House Calls

Why So Many Denominations? Part 4

Three Angels Broadcasting Network

Program transcript

Participants: John Lomacang, John Stanton

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Series Code: HCL

Program Code: HCL110018


00:01 Hello, friends. Grab your Bible
00:03 and a friend and sit back as we explore God's word
00:05 together on this edition of House Calls.
00:22 Know you haven't made a mistake,
00:24 this is the correct channel,
00:25 this is 3ABN's House Calls program with John and John
00:29 So welcome to the most exciting place
00:32 to be at this time of the day, wherever you are
00:34 and whatever country you're tuning in from.
00:36 Thank you so much for tuning into House Calls.
00:38 I've got my good friend John with me today.
00:39 John, how are you doing today?
00:40 Yeah, I'm doing great. It's good to be here, John.
00:42 You look healthy and alive, that's a good thing.
00:44 And you, you as well. Lord is blessing you.
00:46 Praise God for that and we have some people
00:48 that have taken the time to tune in today.
00:49 And I hope you have your Bibles,
00:51 get your pens, your papers.
00:53 And don't forget we like questions,
00:55 think about those, because we have some
00:56 great questions for you today.
00:58 Before we go and continue our topic
01:00 on why so many denominations.
01:03 If you have missed any of the past ones,
01:05 you can contact 3ABN and surely they'll try to
01:08 find a way get that to you.
01:09 But before we do questions,
01:11 before we go to the Bible,
01:12 we always go to the Lord in prayer.
01:14 John, pray for us today. Be happy to.
01:17 Father in heaven we are blessed once again
01:19 to be part of this program
01:21 and not just we who are presenting the program,
01:25 but those who are listening or viewing this program
01:28 wherever they are. Lord, I just pray
01:30 that you would bring the power of your spirit,
01:32 Lord, to each one of us.
01:34 Guide and direct us through your word,
01:35 which is a lamp unto our feet and a light into our path.
01:38 Lord, may it ever be so, and especially throughout
01:41 these times where we have an opportunity to answer
01:43 questions and to cover a topic
01:45 we believe is important,
01:46 we believe also you believe it's important.
01:49 Thank you, Father, lead and guide us into truth,
01:51 in Jesus name, amen. Amen.
01:54 And don't forget now,
01:57 questions are very important to our program,
02:00 we often receive them via Internet,
02:04 that is at House Calls.
02:06 And so if you have any questions
02:07 you want to sent to us, send them to housecalls@3abn.org
02:10 that's the address on your screen.
02:11 housecalls@3abn.org and it comes through
02:15 something called the Internet,
02:17 it's a great medium of communication.
02:19 But if you don't have the Internet where you are,
02:21 and you prefer to send it by mail,
02:24 you can send it to us in envelope,
02:26 just address to House Calls, to 3ABN, PO Box 220,
02:32 West Frankfort, IL, 62896.
02:36 But this is the fun part of the program
02:39 as well as a very important part of the program.
02:42 So, John, what is our first question for today?
02:45 Well, it's a question that it has come up before,
02:48 I don't think we've answered it before.
02:50 But this comes from Langton and he's asking us,
02:56 was Jesus really crucified on the cross or stake,
03:00 a pole, some sects say the use of the cross
03:03 is pagan and the biblical cross
03:06 is a mistranslation, is this a fact?
03:09 And this comes to us from Zimbabwe.
03:12 Thank you very much for sending this question.
03:14 You know the Bible is fairly clear uses
03:17 the word cross over and over again,
03:19 and I know that some have suggested
03:21 that it's a mistranslation
03:23 but the other supporting part of this that it's
03:25 sometimes ignored is the tradition.
03:29 And how far it goes back of the church
03:31 and its understanding of how Christ was crucified. Okay.
03:35 The Roman tradition of crucifixion
03:37 was around for a long, long time.
03:40 And going back and looking at that Roman tradition,
03:43 I know there are some disputes as to
03:44 what the cross actually look like,
03:46 was the pole extending up beyond the horizontal
03:51 part of the cross or was it not,
03:55 was it more like a T, you know some debate that,
03:58 but for the most part it's pretty well
04:00 understood throughout history the cross
04:02 and whole crucifixion experience by the Romans
04:06 who have been doing it for a long time.
04:07 Nailed or roped people to two pieces of wood one vertical,
04:15 that's stuck into the ground, one horizontal,
04:17 so the armscould be overlapped over that.
04:19 And that was what the crucifixion
04:21 of the cross was all about.
04:23 Jesus was crucified,
04:25 that is clear and so we do know that cross,
04:29 the word cross is not pagan and origin per se.
04:33 It maybe considered pagan if you wanna go back to
04:36 that it was a Roman type of death penalty.
04:41 But as far as what Christ was crucified
04:44 on it was absolutely a cross.
04:46 So I don't see that as a mistranslation, John.
04:50 The cross is interesting, because people sometimes
04:54 get hung up on what Jesus crucified on.
04:58 Some say it was the T, which is the symbol
05:03 for the Latin letter Tau.
05:06 Others say, it was a torture stake,
05:08 you know the Jehovah's Witness commonly
05:09 use the phrase, torture stake.
05:12 Throughout the course of human history,
05:14 as well as Christian history, many have said,
05:16 well, since Jesus died for us on the cross
05:20 let us make the cross our symbol.
05:23 I think the problem comes in the minds of many
05:26 when the Christian uses the cross as their symbol,
05:29 when in fact the cross was never a Christian symbol.
05:32 But it was a symbol of,
05:35 it was the altar of torture to Gods
05:39 that did not represent the God of heaven,
05:42 that's why the Romans choose that.
05:45 But crucifixion was actually introduced by the Persians.
05:48 And by the time it got to Rome, you have Babylon,
05:51 Medo-Persia, Greece and then Rome.
05:54 Rome studied it to find out how they can get
05:59 the most impact from their victims that were being
06:02 hung on the cross.
06:04 And so it's more likely that
06:07 it was in the shape of the letter T,
06:09 this way because the victims
06:11 had no place to lean their head back in most cases
06:13 so their heads hung and the arms are draped over,
06:18 so that it would just make it almost difficult
06:20 or impossible for the victims to breathe,
06:24 thus having to push down on their legs
06:27 and excruciating pain from the fact that their legs
06:31 were also nailed one up above the other.
06:35 And the hands were nailed in the wrist.
06:37 So they pulled up every aspect
06:40 of it was continual pain.
06:41 So it was a torture, a torturous experience.
06:45 However, just to kind of go
06:48 back in the sense of memorial,
06:51 people say the cross is where my redemption was paid,
06:54 the cross is where the sacrifice
06:56 for my sins were made,
06:58 the cross is to me somewhat of my Statue of Liberty.
07:02 And so I could see how it has become representative
07:07 of the greatest level of sacrifice and self-denial
07:12 that anyone can ever express to save humanity.
07:16 That's why the cross has maintained today
07:18 such a revere among many Christians.
07:21 And it continues on because,
07:22 you know even Jesus said that those
07:25 who want to follow Him will take up their cross. Right.
07:28 And follow Him, so we ourselves have to endure
07:31 our own experience of death to self.
07:33 And a bearing of the cross as we go on in
07:36 following Christ as one of his disciples.
