Participants: David Asscherick & Shanda Ban (Host), John Cunningham
Series Code: E
Program Code: E000007
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00:21 British journalist and convert to Christianity Malcolm
00:24 Muggeridge in his 1972 book Jesus Rediscovered wrote these 00:28 insightful words, he said, "I may I suppose regard myself 00:32 "as a relatively successful man. People occasionally stare 00:36 "at me in the streets and that is called fame. 00:39 "I can fairly easily earn enough money to qualify for 00:41 "admission to the higher slopes of the Internal Revenue 00:44 "Service and that is called success. 00:46 "Furnished with money and a little fame, even the elderly, 00:49 "if they care to, may partake of friendly diversions 00:52 "and that is called pleasure. 00:54 "It might happen once or while that's something I said or 00:57 "wrote was sufficiently heated for me to persuade myself 01:00 "that it represented a serious impact on our time 01:03 "and that is called fulfillment. 01:05 "Yet I say to you, and beg you to believe me, multiply 01:09 "these tiny triumphs by millions and add them all up 01:13 "together and they are nothing, less than nothing, 01:17 "indeed a positive impediment measured against 01:20 "one drop of that living water that Christ offers 01:24 "to the spiritually thirsty irrespective of who 01:27 "or what they are." 01:28 There is a story that is told about a young man who was 01:32 eating an orange for the first time. 01:34 The person that had given him the orange said have you 01:37 ever had one of these, this was back in depression times, 01:39 and the man said though I have never seen one of those. 01:42 He began to eat it and they were talking and looking out 01:44 and as they were sitting there the young man was 01:47 commenting all this is so good, this is so good. 01:49 The gentleman who ate given the orange to the young man 01:51 looked down and said oh you think that is good? 01:53 Wait until you eat the inside part. 01:56 Sometimes we are live in our life on the verge of what 02:00 God has in store for us. 02:01 We have settled for something else, as Malcolm Muggeridge 02:04 talks about something else, fame success, money, today I want to 02:08 introduce you to our guest and I want you to enter into 02:13 an experience with us today on the Engage program. 02:15 My name is David Asscherick and this is our co-host, 02:18 my co-host Shandra Ban and we want to introduce you to 02:21 our good friend Joshua Cunningham who's going to talk 02:23 to us about not just eating on the outside of the orange, 02:26 but the inside as well. 02:27 Thank you David, Josh we are so glad to have you on the 02:30 show today. Josh comes from New South Wales Australia, 02:34 but he is currently living in Sonora California. 02:36 Josh what is it that you do? Who are you? 02:39 Tell us your story. 02:40 Well at the moment I'm living in Sonora and doing Bible 02:43 work which is basically it means that I'm going to the 02:45 community and finding people who are interested in 02:48 learning about the Bible and I am studying with them. 02:49 It is very different like the one I was living not so many 02:53 years ago, much of my adult life I have been a member of 02:57 a successful Australian band and spent most of that time 03:01 touring and making records, play music and living a life 03:04 that I guess many people would consider a bit of a dream. 03:06 Right, hmmm, hmmm so that is quite the transition 03:09 so let's unpack it. 03:12 So your Australian obviously the accent gives it away. 03:15 You were raised in Christian context or a religious home? 03:21 Yeah I was raised in a Christian home, and Adventist 03:24 Christian home and then when it was 10 years old my family 03:28 actually left the church for a time. 03:30 As a 10-year-old that was no problem for me and I actually 03:34 rejoiced over that fact because church was something that 03:37 I was forced to attend. 03:39 I didn't have a personal relationship with Jesus. 03:41 I used to resent the fact that I had to go and that this 03:45 religious thing was part of my life. 03:47 - you told us that you equated church with a certain piece 03:52 of clothing, what was that? 03:54 Well I guess live in a family that didn't have a great 03:58 deal of money you receive hand-me-downs and my brothers 04:01 hence got handed down to me. And as I grew up and they 04:07 would ride higher and higher up my leg and more 04:09 my shin would be exposed. 