Participants: Pr. John Lomacang, Pr. John Stanton
Series Code: HCL
Program Code: HCL090014
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00:01 Hello, friends, grab your Bible and a friend
00:02 and sit back as we explore God's word together 00:05 on this edition of "House Calls." 00:22 Well, friends, welcome to the most exciting program 00:24 anywhere in the world. 00:26 That's why it's everywhere in the world. 00:29 This is "House Calls" and we're going to begin 00:30 another excursion today 00:32 through the most wonderful book ever written, 00:35 the Word of God, and I'm not by myself. 00:37 I have my good friend with me, John Stanton. 00:39 Good to have you here, John. 00:40 It's good to be here, John, doing another program. 00:42 You know, it's amazing, 00:43 we've been doing this program for over five years. 00:45 That is amazing. 00:46 You know when I think about when we started 00:47 the idea in California, we sat down in Fairfield 00:51 in our living room and said, wouldn't it be nice one day, 00:54 if we could be sitting down, sharing this message 00:57 with people around the world and that was a dream. 00:59 And one day it hit us 01:01 that the Lord had worked it out, so praise God. 01:03 You know, one of the neat things that I get asked once in a while 01:06 and you probably get the same question, 01:08 how do you guys plan the program, you know? 01:11 What script--how do you put all this stuff together? 01:13 And, you know, the answer is we don't. 01:16 We pick a topic and we just come with our Bibles 01:19 and maybe a few notes 01:20 with regard to some things to remember, 01:22 certain texts on the topic, but really the Lord is one that 01:25 planned this and He did way back when we talked about it, 01:28 when He put it in our hearts. That's right. 01:29 That one day we could do a program 01:31 and feed off each other as we have been doing for many years 01:34 and it's just a blessing to do it. 01:36 But what we always rely on is the Holy Spirit and prayers. 01:39 So have pray for us. Let's do that. 01:41 Bow your heads with us. 01:42 Dear Father, we thank you so much again 01:44 for being able to come before Your presence. 01:46 Lord, give us the opportunity to share from Your Word 01:50 those truths that are so important for us today. 01:52 And we just pray that You'll send us Your spirit, 01:54 open our hearts and minds so that we may hear 01:56 and discern Your voice and that those that are watching 01:59 or listening or that they will be impressed 02:02 also by Your Spirit as to the truth 02:04 that You are giving us for today. 02:06 Well, most of all we need Jesus here with us. 02:08 And so we just pray that His presence would be felt. 02:11 In Jesus' name amen. Amen. 02:14 Well, friends, as you know our program is very important, 02:17 that's why your questions are always accepted and appreciated. 02:22 Some of you write wonderful comments, 02:25 some of you write books, 02:26 some of you just have those two lined questions. 02:28 And we appreciate any form, but continue sending them. 02:31 And if you have any today to send to us, 02:32 send them to housecalls@3abn.org. 02:36 That's housecalls@3abn.org. 02:39 That's where we go to the website 02:41 and we download those questions 02:42 and we try our best to give you an answer 02:45 from the Word of the God. 02:46 If it's going to be our opinion, we are going to state that, 02:49 but in most cases, it's from God's Word 02:51 and if we open the door to anything else 02:53 during that time that's the email address 02:56 you need to send your question back to us. 02:58 Well, John, what do we have for today? 02:59 Well, you know, I wanted to mention 03:00 before we get into our question as well, 03:02 that we have a Facebook fan page now. 03:05 And, you know, I mean, the fan-- 03:07 I guess it's just called the fan page. 03:08 They are not only just fans but, you know, they are friends. 03:11 And as you know on Facebook when you have a page set up, 03:15 people get to know that they haven't seen in a while, 03:18 they're your friends, they friend you. 03:19 And so we want to make sure that you know 03:21 that you are our friends 03:23 and we have a fan page that we set up 03:25 under 'House Calls.' 03:26 You can get to it, I believe, with a Facebook search. 03:30 And just go ahead and click, become a fan. 03:32 And what we're gonna do there on that page, John, 03:34 is let them know what the topics that are coming. 03:38 Maybe, if they have some additional questions 03:40 based upon what we've already covered, 03:41 they may want to weigh in on that. 03:43 There's a discussion page on there. 03:44 That's good too. 03:45 If they have a suggestion maybe for a topic 03:47 that we haven't done yet, they can throw that out there. 03:50 It's not to send your questions in necessarily, 03:52 but it's more of just a discussion, 03:54 an ongoing discussion about things, not for books, 03:56 but for quick comments here and there 03:58 and so I just think it will be a blessing for us 04:00 and for our friends, those who watch 04:03 and listen to the program. 04:04 You know, sometimes we could chime into the page 04:07 and when they see us online, 04:09 we could just go ahead and discuss 04:10 some questions with them right online. 04:12 And we can also do video clips. 04:13 What I like to do is get some 04:14 short video clips of maybe past programs 04:16 where there's a question-answer to something, 04:18 put it on there. That's a good idea. 04:19 Kind of some neat things we can do. 04:20 So anyway search for us there on Facebook under 'House Calls.' 04:24 It's a fan page. Good idea. 04:26 John, we've got a question here from Ernest and he says-- 04:30 An earnest question. 04:31 An earnest question from Ernest, there you go. 04:33 Could you please tell me whether or not God created 04:36 unclean animals from the beginning? 04:39 I'm thinking that there was no need for them 04:41 in the Garden of Eden because nothing died then. 04:45 You know a good question. 04:46 And some--and a good thought, you know, as to--you know, 04:51 we think so much of today, what's clean, 04:54 what's unclean in terms of food. 04:56 This question I'm surprised we hadn't gotten it before, 04:58 but it's the first time I've seen this question come up. 05:00 But it poses another interesting issue 05:02 that we got to think of first, 05:03 because I don't think there's so much finding 05:06 the answer to this question in the Bible. 05:07 But what is the reason, 05:09 why would there be a reason for this question? 05:12 And so the answer really to the question 05:14 would be in the form of the question 05:16 and that is God never designed animals for food 05:20 from the beginning anyway. 05:22 So there was no such thing as clean and unclean 05:26 in the beginning in the Garden of Eden. 05:28 So did God create animals, you know, 05:31 in the very beginning as then He created the earth 05:34 and then the Garden of Eden. 05:35 And the answer to that would be clearly, yes. 05:36 He created all animals at that time, 05:39 but as sin entered the world and then as man began to, 05:46 especially after the flood, began to crave 05:49 and ask the Lord again for food, 05:51 he had already made provision ahead of time by bringing-- 05:54 distinguishing the clean from the unclean as Noah 05:57 called the animals on the ark. 05:58 But he brought in more of the clean animals. 06:00 We believe one of those reasons 06:01 is because he was providing for their request for food 06:05 from the animals after that time, not to suggest 06:08 that there wasn't any eating of meat before either. 