07:38 You know, one of the texts
07:40 that really jumps out at me, when I think of the cross
07:42 and I think of scripture is 1 Corinthians 1:18 it says,
07:47 "For the message of the cross is foolishness
07:49 to those who are perishing,
07:51 but to us who are being saved,
07:53 it is the power of God."
07:55 The cross isn't the power of God,
07:58 it's the message of the cross,
08:00 that's the power of God.
08:01 And so the symbol of the cross is,
08:04 strength to those
08:06 who understand the message behind it.
08:08 The symbol, as far as what is it,
08:10 it simply represents torture,
08:12 you know the way that the Romans killed Christ.
08:14 But if it wasn't for that death He died for us,
08:18 the message goes we would not have salvation,
08:21 we would not have redemption.
08:22 And so, praise the Lord, Jesus did accept that,
08:26 that death did sacrifices Himself
08:29 and that was all for us.
08:32 And I think you've answered the question
08:33 very, very well, thank you, John.
08:35 We have another question here from Marty,
08:39 Marty and it doesn't say where Mary is from.
08:43 But let me go ahead and read the question. Oh!
08:47 Sorry, that's not the one I want to get to first,
08:50 I want to get to this one
08:51 from the Donnelly first, in Jamaica.
08:54 Hey, welcome Jamaica, now that's not the way to say
08:58 welcome Jamaica, 'ya mon.'
09:01 My wife is Jamaican, for those of you in Jamaica,
09:04 forgive me, I didn't say that correctly,
09:06 but we're so glad that you're tuning in from Jamaica.
09:09 Here is the question, it is so wonderful to be
09:12 able to send in my Bible questions
09:14 to you on House Calls.
09:16 May the Holy Spirit continue to use you both
09:18 in his service for such a time as this.
09:20 Thank you very much. Praise the Lord.
09:21 I would like you to please expand on Isaiah 48:10,
09:25 specifically the latter part of the text
09:27 which says, I have chosen
09:30 the in the furnace of affliction.
09:33 Please explain for me
09:35 as I have not been able to understand it.
09:38 First, let me start with probably one of the most
09:40 commonly repeated stories in the Bible,
09:42 you know being raised we heard phrase of Daniel
09:45 in the lion's den, the Hebrews in the fiery furnace.
09:49 When you think of Isaiah 48,
09:52 Isaiah was a contemporary, a contemporary prophet.
09:56 Meaning, many of the things that were
09:59 experienced by Jeremiah, Hosea, you know Hosea,
10:04 Daniel were not too distance separated.
10:08 And so when you think of the fiery trials, these,
10:12 these phrases were mostly associated
10:14 with the affliction that was experienced by the Hebrews.
10:18 And you know there in Daniel 3 and verse 6.
10:22 They were warned that if they refused to worship
10:25 the image, they will be cast immediately into
10:28 the burning fiery furnace.
10:30 But when you look at Isaiah 48 it says,
10:33 I've chosen thee in the furnace of affliction.
10:37 What was the furnace of affliction for the Hebrews?
10:39 That burning fiery furnace,
10:41 however the phrase extends beyond the fiery furnace,
10:45 because there are those who are not
10:47 delivered from the fire, but like the Hebrews,
10:51 they're delivered in the fire.
10:54 So sometimes and just last week I was saying to someone
10:57 we often pray for God to remove
10:59 our trials and remove our afflictions,
11:00 remove our stumblings, the things that really
11:04 become irritations to us as Christians.
11:06 But, sometimes the very thing that God
11:10 has allowed to come your way is for his glory.
11:13 I use the example of the Hebrews in the fiery furnace,
11:15 had Nebuchadnezzar not seen
11:17 them be delivered in the fire.
11:19 Then Nebuchadnezzar would not have extolled
11:21 and exalted the God of Shadrach,
11:24 Meshach and Abednego.
11:26 So, do we have a furnace of affliction?
11:29 Everyone of us does.
11:31 Here's some text to encourage you.
11:34 1 Peter 4 and verse 12, "Beloved,
11:37 do not think it strange concerning the fiery trial,
11:42 which is to try you as though some
11:45 strange thing happened to you."
11:47 So do we go through fiery trials?
11:50 Have you had any, John? Plenty, yes.
11:52 I tell you, it's a part of this journey.
11:54 And the major reason why it's a part
11:56 of our Christian journey is not because we did anything
11:59 wrong, but because God is seeking to purify us.
12:03 Here's another one, Ephesians 6:16,
12:06 "above all, taking the shield of faith with
12:09 which you will be able to quench
12:11 the fiery darts of the wicked one."
12:13 Now the fiery darts are to keep you from being
12:17 consumed in those trials, but the fiery trials are
12:20 sometimes allowed to prepare you for the kingdom.
12:23 So they are a point of purification,
12:26 a point of separating the draws from the pure goal.
12:30 So that's simply what Isaiah 48 means.
12:34 God chooses us in the furnace of affliction,
12:37 or specifically sometimes how the Hebrew
12:40 may say it there,
12:41 in the furnace of affliction we become the chosen.
12:45 And what that means is, how can we be chosen
12:48 of God if the impurities are not separated.
12:51 So in the furnace of affliction
12:53 we are being developed as the chosen.
12:55 To miss the process of fire,
12:58 to miss the process of purification,
13:01 matter of fact, go with me to Revelation Chapter 3,
13:04 John, you may want to turn there.
13:08 This illustrates the point very well,
13:11 Revelation Chapter 3.
13:13 Let me see if I need my glasses on this one.
13:19 Yes, here it is, Revelation 3:18.
13:24 "I counsel you" Jesus says,
13:26 "to buy from Me gold tried or refined in the fire,
13:32 that you may be rich."
13:33 Now gold, if you've gold you're rich already,
13:37 but if you have refined gold you really are rich.
13:41 What that means is when a prospector gets gold out
13:43 of the ground, it's in one form,
13:45 but it has a lot of impurities in it.
13:47 But when that gold is purified,
13:49 its what's called pure gold,
13:52 or as a person may say, solid gold.
13:56 No pits in it, no rocks in it, no sand in it.
14:00 And that's the reason,
14:02 the great reason for fiery trials.
14:04 The Lord separates from us all those things
14:07 that only trials can separate.
14:10 John, for example, you think about a person
14:12 going through difficulty, when a person goes
14:15 through difficulty, you know what happens?
14:17 All of a sudden their prayer life becomes genuine.
14:21 You know, you don't pray you know Father,
14:22 thank you the food, thank you for the--
14:24 You pray, Lord. Earnestly, more serious.
14:27 That's right, I mean,
14:29 so what do you think about that?
14:30 Well, we've all gone through those moments
14:32 where we just feel like, you know, Lord,
14:36 where are you?
14:37 I'm desperate, I need you now.
14:38 And the heartfelt earnest pleadings of a child to God,
14:44 you know or something the God clearly
14:45 has asked us to do.
14:47 I mean, to appeal to him as our Father.
14:51 And so we do that sometimes as children
14:53 do with their fathers, daddy help! Right.
14:56 And at those moments especially when we are in
14:58 the midst of fiery trials is when God responds
15:01 and blesses in accordance with the prayer of faith.
15:05 And so these trials drive us to practice our faith
15:09 not just be a everyday, yes, I believe,
15:12 thank you Lord, like you said, for this food,
15:14 and for all the things you've done for me
15:16 and how you bless me.
