Participants: Pr. John Carter
Series Code: CR
Program Code: CR001413
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00:07 From Arcadia, California, the Carter Report presents
00:10 The Living Word around the world. 00:17 Hello friend, my name is John Carter. 00:20 I'm the president of the Carter Report. 00:22 And I'm so glad that you joined us today 00:25 for this animated discussion on religious liberty. 00:30 My special guest is Alan Reinach. 00:33 You'll be glad you joined us today. 00:40 I wish you'd come with me 00:43 to a land of more than a billion souls 00:48 all in need of hearing the gospel of Christ. 00:50 Did you know this my friend, 00:53 it is the duty of the Christian 00:56 to take the gospel of Christ to our lost world? 01:00 And the lost world I'm talking about right now is India, 01:05 land of millions and millions are pagan god's 01:10 but more than a billion lost souls. 01:15 India cries out for God. 01:18 We are now back on India TV 01:21 by broadcasting on primetime in India. 01:24 We need your prayers, we need your support. 01:28 Is it easy in India? No. 01:30 It's the hardest place we've ever worked. 01:33 Harder than Russian? Harder than Russian. 01:36 Harder than America? Harder than America. 01:38 Harder than Australia? Harder than Australia. 01:41 Because it is a land that's given over 01:43 almost totally to demonism. 01:47 Now I could tell you about those demons. 01:49 I could tell you about the false gods, 01:51 but I want to tell you today 01:52 is about the true God and the true God who told us, 01:55 go into all the world 01:57 and preach the gospel to every creature. 01:59 We're back in India. 02:02 Yes, we're back in India 02:03 and by the grace of God we're back in India to stay. 02:07 We want you to come with us. 02:08 We want you to pray for India. 02:10 We want you to give for India and do it today. 02:14 Please write to me, 02:15 John Carter, P.O. Box 1900, 02:17 Thousand Oaks, CA 91358. 02:19 Write to me at Terrigal, Australia, 02:21 email me, contact me and say 02:24 "yes, I'm going to stand with you 02:26 in the preaching of the gospel to the lost souls of India." 02:30 Thank you in Jesus name and God bless you. 02:41 Alan, we're honored and delighted 02:43 to have you here today 02:45 and we're glad that you joined the Carter Report 02:47 for this animated discussion on religious liberty. 02:51 The privilege is mine, John. 02:52 Glad to be with you. 02:54 Alan, what is the most important, 02:57 the individual or the state? 03:00 Here in America, we have always believed 03:04 that it's the individual. 03:05 Amen. 03:06 Is it true today? 03:08 No, sorry to say we live in the national security state. 03:14 Everything has changed, the individual, 03:16 I mean its, look- 03:18 Do you think Americans know about this? 03:20 No. 03:22 If you are in China and you're in a country 03:26 where you're trying to hold together 03:27 a society of 1.3 billion people, 03:31 I can understand where you're looking 03:33 at keeping the whole thing together 03:36 is more important than each individual. 03:39 But the whole premise of the United States 03:42 has a Protestant foundation. 03:45 And you know the Protestant genius 03:48 was to rediscover a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. 03:52 That Christ died for each one 03:54 and wants to have a relationship with you 03:56 and that you can have our relationship with God 04:00 through faith in Jesus Christ. 04:02 You can read the Bible for yourself 04:04 out of the revolution 04:06 that was the Protestant Reformation 04:08 we discovered that the individual 04:10 has real significance, 04:12 not just the community of the church 04:15 or the community of the state 04:17 and out of that when Protestant's came to America 04:21 we have our constitution and Bill of Rights 04:24 designed to reverse the idea 04:27 that you know the king has divine rights. 04:30 And he rules over the people, 04:32 now the people are sovereign. 04:35 Its government of by and for the people is able to- 04:38 I'm saying, I'm saying amen, amen, amen. 04:41 This is great theology and this is the genius 04:45 of the United States of America. 04:47 But you're telling me and you're an attorney 04:49 who is a professional in these areas. 04:52 You're saying, this is actually being threatened today. 