06:12 But clearly there was no discussion of eating meat 06:14 in the Garden of Eden in the earth made, you know, 06:17 for at the first time by God. 06:20 So there really was not thought to clean or unclean, John. 06:24 So the question really isn't-- 06:26 there's no way to answer the question because it's just-- 06:28 the issues there didn't exist back then. 06:31 You know, I like that, John, when you think about the fact 06:34 that people concerned with issues that are relevant today 06:38 or more pertinent to today than it was in the time 06:40 before sin entered the world. 06:42 Another example would be 06:44 and I'm going to just throw this ridiculous statement out there, 06:48 would Adam and Eve have needed to be involved in sacrifices 06:55 and what animals would they have chosen. 06:58 You would never have known the answer to that, 07:00 outside of sin entering the world 07:02 because there was even no need for that. 07:05 The beauty of it is that the Lord made provision 07:08 in the event that sin entered the world He made provision. 07:11 And He knew before the fall of man 07:14 what man would need and what he would not need. 07:17 As a matter of fact, 07:19 when Paul addresses in the letter to Timothy, 07:22 you'll find in 1 Timothy Chapter 4, this short paragraph 07:28 when it comes to the creation of the animals that God made, 07:32 it says for every creature of God is good. 07:35 Good for what He created it for, 07:37 but you find that when sin entered the world 07:39 a number of things changed. 07:42 One of the things that we think of in the context 07:45 of what changed, we surely know 07:47 that there was a change in the serpent. 07:50 Because the Bible says from this day on, 07:53 you're going to eat dust, 07:55 you're going to crawl on your belly. 07:56 So why would there need to be a change 08:01 to crawling on your belly 08:03 if he was not in a former condition prior to sin 08:07 which suggests that He was able to fly, 08:10 you know, the Leviathan the winged serpent, 08:13 is what's referred to there in the Book of Job. 08:16 So it suggests that up until the entrance of sin, 08:21 that the serpent was able to do something 08:23 other than just crawl on his belly 08:24 and eat dust as Genesis talks about. 08:27 And so you see there were definitely changes, 08:30 it suggests to me and this is--and by the way, 08:32 this is the section where I talk about my opinion. 08:34 It suggests to us on that note that there were some changes 08:38 that came in and after the fall of man, 08:40 after sin entered the world. 08:42 A prime example, another one, 08:45 we know that not only did death pass upon all men, 08:49 but death infected all of creation 08:53 as we see plants die, animals die, 08:58 anything that lives or has life in it 09:02 comes to a point where it dies. 09:03 If you sever a plant, it dies. 09:05 Even over the course of time, some plants just wither and die. 09:08 And so we find that death has affected a lot of things. 09:11 And it's possible, John, this is just a possibility, 09:13 I have to look up the information 09:15 to see if it is there. 09:16 It's a possibility then that there were also 09:18 some changes in the animals, 09:20 those who were originally given the vegetables of the field, 09:25 now that is the bitter herbs of the field, as their food. 09:28 Later on, after sin entered the world, 09:30 even their diet was changed because man's diet was changed. 09:34 So I don't know what you could do with that 09:36 but, in fact, after sin entered the world 09:39 many changes came upon creation, man and animal. 09:43 The other aspect too is 09:45 and this isn't necessarily what was asked in this question, 09:47 but when it comes to what to eat 09:50 and what not to eat, a lot of people think 09:52 well, you can eat clean-- the Bible says you can eat 09:54 clean foods, but you can't eat unclean foods. 09:57 The issue with the unclean foods wasn't so much 10:00 that you should not eat them 10:01 as that they were never designed for food. 10:04 God never said that they were food from the very beginning. 10:07 So as we--you know, as many contemplate 10:09 eating unclean foods today, 10:12 it's really kind of an oxymoron, unclean food, 10:15 because the unclean is not food. 10:18 So unclean foods, I have a difficulty with that phrase. 10:22 It's like saying--well, I think you said it better. 10:25 I was going to try to find a parallel to that, 10:26 but it's like unclean garbage. It's just not food. 10:33 So that's why God said it's unclean, 10:34 don't touch it, it's not food. 10:36 Well, the other aspect too, 10:37 I was reading in my devotional this morning 10:39 before I came here to do our programs. 10:42 And, you know, I'd seen this and read this many times before 10:46 but the issue came up recently 10:47 so I specifically took note in Acts 15: 28, 29. 10:53 There are other little things, you know, people will say, 10:55 well, you know those old laws that were given to Moses, 10:57 they're not applicable anymore, right. 11:00 Well, here we find Paul and we find Barnabas 11:05 who are teaching the people in the early church 11:08 how to observe the commandments 11:11 and the statute and the judgments of the Lord. 11:13 And here they say in verse 28 of Acts 15, 11:17 because there was an issue over circumcision 11:20 and so they were going to come back to them 11:22 and they were going to say-- and they did say 11:24 "For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit 11:26 and to us to lay upon you no greater burden 11:30 than these necessary things." 11:32 So we don't believe and the Holy Spirit 11:34 is not leading us to lay upon you the burden 11:37 of circumcising everyone as far as the Gentiles. 11:40 But then it says, "except these things." 11:43 And listen to the examples 11:44 of what things they should observe as Christians. 11:47 "That you should abstain from things offered to idols, 11:51 from blood." Think about it. 11:55 Today, most of the time, 11:57 the church doesn't even concern itself 11:59 with how they order their steaks. 12:02 But what seems to be indicative here 12:06 is that we still should not eat the blood in the meat. 12:10 So whether, you know, while, you know, 12:12 meat itself--eating meat that is clean is not a sin, 12:17 the blood is not permissible even under the new covenant. 12:21 That's right. Interesting thing. 12:22 So if you're ordering a steak, medium rare, 12:25 really the Bible's pretty clear, cook the meat thoroughly. 12:30 Almost kosher as it were. Yeah. 12:33 And that's why they have the rules of kosher, you know, 12:36 that still are part of the Jewish dietary laws. 12:41 But here then it goes on "from things strangled," 12:44 you know, how are we-- what meats are we eating, 12:46 how are they killing their animals, 12:50 "and from sexual immorality." 12:51 Well, we always say, well, that's a given, we know that. 12:54 "If you keep yourselves from these you will do well." 12:57 So there are dietary laws that were given to the early church 13:03 in the new covenant after Christ resurrected 13:06 and went back and ascended back to His throne that, 13:09 you know, many teachers just throw out. 13:13 Paul and Barnabas did not throw those things out. 13:15 So, you know, you got to be careful when you say, 13:19 well, all of it doesn't mean anything. 13:21 It's not applicable anymore. 13:22 So there are still dietary laws 13:25 that were given in the Old Testament 13:27 that still carry forward to today 13:29 as to how to live healthily 13:31 and to live in accordance with God's design 13:34 for us in taking care of our bodies. 13:37 You know, John, how amazing it is 13:38 and some of you may see it in this direction, 13:41 how amazing it is that when the Lord established 13:44 a ceremonial system that pointed to all the work 13:47 that He would do, you know, the table of Showbread, 13:50 Jesus is the bread of life, the candelabra, Jesus, 13:53 the light of the world, the laver, the water, 13:56 Jesus, the water of life. 13:58 Everything aspect-- everything in there 14:00 pointing to one aspect or another. 