Participants:
Series Code: CVNU
Program Code: CVNU000005S
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00:15 Hello, and welcome to Coronavirus Report.
00:17 This is our weekly 30 minute update 00:20 trying to give you a digest of what we know, 00:23 what we've found out during the past seven days 00:27 with respect to the coronavirus. 00:29 I'm here with Pastor Stephen Bohr, 00:31 the president and speaker for Secrets Unsealed and SUMtv. 00:34 - Pastor, good to have you here. - It's good to see you, C.A. 00:36 Also Dr. Teske. 00:38 Yeah, our resource person is Dr. Milton Teske. 00:40 He is the health officer for Kings County 00:44 just south of here. 00:46 And he's also the chairman of the board 00:48 for this very fine ministry. 00:49 So we are double blessed to have a person who is 00:53 in touch with the CDC, getting the latest information, 00:56 and who just happens to be chairman of the board 00:59 for Secrets Unsealed and SUMtv. 01:00 So, doctor, good to have you here. 01:02 It's good to be here again. 01:04 And I'm C.A Murray. 01:05 We are trying each week to give you some of 01:07 the highs, the lows, the good, the bad, the ugly; 01:10 whatever comes up, whatever the scientists are finding, 01:13 whatever the good doctor has to share with us. 01:15 We are ready and willing to ask and hear, 01:17 because he has a lot to say. 01:19 We have a lot of questions. 01:20 Praise God, he has a lot of answers. 01:22 So it's good to have you here. 01:25 Pastor Bohr, I know you've got some questions. 01:27 I have some. 01:28 The doctor has some things that are on his heart. 01:30 But I think we'll lead off with you and let you start out. 01:32 Okay, I have a question regarding origins. 01:36 It seems to me like if you're going to learn from a pandemic, 01:43 it would be helpful to know where it started 01:46 and how it started. 01:48 And there's a lot of theories out there 01:50 about how the coronavirus got started. 01:52 One is that somebody ate a bat 01:54 and it was transferred from the animal to the person, 01:56 and then from person to person. 01:58 And recently I've been noticing on the news 02:01 that there's a lot of talk about perhaps it's a careless act 02:05 in a lab in Wuhan. 02:09 And I remember over a month ago when you gave a lecture 02:13 on the coronavirus, you mentioned that you thought 02:17 that might be what happened. 02:21 So is there any update on that? 02:23 I know that is a difficult question to answer. 02:25 This is definitely a controversial area 02:28 in the world today politically because of 02:31 the implications of that. 02:33 But, you know, exactly where it came from, 02:37 how it came to be, and how it turned into this pandemic... 02:42 You know, the first story was, yeah, it came from bats 02:47 and eating bat soup from these wet markets in Wuhan, China. 02:54 Then they felt, well, it came from bats, 02:56 and went from bats to snakes, and from eating the snakes. 03:00 And then from bats to pangolins, and it was the pangolins 03:03 then that made it to the human jump there. 03:09 All of that is a little bit far-fetched when you 03:12 start to look at some of the details on it there. 03:16 The latest one as you mentioned they're putting out there is 03:18 the connection with the Wuhan Virology Institute, 03:23 which is China's only BSL4. 03:27 Which is a bio-safety level four lab. 03:31 We have quite a number of them here in the U.S. 03:34 They have this one in Wuhan which is capable to handling 03:40 really dangerous viruses: Ebola, SARS, 03:46 you know, that type of thing. 03:48 And so, that would certainly be a place, okay yeah, 03:52 they're doing this kind of stuff there. 03:55 When you start to say, okay, well they were doing research 03:59 on bats, and somehow one of the lab workers 04:03 got it from the bat and it got out in the community, 04:06 maybe that's so. 04:08 But, you know, when we start to look at some of the 04:11 genetic sequencing in there, there are a number of scientists 04:16 that are pointing out now that this didn't just evolve. 04:23 It doesn't bear the hallmarks of natural genetic evolution. 04:27 Viruses evolve. They change, they mutate. 04:30 And quite rapidly so. 04:31 And that's well know, and they follow through. 04:34 And they've got databases of all of these different 04:38 virus genomes and show what changed where. 04:41 And then it went to here, and this one changed to this. 04:44 That's quite a large, you know, field of study there. 04:46 And this doesn't seem to fit those patterns. 04:49 It goes from here, and doesn't have any steps, 04:52 and suddenly it's way over here. 04:54 Which has all the hallmarks of, this is something 04:58 somebody made. 04:59 ~ Has it mutated? 