Participants: Jay Rosario & Daniel McGrath (Host), Michael Eihm
Series Code: E
Program Code: E000027
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00:18 Hello again, and welcome to another
00:20 exciting segment of "Engage." 00:22 In this series of programs we've been addressing 00:24 a lot of very relevant issues 00:27 facing young adults all over the world. 00:30 Joining me today is my good friend Dan McGrath. 00:32 Dan, how's it going? Pretty good. 00:33 How are you? Doing all right. 00:34 So, Dan, what are we gonna be talking about today? 00:35 Well, today we're looking at faith versus feeling. 00:38 A lot of young people today 00:39 are struggling with their faith. 00:42 Their experience doesn't always 00:43 match up with their theology. 00:45 And so the tendency is to give up 00:46 the theology for the experience. 00:48 When in reality, we need to learn how to match the two 00:50 because the Bible speaks a lot about that. 00:52 And, uh, we have very special guest today. 00:54 His name is Michael Eihm. 00:55 And Michael we're glad you're here. 00:56 Thanks for coming. How're you doing today? 00:59 I'm really good. How's it going, Michael? 01:01 Michael, we're very happy that you're here. 01:02 Um, I know you. And Dan knows you, of course. 01:06 Michael, we've been-- this is of course 01:08 a young adult program, we've been 01:10 addressing young adults have had 01:12 many different guests that have been young adults. 01:15 And how--do you consider yourself a young adult? 01:19 Absolutely. Absolutely? 01:21 If I feel that from the ages of 01:23 one to ninety-nine, you're a young adult. 01:25 Oh, well, then you qualify. You qualify that. 01:27 So, Michael, for those that are not familiar with who you are, 01:30 maybe just kind of share a little bit about 01:33 what you're currently doing, where you're from, 01:35 just a little so we get a gist of who you are. 01:37 Well, currently I live in 01:40 a tiny little box in Berrien Springs. 01:43 Box 403. Tiny little box? 01:44 That's right. No, I'm in Berrien Springs. 01:47 What're you doing in Berrien Springs? 01:48 I'm at Andrews University. You're at Andrews University? 01:51 And you're not in your 20s? I'm not in my 20s. 01:53 And you're at Andrews University? 01:54 I'm at Andrews University. Wow. 01:55 Undergraduate. Undergraduate. 01:56 You're taking theology? Awesome. Yeah. 01:58 Went back to school to finish up 01:59 of what God had started in me. 02:00 And are you originally from Berrien Springs? 02:02 No, I'm not. Where are you originaally from? 02:04 Wisconsin. You're from Wisconsin. 02:05 So not too far from Berrien Springs? No. 02:07 So I understand that not only are you 02:09 a student in the undergraduate program there, 02:11 but you're also involved in something there with-- 02:15 what are you involved with? 02:16 I'm the president of the AMA which is 02:18 Andrews Ministerial Association. 02:20 It's a club of the religion department there. 02:22 Okay, so is it kind of like a campus club 02:23 that facilitates programs, events? 02:26 Yeah, we work with the young theology 02:29 and religion students. Okay. 02:31 And we're bringing programming to them 02:32 and pastors of the campus to talk about issues that face 02:36 them or that they will be facing in the ministry. 02:39 Nice, nice. Well, Michael, 02:41 we're really excited to have you and, of course, 02:42 because of the nature of our program, well, you know, 02:45 time is very limited but we are gonna 02:47 talk about your story a little bit. 02:48 And we're also gonna kinda talk a little about 02:50 this whole issue with faith versus feeling. 02:52 And how young people get overwhelmed by feelings 02:54 and sometimes it's very difficult 02:56 to make rational decisions, but I understand 02:59 for those that are not gonna able to 03:01 listen to the whole program. 03:03 And because we're not gonna have the time 03:04 to get into all the intricate details. 03:06 I understand that your story has been published 03:09 in a magazine is what I've heard. 03:11 Is this true? What magazine is your story in? 03:13 Well, it's a magazine that was published 03:16 by the communications department at Andrews. 