04:11 Then they were getting less each year. 04:12 So your association with church is Heh lets go to church it's 04:16 Sabbath and you were like oh short itchy woolen pants. 04:19 Yeah, yeah that's pretty much the extent of it so you can 04:21 imagine when my family left the church I was quite happy 04:25 about that and no more woolen pants and now I could go 04:27 skateboarding with my friends on Saturday morning. 04:30 - you were skateboarder? - yeah. 04:31 Did I know that? - you did. 04:33 - it's nice to know it again. 04:37 Yeah so I kind of drifted off into my teenage years, 04:39 departed from whatever association I had 04:43 with Christianity, with God. 04:45 I basically start living a life that most teenagers do. 04:48 I got mixed up in trouble, wrong things and the one thing 04:52 I did it mixed up in was music. 04:54 It began playing the guitar when I was 13 years of age. 04:58 and this was a real great blessing for me, 05:01 I got totally focused on it. 05:03 I devoted all my time to it and began playing in rock 'n 05:08 roll bands. - at 13? 05:10 I actually was playing in establishments I was legally not 05:13 to old enough to enter but for some reason I got a gig in 05:18 a band and began playing in bars playing rock 'n roll music 05:21 with an electric guitar. 05:22 Now Josh I don't know if I've ever asked you this before 05:24 how did you come by your first guitar? 05:27 I was much younger my parents, my whole family in fact, 05:34 my brother and sister also they began getting guitar 05:36 lessons and I was so small that a guitar was just too 05:39 big for me so they got me ukulele. 05:41 So that amused me for time and eventually we moved away 05:46 from where the guitar teacher and ukulele teacher was. 05:49 I lost interest in it but as a 13-year-old I actually 05:55 saw the movie Back To the Future and there is a scene 05:57 where this guy plays guitar and it looks pretty cool 06:00 to a 13-year-old kid. 06:01 So did the skateboarding and it was a part of that. 06:03 That was a part of the movie is well. 06:05 So I thought that's what I want to do and I went and 06:07 found the guitar that my parents had been using 06:10 so many years before in the closet and 06:12 I started messing around on it and teaching myself basically. 06:17 I lived in a rural area away from town so I had to 06:21 find something to keep myself occupied and amused and 06:24 the guitar was that something you turned out to be. 06:26 Some you must have picked it up, it must also can pretty 06:29 naturally? Yet did it really spoke to me. 06:32 I remember strumming the first chord. 06:36 Again this strains of these cords were old and black 06:38 and those were the sweetest sounds I never heard. 06:41 I remember having an instant love of the guitar and of 06:45 music. - so playing in these bands and how long did 06:48 you stay in the band that you started in? 06:51 Well actually got to the end of high school, I was in 06:55 that band were several bands during my high school years. 06:57 At the end of high school I had been told that music 07:02 it's a hobby that you can do and there is no future in it. 07:06 You need to go to university and get qualified in 07:08 something, be responsible. - your parents told you this? 07:12 Not my parents so much but we had a career advisor, 07:16 and is one of the staff at the school so they would get 07:20 together with the students and advise them of the best 07:22 direction for them to go into. 07:24 So economics was what was suggested to me and my best 07:27 direction to head in. 07:28 So I applied for a degree, it position the University to 07:34 study economics and got accepted. 07:36 But then I thought while I love this music thing. 07:38 I had the opportunity to take a year off and go traveling 07:41 with a band I was in at the time but 07:43 I'll take that and get it out of my system and come back 07:46 and become the economists. 07:49 An economist do the responsible thing. 07:50 Yeah it was in June that year that I met two sisters who 07:55 I ultimately formed a band with and that was 18 years ago. 08:01 So that began the story of my whole journey that led to 08:09 success, multiplatinum selling albums, music awards and as 08:16 I mentioned earlier, just living the lifestyle that a lot 08:18 of people would look at and be very envious of. 08:21 This just a dream I would love to do it. 08:22 So it is a bit of a whirl wind from the time that you pick 08:25 up the guitar and an earnest at 13. 