House Calls

Hell, Pt. 1

Three Angels Broadcasting Network

Program transcript

Participants: John Lomacang (Host), James Rafferty

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Series Code: HCL

Program Code: HCL120011


00:01 Hello, friends, grab your Bible and a friend
00:03 and sit back as we explore God's word together
00:05 on this edition of "House Calls."
00:22 Welcome to the best Bible program
00:25 for this hour anywhere in the world.
00:27 If we didn't believe that we wouldn't really be here.
00:29 And so today you have James and John.
00:31 Once again the sons of thunder.
00:32 Good to have you here, James. Good to be here, John.
00:34 I tell you, we are coming to you live
00:36 from 3ABN here in West Frankfort, Illinois.
00:40 We have our Bibles, hope you have yours.
00:42 Get your pens, get your family members seated.
00:45 If you're watching this at church
00:46 or wherever you may be, sit down for the next hour
00:49 as we walk together through the word of God.
00:51 A time that is going to be filled with blessings
00:54 because we're gonna invite the spirit of God
00:55 to be here with us.
00:57 And I'm so glad that James is joining me today.
01:00 We did some programs in the past together.
01:03 And I think the chemistry is very good.
01:06 And so praise the Lord that, you know your Bible.
01:07 That's the biggest part about it.
01:09 That's the neat thing, isn't it?
01:10 And we also know the Lord,
01:12 but before we do anything today,
01:13 I'd like to have you have our prayer. Amen.
01:14 Before we go, before the people
01:16 with our questions and our Bible.
01:18 Amen. Let's pray.
01:19 Father, we're just thankful for another opportunity
01:21 to open Your word and to share with those
01:24 who are listening, the viewers,
01:26 the beautiful message of truth that You've given us there.
01:29 We prize it above all of our earthly possessions.
01:32 And we pray that as those who are listening join us
01:35 as we open Your word, as we move
01:37 through these passages, these texts,
01:38 that our hearts will be knit again together with You
01:41 and that each one will be drawn closer
01:44 in their personal relationship with the Lord Jesus Christ.
01:47 Be with us to this end.
01:48 Send Your spirit to guide and direct and to speak to us,
01:51 we pray in Jesus name, amen. Amen. Thank you.
01:55 Now for those of you who have Bible questions,
01:59 you know, that this part of the program is significant
02:01 because we always begin with your Bible questions
02:04 that you send so faithfully.
02:05 And thank you for sending them.
02:07 But if there's something we say today
02:08 or something that's in your mind right now
02:11 that you want to email to us you can do
02:12 so by sending an email to housecalls@3abn.org.
02:16 That's housecalls@3abn.org.
02:19 And we take advantage of modern technology.
02:21 But if you're at some place where
02:23 you have no internet connection
02:24 and you prefer sending a mail,
02:26 send that to P.O. Box 220,
02:28 West Frankfort, Illinois, 62896.
02:31 Attention House Calls and we'll get that information.
02:34 And hopefully we'll be able to cover it
02:36 on the topics that come up.
02:38 And if you don't hear about yours now, be patient.
02:41 We'll cover that in the future.
02:42 But we'll be given some questions today.
02:44 What do you have for us, James?
02:45 Well, the first question that comes in
02:47 from a listener and they are asking.
02:50 "At the first resurrection will the unsaved
02:53 who are living at that time be destroyed,
02:55 sent to their graves until the second resurrection?
02:58 During the 1,000 year reign with our Lord in heaven
03:01 will there be any humans living on the earth?
03:04 And that is a really good question. Wow.
03:06 The first section of scripture
03:08 that I think about in relation to this question
03:10 is Revelation Chapter 20.
03:13 Revelation Chapter 20
03:14 is one of the last chapters in the Book of Revelation.
03:17 Revelation 22 is the last chapter.
03:19 So almost at the very end of the Bible
03:22 you're going to find Revelation Chapter 20.
03:25 And the whole chapter deals
03:27 with this question and goes beyond that.
03:29 So we're not going to look at every verse
03:31 in Revelation Chapter 20.
03:33 But we're going to look here at just a couple of verses
03:36 that I think will really help us to understand
03:38 what takes place when Jesus returns.