04:55 Look, we'll are- 04:56 Or beyond being threatened? 04:57 We're living on borrowed Protestant cultural capital, 05:01 Protestantism, terms of its legal influence is dead. 05:05 I would suggest you that Protestantism 05:07 in its cultural and religious influences 05:09 is largely dead as well. 05:11 I think this is true. 05:13 And I say that in the sense of the emphasis 05:16 on a personal relationship with Jesus Christ, 05:19 the emphasis on the individual, we are- 05:23 Protestant America is now 05:25 very much Catholic America in this sense. 05:29 Historic Catholicism, you're standing before God 05:34 dependent upon your standing in the religious community. 05:36 Yes. 05:37 Today in America, 05:40 the state and the security of the community 05:43 is more important than any individual. 05:46 I can see what you're saying, 05:47 I can hear what you're saying, 05:48 I'm listing with both ears 05:52 but if this is so then we are really seeing 05:54 Bible prophecies being fulfilled today. 05:57 One of my favorite Bible commentators, 06:00 Ellen White observes of America and prophecy 06:04 that she will repudiate 06:06 every principle of her constitution, 06:09 both Protestant and republican, 06:12 "small r" republican principles. 06:14 Now republic means, 06:16 government of by and for the people. 06:19 A republic is a system of government 06:22 where the people are sovereign. 06:23 Today, its, its hardly, 06:26 I mean you know I take a Bill Moyers quipped that no, 06:29 I think it was Stephen Colbert who said 06:31 "well, now that corporations are people, 06:33 we finally have government of by and for the people." 06:36 Say that again. 06:38 Well, you know the Supreme Court 06:39 famously decided in the Citizens United case 06:42 that corporations are persons 06:44 who have first amendment rights. 06:46 And so the television comedian, Stephen Colbert was- 06:51 now that you know corporations are persons 06:54 we have government of by and for the people at last. 06:59 I get it. 07:02 So we're moving away from the great constitution 07:05 that made America the greatest force in the world for good. 07:08 We really are. 07:09 We have shredded wholesale, 07:11 whole portions of the constitution. 07:14 When we have SWAT teams that go in, 07:16 you know we have a militarized police force. 07:19 We have militarized drones coming to a city. 07:22 No, no, everybody wants to hear this. 07:24 Well, whether you want to hear it or not it's happening. 07:27 I want to hear it, tell it to me. 07:28 Let me have it. 07:30 Well, we have an NSA that is monitoring 07:33 far more than George Orwell ever imagined 07:37 when he wrote 1984. 07:39 We're way passed in Orwellian kind of oppressive society. 07:43 You see, I've been teaching from the Bible 07:46 for more than 50 years, 07:48 Alan and I used to preach the prophecies of the Bible 07:52 and you know those prophecies like Revelation 13, 07:55 and Revelation 13 actually describes 07:58 a coalition of church and state. 08:00 Correct. 08:01 And the setting up a totalitarian system 08:03 that'll take religious freedoms from the people. 08:05 Right. 08:06 So, can you see this happening? 08:09 It is happening, but I think that many 08:12 who even study the prophecies 08:14 they don't know what they're looking for. 08:17 Mark of the Beast religion is the dominant force 08:21 in religion in world today. 08:24 Because the kind oppressive religion 08:27 that Revelation 13 talks about 08:29 is what most people believe that God will kill you 08:33 if you don't tow the line, 08:35 "it's my way or the highway" approach 08:37 and this is true regardless 08:39 of whether your worship is you know 08:43 Islamic fundamentalism or Christian fundamentalism. 08:46 So the people who are watching this television program today 08:49 would be wise if they would wake up. 08:53 Because the vast majority of the people 08:55 I talk to are of totally oblivious 08:57 to the fulfillment of Bible prophecies 08:59 and when they see things happening 09:01 in the United States of America, 09:03 they say "so what." 09:05 So liberties go to save their securities. 09:10 I think it was Ben Franklin, 09:12 who said those who would trade eternal liberty 09:15 for temporary security deserve 09:18 neither liberty or freedom, liberty or security. 