08:27 Shortly thereafter you are already playing in bars 08:31 I suppose or these kinds of establishments. - yeah now. 08:34 By the time you're 18 or 19 you go on his first tour and 08:38 this is where you meet the two girls? - yes, yes. 08:39 So that is pretty quick, snap, snap. 08:43 That is kind of the way the journey has been ever since 08:46 then as well, I mean it is interesting when I met up with 08:49 the two sisters we really never had any ambition to even 08:54 record music, we were playing other people's songs. 08:58 We were a bunch of kids traveling around our country. 08:59 - they were musicians as well? Yeah they were a just 09:03 playing in the same kind of establishments that I was 09:05 playing and music was more or less a way to travel and see 09:09 the country without having to work picking fruit or 09:12 whatever that people who bound around the country do. 09:14 That's the way it was for us and as time went on people 09:19 were coming to watch us play and encouraging us to write 09:22 music so we began to write music. 09:23 Things just evolved one thing after another without any 09:26 real, we weren't steering in any one direction we were 09:30 just following the journey, the path where ever it lead. 09:32 So you start a band with them and in some point you start 09:38 to write your own music, not just plain covers. 09:40 Do you have a name, does the band have a name at this 09:43 point? Or how does the ban acquire it's name? 09:45 The name by the way is The Waifs. W A I F S. 09:51 The Waifs, by the way what is a waif? 09:53 A Waif is actually a homeless child back in the 09:57 15th 16th century in England. 10:01 There were street urchins that lived on the streets. 10:04 - like Oliver Twist. - yeah like Oliver Twist. 10:06 homeless, underfed, malnourished just ragged looking. 10:10 We have been traveling around the country living in a 10:12 camper van and on our way around we stopped to here 10:15 and visited my grandmother and she was 10:16 horrified at my appearance. 10:17 Josh, you're a waif and then we made it all the way back 10:22 around two were the girls lived in Western Australia and 10:25 their grandmother said all my little waifs have come home. 10:29 Then there are other grandmother use the same term to them 10:31 so we thought, we didn't even know what a waif was. 10:34 This was not like a term that was in common parlors, 10:37 you didn't know that? - no. 10:38 So we looked it up and figured out what it meant and 10:42 thought it kind of describes the way we looked in our 10:44 itinerant and our lifestyle and maybe this is meant to be. 10:49 This is our new name. 10:50 So many years later it didn't really apply because 10:53 we weren't really waifs anymore. 10:55 You don't look very waifish today, but I suppose opinions 10:59 will differ. - where you outgrow a name 11:01 but it sticks with you. 11:02 So you start this band and you are The Waifs and now you 11:06 are traveling around Australia and did your popularity 11:09 just explode or was it a little more organic. 11:13 It was more organic, it just evolved gradually. 11:15 As I mentioned people encourage just write music and 11:18 we had enough songs to make a record so we made an album. 11:20 We began selling it at our own shows and then a few years 11:26 later a guy was interested in managing us and that led to 11:29 the release of a single which was very popular. 11:32 That album sold in a triple platinum and we won four 11:37 Aria awards that year, - like the Grammy awards? Yeah. 11:42 So things blew up without our being really ambitious for that. 11:48 So is just a natural organic progression, 11:52 but it's certainly was a very interesting journey, 11:56 a very interesting ride. 11:57 As I mentioned it is the kind of life that people really 12:01 glamorize or idolize, they think it's a fantastic thing 12:05 they've always dreamed of. 12:07 Basically a music star. - yeah, yeah I think the term rock 12:10 stars were entirely came from. 12:13 Rock stars were not the term but you were music star? 12:16 - yeah. - but you were famous, I had gone to see 12:20 you in concert here and even here hundreds and I suppose 12:25 sometimes thousands of people come out to see you. 12:28 So within the culture within the music culture 12:31 you are known, even here in the states people 12:33 know who Josh Cunningham is? Well we're more widespread 12:37 in Australia, certainly in America there are certain. 12:40 - so did you eventually start touring in America then? 12:42 Yes we spent a lot of time over here actually. 