05:01 There have been some mutations that have 05:04 actually been measured since it came out. 05:06 Viruses do that. 05:09 But where it came from in the first place, 05:12 which was the question you asked about origins, 05:15 didn't seem to fit that picture as you start to look at it. 05:20 You know, today we have the technology 05:23 to cut things, insert things. 05:26 We can just, we can make up a code and take pieces 05:30 and splice them all together and make whatever we want now. 05:33 It's sort of like Lego's. 05:34 I mean, just get the pieces and put them all together 05:37 and you can make anything you want. 05:39 The problem is, when you start doing really evil things 05:43 like making viruses with, you know, what they call, 05:48 gain-of-function, well the gain of function they're talking 05:52 about is they're making it more infective, 05:55 more infectious, more virulent, more, you know, evil in the 06:02 terms of this disease causing. 06:04 Causing severe infections, more destruction. 06:07 We talked the last time about how this has the ability to 06:11 attack immune cells, which none of the coronaviruses 06:14 before this COVID-19 were able to do. 06:18 And what's different, this virus, the genome is exactly 06:22 identical to the SARS virus, except they're finding 06:26 that in these spiked proteins, the genomes for building those 06:29 proteins that make that little spike that it attaches and 06:32 infects with, there are several inclusion sequences. 06:35 And it's like you just cut the genetic code, 06:38 spliced in a little piece, and put it back together with these 06:41 little pieces; and there's four little parts in there. 06:43 And there was one study that came out that showed 06:45 those four parts were exactly identical 06:48 to parts of an HIV-1 virus. 06:50 In other words, somebody was taking pieces from here 06:54 and putting them in here. 06:55 And while they're different places in the code, 06:57 when you make a protein based on that code 07:00 and it folds in its various shape to make this spiked 07:03 protein, all of those little pieces of the fold actually 07:06 come up right together on the very tip of the spike. 07:09 In other words, they're putting those pieces there 07:11 right where they're going to attack and attach 07:13 and, you know, have a function there. 07:16 And that's how they build in this gain-of-function. 07:21 So, you know, as I look at the various theories out there 07:25 as to, you know, the origin of this, 07:29 being of man-made origin; this is something 07:35 that was spliced together, put together intentionally 07:39 in the pieces for a certain reason. 07:41 It seems quite obvious. 07:43 ~ So does the splicing make it more difficult 07:46 to develop a vaccine? 07:48 ~ Not necessarily. 07:51 What makes a vaccine more difficult to develop 07:55 is all the little mutations that it keeps doing 07:58 spontaneously on its own. 07:59 And most little mutations don't change anything 08:02 as far as its infectivity. 08:05 You know, these little, you know, you change a bump here 08:07 and a bump there; it still basically works the same. 08:10 You know, somebody had to intentionally put these pieces 08:12 in the right place to make a specific change 08:14 in a certain place. 08:15 But these other little mutations, as they keep coming, 08:18 well you make a vaccine, and then it mutates a little bit. 08:22 Well, now this vaccine doesn't work, and now we need to... 08:25 We see this every year with the influenza vaccines. 08:30 You know, there's all of these, the influenza viruses, 08:33 which are similar in some ways. 08:35 They have the envelope around them like a SARS, 08:40 you know, or a COVID virus does. 08:42 But it's always changing. It's mutating, changing. 08:45 And so, every year they have to come up with a new vaccine. 08:50 Well now, which version are they going to make it on? 08:53 Well, the epidemiologists get together in a room 08:56 and they look at all of the surveillance data from the past 08:59 year from here, as well as from South America, other places, 09:03 and they all sit together and say, "Well, we think 09:05 the most likely strain to flare up this year is this." 09:10 And they'll put three or four best guesses as to 09:14 what's going to come next, and that's what going to 09:16 be in the flu shot for the next year. 09:19 And so then, well now, if that virus starts to come around, 09:24 yeah, you're protected because they guessed right. 