15:17 But a true practice, an earnestness
15:19 to our faith that moves mountains.
15:22 And in many case those mountains are our fiery
15:25 trials that are right in front of us that only
15:27 can be changed by God. That's right.
15:29 And we find out who we are,
15:32 God doesn't find out who we are,
15:34 we find out out who we are when trials come our way,
15:36 God knows who we are.
15:37 Sometimes he allows those fiery trials to come
15:39 so that we can see who we really are.
15:42 Just, if you ask somebody the question,
15:46 this is very sensitive, and I know this is,
15:48 I'm gonna use this example,
15:49 because my sister work, still today works with
15:52 the fire department of New York City.
15:53 And one of the most atrocious experiences
15:55 were the World Trade Center incident there
15:58 and also in Washington DC.
16:01 But the atrocities that happened in New York City
16:04 were when people-- If you ask somebody,
16:07 would you have a jump out off the World Trade Center?
16:09 Would you have a jump off
16:10 the roof of the World Trade Center?
16:11 Would you have a jump out of a building that high?
16:13 People would say absolutely not.
16:16 The sad sensitive reality was,
16:20 when the fire was lapping against them,
16:23 people made decisions that they would not
16:25 normally make under normal circumstances.
16:28 In the very same way when trials come our way
16:32 we decide at that moment whether or not
16:36 we're gonna continue in the course that we went down
16:39 haphazardly, or whether not we're gonna now begin
16:42 to serve God in great sincerity.
16:44 But you know what friends?
16:45 Those decisions are not develop at that moment,
16:48 they are developed long before that moment.
16:51 The Hebrews decided before they got in the fire,
16:54 God can deliver us, but even if he doesn't,
16:56 we're gonna continue to serve Him anyway.
16:58 So what's the furnace of affliction?
17:00 The furnace of affliction is the place
17:02 where you begin to see who you are.
17:05 You begin to understand what your great need is
17:07 and you also begin to experience the power
17:10 of God to deliver you. Amen, very good.
17:14 John, I have a question here that it's in regard
17:17 to Revelation Chapter 19. Okay.
17:20 Verses 20 and 21 and they're just asking for
17:23 us to dialogue a little bit here to help clarify
17:26 some of the things that are going on.
17:28 I'll go ahead and read those. All right.
17:30 And then I will read another passage
17:32 from Revelation 20 that is very similar
17:34 and then we can share a few things about that.
17:37 It says in Revelation 19 verse 20,
17:41 and by the way just for context,
17:42 this is right on the heels of Christ's Second Coming.
17:46 So Christ returns,
17:47 if you look a few verses before that,
17:50 He returns as King of Kings and Lord of Lords,
17:52 He is called the Word of God.
17:55 Verse 13, and "out of His mouth
17:57 is a sharp sword, " verse 15.
17:59 "That He would strike the nations.
18:00 And He will rule them with a rod of iron."
18:03 Then it shows in verse 20 and 21 that here is what
18:07 happens to the beast and the false prophet
18:10 who were deceiving the people,
18:11 the inhabitants of the earth.
18:13 "Then the beast was captured,
18:15 and with him the false prophet
18:18 who worked signs in his presence,
18:20 by which he deceived those
18:22 who received the mark of the beast
18:24 and those who worshiped his image.
18:26 These two were cast alive into the lake of fire
18:29 burning with brimstone.
18:31 And the rest were killed with the sword
18:33 which proceeded from the mouth of Him
18:36 who sat on the horse.
18:37 And all the birds were filled with their flesh."
18:41 Now if you look in Chapter 20,
18:44 verse 10 it talks about the devil,
18:47 "who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire
18:50 and brimstone where the beast
18:52 and the false prophet are.
18:55 And they will be tormented
18:57 day and night forever and ever."
18:58 So it looks like, it appears like in Chapter 19
19:02 that the beast and the false prophet are thrown
19:04 into the lake of fire first.
19:06 Then the devil who also were part of that coalition,
19:11 the antichrist coalition. Right.
19:13 The false trinity were thrown in with them after that.
19:16 Now just a few thoughts on this.
19:19 First of all, Revelation 20 it says the beast was
19:22 captured and within the false prophet
19:24 who worked signs in his presence.
19:26 This is clearly identify the beast from the sea
19:29 and the beast from the earth,
19:30 it comes up out of the earth in Revelation Chapter 13.
19:33 We know that because the second beast,
19:36 the one that comes out of earth beginning in verse 11,
19:38 it says that he worked signs in the presence of the beast.
19:43 That is the beast that came before,
19:44 the one that rose up from the sea. Right.
19:46 So we know then that the beast and the false
19:48 prophet are the beast from the sea that arises
19:51 from the sea and the beast that arises from the earth.
19:54 Now the other beast we find,
19:57 actually the other person involved is the devil.
20:02 And it says in Chapter 16 verse 15,
20:07 that the devil is in coalition
20:12 with these other two powers.
20:16 In fact verse 14, verse 13,
20:18 I'm sorry I'm gonna backup,
20:19 verse 13 of Chapter 16 it says the,
20:21 "three unclean spirits like frogs coming up out
20:25 of the mouth of the dragon,
20:26 out of the mouth of the beast,
20:28 and out of the mouth of the false prophet.
20:31 Identify the beast and the false prophet,
20:33 the dragon we know from Chapter 12 is who? Satan.
20:37 The devil, Satan so.
20:38 You have all three appearing
20:39 in Chapter 19 verses 20 and 21
20:43 and Chapter 20 verse 10 all
20:46 ending up in the lake of fire.
20:49 But the question is, you know who not just
20:51 who are these entities, the question here talks about
20:54 these entities being the Church of Rome,
20:59 the first beast coming up out of the sea,
21:01 apostate Protestantism, which is the false
21:05 prophet that supports her.
21:08 They unite as a false system under Babylon.
21:13 But the question is you know
21:14 what is the timing of these things?
21:16 Because it sure seems like that the lake of fire
21:19 is there at the Second Coming to destroy
21:22 the beast and the false prophet.
21:25 Or the dragon or the devil is thrown into the same lake
21:30 of fire in the Third Coming of Christ in Chapter 20.
21:33 How do we resolve this?
21:34 Well, if they're asking for chronology of destruction,
21:36 the beauty of that is we have something
21:39 that encapsulates both of these descriptions
21:42 called the Battle of Armageddon.
21:44 The Battle of Armageddon is a progressive battle,
21:46 that the last act that would be the destruction
21:50 of all the powers of deception.
21:54 I often point out that Satan uses only two
21:56 tactics, deception and destruction.
21:58 So from the time he began his campaign
22:02 of destruction in heaven
22:04 he followed up by everything else,
22:06 everything else that followed that was
22:07 always in the cloak of deception.
22:09 So let's go ahead and get this,
22:10 John is giving you pictures here in
22:12 Revelation 19, the reason why John inserts that in
22:15 Revelation 19 is because Revelation 19 is about
22:17 the Second Coming of Christ.
22:19 Revelation 19 is about the Battle of Armageddon,
22:21 that actual war.
22:22 So when you look in Revelation 19
22:24 it's outlining rider on the white horse,
22:26 what is the result of the,
22:27 what is the result of Satan's army attacking
22:31 the angels of heaven and Christ?
22:34 What's the result?
22:35 They're gonna thrown in a lake of fire.