12:44 This is an interesting part of the story because my 12:49 parents, I mentioned my family left the church when I was 12:51 a 10-year-old, eventually they went back. - back to the 12:56 church? - back to the church and they had been praying 13:01 not only for myself but my brother and sister as well 13:03 who had a similar experience to me. 13:05 Once we didn't have to be in church we were fantastically 13:09 free so mom and dad were praying for all of their three 13:12 children, specifically me as I was traveling around 13:15 America and doing this music thing. 13:17 They were up praying that God would lead people into my 13:20 path that would witness to me and would draw me into a 13:22 relationship with Him, and that is exactly what happened. 13:28 people after the shows, and in random situations at the 13:32 beginning that conversations about God people were given 13:36 me books to read, and I just had this growing interest in 13:40 spiritual things and not to mention the age that I was at. 13:44 When you get to the point in your early 30s and you start, 13:48 your life is not all about traveling around playing music 13:51 and having a good time. 13:53 The fulfillments I had the satisfaction I had enjoyed 13:56 doing that was suddenly start to wane a little bit. 13:59 I was feeling that this was empty, 14:02 there must be more than this. 14:04 So around that time when you started feeling this and 14:06 your parents are praying send someone into his path and 14:08 someone did come into your path right? 14:11 Tell us a little bit about that? 14:12 Well as I mentioned there were many people, there was 14:17 one person in particular I guess when I met this girl 14:20 I realized at that point in time it was no accident. 14:24 God was actually putting people specifically in my path. 14:27 He was trying to draw me into a relationship with Him and 14:30 I met a girl on Thanksgiving of 2005 on an airplane, 14:34 of all places, and I realized through the 14:38 circumstances about meeting and our conversation I knew 14:41 that God was trying to reach me through this person. 14:43 She ended up sort of witnessing to you eh? 14:47 it was her witness to me that really made me aware of the 14:49 fact that God was really trying to reach me. 14:51 I remember getting to my hotel at night and kneeling down 14:55 and praying. - that night after you met her? 14:57 Yeah, praying for the first time since I was a little kid 14:59 having to say my prayers before it went to bed. 15:02 I just knelt and asked Jesus into my heart. 15:05 Not only did I have this awareness that God was trying to 15:10 reach me, but certain other events and decisions and 15:13 things I have been involved with and was proud of had 15:17 brought me to a point where I had been broken, my own 15:20 brokenness and God's love. 15:23 So there's a conversion with a lot of things here. 15:25 Parents are praying, you meet someone that witnesses to 15:28 you, you're experiencing an increase dissatisfaction with 15:32 the lifestyle, plus brokenness, it's like a perfect storm? 15:36 Yes I guess there were a lot of convergence of the 15:38 elements but to me the key ingredient in the whole story 15:41 was my parents, at least 10 years they were praying 15:47 faithfully and they were seeing their son indulging in a 15:51 lifestyle that was apart from God. 15:52 You can imagine the heart of a parent and their greatest 15:56 desire would be to see their children saved and they were 15:59 faithfully in prayer and God was faithful to those prayers 16:02 and He answered them by sending the right people into my 16:06 path and then I guess the story also accommodates in my 16:09 own prayer kneeling there by my bed and praying for the 16:13 first time in years. 16:15 It's just a testament to me the power of prayer. 16:17 So you just mentioned again that you have that prayer in 16:20 your hotel room that night, what happened next? 16:22 It was a radical transformation. 16:24 I just remember the next day, I was traveling around on a 16:27 tour bus during shows through America. 16:29 There is a lot of wasted time, a lot of down time 16:32 when you're sitting on a bus and watching TV, you're 16:36 having conversations about nothing at all really and 16:39 I just remember the next day we were on the bus traveling 16:42 away again and I had no interest in those things. 