09:28 But if it's a different one, well then it's probably 09:32 not going to work for you. 09:34 Will it help? 09:35 I mean, if it doesn't specifically deal with this, 09:38 does it partially deal with some other type of influenza? 09:43 Maybe, if it's really, really close it might. 09:48 But generally, no. 09:50 As a matter of fact, if you get a novel strain coming in... 09:56 Remember, I think it was 2009 what they called, the swine flu? 10:00 It was a totally different version that wasn't even 10:04 like any of the influenza. 10:07 And suddenly it was spreading everywhere. 10:10 Well of course, nobody knew about that before, 10:12 so it wasn't in any of the vaccines. 10:15 So nobody was protected against it. 10:17 But an interesting fact, in Canada they did a study. 10:22 Because of the Canadian health system up there 10:24 they've got a lot of centralized records 10:26 and were able to do that easily. 10:28 But those who had the flu shot that year, 10:32 which of course did not protect against the swine flu, 10:36 they were twice as likely to get the swine flu, 10:44 as compared to people who did not get the flu shot that year. 10:47 They were like only half as likely to get the swine flu. 10:52 And the thinking is that apparently it's like, okay, 10:57 so the flu shot, you know, has got these antigens. 11:02 In other words, pieces of a virus. 11:04 And so when they inject it in you, your body makes 11:07 antibodies against those pieces. 11:09 So if you get a real virus of that type, 11:12 hey, it's ready to go after it and attack it, 11:14 and destroy it for you. 11:16 Well, so your body has basically got these things that say, 11:21 "Oh, that's the virus. We've got to attack." 11:23 And so, you've made up all these antibodies against 11:25 what was in the flu shot. 11:27 You've basically sort of hi-jacked your immune system 11:30 now to go and fight the enemy. 11:34 In other words, you've got all of your troops, your army, 11:37 the air force, the navy, everybody is out there 11:39 looking for this enemy. 11:41 And now there's a different enemy. 11:43 And it's like, you've already deployed all your troops, 11:46 now what have you got left to go fight this? 11:48 Well, they're already geared up to go fight this. 11:51 Whereas, this one that wasn't all geared up to fight 11:56 what was in the flu shot that year, 11:58 hey, they're all ready to build up and attack 12:02 in the, you know, the normal immunological response 12:06 and less likely to, you know, have a problem 12:08 and more likely to be asymptomatic 12:10 and not have an issue with it. 12:12 So, you know, that's one of the... 12:16 You know, are these shots for ongoing changing 12:20 viruses really valid? 12:21 And of course, the question is, what about 12:25 a vaccine for the coronavirus, the COVID-19 now? 12:30 Everybody says, "Yeah, we're working on it." 12:31 We've got hundreds of different labs around the country that are 12:36 making vaccines for this new COVID virus. 12:43 And of course, that would be great to have a 12:45 vaccine that would work. 12:48 The question is, will they be able to make one that will work? 12:51 Or will it be like the influenza virus that's going to 12:56 keep changing, and six months from now 12:59 by the time they get a vaccine now, will there 13:01 be enough mutated strains out there that, 13:04 yeah, we'll vaccinate here, but there will be 13:06 some mutated strains that it won't protect against. 13:09 So we're still going to have flare-ups. 13:10 You know, like, every year we still have 13:12 the seasonal influenza. 13:14 Will we end up with the seasonal COVID? 13:17 Maybe. 13:19 You know, nobody really knows the answer to that yet. 13:21 This is very interesting, and I'm glad that you 13:23 went down this road, Pastor Bohr. 13:26 Because, one, this is not your own personal home spun theory. 13:30 This is out in the scientific community now. 13:34 You may have gotten to it a little early, 13:37 given your studies and from where you sit, 13:39 but it's being spoken of by numbers of people 13:42 who are realizing that the idea that this was 13:46 engineered cannot be taken off the table. 13:50 You may not have hard proof, but you cannot dismiss it either. 13:53 ~ Yeah. - Yeah. 13:54 So that is an option. 13:57 You said something a couple of weeks ago that touched my ear. 14:00 You said this virus has been made very efficient. 14:06 It is not that deadly, as we look at things that are deadly, 14:09 but it's very highly contagious. 14:12 It has been made very, very... 14:14 A lot of people are getting it. 14:15 You can get it very easy. 14:16 And though there are a lot of people who are asymptomatic, 14:19 a lot of people are symptomatic, 14:20 and a fair number of people are dying. 