Participants: David Asscherick & Shanda Ban (Host), Jackie Esposo
Series Code: E
Program Code: E000010
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00:19 Hello and welcome to Engage, my name is David Asscherick.
00:23 We are thrilled that you are with us today. 00:25 We are going to be taking a look at how God can bring 00:29 beauty out of ashes and how He can bring restoration 00:33 to a life that has been sunk in shame and guilt. 00:37 The Bible says the book of Joel 2 "that God will restore 00:41 "the years that the locusts have eaten and taken away." 00:45 It's one of my very favorite Bible promises. 00:48 This idea that God can restore something that has been 00:51 taken away, something that has been robbed from us. 00:56 With us today is my co-host Shandra Ban and so we are 00:59 going to turn it over to her and she will introduce to 01:02 us today our guest. So please Shandra. 01:06 Thank you David, we have with us today the lovely 01:09 Jackie Espose, it is so great to have you here. 01:12 She comes from Clovis California, so not too far from 01:14 where we live in Sonora and it's been a blessing to get 01:17 to know you Jackie. 01:18 You, as David mentioned, we are going to be talking about 01:21 a life that was dark and sunken in shame and guilt but it 01:24 didn't start out that way. 01:26 Why don't you tell us how your story begins? 01:28 Well I was raised in a loving Filipino family, oldest of 01:32 three children and I had a very happy childhood, good Christian 01:37 parents, a house full of music and food and laughter. 01:41 It was the ideal childhood. 01:43 I was going to say, that sounds like the perfect home. 01:46 Food, music, laughter and that is basically it. 01:50 With God - a Christian home - we had worship every night 01:54 and every morning and that was just how life was. 01:57 And so okay that's the program, that's not how it goes is 02:01 it? - no. - there's a dark chapter there. - Um Hmmm 02:05 okay please, please continue. 02:07 Well what I was about six years old I was molested and 02:12 I did know how to deal with those feelings. 02:14 I didn't tell anybody, I didn't tell anybody at all. 02:17 Not parents, totally internalized. 02:19 As a six year old what you even say, you don't even 02:23 know what has happened. 02:24 You don't how to deal with things, you feel embarrassed 02:28 especially in my culture a lot of things are swept under 02:32 the rug and I didn't want to bring any shame to anybody 02:37 if I said something. 02:38 But even at six you are young enough to understand this 02:41 is wrong, this is not right something's wrong. 02:46 Yeah, yeah. So yeah I just dealing with all these 02:50 emotions but I still kept a smile on my face and pretended 02:53 like nothing ever happened and kept going. 02:57 And that is going to become a pattern for you, isn't it? 03:00 - right! Is going to happen over and over again in this 03:04 story is that there is darkness inside, but oh we will put 03:07 on this smile, everything is fine but it is not fine. 03:11 So you are six and - I was homeschooled 03:15 and we traveled around a lot in California and then I went 03:19 to regular school. - I mean - what is regular school? 03:23 I mean I went to a school where there was other students 03:26 beside my sister and brother so I was homeschooled. 03:29 Okay a regular school, keep going. 03:32 And then after I graduated from high school another 03:37 incident happened where I was molested by a Doctor. - again 03:41 - when I was 17 years old. 03:43 - a Doctor? - yeah so that was hard for me because you 03:47 place your trust in someone and this was someone we 03:51 already knew and then it happened again. 03:54 So this time did you keep it to yourself? 03:57 No this time I told my parents, I told my parents and we 04:01 went to the authorities and it was a real trying time. 04:05 It was a real difficult, difficult time. 04:07 When you told them about the second time did you also tell 04:11 them about the first time as well? 04:12 Yes I did. - were they surprised? - yes they were 04:15 surprised and they cried with me and they prayed with me 04:19 and they said we are here to support you, we love you and no 04:23 matter what happens we are here and God loves you. 04:27 Now something I did not ask you before, but I want to 04:31 quickly ask this question. 