRIEND. 27:35 I'M JOHN CARTER WITH A VERY SPECIAL MESSAGE JUST FOR YOU. 27:39 I BELIEVE THAT GOD HAS CALLED YOU AND ME TO TELL THE WORLD 27:44 ABOUT THE LORD JESUS CHRIST. 27:46 YOU KNOW, FRIEND, WHEN I TURN IN MY BIBLE 27:48 TO REVELATION 14, I READ THERE OF A WORLDWIDE 27:54 PROCLAMATION OF THE GOSPEL IN THE SETTING OF SOME VERY 27:58 AMAZING TRUTHS. 28:00 AND THAT IS WHY THE CARTER REPORT 28:01 RIGHT NOW IS WORKING IN CHINA. 28:03 ISN'T THAT AMAZING? 28:05 ALSO IN INDIA. 28:07 WE'RE TELECASTING IN INDIA. 28:09 AND VERY SHORTLY, WE'RE GOING TO AFRICA. 28:12 AND WHEN WE GO TO AFRICA, THE MESSAGE OF CHRIST IS GOING 28:15 TO BE TELECAST RIGHT ACROSS THAT GREAT CONTINENT 28:19 AND MILLIONS OF PEOPLE ARE GOING TO HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY 28:22 TO COME TO THE KNOWLEDGE OF CHRIST. 28:25 I'M ASKING TODAY FOR YOUR HELP AND YOUR PARTNERSHIP. 28:31 I WANT YOU TO WRITE TO ME, PLEASE. 28:33 AND I WANT YOU TO SUPPORT US IN THIS WORLDWIDE EVANGELISM. 28:39 AND WHEN YOU DO SO, I WANT TO SEND YOU TWO DVDS. 28:44 TWO DVDS. 28:48 ONE IS ABOUT HOW TO SURVIVE THE COMING FINANCIAL MELTDOWN 28:53 AND THE SECOND ONE IS ABOUT THE HEALTH CRISIS THAT IS JUST ABOUT 28:57 BLOWING AMERICA APART, BUT IT CONCERNS MY FRIENDS 29:02 ALSO IN AUSTRALIA. 29:04 SO PLEASE SUPPORT US IN THIS GREAT WORK, 29:07 AND WHEN YOU SUPPORT US, I'LL SEND YOU THESE TWO DVDS. 29:12 WRITE TO ME, JOHN CARTER, POST OFFICE BOX 1900, 29:16 THOUSAND OAKS, CALIFORNIA, 91358. 29:19 IN AUSTRALIA, WRITE TO ME AT TERRIGAL. 29:22 SUPPORT US IN THIS GREAT OUTREACH TO THE WORLD. 29:27 LET CHRIST BE KNOWN AND MAY GOD RICHLY BLESS YOU. 29:31 WRITE TO ME PLEASE, TODAY. 29:37 >> WELCOME BACK, MY FRIEND. 29:39 WE'RE TALKING ABOUT GAY MARRIAGE AND RELIGIOUS LIBERTY. 29:43 AND MY SPECIAL GUEST IS ATTORNEY ALAN REINACH, 29:46 WHO IS THE EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF THE CHURCH STATE COUNCIL 29:50 RIGHT HERE IN SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA. 29:54 ALAN, IT'S GREAT TO HAVE YOU WITH US. 29:56 >> IT'S GREAT TO BE WITH YOU, JOHN. 29:57 >> ALWAYS GREAT TO HAVE A NEW YORKER. 30:00 >> WELL, HAPPY TO DO IT. 30:01 >> WHO'S GOT CONTACTS IN WALL STREET. 30:03 >> NOT TOO MANY ANYMORE, BUT THAT'S WHERE MY 30:06 FAMILY HISTORY IS. 30:09 >> "WHAT'S SO BAD WITH GAY MARRIAGE?" SOME PEOPLE 30:11 WOULD ASK. 30:12 NOW, YOU KNOW, TODAY IN THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, 30:16 IN AUSTRALIA, OTHER PLACES, POLITICAL CORRECTNESS IS SO 30:22 PREVALENT THAT YOU'RE NOT ALLOWED TO HAVE AN OPINION 30:24 ANYMORE. 30:26 YOU KNOW, IF YOU WANT TO BE POLITICALLY CORRECT, 30:29 YOU'VE GOT TO BELIEVE THAT EVERYTHING AND EVERYBODY IS 30:32 OKAY. WHAT'S SO BAD ABOUT GAY MARRIAGE? 30:35 >> I WISH WE HAD MORE THAN HALF 30:38 AN HOUR. 30:39 YOU KNOW, SAME-SEX MARRIAGE POSES THE MOST SEVERE THREAT TO 30:44 THE SURVIVAL OF THE INSTITUTIONS OF THE CHURCH THAT WE HAVE EVER 30:48 FACED. 30:49 >> AND MAYBE THE INSTITUTIONS OF THE STATE. 30:51 >> WELL, TO THE SURVIVAL OF OUR CIVILIZATION AND OUR SOCIETY 30:56 PERHAPS, BUT WE'VE ALREADY HAD RELIGIOUS INSTITUTIONS CLOSE 31:01 BECAUSE THEY REFUSED TO GO ALONG WITH THE NEW ORTHODOXY 31:06 OF NON-DISCRIMINATION AGAINST PEOPLE OF THE, YOU KNOW, 31:10 SAME-SEX--OF HOMOSEXUALITY. 31:13 >> LET'S MAKE IT VERY PLAIN. 31:15 WE BELIEVE THE BIBLE TEACHES THAT WE SHOULD LOVE EVERYBODY. 31:18 WE BELIEVE THIS. 31:19 >> ABSOLUTELY. 