03:18 It's called "Envision Magazine." 03:19 And in it, they have different stories 03:23 of the students on campus. 03:24 And it is written and edited 03:27 and all put together by students. 03:31 And, yeah, so my story was in it. 03:32 So some of the-- not only are there-- 03:36 'cause I've had actually seen the magazine. 03:38 So not only is your story there, 03:39 but you also have some pictures in there. 03:41 Oh, we're gonna talk about that. 03:42 So we're gonna talk a little bit about that 03:43 because when I saw the magazine, 03:44 I said, "That, that cannot be Michael." 03:46 And indeed it was Michael. 03:48 So, Michael, let's talk, let's start by talking 03:50 a little about this issue with feeling. 03:51 What is it about feelings that always seem to detour 03:57 young Christians in their faith? 03:59 You know, why is it that we tend to, 04:01 as young adults, always fall into feeling? 04:03 Now, of course, you're not--you're young at heart. 04:06 And, of course, but you've been-- 04:07 you've been a young adult. 04:08 You know the challenges of that. 04:11 Why is that feel-- why is it that feelings 04:12 are so easily--why are we a easy victim, I guess, 04:16 young adults for feelings to kinda take over 04:19 and just kinda lead us out of control? 04:21 Well, I think it's natural that we want to feel things. 04:23 We want to taste things. We want to see things. 04:27 We want to be like Thomas. 04:29 The Doubting Thomas as he's called 04:31 who needed to feel or see Jesus 04:34 and His scars and all that, you know? 04:35 And so we base everything on that. 04:37 Interesting. So we're kind of like, 04:38 we wanna see things tangible. 04:40 We wanna be able to touch and feel, sometimes-- 04:42 And then we believe. And then we believe. 04:43 And sometimes when we don't have that there, 04:45 we tend to lose faith and then 04:47 just kind of roll our feelings. 04:49 So tell us about maybe your home life. 04:51 What was it like, you know, growing up? 04:52 Did you grow up an Adventist? 04:53 Or, you know, tell us little bit about yourself. 04:55 Yeah, I grew up an Adventist. 04:57 Though my mom was the Adventist. 05:00 My dad wasn't stepfather. 05:02 And, uh, went to public school most of time. 05:06 And then went to Wisconsin Academy my senior year. 05:09 And then I went across the lake and I was 05:11 at Andrews University. So wait a second. 05:13 You went to Andrews University twice? 05:17 Now this is your second time at Andrews University? 05:20 So, what did you originally go to Andrews University for? 05:22 What were you studying? Theology. 05:24 You were taking theology? Really? 05:26 So how long did you last in Andrews University? 05:28 Uh, not long. I was there for about a semester. 05:31 I left. Um, I was having issues, and, uh, with faith. 05:36 And I'm looking at everyone else and I'm just not having 05:39 or feeling what they're feeling. 05:41 You know? So evidently, 05:42 if I'm not feeling what they're feeling, I left. 05:45 So then you went to Andrews University 05:47 and then you just weren't-- 05:49 you were having an issue with your feeling. 05:51 It didn't feel right. So why didn't it feel right? 05:54 What was it about the environment 05:56 or even the beliefs that didn't jive with your feelings? 05:59 Well, you know, when they would sing songs, you know, 06:01 and we'd go to chapel and everyone's singing, 06:02 I wasn't feeling what they were singing. 06:04 When we sit in class and people would 06:07 passionately talk about things and about, 06:10 you know, these realms of God and all that. 06:11 I wasn't feeling that. And so I felt if 06:13 I wasn't feeling it, I didn't have faith. 06:15 It wasn't for me. Wow. 06:17 So I left. So where did you go? 06:20 You left, where'd you go to? 06:22 I went to Madison, Wisconsin. 06:24 And I thought I would go to school there 06:26 and get involved with a sports program 06:29 and, you know, finish a degree there. 06:32 So when you went to a Public University, 06:34 did you--did you gain your faith or what happened? 06:37 I never made it to classes. 06:39 I started hanging out in clubs there. 06:42 And I started going for other feeling there. 