04:33 Did your parents ever speak to you about if anyone ever 04:36 touches you inappropriately, had they ever sort of 04:38 prepared you? Yes, yes they did. - really. 04:40 - they did. - before the first incident? 04:42 - in between. - in between the okay because I have 04:47 a little boy seven a little boy nine and even now we live 04:50 in such a terrible world that I have talk to my children 04:53 about things. If anyone ever touches you, and I want to 04:56 speak to the parents out there. 04:57 You need to be preparing your children even now and orient 05:02 them to appropriate and inappropriate touches. 05:05 In appropriate and inappropriate relationships, but that 05:08 is the world we live in what a terrible thing that I have 05:10 to talk to my seven and nine-year-old about this. 05:12 They are looking at me and saying okay no problem but 05:16 they don't understand, so - another thing that is just 05:19 heavy here, a Doctor? He was a Doctor and I just 05:24 remember going in and it happened and feeling so dirty, 05:30 even though I knew it wasn't my fault I was having these 05:35 thoughts, did I do anything to bring this on myself. 05:39 This happen a long time ago and now it just happened 05:44 again, what did I do? 05:46 This is a consistent pattern with people who have 05:49 experienced molestation, they try to take the guilt, 05:53 what did I do, I must deserve this, I'm dirty and you 05:57 feel soiled by something you didn't create so that's 06:01 criminal, it's terrible. 06:04 - so Jackie you mention to us earlier that 06:07 you saw counselors' and then you went away to 06:09 a university so that you could start over. 06:12 I think I talked to two counselors, I just had two 06:15 sessions and that was it and I tried to deal with it on 06:18 my own and try to keep very busy in school, music, 06:21 sports, scholastics, everything, you name it, church. 06:24 I was very involved in church and leading out as a youth 06:28 leader but inside there was still this emptiness, 06:31 this longing for something better and I knew 06:33 I was empty inside. 06:35 So what did you try and use as an identity to find your 06:40 identity? I had a very low self-esteem and I would try 06:45 to find affirmation and love in inappropriate relationships. 06:50 - as a result of the molestation? 06:52 As a result of the molestation yes. 06:54 And why is that, I mean as someone who has never 06:57 experienced it, what was it about the molestation that 07:00 made to feel like I might as well be in an inappropriate 07:04 relationship? 07:05 Well I felt like I had nothing to live for anymore, 07:06 I felt like something was taken away from me and I might 07:10 as well just go all out and be crazy or whatever, even 07:14 though people did not see that but inside I was so 07:17 conflicted and just confused and torn. 07:20 - but on the outside I'm happy piano playing Jackie. 07:25 Right, right. - like I said this is going to be 07:27 a consistent pattern here it happened when you were six 07:30 and it happened when you were a teenager and now 07:31 you are in your college years. 07:33 You said something there that I thought was very interesting 07:36 and that was that how I was busy at church, I kept myself 07:39 busy. I want to ask you the question, okay so church 07:42 but what about God? Were you in a relationship with 07:46 God at this time and how did you relate to God 07:48 or was it just church thing? 07:50 Well I thought I was in relationship with God, 07:53 but I realize now it was a form of godliness with 07:56 no power and keeping yourself busy. 08:00 I remember this acronym that someone shared with me, busy 08:04 being under Satan's yoke. - wow. - whoa that's heavy. 08:10 Yeah it is but that relationship with God it wasn't real. 08:14 It wasn't genuine. - it was more of an active busyness 08:18 around church things where it could have been active business 08:21 around anything but it just happen to be church. 08:23 Like you say it's a form of godliness but you have the 08:27 hi, oh things are great going on. - right. 08:30 Inside you are conflicted, that's the word you use. 08:33 Um hmmm, I was because all these emotions I was 08:36 experiencing just the depths of despair that I was 08:39 battling with, it was overwhelming. 