31:19 >> WE BELIEVE IN THE GOLDEN RULE THAT JESUS GAVE US. 31:24 DO UNTO OTHERS AS YOU WOULD HAVE THEM DO UNTO YOU. 31:26 >> AT THE CHURCH STATE COUNCIL, WE WALK A VERY FINE LINE IN 31:30 TERMS OF UPHOLDING THE RIGHTS OF BELIEVERS TO LIVE ACCORDING 31:34 TO THEIR OWN BIBLICAL FAITH WHILE ALSO RESPECTING THE RIGHTS 31:40 OF GAY PEOPLE TO LIVE ACCORDING TO THEIR OWN VALUES WITHOUT 31:44 SUFFERING DISCRIMINATION. 31:46 SO THERE IS A--THERE'S A LIVE AND LET LIVE. 31:48 >> SO YOU DON'T BELIEVE IN DISCRIMINATING AGAINST GAYS. 31:51 >> ABSOLUTELY NOT. 31:53 BUT AT THE SAME TIME, WE WANT-- >> NEITHER DO WE. 31:56 >> WE WANT THE SAME RESPECT FOR OUR OWN BELIEFS AND VALUES AND 32:00 FOR THE CHURCH, THAT WE OUGHT TO HAVE THE RIGHT 32:03 TO LIVE ACCORDING TO OUR BELIEFS. 32:05 AND I DON'T KNOW IF YOU'RE AWARE, JOHN. 32:07 THE U.S. SUPREME COURT HELD EARLIER THIS YEAR THAT A STUDENT 32:13 GROUP THAT WAS CHRISTIAN WAS GUILTY OF DISCRIMINATION SIMPLY 32:18 FOR REQUIRING ITS MEMBERS TO BE CHRISTIAN. 32:21 IT IS NOW REGARDED AS DISCRIMINATORY TO BE CHRISTIAN. 32:26 PERHAPS AN EVEN MORE OUTRAGEOUS DECISION CAME OUT OF 32:29 A U.S. COURT OF APPEALS, A FEDERAL COURT OF APPEALS 32:33 IN D.C., IN OUR NATION'S CAPITAL. THE GOOD CITIZENS OF 32:37 D.C. WERE WANTING TO PUT TO A VOTE OF THE PEOPLE WHETHER 32:42 MARRIAGE SHOULD BE A MAN AND A WOMAN BECAUSE THE 32:44 CITY COUNCIL HAD VOTED IN GAY MARRIAGE IN THE FALL OF 2009. 32:50 SO THEY WANTED A BALLOT INITIATIVE TO PUT THIS BEFORE 32:53 THE PEOPLE. 32:53 SHALL WE RETURN TO MARRIAGE BEING A MAN AND A WOMAN OR LEAVE 32:57 THE CITY COUNCIL'S ACTION THE WAY IT IS? 33:00 THE CITY COUNCIL REFUSED TO LET THAT GO ON THE BALLOT. 33:04 THEY SAID THAT TO VOTE ON MARRIAGE WOULD VIOLATE THE HUMAN 33:07 RIGHTS CHARTER OF THE CITY. 33:09 AND A FEDERAL APPEALS COURT AGREED THAT SIMPLY VOTING ON 33:14 MARRIAGE WAS SO DISCRIMINATORY THAT THE PEOPLE AREN'T EVEN 33:19 ALLOWED TO DO IT. 33:21 MARRIAGE IS DISCRIMINATION. 33:24 DID YOU KNOW THAT, JOHN? 33:25 >> NO, I NEVER KNEW THAT, BUT THERE'S A LOT OF THINGS 33:27 I DON'T KNOW. 33:27 BUT I'M LEARNING SOME THINGS HERE TODAY. 33:30 TELL ME THIS. 33:31 YOU'RE A CHRISTIAN WITH A JEWISH BACKGROUND. 33:33 >> YES, INDEED. 33:34 >> WHY IS MARRIAGE, ORTHODOX MARRIAGE BETWEEN 33:37 A MAN AND A WOMAN THE BEST WAY FOR THE 33:40 CHURCH AND THE WORLD? 33:42 WHY DO YOU BELIEVE THAT, PERSONALLY AS A CHRISTIAN? 33:46 >> WELL, LET'S START WITH WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS. 33:49 >> YOU BELIEVE THE BIBLE. 33:50 >> BEFORE SIN, THE FIRST CHAPTER OF GENESIS, GOD ESTABLISHED 33:55 TWO INSTITUTIONS, SABBATH AND MARRIAGE. 33:59 AND BOTH OF THEM CONSTITUTE THE FOUNDATION OF--FIRST, 34:03 SABBATH IS THE FOUNDATION OF THE SPIRITUAL COMMUNITY. 34:06 IT'S THE TIME FOR THE SPIRITUAL COMMUNITY TO COME TOGETHER TO 34:10 WORSHIP AS A BODY, TO ENCOURAGE ONE ANOTHER. 34:13 AND THEN YOU HAVE MARRIAGE IS THE FOUNDATION OF SOCIETY, 34:17 OF CIVILIZATION. 34:18 >> BEFORE YOU GO ANY FURTHER--YOU'RE ON A ROLL, 34:21 BUT I'M JUST GONNA TRY TO GET IN SOMETHING HERE. 34:23 KARL BARTH. 34:24 YOU KNOW THE GREAT THEOLOGIAN. 34:25 >> SURE. 34:26 >> HE QUOTES SOME OBSCURE THEOLOGIAN IN ONE OF HIS BOOKS. 34:30 AND KARL BARTH MADE THIS STATEMENT, QUOTING THIS MAN. 34:34 "WHEN THE DAY OF GOD, WHEN THE HOLY DAY BECOMES THE DAY OF MAN, 34:40 SOCIETY AND HUMANITY WITHER AWAY AND THE DEMONS RULE." 34:49 SO IF YOU GET RID OF THE SABBATH, SOCIETY BREAKS DOWN. 34:53 MAY I SUGGEST TO YOU TODAY, ALONG YOUR LINE OF THINKING, 34:57 THAT WHEN YOU GET RID OF MARRIAGE, ONE MAN AND ONE WOMAN, 35:01 SOCIETY WILL ALSO BREAK DOWN. 35:04 >> IT WILL BREAK DOWN EVEN--I MEAN, IT IS THE FOUNDATION OF 35:08 SOCIETY. AND, YOU KNOW, WHAT'S REMARKABLE--YOU KNOW, 35:11 WE HAD THIS--THESE VARIOUS LEGAL CHALLENGES HERE IN CALIFORNIA TO 35:16 OUR OWN CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT TO PRESERVE MARRIAGE AS A MAN 35:19 AND A WOMAN KNOWN AS PROPOSITION 8. 