14:22 So it's been put together in such a way 14:25 that it does what it does very well. 14:28 ~ Especially compared to what it used to be a few years ago, 14:32 which was the SARS virus. 14:34 And the SARS virus was bad, 14:37 but it was fairly self-contained. 14:40 I mean, I think we had worldwide a total of 800 people, you know, 14:44 that died from the SARS virus. 14:47 Now with making these modifications to the SARS virus, 14:52 that it's more, you know, infectious, 14:56 it's spreading wildly everywhere and it seems like our best 15:00 efforts can barely slow it down a little bit. 15:02 And we're way beyond 800 deaths here, you know. 15:06 I mean, you know, we're in the many tens of thousands, 15:10 and you know, hundreds of thousands worldwide here. 15:14 So it's definitely more infectious spreading out there. 15:18 I want to ask your opinion on something. 15:20 And it's your opinion, but I suspect it's an educated one. 15:24 Because Germany is beginning to take the seal off some of 15:28 this quarantine, France is beginning to take the seal off, 15:32 Spain is, and there is much talk about doing some things 15:37 here in the United States. 15:38 They're talking incremental, but they are talking about 15:40 definitely doing it. 15:42 In your considered opinion, at this point are we 15:45 rushing it a little bit? 15:47 Can we do that with any amount of safety? 15:49 Are we trying to push ahead a little too fast? 15:53 To really answer that, of course you're going to have to realize 15:57 that all epidemics are local. 16:00 Even though this is a pandemic, what we have here in the 16:03 Central Valley right now is going to be different than 16:06 what we have in the Bay Area, or what we've got in New York City, 16:09 or what we've got in Peru. 16:11 The degree of the number of people infected 16:14 and how badly it's spreading in the community. 16:17 But we all start at the same place with this virus. 16:20 And that is, everybody in the community is susceptible. 16:24 This is a brand new virus. 16:26 Nobody came into this being immune to this. 16:29 So nobody had pre-existing immunity to it. 16:33 And so, it's spreading through the community. 16:38 Widely spreading through the community, probably. 16:41 And some people get extremely sick and die from it, you know, 16:45 as it attacks their lungs and heart, and they really can't 16:48 and aren't able to fight it off. 16:51 But, you know, as we start to look at that and realize 16:56 what's going on there, you realize the only way 17:01 to end this when it's this infectious 17:06 is to make people immune to it. 17:09 I mean, ideally if we had a vaccine on day one 17:13 and we went out and vaccinated everybody, 17:16 then nobody would get it and this virus would be over. 17:20 But, you know, we're not going to get a vaccine 17:22 for a year and a half, and who knows if it will work then, 17:25 or if it will already have changed. 17:26 So that's down the road, and you're not going to be able to 17:30 count on it to get through what we're dealing with right now. 17:34 So the only immunity is going to be what we build up 17:37 in the community. 17:38 In other words, people that have been infected 17:40 and got well, and their body's immune system has antibodies, 17:44 and they're able to fight it off. 17:49 And then, of course, the question, well can we 17:52 open up this lockdown? 17:54 Do we have to keep shutting everything down, 17:56 and wearing face masks, and staying six feet apart? 18:00 Although, some people are now saying it's more like 15 feet. 18:04 Depending on the type of, you know, what you read out there. 18:11 And the answer to that is going to vary by the area. 18:14 Because at this point the only way to get rid of it 18:17 is for everybody to get it. 18:20 And it's like, as soon as everybody in the community 18:24 has had it, then it's over. 18:27 Because nobody else can get it again. 18:31 But the problem with letting everybody get it 18:35 is that a large percentage, or a certain percentage 18:38 at least, get it really, really bad and are going to die. 18:43 They're going to need hospital beds, they're going to need 18:46 ICU beds, they're going to need ventilators 18:48 as their only hope of survival. 18:50 And we've only got so many hospital beds and ventilators. 18:57 And if we don't have enough, we saw this in Italy, 19:02 and we're starting to see it at other places, 19:06 then what happens? 