14:03 The author of incense, which, in fact, 14:04 is where the prayers of the saints ascended, 14:07 the Ark of the Covenant, which inside has the commandments. 14:11 And Aaron's rod that budes 14:13 and on the side of it has the Book of the Law 14:16 and over the mercy seat 14:17 which you'll also find in the outer court 14:19 where Jesus was crucified outside of Jerusalem. 14:23 You find in the outer court the altar of sacrifice 14:26 where the lamb was killed and he was roasted. 14:29 And now we have today when Jesus talked about-- 14:32 when the Bible talks about the Passover in the Old Testament, 14:35 they were to take a lamb and they would eat all of it 14:38 symbolizing when Jesus says to Peter in the New Testament 14:42 that he that has no part with Me, 14:45 He's talking about the cleanliness 14:47 of the acceptance of the sacrifice of Christ. 14:50 But the thing that I point out here is that 14:53 all of the animals used in the ceremonial system 14:56 had to be clean, in the sense of not only for consumption 15:02 but for ceremonial purposes, 15:04 because nothing that was a scavenger 15:08 would represent Jesus. 15:10 Nothing that took into its body dead things 15:14 or things that were putrefying or as it were, 15:18 anything that became a part of the sanitation 15:21 department of God could not represent Jesus, 15:25 because He's that pure Lamb 15:27 without spot and without blemish. 15:29 And so today, when you think of now the temple services of old, 15:32 you must make the connection 15:33 that your body is the temple of God. 15:37 And the Bible says if any man defiles the temple, 15:39 him will God destroy. 15:41 For the temple of God is holy which temple we are. 15:43 So that's where the clean and the unclean comes in. 15:46 We must be before the Lord as clean as His earthly temple was. 15:51 So that earthly temple in the Old Testament, 15:54 we are the temple now in the New Testament. 15:58 We abide in Christ and it makes a difference. 16:02 Good point. I think we got another question too. 16:05 We need to keep going with our questions 16:06 because this next one is one that we've had-- 16:10 initially we talked about it before 16:12 and we've had some follow-up questions to it. 16:13 So, John, why don't you lead us into that one? 16:15 As a matter of fact, I received an email from a gentleman 16:17 and I believe that all the emails 16:19 that we get are very sincere, 16:22 but I want to read a little bit of it and what I'd like to do, 16:25 John, is not just on this program, 16:27 but maybe in another program to follow, address the question. 16:31 As I mentioned some of you like to send really long questions 16:34 and in some cases, some of you don't really send questions 16:39 as much as you try to straighten us out. 16:42 And we welcome those too, 16:43 because I think that this is a two-way program. 16:46 You are very much a part of it 16:48 and we do appreciate anything you send. 16:50 Gentleman sent us a question here 16:53 and I think his name is Fermon, 16:57 a very unique name, I don't know 16:59 where that originates from but sounds foreign. 17:02 However, he was concerned about something 17:05 we taught about the 144,000 and the great multitudes, 17:09 a feeling that it didn't measure up 17:11 with what the beliefs of the pioneers were 17:14 and in specifics, the issue that I'm gonna talk about right now 17:18 is Revelation Chapter 7. 17:20 It's quite a long chapter, 17:22 but what I'm going to hope to do is condense it 17:25 in the context of his question. 17:28 Let me go ahead and read what he pointed out here 17:31 and then we'll go right to that and we'll see this together. 17:35 I pointed out that he mentioned he was concerned 17:38 that what we said was unscriptural 17:40 and didn't line up with the pioneers. 17:42 And thank you so much for that view, appreciate that. 17:44 Speaking of the pioneers of the Seventh-day Adventist church. 17:46 Pioneers of the Seventh-day Adventist church 17:48 and the 'Great Controversy,' 'Desire of Ages,' 17:51 Ellen White's writings, and this is what he said 17:53 and this is the question I want to address first. 17:56 And by the way, if you have your Bibles 17:57 go with us to Revelation Chapter 7. 18:00 If you have the King James, New King James, 18:02 whatever translation you have, that's just fine, 18:04 because primarily we're going to condense it 18:06 and, John, you know, feel free to 18:09 banter back and forth here with me 18:11 as we address the issue 18:13 that was brought up in this question. 18:15 He says first--first in Revelation Chapter7 18:17 by just reading this 17 verses, 3 sections are brought to view. 18:24 That's the first thing that I don't agree with. 18:28 But he said there are three sections, not two. 18:32 And I do agree that they are positions pointed out here, 18:35 but the thing I want to emphasize 18:37 more than anything else is there are two groups 18:39 brought to view in chapter 7, 18:41 not three groups, not three sections. 18:45 Let's go ahead and continue reading the question. 18:47 I'll continue reading the question. 18:49 It says verse 1 to 8 deals with the 144,000, 18:54 verse 9 to 12 deals with the great multitude, 18:57 but then verses 13 to 17, this is what he says, 19:02 deals with another group which are radiant and white robes 19:08 and on this point is the key that opens up the truth. 19:12 When the question was asked in verse 13, 19:14 "Who are these radiant white robes and whence came they?" 19:18 The answer in verse 14 and 15, this is what he says, 19:22 clearly shows that it is not the great multitude 19:26 that the elder was referring to, 19:30 who were sealed from the earth mentioned in verses 1 to 8. 19:35 Why? Here's his reasoning. 19:38 Because by reading verses 14 and 15, 19:40 they are said to be serving God in His temple 19:43 which only the 144,000 would do, not the great multitude. 19:47 And also that they shall come out of the great tribulation 19:50 which refers to the time of Jacob's trouble 19:53 that the 144,000 must pass through 19:56 before the second coming of Christ. 19:58 And verse 16 refers to their experience 20:01 during the seven last plagues 20:03 that they had to pass through which corresponding 20:06 reward mentioned in verse 17 20:10 or with corresponding reward mentioned in verse 17. 20:13 Okay, let me break it down. 20:15 Here's the thing thant I don't agree with him 20:17 and this is the reason I'm sharing this with you. 20:20 What I'm going to do now is read the very division, 20:22 John, that he pointed out happens. 20:24 He says that up to verse 12, 9 to 12, 20:28 he says is referring just to the great multitude. 20:31 Now we did not disagree that verse 1 to 8 20:33 is referring to the 144,000. That's very clear. 20:37 But you'll find these two words, 20:39 let's begin with verse 9 of Revelation Chapter 7. 20:42 It starts with these two words, 20:45 "After these things," that's in the King James version, 20:49 in the New King James version you find the word or the phrase 20:52 "after this," all right. 20:55 It says--or the other way around, 20:57 "After these things I looked and behold, 20:59 a great multitude which no one could number." 21:02 First observation, one group could be numbered, 21:06 the other one cannot be numbered. 21:08 And by the way that's consistent and the person that's addressing 21:11 this is a Seventh-day Adventist, 21:12 that's consistent with the Bible commentary. 21:16 A group that can be numbered, 21:17 another group that cannot be numbered. 21:20 All right, let's continue. 21:22 And where is this group coming from? 21:23 Notice another point, "Of all nations," 21:28 middle of verse 9, "tribes, peoples and tongues 21:31 standing before the throne and before the Lamb." 21:35 That's where they are. 21:36 First of all, they're made up of all the nations, 21:38 all the tribes, all the tongues, 21:39 all the people as compared to the 144,000 21:43 made up of the 12 tribes of the children of Israel, 21:46 clearly once again showing that they are separate. 