Participants:
Series Code: GFF
Program Code: GFF000010S
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00:01 ♪ ♪ Subodh K. Pandit, M.D.
00:55 Welcome again, this time to Session Nine. We're going to do 01:01 a little shift now. We have been talking about the literature of 01:05 these different religions. Now we're going to shift to the 01:08 founders of them and compare the founders. All of them are 01:13 powerful, wonderful messages brought through them, but we 01:16 want to compare them. So the next four sessions will be a 01:20 comparison of the founders. Here's the first question I 01:24 asked the founder: What is the highest claim you make for 01:28 yourself? Now why did I ask that It's because they brought such 01:34 an amazing, an amazing message and a message that allows us or 01:40 rather pushes us to shift from this world to the next. Now such 01:46 a powerful claim; how do I know that you are really authentic? 01:51 And how do I know that you are able to do that. So I was asking 01:56 for their credentials. In other words, like a CV, a resume. What 02:00 is the highest claim you make for yourself? So here's what we 02:05 got when I asked that question. In Hinduism, the founder is not 02:10 Visvamitra. He's just one of the authors and there are many 02:15 authors in Hinduism who brought to us the actual message. But 02:20 the highest claim all the authors made was that of a sage. 02:23 Who is a sage? A sage is a revered individual in the 02:27 society, in the community, in which they live. Good poise, 02:31 personality, deep piety and a good grasp of the literature 02:36 their sacred literature of that community. That's a sage. 02:40 How about Buddhism? Gautama Buddha claimed to be the 02:44 Enlightened One, the one who had all the light in the world. He 02:49 says that one night in the eastern part of India he was 02:52 given that light in four stages. So he got up in the morning and 02:56 he said, Now I am the Enlightened One. 02:58 Islam: Muhammad said he was the Seal of the Prophets. Islamic 03:04 tradition says that Allah sent down 124,000 prophets. About 03:09 20 or 25 of them are by name in the Quran beginning from Adam 03:15 and then Enoch, maybe Noah, Abraham, the 12 patriarchs of 03:20 the Jews, Jesus, John the Baptist. All of them are 03:24 mentioned by name, but among all of them Muhammad is considered 03:27 the Seal of the Prophets. That was his highest claim. Judaism: 03:32 Let's say Moses was their founder. Abraham also could be 03:37 a part of that. But Moses declared himself to be a 03:40 Prophet of God and the people described him as the lawgiver 03:45 of Israel. He went up on a mountain, Mt. Sinai, and got the 03:49 law from God's own hand and came down. Lawgiver of Israel. Then 03:54 you come to Jesus, this is what he said: He claimed to be the 03:58 Son of God. Now some differentiate between Son of God 04:02 and God, but really the Son of God is God. He came to be God. 04:08 Wow! Look at those five and consider all of them. And I am 04:16 asking the question, which is the highest claim you make for 04:19 yourself? So which is the highest claim? You will have to 04:22 agree that the line has to be drawn between the first four and 04:25 the last, the fifth. Because the first four are all human. Jesus 04:31 came to be God, to belong to that realm, which is a 04:35 supernatural realm. Wow! Hard to believe but that's what he said. 04:42 Now you and I cannot controvert any of their claims. None of us 04:48 can say Gautama Buddha you're not the Enlightened One, or 04:51 Muhammad you are not the Seal of the Prophets. Similarly we 04:55 can't say to Jesus you are not the Son of God. We may 04:59 disbelieve but we can't really make a claim on that point. 05:02 So we are going to look at them at face value and if you take 05:05 the face value then here's the obvious claim that Jesus made 05:10 of being the Son of God. NO other founder claimed to be at 05:15 the level of God. But still our faith and belief still struggles 05:20 So here's what I did. I looked to see if they were humans 05:24 who called themselves God. And here the claim is to the title 05:29 of God. Mad or deluded. Number two: A liar or impostor. Number 05:35 three: An egomaniac or a megalomaniac. Number four: Just 05:39 honestly mistaken. And number five: May be truly God. Was he 05:43 mad or deluded? What do some great thinkers say? I'm going to 05:47 describe and quote the words of a person who was not considered 05:52 always a great thinker. He was more considered a world emperor. 