22:36 Then in Revelation 20 it shows,
22:38 when are they gonna thrown in the lake of fire.
22:40 Okay, I like your point, because the when isn't in 19,
22:44 the when is in 20. Exactly.
22:45 That the reason why it appears in 19 as it does.
22:48 End of the battle.
22:49 Is because, well the end of the battle,
22:51 but also you're talking about an event that is on
22:53 the heels of the seven last plagues. Exactly.
22:56 And the reason for the seven last plagues
22:57 is the destruction of the Babylon.
22:59 Okay, the punishment of Babylon,
23:02 those forces of the earth that are deceiving
23:05 the earth and causing them to be destroyed.
23:10 So what you have here in 19 is Jesus going after
23:14 those two powers on the earth that have been
23:17 established by the devil to deceive the world.
23:20 And we also know, here is one thing that's
23:21 interesting, John, we known that those
23:24 who receive the mark of the beast receive
23:25 it on their hand and where else?
23:29 In their forehead. That's right.
23:30 So they are those who acquiesce or join
23:34 in the propaganda and the teachings of the beast
23:39 and the false prophet.
23:41 And then there are those who simply go along
23:43 because they don't wanna to receive,
23:44 or they don't wanna be persecuted as God's
23:47 people are persecuted.
23:49 And it's interesting we find in verse 21,
23:50 "that the rest were killed with the sword
23:53 which proceeded from the mouth of Him
23:55 who sat on the horse."
23:56 They didn't believe the teachings of the beast
23:59 and the false prophet, but when Christ came back
24:02 He judged them by the sword which we know is
24:05 the word of God and they didn't believe that word
24:09 so they were judged in accordance with that.
24:10 I would suggest to you that the systems
24:14 and those that unite with it are destroyed in 20 and in 21
24:19 you are finding the rest of those who didn't
24:21 join but just went along
24:23 within their forehead and forearms.
24:25 They received the mark there were also killed. Right.
24:28 By Christ, by the sword that came out of his mouth.
24:29 So you see those two groups destroyed,
24:31 but the timing of that is in 20.
24:33 And I like the way you said that, John.
24:35 Yeah, and so, so the reason why 90 is put the way,
24:38 because that's the war.
24:39 A lot of people talk about let's see this battle.
24:41 In Revelation Chapter 19 let's see battle,
24:43 there is the battle going on in full array,
24:46 who are the two sides?
24:47 Christ on the white horse and all the angels
24:49 following him, His entire military,
24:51 then you have the Kings of the earth
24:53 and the reason why Revelation 16 is important.
24:55 The Kings of the earth, well,
24:56 how do they get gathered together?
24:58 By unclean spirits, so you have all these
25:01 components and you look at the word war in
25:04 Revelation is mentioned eight times.
25:05 From the first time it's introduced it talks about
25:08 the beast that ascends out of the bottomless pit wars,
25:11 see then you talk about Revelation that war
25:14 started in heaven, then he's gonna war against,
25:16 again against God's people.
25:17 So each aspect of that war is added onto the picture.
25:22 The other one he goes to war with them, why?
25:24 So the reason for the war is in Revelation 12:17.
25:29 The one who is appears to be mighty in the war is
25:34 introduced in Revelation Chapter 13.
25:35 Who is like the beast,
25:37 who was able to make war with them?
25:38 The question is answered later on.
25:41 In Revelation 19, who is able to make war with him?
25:44 Christ is able to make war with him.
25:46 So you begin look at the progression of it.
25:47 He will make war with the lamb,
25:49 but the lamb will overcome in Revelation 17.
25:52 So you see all the introductions of this war.
25:54 And in Revelation 19 shows the actual war,
25:58 in Revelation 20 shows the end
26:00 result of losing that battle.
26:03 You get thrown in the fire,
26:04 that's the end result of losing the battle.
26:06 The other thing here too is that,
26:07 I think the last one to be punished and that is
26:11 acknowledged at least or seen by all is the devil.
26:13 And so the timing of it all the lake of fire is
26:16 kindled, timing wise in 20.
26:19 We know the systems that he uses to support
26:22 the deception on this earth are destroyed
26:24 at the Second Coming of Christ.
26:26 So another reason for the separation of or at least
26:29 talking of the beast and the false prophet in 19
26:31 and then the devil in 20.
26:34 So I hope that answers a little bit of the
26:36 question at least to give some insight,
26:38 that are inside is to what's going on with
26:40 the lake of fire there and these three entities.
26:42 As a matter of fact I've just hit on that one,
26:46 the Lord talks about bringing forth a fire
26:48 from the midst of Lucifer.
26:51 And it would devour him in the presence of all
26:54 those who saw him.
26:56 And they would look at him and say they would say,
27:00 is this the one who caused the earth to tremble.
27:02 And then they will say, he will be no more forever.
27:07 So yes, thank you very much for that question.
27:10 Now do we wanna segue into our program now?
27:12 Yeah, let's do that.
27:13 Thank you so much for your questions,
27:15 we tried to do justice.
27:17 If you find that
27:19 we have fallen short in any particular way.
27:22 Call us, that is get in contact with us by
27:26 sending questions to our Internet address
27:29 housecalls@3abn.org that's housecalls@3abn.org
27:35 And once again,
27:37 thank you for your support of this program.
27:39 We enjoy what we do, and I think that makes
27:42 a difference and to have you know we have a two
27:45 cylinder car here,
27:46 but God is really the power behind this. That's right.
27:48 John and John both fueled by the presence
27:51 and power of the Holy Spirit.
27:53 So to God be the glory.
27:55 As we continue now in our unfolding
27:58 of why so many denominations?
28:00 John, lead us into this topic today.
28:02 Well, we finished in our last program I believe,
28:04 talking about the mother church or the church
28:09 that is the head of Babylon, as we keep on referring
28:12 to Revelation 12 and Revelation 17.
28:15 And then we're talking about today now as we
28:17 transition to other denominations,
28:19 we're talking about the daughters that are linked
28:21 or associated with the mother the mother church,
28:25 the mother harlot per se in Revelation 17.
28:29 And let me ask something before that. Go ahead.
28:31 I wanna put the context here,
28:32 because I know that people when they listen to this.
28:34 The words we say are,
28:36 the words we say can be very concentrated
28:39 in the interpretation of the hearer.
28:41 And so what we wanna make sure you understand today
28:44 is we're laying out facts,
28:46 we're not attacking people,
28:47 I think you mentioned that in one of our programs.
28:49 But it does well to before we handle any
28:53 of these particular denominations
28:56 or particular movements.
28:57 It's important to understand
28:58 that we're talking about the evolution
29:00 or in some cases, the revolution of Christianity.
29:05 How things have been in areas of conflict
29:10 and revolution during the dark ages.
29:11 But then after the dark ages
29:13 how they have evolved and why they exist today,
29:16 and how they got there?
29:17 So we're gonna talk about teachings that exist
29:19 today, the different faiths that embrace these
29:22 teachings, the ones that are supported by
29:24 scripture, but the ones that survived
29:27 the filtration of the Protestant Reformation.
29:32 And what I mean by that is,
29:33 and I think we're gonna mention this,
29:34 so I want to jump too far ahead of it,
29:36 but matter of fact, let me now jump ahead
29:38 of that, because you're gonna talk about some
29:39 of the things that survived the Protestant Reformation.