06:44 I started feeling what the world was feeling. 06:46 So it would be like drinks and, you know-- 06:49 So you started drinking, started taking drugs. 06:51 Right. Where did you end up working? 06:54 Well, that took me, I ended up working at a night club. 06:58 And I had just more an interest in rock and roll. 07:00 And so basically, in short, went in rock and roll 07:04 and for 30 years I was in rock and roll. 07:07 For the better part of 30 years 07:09 and I toured with rock groups. 07:10 So how did your mother-- you know, of course, 07:14 your mother is the religious one in the home. 07:16 Um, you went to Andrews, you left to go to school 07:22 that you eventually didn't make it to your classes, et cetera. 07:24 How did she react to your deviation and your 07:28 detour and all of these vices and different things? 07:32 Well, of course, you know, like all mothers, you know, 07:33 I mean, she was a little disappointed. 07:36 But as a loving Christian, she kept praying 07:41 and she kept encouraging me to consider 07:44 different things in that, you know. 07:46 And write me nice letters and, 07:48 you know, that I still have actually. 07:52 But, yeah, I just continued on and, 07:55 you know, it was pretty sad at points. 07:56 I think that as I went through life 07:59 what I had put her through. 08:00 I mean, 'cause I would call her up-- 08:01 I had a very open relationship with her. 08:03 And she says, "Oh, tell me what's going on in your life." 08:05 And so I would. And sometimes, 08:08 I think there's some things that should not be said. 08:10 You know, because it really tried her. 08:13 So were you the only sib-- were you the only child? 08:16 Or did you have siblings as well? 08:18 Yes, with my mother and my stepfather, 08:22 there was me, of course. 08:24 And then I had a sister. 08:26 Or have a sister named Randi. 08:28 And then I've, uh, I met my real father 08:30 a few years later and then I've got 08:32 a whole family over in Colorado. 08:35 So that's another story. That's another story. 08:38 Well, it sounds like, you know, 08:40 what I'm hearing you say is that you went to Andrews 08:43 as an Adventist in theology thinking maybe 08:46 you were gonna be a pastor in ministry for sometime. 08:49 And then your experience wasn't matching up 08:51 with what you thought you--it should be. 08:54 You know, your feelings were different, 08:55 so you left and you went to a Public University. 08:58 Then you kind of experimented 08:59 with the wrong crowd or the wrong drugs, 09:01 and you ended up in rock and roll. 09:02 Now from that time forward, are you searching 09:05 to have that feeling, that longing? 09:08 You know, what's going on inside? 09:10 Absolutely not. 09:12 It's funny is, you know, these feelings of the world, 09:14 I mean, they over-talked me. 09:18 I mean, you know, I started getting more involved, 09:21 you know, with the drinking. 09:22 And that all came on real slow, it wasn't--I just, 09:25 you know, walked from Andrews and I walked in the bar 09:27 and said, "Here, give me a drink." 09:28 So it was gradual. It was very gradual. 09:30 It actually started out with water. 09:31 And then it built up from that. 09:34 You went to the bars and asked for a glass of water? 09:36 Yeah, a glass of water with a little umbrella in it. 09:39 That's what I thought it was until 09:40 someone said, "Hey, uh, here." 09:41 And slid me a drink over and said, "Here, have this." 09:45 And it was a vodka. 09:47 And, well, I drank that back and spit it out, 09:49 not realizing that it was not water, you know, vodka's clear. 09:53 But anyways, enough about that, 09:56 it just kind of took me down that path 09:58 and I just got involved in 09:59 more and more of the music and the lifestyle. 10:02 And it's a very self-indulgent lifestyle. 10:06 You know, music, and basically anything 10:08 that's outside of God becomes self-indulgence. 10:11 You know, because we look within ourselves. 10:14 We build everything on feelings. 10:16 And that's what I was doing. 10:17 So my whole life was for 30 years 10:19 was built on what made me feel good. 10:22 What made you feel good. Yeah. 10:23 Now did you always feel good though? 