09:23 And you would say from your experience 09:25 that this is taking place today 09:28 in the United States of America. 09:29 Franklin has been so off quoted in the last decade 09:33 because we realize that this is happening. 09:36 We have created the national security state 09:39 and you know by fighting a- so called war on terrorism, 09:45 you know, I mean more Americans die on our highways. 09:49 More Americans die 09:51 because they put a smoking stick in their mouth 09:55 than die from terrorism 09:57 and yet we're giving away our freedoms 10:00 because of the fear of terrorism. 10:02 Wouldn't some people say 10:04 that what you're teaching is dangerous, it's subversive? 10:09 Well, I could be arrested by the military 10:13 and locked up for a long time because- 10:14 But, why? 10:16 I'm dangerous and subversive for questioning authority, 10:19 but my generation 10:20 was the questioning authority generation. 10:22 We're taught to do that weren't we? 10:24 Of course and doesn't the Bible teachers to do that? 10:28 Doesn't Jesus tell us to search out for the truth? 10:32 Doesn't the Bible teach us 10:33 the importance of the individual? 10:35 John- 10:37 That the individual is more important in the state. 10:39 I thought that religion teaches you 10:41 to leave your mind at home 10:43 and just believe what the Church teaches you. 10:45 Well, that's what a lot of people believe, 10:47 check you- you come to church. 10:48 Check your brain at the door. 10:50 Check your brains at the door. 10:51 You know John, I- we talked about 10:53 my own spiritual journey in another program. 10:56 I was raised as a devout secular humanist. 10:59 I was thought to use my brain to rely on reason and logic 11:04 and when I did that I came to the conclusion 11:07 that belief in Jesus was the only thing 11:09 that made sense in this world. 11:10 Absolutely, and I say amen to this. 11:13 Is torture including water boarding 11:18 ever justified to save us? 11:22 No. 11:23 Never justifies. 11:24 The short answer is no, 11:26 but I think there is so much longer answer that's needed. 11:29 There are Americans who think 11:31 and have been deceived by the propaganda 11:34 the torture can be useful. 11:36 I've had church members come to me time after time 11:40 and they've said to me 11:41 "we believe it is justified to carry out torture." 11:46 And I've said to them what about 11:48 what happened in Germany? 11:50 And they've said one lady even said to me 11:52 "if I had been living in Germany in those days, 11:55 I would have gone along with it." 11:58 Yeah, they probably would have. 12:01 You know the FBI has found 12:04 that their interrogation techniques 12:07 which do not use torture are much more effective 12:12 and the latest that's come out in the senate report 12:16 is that the early reports of great successes 12:20 with the use of torture were fabricated. 12:22 And remember this, 12:24 we believe as Protestant Christians 12:27 that the end it does not justify the means. 12:30 I mean, if you want to talk about morality, 12:32 what happened at the golden rule. 12:34 Oh, yeah, I'll torture you 12:37 'cause I don't mind if you torture me, sure. 12:40 Of course, we know that is completely false. 12:43 But the Bible teaches that we should not do evil 12:47 so that good might come. 12:49 That is the teaching of anti-Christ the idea 12:52 that the end somehow justifies the means is abhorrent 12:57 and wrong and therefore 13:01 because we see what is happening in the world today 13:03 and what is happening in America, 13:05 we see that these are fulfilling signs 13:09 a Bible prophecies. 13:10 Bible prophecies are coming to parse. 13:13 They are John, and you know 13:16 it may be that countries to evil at times 13:20 in pursuit of their national ends, 13:23 but one of the biggest problems 13:25 that I see in America's approach to torture 13:28 in the last decade is the attempt to justify it 13:32 and say that it's legal. 13:34 You know a lot of countries will break the law 13:38 and do things that they think are immoral 13:40 and follow this ends justify the means approach 13:43 but they know that they're doing things that are black. 13:46 That are immoral- They're evil. 13:48 That are illegal. Yes. 13:49 Okay, and they make those hard choices 13:52 and they hope that they don't come to light. 