05:56 His name: Napoleon Bonaparte. In his exile years they asked him 06:01 to check out those teachings of Jesus and he had time so when 06:05 he did it these are his words: Everything in Christ astonishes 06:09 me... the nearer I approach, the more carefully I examine, 06:13 everything is above me - everything remains grand, 06:16 of a grandeur which overpowers ...neither history, nor humanity 06:19 nor the ages, nor nature, offer me anything with which I am able 06:24 to compare it or [even to] explain it. Here everything is 06:27 extraordinary." That was said because he compared the kingdom 06:34 that Jesus built to his. He had made his kingdom with force, 06:38 deceit and bloodshed and military genius. Jesus without 06:43 a sword just spoke words, and his kingdom was set. And 06:48 Napoleon came 1800 years after Jesus and this was his 06:53 confession. People are willing to die for Jesus. Nobody's 06:57 willing to die for me. He must have created an extraordinary 07:02 empire. That's why he said those words. And how about Bernard 07:05 Ramm who spoke about the words of Jesus: "They are read more, 07:08 quoted more, loved more, believed more, and translated 07:10 more because they are the greatest words ever spoken. 07:13 And where is their greatness? Their greatness lies in the pure 07:16 lucid spirituality in dealing clearly, definitively and 07:19 authoritatively with the greatest problems that throb in 07:22 the human breast." So I did not find any serious scholar who 07:28 ever called Jesus mad. Was he a liar or an impostor? Not likely 07:33 because of the Sanhedrin trial. During that trial they asked him 07:36 the same question we are asking today: "Tell us if you are...the 07:40 Son of God." Jesus was a thoroughbred Jew. He knew that 07:45 if he claimed to be the Son of God, they would charge him with 07:50 blasphemy and he would go to his death. Now you tell me; if you 07:54 are on trial for your life would you not bring truthful evidence 07:58 to escape the death sentence. Would you not also be severely 08:03 tempted, maybe you would bring untruthful, false testimony to 08:08 escape the death sentence. Yeah, people in their right mind don't 08:11 want to die. Nobody in their right mind will ever bring false 08:16 testimony to bring on the death sentence. And in this case Jesus 08:22 answered in the affirmative. He agreed to being the Son of God. 08:26 And he went to his death. So it's difficult for us to say he 08:31 was a liar. Who is a liar? A person who knows the truth and 08:34 purposefully states something else. Difficult. Now pin that on 08:41 Jesus. He died for what he said. Therefore, I don't know if he is 08:45 the Son of God, but this much I know. He fully, completely, 08:48 totally believed that he was the Son of God because he confessed 08:52 it. So I could not call him a liar. How about egomaniac? 08:57 Now we do have humans who have called themselves God because 09:02 they're egomaniacal, megalomaniacs we call them. 09:07 The Pharaohs of Egypt called themselves god. The Caesars of 09:10 Rome called themselves god on pain of death. They had the 09:15 position and authority to enforce that, you have to call 09:17 me god. This man had no authority. He washed the dirty 09:23 feet of his disciples like a common servant at one time. That 09:27 is not being puffed up with an polluted sense of self 09:30 importance. No. And he turned to his disciples and he said you 09:34 also must wash one another's feet. This is a picture of self 09:38 abnegation, not of being a megalomaniac. How about being 09:43 honestly mistaken. This is what Richard Dawkins said: "A fourth 09:49 possibility, almost too obvious to need mentioning is that Jesus 09:54 was honestly mistaken. Plenty of people are." Tell me, really? 10:01 Would be "honestly mistaken" that you are the king or the 10:07 queen of England? Would you be honestly mistaken that you 10:11 landed just here from Mars on a space ship? No friend. You 10:15 cannot be honestly mistaken about major things. Yes, you can 10:19 be honestly mistaken a face in a crowd or where you left your 10:24 keys. But you cannot be mistaken about huge big things. "Is such 10:29 an intellect, clear as the sky, bracing as the mountain air, 10:32 sharp and penetrating as a sword thoroughly healthy and vigorous, 10:36 always ready and always self- possessed, liable to a radical 10:40 and most serious delusion concerning his own character 10:43 and mission? Preposterous suggestion!" He was clear in his 10:47 mind and yet he made the claim. And therefore it doesn't seem 10:53 that he was honestly mistaken. Because we cannot be honestly 10:58 mistaken about major factors. So, truly God? I don't know, you 11:03 don't know. We're just inquirers right now. And when we look at 11:08 the claim, well he looks just