08:43 So this lead you to get into a long term unhealthy 08:46 relationship tell us a little bit more about that. 08:49 I was in an unhealthy relationship for a number of 08:52 years, it reached a point where I couldn't take it anymore. 08:57 As a result of that and the molestation, from everything 09:01 happening in my past, it just builds up and I found 09:06 myself driving to the Golden gate Bridge in 09:09 San Francisco wanting to end my life. 09:12 I was driving there and I hear the devil whispering in my 09:18 head, saying you are dirty, you are worthless, you are 09:22 nothing, if people really knew what you have done and what 09:25 you have been through. - what would they think of you. 09:28 What would they think of you, do you think that they could 09:31 still love you, do you think your family could love you? 09:33 Do you think people at church can love you? 09:36 Because the family was aware of the molestation issues but 09:39 they don't know about the results of that shoved you 09:43 into these inappropriate relationships. - right, right. 09:46 So just a thought on that Shandra, briefly. 09:50 A thought on that that is very interesting is like if 09:52 something has been taken from you, if you already feel 09:54 that you have lost your cleanness, or your purity or 09:56 your innocency, it is like when a mother says to the child 10:00 don't get any mud on your church clothes. 10:03 Then they get a little bit on their whatever cuff of 10:06 their pants or a little on their knee and is like well 10:10 I'm dirty anyway. 10:11 So you ended up in that situation and now you are really 10:14 feeling that this is not just something that happened to 10:17 me, it is something I have done. 10:19 You are driving. - and something who I am is what you 10:22 are saying. - yeah, yeah. - so you get to the Golden 10:24 gate Bridge. I'm going ask another question if you don't 10:27 mind, were you going there in your mind with the intention 10:29 of jumping off - yes - or were you just driving there. 10:32 No! I had gotten off work and that was my intention, just to 10:37 end it all. - how old were you? - I was 22. 10:41 Oh Mercy, go ahead please Shandra. 10:44 Just tell us yeah. I was driving there and I remember 10:48 looking out on the water with tears streaming down 10:52 my face and I was like okay this is going to happen. 10:56 Then my cell phone rings and it is my sister. 10:59 - praise God for cell phones, I never thought 11:03 I would say that. 11:04 And that was at a time when you can talk on your phone in 11:06 the car without getting a ticket. 11:09 Yeah exactly, I'm already outside of my car. - you're 11:13 outside, your on the bridge? 11:15 Well going to the bridge, walking. - right you park 11:19 and then you have to walk. 11:20 So Beeerrrring. - my sister and she says to me older 11:25 sister where are you? - Oh wow she asked that question? 11:31 Yes she did. - this is so from Jesus. 11:34 She said where are you and I told her. 11:36 You told her you were at the Golden gate Bridge with the 11:39 intention of committing suicide? 11:41 Yes I did, I did I said you know it's not worth it. 11:46 I'm so sorry for everything I have done but I can't take 11:49 it anymore, I can't take this pain I can't take that I'm 11:53 hurting you guys and people that I love, I'm not worth it. 11:57 I'm not worth it anymore. - you were using that exact 12:01 kind of language? Yes. - what did she say? 12:03 I can't imagine calling my sister and saying hey where are 12:07 you at, oh by the way I'm here and I want to end my life. 12:11 What did she say? She said no matter what we love you, 12:16 we accept you and no matter what you have done we are here 12:20 for you. I mean that is what I needed to hear. 12:24 She did not have to say much, just to know that my sister 12:27 loved me. I knew that, I did know that. 12:29 Did you take it as a sign? - I did - you did - I did. 12:34 It was timely. I have a question for you, why did you 12:37 answer the phone? Like were you looking for a way out? 12:41 You know that it's a good question, I mean it was right 12:44 there. - a force of habit aye, pick the phone up. 12:49 Can you imagine if he would have just left it in your car, 12:51 or turned it off. - I wouldn't be here. 12:56 So at the time when the phone rings you pick it