19:07 Well, people that could have lived are going to die. 19:10 You know, and the doctors are in that position of, 19:13 well who gets a ventilator and who doesn't? 19:16 Or the system like in Wuhan just gets overwhelmed 19:19 and people are turned away because the hospitals are full. 19:23 Incidentally, I just saw this weekend right now, 19:27 it is now spreading through Central and South America. 19:31 Mexico had been hit bad. 19:33 I think Nicaragua, Peru, Ecuador were mentioned as places 19:37 where the number of people infected is exceeding 19:42 the ability of the healthcare system to provide the 19:46 critical care that's needed. 19:48 In Mexico City they were turning away people from the hospitals 19:53 because they were full. 19:54 There weren't any more ventilators or ICU beds. 19:56 And you know, here in this country we've got a much more 20:01 robust and developed healthcare system. 20:03 We've got a lot more hospitals, a lot more doctors, 20:06 a lot more ICU's, and a lot more ventilators. 20:09 And with proper, you know, our public health planning 20:13 and governmental, you know, organization, 20:16 we can shift those resources around. 20:19 And if it's flaring up in New York, we can push some more 20:21 resources there, or to New Orleans, 20:23 or now maybe to San Francisco, or wherever. 20:28 We have the capacity to handle a lot more infection 20:34 then, you know, some countries that have a very 20:36 minimal healthcare system and very few doctors. 20:40 And they go into it not really realizing how bad it is, 20:45 and implementing proper protective measures 20:47 right upfront, and you know, the healthcare workers 20:50 are your first casualties. 20:52 And you lose your doctors and nurses. 20:53 They get sick and die. 20:55 They're taken out of the picture right there. 20:57 You know, we see that in places. 20:59 So it can get really bad there. 21:02 So we don't want to cross that line, you know. 21:05 Then that's where you hear the talk about flattening the curve. 21:08 We want to slow the burn. 21:11 But it's like, you're not going to be able to stamp out 21:13 this fire without totally 100% locking down 21:17 and everybody stays home and nobody does anything. 21:20 So we're in this sort of partial lockdown where 21:23 we've got all the essential services open, 21:26 but everything else is locked down. 21:28 And well, that's really bad for the economy, 21:30 and how long can we put up with this? 21:33 And so the answer to your question is, 21:35 we're going to have to open that up. 21:36 We're going to have to start letting, you know, 21:39 things flow through and start opening up. 21:42 And as long as the healthcare system 21:44 can handle the burn, it's probably going to be 21:49 the right way to go. 21:51 And you know, it's how much we open up 21:55 and what is the reaction, and are we suddenly 21:57 getting a second wave and another flare-up of cases 22:00 because we've opened it up too much 22:01 and it's spreading from person to person now? 22:05 So the idea is, well how do we open it up 22:07 and control the burn without it getting out of control 22:12 where we don't have the resources 22:14 to handle the sick cases. 22:16 And of course, ideally, another piece in there, 22:18 if we get medicines that work, well that's another big thing. 22:21 You know, if the chloroquine or some of the antiretroviral 22:25 or something prove to be very effective. 22:30 You know, those that are doing the studies are still not 22:33 committing to saying how well that's working or not working. 22:36 There's anecdotal stuff that says it works, 22:38 but you know, how many people are getting well with nothing? 22:44 You know, and so it's like if I'd given one of them 22:46 a magic pill and they got better, well the magic pill 22:51 would get all the credit. 22:53 So until you actually do double blind studies 22:55 and you actually know the numbers, 22:58 you don't really know that it's working. 23:01 And so, you know, those are kind of the 23:05 opened-ended stuff out there. 23:07 I ask that because you're the health officer in your county. 23:10 So if things are going to be opened or remain shut, 23:14 that would come over your desk, would it not? 23:17 ~ The health officer and the way things are organized 23:20 gives the local orders to, you know, close or open. 23:24 But it's all done under the direction of the state. 23:27 So the California department of public health 23:30 really directs things here. 23:32 The health officers here in the Central Valley, 23:35 we get on the phone and have conference calls 23:37 every couple of days where we talk about 23:39 what are we going to open, what are we not going to open. 23:41 Yesterday, a big discussion of, well we need to be 23:44 opening up some of these, you know, industries here. 23:47 And well what kind of, you know, people can't stay 23:50 that far apart on the assembly line. 23:52 They're going to do this. Can they wear masks? 