like anybody else, he behaves 11:12 like anybody else, he dresses like anybody else, he eats like 11:15 and he works like anybody else. How can he be called God? 11:19 So we will give him the highest we can give, the highest 11:25 position, but not God. We'll say he's a great moral teacher, a 11:28 wonderful, powerful prophet but not God. And then I read these 11:33 words by C.S. Lewis. C.S. Lewis was one time an avowed atheist, 11:37 professor of literature at Cambridge University who looked 11:42 at it in a logical way and so here are his words: "I am trying 11:48 here to prevent anyone saying the really foolish thing that 11:50 people often say about him: [And that is] 'I'm ready to accept 11:54 Jesus as a great moral teacher but, I don't accept his claim to 11:57 be God'. That is the one thing we must not say. A man who was 12:02 merely a man and said the sort of things Jesus said would not 12:05 be a great moral teacher. He would be either a lunatic-on 12:09 a level with the man who says he is a poached egg or else he 12:13 would be a devil of hell. You must make your choice. Either 12:17 this man was, and is, the Son of God: or else a mad man or 12:20 something worse. You can shut Him up for a fool, you can spit 12:24 at Him and kill Him as a demon; or you can fall at his feet and 12:27 call Him Lord and God. But let us not come up with any 12:31 patronizing nonsense about His being a great human teacher. He 12:35 has not left that open to us. He did not intend to." Now whether 12:41 we agree to that or not, when we look at all the claims that have 12:46 been made it is very clear that Jesus made the highest claim of 12:50 all, that of being God. We can't get away from that because it 12:54 was there in the writings. The next one: How were the words 13:01 given to us regarding the message and mission? Now the 13:05 message and mission is huge and broad, but my question was 13:09 would we be able to put it in a nutshell just a sentence or two? 13:14 How do you describe your mission? And here is what we 13:20 find. Hinduism: The whole message and mission of the Hindu 13:26 writers and authors were: To show the way to ultimate truth 13:30 of the matter, which is, the merging of the human Atma or 13:34 soul with the Super soul or Brahman. And that is the way you 13:39 escape this world and get to the abode of Brahma. So we will 13:44 teach you the way to the truth of the matter. That is the 13:50 message and the mission of the Hindu authors. 13:53 How about Buddhism? 13:55 Here are the words of Gautama Buddha: "For Enlightenment I was 13:59 born, for the good of all that lives." So what was the message 14:04 and mission of Gautama Buddha? His message was to bring light 14:11 to the world. This is what he claimed. I was enlightened and 14:15 so because I was enlightened I've got the information that I 14:19 can enlighten you also. And the basis of it would be what is 14:24 called the Four Golden Rules and the Eight Right Circumstances. I 14:28 was enlightened. So that's my claim. The highest claim of 14:32 Gautama Buddha was that of being an enlightened individual. How 14:37 about Islam? For Muslims the Quran is the infallible Word of 14:43 God...revealed to the prophet Muhammad by the Angel Gabriel. 14:47 So what was the message and mission of Mohammad? To bring 14:52 the word of Allah to the human race. The word of god to the 14:56 human race. Now when you look at the writings we will have to 15:02 agree to something. When you use the word Word of God then in one 15:08 sense only the Quran can actually fit that description. 15:12 Here's what I mean. When you look at say the Hindu writings 15:17 you will find so and so, and so and so, and so and so, also 15:22 speaking, writing. When you look at the Buddhist literature the 15:27 disciples also write in the writings. Amamabo Gautama Buddha 15:33 himself writes. He never called himself god. But he writes there 15:38 When you look at the Judaic scriptures well Moses spoke and 15:43 Samuel spoke and David spoke, Isaiah spoke. When you look at 15:48 the Christian literature, well Matthew spoke and Paul spoke 15:52 Peter spoke. So in most all of these writings people other than 15:59 god speak in the writings. The Quran is the only writing in 16:05 which are written the words of Allah and nobody else. Therefore 16:11 in a technical sense that can be called the Word of God. So fair 16:18 enough. Did you saw wow to that? It is amazing. That can be 16:23 called the words of Allah, the words of god. And so the 16:27 message and mission of Muhammad: Bring the word of Allah, of god, 16:32 to the human race. How about Judaism? "You shall therefore 16:37 keep My