Participants:
Series Code: GFF
Program Code: GFF000001S
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00:01 Is it reasonable to believe in the existence of God,
00:04 and what about science? 00:05 Does it support or not support to believe in a Creator? 00:09 And what about the honest questions that agnostics 00:12 and atheists ask? 00:14 Are there reasonable answers to those questions? 00:17 Come explore with us the controversial topic of God: 00:21 Fact or Fiction? 01:19 Welcome to a respectful conversation 01:21 about the existence of God. 01:24 My guest today is Subodh Pandit, 01:27 who is a physician. 01:29 He's a fascinating person. He's from India. 01:31 He is the author of a couple of books 01:34 that I've read both of them cover to cover, 01:37 very interesting. 01:38 Book one is called Does God really exist? 01:41 The subtitle is, Is Theism Rational? 01:44 Is Evolution Truly Scientific? 01:46 And then book two is called The Weight of Evidence, 01:49 and the subtitle is Religions Compared Candidly 01:52 The Basis for Belief. 01:53 Both of these books have an umbrella title called 01:57 Come Search With Me. 01:59 Subodh Pandit is the president of an organization 02:03 called Search Seminars International. 02:05 He's traveled the world over 02:07 and he's spoken at university campuses. 02:10 And he talks to students about the big issues 02:13 of God evolution, faith, science, and he's just... 02:19 He's a very interesting man. 02:21 So, Subodh, thank you for being here with me. 02:25 My pleasure. It's great to be here, Steve. 02:27 Yes, you've been here for a couple days 02:29 and the weather's cold outside right now. 02:31 You're in the snowy land of North Idaho. 02:34 Very different from where I come from, 02:36 I mean, not so different but quite different. 02:38 Yes. 02:39 Well, I grew up in Los Angeles 02:40 and so this is very different too for me. 02:43 But I've lived here for the last almost 10 years 02:46 and I've come to enjoy all the seasons. 02:49 So anyway, let's just get right into our... 02:52 I want to have people get to know you a little better, 02:56 and then we'll talk about the 13 Part Series 02:59 that we just finished that you've just finished. 03:02 So just tell us a little bit about your background, 03:05 and what you do? 03:08 Professionally, I'm a medical doctor, 03:10 specialist in internal medicine. 03:12 I was born and brought up in India. 03:13 Now, India really is a land of tremendous diversity, 03:17 food, language, culture, religion. 03:21 It has the largest population of Hindus. 03:24 Very few people realize that India has about 03:27 the second largest population of Muslims. 03:29 We have more Muslims in India 03:31 than the whole Arabian Peninsula put together, 03:33 Jainism, Buddhism, Zoroastrianism, 03:36 so that is the background where I grew up. 03:40 So naturally, I had a lot of questions 03:42 when I was growing up and I did ask them. 03:46 I went on asking people, kept notes on what they said 03:50 and that is what I put together 03:52 in the presentations that I make 03:54 and part of that came into our 13 Part Series here. 03:59 Now, your specialty as a physician is what? 04:02 Internal medicine, but for the last 10 years 04:05 of my practice, I was an emergency room doctor, 04:09 an internist and the emergency room doctor. 04:11 Okay. And so what... 04:14 You know, as a doctor, now you are a speaker, 04:17 and you're an author, and you're the president 04:20 of Search Seminars 04:22 and you're tackling the big issues 04:25 of whether there's a God or not. 04:27 How did you shift from one to the other? 04:30 You know, in a sense, it was not a shift. 04:32 Like I said, I grew up in that crucible of mixture. 04:36 And these questions kept in the back of my mind 04:38 playing over and over again. 04:41 And so when I finished medical school, 04:42 I decided to let those questions 04:44 come to the fore 04:46 and see if I could tackle those questions. 04:48 And if there was a reasonable answer 04:51 to those big questions 04:52 that really vex a lot of people, including me. 04:56 So I didn't really shift out. 04:58 I just added this to what I was doing. 05:00 And as I was practicing, I would speak to people 05:04 and get to this topic as well. 05:07 And since this was interesting, a lot of information came in. 05:12 I just slowly transitioned 05:14 to have a focus on this later on. 05:17 Okay. 05:18 Do you still consider yourself 05:20 to be a searcher or have you arrived? 