35:22 AND JUDGE WALKER ISSUED A VERY LENGTHY DECISION EARLIER THIS 35:27 YEAR AND MADE WHAT I THINK MOST AMERICANS WOULD FIND TO BE 35:31 EXTRAORDINARY CONCLUSIONS THAT HE CLAIMS ARE FACTUAL 35:35 CONCLUSIONS. 35:36 SUCH AS CHILDREN DO NOT NEED TO BE RAISED BY A MALE PARENT 35:42 AND A FEMALE PARENT TO BE WELL-ADJUSTED. 35:45 >> HOW WOULD HE KNOW? 35:46 >> WELL, HE PURPORTS TO TAKE THIS FROM THE RECORD IN THE 35:49 CASE, BUT IN FACT THIS IS REALLY MORE-- 35:53 >> A TREMENDOUS BIAS. 35:55 >> BIAS. HE SAYS, "THE GENETIC RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN A PARENT 36:00 AND A CHILD IS NOT RELATED TO A CHILD'S ADJUSTMENT OUTCOMES." 36:05 >> I SAY AGAIN, HOW WOULD HE KNOW? 36:07 >> WELL, THE AMERICAN ACADEMY OF PEDIATRICIANS IS OPPOSING 36:11 THIS DECISION, SEEKING REVERSAL ON APPEAL AND PARTICULARLY 36:16 CONTENDING THAT CHILDREN DON'T NEED OR BENEFIT FROM BEING 36:21 RAISED BY THEIR OWN HETEROSEXUAL PARENTS. 36:25 PEDIATRICIANS KNOW WHAT CHILDREN NEED AND THEY NEED A FATHER AND 36:30 A MOTHER. 36:31 WE DON'T HAVE TO RELY ON THE BIBLE TO TELL US WHAT BIOLOGY 36:36 OUGHT TO, YOU KNOW, BE OBVIOUS TO EVERYBODY. 36:40 KIDS NEED A FATHER AND A MOTHER. 36:42 AND IF THEY DON'T HAVE IT, THEY SUFFER AND SOCIETY SUFFERS. 36:47 >> DID YOU KNOW IN AFRICA, THEY'VE MADE AN AMAZING 36:51 DISCOVERY. 36:52 IT'S A GREAT COUNTRY. 36:55 THEY'VE DISCOVERED THAT YOUNG BULL ELEPHANTS BECOME ROGUES 36:59 WHEN THE OLD BULL ELEPHANTS ARE KILLED. 37:03 AN AMAZING THING THEY'VE DISCOVERED, THAT THE YOUNG 37:06 ELEPHANTS THAT GO AROUND MARAUDING AND KILLING PEOPLE 37:09 AND BREAKING INTO SETTLEMENTS, THEY'VE DONE THIS BECAUSE THEY 37:14 HAVEN'T HAD AN OLD BULL ELEPHANT TO TAKE CARE OF THEM AND SHOW 37:19 THEM WHAT THEY OUGHT TO DO. 37:22 >> ISN'T THAT FASCINATING? 37:23 >> YEAH, THEY'VE DISCOVERED THIS IN AFRICA THAT YOU'VE GOT TO 37:26 HAVE A MAMA ELEPHANT AND YOU'VE GOT TO HAVE A PAPA ELEPHANT OR 37:30 ELSE YOU'RE GONNA HAVE MISFITS. 37:33 >> LOOK, YOU KNOW, THE REAL ISSUE HERE THAT MOST AMERICANS 37:37 I THINK, JOHN, WHO ARE, YOU KNOW, AT LEAST MODESTLY 37:42 SUPPORTIVE OF GAY MARRIAGE, THE ATTITUDE IS LIVE AND LET 37:46 LIVE. 37:47 YOU KNOW, IF GAYS WANT TO GET MARRIED, IT'S NO SKIN OFF 37:49 MY BACK. 37:50 I DON'T SEE HOW IT'S GOING TO HURT. 37:52 IT'S NOT GONNA HURT ME. 37:53 AND WE DON'T UNDERSTAND THE IMPLICATIONS. 37:56 WE DON'T UNDERSTAND MARRIAGE HISTORICALLY IS A CHILD-CENTERED 38:00 INSTITUTION. 38:02 IT'S ALL ABOUT THE PRESERVATION OF SOCIETY BY PROVIDING 38:07 A HEALTHY, NURTURING ENVIRONMENT FOR CHILDREARING. 38:11 AND THAT'S NOT TO SAY THAT EVERY MARRIAGE IS GONNA PRODUCE 38:14 OFFSPRING OR THAT THERE'S SOMETHING WRONG WITH PEOPLE WHO 38:17 HAVE LOST A SPOUSE OR BEEN DIVORCED GETTING MARRIED, BUT 38:21 THIS IS--THE PURPOSE OF MARRIAGE IS TO PROVIDE A HEALTHY 38:25 ENVIRONMENT FOR RAISING KIDS. 38:27 WHAT THE GAY MARRIAGE MOVEMENT IS REALLY DOING IS CHANGING THAT 38:33 SO THAT MARRIAGE IS NOW SIMPLY A MATTER OF PERSONAL 38:37 GRATIFICATION. 38:38 AND ONCE THE MODEL BECOMES, WELL, THE STATE HAS TO PERMIT 38:43 WHATEVER SOMEBODY WANTS TO DO, WELL, THEN THE STATE HAS NO 38:47 RIGHT TO TELL A BISEXUAL THAT THEY CAN'T MARRY A MAN AND 38:51 A WOMAN AT THE SAME TIME BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT WILL GRATIFY THEM. 38:56 >> THEY'LL DO THIS SOONER OR LATER. 