statutes [these are the words of God] You shall 16:42 therefore keep My statutes and My judgments, which if a man 16:46 does, he shall live..." This is the mouth of Yahweh God speaking 16:52 to Moses, giving him the commands, the statutes, the 17:00 rules that must govern the people. And if you keep to those 17:04 rules, oh well then, you're on the right side. 17:08 You will have life. 17:09 If you break the rules then you don't have life, you'll die. So 17:13 what was the message and mission of Moses? To bring the rules and 17:20 the commands of God so that you can keep it and have life. 17:24 So he will bring life via the commands of God. How about Jesus 17:30 now? Here we've come to a big difference because he stated 17:36 words which are quite different from anyone else. He used the 17:40 words I Am. Look at the way he writes. "I am the way, the truth 17:46 and the life." "I am the light of the world." I am "the Word 17:52 [that] became flesh." "I am the resurrection and the life." The 17:59 words I Am are absolutely unique No other founder ever used the 18:04 words I Am. So let's compare now what the other founders and 18:09 writers wrote and look at how he used the words I Am. The 18:14 Hindu writers said we will show you the way to the truth of the 18:22 matter. He said, I Am the way, the truth. When Gautama Buddha 18:28 said I was enlightened and because of the light that I got 18:33 I will make others also enlightened. Jesus said, I Am 18:38 the light that enlightens. Now which would you prefer? If you 18:43 were going out in a stormy night would you prefer just the light, 18:47 say a candle or even a lantern or would you prefer the source 18:51 of the light which can always be beside you to light your candle 18:55 in case the wind blows it out? Which would you prefer? The 18:59 light as an entity in your hand or the source of the light which 19:06 can always light up in case your light goes out. When Jesus said 19:12 I am the light he was describing himself as the source of that 19:17 light. An amazing difference. How about what Muhammad said? 19:23 We agreed that the Quran was what Allah would send through 19:28 Muhammad to the race. And therefore Muhammad's message 19:32 and mission was to bring the world the words of Allah to the 19:34 human race. Jesus described himself as being the Word. If 19:40 Muhammad said I'm bringing you the word, Jesus said I Am the 19:43 Word in the flesh. When it comes to Moses, Moses said I will 19:49 bring you the commands so that you can have life. Jesus said I 19:54 Am the life and the resurrection The words I Am set him apart. 19:59 For example, really, if you remove Buddha 20:03 one can still reach 20:05 Buddhahood by following the writings that he has left behind 20:09 and the other writers and authors have expanded on. 20:14 If you remove Moses, you can still be an Israelite by 20:18 following the writings of Moses, the Old Testament, the Talmud 20:22 and all the rest. If you remove the authors in Hinduism, one can 20:28 still reach the abode of Brahma by following those writings. 20:32 And if you remove Muhammad, the perfect man who really brought 20:36 the word of Allah to us one can still pass judgment on the 20:40 judgment day by following the words that were in the book. 20:45 We did not really need him although he was a good example. 20:48 But we did not need him for us to pass judgment. But here's the 20:53 difference. When it comes to Christianity, if you remove 20:58 Jesus the Christianity statement claims that there is actually 21:04 nothing left because he was the message. In other words, all 21:11 the founders of the various religions and belief systems 21:14 claimed to bring a message to the world. None ever claimed 21:19 to be the message except Jesus. So the declaration of I Am sets 21:25 him apart as truly unique. Now we need to go back a little bit 21:31 to find out what we have done so far. Remember, we are asking the 21:36 question to the founders. And the question I asked was what's 21:42 the highest claim you make for yourself? We are asking for 21:46 credentials. We want to be sure because I wanted to be sure 21:50 about where to hang my eternal destiny. That's what they were 21:55 claiming. Come, we will give you an eternal destiny. And here, if 21:58 we want to hang it there we must know their credentials. Think. 22:02 Would you follow just a human who is living on this earth? 