21:49 But this is the part that, he pointed out this, 21:51 he says the group that's talked 21:53 about in verse 13 has white robes, 21:55 that's why they cannot represent the great multitude. 21:58 Well, that point is refuted right away in verse 9. 22:02 It's there as I'll read verse 9 altogether again. 22:05 "After these things I looked and behold a great multitude 22:07 which no one could number of all nations, tribes, 22:10 peoples and tongues standing before the throne 22:13 and before the Lamb clothed with white robes 22:17 and palm branches in their hands." 22:20 So when you say in verse 13 that the great multitude 22:24 doesn't have on white robes, that's how they are dressed. 22:27 That's how they are introduced, as having on white robes. 22:31 You know, the other way to see this too 22:32 and I know you're probably getting there 22:34 is verses 9 through 12 picture the great multitude in heaven. 22:40 Verses 13 and 17 is the question about where they came from 22:44 which is really what's being dealt with in chapter 7. 22:48 So in 13 to 17, John is giving the answers to where this group 22:53 that was pictured in heaven comes from and puts them, 22:57 that great multitude, it puts them back on the earth 23:00 during the great tribulation, 23:03 okay, which is such a time as never was, 23:05 which is still to come. 23:07 So these are right in harmony with Adventist basic teaching 23:10 on the 144,000 and the great multitude. 23:13 Thank you, John, but now let's go on 23:15 because verse 10 down to verse 12, 23:18 to the end of verse 12, verse 9 describes 23:23 this multitude that no one could remember 23:26 having on white robes, but then now verse 10 to verse12 23:30 describes what they are doing, okay, showing clearly, 23:34 "And crying with a loud voice saying, 23:36 'Salvation belongs to our God, 23:38 who sits on the throne and to the Lamb.' 23:41 And all the angels stood around the throne 23:42 and the elders and the four living creatures 23:44 and fell on their faces before the throne 23:46 and worshipped God saying, 23:48 'Amen, blessing and glory and wisdom, 23:53 thanksgiving and honor and power and might 23:56 be to our God forever and ever, amen.'" 23:59 Okay, so verse 10 down to verse 12 describes this scene 24:04 that the great multitude are part of. 24:06 They're praising God, the 24 elders are praising God, 24:09 the four living creatures are praising God in heaven. 24:13 But now here's the question 24:14 and the question I suggest you 24:16 is not about the four living creatures 24:18 and not about the 24 elders because they're already there. 24:21 It can't be about them. 24:22 Nobody else is introduced into the scenario 24:24 except the next group, 24:26 the multitude that no one could remember. 24:28 And look what it says-- 24:29 and to make sure that it's referring to that group, 24:31 it also brings in the fact that they have on white robes. 24:34 Referring to that group he already saw. 24:37 Notice this and it says, 24:40 "Then one of the elders answered saying to me, 24:42 'Who are these arrayed in white robes 24:46 and where did they come from?'" 24:50 Well, how do we make the connection? 24:51 Verse 13 and verse 9, both mention white robes 24:57 and verse 9 introduces the multitude 24:58 that no one could number in white robes. 25:02 And by the way if you were to read down 25:04 from verse 1 down to verse 4, 25:07 you will not see the 144,000 25:10 referred to as having on white robes. 25:16 Okay, I just did a pause there, just to double check, 25:19 not having on white robes. 25:20 So the only group mentioned in chapter 7 25:22 with white robes, not saying the 144,000 don't have it 25:26 but they are not mentioned here with it on, all right. 25:29 So now let's go again. 25:31 Look at the answer, verse 14 25:33 "And I said to him, 'Sir, you know.' 25:35 So he said to me 'These are the ones 25:37 who come out of the great tribulation 25:39 and wash their robes and made them white 25:42 in the blood of the Lamb.'" 25:43 Therefore again, once again, this group talked about 25:46 in verse 9 having on white robes, 25:49 how did their robes get white? 25:51 It says they made them white in the blood of the Lamb. 25:54 Now here's the thing that really must be addressed, 25:57 because it says the 144,000 pass through the great tribulation 26:03 and when let me add this, the great multitude 26:05 come out of the great tribulation. 26:08 That's where you find the separation. 26:09 I think that he didn't make that connection there, 26:12 because he pointed out here, and verse 17 or verse 16 26:15 refers to their experience during the seven last plagues 26:18 that they had to pass through 26:19 with the corresponding reward mentioned in verse 17. 26:23 And also he said that the 144,000 must pass through, 26:27 that is, the great tribulation. 26:28 I fully agree with the fact that they must pass through, 26:31 they pass through the great tribulation 26:33 but who comes out of the great tribulation is the question. 26:37 And that's the group that comes out of the great tribulation, 26:40 the multitude that no one could number. 26:43 Good, I like the way you put that together. 26:44 I think it's very clear, but that's good, 26:47 the word we often don't use 26:50 that is so important is exegesis. 26:55 And we were talking about this even before the program, 26:57 how you've got to take the text and pull out of it 27:01 what the text is actually saying 27:03 rather than trying to read a view into the text. 27:06 So when they do that they arrive at a conclusion 27:09 and they try to read that into the text, eisegesis. 27:12 So a good exegetical look at this passage, 27:16 I think you've covered that. 27:18 Another point to add to this just to help understand 27:21 that these two groups are clearly evident, not three, 27:24 and we gloss right over this. 27:26 I have a sermon actually I did fairly recently on this 27:29 and I did some good study on it. 27:30 Look at the firth seal. 27:32 Okay, let's go to the fifth seal. 27:34 Tell our listeners and viewers where we are. 27:36 The fifth seal which is Revelation Chapter 6 27:39 beginning with verse 9. Okay, verse 9. 27:40 Now the sixth seal, before we read the fifth seal, 27:43 the sixth seal is the great tribulation. 27:46 You can't mistake that when you read it, 27:47 because it talks about how the great earthquake begins. 27:50 It's the beginning of it. 27:51 The sun becomes black, the moon becomes like blood, 27:53 the stars of heaven fall to the earth, 27:56 the sky recedes as a scroll and all the things 27:58 we know historically that are leading up 28:00 to the second coming of Christ. 28:01 But look at this, verse 9 talking about the fifth seal. 28:05 "He opened the fifth seal 28:06 and I saw under the altar the souls 28:08 of those who had been slain for the word of God 28:10 and for the testimony which they held." 28:11 Now most of the time we spend on the fifth seal 28:14 is usually answering that part of it. 28:16 Because these souls are under the altar 28:19 and they are slain for the word of God 28:22 and for the testimony which they held. 28:24 And, you know, we know that these souls aren't literal 28:27 people confined underneath the altar, 28:30 but this is their martyred blood that still cries out to God, 28:33 their prayers that ascended to God at the time 28:35 they were going through this terrible persecution 28:37 and the tribulation they went through still appear before God 28:41 at the altar of incense and he wants to avenge them 28:45 and that's what the rest of it says. 28:46 Look at this, verse 10, 28:48 "And they cried with a loud voice, saying, 28:49 'How long, O Lord, holy and true, 28:52 until you judge and avenge our blood 28:54 on those who dwell on the earth?'" 