23:54 You know, figuring out, well what can we do to 23:56 open things up, but still keep down the spread here, you know. 24:01 What will be the... 24:03 And there's a lot of discussions, a lot of things. 24:05 And of course, nobody knows the answer. 24:07 We all make our best guess and put it out. 24:10 And it's going to be different in different regions 24:13 depending on how far the infection is out of control. 24:17 If the infection is burning way out of control right now, 24:20 well then you're probably not going to start opening up 24:22 things on top of that. 24:24 The problem is, the United States has a service economy. 24:29 Which means restaurants, bars, hotels, 24:33 you know, cruise ships and so on. 24:36 And how are you going to open up those? 24:40 Those are probably more complicated to open 24:42 than some of the others. 24:44 But they're probably some of the first ones 24:46 you're going to see opening, I suspect. 24:48 You know, they're going to put in, like, well we can only have 24:52 so many tables in the restaurant, 24:54 you know, that are spaced at certain distances apart. 24:57 And you know, there's just going to be those type of things 25:00 you're going to see. 25:02 You know, things won't be the same. 25:04 There will be different regulations and little things 25:07 they will do that may help or may not help, 25:09 but they're going to try all the little things they can do 25:13 to sort of reduce the spread, but not totally 25:17 shut down and lock things down. 25:19 Because, you know, you just can't do this indefinitely and 25:23 lock everybody up and nobody can do anything. 25:26 I mean, people have to work. 25:29 We need their services, we need their products. 25:32 And you know, these type of things are going to 25:35 need to move down the road. 25:37 And they can. 25:39 And they will. 25:40 And month by month, you know, more and more people 25:43 will develop some degree of immunity to this. 25:47 And things are going to become, you know, safer. 25:52 It'll get further under control. 25:54 And there will probably be some new normal on the other side. 25:58 We may have an ongoing seasonal COVID every year. 26:04 I wonder whether I have been exposed to the coronavirus. 26:09 You know, we were in Spain the end of January. 26:13 We came back early in February to the U.S. 26:16 So is there any place that you can get a test to find out 26:19 whether you were exposed or not in this area? 26:21 No, there is not. 26:23 The antibody test is available, it's been developed, 26:27 it's out there. 26:28 They've been doing some population based studies 26:31 where they'll just test random samples throughout a community 26:35 of stuff they've got there in the lab. 26:37 In the Bay Area, their results of that are showing that 26:41 this may be 80 times more infective than they thought. 26:45 In other words, they're finding antibodies 26:47 80 times more than they would expect 26:51 from what we know about how many people, 26:52 you know, how many reported infections are going on there 26:55 and how many people have been sick. 26:57 And we start testing antibodies, well look at all these other 26:59 people that have got antibodies. 27:01 They had asymptomatic infections or very minor infections 27:05 they really didn't think anything of. 27:07 And so, that's the test that we would like 27:11 to know the answer to. 27:13 And they have not made that available for individuals yet. 27:17 So, I mean, that will certainly help us moving into, 27:21 you know, getting out of the lockdown to find out, 27:25 oh hey, I'm immune to it. 27:27 But of course, at this point, we don't even know 27:29 if having the antibodies makes you immune. 27:32 You know, maybe next time we can talk a little bit more 27:34 about that and about the recurrences, 27:38 or re-infections, or re-flare ups. 27:41 What are the implications there? 27:44 Maybe there will be new light by then. 27:47 Indeed. And that's one of the big questions that's 27:49 coming down the road to face us. 27:52 Once you've got it, can you get it again? 27:54 Can you pass it on to someone else? 27:56 Those are some of the questions that hit us. 27:58 So there's always much to talk about. 28:00 We thank you for joining us on Coronavirus Report today. 28:04 And we hope to see you next time. 28:06 We've got a lot to tell you. 28:07 We know you've got a lot of questions. 28:08 Praise God, we may have just the answer that you need. 28:12 Bye bye. We'll see you again soon. |
Revised 2020-06-02