38:58 >> OH, I SUSPECT SOONER. 39:01 BUT THERE'S--BUT, YOU KNOW, THE POINT IS THAT IT REALLY 39:04 DESTROYS THE MORAL FOUNDATION OF SOCIETY AND OF THE FAMILY. 39:10 AND LOOK, IF WE'VE LEARNED ANYTHING FROM THE HISTORY OF THE 39:13 DOWNFALL OF THE ROMAN EMPIRE, IT WAS THE MORAL DEGRADATION 39:17 THAT MADE THE EMPIRE AND THE CIVILIZATION WEAK AND OVERRUN 39:21 BY THE BARBARIANS. 39:22 >> ROME COLLAPSED INWARDLY. 39:24 >> EXACTLY. 39:25 >> YES. 39:26 >> AND, YOU KNOW, IT WAS BRED IN CIRCUSES. 39:28 WELL, WE'VE GOT THE CIRCUSES. 39:31 WE'VE GOT INCREASING SOCIALISM. 39:32 WE'VE GOT AN ENTERTAINMENT CULTURE THAT'S ALL ABOUT 39:35 ME, ME, ME, AND SEXUALITY RUN AMOK IN OUR CULTURE. 39:39 IT'S SAPPING THE LIFE OUT OF OUR CIVILIZATION. 39:42 AND OUR CIVILIZATION WILL COME UNDER JUDGMENT. 39:46 >> THE AMERICAN SOCIETY BECAME GREAT BECAUSE IT WAS BASED 39:50 BASICALLY UPON THE SCRIPTURES. 39:52 I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT A THEOCRACY. 39:56 BUT WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT IS THAT THE PIONEERS OF THIS 39:59 COUNTRY, MOST OF THEM SEEMED TO HAVE A HEALTHY RESPECT FOR 40:03 GOD AND A HEALTHY RESPECT FOR THE TEN COMMANDMENTS. 40:07 >> WELL, WE UNDERSTOOD ANYWAY THAT THE MORAL FOUNDATION 40:11 OF OUR LAWS WAS BASED ON THE LAW OF GOD. 40:14 >> YES, AND THIS HAS BEEN TRADITIONAL WITH GREAT NATIONS 40:18 FOR THOUSANDS OF YEARS. 40:21 AND SO YOU'RE TELLING ME TODAY THAT THE ROMAN EMPIRE WENT 40:24 DOWNHILL BECAUSE OF MORAL DECADENCE. 40:27 AND THIS HAS INVADED AMERICA 40:31 AND EVERYBODY HAS THE RIGHT TO EXPRESS HIS VIEWPOINT EXCEPT THE 40:38 VIEWPOINT THAT WE BELIEVE THAT GOD HAS GIVEN US CERTAIN MORAL 40:43 TRUTHS. 40:44 AND AS CHRISTIANS, WE HAVE THE RIGHT TO DEFEND THOSE MORAL 40:47 TRUTHS AND THE RIGHT TO DEFEND TRADITIONAL MARRIAGE. 40:51 >> YOU KNOW, I DO A LECTURE ENTITLED-- 40:54 >> YOU BELIEVE THAT, DON'T YOU? 40:55 >> YES, JOHN. 40:56 >> WE HAVE THE RIGHT TO DEFEND THAT. 40:58 >> WHAT YOU NEED TO UNDERSTAND IS LEGALLY TODAY, 41:02 AT LEAST HERE IN CALIFORNIA, AND INCREASINGLY INFLUENCING 41:05 IN OTHER STATES, HOMOSEXUALITY HAS BEEN EQUATED WITH RACE. 41:11 AND SO IF YOU DISCRIMINATE ON THE BASIS OF--YOU KNOW, IF YOU 41:16 DISCRIMINATE AGAINST GAYS, WHICH CHRISTIAN BELIEF 41:20 IS CONSIDERED DISCRIMINATORY, IF YOU ARE A CHRISTIAN 41:24 INSTITUTION AND YOU WANT TO EMPLOY PEOPLE OF YOUR OWN FAITH 41:29 TO REPRESENT YOUR VALUES TO THE WORLD AND IF YOU DISCIPLINE 41:33 OR REFUSE TO HIRE A GAY PERSON 'CAUSE THEY DON'T REFLECT YOUR 41:37 FAITH, YOU'RE DISCRIMINATORY AND YOU CAN BE SHUT DOWN. 41:41 >> YOU CAN BE SHUT DOWN? 41:42 >> WELL, IN BOSTON AND SAN FRANCISCO, 41:45 THE ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH WAS FORCED TO CLOSE THEIR 41:49 ADOPTION AGENCIES BECAUSE THE CITY ORDINANCES REQUIRING 41:53 NON-DISCRIMINATION SAID THEY HAD TO SERVE GAY COUPLES THAT SOUGHT 41:58 ADOPTION. 41:58 AND MORALLY, THE CATHOLIC CHURCH DECIDED THEY COULD NOT GO ALONG 42:05 WITH THAT. 42:06 AND SO THEY HAD A CHOICE. 42:09 EITHER SHUT DOWN OR-- >> OR COMPROMISE THEIR 42:12 PRINCIPLES. 42:13 >> OR COMPROMISE THEIR PRINCIPLES. 42:14 >> DID THEY APPEAL TO THE COURTS? 42:16 >> NO, NEITHER ONE OF THESE CASES WENT TO COURT. 42:19 THEY SIMPLY CLOSED DOWN THEIR ADOPTION SERVICES. 42:23 IN BOSTON, CATHOLIC CHARITIES WAS DOING 75% OF THE ADOPTIONS. 