up and it 13:00 is your sister and she says where are you? 13:02 Do you take this at the moment, this is a sign that God is 13:05 reaching out to me, are you preceding that? 13:07 At that very moment I didn't think of it like that, but 13:11 afterwards I did, the Lord is trying to save me here. 13:16 I really need to think and pray, again everything was 13:21 a blur, because I was going there with the intention 13:26 of ending my life. 13:27 Well what I was going to say is that I have seen you play 13:32 the piano, and I said to somebody earlier she plays the 13:37 piano like I play it in my mind, like you have a gift 13:43 a very, very, very special gift and you have gone to 13:48 school, you have a degree in music? 13:50 - yes, I finished Music Performance 13:51 Somebody might be looking externally saying she has so 13:55 much to live for, she has so much to live for because you 13:59 have this talent but at the time you must've been in a 14:04 heap of despair and shame and guilt and lack of self-worth 14:08 to be balancing the talent that other people so obviously 14:13 see that you have. - right. - how does that work? 14:16 Well you're right outside I was making beautiful music but on 14:22 the inside was just completely chaotic. - really? - yes. 14:27 But I guess that was my way of dealing with stuff. 14:31 Just go to the piano and play a song, sing, put a smile 14:34 on your face and play for people and just keep on rolling. 14:38 Bless that even though you are dying on the inside. 14:40 - right. Just to keep my chronology straight here, 14:43 forgive me I'm kind of a linear thinker, but you are 14:46 out of this long-term relationship here at the bridge. 14:48 - oh no, I was in it, I was in it. 14:51 It wasn't a healthy situation which only making it worse 14:55 right but shortly after is when I met a wonderful couple 14:59 - so we are off the bridge now? - were off the bridge. 15:04 I go home and there is many things that happen after that 15:08 but God was restoring me, and He was delivering me out of 15:13 the situation. - there is our word restore. 15:16 So you met a couple. - I met a couple Tosh and Waddy Potlick 15:20 they invited me to do ministry - in what capacity - 15:25 as a music evangelists. As a music evangelists 15:28 I actually went on a Share Him trip with them and they 15:31 actually asked me to preach as well which was totally out 15:34 of my comfort zone but I did it in El Salvador. 15:37 It was an amazing experience. - do you speak Spanish? 15:40 A little but not really no. You preached in English? 15:45 Yeah I did, so I have been doing that for the past 2 and 15:49 1/2 years now and I think being in ministry blessed to 15:53 bless others and it has really helped me in my healing, 15:58 in my healing process and it was such a testimony to me 16:03 to see people who were young but so in Christ. 16:08 They knew who they were in Christ. 16:10 Tosh and Waddy are how old? Tosh is 27 and Waddy is 28. 16:14 Now, so when you would have met them 2 and 1/2 years ago, 16:20 25-26. - Ah hah! Praise God for own fire young people, 16:25 It was a young person that won me to Jesus. 16:28 So that's great, so we get you off the bridge and a series of 16:33 events of course but the way it is heading is that God 16:37 get you into ministry. - yes. 16:38 Now Jackie you have 2 degrees, you mentioned a music 16:42 degree but you are also trained as a nurse, correct? 16:45 - yes - have you ever used your nursing? 16:47 No I haven't used my nursing at all. 16:49 - why is that? Well I went straight into music 16:52 evangelism, it seems like whenever I try to make plans 16:56 on my own God has another way of saying wait, nope, 17:00 that's not the way you need to go. 17:02 - it's His own plan. Right it's His own plan but it 17:05 has just been an amazing and blessed experience for me. 17:09 I never thought my life would be here, you know traveling 17:12 around to nine or 10 different countries - preaching. 17:16 Preaching and music and just being part of something that 17:19 is changing heaven's population one soul at a time. 17:22 Oh, there we go you sound like a preacher. 17:25 So you said something earlier I really liked and that 17:28 was the process of healing. 