16:45 I couldn't actually sit there. - just like that? 16:48 Yes it was an innocent thing, I couldn't sit there and 16:50 just indulge in those convers- ations, can be watching that 16:52 stuff it was all empty, all I wanted to do was to crawl in 16:55 my bunk and pray and read my Bible. 16:57 So did you? - yeah. - so what did your band members 17:00 think? Do they think oh crazy Josh what came over him? 17:03 Yeah I shared with them what had happened, yeah I shared 17:07 what happen for sure with them. 17:10 I remember telling them, because I have this overwhelming 17:12 sense of love for them I remember saying I love you guys. 17:16 - I could see that, that is not hard to imagine 17:18 I could see it, praise God. 17:20 I think they were touched but they were oh that's weird. 17:25 So yeah I guess my life it just turned in a 180° in 17:29 a different direction and I continued on playing music, 17:33 because as you can imagine these people are like family 17:36 to me. - right because 18 years you were in this band. 17:40 Yeah, but obviously some changes took place, the aspects 17:44 of my faith had to be respected in the context of the band 17:48 and its activities and so that has been an ongoing story. 17:51 Then they were respectful, it was like hey 17:53 we love you too, it was family. 17:55 So Josh you, when you invited Christ into your heart again 17:59 did you go back to studying out Seventh-day Adventism 18:02 because that is what you have been raised in? 18:04 Or how did that work? 18:05 I guess that was my default setting, I began going to 18:08 church, the Church as I was seeking out were Adventist 18:11 churches but I will go to other churches as well. 18:15 I would sometimes go Sabbath and on Sundays also. 18:18 I just had a hunger for it, I couldn't get enough. 18:21 I had a tendency to try to avoid going back to Adventism. 18:27 I had a desire to be a Christian and that was enough. 18:31 It didn't really matter what flavor of Christian I was 18:36 and I guess because being an Adventist can place the 18:40 significant demands and changes on your lifestyle and when 18:44 you are playing in a band on Friday night and Saturday 18:47 these are the big nights to be doing shows. 18:49 I think I probably shied away going too deep into that 18:54 because I didn't want to interrupt and disrupt 18:57 my lifestyle too much. 18:58 But as my story continued on I became 19:01 convicted of those things. 19:02 Now I want to sort of ask a question here that is on 19:05 the same lines but a little different and that is you are 19:08 making this transition from a lifestyle, rubbing shoulders 19:11 with famous people, I mean you are a famous person so to 19:15 speak, in your culture and you must as seen a lot of 19:18 what we see in the rest of the world. 19:19 Famous people are not immune, and that is sort of emptiness. 19:22 Now you have this contrast and this new life in Christ 19:25 where I love you guys and this change that is taking 19:29 place with the emptiness that you had seen maybe you 19:33 could walk us through that a little bit? 19:34 As you say people in that position are not immune, in fact 19:38 it seems almost like the higher you ascend into that 19:41 position the more empty you feel because it is really a 19:45 world of make-believe in a lot of respects. 19:47 You see many stories of famous people that wreck their lives 19:52 drugs and addiction and broken marriages and infidelity 19:57 and all the rest of it. 19:58 I think it is a common story, everybody at some point in 20:03 their life is confronted with those searching questions, 20:08 the deep questions of life. 20:10 Where did I come from? Where my headed to? What is the 20:13 meaning of all this and how my supposed to live while 20:16 I am here? That was my experience and I think that's 20:19 the experience of everybody regardless whether you are in 20:22 the limelight or whether you are. 20:24 - Will that quote about success is that if you could have 20:28 one drop of that living water, and Josh being a musician 20:32 you have written a song about that living water. 