28:57 Now look at this verse 11, "When the white robe"-- 29:02 Read that again. 29:03 "When a white robe," white robe, now notice that 29:07 "was given to each of them 29:11 and it was said to them that they should rest 29:15 a little while longer until both," 29:19 there are two things that are going to happen, 29:21 before this white robe 29:23 or the white robe is given to them 29:25 so they could have that white robe guaranteed 29:27 of what will happen so these-- before these two things happen. 29:31 So there's two things that are gonna happen. 29:33 "Both the number of their fellow servants 29:37 and their brethren who would be killed as they were, 29:41 was completed," two things. 29:44 Do you know that that verse also can be translated 29:46 as their fellow servants in number? 29:50 That's a very good point. That's--until the--yeah-- 29:53 What are the only servants that are identified 29:55 in the Book of Revelation that are numbered? 29:58 The 144,000. 144,000. 30:00 So there's fellow servants in number and their brethren 30:04 who would be killed as they were, was completed. 30:07 Two groups identified that they had to wait for 30:11 before the blood would be avenged that was shed 30:15 because of their faithfulness to God. 30:18 Then the very next-- come on, the very next chapter 30:21 we're seeing a number identified, the 144,000 30:25 and we're seeing a group who go through great tribulation 30:28 who'd be killed as they were as this verse says, 30:30 both of them identified in this. 30:33 That's right because the word both. 30:35 Both. 30:36 There are two groups. 30:37 You've got to pay attention to the comma. 30:38 I think the comma is placed in the right, 30:40 in the accurate spot here. 30:42 "Both the number of their fellow servants 30:45 and their brethren who will be killed as they were, 30:48 was completed." 30:51 Key. Very key. 30:53 And this is found in the fifth seal 30:54 before the sixth seal actually unfolds 30:58 before the great tribulation occurs. 31:01 So I would suggest to you 31:03 that if the number of the fellow servants was completed, 31:06 that they had been sealed 31:07 by the time you finally see the sixth seal opened, 31:12 that's what that tells me. 31:13 So and look at this. 31:14 The first four seals are definitely four horsemen. 31:19 The sixth seal is definitely the great tribulation. 31:22 The sixth seal seems to be a pause to tell us 31:25 that something important is going to happen 31:27 or needs to happen before the great tribulation. 31:31 No argument there. 31:32 And then when you have the sixth seal unfold 31:34 and then you get to this chapter 7, 31:36 you see in more detail what happened in the pause 31:40 before the great tribulation. 31:41 Boom. 31:42 Okay, I can't argue with that. 31:44 I mean, I get excited about this 31:47 because the more we read the Book of Revelation 31:51 and I think you are about to cover this too, 31:53 the more truth, the more stuff we begin to see 31:57 that God is revealing to us 31:59 and to those who are diligent and faithful studying, 32:02 the studiers of this book, 32:06 that the reward and the blessing comes. 32:08 Anyway, I just think it's so consistent and so powerful 32:11 as you read this that actually occurs. 32:13 So in many respects those who hold the view 32:17 that this man-- and I know probably with good intentions. 32:19 We're not talking about his intentions at all, 32:21 but those that hold the view, 32:23 we find that there's a bit of a breakdown in that 32:25 if you read in this context the entirety of the scriptures 32:29 that read up to or lead up to chapter 7. 32:31 That's right. 32:32 Coming up to the point, that's why it's important 32:34 when you look at the larger picture, 32:37 and this what we're talking about here 32:38 and not just the dissected portion of it, 32:41 each component is a part of the larger picture. 32:43 We understand that and know that, 32:44 but when you start taking into consideration what's there 32:49 and then adding what is not there 32:51 is where the challenge comes in. 32:53 Another question I'd like to throw out 32:54 and maybe somebody could respond to this question, 32:57 does the sealing take place before the shaking 33:00 or does the sealing take place after the shaking? 33:03 I'd like to look forward to your response to that question. 33:05 Another one, the great tribulation 33:07 talked about in Revelation Chapter 7, 33:11 is that ahead of us or has it already happened? 33:14 Third question, is the worst behind us 33:16 or is the worst ahead of us? 33:18 And so those are some of the things 33:20 that I'd like you to-- 33:21 and the reason I throw that out there is 33:22 because in your study you'll discover that some of the things 33:26 that you may have taken for granted 33:28 are spoken of in Scripture as well as for those of you 33:32 who read the writings of Ellen White 33:34 are expounded clearly there 33:36 and the further understanding or as she would say, 33:39 "greater light" is being shed on these topics 33:42 than many head up to this particular point, 33:45 even held on to. 33:46 Let me just throw this one out there, John, 33:47 for those who are diligent Bible students 33:49 or those who study the writings of Ellen White 33:53 because I've studied for many, many years, 33:56 even long before I was a pastor I studied that, 33:58 but I also like to throw this question out 34:01 and you send this back to me, Revelation Chapter 13, 34:04 there are two beasts mentioned there in Revelation Chapter 13. 34:07 If you have the time to do that send me what you've concluded. 34:11 This is the second beast of Revelation Chapter 13. 34:14 I'd like to find out what you've come up with. 34:15 If I leave that there to hang out, I'll do little bit. 34:17 You know, I would suggest too, 34:19 this is a great place to go to Facebook fan page 34:21 and under discussion to throw out your comments on that. 34:24 Yeah, but don't forget our 'House calls' page. 34:27 No, no, no, I'm not suggesting that at all, 34:29 because that's where we deal with our questions and stuff, 34:31 but in ongoing dialogue, 34:32 we will be in that fan page doing some dialogues. 34:35 We are doing the J-best thing, 34:36 we are expanding our borders. 34:38 Appreciate you very much. 34:39 So if you have any questions, 34:40 I think we are going to wind up here today, 34:42 so we could dive into our topic. 34:43 If you have any questions, 34:44 I know we have agitated some things today here 34:46 in your mind and in your thinking, 34:48 send your questions to housecalls@3abn.org, 34:51 that's housecalls@3abn.org. 34:53 And we will try our best to do justice to it 34:57 as we answer from the word of God. 34:58 And for those of you 34:59 who are students of extra biblical writings 35:02 we will be glad to address that also. 35:04 Thank you so much. 35:05 Now, John, we are going to divide-- not divide, 35:08 but dive into our topic 35:10 and so go ahead and lead us into that 35:12 since I did a lot of talking already. 35:13 Well, this is part two of our study on hell. 35:18 And, you know, there's different misconceptions 35:20 that we find out there in the world 35:22 taught by many Christian groups. 35:25 And so we're trying to clarify what the Bible says about hell 35:29 and also some of those common misconceptions 35:31 and I think the last time we talked a bit about how hell is-- 35:38 hell is something that is 35:40 frequently spoken of in the scriptures, 35:42 but we don't find anywhere in those verses 35:48 or at least in the study so far 35:50 where it indicates that hell is burning now, 35:53 that it is a place that is deep in the bowels of the earth 35:58 or that Satan is in charge of, 36:01 that is burning right now or it's hot right now. 36:04 So we did not find any verse at least leading up to that-- 36:07 to that kind of conclusion. 