10:25 When you were involved-- is it, was it 20 years, 10:28 how long were you in this lifestyle? 10:29 Yeah, I'd say- I would say, um, 10:30 I would say...been in rock and roll about 17 years, 10:33 you know, 20 years of-professionally. 10:36 'Cause it sounds like you kinda pursued 10:38 this lifestyle because it felt good. 10:39 It feels good. Right. 10:41 But did it always feel good within those 17 years? 10:46 Yeah, I mean, yeah, I mean, it did, I mean, it's like, 10:50 you know, I mean, there are things that, 10:51 you know, you-- if you weren't feeling good, 10:53 you take a pill for this. 10:55 You know, off you-- So then when moments came 10:57 where you didn't feel good, like maybe the morning 10:59 after a big party or what have you, 11:01 then you took something 11:02 to kind of take the bad feeling away. 11:06 So it's almost like you were escaping the feelings 11:09 that sometimes would emerge, that weren't good. 11:11 Yeah, well, those, I mean, you would have feelings. 11:13 I remember being at an ACDC concert 11:15 and standing in the wings and not too long 11:19 after I left Andrews and I hadthought, 11:22 it was a Friday night. 11:23 And I remember looking out over the crowd, 11:25 I see all their lighters on and I thought, man, 11:27 tonight they're probably back at Andrews, former students. 11:31 They're, you know, pastors young-- 11:33 to be young pastors, had their shoes all shined 11:36 and they're in bed and they're looking forward 11:37 to waking up for being involved in the Sabbath. 11:39 While I'm here, you know, 11:41 hundreds of miles away partying. 11:43 And this was to be my life, and those thoughts 11:47 would--I'm not gonna say they didn't escape me, 11:49 because they were always there. 11:50 The Sabbath issues were there. 11:51 I mean, you couldn't help but think those for some reason. 11:55 But pretty soon, I just got to the point that, um, 11:58 when you asked about my mom and I called her up 12:00 and I said, "Listen, take my name off the books. 12:04 You know, get a hold of the church and have me removed." 12:07 By that time, I was doing stuff like Ozzy Osbourne. 12:10 It was in the newspaper, the things that he was doing. 12:12 And my mom was saying, "This guy, uh, 12:14 he's not really living right." 12:17 And I said, "Yeah, take my name off the books," 12:19 because I didn't want to have this with the lifestyle 12:23 that I was leading be represented, I mean, 12:28 I actually, point blank is if something happened to me, 12:30 if I died, I didn't want my obituary to say, 12:31 "Oh, he was an Adventist." Right. 12:33 Because I love, you know, my friends were back at school 12:38 and my mom and all that, that I did not wanna blight 12:41 the Adventist with my type of lifestyle. 12:43 So take me off the book. Wow. 12:45 So now in that lifestyle, of course, 12:47 I understand you traveled all over the world. 12:49 Well, not necessarily all over the world. 12:51 But mostly, you know, North America, South America. 12:55 You know, didn't make it to Dominican. 12:56 So at least in the western hemisphere. 12:59 You traveled North America and South America. 13:01 Yeah. And you were involved in what? 13:03 What were you doing traveling? 13:04 Well, basically there was three things I was involved with. 13:06 Primarily, I was involved with merchandising. 13:08 And so I was do merchandise, uh, T-shirts, 13:10 and stuff like that for the bands. 13:12 For the rockstar bands. Yeah. Okay. 13:14 And then the second thing that I would do, is called... 13:20 Well, I guess you'd say 13:22 tour management, one of the things that-- 13:24 So you're the one who answered the phone calls, 13:25 kind of set up the gigs. Right. 13:27 Make sure the rooms are of-- you know, 13:28 the hotel rooms or flights. 13:32 So you were an important person in the rock band, 13:34 'cause if it wasn't for you they had no place to stay. 13:36 I was a glorified babysitter. 13:37 You were a glorified babysitter. 13:38 That's a good way of putting it. 13:40 What was the third thing, that, uh-- 13:41 Well, the other thing I was gonna say 13:43 was that I worked with corporate sponsorship. 