29:41 Well, I was simply gonna talk about that,
29:42 it's really important to get all the programs on
29:44 this to see the other ones that we've already done,
29:46 because it really establishes
29:47 already the first three. Right.
29:49 Establishes where we are today,
29:51 what we are saying today can be misunderstood,
29:53 if not understood in the context
29:55 of what we've already been talking about.
29:57 So we've lead people through
29:58 how the systems were developing.
30:00 We just talked about the beast and the false
30:02 prophet and we've said many times in other
30:05 programs that the Bible we believe is very clear
30:08 as to who those entities are. Right.
30:10 And so unless you have those that support that
30:13 background some of these words and some of the
30:15 things we're talking about can be wow!
30:17 You know I didn't know that,
30:18 where they get that from?
30:20 So anyway I appreciate that and we are talking
30:22 about systems here. Right.
30:24 Not people within the systems.
30:26 God says, Jesus says very, very clearly,
30:32 other sheep I have that are not of this fold,
30:34 that are of my people that I'm shepherding,
30:36 I must bring them so that there
30:39 will be one flock with one shepherd.
30:41 And of course we know Revelation says,
30:43 that there is a call out of Babylon.
30:46 That is Babylon being the mother Church
30:47 and the harlots that are following her teachings.
30:51 Come out of her my people,
30:53 there are people that are serving God in these groups.
30:56 But the teachings, the system itself is corrupt.
31:00 And so we don't make any bones about that,
31:03 we are pretty definitive on that statement.
31:06 That we believe that there are corrupt systems
31:08 of Christianity out here, that we identify in these,
31:12 in these programs.
31:14 Matter of fact,
31:15 to even build on that something that's really,
31:18 cleverly housed in this program is this.
31:22 There are still the Protestant Reformation
31:26 and there are still the reigning supreme authority
31:29 of the Roman Catholic Church at least in their own right.
31:32 That church, and that's why the ecumenical
31:36 movement is still happening today.
31:38 Trying to get them back under the reign of Rome,
31:40 but the Protestants, those who continue to be
31:44 Protestants are still maintaining sola
31:48 scriptura, the Bible and the Bible only.
31:51 That's really what we're saying here today,
31:53 is that if it doesn't come from the Bible,
31:55 then it's not sola scriptura and it doesn't
31:58 qualify to be a part of the Protestant Reformation. Yeah.
32:01 It literally links itself back to Catholicism.
32:04 So I, to give it back to John.
32:05 If it's not in the Bible if the belief that anyone
32:09 embraces is not supported by the scripture.
32:11 It has survived the filtration of the
32:14 Protestant Reformation and it still belongs to
32:16 the Mother Church. Right. Okay.
32:17 You're right, you know the other thing too is,
32:20 I was talking to a pastor friend of mine,
32:23 and I was actually talking directly to him,
32:27 we were in a group of pastors.
32:29 And I was, he was talking about,
32:31 he made the comment that really kind of,
32:33 it didn't surprised me,
32:34 but it was kind of shocking.
32:36 And I don't think he even realize
32:37 the important of this,
32:38 but the comment he made was, yeah,
32:40 we have a dear lady in our church that believes
32:44 that the Roman Catholic Church is the beast.
32:48 And I'm thinking he's a Lutheran pastor
32:52 and he clearly is not knowing what Martin Luther
32:55 believed about the Roman Catholic Church. Right.
32:59 Martin Luther to his dying day believed that
33:02 Rome was the beast.
33:04 The little horn power. Exactly.
33:07 The Protestant Reformers, others believed that the
33:10 Roman Catholic Church was the little horn power
33:13 and the beast power.
33:15 And so these things were say,
33:16 are saying right now, people find shocking
33:19 today, even other pastors of other churches find
33:21 shocking today and that's the reason
33:22 why what we say that Protestants
33:25 are no longer protesting. No.
33:27 They are ecumenical, they believe in the
33:31 ecumenical, the ecumenism that's happening,
33:33 the coming together again with the Roman church.
33:36 In fact this is one of the reasons
33:37 why you're seeing stories out there of Lutherans
33:40 and Catholics or Episcopalians
33:43 and Catholics, or Presbyterians
33:45 and Catholics coming together in dialogue
33:47 to join as one faith.
33:49 Right, and but they don't realize one is being
33:53 fished, one is the fisher. Right.
33:55 See the churches are being reeled in,
33:57 on being pulled back to Rome,
34:00 another point you made so wonderfully here is that
34:04 we have to remember that, it is important to
34:07 reiterated and to stress again
34:09 that the Bible is the sole authority. Yeah.
34:14 The Bible is the sole authority,
34:16 once you dismiss the authority of the Bible
34:18 and say well, our church has been doing this for
34:21 and you start mentioning how long,
34:23 it was established in the Council of Trent,
34:25 the Council of Nicea or the Council of whatever.
34:28 Once you start siting any source outside the Bible
34:30 for your scriptural, for your doctrinal support.
34:34 Then you lose the very platform
34:37 of the Protestant Reformation, sola scriptura.
34:39 It's one thing to say sola scriptura,
34:41 it's entirely another thing it's a whole
34:44 different picture to practice sola scriptura. That's right.
34:47 And so when we're saying the Bible and the Bible
34:49 alone we recognize that many others churches say
34:52 well, we believe in the Bible too.
34:54 We just interpret it differently.
34:55 The problem is in the way that they're interpreting it.
34:58 That's right, they are not using the Bible
35:00 to interpret itself.
35:01 And that's the key factor here,
35:03 when we talk about prophecy
35:04 and the Adventist Church is big on prophecy, it says no,
35:06 no prophecy is of any private interpretation,
35:09 that's huge, that's because we don't,
35:10 we can't give our opinion
35:11 as to what the prophecy is saying.
35:13 The Bible tells us, it interprets the symbols
35:16 and prophecy and then through those symbols
35:18 and those interpretations we can make conclusions
35:20 that are in harmony with the word of God. That's right.
35:22 But when you pick a doctrine and you pick
35:25 a passage and you say, oh here's what it teaches
35:27 you can say, it came from the word look I'm reading
35:30 this text, but the problem is you haven't
35:32 matched it up with fifty,
35:33 hundred other text is say the opposite. That's right.
35:36 That's not sola scriptura,
35:37 so this is what we believe and we think
35:40 Protestants still need to do,
35:42 protest errand teachings
35:44 from what people say is the word of God.
35:47 You know the big, the big call today
35:49 is we just need to let the past be the past,
35:53 let bygones be bygones.
35:56 One of the historical statements that I think
35:58 fits right here is, those who fail to learn from
36:01 the past will what?
36:02 Will repeat it. Right.
36:04 You see that is why history is so vitally
36:07 important, because the ecumenical movement
36:11 is siding all these non-biblical reasons
36:16 to join together.
36:18 And are deemphasizing the importance of the
36:20 scriptures, see so let's get together for
36:23 community help and for against famine,
36:25 against the ozone layer being depleted against.
36:28 You know natural disasters,
36:29 let's get together against abuse of women,
36:32 let's get together against molestation
36:34 of children, let's get together against you know
36:36 homosexuality and gay and lesbianism agenda.
36:38 They mentioned all these things to get together
36:40 against and is almost to say, forget the Bible,
36:43 I mean that's, let's unify on these good works
36:46 and that's why Jesus put in Matthew 7.