17:30 Does it begin when you met Tosh and Waddy or is that the end of 17:37 it? Is that the beginning of the healing or the end 17:38 of the healing or is there a middle somewhere. 17:39 It was in the middle somewhere, I remember being curled 17:42 up in my bed in despair and I was reading the book 17:46 'Steps To Christ', a powerful book and I love that book. 17:51 I was thinking, I get it, I finally understand 17:56 God's love for me, you know 17:59 and I am just remembering the verse in Romans 8:38, 39 18:03 there is nothing, there is nothing that can separate us 18:07 from the love of God, and that just resonated with me. 18:11 To know that God loves you that much. 18:14 His verses are new every morning I was so thankful and 18:17 grateful for God giving me that book and the promises 18:21 from His word. 18:22 I've got to read that passage if you don't mind. 18:24 In many ways is a consummation of the whole first half of 18:28 Romans and it is so poetic and so theologically profound 18:33 but we have to read it. 18:34 Romans 8:38 "for I am persuaded that neither death nor life 18:38 "nor angels nor principalities nor powers nor things 18:41 "present or things to come, no height nor death nor any 18:45 "other created thing shall be able to separate us from 18:48 "the love of God which is in Christ Jesus." 18:51 Where would we be without that verse? - Amen! 18:54 Your said it was the love of God, you are there curled up on 18:57 your bed and you get it, hallelujah. 19:00 The love of God, the love of my parents and I believe 19:03 that prayer is power and I just want to encourage 19:06 whoever's watching today that prayer is power. 19:10 For you parents out there don't give up praying for your 19:13 children, do not give up. 19:15 Also for the young people out there, today is the day of 19:19 salvation choose Jesus Christ, seriously because that is 19:23 the best thing you could ever do for your life. 19:25 Now this is not just busy churchy stuff, oh I'm going to 19:31 be busy here, I'll be busy there, no, no, no. 19:33 This is the guts of religion, this is a personal saving 19:37 relationship with Jesus Christ. 19:40 The love of God has just got a hold of you, but it 19:43 doesn't have to happen, it doesn't always have to be 19:46 I was converted on June 13, 19 whatever. 19:49 For you it was a process, - it was process - meeting 19:52 a godly couple, now there's a question. 19:56 When you meet them they have a good relationship - yes. 19:59 Were you becoming a little cynical in you're thinking? 20:02 I was, you know healthy relationships don't really exist 20:06 aside from my parents. 20:07 When you first met them did you think oh yeah! 20:09 Yeah sure! - they've got something right! 20:12 Oh yeah, I was a little suspicious and cynical but 20:16 I quickly saw that the couple who is rooted in Christ 20:20 is a beautiful thing. 20:22 I was preaching in an evangelistic meeting in Florida 20:24 years ago and a lady cornered my wife in this tent we were 20:27 preaching in and sort of cornered her and said, hey what 20:30 is he really like? She said what? 20:33 What's he really like? 20:34 I enjoy his preaching but what? 20:35 She said I don't really think I understand what you are 20:38 saying? Well is he a Christian in the home? 20:42 That's so resonated with me the fact, because people they see 20:47 the persona, they see the external but when you have 20:50 had negative relationships or negative experiences in your 20:53 relationships with your own life you project that onto 20:56 others and think well that can't be. 20:58 But you meet this godly couple, a healthy relationship, 21:01 they love one another and most of all they love Jesus. 21:04 That's the process. - Jackie one time when we were 21:08 talking you mentioned earlier when were just talking now 21:11 that you are looking for identity and relationships and 21:14 that resulted in unhealthy relationships, but when 21:17 you said you were focused on your identity has changed so 21:19 where do you find your identity now? 21:21 My identity is in Christ, it is. 21:23 And the healthiest relationship of all. 21:25 And that is the best relationship we could ever have. 21:29 - Amen hallelujah sweet Jesus. Just to wrap that up. 21:33 The transition here is from someone who is externally 21:38 everything looks great, I mean yeah? - yeah. 21:40 You look beautiful of course but what I mean is that you 21:43 are putting on that hay everything is fine but inside 21:47 you are dying? - right. Now you are to the place where every 21:51 thing looks fine on the outside because it is fine on the inside 21:55 That's what we want right? - absolutely. 