20:35 Would you mind sharing that with us? 20:36 Absolutely I'd love to. 21:02 Well I was thirsting for that living water 21:06 drinking from the well that don't satisfy 21:10 and I met a man and His words were like no other 21:15 He said draw from the well and it will never run dry 21:20 He told me everything I had done 21:26 He said come and drink the living water 21:32 He said come and take from streams of life 21:38 you will thirst no more, you will thirst no more 21:54 I was hungry for heaven's manna 21:58 then eating the bread that parishes and never dies 22:02 I met a man He walked upon the waters 22:07 He said come partake of the bread of life 22:13 the bread that cometh down from heaven 22:20 He said come and drink the living water 22:27 come and taste the bread of life 22:31 and you will thirst no more, you will want no more 22:44 there's a water that's pure, there's a bread that's true 22:53 there's a light that shines and it's calling you 23:03 I was with without form and void in darkness 23:07 and all around me was trouble and strife 23:11 and I met a man that led me from my blindness 23:17 He said I am the light of lights 23:22 the light, the light of everyone 23:28 He said come and drink the living water 23:35 come and take the bread of life 23:39 and you will thirst no more 23:44 and walk in dark no more 24:16 I was lost in the darkness and couldn't find my way 24:19 looking for the light of day 24:22 all around me trouble and strife and eating the bread 24:25 that don't lead to life, clouds but no rain was filling my sky 24:29 I was getting the water that don't satisfy 24:32 I met a man He led me from blindness 24:35 talk to me in words of kindness 24:37 gave me to eat of heaven's bread come follow me is what He said 24:42 He called us His sons and daughters 24:45 and said I am the living water 24:53 and you will thirst no more, you will thirst no more. 25:06 Amen, Amen! That was beautiful thank you Josh. 25:09 Jesus that whoever drinks of the water that I shall give 25:12 him shall never thirst but the water that I shall give him 25:15 shall become in him a fountain of waters springing 25:18 up into everlasting life. 25:20 And you have had that experience. - yeah I have. 25:23 I mean I guess in my experience I've found, the ways I was 25:27 trying to satisfy that thirst and that hunger were ways 25:30 that never could satisfy because there is only one true 25:33 satisfaction and that is Jesus. 25:36 My personal testimony bears witness to that, I can honestly 25:40 say along with Malcolm Muggeridge millions and billions 25:44 of drops that other kind of water and it doesn't compare to 25:47 one single solitary drop of the living water that 25:49 only Christ can offer. 25:50 You know it is something for someone who has not tasted 25:54 that lifestyle at that level of prestige, or whatever the 25:57 term is, it is some for me to say that our maybe Shandra 26:00 to say it but for somebody like Muggeridge, like yourself 26:03 or others that have turned their lives over to Jesus that 26:06 is significant because you have tasted of the fountain. 26:10 The fountains that I have tasted out of and 26:12 Shandra but you tasted that fountain and said 26:13 no not compared to Jesus. 26:15 Well Philippians 3 verse 7 is some that really speaks to 26:20 me, it says "but what things were gained to me 26:24 "I counted loss for Christ". 26:26 The stuff I used to think was the best, he actually goes 26:31 on to call it dung. Can you imagine? 26:35 But for the culture we live in, the society we live in a 26:39 the values, cultural, social elites whether it is 26:44 a musician or even an actor, whatever it is we would 26:50 think dung? No that's a good stuff. 26:52 But when you've had a drop of that living water. 26:55 I think something we need to mention is that the title of 26:59 this program Musicianary because no Josh you are using 27:02 your music as a missionary so we have entitled you 27:05 a musicianary. - have you ever heard that term before? 27:08 No but I love it and I'm going to use it. 27:10 Shandra and I are currently debating about who came up 27:13 with it, I'm pretty sure it was me. 27:15 - I think it was the Lord. Hey there you go Josh 27:18 we needed that, we needed that an babe in 27:19 Christ is teaching us. 27:21 If you're interested in finding out more about Josh's 27:24 music he has a website which is: JoshCunningham.com 27:27 You can also e-mail us any questions or comments. 27:30 We just love to hear from you: engage@3abn.org or 27:34 search for Engage on face book we are there. 27:36 Excellent well Josh thank you so much for joining us. 27:40 You are God's musicianary and it has been a privilege to 27:44 have you and we want to say to our viewers thank you for 27:47 joining us and your experience might be 27:49 different then Josh's but fundamentally everybody's 27:52 experience is the same, the same as the woman at the well. 27:55 You come to Jesus and you taste of water that 27:59 you will never thirst again. |
Revised 2014-12-17