05:23 Do you now have all the answers 05:25 that you've got it all sewed up, you know? 05:27 That is an interesting question. 05:31 You know what I found when I was doing this search 05:34 that the attitude of a seeker or an inquirer 05:38 is one of the most delightful attitudes 05:41 one can have. 05:42 And even as you find things, you realize that 05:45 there's something more that you can get to. 05:48 But I have to state that, you know, 05:51 once you ask a question 05:52 and you come to a certain conclusion 05:55 because of the information and the evidence, 05:58 then at that point you can make a decision. 06:02 But that does not mean you have stopped searching. 06:05 So that's where I am. 06:08 I had asked some questions, looked for the evidences, hey, 06:13 there's some good evidence to answer my question. 06:16 So I've made up my mind on those points, 06:20 but I'm always going to be an inquirer. 06:22 That's good. 06:24 It seems to me that when you talk to somebody 06:27 that gives the impression that they know everything, 06:33 you know, it doesn't really speak 06:35 well for them as a person. 06:38 And I think we all struggle with a certain amount of pride 06:42 and you know we have a tendency as humans to talk 06:46 as if we really know a lot when sometimes we don't know 06:49 exactly what we're talking about. 06:51 But, Steve, that's a common thing 06:53 all over the world. 06:54 That's right. That's what I said. 06:56 It's a tendency of humanity. 06:57 And so for a person to adopt a humble posture, 07:01 I think that goes a long way. 07:03 But if you just turn your eyes to where we are, 07:06 this world is bitty and small compared to our solar system, 07:11 compared to our galaxy and compared to the universe. 07:14 So actually, we still are very, very small 07:17 and all that we can possibly put together 07:19 in the whole human race 07:21 is still a small bit of what there is. 07:23 So we will always should be humble, and an inquirer. 07:26 That's good. Excellent. 07:28 Now, give us just a quick overview. 07:30 You've just finished recording 13 programs 07:34 that delve into some of the content 07:37 that's in your books. 07:39 And you branch out into different areas 07:41 dealing with the existence or non existence of God 07:46 and arguments for and against and things like that. 07:50 So just, you know, talk to us a little bit about, 07:52 kind of an overview of what this 13 Part Series is about? 07:57 The base really should be set. 07:59 And when I looked around the world, 08:00 I found that most of the debates and discussions 08:03 would not end with a conclusive ending. 08:06 It was always an unsatisfying ending 08:09 in which neither side wins. 08:11 So when I looked into that, 08:13 I realized that one of the things 08:14 that they, that causes this is that there is a lack 08:19 of agreement on both sides on what the premise 08:22 of the base should be. 08:24 The base must be set 08:26 by factors that both sides agree. 08:29 So that's what I honestly and always do 08:32 when I present this. 08:33 And in this 13 Part Series that's all what I did, 08:36 make a base. 08:37 And then from that we went on to, 08:40 do we know there's a God? 08:42 The only real and credible way 08:45 is to look into the information we have, 08:48 scientific information, and then use common sense 08:51 and reason and logic. 08:53 So with that, the next question 08:55 I tackled was the question of evolution. 08:58 Is that really credible because most people believe in it? 09:02 So after we settled that, I went to the other question 09:06 of pluralism, which says that all the religions 09:09 are really the same in value. 09:13 It didn't seem possible, but when I looked into it, 09:16 yeah, that's what they were saying. 09:18 It didn't pan out from the writings 09:21 of the different religions. 09:23 So when I saw that I realized, 09:24 "Well, let's look at the religions themselves," 09:27 and then the test or the examination 09:31 of these five great world religions, 09:34 Hinduism, Islam, Buddhism, Judaism and Christianity. 09:38 So that is the thumbnail of all the things 09:42 that we did in 13 series sessions. 09:44 And you mentioned a certain things 09:46 that didn't pan out. 09:48 And I know part of your name is Pan or Pandit, 09:51 Pandit or Pundit? 09:52 Pandit. 