21:57 Jesus of course was speaking to the Pharisees and when 22:00 he was speaking to the Pharisees, to the viewers out 22:03 there and the in-house audience as well, 22:05 in-house audience and you too. 22:07 Remember when He said you clean the outside of the cup, but 22:12 inside you are full of dead men's bones, Psalms 51 God 22:17 desires truth in the inward parts, inside of us. 22:20 You had the opportunity to come earlier and to play and 22:26 sing, remember there's that music account. 22:28 This song is Jesus Won't You Hold Me in your arms 22:32 - Jesus Won't You Hold Me. 22:33 This song is so beautiful because it is not just what 22:35 you are doing on the piano but it is a reflection of 22:38 what is coming from inside. - right. 22:40 So we are going to go to that song right now, 22:42 a beautiful, beautiful song. 22:59 Well I read my Bible one morning 23:03 for my dose of daily bread 23:06 like a reflection in the mirror I saw 23:11 myself in what I read 23:14 it went straight to my heart 23:18 and cut deep in my bones 23:22 You know the very fabric of my soul 23:27 I thought of all the mistakes I've made 23:33 and felt hopeless and exposed 23:40 I don't exactly like what I see 23:46 for I recognized the chief of sinners, it's me 23:53 as I turn away to hide my shame 23:56 I noticed You were waiting 24:01 I just want You to hold me in Your arms 24:08 Jesus I just want You to hold me in Your arms 24:27 then I read how Jesus died for me 24:30 while I was yet in chains 24:34 If I simply claim His blood 24:37 then He would take my blame 24:41 and when His Father looked at me 24:44 He wouldn't see my past 24:47 He would see His Son and He'd rejoice 24:51 I'd found the way at last 24:55 although you may not like what you see 25:02 the Lord can make a thing of beauty out of you and me 25:09 if we confess and leave our sins 25:13 His mercy would flow freely 25:17 if we'd approach the throne of grace 25:20 He said we could come boldly 25:27 He is waiting to hold you in His arms 25:35 He is longing to hold you in His arms 25:43 won't you let Jesus hold you in His arms 26:06 Amen what an arresting song and viewer that question 26:10 is right for you, won't you let Jesus hold 26:14 you in His arms? 26:16 You know David when you opened this program by reading 26:18 there in Joel about the years that God will restore that the 26:22 locus has eaten, but further down in that very passage it 26:25 says that praise the name of the Lord your God who has 26:28 dealt wondrously with you and my people, Jackie listen, 26:32 shall never be put to shame. You will know that I am in 26:35 the midst of Israel. I am the Lord your God and my 26:38 people, again, say, shall never be put to shame. 26:42 He said that twice, it's absolutely beautiful. 26:46 You know that really resonates with me because again 26:50 I was feeling so ashamed and dirty and sinful but praise 26:55 God He restores and He delivers and the healing process 26:59 again was through me being involved in helping others. 27:03 Being involved in ministry. - taking the focus off you 27:06 and putting on to others. - right, right, less focus 27:09 on myself and just trying to share that love of Christ 27:12 with those around me. 27:13 You know I have gone to college for 2 degrees, but then I went 27:19 to Bible college also to further enhance my experience with 27:23 ministry and the best blessing is I went to a Bible 27:26 college called AFCO and I learned so much just being that 27:31 realm of helping others, it really changed my life. 27:35 We have been talking to someone today who is a beautiful 27:38 person but she went through such a dark time and maybe you 27:41 have gone through a dark time. 27:42 She dealt with molestation and maybe you have dealt with 27:45 molestation and I want to tell you today that it is not 27:48 your fault, you are not to blame, you do not need to feel 27:52 dirty or shameful you just need to come to Christ. 27:55 Please be in contact with us, e-mail us at: 27:59 let Jesus hold you in His arms. |
Revised 2014-12-17