13:54 We're doing in the light 13:56 and we're trying to justify what cannot be justified. 13:58 But we have stopped it now. 14:01 So we say, I hope so. 14:04 I would sincerely hope and pray so, 14:06 because torture is abhorrent. 14:09 It goes against the constitution, 14:12 it goes against everything the Bible teaches. 14:15 Alan, would you agree with me 14:17 that our greatest need here in America 14:20 is returned to the faith of our fathers. 14:22 There's no question, spiritual revival 14:26 is absolutely our greatest need. 14:30 Now, we don't want you to go away 14:32 because we got more stuff coming with Alan Reinach 14:36 and its great stuff and you need to hear it 14:39 because we're talking about your religious liberty. 14:42 Now my friend, here is a magazine 14:44 that you want to get and we'll send it to you free. 14:48 It's not going to cost you anything 14:50 but please support the work of God. 14:52 You can have this magnificent magazine 14:55 that talks about many of these issues, 14:57 it is called Ebenezer. 14:59 Please write to me John Carter, 15:01 P.O. Box 1900, Thousand Oaks, CA 91358, 15:06 in Australia write to me at Terrigal, 15:08 email me, I even take emails these days, 15:12 so please write to me, stay in touch. 15:16 And we're going to be back after this break 15:18 and we're going to be talking about 15:20 some of the greatest issues that you've ever heard about 15:24 your religious liberty threatened, here in America. 15:31 Did you ever have a sense of destiny? 15:34 Did you ever feel that God has put His hand upon you 15:37 for some tremendous task, that you really got a purpose, 15:42 that God has called you for such a time as this? 15:46 I have that sense, that conviction today 15:49 because God is opening up 15:51 doors for us in Latin America 15:54 and in Latin America my good friend, 15:57 there's a revolution going on. 16:00 It's not a revolution in the streets, 16:02 it is a revolution in the hearts 16:06 of men and women. 16:09 That's why the Carter Report is going to go to El Salvador. 16:14 We're renting an outdoor stadium 16:16 with room for more then 60,000 souls, 16:21 and we're planning a baptism in the- 16:23 on the Sabbath afternoon 16:25 of more than 5,000 born-again souls 16:30 in El Salvador, in Latin America 16:34 where there's a revolution going on, 16:36 where the Holy Spirit is being poured out. 16:39 Don't you want to be a part of this great purpose, 16:45 this great task, 16:46 this God designed outreach for Latin America? 16:52 Would you please write to me John Carter, 16:54 P.O. Box 1900, Thousand Oaks, CA, 16:57 tell me I'm going to support you. 17:00 Write to me in Australia tell me 17:02 I'm going support the preaching of the gospel. 17:05 Write to me today and support the preaching 17:08 of the Word of God around the world, 17:12 but right now in Latin America, 17:15 thank you and God bless you. 17:32 Welcome back friend, to a super program, 17:34 exciting stuff we're dealing with here today 17:37 with Attorney Alan Reinach. 17:39 We're talking about religious liberty 17:41 and how your freedoms are being threatened right here 17:45 in the land of liberty 17:46 in the United States of America. 17:48 Alan, what made the USA different to those countries 17:54 that had religion in their constitutions? 17:57 For instance, what made American different 18:00 to Catholic spying under Franco, 18:05 Catholic Columbia, 18:07 Muslim Saudi Arabia, Muslim ISIS? 18:12 Very simply John, 18:14 the separation of church and state. 18:15 Tell me about it. 18:16 Well, the basic concept is simple 18:19 and it's not what a lot of Americans think. 18:22 The basic concept is religion 18:25 is not the business of government. 18:28 The government has other responsibilities 18:31 and they have no expertise in matters of faith and belief. 18:35 And so the idea is the state 18:37 stays out of the business of the church 18:39 and the church doesn't govern the state. 18:42 They have their unique spheres 18:44 that they are free to a function end. 18:46 This was the genius 18:47 of the United States of America, am I right. 18:49 And it was a principle of religious freedom. 18:52 Today too many see separation of church and state 18:55 somehow as a threat to religious freedom 18:57 but not as it was originally understood. 