42:28 I MEAN, WHO'S HURT? 42:29 THE KIDS ARE THE ONES WHO ARE HURT. 42:31 AND MIND YOU, IF THE STATE POLICY IS TO PERMIT GAYS 42:36 TO ADOPT, WHICH IT HAS EVERY RIGHT TO MAKE THAT POLICY, 42:41 THEN THE STATE CAN FUND AGENCIES THAT WILL PROVIDE THOSE ADOPTION 42:45 SERVICES. 42:46 THEY DON'T HAVE TO TWIST THE ARM OF THE CHURCH TO DO THEIR 42:49 BUSINESS FOR THEM IN VIOLATION OF THEIR OWN CONSCIENCE. 42:53 YOU KNOW, IT'S NOT AN EITHER/OR. 42:57 WE CAN HAVE RELIGIOUS LIBERTY AND STILL RESPECT THE RIGHT 43:01 OF GAY PEOPLE. 43:02 >> WE SHOULD SAY TO THE AUDIENCE WATCHING WE BELIEVE IN LOVING 43:06 GAYS. 43:07 WE BELIEVE THEY'RE CHILDREN OF GOD AND WE BELIEVE IN 43:11 RESPECTING THEM AND WE DO NOT BELIEVE IN DISCRIMINATION. 43:15 BUT WHAT WE ARE SAYING IS THIS: WE BELIEVE THAT WE'VE GOT 43:18 CERTAIN RIGHTS ALSO. 43:21 >> AND THE TRADITIONAL RELIGIOUS BELIEFS OF ISLAM, OF JUDAISM, 43:26 OF CHRISTIANITY ARE ALL THAT MARRIAGE--THAT HUMAN SEXUALITY 43:31 IS EXPRESSED WITHIN THE CONTEXT OF MARRIAGE. 43:33 BUT THIS VIEW IS NOW REGARDED BY THE FEDERAL COURTS AND THE 43:38 CALIFORNIA COURTS AS DISCRIMINATORY. 43:41 >> TELL ME THAT AGAIN BECAUSE THAT'S--YOU KNOW, WE BELIEVE 43:45 THAT WE LIVE IN A LAND OF--WE LIVE IN A LAND OF FREEDOM 43:48 AND YOU'RE TELLING ME NOW THAT THE COURTS ARE GOING TO RESPECT 43:52 THE RIGHTS OF EVERYBODY EXCEPT THOSE WHO BELIEVE THE BIBLE 43:56 IN AMERICA. 43:58 >> INCREASINGLY, EQUALITY AND INCLUSIVENESS MEANS EQUALITY AND 44:03 INCLUSIVENESS FOR EVERYBODY BUT TRADITIONAL RELIGIOUS BELIEFS 44:07 AND THOSE WHO HOLD TO THEM, WHETHER JEWISH, CHRISTIAN, 44:10 OR ISLAMIC. 44:12 SO, FOR EXAMPLE, JOHN-- >> GIVE ME SOME EXAMPLES. 44:15 >> LET'S SAY YOU WERE TEACHING AT ONE OF OUR GREAT 44:18 CHRISTIAN INSTITUTIONS AT PACIFIC UNION COLLEGE, 44:21 SEVENTH DAY ADVENTIST COLLEGE. 44:22 AND, NOW, TO BE CLEAR, I'M NOT ACCUSING ANYBODY OF ANYTHING, 44:26 BUT SUPPOSING THAT YOU WERE TERMINATED BECAUSE YOU WERE 44:30 FOUND GUILTY OF THE GARDEN VARIETY OF SEXUAL MISCONDUCT, 44:34 ADULTERY WITH A WOMAN. 44:36 AND SO YOU WERE TERMINATED. 44:39 YOU WOULD NOT HAVE ANY LEGAL CLAIM TO BRING AGAINST THE 44:43 COLLEGE FOR DISCRIMINATION. 44:44 THE COLLEGE HAS A RIGHT TO HOLD ITS FACULTY TO ITS CHRISTIAN 44:49 STANDARDS REGARDING SEXUAL ACT--YOU KNOW, MARRIAGE 44:53 AND SEXUAL ACTIVITY. 44:54 BUT ON THE OTHER HAND, IF YOU WERE TERMINATED BECAUSE 45:00 YOUR MISCONDUCT WAS NOT WITH A WOMAN, BUT WITH ANOTHER MAN, 45:05 THE WAY THAT THE LAWS ARE GOING, UNDER THE RATIONALE OF WHAT THE 45:09 COURTS ARE SAYING, YOU WOULD BE ABLE TO SUE AND GET 45:12 YOUR JOB BACK. 45:14 AND IF THE SCHOOL DIDN'T CHANGE ITS POLICIES AND PRACTICES, 45:17 IT COULD BE PUT OUT OF BUSINESS BECAUSE YOU WOULD BE MORE EQUAL 45:22 AS A HOMOSEXUAL THAN AS A HETEROSEXUAL. 45:25 >> SO EVERYBODY'S GOT THE RIGHT 45:28 TO HIS OPINION EXCEPT THOSE WHO HAVE GOT AN OPINION THAT'S BASED 45:31 ON THE BIBLE. 45:33 THIS IS GROSS BIGOTRY THEN, ISN'T IT? 45:35 >> IT IS GROSS BIGOTRY. 45:37 >> IT'S BIGOTRY ON BEHALF OF THE MINORITY. 45:40 >> AND UNDERSTAND THAT EVEN THE UNITED STATES SUPREME COURT HELD 45:44 THAT THIS CHRISTIAN STUDENT CLUB, CHRISTIAN LEGAL SOCIETY 45:47 CLUB WAS PROPERLY EXCLUDED AS A STUDENT CLUB BY THE STATE--THE 45:56 LAW SCHOOL'S NONDISCRIMINATION POLICY. 46:00 IT WAS IN VIOLATION OF THE POLICY AND THEREFORE THE SCHOOL 46:04 WAS RIGHT NOT TO RECOGNIZE IT. 46:06 >> HOW DO YOU FEEL ABOUT THIS? 46:08 >> THIS IS A VERY--THIS IS THE MOST SERIOUS RELIGIOUS LIBERTY 46:12 ISSUE THAT WE HAVE FACED BECAUSE IT REALLY THREATENS-- 46:15 >> NOT THE MOSQUE IN NEW YORK. 46:15 >> YOU KNOW, THAT'S AN EMOTIONAL 46:19 ISSUE. THIS IS WHERE THE RUBBER MEETS THE ROAD. 46:22 DO YOU WANT TO HAVE A CHRISTIAN SCHOOL TO SEND YOUR CHILDREN TO, 46:25 A CHRISTIAN UNIVERSITY? 