09:54 And you've done a little, sort of, a tongue in cheek, 09:57 where you've created a term for a process that you have... 10:03 Now that you believe in. 10:04 Just explain that a little bit to us? 10:05 I used that process in my search. 10:08 It's called the Pan process. 10:10 Pan means going across like the Pan American Airlines 10:13 or the Pan African Games. 10:15 You don't stay on one side. 10:16 In other words, whenever there is a controversial topic, 10:19 look at both, not just one. 10:22 So you go across. 10:23 Pan also refers to the process of sifting like those 10:27 who pan for gold during the gold rush. 10:30 That's the process in which you move away 10:33 from the ordinary and keep the special nuggets, 10:36 in this case, nuggets of knowledge. 10:38 And the third was what you just mentioned, 10:41 the first three letters of my family name Pandit. 10:45 That's because, I really formulated that 10:49 because I wanted to be fair in what I was doing 10:52 so that it would give me satisfaction that what I did 10:55 was really balanced and fair. 10:57 So the Pan process looks at any option out there 11:01 that people can bring, and we look at all the theories 11:05 and look at them equally. 11:06 Okay. 11:08 So you look at, such as the theory 11:10 or the belief in the existence of God 11:13 and then you look at the pros and the cons, right? 11:15 You look at both sides and you do the same thing 11:17 with atheism pros and cons 11:19 and you put it all out on the table. 11:21 And you explore the different options 11:23 and take a close look at them? 11:25 That's exactly. 11:26 And once you see that there's at least one thing 11:29 you'll have to agree that the attempt 11:31 is to be absolutely fair and even balanced. 11:35 Okay. 11:36 And in your books you mentioned, 11:38 and we've discussed this that bias is a big issue 11:44 in one's ability to candidly 11:48 look at the options. 11:49 Just comment on that a little bit? 11:51 Well, it's common. 11:54 And the best thing to do when something is that common 11:56 is to acknowledge it. 11:57 So once you confess that you are bias, you address it. 12:01 And the way you address it is to say, "Actually, 12:03 I don't want to be biased." 12:05 And so we make a conscious decision 12:07 of not being biased but that's not easy. 12:10 So I formulated the next step. 12:13 If you really want to stay as an inquirer who is even 12:17 and fair, then you need help 12:20 and what you need, and the factors that help you 12:23 are four, humility, honesty, 12:27 calmness and respect. 12:29 If we employ all these four, I think we'll get 12:33 to the closest point of being as unbiased as possible. 12:37 As possible, and we can make progress. 12:39 Yes. 12:40 In an honest discussion without, 12:42 you know, having to bang each other over the head 12:44 because we don't agree with each other. 12:46 We can try to put our biases aside 12:48 and we can have an honest humble conversation. 12:52 And if you speak to one, he knows that 12:54 you are attempting to be unbiased, 12:57 so he respects and gives you credibility. 13:01 Talk to us a little bit about Charles Darwin. 13:04 I know you mentioned, you talked about Darwin 13:07 in your book, your first book, especially. 13:09 And I read that book twice. 13:11 There was so much information and we know, 13:16 everybody knows that Darwin is a major force 13:21 when it comes to the issue of evolution. 13:25 And I found some of the things that you said were extremely, 13:29 just enlightening. 13:30 So just talk to us a little about Darwin? 13:33 First of all, Charles Darwin, we should give him 13:36 the credit that is due to him. 13:38 He honestly wanted to be a true scientist. 13:43 He tried to put things together in such a way 13:45 that it would make scientific sense. 13:48 And so if you read the book, and by the way 13:50 I have read that book at least six times 13:52 before I started even jotting down 13:54 my comments on that book. 13:56 And that's Origin of Species. 13:57 Origin of Species, because it's not easy 14:01 to go through it with just one reading, 14:04 you go through it and read it again. 14:05 I read it about five or six times. 14:07 I appreciated his attempt at being a scientist. 