19:00 But the church never prospers 19:02 when the state gets involved with it. 19:04 You know, it's basically a form of socialism. 19:07 And if you think about, 19:08 you know our attitudes about welfare 19:11 and how it's sap initiative and vitality. 19:14 Which it does. 19:15 Well, when you put the church on the public dole 19:19 and have tax dollars pay for the church well, 19:22 the church is like a welfare cheat. 19:25 Now you take ISIS 19:26 they want set up a Muslim state. 19:28 Yes. We believe its evil. 19:30 What real difference is there from those Christians here 19:35 in the United States of America 19:37 who want to have a Christian American state. 19:40 Well, I certainly don't think that there are many Christians 19:45 if any here in America 19:47 who are prepared to tell nonbelievers 19:50 that they have to convert or die. 19:51 Oh, no, of course not. 19:53 I don't think that Americans who are there yet. 19:54 No, no, no, but what about 19:55 talking about a Christian state. 19:58 Well, I do think in principle 20:01 we should take a page from Saudi Arabia 20:04 and other countries like Iran 20:06 where church and state or mosque and state 20:09 are very much are working together 20:12 to realize that the freedom that we have 20:15 is because we don't give the state jurisdiction 20:19 over the church. 20:21 Alan, this is a tough one and the answers 20:23 you're giving are not good, 20:25 they're very good and I do appreciate them. 20:31 Is the US government entering into the realms a religion 20:35 when it declares itself the gay marriage, 20:39 the man having sex with man 20:42 and women having sex with women? 20:45 Is it pontificating in matters that belong to the church 20:51 or does the government have the right to tell people 20:55 what they ought to do in these things? 20:57 You know, this is a very confusing area 21:00 for many people, John. 21:01 And I think there's a difference between 21:04 the religious freedom analysis 21:07 and the moral and social policy analysis. 21:11 Let's start with this, 21:13 because we have relationships that dissolve 21:17 and financial needs, needs of children. 21:20 The state has jurisdiction over marriage. 21:23 Civil rights. 21:24 You know marriage initially began 21:26 as a holy religious institution but, 21:30 you know, you talk to people 21:32 when their relationships dissolve 21:35 somebody's got to come and decide 21:38 is somebody gonna support the other one. 21:40 How are the kids going to be supported, 21:42 who has custody of the kids? 21:44 So the state has legitimate jurisdiction 21:47 over the subjective marriage. 21:49 Now one of the problems, 21:51 when the states began to vote in the courts actually 21:57 at first began to bring in same-sex marriage 22:00 is they would spend hundreds of pages 22:03 describing the fundamental right to marry, 22:06 which nobody disagrees with. 22:07 There is a fundamental right to marry. 22:10 The problem is they never really decided 22:12 what is marriage in the first place? 22:14 And here's the crux of the thing, 22:16 in order for us to have are stable healthy marriages 22:21 as the building blocks of society 22:23 we need a culture that supports marriage. 22:26 Now our culture with no fault divorce 22:30 with the welfare society that means 22:33 that when men lose their jobs 22:36 and become unemployed the women and children 22:39 don't get support unless the men 22:41 move out of the home with the bringing 22:44 in of same-sex marriage and turning marriage 22:48 into a matter of sexual pleasure 22:51 of convenience rather than principle. 22:54 We have, as a society greatly destroyed 22:57 the culture of marriage. 22:58 So this is the secularization of society? 23:01 Yes. 23:02 So it not so much the government is it? 23:04 No. And society? 23:06 Well, government really 23:07 if you think about it the State is following suit. 23:10 It's reflecting society. 23:12 Correct. 23:15 But of course, you and I as Bible believing Christians, 23:18 we believe in the marriage 23:20 that is taught in the scriptures 23:22 between a man and a woman. 23:23 That's what marriage is. 23:25 And the State can try to redefine it 23:27 but that doesn't change the reality. 23:29 So same-sex marriage is an oxymoron? 23:31 Yes, it is. 23:32 But having said that, we love gay people, 23:36 we respect them, 23:38 and we believe they should have their civil rights. 