36:10 But there are some questions that we haven't answered yet 36:13 and we are going to try and cover some of these things 36:15 and I believe we left also in-- 36:17 we covered briefly Revelation Chapter 20 36:20 and we're going to go back there, 36:22 pick up kind of where we left off, 36:25 kind of recap some of what we talked about 36:27 and then I think that will take us then 36:29 to the next step of where we want to go. 36:30 Sounds good to me. 36:31 So let's go to Revelation Chapter 20. 36:33 And since we're already in Revelation, 36:35 just turn over with us to a few-- 36:37 Yes, just a few verses to your right. 36:41 All right, so if you take a look at Revelation Chapter 20-- 36:44 first of all, Chapter 19 talks about the return of Christ. 36:48 Then we get to Revelation Chapter 20 36:51 and the first three verses there 36:53 talking about how Satan has then grabbed a hold of, 36:57 how he's bound by this chain 36:59 and we talked about the bottomless pit 37:02 and here bottomless pit is referring to the abyss 37:05 which is really the condition, 37:07 also discussed as the condition of the world 37:10 that was at the very beginning 37:12 as God began to create it when nothing quite was on it yet, 37:15 but He began to create. 37:16 It was kind of in an abyss state. 37:18 God's Spirit hovered over the deep, 37:20 the deep referring to this nothingness. 37:24 And then, of course, Isaiah talks about how the earth he saw 37:27 was without form and void on the face of the earth 37:31 which we did touch on last time, 37:32 but here the devil then is bound to this bottomless pit, 37:35 this abyss state of the earth. 37:38 But then go on to verse 4 where it says that, 37:42 "I saw thrones and they sat on them 37:45 and judgment was committed to them 37:46 and I saw the souls of those 37:47 who had been beheaded for the witness to Jesus-- 37:50 their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, 37:54 who had not worshipped the beast or his image 37:57 and had not received his mark on their forehead or on their hands 38:00 and they lived and reigned 38:01 with the Christ for a thousand years." 38:03 Clearly a thousand years of them being with Christ, 38:06 not Christ coming down to be with them. 38:09 You know, we may have touched on this point, 38:11 but it's worth saying again 38:12 that the thousand years of peace have, 38:15 John, they have not begun yet. 38:18 We are not in a period right now 38:20 where there is a thousand years of peace. 38:21 I don't think anybody would argue with that. 38:23 That's amazing. 38:24 Yeah, and more than that, 38:26 this doesn't seem to indicate that the thousand years of peace 38:28 will even be on this earth, right. 38:31 I mean it seems to me that Jesus comes down, 38:34 John 14:1-3, "I will come to receive you to Myself 38:38 and where I am there you will be also." 38:41 Not where you are there I will be also. 38:43 So He's not coming to join us, we are going to join Him. 38:45 He's coming down to pick us up to join Him. 38:47 And that's what this is talking about, 38:49 how the saints will reign with Christ for a thousand years. 38:52 And that's where we pick this story up here. 38:56 What's wonderful about that exposition is this 38:59 and I want to just reiterate that 39:01 so the point doesn't get sailed over your head 39:03 is there is a post-tribulation, pre-millennialism. 39:10 Big words, don't choke on those. 39:12 Then there's pre-tribulation, 39:14 pre-millennialism, which simply means, 39:17 post-tribulation, pre-millennialists believe 39:21 that after the tribulation and before the millennium starts, 39:25 Jesus is going to come. 39:27 We are post-tribulation, pre-millennialists. 39:30 We believe that after the tribulation 39:32 and before the millennium, 39:35 Jesus is going to return. 39:38 Well, there are pre-tribulations, 39:40 pre-millennialists that believe the rapture, 39:42 the secret rapture is going to take place 39:45 before the tribulation 39:47 and before the actual visible coming of Christ. 39:52 So they believe in this secret snatching away 39:54 which is a proponent that is espoused by many 39:57 who read books like 'Left Behind.' 40:01 And I've always said, tongue-in-cheek, 40:03 the truth has been left behind. 40:05 But in this same thing, 40:09 you find that they also have an unusual view of what hell is, 40:14 in the same sense, that same group believes that hell, 40:18 and I'm not making this a blanket statement, 40:21 but many evangelicals believe 40:23 that hell is a place of never ending torment, 40:27 never ending torture. 40:29 A fire is burning the wicked and they're writhing in pain, 40:33 and as the Bible says, in anguish, 40:37 men gnashing their teeth 40:40 forever and ever and ever and ever. 40:43 And they often put it in this context, 40:51 oh, let's go-- 40:52 well, I'll get to that eventually, 40:55 but let's go ahead and look at the very next verse, verse 5. 40:58 Because you find that there's another group introduced here 41:00 which would take us to the topic of hell, 41:02 which is asking us the question, 41:04 where did the first group 41:06 that is talked about as being in heaven, 41:08 reigning with Christ a thousand years, 41:09 where did they come from 41:11 and where is the second group going to come from, 41:14 that's talked about it in verse 5. 41:15 Why don't you take us to verse 5, John? 41:17 Verse 5 says "The rest of the dead did not live again 41:22 until the thousand years were finished. 41:24 This is the first resurrection." 41:26 So speaking of verses 4 and 5 41:29 is in the context of the first resurrection, 41:31 that is, that the saints that are sleeping in Jesus, 41:35 that they were resurrected to live and reign with Him 41:38 for a thousand years in heaven, 41:40 but the rest of the dead, 41:41 the wicked that do not sleep in Jesus, 41:43 did not rise, they did not experience a resurrection, 41:48 they remained dead. 41:49 That's right. 41:50 That's why verse 6 is so vitally important. 41:52 It makes the connection between those two verses. 41:53 Continue. 41:54 "Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. 41:59 Over such the second death has no power, 42:02 but they shall be priests of God and of Christ 42:04 and shall reign with Him a thousand years." 42:09 So there you see again, the "reigning with" 42:11 is not Him reigning with us on earth 42:14 in this millennial kingdom on earth, 42:16 but us reigning with Him. 42:18 Reiterating and I think we can't say it enough, 42:21 He says, "I go to prepare a place for you 42:24 and I will come again and receive you unto Myself 42:26 that where I am, there you may be also," 42:30 not where you are, there I may be also. 42:33 And, you know, where the root of that misconception is? 42:36 Where-- which direction this is coming from 42:40 as far as some believe in Christ comes down here 42:42 to reign for the thousand years 42:43 or those believing that the resurrection occurs 42:47 for the saints to go with Him? 42:48 1 Thessalonians 4, it's read backward. 42:51 Very good. 42:52 It's read backward. 42:53 Take a look at that here real quick 42:55 before we continue on with Revelation 20. 42:57 1 Thessalonians Chapter 4. 42:59 Okay. 43:01 You know, John, I went back to my old Bible. 43:03 I have two new Bibles that are newer than this one 43:06 but I went back to my old Bible that has all the markings in it 43:09 because it says tried and true that. 43:10 You know what, this Bible that I have 43:12 and I think that this is what you're saying about yours, 43:14 it opens to where you want to go. 43:16 It just kind of-- it works in my hand. 43:19 I don't know what to say. 43:21 It's tested. It's great. 