14:12 If you read the book, he will clearly tell you 14:15 this is what he means to find. 14:18 This is what he was setting out to do 14:21 and this is what he did not do. 14:24 In the book, the point really being 14:27 that as a scientist he really put that down. 14:29 So if we today read it, we should be able to see 14:32 what he was trying to do and what he was unable to do. 14:35 The problem today is that people take the place 14:38 that, the point that he was not able to do, 14:41 and state that he did it. 14:43 And what was that point? 14:45 The point was that he stated very clearly that he wanted 14:49 all the classification, the biological classification 14:55 to have occurred by itself. 14:59 That was his aim, and he got it from 15:02 his own work in breeding experiments. 15:05 And he bred a lot of stuff. 15:07 I mean horses and pigeons and sheep, and even plants. 15:12 And from that he realized that you could possibly get 15:16 a form or an organism 15:17 that was better than the previous one 15:19 by just interbreeding. 15:21 So he extrapolated that and said, 15:23 "Oh, that is what happens in nature. 15:26 So if that happens in nature, well, we don't need God at all 15:30 to do anything out there." 15:32 However, he really believed that there was 15:35 a supernatural being because the last sentence 15:39 in his book, the last sentence, 15:42 he is making a confession 15:45 as to how life came on this earth. 15:46 And he says, "Maybe that first organism 15:50 had life breathed into it by the Creator." 15:56 That's amazing for a person who we now call as a person 15:59 who clearly shows there is no God. 16:01 No, he did believe in God. He did believe in God. 16:03 And you mentioned a little 16:05 while ago as we were talking privately 16:07 that the place of his burial is significant as well. 16:11 Yes, he was. 16:12 He's buried today in Westminster Abbey. 16:14 That's the Church of England. 16:15 The fact is he went to church every week. 16:19 He was a good church goer. 16:22 And he wrote to one of his friends 16:25 saying that when he does his experiments here, 16:28 he has one frame of mind. 16:30 But when he looks up into the sky 16:32 and into the whole universe and cosmos, he says, 16:35 "Hard to believe that it came by itself." 16:38 In fact, he says, "It compels him to look 16:40 to a first cause that had a mind 16:43 that was similar to a human mind." 16:45 And he says, "Well, if that's the case, 16:48 I deserve to be called a believer." 16:52 And you explore more of this in the 13 Part Series? 16:55 More of what he really says, and especially 16:58 whether what he says can meet the criteria of it being truly 17:02 a scientific theory. 17:04 You mean the movement from selective breeding 17:07 to natural selection? 17:09 Oh, yeah, that's a really big point 17:12 because he says in breeding, 17:14 he established the absolute importance 17:19 of the presence of the breeder. 17:22 Then when he goes to the nature, 17:25 inexplicably, he leaves out the breeder. 17:28 There is no breeder there. So that was my question. 17:31 Did you find the breeder out there? 17:33 And when you read the whole book, 17:34 actually there is no breeder. 17:36 He puts natural selection in the place of the breeder 17:40 but a breeder is alive and he can think 17:43 and take action and choose. 17:45 Natural selection is just a... is an idea. 17:50 An Idea doesn't have life 17:51 and make perceptions and conceptions. 17:55 So that was I thought a big drawback to the way 17:59 in which he tried to put those two together. 18:02 Okay. Now you've done... 18:03 As you mentioned, you've done a lot of traveling. 18:05 Where have your travels taken 18:07 you as you've discussed these issues? 18:09 My main audience has been actually 18:12 on secular university campuses. 18:17 I speak to mixed audiences of all kinds of people 18:20 when they come, and we have a good work. 18:22 So I have been to quite a few universities. 18:26 Such as? 18:28 Such as, well, Boston claims 18:31 that is the intellectual capital of the world, 18:33 and I've been there eight times. 18:35 Four times to MIT, it's arguably one of the best 18:40 technological universities in the world. 18:41 We still have Nobel Laureates coming out from there. 18:45 Harvard, Duke, UNC Chapel Hill, 18:49 Michigan Tech, Georgia Tech, 18:53 University of Florida 18:54 and now to the West to UC Davis in California. 18:58 So I've been all over the United States, 19:00 and also around the world, been to five continents 19:03 on just invitation mainly to the university campuses. 19:08 So how do you get invited to these campuses? 19:11 Well, most of the places they have student clubs, 19:14 which are connected and registered 19:16 with the university. 