23:41 But as Christians, 23:42 we believe that we've got some rights also. 23:45 And you know the crux of the problem, 23:47 when it comes to religious freedom 23:49 is that it's become a zero-sum game 23:51 where either the society is going to protect 23:54 the rights to the LGBT community, 23:57 Lesbian Gay Bisexual Transgender Community 24:00 or the rights of religious freedom but not both. 24:03 And that really both, 24:05 there's now kind of a war going on 24:07 whether it's gonna be religious freedom or sexual freedom. 24:10 Yes, and so this is an indictment, 24:13 I think of our society 24:15 and I believe these things have been prophesied in the Bible. 24:18 Do you believe that Christians 24:21 and other believers Jewish believes, 24:23 Muslim believers and so forth 24:24 have the right to practice their faith 24:26 without government interference 24:29 and I asked this question because, Dr. Billy Graham, 24:32 who has been called "The Conscience American" 24:35 said a little while ago 24:37 Christians can expect to be persecuted 24:40 by their own government here in the United States. 24:42 Look, basic principle of religious freedom 24:46 is everybody has the right to their belief, 24:48 to their worship, to practice their faith. 24:51 But we also have the saying 24:53 you know my rights end 24:54 when my fist approaches your nose. 24:57 Absolutely. 24:58 The question is, 24:59 is my practice of my religion harming somebody else 25:03 and at times rights do come into conflict 25:07 and the courts have to figure out 25:09 can we protect everybody's rights and if not, 25:12 how do we resolve conflicts. 25:15 Now we're gonna run out of time, 25:17 so I'll need to get a quick answer to this question 25:21 Revelation 13 talks about a situation 25:27 that arises in the world 25:29 where church and state come together 25:32 and an image to the beast to set up 25:35 which we believe is the coalition 25:37 of church and state. 25:39 Do you believe that this could be coming soon, 25:44 is it just around the corner? 25:46 Yes, is the short answer. 25:49 I started with this illustration 25:52 from the roadrunner 25:53 that the constitutional foundations have disappeared. 25:55 It's gone, it's gone. 25:57 So the courts and our legislatures 26:01 here in America are all too willing 26:04 to see the government involved in religion. 26:08 It's just that simple. 26:10 And so we ought to be saying today 26:13 to the American people and the Australian people 26:15 and everybody else watching, 26:18 it's time for you to get back to God, 26:19 it's time for you to read the Bible, 26:21 it's time for you to stand up for the faith 26:24 that was once delivered to the saints. 26:26 Amen to that, John. 26:28 And Alan, it's been a privilege to have you with us today 26:31 and it's been a privilege to have you to my friend, 26:34 watching out there in television land. 26:37 Please write to me, would you? 26:39 Write to the Carter Report P.O. Box 1900, 26:42 Thousand Oaks, California, 91358 26:45 write to me at Terrigal in Australia or email me. 26:50 Ask for our magazine. 26:52 Hey, this is a great magazine, 26:55 it is called Ebenezer. 26:58 It is full of terrific stories. 27:01 Let me tell you some of the articles 27:03 can bad be good, 27:06 nothing too hard for God, signs of the times, 27:10 my warning from the pope, 27:12 why they buried the bishop on the sidewalk, 27:15 amazing health secrets, 27:17 miracles in a communist prison. 27:21 Friend, please write to me today, 27:24 we want you to become part of the Carter Report family, 27:28 we believe in preaching the Bible truth. 27:31 We believe in the faith 27:33 that was once delivered to the saints. 27:35 We believe in evangelism, 27:38 in taking the pure gospel of Jesus Christ 27:42 right around the world. 27:43 And so please write to me today, 27:47 please email me. 27:49 It's been a tremendous privilege 27:51 having you with us today. 27:53 We are living in tremendous days, 27:56 we're living in that time 27:58 when the Bible prophecies are being fulfilled. 28:01 And Alan, we believe that Jesus is coming soon. 28:06 Amen. 28:07 Jesus is coming soon. 28:09 Please write to me. God bless you. 28:12 It's been great having you with us. 28:14 Goodbye for now. |
Revised 2015-03-26