03:42 John says in Revelation Chapter 20
03:44 and we're going to begin here with verse 4.
03:49 "And I saw thrones." Well, verse 3, excuse me.
03:53 Well, we better start with verse 1.
03:55 I hate to do that. Let's do it.
03:56 Look at the context. Exactly.
03:58 "And I saw an angel come down from heaven,
03:59 having the key to the bottomless pit
04:01 and a great chain in his hand.
04:02 And he laid hold upon the dragon,
04:04 that old serpent, which is the Devil,
04:06 and Satan, and bound him a thousand years.
04:09 And he cast him into the bottomless pit
04:11 and shut him up and set a seal upon him
04:13 that he should deceive the nations no more
04:15 till the thousand years should be fulfilled.
04:17 And after that he must be loosed a little season.
04:21 And I saw thrones and they that sat upon them.
04:23 And judgment was given unto them.
04:25 And I saw the souls of them that were beheaded
04:27 for the witness of Jesus and for the word of God
04:29 which had not worshipped the beast,
04:31 neither his image, neither received his mark
04:32 upon their foreheads, or in their hands,
04:35 and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
04:39 But the rest of the dead lived not again
04:42 until the thousand years were finished.
04:44 This is the first resurrection.
04:47 Blessed and holy is he that has part in the first resurrection.
04:50 On such the second death has no power,
04:53 but they shall be priests of God and of Christ
04:56 and shall reign with him a thousand years."
04:59 And final verse, "When the thousand years are expired,
05:03 Satan shall be loosed out of his prison."
05:06 Actually verse 8, "And shall go out to deceive the nations
05:08 which are in the four quarters of the earth,
05:10 Gog and Magog and gather them together to the battle,
05:13 the number of whom is as the sand of the sea."
05:16 Now an outline here, just a brief outline.
05:19 The thousand years begins at the second coming of Jesus.
05:22 We know that.
05:23 When Jesus returns, the wicked are destroyed
05:26 by the brightness of His coming.
05:27 2 Thessalonians Chapter 2 tells us that.
05:29 And that is what it's been described here
05:31 briefly in Revelation Chapter 20.
05:33 The focus of Revelation 20 is the first resurrection.
05:36 The first resurrection-- those who have part
05:38 in the first resurrection and they are those
05:40 who believe in Christ.
05:42 Many of them were beheaded or martyred for Christ.
05:45 They are going to reign with Christ for a thousand years.
05:49 Satan on the other hand is,
05:51 we're told, is put in a prison so to speak.
05:54 It's not a literal prison.
05:55 Bars, chains, can't hold the demons.
05:58 We are clearly told that in the gospels
06:01 there were demons who where held with bars and chains,
06:03 and they just broke them.
06:04 But this is a prison of circumstance. That's right.
06:07 There's nobody in this world that he can tempt
06:10 because all of the faithful,
06:13 the righteous have been resurrected and gone to heaven.
06:15 And all of the wicked have been destroyed
06:17 by the brightness of the second coming of Jesus.
06:19 So to answer the question, it says here,
06:21 during the thousand year reign with our Lord in heaven
06:23 will there be any humans living on the earth?
06:25 No. There will be no humans.
06:27 Satan will be on this earth
06:29 but there will be no humans living on this earth.
06:32 At the first resurrection the unsaved are slain,
06:35 destroyed, sent to their graves
06:37 until the second resurrection.
06:39 And the righteous are taken to heaven
06:40 to reign with Christ for a thousand years.
06:44 Very simple and to the point. It is.
06:46 And one of the things that we want to point out
06:48 and add to that is, when the Lord comes back
06:51 the wicked are not looking forward to seeing the Lord.
06:55 Now we don't think of a lamb as a vicious beast.
06:59 I mean I haven't heard of people
07:00 that have been rushed to emergency
07:03 because they've been, you know,
07:05 viciously attacked by a lamb.
07:07 But it's amazing the reaction that is talked about
07:10 in Revelation Chapter 6.
07:11 When Jesus is coming, those who have chosen
07:14 not to prepare to meet Him in peace,
07:19 they think of Him in a different light all together.
07:22 Now one writer-- not one writer--
07:26 one preacher--matter of fact, Elder C.D. Brooks said,