36:47 And this things are aren't necessarily bad things.
36:49 No, not at all.
36:51 But you can't dismiss the authority of the Bible
36:53 which is in fact the very road map to eternal life
36:56 and say these things take preeminent.
36:57 And the funny thing is that, it's not funny,
36:59 but I mean the crazy thing is that the Bible
37:02 and sola scriptura is what divided all the
37:04 churches from each other anyway. Right.
37:06 And now, if you're going to get rid of the
37:09 divisions what do you have get rid?
37:10 Get rid of the Bible.
37:11 You have to get rid of the Bible. That's right.
37:13 So there is clearly it's factual the Bible is
37:16 being minimalized as far as importance for rule
37:19 and faith and practice. That's right.
37:21 In order to come together,
37:22 that's what has to happen.
37:25 And so I don't know, this is what we're seeing,
37:28 this is why we believe strongly in House Calls
37:31 and what happens here on this program.
37:33 Because we believe there
37:34 is an accountability measures here.
37:35 In fact the text comes to me,
37:38 my people perish for what reason?
37:40 Lack of knowledge. For lack of knowledge,
37:42 where does that knowledge come from?
37:43 From the word of God. Word of God.
37:45 So when you're saying, let's you know let's let
37:48 bygones be bygones, let's just agree to come
37:50 together on what we agree on.
37:52 And not learn from the past,
37:55 what we're saying here is really I don't,
37:57 we don't intend to say it.
37:58 But we're saying that you know
38:00 knowledge isn't important.
38:02 And we believe that Bible knowledge is important,
38:04 we are living in the age of Bible illiteracy.
38:08 Especially, yeah, I'll just leave it at that.
38:12 Yeah Hosea 4:6, I think your book name is Hosea 4:6,
38:15 "My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge.
38:17 Because you have rejected knowledge." That's right.
38:22 Nowadays there are many Christians
38:24 who are fearful to get into
38:25 dialogue with other Christians.
38:27 I don't want to talk about doctrine,
38:28 you know that's divisive.
38:29 Yeah, now we're gonna talk about one of those
38:30 nondenominational movements too.
38:32 Because they emphasize, we don't teach doctrines,
38:35 we just teach the Bible. Duh!
38:38 One is not separated from the other,
38:40 didn't mean to say duh,
38:41 but it's kind a like light came on.
38:43 The doctrines that you believe are anything
38:45 you teach from the Bible is the formation of teachings,
38:48 which is in fact another word for doctrines.
38:50 So go ahead, John, talk about power for today.
38:52 Now we're transitioning and again we don't have
38:55 a lot of time left in the program.
38:56 We're transitioning to different denominations
38:59 and we're seeing these denominations as you said,
39:05 the filtering process of the Reformation. Right.
39:08 These came out of the Protestant Reformation,
39:10 but here is one of the key factors
39:11 and here is what we wanna say up front here.
39:13 As these Protestant denominations came about,
39:19 that usually emphasizes specific aspect
39:21 of protesting against Rome. Right.
39:24 But they didn't continue to protest
39:26 in all aspects of Rome. Right.
39:28 And so to this very day what God intends us to do
39:32 is to continue to protest on the authority
39:34 of scripture against Rome.
39:35 Many now are reversing the process
39:37 and that is coming to us
39:39 it's a result of what's called
39:41 the counter reformation.
39:43 There is a counter reformation at work
39:44 to undo what the Protestant Reformers did.
39:47 And the teaching we're finding in the church
39:50 don't continue to protest against errand teachings
39:53 that are brought forth by Rome,
39:55 are clearly being established
39:57 and are held to within these churches. Right.
40:00 And today in the program today,
40:02 we're gonna start with the Baptist Church. Okay. Okay.
40:06 And so in each one of these and we're not gonna
40:08 cover all them by no means,
40:09 but we're gonna cover the major ones,
40:10 we're gonna see certain aspects of these churches
40:13 that are good and certain aspects of these
40:15 churches, the teachings within these churches
40:17 that haven't completely reformed in the protest,
40:21 protesting Protestant movement
40:23 to protest against Rome.
40:25 And what are some of the common teachings
40:27 that are embraced?
40:28 Well, many of the distinct beliefs
40:31 of the Baptist Church that are in harmony with scripture
40:34 we find are personal accountability to God.
40:37 You know, we are not saved through the beliefs
40:40 of parents, or the beliefs of family
40:42 associations, or the beliefs of maybe
40:45 a connection to a pastor in the church or something.
40:47 We all have a personal accountability to God.
40:50 And one of those accountabilities is that
40:52 we have a freedom of conscience as well to act
40:56 on the accountability that we have. Right.
40:59 So that's very important, because what they were
41:02 protesting there in Rome about was the Rome was
41:04 certain that you must believe as we the church
41:06 tells you to believe.
41:08 Baptist said no,
41:10 we are personally accountable to God.
41:12 We believe by our own conscious and the reading
41:14 of scripture what we believe given to us by God. Right.
41:18 And we appreciate that about the Baptist Church.
41:21 And closely tied to that is the Scripture alone
41:24 is the rule of faith and practice.
41:26 So sola scriptura one of the champion teachings
41:31 of the Baptist Church as it first came out,
41:33 it first began to protest against Rome.
41:36 And I'll mention here too,
41:38 there are so many different Baptist congregations.
41:42 One of the reasons for that is they have a
41:44 congregational structure which is a very
41:45 independent localized church by church structure.
41:49 So there are individual churches that believe
41:52 a little differently than another Baptist church.
41:54 So you'll find that through the churches,
41:56 a difference of doctrine.
42:00 There is also an another entire line of Baptist
42:04 churches that come out of the anti-Baptist.
42:05 So just the Seventh-day Baptist that aren't out
42:08 of the line of the, or are in line with the
42:10 Southern Baptist convention or even
42:12 the Free Will Baptist, which are really kind of down,
42:16 they recognize their line coming from John Smith,
42:18 out of the 1600s the early 1600s.
42:21 So there are other pieces of the Baptist Church
42:23 but in general.
42:24 The first Baptist and second Baptist--
42:26 Yes, just goes on.
42:27 But in general these are the teachings of many of them.
42:31 And another one is scripture alone
42:34 as a rule of faith and practice.
42:36 Sola scriptura, I think we mentioned today.
42:39 Just salvation by grace through faith.
42:41 One of the embraced teachings that is so true
42:45 and this is something that we share in common
42:47 with the Baptist Church is salvation
42:49 by grace through faith alone. Sola fide.
42:52 Sola fide You're right, sola fide.
42:55 Justification by grace through faith alone,
42:57 we cannot be justified by any action on our part.
43:00 However after being justified our actions are
43:05 a testament to our connection to Christ.
43:08 So, we're not saved by the works,
43:10 but the works testify whether or not in other words,
43:12 I'm not hired because I did a great job
43:15 but after I get hired I need to do a great job. Right.
43:19 You see, so that's the whole key,
43:21 the qualifications of the Christian is solely based
43:23 on the merits of Christ and that's wonderful.
43:26 Scripture alone as a rule of faith and practice,
43:29 sola scriptura, first and foremost doctrine.
43:33 Nice that is an extremely important
43:36 and that is emphasized orally.