13:45 And so at that time, especially in 80s- 13:47 I'm dating myself here-is, um- 13:50 We were alive back then, don't worry. 13:51 Yeah. You guys were-- Mid-80s. 13:55 And, uh, yeah, well, anyways, 13:57 the sports-the sponsorship at that time 14:00 involved with corporations like Rolling Stones 14:04 with like, Jovan, um, cologne and all that. 14:07 No one probably knows what that is anymore. 14:09 Or David Bowie with the Sony Music, Holla Note, 14:14 Canada Dry, you know, various groups 14:17 were involved with these, uh, corporations. 14:21 And so I would go out as a corporate liaison 14:24 between the businessmen, the suits, and the long-hairs. 14:28 The long hairs. And, uh, yeah. 14:29 So, I mean, Michael, that sounds like a blast. 14:32 Sounds like you were living the time of your life. 14:35 What happened? What happened? 14:36 How did you-- in the 17 years or plus 14:39 that you were involved in that. What happened? 14:41 What happened the 17th year, uh, so to speak? 14:44 All right. 14:45 Um, well, I'll keep this short, 14:47 'cause let's save it for a book, but-- 14:49 Or the magazine that's published. 14:50 Or the magazine, yeah. 14:51 Um, basically is that one night in a club 14:55 after many years of what I've been through, 14:58 you know, like five years ago, six years ago. 15:01 I, was, in an adult nightclub, running an adult nightclub. 15:07 And I started considering where my life had taken me. 15:11 And I was also considering the people that I was 15:14 working with in where their lives were at. 15:16 And I started realizing that every night, 15:19 different person on the stage or sitting around them 15:22 or dancing on the stage or the bartenders and all that. 15:24 But same kind of conversations going on. 15:27 You know, every night different person, same conversation. 15:30 And the din of all this, you know, 15:32 started to effect me and I thought it was all vanity. 15:35 And I thought they are all vain. 15:38 And of course, we never look at ourselves-- 15:39 Right. Outward thing. 15:41 We look at the outward thing. 15:42 Until one night I applied that to myself. 15:46 You know, am I vain? 15:47 And it shot back to me, saying, 15:48 "Well, you're the vainest one of them all." 15:50 And I went home at night, 15:55 thinking about this, put on the TV. 15:57 Nothing on TV but a black gospel preacher. 16:00 And he started talking about vanity. 16:03 And took me to Ecclesiastes. 16:05 You know, and so I ended up reading 16:07 Ecclesiastes and it really spoke to me. 16:09 And after that, several months after that, I mean, 16:12 I left the club actually about five weeks later, 16:15 just walked out on all that. 16:17 And then six months later, I got ready to get baptized. 16:21 Wow. So wait a second, wait a second. 16:23 Wow, that was a bit fast. Yes. 16:25 Six months after that, you were ready to get baptized. How? 16:29 How would you-how'd you get prepared for baptism? 16:30 Well, I had left club. 16:35 And then I just decided that what I'll do for four months 16:38 is that I'll do is read the Bible and work out at a gym. 16:41 And that's how I started doing that, 16:42 but then I decided that I need a community. 16:44 I had answer--or I had questions I needed to ask. 16:48 And so I didn't want nothing to do with the Adventists. 16:51 Right. Growing up as an Adventist- 16:52 Adventist and all that, 16:53 you know, I didn't want to do that. 16:55 You know, I had some issues there. 16:56 And so I went to a nondenominational church. 16:59 Long story short on that. 17:02 What's crazy is that they turned out to be 17:04 a bunch of ex-Adventists. Oh, wow. 17:06 So you went--So let me understand this correctly. 17:08 So you didn't want--nothing to do with the Adventists, 17:11 you went to a nondenominational church 17:13 to avoid the Adventists, and when you went in there, 17:15 you found a lot of former Adventists. 17:16 And as I was studying with them, Jay, 17:19 is that I thought, okay, God led me here, of course, 17:21 and I'm thinking, as I'll study with them, 17:22 I'll find out what's all wrong with the Adventists. 