43:22 1 Thessalonians Chapter 4 and take a look, 43:25 look at this, starting with Verse 13 this time, 43:28 "But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, 43:30 concerning those who have fallen asleep 43:32 lest you sorrow as others who have no hope." 43:35 So Paul here is going to talk about 43:36 what happens to those who are sleeping in Christ. 43:40 That's the whole discussion 43:42 of what is to come in the next few verses. 43:44 Then in verse 14 it says, 43:45 "For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, 43:49 even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus." 43:54 Now most of the time, evangelicals today 43:56 and I believe honest, well-meaning Bible Christians 44:00 teach that Jesus is bringing from heaven the saints 44:05 that have already fallen asleep, that have ascended to heaven, 44:08 bring with Him from heaven down those with Him 44:12 so he can reign for a thousand years on earth with them. 44:15 Right, but If you look at the context-- 44:17 The context is, as Jesus died and rose again, 44:22 that they will do. 44:23 When Jesus died, where did He go? 44:25 He went to heaven. To heaven. 44:26 That's right. 44:27 So when we are raised, where do we go? 44:30 To heaven. 44:31 So Jesus is bringing those who are being resurrected, 44:37 who sleep in Jesus with Him to heaven to be with Him. 44:42 And that's the comparison. 44:43 As a fulfillment of John 14: 1- 3. 44:45 And that's the comparison. 44:46 I mean, I love that because, it says, 44:48 "If we believe that Jesus died and rose again." 44:50 Stop. 44:51 Do we believe that Jesus died and rose again? 44:52 Yes, we do. 44:53 And when He rose, what did He do? 44:54 He went to heaven. 44:56 Even so. That's right. 44:58 Because you remember that the resurrection-- 45:00 Even the same way. 45:01 The same way, God will bring with Him, 45:04 God will bring with Jesus those who sleep in Him, 45:07 those who sleep in Jesus. 45:09 Not God, not Jesus bringing with Him when He comes back, 45:12 but in the same way that God raised up Christ from the dead, 45:16 He's going to raise up those who are sleeping in Jesus 45:18 and they're going to come back with Him, 45:20 not come back to the earth. 45:21 So the big issue here is 45:23 the misconception of what Jesusis coming back for. 45:26 You see, the incorrect view 45:28 which is He is bringing the saints 45:29 from heaven already down to earth, 45:32 the reason Jesus is coming back is to establish 45:34 an earthly millennial reign of a thousand years. 45:37 But that's not why He is coming back. 45:39 John 14:1-3 says He is coming back 45:41 to take His people back to heaven 45:44 to the place that He is preparing for them. 45:47 So He is coming back 45:48 to take them to heaven for a thousand years. 45:50 See, the exact opposite of 45:51 what is being taught is really going to occur. 45:55 And so many are living, you know, or thinking, Bible, 45:58 you know, believing or thinking these teachers 46:02 are teaching from the Bible, 46:03 they're thinking that this 46:04 thousand years is about to start. 46:06 You know some to the point, John, 46:07 where the explanation 46:09 for Christ's return becomes symbolic. 46:12 They believe He already has returned 46:15 and that the thousand years have already begun. 46:17 And they say, well, aren't we improving 46:19 in healthcare, in our technology? 46:22 Isn't the world becoming 46:24 a little bit better of a place than it used to? 46:25 I mean, look at the Dark Ages, 46:27 look at the horrible things they went through. 46:28 Aren't we improving as a society? 46:30 I would suggest to you, no, we're not. 46:33 In fact, not even suggest to you, I'd prove it to you. 46:35 Just look at our world today, we're not getting better. 46:38 We're getting worse. 46:39 And that's why so many people 46:40 are involved in the political processes of earth. 46:43 They're trying to get it ready for the coming of Jesus. 46:46 Yes. 46:47 That's just a misconception. 46:48 That's so distorted. 46:50 Jesus is not coming down and saying, 46:51 "Great, you guys finally got this earth together 46:55 and here I am. 46:56 Glad you got all those issues of abortion and not abortion 46:59 and death penalty and not death penalty. 47:02 Glad you got all those things sorted out 47:03 so that I can come and reign on earth. 47:04 Thank you for getting it together." 47:06 That's not the case. 47:08 And let me give a verse. Go ahead. 47:09 I'm gonna do the same thing, but go for it. 47:11 Probably the same one you're going to give, 2 Peter 3:10. 47:13 Okay, go for it. That's not the one. 47:15 "But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, 47:18 in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise 47:23 and the elements will melt with fervent heat, 47:27 both the earth and the works 47:29 that are in it will be burned up." 47:31 When Jesus comes again, 47:33 He is not coming to a place that people have prepared for Him 47:36 to rule for a thousand years. 47:37 He is coming to burn the earth up. 47:39 Just to consume all the sin 47:42 that has polluted it for the millennia that is behind us. 47:47 He's not coming to reform the earth. 47:51 As a matter of fact, nothing about the earth 47:52 is in a position of reformation. 47:53 That's why He says about Babylon in Revelation 18, 47:56 "Come out of her, my people, 47:58 lest you receive of her sins and of her plagues." 48:00 Here's another text, Psalm 50:3 48:03 "Our God shall come and shall not keep silence. 48:07 A fire shall devour before Him, 48:10 and it shall be very tempestuous around Him. 48:14 He shall call to the heavens from above and to the earth, 48:17 that He may judge His people," 48:19 and this is what he is going to say, 48:20 "Gather My saints together unto Me, 48:22 those that have made a covenant with Me by sacrifice." 48:27 And so clearly He's gathering-- 48:28 He's coming to gather His saints together. 48:30 He's not coming to bring them down who's already there. 48:33 And when you read the rest of 1 Thessalonians Chapter 4, 48:36 which I would beg for you to do right now, 48:39 we'll see clearly that the meeting takes place in the air. 48:43 The righteous are-- 48:45 Taking us out of the earth. 48:47 Exactly. We're being caught up. 48:48 We're not being caught down. 48:50 Notice the Bible makes it very clear, 48:52 verse 15 of 1 Thessalonians Chapter 4, 48:56 "For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, 48:59 that we who are alive and remain 49:01 until the coming of the Lord will by no means 49:04 precede those who are asleep." 49:06 And the word there in the column is dead for the word asleep. 49:10 "For the Lord Himself will descend 49:12 from heaven with a shout, 49:13 with the voice of an archangel, 49:15 with the trumpet of God 49:16 and the dead in Christ will rise first." 49:19 That's the resurrection. 49:21 "Then we who are alive and remain 49:23 shall be caught up together with them in the clouds 49:25 to meet the Lord in the air 49:27 and thus shall always be with the Lord." 49:29 In other words, the dead are being raised out of the graves, 49:32 the righteous are being caught up together 49:34 with them in the clouds, 49:36 being caught up, not being brought down, 49:38 being caught up together with them 49:41 in the clouds to meet, get that, to meet. 49:46 They haven't met the Lord yet. 49:48 They're going to meet Him in the clouds. 49:49 They're not up there having dinner with Him, 49:51 they're not there running back and forth 49:52 playing pianos and looking down on us, 49:54 they're going to meet Him in the clouds when He comes. 49:56 That point cannot be overemphasized 49:58 because this is the verse, 50:00 these are the verses that are often used 50:01 for the secret rapture and there's nothing secret about it. 50:04 That's right. 50:05 And in case you're thinking that it's a different time 50:08 that the Lord comes, 50:09 if you read on, we don't have to read all these, 50:11 but if you read on through Chapter 5, 50:13 "This coming is also as a thief" as described by Peter 50:17 and we read in 2 Peter Chapter 3. That's right. 