43:39 You know, that's we believe in the Bible
43:41 and the Bible only, but I made a point a moment ago
43:43 and we're gonna see when we get to the point
43:45 where some of these teachings of divergent,
43:47 how some of these things that are embraced by some
43:51 of the Baptist not necessarily all of them
43:53 have survived the filtration
43:55 of the Protestant Reformation. Yeah.
43:57 Another one held in common is the God head.
43:59 The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.
44:02 Don't have to say very much about that,
44:03 but they believe in you know the supremacy
44:06 of the God head, they are the Son, the Father,
44:09 and the Holy Spirit.
44:11 No challenge there at all.
44:14 And many Baptists believe
44:17 in the separation of church and state.
44:18 It's a strong, they are strong promoters
44:21 of religious freedom.
44:22 But you have others that say that,
44:26 this is once again, where the channels
44:28 sometimes gets colored gray.
44:30 Where some say, well, you know we should have
44:33 control of politics because politics was born
44:36 in the heart of our founding fathers
44:38 who are all Christians.
44:40 See, so you have that side of it.
44:42 However when you go down your list of beliefs when
44:45 you go through the Chronicles.
44:46 And there are some other things you wanna
44:47 emphasize before, before I go the next phase.
44:50 But when you go to the Chronicles,
44:51 you begin to see,
44:52 if it's in the Bible I could supported,
44:54 if it's not in the Bible,
44:55 I should begin to search and find where the Bible
44:58 clarifies something that may be
45:00 skewed in my understanding.
45:01 Right, right, very good.
45:03 You know, a couple of other things just briefly
45:05 they also rejected Calvin's view of predestination.
45:08 Praise the Lord.
45:09 So that was, that's very good,
45:11 that's in line with scripture we agree with that.
45:14 They also recognize that the offices
45:16 of the church, but most significantly pastors
45:19 and deacons, the work of pastors
45:21 and deacons in churches.
45:23 But again there is a divergence in some
45:26 respects depending upon the Baptist congregation
45:28 you see today.
45:29 And that's mainly because of their independence,
45:34 very much their autonomy
45:36 within each church on a local basis.
45:39 But then now, what we've seen as John several
45:43 hundred years of the Baptist church being
45:47 Congregationalist in structure.
45:48 We are finding that there are movements that have
45:52 come about in Christianity at large
45:54 that have come into the Church.
45:56 That have actually caused
45:57 them to move away from Sola scriptura.
45:59 And we find it are highly problematic
46:01 and the reason we bring up Baptist is because it's
46:03 one of the largest Protestant denominations today.
46:08 But these few teachings that they have,
46:11 that we find on a widely type basis are very
46:15 problematic because they directly
46:17 connect to end time events.
46:21 And when I say end time events,
46:23 I believe they're deliberate in intending
46:26 at least the devil I believe is deliberate
46:28 in intending these to mislead people and to not
46:32 seeing some very important truths,
46:34 such as the resurrection,
46:36 such as the Second Coming of Jesus,
46:39 such as even salvation and accountability to God.
46:44 Of course the issue of Sunday that connects all
46:47 of these churches that we're talking about to Rome still.
46:51 They haven't reformed or at lest protested
46:54 on that issue most of them.
46:56 If not well, most all them,
46:59 and so here are a few things,
47:02 so let's go though a few of these, John,
47:03 we don't have a lot of time left.
47:04 But number one, one of the things that keeps
47:07 coming up over and over again is the secret rapture.
47:09 Oh yeah. That's true.
47:13 Figure rapture, that theory was not prevalent
47:16 when Baptist first began
47:19 to form in the early 17th century.
47:22 You what amazing about that, John,
47:24 is Tim LaHaye who was one of the foremost recent
47:28 writers of the books left behind,
47:30 which was a fictional account of the secret rapture.
47:34 Which doesn't have any basis in the Bible at all.
47:37 He is a strong critic of Catholicism,
47:40 out of which the very belief he embraces came--
47:44 From Catholicism.
47:46 Right, through Francisco Ribera, a Roman Jesuit,
47:50 so this is kind of a sword
47:52 that swings around and cuts him.
47:53 You know he criticizes, I think there was a book in
47:57 1973 called illustrated and made plain,
48:01 he stated that the Catholics is,
48:02 "more dangerous than no religion,
48:05 because she substitutes religion for truth."
48:08 That's a direct quote. Right.
48:09 From his book and, but at the same time the very
48:13 thing that he has told with fervency came out of the,
48:17 out of the Roman Catholics attempt to hide
48:20 the truth about the who the forth beast
48:23 of Revelation, forth beast of Daniel was--
48:26 To undo the Protestant Reformation and the kind
48:28 of Reformation he is going along with that.
48:31 So he says they have, they have substituted
48:34 religion for truth and he has accepted something
48:37 that's a part of that substitute.
48:39 Yeah. Isn't that ironic? It is.
48:41 And so he teaches in the 16 book series,
48:43 a 13 book series
48:45 which sold upwards of a 100 million copies,
48:48 of the secret rapture that was
48:50 formulated by Rome specifically to push the,
48:53 to push this secret rapture that doesn't
48:56 exist, way down to a single man in the distant future.
48:59 Yeah, and it completely undoes the resurrection
49:03 in connection with the Second Coming of Jesus,
49:05 that is literal, audible, visible.
49:09 You know one of the things, John, I don't, I,
49:11 we can't forget to mention is the reason
49:14 why the Baptist church formed at least initially,
49:17 was it's protest against Rome
49:19 for the way it was baptizing.
49:21 It was Baptizing by sprinkling
49:22 and the Baptist saw that immersion was the only
49:25 teaching in Scripture for baptism.
49:27 And so that's where the word Baptist comes from. Baptisio.
49:31 Yes, and so very much they saw problems with Rome,
49:37 but now and this is, I bring this up,
49:39 this is the perfect example.
49:41 Now we're seeing those in the church adopting
49:44 a teaching that is from Rome
49:45 that they didn't have before. True.
49:47 So, we have a ecumenical thing happening here with
49:51 the teachings as well as maybe dialogue or hope,
49:56 at least from the Mother Church Rome,
49:58 to bring all Protestants back into her fold.
50:01 But there is a teachings issue here going on
50:03 and it's not just a secret rapture and we're gonna
50:06 try to get into each one of these individually.
50:08 But here's another one immortality of the soul,
50:10 right, regularly taught, prevalently taught--
50:14 And for those who may have heard that phrase one
50:16 time that means the soul survives death.
50:20 Doesn't it I, it goes on and goes straight
50:21 to heaven and exists.
50:23 And not supported by the Bible today.
50:24 Yes, number three, I have written down here eternal
50:28 torment for the wicked, fire and brimstone preachers.
50:31 You know he used to bring you know, you know,
50:33 burn in hell if you don't accept Christ almost as a
50:36 motive, you know thinking someone will be motivated
50:38 by fear to accept God in the right way.
50:40 But, I mean, they're known for having some
50:43 good fire and brimstone preachers,
50:45 but it comes out of those that teaching that there
50:48 will be eternal torment as a result for the
50:50 wicked not accepting Christ.
50:51 That's right, let me make a statement on that very
50:53 thing, because you know some people say that
50:55 Adventist don't believe in hell.
50:56 Yes, we do we believe in hell that's hotter than
50:59 what most Christians believe in. That's right.