46:27 WHAT ABOUT CHILD CARE? 46:28 WHAT ABOUT, YOU KNOW, SENIOR CITIZEN'S HOMES? 46:34 WHAT ABOUT CHARITIES THAT THE CHRISTIAN CHURCHES OPERATE? 46:37 IF YOU WANT TO HAVE CHRISTIAN ORGANIZATIONS IN SOCIETY, 46:40 THEY'RE BEING THREATENED RIGHT NOW. 46:43 WHAT ABOUT CHRISTIANS IN THE PROFESSIONS? 46:46 PSYCHOLOGISTS, SOCIAL WORKERS. 46:48 DO YOU KNOW THERE ARE TWO CASES PENDING IN THE COURTS RIGHT NOW, 46:51 JOHN, WHERE STUDENTS, GRADUATE STUDENTS WERE KICKED 46:55 OUT OF THEIR PROGRAM BECAUSE THEY WOULD NOT ACCEPT THE 46:59 ORTHODOX VIEW IN THE SCHOOL THAT HOMOSEXUALITY IS MORAL? 47:05 >> SO THEY WERE KICKED OUT. 47:06 >> THEY WERE KICKED OUT. 47:08 >> AND THAT'S NOT DISCRIMINATION, IS IT? 47:09 >> WELL, I THINK IT IS. 47:11 >> OF COURSE IT IS. 47:11 >> AND THEY'RE SUING. 47:12 IN ONE CASE, SOMEONE IN A COUNSELING PROGRAM WAS 47:16 SPECIFICALLY ASSIGNED TO COUNSEL A GAY COUPLE. 47:21 AND WHEN THEY REFUSED TO DO IT, THEY WERE KICKED OUT. 47:24 >> ONE OF THE THINGS THAT PERSONALLY AMAZES ME IS THE 47:28 INTOLERANCE ON THE CAMPUSES OF MANY AMERICAN UNIVERSITIES. 47:33 YOU CAN TALK ABOUT ANYTHING EXCEPT THE THINGS THAT ARE 47:36 POLITICALLY INCORRECT. 47:38 AND THIS TOPIC IS POLITICALLY INCORRECT. 47:42 >> THAT'S TRUE. THERE HAVE BEEN BATTLES OVER SPEECH CODES. 47:46 >> EVERYBODY HAS GOT THE RIGHT, BUT NO, NO, YOU BETTER NOT TALK 47:49 ABOUT THIS AND YOU BETTER NOT TALK ABOUT CHRISTIAN VALUES 47:53 BECAUSE THAT'S TABOO. 47:54 >> IT'S AMAZING THAT THE VALUES OF INCLUSIVENESS AND EQUALITY 47:59 SEEM TO EXCLUDE RELIGIOUS VALUES. 48:03 >> YEAH. 48:04 >> AND SO I--YOU KNOW, I HAVE A LECTURE ENTITLED 48:06 "WAKE UP AND SMELL THE EQUALITY." 48:08 'CAUSE EQUALITY, YOU KNOW, ISN'T WHAT IT'S ALL CUT OUT TO BE. 48:13 >> TELL ME HOW CHRISTIAN INSTITUTIONS--TALK ABOUT MORE. 48:18 TELL ME MORE ABOUT THIS, HOW CHRISTIAN INSTITUTIONS, 48:22 COLLEGES, ARE BEING ADVERSELY IMPACTED BY THESE POLICIES? 48:27 >> LET ME FIRST EXPLAIN IT THIS WAY, JOHN. 48:31 SUPPOSING THAT YOU WERE A WHITE SUPREMACIST GROUP AND YOU WANTED 48:39 TO RUN AN ELEMENTARY SCHOOL AND HIRE ONLY WHITES AND ADMIT 48:43 ONLY WHITE STUDENTS. 48:46 YOU COULDN'T DO THAT. 48:47 SOONER OR LATER-- >> THAT'S AGAINST THE LAW. 48:50 >> WELL, IF YOU PULLED THE WOOL OVER THE EYES OF THE TAXING 48:54 AUTHORITIES AND MANAGED TO GET YOUR TAX-EXEMPT STATUS 48:58 AND TO START OPERATIONS, SOONER OR LATER SOMEBODY WOULD 49:01 CATCH ONTO WHAT YOU'RE DOING AND A LAWSUIT WOULD COME UP 49:05 AND YOU'D BE SUED FOR DISCRIMINATING. 49:08 AND YOU'D HAVE TO STOP DISCRIMINATING AS PART OF THE 49:12 RESOLUTION OF THAT LAWSUIT OR ELSE YOU'D BE SHUT DOWN. 49:15 YOU CAN'T EXIST. 49:17 >> YOU'VE GOT TO OPEN THE DOORS TO EVERY PERSON, IN OTHER WORDS. 49:19 >> OKAY, IF YOU UNDERSTAND THAT INCREASINGLY--I MEAN, 49:23 CALIFORNIA'S VERY CLEAR. 49:25 HOMOSEXUALITY IS THE SAME LEGAL STATUS AS RACE. 49:29 IT'S NOT GONNA STAY ONLY IN CALIFORNIA. 49:32 AND SO THE IMPLICATION IS IF YOU CAN OPERATE A RACIST SCHOOL, 49:38 THEN YOU CAN OPERATE A SCHOOL BASED ON BIBLICAL TEACHINGS 49:42 ABOUT MARRIAGE AND HUMAN SEXUALITY AND DEAL WITH 49:48 HOMOSEXUAL CONDUCT AS A DISCIPLINE ISSUE. 49:51 BUT IF IT'S ILLEGAL DISCRIMINATION, THEN YOU CAN'T. 49:55 AND THAT WAS THE POINT I MADE IN MY LITTLE HYPOTHETICAL ABOUT 49:58 YOU AS A FACULTY MEMBER AT A COLLEGE. 