17:24 And didn't want nothing to do with them, you know, 17:27 I couldn't but help get into these conversations with them, 17:30 because they were still hurting about things 17:33 and stuff and their decision 17:34 was to leave was for various reasons. 17:37 But I would find out what they were and I ended up 17:41 studying my way back in to Adventist. 17:43 Amen. You know, because-- 17:46 Well, can you, you know, just tell us a little bit, you know, 17:49 maybe you have something to share from the Bible 17:50 about how faith and feeling should work because, 17:54 you know, obviously, from your experience, 17:56 something wasn't matching up, and now it is. 17:58 And you're back at Andrews again, you know, 18:00 studying theology which you've put off for 30 years. 18:03 And fulfilling the Lord's call. 18:05 But what is it about faith and feeling that 18:06 you think our viewers might, you know, need to know today? 18:10 Well, I'ma tell you first, is that we don't get our 18:12 faith from looking at other people. Okay? 18:16 Our faith comes from the Word of God. 18:18 Our faith should be grounded in God. 18:22 And as we read the Bible, 18:25 we need to believe what's in that Bible. Okay? 18:28 And then hold that dear to us 18:29 when contradictory things come up, 18:31 we need to go back to the Bible again. 18:34 But for the viewing audience, 18:37 I would have to say is that they need to hold on to God, 18:41 and not the things of this world. 18:45 Meaning that, staying focused on Him. 18:50 Not--not supplanting that with, 18:53 "Oh, I'm not feeling good today, 18:54 therefore God doesn't love me." 18:55 God is always there. God always loves you. 18:57 You know, and God is there 18:58 in our Bibles if we study that, yeah. 19:01 So it seems that what you're saying is that 19:02 our feelings are very inconsistent by nature. 19:05 Right. You know, 19:06 one day I wake up and I'm just whistling very, very happy. 19:09 The next day is I wake up and "don't come near me." 19:12 You have a cold. Oh, yeah, 19:14 maybe I have a cold. 19:16 But I think what you're saying is that 19:18 the Bible is something that is sure, 19:20 something that is consistent, something that doesn't change. 19:24 You know, the weather changes our moods, 19:26 but the weather doesn't change the word. 19:28 So I think if I hear you correctly, 19:29 I think what you're saying is if our faith 19:32 is based on the word and our feelings, 19:34 the word of God is something that is constant 19:37 and it's not gonna have that up and down 19:40 inconsistency, but rather, 19:42 is going to be something solid. 19:44 It's gonna be something substantial. 19:46 Right. Did I hear you right? 19:47 Is that kinda what you're saying? 19:48 Exactly, exactly. 19:49 In fact, I had a text here that I brought, 19:51 that's James 1:22 and in James 1:22, 19:59 it says, "But be doers of the word, 20:01 and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves. 20:04 For if anyone is a hearer of the word, and not a doer, 20:07 he is like a man observing his natural face in a mirror." 20:11 And I think that has a lot of application there. 20:13 You know, that we need to be 20:15 looking into the face of God and in the Bible. 20:19 And doing what He says that we find in the word here. 20:23 And not by what the natural world tells us to do. 20:26 Yeah, I like this Bible text. 20:28 You know, we need to be hearers-- 20:29 we're not just hearers, but doers. 20:31 And the very next verse is because, you know, 20:33 if you observe yourself, you go away and then you 20:35 immediately forget what kind of man you are. 20:36 Right. That's right. 20:37 When you look in the mirror, you forget what you 20:39 look like or, you know, you forget how much makeup 20:41 you put on or didn't put on, you know, 20:42 for the TV show, you forget. 20:45 And so, but if you're doing it, 20:46 it's always whether you're remembering it and living it. 20:50 Now, Michael, let's look at the counter aspect to this. 20:54 You know, feelings are important. 20:57 You know, sometimes feelings 20:58 are a gauge that something is not right. 21:01 You know, you mentioned a cold or sometimes you feel. 21:04 You call in. Right? 21:05 I'm sure you call in to your professors and say, 21:07 "Oh, professor, I'm not feeling good." 21:10 And usually, that doesn't fly, right? 