51:01 Because if you believe in continually being
51:04 tormented throughout eternity,
51:05 the fires of hell are not able to destroy this,
51:07 the person who was being tormented.
51:09 We believe in the fact that the Bible says,
51:11 "the day shall come
51:13 that shall burn asan oven, " Malachi 4.
51:15 "The day that is coming shall burn as an oven,
51:18 ye all the proud and all who do wickedly shall be
51:22 stubble for they shall be ashes
51:25 under the soles of your feet." Right.
51:27 Psalms 37, I believe it's verse 10,
51:29 the wicked shall be consumed into smoke shall
51:32 they consume away.
51:33 So, we are not "annihilation" is that
51:37 the term that's often use you an annihilationist.
51:38 No, we believe the Bible says that the person who
51:41 is, who does not have eternal life
51:44 cannot burn eternally.
51:45 So, how can you be tormented eternally
51:48 without receiving eternal life?
51:50 Yeah, it makes it kind of a torture,
51:51 keeping you alive, giving you eternal life in hell,
51:53 keeping you alive to punish you forever.
51:56 Where God is just, his character is completely
51:59 opposite of that in scripture,
52:00 throughout consistently.
52:01 And what is often not thought about is,
52:03 is Satan gonna be around forever and the answer is
52:06 no, he is going to be destroyed. Yes.
52:08 So why would the culprit be destroyed
52:11 but the victims be tormented endlessly.
52:13 The other thing too is we know that this is coming
52:15 about by the immortality of the soul. Exactly.
52:18 If you're saying well, the body will be ashes
52:19 of your feet but the soul will live on forever,
52:22 but then you're missing other text such as
52:23 twenty-five layman
52:24 "they will be as though they had never been."
52:26 That means they will no longer exist. Right.
52:30 Anyway the consistency of the Scriptures in that it
52:33 does not teach eternal torment for the wicked.
52:35 Here's another one, "once saved always saved."
52:38 That's conveyable Christianity,
52:40 that's not daily sanctification. Yeah.
52:42 That's the problem with that, it's like okay,
52:46 you're on the fast track, you can't get off.
52:48 What if at one point in your choice,
52:51 in your daily process of making choices.
52:52 Now, we're not saying save loss, save loss,
52:54 save loss, save loss, but there are some people
52:56 that in the course of time Jesus used the
52:59 example in scripture, he says,
53:00 speaking of his disciples he says,
53:04 some have walked away from us never
53:08 to walk with us again.
53:10 And Peter said, looking at that question,
53:14 Jesus looked at Peter and says,
53:16 are you also gonna forsake me?
53:17 And then he said to whom shall we go? You see.
53:21 It's also, Paul said, it's possible to renew
53:25 one who has tasted of the good fruit and have
53:27 walked away from it. That's right.
53:29 To renew them again to repentance,
53:30 which means they're in an unrepentant, unsafe state.
53:33 That's where iniquity comes in,
53:34 that's where the unpardonable sin comes in.
53:37 Rejecting Christ, that's the statement of Jesus,
53:40 He that shall endure unto the end will be saved.
53:44 The big, the big hole in Christianity is they have
53:47 justification accepting Jesus but often
53:49 sanctification is left out. Totally.
53:52 And then right to glorification,
53:53 so justification or glorification,
53:55 forget the daily walk with Christ,
53:56 you can't just do what you wanna do
53:58 and be saved anyway.
53:59 That's why there is so much immorality brimming over,
54:02 that's why there is so much departing from
54:04 living right and people still believing they're
54:06 living wrong still bring salvation. Yeah, yeah.
54:10 And it's, it's tough because we're constantly
54:13 seeking and having these questions,
54:15 seeking to undo these, these teachings that are,
54:19 are so opposed to many of the plain
54:21 scriptures of God's word.
54:22 So, that's why we're bringing these up.
54:24 Sunday sacredness, of course we mentioned that.
54:27 Here's one, Law of God no longer obligatory,
54:30 of course that's tied to the Sabbath issue and
54:32 it's the reason why they eliminate or take out any
54:35 obligation to keep the law of God. Right.
54:38 The law of God is something that he never,
54:40 I mean it's a command, it's not a suggestion
54:44 as we say, these are 10 suggestions. No.
54:46 And they wouldn't say this about any of the nine.
54:48 You know, can I murder, can I lie, can I kill,
54:51 can I steal, can I worship false Gods,
54:53 can I take God's name in vain?
54:55 They said no, no, no, of course not.
54:57 But can I change the Sabbath to Sunday
55:00 and honor that day, instead of the day God set up?
55:03 Oh yes, that's okay, because that's not,
55:05 it's not obligatory, the law of God is not obligatory.
55:07 It's just, it's like speaking out of two sides
55:10 of your mouth, it doesn't work.
55:13 Reverend Hitchcock and I'm using the phrase
55:15 Reverend, because that's the phrase,
55:16 that's the way he's referred to,
55:18 the one who wrote the Baptist manual.
55:20 In his own word says, there has never been
55:23 and you cannot find anywhere in the scripture a single
55:26 solitary line sanctioning the observance of Sunday.
55:30 It has no scriptural authority.
55:33 So if you read, if you read the Baptist manual
55:35 and look at the statement that is made about
55:38 Sabbath versus Sunday, you will see the writer
55:41 of that manual says that no,
55:43 there is no scriptural authority
55:45 for the observance of first day of the week not at all.
55:48 Yeah, and then if we go
55:49 of course to the Mother Church,
55:50 the church of Rome it says,
55:52 well of course not, we established the day.
55:53 And by virtue of our authority at the church
55:57 on earth we have the God given authority to change
56:02 the day from Saturday to Sunday.
56:04 And you know that God given authority is even
56:05 questionable, because, even questionable,
56:08 because Jesus said in Daniel seven they will
56:10 think to change times and laws.
56:12 That means you thought you changed it.
56:14 They intend to do it, but.
56:15 They intended, but you can't do it because the
56:16 times have been established by God,
56:19 I can no more get rid of the 24 hour day,
56:21 then I can get rid of the seven day week,
56:24 then I can get rid of any of the laws of God.
56:26 You really can't do that.
56:28 So it's very important, it's a very good topic,
56:29 John, I appreciate you putting
56:31 the work together for this one.
56:32 Yeah, and we're gonna take about some others
56:34 and that have very much in common with Baptist,
56:38 other Protestant denominations that clearly,
56:42 we're actually sharing this because we
56:44 want to, to at least challenge them,
56:47 to go back to the scriptures,
56:48 to become sola scriptura.
56:51 To use the Bible
56:52 and the Bible only for our rule of faith
56:55 and practice as Christians today.
56:57 And that's something that's lacking in our world today.
56:59 A lot of people want to get involved in the
57:01 atmosphere of religion rather than getting back
57:03 into the foundation of religion.
57:05 If you think about what started this movement
57:07 it is the very thing that's going to end it.
57:09 Jesus said, in Matthew 4:4,
57:11 "Man shall not live by bread alone, but--"
57:14 "By every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God."
57:17 Whatever happened to the good old good book,
57:20 it's in digital form,
57:21 it can be found on the Internet,
57:22 it's in so many places.
57:23 But the place that it can be best
57:25 used is when it's in our heart.
57:28 May God bless you, put the word of God
57:29 in your heart, until we see you again,
57:31 have a great day walking with Christ.


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Revised 2014-12-17