50:20 But notice here, it says 50:22 "sudden destruction comes upon them." 50:23 It's the same event. Right. 50:25 It's an event of destruction for the wicked. 50:28 All right, so you can't place this 50:30 unless the wicked are destroyed twice which is not-- 50:36 Right, not in the second coming of Christ. 50:37 Not in the second coming of Christ. 50:38 That's the third coming Christ. 50:39 So let's go to that maybe, that's where we're heading next, 50:43 because we are talking about hell 50:45 and the common misconceptions. 50:47 We're trying to clarify those from Scripture 50:49 here in our study today. 50:51 Look at verse 7 of Revelation 20 as we continue on 50:53 with what happens here after the thousand years. 50:57 "When the thousand years have expired, 50:59 Satan will be released from his prison," 51:02 which remember, he was bound, 51:03 in verses 1 to 3, to the bottomless pit, 51:05 which we know is the earth without form and void, 51:08 destroyed at Christ's return, 51:11 His second coming and it says in verse 8, 51:14 "And will go out to deceive the nations 51:16 which are in the four corners of the earth, 51:18 Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle, 51:21 whose number is as the sand of the sea." 51:24 So if Satan is going out to tempt, 51:26 there had to have been another resurrection. 51:29 Very clear. Okay. 51:30 A second resurrection that is not of the saints, 51:33 but is of the wicked, 51:34 because they're the ones being deceived again now by Satan. 51:38 He didn't have anyone to tempt for a thousand years. 51:41 Now we has them to tempt again. 51:43 And before you go to the next passage, 51:45 I want to hit this in because this fits right here. 51:47 Go back to verse 5 and look at the introduction in verse 5. 51:50 It says, "But the rest of the dead 51:54 did not live again 51:56 until the thousand years were finished." 51:58 So we know by that verse, 52:00 after the thousand years they are resurrected. 52:03 And that's why, go ahead and look at verse-- 52:06 look at verse 9, 52:09 this group that Satan starts to gather together, 52:12 how do they come alive. Look at verse 9, read verse 9. 52:18 "They went up on the breadth of the earth 52:20 and surrounded the camp of the saints 52:22 and the beloved city." 52:24 Okay, so they went up on the breadth of the earth 52:27 which means they were not on the breadth of the earth 52:30 and what that means clearly, 52:31 the same language that's used in the-- 52:35 talking about the baptism of Jesus, 52:41 coming up out of the water, in the same way, 52:44 went up on the breadth of the earth. 52:47 He is talking about a coming up. Coming up out of what? 52:51 Out of their graves. 52:52 Well, let's go ahead and see that. 52:56 Could I do this? Yeah, you can finish it up. 52:58 Go to John Chapter 5. Go to John Chapter 5. 53:01 This is where they're coming up out of their graves 53:03 and the Bible makes it very, very clear 53:07 that this second resurrection is about to take place, 53:11 the second resurrection. 53:12 John Chapter 5, John, and read verse 28 and verse 29. 53:16 You see once again the two groups. 53:19 "Do not marvel at this for the hour is coming in which 53:21 all who are in the grave will hear His voice." 53:24 Okay, how many who are in the grave? 53:26 All. All, okay. 53:27 So the both, righteous and wicked are there. 53:29 That's why Paul uses the word, 53:31 "we cannot go before those who are asleep," dead. 53:33 That's what it is. Continue. 53:35 "And come forth those who have done good 53:38 to the resurrection of life 53:40 and those who have done evil 53:42 to the resurrection of condemnation." 53:43 Okay, what are they both doing there coming forth? 53:46 So when they come forth, 53:47 this group talked about in Revelation, 53:49 when they come forth, they come to forth 53:51 onto the breadth of the earth. 53:53 And that's what the resurrection is all about. 53:54 And this verse is not saying that there's one resurrection, 53:58 some will be raised to be condemned, 53:59 some will be raised to go to heaven. Exactly. 54:02 It actually speaks of the resurrection of life 54:05 and the resurrection of condemnation as a noun. 54:08 It's an event. These are separate events. 54:11 One is the event of the resurrection of life, 54:14 one is the event of the resurrection of condemnation. 54:16 There are two different events here. 54:18 That's right. It's separated by a thousand years. 54:20 That's why Revelation says, 54:21 the rest of the dead do not live again. 54:24 As a matter of fact, Daniel Chapter 12 54:27 and it talks about here in Daniel 12:2 it says, 54:32 "And many of those who sleep 54:34 in the dust of the earth shall awake, 54:38 some to everlasting life 54:41 and some to shame and everlasting contempt." 54:48 Two groups, life and some to shame 54:53 and everlasting contempt. 54:55 So you clearly see two groups, 54:57 two separate events. Go on. Very good. 55:00 Well, I'm just going to go back to Revelation 20. 55:02 Okay, let's do that. 55:03 Finish this section up before program's up today. 55:06 So when they went up on the breadth of the earth, 55:10 as they were convinced by Satan to do that. 55:13 Satan called the troops together, gathered them, 55:14 they said, "Let's go get that city, let's attack them." 55:17 And now that he has troops to do it with 55:19 and that the city has now descended," 55:21 that's another point, John, 55:22 what has happened to the city that's now on the earth. 55:27 It says that "At that point," 55:29 look at this, "fire came down from God 55:32 out of heaven and devoured them. 55:36 The devil who deceived them was cast into the lake of fire 55:39 and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are 55:43 and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever." 55:46 And it says, it repeats that again down below 55:50 where it says that in verse 14, 55:54 "Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. 55:57 This is the second death. 56:00 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life 56:02 was cast into the lake of fire." 56:05 So hell, which is an abbreviated version or word for hellfire. 56:12 Hell is not a place. 56:14 Hell is the burning fire 56:16 which seems to be an event at the end of time. 56:20 Rather than seems to be an event, 56:21 will be an event and fire came down from God out of heaven. 56:25 Where did it come to? 56:26 Fire came down from God of out of heaven in the location 56:30 where the wicked will be, that's on the earth. 56:33 And that's why when you look at this conflagration, 56:35 it's described as "and the smoke of their torment," 56:38 Revelation 14, "descended up forever and ever." 56:41 And you'll discover clearly that they are going to burn, 56:44 this massive conflagration 56:45 is going to burn until they are consumed. 56:49 We're going to talk about that in another program 56:50 because people will say, "Ha, there you go, 56:53 they are going to burn endlessly 56:55 without any rest and they'll never stop burning." 56:58 Well, here's the telltale thing 56:59 and I know we have just a few seconds, 57:01 Chapter 21:1 actually goes with Chapter 20. 57:04 That's right. 57:05 So it tells you right there what the reason for that fire is. 57:08 Take a look at it. 57:09 We'll maybe hit on that on next time. 57:11 Well, you know, friends, that's the whole point. 57:13 Here at 'House Calls' we do believe 57:16 in standing firmly on the word of God 57:17 and we encourage you to continue to do that. 57:19 Study God's word, understand it for yourself, 57:21 because Jesus truly is coming soon. 57:25 And so as you look forward 57:26 for that great event and glorious day, 57:27 the best way to do it is give your life to Jesus Christ today. 57:30 God bless you and have a great day in Christ. |
Revised 2014-12-17