19:17 And student clubs are allowed to call whatever, 19:20 whoever they want to as speakers. 19:22 And so, when they have heard about me, 19:26 they call me as a speaker to these student clubs 19:29 and they call the other students 19:30 to come and hear me. 19:32 And you told me that what you enjoy most 19:34 about those discussions is not just your lecture 19:36 but it's the Q and A. 19:38 Q and A is the place where you can have 19:40 a real back and forth. 19:43 And I enjoy that the most because that's where the people 19:46 ask their real questions. 19:48 And I just enjoy being asked a question, 19:52 whether I can answer it or not because it makes me think. 19:57 And that's what I keep telling them. 19:58 In fact, the most common response 20:02 when I have finished my seminar at the university campuses, 20:06 they will come up and tell me, "Man, you made me think." 20:09 And I say, "Good, that's all I want you to do." 20:12 Can you share any just quick interesting experience? 20:16 Yeah. I was at MIT. 20:20 We had a discussion with the atheistic club. 20:23 They sent their representative and he wanted a debate. 20:28 I usually prefer to have a discussion. 20:30 He said a debate. So I said, "Okay." 20:32 He spoke for half an hour. 20:33 I spoke for half an hour, 20:34 and then we questioned each other 20:36 and then we threw open the discussion to the floor. 20:39 There was a Chinese girl, who had just come from China, 20:43 joined MIT, who in her background 20:46 was a complete total atheist, 20:48 did not even know how to describe God at all. 20:53 And she had come there being confused about 20:56 why people in America go to church? 20:58 And why do they pray to God? 21:02 Well, she came to the discussion we had, 21:05 the actual debate, and she was one of the, 21:07 in the audience. 21:09 And when it was all over, she said, 21:11 "I want to speak to him," meaning me. 21:12 She came and sat down and said, 21:14 "You know I've been an atheist my whole life. 21:17 In fact, I did not even know 21:19 the words to use to ask my questions. 21:23 And when I was sitting here, you were putting on the screen 21:26 the very questions I had and you answered them." 21:29 And then she looked at me and she said, 21:31 "I am no longer an atheist 21:33 because the points you made seem credible and reasonable." 21:36 Wow! Yeah. 21:40 There's no question in my mind 21:41 that this man has a lot of expertise. 21:43 He knows what he's talking about. 21:44 His two books are very, very clear 21:47 on the information that he has, 21:49 and this information is very valuable. 21:51 And just to let you know that we've just... 21:54 Subodh has just recorded a 13 Part television series 21:58 that deals with many issues 22:00 just like what you've gotten, 22:01 a little window into his heart, 22:04 and what these discussions are all about. 22:06 This series is available for people 22:09 to watch anywhere around the world 22:11 for a very inexpensive price on the website 22:14 godfactorfiction.com 22:16 We also have this series available on DVD. 22:20 And then we also have his books 22:22 that are available from White Horse Media. 22:24 And we just want to invite those that are interested, 22:28 those that are searching, those who have questions, 22:31 those who want to find out more 22:34 about what this fascinating person 22:37 has to say. 22:39 Subodh Pandit, the president of Search International... 22:43 Seminars Internationals 22:45 Search Seminars Internationals, yes. 22:47 And so, we know we just encourage you, 22:50 if you're interested 22:51 to check out godfactorfiction.com 22:54 Subodh, do you have anything 22:56 that you want to say to... 22:58 Just you and the audience that are watching this, 23:02 to encourage them to check out the series, 23:04 check out your books or just give you, you know, 23:08 the time of day to have a chance to share? 23:11 You know, this is what I would tell you. 23:14 Don't ever be afraid of searching out 23:17 for the truth of any matter. 23:19 It doesn't matter 23:20 whether it's a big question or a small question. 23:24 Look for what will impress you the most. 23:27 Make a little base in which you will say, 23:31 "Okay, if it is this, then I will believe. 23:33 If it is that, well, 23:34 I will reduce the credibility over there." 