21:12 But sometimes when we say, you know, 21:13 "I'm not feeling good," feelings are sometimes 21:15 a good gauge that something is not right. 21:18 Something is wrong. So how do we differentiate? 21:21 The young adults thinking, well, wait a second, 21:22 you know, I mean, biologically, 21:23 if I don't feel good, that means that 21:25 there's something biologically wrong. 21:27 How come it doesn't work that way spiritually, 21:29 or does it work spiritually? 21:30 That's a good question. Can it work spiritually? 21:32 Yes, and yes, it does. 21:34 How I would answer that, first of all, 21:35 we have to look as faith as an action word. 21:38 As we said there to be doers of the word, right? 21:41 It's an action word, okay? 21:43 Feelings aren't an action word. They are what causes action. 21:47 And a lot of times, in most times, 21:49 feelings of the natural world are the wrong actions. 21:52 The wrong choices. And so-- 21:55 So then faith would be proactive. 21:56 Feelings would be reactive. Correct, correct. 21:59 So faith is actually like an engine. 22:01 Feelings would be like the cars or the caboose behind it. 22:05 Some days they may be there and some days they may not. 22:07 But we don't base the train upon the caboose. 22:10 That's not what's pushing the train. 22:12 It's the engine of faith that propels us forward. 22:17 You know, towards God. 22:18 And this is what's an important thing about 22:21 is that if we have this faith in God, 22:23 this engine of faith in God, it's the driving force 22:27 that's within us for us as Christians. 22:29 We don't need to see certain things to accept God, you know? 22:35 We have this faith that leads us forward. 22:39 And any feelings that come after that out of faith, 22:43 you know, is possible and it does happen. 22:46 I mean, I know that there have been times 22:49 that were that I will think about things 22:52 what God has done for me or what Christ has done for me. 22:54 You know, where he pulled me 22:56 out of the lifestyle that I was in. 22:58 And my heart can weep because of the things 23:02 when I realize, you know, that what I have done, 23:05 it might have hurt someone and, um, from my actions. 23:08 And so now my feelings then are more 23:11 feelings of repentance, you know, 23:12 the feelings of joy because-- 23:14 Which are positive feelings. They're positive, yeah. 23:16 So it seems what you're saying is that feelings 23:18 actually can be trained, if I'm hearing you correctly. 23:21 That sometimes when you focus on 23:22 faith and not feelings, when you focus on your faith, 23:25 your feelings are gonna be conditioned, 23:27 they're gonna be transformed, and they're gonna changed. 23:29 So now you're gonna feel the right feelings 23:31 of repentance when you need to repent. 23:33 The right feelings of joy when you need to have joy. 23:35 And I think Biblically, when you look at 23:39 the Bible characters, there are times 23:41 where it didn't feel good to do the will of God. 23:43 It didn't feel good to move on forward. 23:45 It didn't feel good for Moses to go into water and say, 23:49 you know, have the faith that it was actually gonna split. 23:51 It didn't feel good for Abraham 23:53 to go up that mountain to sacrifice his son. 23:55 But what came after was a flood of 23:58 awesome feelings that were divine, 24:00 that were celestial, that were inspiring 24:02 and I think if a young person is struggling with feelings 24:06 to do something that they know needs to be done, 24:09 I think one encouragement 24:11 is to remember that after you do that, 24:13 there's gonna be amazing feelings. 24:16 So don't get consumed by the feelings 24:18 that you have prior to doing what you need to do. 24:22 Yeah, I think that's a good point. 24:24 I know sometimes, you know, I don't always feel like 24:27 preaching on Sabbath morning, 24:28 but I'm a pastor and that's what I have to do. 24:31 And I have to do it every Sabbath. 24:32 So there's some Sabbaths where I just wake up 24:34 and I wish that I did not have to preach and-- 24:37 We should've put a DVD in or something. 