22:06 Who is surrounded by what surrounds us? And is subject to 22:11 all the limitations that we are subject to? Is that a person 22:16 whose words I will really follow or should it be a person who 22:23 really came from there, who claimed to have a connection 22:26 with the top, with the realm and the dimension of God? That he 22:32 can tell us how to get from this dimension to the next. How to 22:37 get away from this realm and with so much of pain and 22:41 suffering and death to a place where all of these are gone. 22:45 That is what we were trying to do. And if you look at the 22:50 question and the answer it seems to be very clear that Jesus made 22:55 the highest claim. His claim written down for anyone to read. 23:00 Puts him above. And then we ask well what is your message? Now 23:05 think of the consistency of the answers. He claimed to come 23:12 from the realm of God. If he really came from there then he 23:19 would bring it within himself the message. You see the other 23:24 founders had to say I am bringing you a message because 23:29 they got the message from another source so they could 23:34 bring it. Jesus was able to say I am the message because he was 23:40 the source of the message. He came from where the message 23:43 actually dwells and lives. Let's look at one other comparison. 23:50 Let's compare Jesus to Gautama Buddha. He said I look for light 23:57 For six years he looked for light, beating himself, starving 24:01 himself, going through penance. Jesus didn't have to do any of 24:06 that. He just simply stated I Am the light. Isn't that a 24:12 difference? How about the other difference between Jesus and 24:16 Muhammad? You know one of the reasons they say Muhammad and 24:20 agree that Muhammad is the Seal of the Prophets is because of an 24:23 experience he had. It's called issurah mirej. Issurah means 24:29 night journey, mirej means the accent and this is the story. 24:34 One night he was sleeping in Mecca when the angel Gabriel 24:38 came to him and said, Come with me. And beside them was the 24:42 heavenly horse Buraq. So they both climbed onto Buraq and 24:47 Buraq flew them from Mecca to the temple mount in Jerusalem. 24:52 There was a ladder that was going upwards. You see Allah had 24:57 created seven heavens and so this ladder was going up to the 25:01 first, second, third, fourth, up to the seventh heaven. Now the 25:05 seventh heaven is where Allah dwells. So Angel Gabriel told 25:11 Muhammad, Come with me. And they climbed to the first heaven. 25:14 It was presided over by one of the prophets, John the Baptist 25:20 maybe. And then to the next one and then to the next one. Jesus 25:26 and Moses, ah Enoch, these names Abraham, Moses, each one 25:33 presiding over a heaven. And then they came finally to the 25:37 seventh heaven and there Allah had a conversation with God 25:41 and then he came down that same night to this earth. So in the 25:45 morning when he told the people I've been to the seventh heaven 25:48 Wow! That was amazing. You see in Islamic tradition you cannot 25:53 get anywhere near God. Allah is transcendent. So if a 25:58 prophet went from here to the seventh heaven to be with God 26:02 and he came back, that was amazing. And that is why he is 26:05 called the Seal of the Prophets. Now in that story is a 26:09 confession that he belongs here and he went there for a visit. 26:14 Contrast that with Jesus. He said where Muhammad went to 26:19 heaven, that is my home. I live there and I came here for a 26:25 visit. And so the origins and the direction of travel are 26:30 exactly the opposite. Not the same. Now you tell me who knows 26:35 more about the town where you live? The person who has lived 26:38 there all his life or me who might come there for a visit 26:42 for about three or four hours. Think. The one who lives there 26:47 can tell about that place. The one who lives in that other 26:52 realm where absolute truth resides is the one who can come 26:57 down to us and tell us that this is the truth of the matter. The 27:02 credibility of those words are amazing. He said I came from 27:08 there. I bring the message not only in my hands, but I Am the 27:14 message. These words, I Am, set Jesus completely apart from 27:20 every other claim of every other founder. Could it still be a 27:25 red marble? 27:28 If you have enjoyed this presentation with Dr. Subodh 27:32 Pandit and wish to watch more of this unique 13 part series for 27:36 free online visit the website GodFactOrFiction.com. That's 27:42 GodFactOrFiction.com. If you would like to order this 27:45 fascinating series on DVD it is now available from White Horse 27:49 Media... 27:57 Dr. Subodh Pandit has written two eye-opening books entitled 28:01 Come Search With Me: Does God Really Exist? and Come Search 28:05 With Me: The Weight of Evidence which further explore the topics 28:09 of evolution, theism, atheism, and religion. 28:13 ♪ ♪ |
Revised 2021-08-31