23:36 Do not ever be afraid of searching 23:39 and continuing to search 23:41 because if you do that, then your own mind will expand 23:45 and you will come across information 23:48 that will affect your mind and your whole life. 23:51 I believe anyone who really wants to know 23:54 the truth of the matter will come to it 23:57 if you take simple, reasonable steps, 24:01 so do that and I will wish you, 24:04 may the source of truth 24:07 guide you to the point of fulfillment 24:10 in whatever your search is. 24:13 Thank you and one more question. 24:15 The conclusions that you've come to, 24:18 you know, what have they done for you personally? 24:21 Have they benefited your life? 24:25 Have they made you a happier person, more content? 24:28 That's an amazing and good question to ask. 24:33 The reason I kept on doing it, because at every step 24:37 I would come across certain bits of information 24:40 that really affected my life. 24:43 It will affect anyone. 24:45 If you're an inquirer 24:47 and you come to a place where you say, 24:49 "Ah, this is it." 24:52 You'll feel so fulfilled. 24:54 You really want to go to the next one as well. 24:57 And so at every step, it was something affecting me. 25:00 So finally, when I did come to a place 25:02 where I could say, "Ah, 25:05 so this is the answer to that question I had." 25:08 When I realized that I want to jump out of my chair. 25:10 It was so exciting. 25:12 And even today when I think back, 25:14 I said, "Hey, that's the way to live." 25:16 And so, I have reached some places, 25:19 I still have places to go. 25:21 Yeah. 25:22 Well, you look like a very happy person. 25:23 I am immensely pleased with the... 25:26 And actually a sense of contentment 25:29 because now here's a base on which you can build. 25:33 In other word, a firm foundation. 25:36 A firm foundation is 25:37 so important to live in these times 25:40 when everything seems to be chaotic everywhere. 25:42 That's right, and there's so many people. 25:44 I just read a recent news story about a couple. 25:48 They were friends in their 20s I believe or maybe early 30s. 25:52 And they both took their lives together 25:55 in a hotel room and they left a note. 25:57 They left a tip for the house cleaner, 25:59 a note that said, 26:01 "Don't come into this room because if you do 26:03 you'll find us that we're dead." 26:05 And one of the reasons in the news reports listed 26:09 was that they were both deeply depressed. 26:11 And if you just look at this world, 26:13 you know, people are depressed, 26:14 they're discouraged, they're confused, 26:17 and if there was ever a time 26:19 when hope is needed 26:22 and that's when you have to talk about is hope. 26:24 It's now. 26:26 So what if there really is a God 26:29 who loves you and really wishes the best for you? 26:35 If He's a King on this earth, 26:36 we'd say, "Hey, wow, wonderful." 26:38 He's not just a King, He's God. 26:40 So in other words, 26:42 the attributes of His are omnipotent, 26:44 that means all powerful. 26:46 He knows everything. 26:47 He has everything in His hands. 26:48 If He's loving and He is on your side, 26:51 your life is just stable. 26:54 That's right. Well, thank you. 26:55 Thank you so much. 26:57 And so if you are interested 27:00 in learning more about this discussion, 27:03 this conversation, 27:04 looking at the evidence for and against and learning more 27:08 what Subodh Pandit has to say, 27:11 and we encourage you to go to the website, 27:14 godfactorfiction.com 27:17 And come, search with us and see 27:20 where the journey will take you. 27:22 You might be surprised that it will be good for you. 27:27 If you have enjoyed this presentation 27:29 with Dr. Subodh Pandit 27:30 and wish to watch more of this unique 13 Part Series 27:34 for free online. 27:36 Visit the website, godfactorfiction.com 27:39 That's godfactorfiction.com 27:42 If you would like to order this fascinating series on DVD, 27:45 it is now available from White Horse Media. 27:48 To order from within the US 27:50 call 1-800-782-4253. 27:55 Dr. Subodh Pandit has written two eye-opening books entitled, 27:59 Come Search With Me, Does God really Exist? 28:02 And Come Search with Me, The Weight of Evidence, 28:05 which further explore the topics of evolution, 28:08 theism, atheism and religion. 28:10 To order these books from within the US, 28:13 call 1-800-782-4253. 28:16 That's 1-800-782-4253. 28:21 If you live outside the US, 28:22 you may also easily order them on amazon.com |
Revised 2021-10-28