24:38 You know, I wish, or I've had-- 24:40 realized that I was gonna feel this way 24:41 and got a guest speaker or got 24:42 Jay Rosario to come to my church. 24:44 And, you know, but sometimes I think 24:46 the devil will put that feeling there because 24:48 he knows that this sermon is gonna have greater results. 24:50 Absolutely. Right. 24:51 And we need to realize through faith, 24:53 we can see through the feeling--the bad feeling. 24:57 And press forward, because we know 24:59 that the Lord is working. Michael, in 30 seconds, 25:02 what message could you give to somebody 25:04 viewing our program right now that is struggling? 25:07 They're kind of tied down with their feelings. 25:10 They want to do what is right, but they're just feel-- 25:12 they're just 100% out of control, 25:14 and their feelings are kind of at the driver seat. 25:16 What's the message that you could give them 25:18 practical message of counsel 25:20 from an experienced person like yourself? 25:22 First I would say, is pray. 25:25 Pray, pray, pray that God will impress upon you. 25:29 Impress upon your heart. You know. 25:34 To let go of those feelings and go to the faith. 25:37 Go to the faith that God is there. 25:38 That God is going to bring you through this. 25:41 He's always there. 25:44 That says basically what I'd have to say to that, 25:46 you know, that have faith in God 25:47 that He will pull you through. 25:49 And abandon those feelings. Abandon 'em. 25:53 Just like that, it's almost like 25:55 having the right perspective, like, if you look at this, 25:58 you're gonna feel like this. Right. 26:00 If you look at that, you're gonna feel like this. 26:01 If I look at the possibility, 26:03 if I just dwell upon the possibility it's a failure 26:06 and discouragement, I'm gonna feel that way. 26:08 But if I focus on Christ, 26:10 focus on the possibilities of victory, 26:11 focus on-and that's why the word is so powerful 26:13 because when you focus on it, 26:15 it has a positive effect on your life 26:18 and you begin to feel the proper feelings. 26:22 I think there's so much that could be touched 26:23 and once again I just wanna encourage 26:26 those that are viewing to look up 26:28 the Envision magazines to get the rest of story. 26:31 Michael, we're so happy that you're with us. 26:34 And we're really blessed to have you. 26:35 And you're back at Andrews and you're gonna be 26:36 graduating very, very soon, hopefully very, very soon. 26:41 May be there's somebody watching this program 26:42 who can definitely resonate with this 26:44 issue of faith versus feeling. 26:46 Maybe you're a young person that knows that 26:49 you have to do something that God is asking you to do. 26:53 Maybe God is bringing conviction upon your hearts. 26:55 Maybe you feel overwhelmed. 26:57 Maybe you feel like you can't move forward 27:00 because you're surrounded by your feelings. 27:02 Whatever the situation may be, 27:03 hopefully this program has encouraged you 27:05 that if you focus your attention on Christ, 27:08 if you focus your attention on positive things, 27:10 then your feelings, right feelings will follow. 27:13 Look at the powerful examples of scripture, 27:16 look at Moses, look at Abraham, 27:17 but more importantly, look at Jesus. 27:19 Jesus was on the cross of Calvary. 27:21 And prior to going to the cross of Calvary, 27:23 He was in the Garden of Gethsemane 27:24 and it didn't feel good to him to move forward. 27:26 In fact, he prayed three times 27:27 "my father, my father is it possible? 27:29 If it is possible, let this cup pass from me." 27:31 But then He said, "Not my will, 27:33 but your will be done." 27:34 And because of the joy that was set before Him, 27:36 because He saw the results of what the cross 27:38 was going to do, He saw millions of redeemed people 27:41 saved because of that sacrifice. 27:43 And that's exactly what we need to do. 27:45 We need to follow in that same example. 27:47 Look ahead by faith and recognize that after you 27:50 obey the Lord, there's gonna be a flood 27:53 of powerful and positive feelings. 27:55 Thank you so much for tuning in. 27:57 Hopefully, we can see you next time. 27:59 God bless you. Take care. |
Revised 2014-12-17