50:02 IT WILL BE ILLEGAL FOR A COLLEGE OR A CHURCH OR ANY OTHER 50:09 CHRISTIAN ORGANIZATION TO UPHOLD ITS BIBLICAL STANDARDS OF HUMAN 50:14 SEXUALITY. 50:15 >> HERE WE ARE AT THE CARTER REPORT. 50:16 WE ARE A CONSERVATIVE CHRISTIAN ORGANIZATION. 50:19 WE TAKE THE BIBLE AS THE WORD OF GOD. 50:25 WE WOULD BE FORCED TO EMPLOY PEOPLE WHO HAVE A DIFFERENT 50:31 CORE VALUE TO US. 50:34 WE WOULD BE FORCED TO EMPLOY, SAY, PEOPLE WHO OPENLY PRACTICE 50:37 HOMOSEXUALITY. 50:39 >> YOU KNOW, IT MIGHT NEVER HAPPEN. 50:41 YOU MIGHT NEVER HAVE AN EMPLOYEE-- 50:43 >> BUT IT COULD HAPPEN. 50:44 >> IT CERTAINLY COULD. 50:44 >> AND IT IS HAPPENING, IS IT? 50:46 >> SUPPOSING YOU HAD A JOB OPENING FOR A SECRETARY. 50:49 >> YEAH. 50:50 >> AND IT TURNS OUT THAT, YOU KNOW, SOMEONE WHO APPLIES 50:55 SAYS, "YOU KNOW, I REALLY LIKE WHAT YOU'RE DOING, BUT, 50:58 YOU KNOW, WOULD YOU HIRE ME? 51:00 BECAUSE I'M A LESBIAN." 51:03 IF YOU DIDN'T HIRE THEM, AND IT COULD BE THAT YOU DIDN'T 51:06 HIRE THEM BECAUSE THEY WEREN'T THE MOST QUALIFIED PERSON 51:08 FOR THE JOB. 51:09 >> MAYBE THEY COULDN'T USE A COMPUTER. 51:12 >> MAYBE YOU JUST HAD A BETTER CANDIDATE. 51:13 BUT IF THEY THOUGHT THAT IT WAS BECAUSE THEY--YOU KNEW THAT SHE 51:17 WAS A LESBIAN, SHE WOULD SUE AND YOU'D HAVE EXPOSURE THERE. 51:23 AND AT MINIMUM, THE COURT'S GOING TO REQUIRE YOU TO CHANGE 51:27 YOUR POLICIES AND YOUR PRACTICES TO MAKE IT CLEAR THAT YOU DON'T 51:30 DISCRIMINATE. 51:31 >> SO HERE IN AMERICA, WHERE WE BELIEVE IN RELIGIOUS FREEDOM, 51:35 THE COURTS NOW AND THE GOVERNMENT, THEY HAVE THE RIGHT 51:38 TO COME TO US AND THEY SAY, "YOU'VE GOT TO VIOLATE YOUR 51:41 RELIGIOUS BELIEFS TO CONFORM TO OUR STATE LAW." 51:45 >> THAT'S CORRECT. ONE CAVEAT. 51:47 UNDERSTAND THAT WE HAVEN'T COMPLETELY FALLEN OFF A CLIFF 51:52 YET. 51:53 YOU KNOW, THE LAWS HAVE NOT UNIFORMLY AROUND THE COUNTRY 51:56 GOTTEN TO THE POINT WHERE WE'VE COMPLETELY LOST OUR RELIGIOUS 51:59 FREEDOM. 52:00 THE PRINCIPLES THAT THE COURTS ARE STARTING TO APPLY WILL LEAD 52:06 THERE, BUT WE'RE NOT THERE YET. 52:08 WE'VE SEEN SOME INSTITUTIONS CLOSE. 52:11 WE'VE SEEN CASES WHERE TAX-EXEMPT STATUS OF RELIGIOUS 52:15 ORGANIZATIONS IS CHALLENGED. 52:16 >> GIVE ME SOME INSTITUTIONS. 52:18 >> WELL, I MENTIONED THE TWO ADOPTION AGENCIES, 52:20 CATHOLIC ADOPTION. 52:22 BUT WE HAVE A VERY IMPORTANT CASE THAT WE'RE ALL WATCHING 52:25 CLOSELY IN NEW JERSEY. 52:26 METHODIST CAMP MEETING PROPERTY ON THE JERSEY SHORE, 52:29 BEAUTIFUL PLACE, OCEAN GROVE, A GREAT SPOT FOR WEDDINGS. 52:34 SAME SEX COUPLE WANTED TO HAVE A CIVIL UNION, 52:37 A COMMITMENT CEREMONY. 52:38 AND THE CAMP MEETING DECIDED THEY COULD NOT CONDONE THAT. 52:43 THEY DIDN'T WANT THAT ON THEIR PROPERTY. INITIALLY-- 52:46 >> THAT'S THEIR RIGHT, ISN'T IT? 52:47 >> IT OUGHT TO BE. 52:48 >> YEAH, ABSOLUTELY. 52:49 AMEN. 52:50 >> BUT INITIALLY, THEY WERE--THEY LOST A PORTION 52:53 OF THEIR REAL PROPERTY TAX EXEMPTION. 52:56 THEY WERE FINED BY THE STATE HUMAN RIGHTS COMMISSION AND 52:59 THESE THINGS ARE PENDING IN COURT. 53:01 THEY'RE DEFENDING THEIR RIGHT AS A RELIGIOUS PROPERTY OWNER TO 53:06 SAY, "NO, WE DON'T WANT TO HAVE A SAME SEX COUPLE SOLEMNIZING 53:13 THEIR RELATIONSHIP ON OUR PROPERTY." 53:15 >> NOW YOU'RE AN ATTORNEY. 53:18 YOU'RE INTO RELIGIOUS LIBERTY ISSUES. 53:20 WHERE DO YOU SEE IT GOING? 53:22 >> WE HAVE THIS CULTURE WAR RAGING, JOHN. 53:26 THE PENDULUM RIGHT NOW IS SWINGING TOWARDS THE SECULAR 53:29 SIDE, IN FAVOR OF GAY MARRIAGE, IN FAVOR OF THE GAYS. 53:33 >> THE VERY CHARACTER OF AMERICA IS CHANGING. 53:37 >> AND IT--AND THE VERY AMERICAN CIVILIZATION IS AT RISK. 53:42 NOW I DON'T KNOW IF THE PENDULUM'S GOING TO KEEP GOING. 53:45 IF IT DOES, THE CHURCHES CAN EXPECT TO LOSE THEIR RIGHTS 53:50 AND FREEDOM. 53:50 >> WHO CAN STOP THE SWING OF THE PENDULUM? 53:53 >> WELL, THE PROBLEM IS THAT SATAN LOVES TO PLAY BOTH SIDES. 53:58 AND SO THE RIGHT HAS A TENDENCY TO BECOME THAT MUCH MORE 54:02 INTOLERANT AND WHAT HAPPENS WHEN IT'S A BATTLE BETWEEN, SAY, 54:07 THE CHRISTIANS AND THE GAYS, THE GOSPEL IS THE ULTIMATE 54:11 VICTIM, IS THE LOSER BECAUSE THE CHRISTIANS COMPLETELY LOSE 54:16 THE ABILITY TO SHOW THE LOVE OF CHRIST TO THE GAY COMMUNITY 54:20 'CAUSE THEY'RE TOO BUSY FIGHTING IT. 54:22 >> CHRISTIANS MUST LOVE THE GAYS. 54:24 >> JESUS DIDN'T SAY, "I JUST DIED FOR THE RIGHTEOUS 54:27 OR FOR THE PROTESTANTS OR FOR THE LUTHERANS 54:29 OR FOR THE ADVENTISTS." 54:32 JESUS DIED TO SAVE THE WORLD. 54:35 >> ABSOLUTELY. 54:36 >> AND LAST I LOOKED, GAYS ARE PART OF THIS WORLD. 54:39 >> ABSOLUTELY. 54:40 >> THEY'RE PEOPLE THAT JESUS DIED FOR. 54:42 AND SO OUR FIRST OBLIGATION IS NOT TO PROTECT THEIR OWN 54:46 FREEDOMS, AS MUCH AS WE WANT TO DO THAT. 54:48 IT IS TO PREACH THE GOSPEL TO EVERYONE AND NOT TO EXCLUDE 54:53 ANYONE FROM THE LOVE OF CHRIST. 54:55 >> AND GET AWAY FROM THE ATTITUDE OF BEING BIGOTED. 54:58 >> RIGHT. 54:59 >> WE DON'T WANT TO BE BIGOTED. 55:01 >> BUT, YOU KNOW, IT'S A VERY, VERY SERIOUS RISK THAT OUR 55:05 LIBERTIES WILL BE LOST. 55:06 >> WHAT SHOULD WE DO? 55:08 THE PEOPLE WHO ARE WATCHING THE TELEVISION PROGRAM, 55:10 WHAT SHOULD YOU DO? 55:12 >> THAT'S A GOOD QUESTION. 55:13 YOU KNOW, WE HAVE A RELIGIOUS LIBERTY ORGANIZATION CALLED 55:15 THE NORTH AMERICAN RELIGIOUS LIBERTY ASSOCIATION. 55:18 OUR WEB SITE IS RELIGIOUSLIBERTY.INFO. 55:22 WE HAVE TO BE INFORMED AND GET INVOLVED. 55:25 WE'VE GOT TO STAND UP FOR OUR FREEDOMS AND BE RESPONSIBLE WITH 55:30 THE RIGHTS OF CITIZENSHIP. 55:32 OTHERWISE, WE HAVE NO BUSINESS COMPLAINING ABOUT THE LOSS OF 55:33 OUR FREEDOMS IF WE'RE NOT GONNA 55:37 STAND UP WHEN THERE ARE OPPORTUNITIES TO GET INVOLVED 55:41 TO SUPPORT THOSE WHO ARE WORKING ON THESE ISSUES. 55:44 WE--FIRST OF ALL, WE NEED TO EDUCATE OURSELVES. 55:48 AND THEN THERE ARE OPPORTUNITIES TO DO THINGS. 55:52 >> I THINK WE NEED TWO THINGS. 55:55 WE NEED THE LOVE OF GOD IN OUR HEARTS SO WE'RE GONNA LOVE EVERY 55:57 PERSON. 55:58 WE'VE GOT TO LOVE OUR ENEMIES AS OURSELVES. 56:01 ONLY THE GRACE OF GOD, ALAN, CAN MAKE YOU LIKE THAT 56:04 AND MAKE ME LIKE THAT. 56:06 BUT WE'VE GOT TO STAND FOR THE TRUTH. 56:08 >> WE DO. 56:09 >> WE HAD A LITTLE LADY WHO USED TO PREACH IN OUR CHURCH AND SHE 56:12 SAID, "YOU'VE GOT TO STAND FOR THE TRUTH SO THE HEAVENS FALL." 56:17 AND SO WE'VE GOT TO BE LOVING, BUT WE'VE GOT TO STAND UP 56:19 FOR WHAT WE BELIEVE IN. 56:23 AND THAT'S WHAT WE'RE ASKING YOU TO DO TODAY, DEAR FRIEND. 56:26 STAND UP FOR JESUS. 56:28 HAVE THE LOVE OF GOD IN YOUR HEART, BUT STAND FOR THE TRUTH 56:33 OF GOD, EVEN THOUGH THE HEAVENS FALL. 56:36 AND IT'S BEEN A PRIVILEGE, ALAN, HAVING YOU WITH US TODAY. 56:39 MAY GOD BLESS YOU IN YOUR WORK. 56:42 AND MAY GOD BLESS YOU TOO, FRIEND. 56:44 PLEASE WRITE TO ME. 56:45 JOHN CARTER POST OFFICE BOX 1900, 56:48 THOUSAND OAKS, CALIFORNIA, 91358. 56:51 IN AUSTRALIA, WRITE TO ME AT TERRIGAL. 56:53 MAY GOD RICHLY BLESS YOU. 56:55 TILL NEXT TIME, GOODBYE FOR NOW. 57:01 CC BY ABERDEEN CAPTIONING 1-800-688-6621 WWW.ABERCAP.COM 57:06 [MUS] |
Revised 2015-02-06