07:30 "The sun hardens clay but it also melts butter."
07:35 So-- I like that.
07:36 You know, it is not the son of man is not Christ
07:42 that makes the situation difficult.
07:44 It's the condition of the heart.
07:46 Those who are looking forward to Christ coming,
07:49 they are-- their hearts are soft.
07:51 They are like the melted butter.
07:53 You know, they're just waiting for Christ to come.
07:54 But those who have rejected Him,
07:56 they're like the hard clay.
07:58 The appearance of Christ hardens their hearts
08:00 even more against His second coming.
08:03 And thus you find a phrase in Revelation Chapter 6,
08:07 and we're looking here at verse 15.
08:12 Actually look at verse 14 and then we go on to verse 17.
08:17 And it says here in Revelation Chapter 6.
08:20 "Then the sky receded as a scroll when it is rolled up
08:25 and every mountain and island was moved out of its place.
08:29 And the kings of the earth, the great men,
08:31 the rich men, the commanders,
08:33 the mighty men, every slave, and every free man,
08:37 hid themselves in the caves
08:39 and in the rocks of the mountains.
08:41 And said to the mountains and rocks,
08:43 fall on us and hide us from the face of Him
08:47 who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb.
08:50 For the great day of His wrath has come
08:54 and who is able to stand?"
08:56 And when you think of that,
08:59 the righteous are not running away from Christ.
09:01 As a matter of fact, I like the way
09:03 that Ellen White explains in "The Great Controversy."
09:05 You know, the righteous
09:06 were hiding in caves for their safety.
09:09 Now they almost past each other in flight.
09:11 Now the wicked want to hide from Christ in His appearing.
09:15 The righteous were hidden in the caves, in the dens,
09:18 and the mountains, from persecution
09:20 but now it's time for them to come out.
09:22 And the wicked are now wanting to change places
09:24 because the appearance of Christ is coming.
09:27 And so you find that these two groups
09:30 don't meet Christ in peace at all.
09:34 Was the question-- there's a second portion
09:36 of that question about whether or not they're going to be--
09:38 whether they're not going to be buried?
09:40 What was that they--
09:41 Yeah, during the thousand year reign with our Lord in heaven,
09:45 Are there any human beings living on the earth?
09:47 Okay, let's look at Jeremiah 25:33.
09:51 Jeremiah 25:33.
09:54 You know one of the things that's not gonna happen
09:56 during the thousand years
09:57 is there are not going to be any funerals.
10:01 We think about that.
10:04 There going to be many, many slain.
10:05 And as you made the reference about 2 Thessalonians.
10:08 The wicked are going to be slain and destroyed
10:10 by the brightness of the coming of the Lord.
10:11 So what's going to happen during that thousand years?
10:14 What condition is the world going to be in?
10:18 We've heard of, you know, nuclear attacks.
10:22 We've heard the atrocious condition of the holocaust
10:27 and what happened then.
10:28 But this is a condition that is not caused by God
10:32 but those who are affected by this choose--
10:38 and when I say choose,
10:39 there are very few people right now
10:41 that are living sinful life that say,
10:44 "You know, I really want to be destroyed when Jesus comes."
10:47 For some reason people think
10:48 that they're gonna be able to avoid that
10:50 or it's not going to be as bad as Christians say
10:53 it's going to be.
10:54 But read Jeremiah 25:33 for us there in
10:58 and this talks about the condition of the world
11:01 when the Lord comes.
11:04 It says in Jeremiah 25:33,
11:07 "The slain of the Lord shall be at that day
11:09 from one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth.
11:13 They shall not be lamented, neither gathered, nor buried.
11:17 They shall be dung upon the ground."
11:19 That's right. Like refuse.
11:20 They're just gonna be all over the ground.
11:22 And so when you think about that,
11:23 well, what's gonna be happening?
11:25 These are those as the Bible talks about,
11:27 the first resurrection has already taken place.
11:29 There has been a resurrection to life.
11:33 But there is a second resurrection yet to take place.
11:35 And I don't know if you've addressed that.
11:37 We talked about that briefly in Revelation Chapter 20. Yes.
11:40 So that second resurrection is a resurrection of condemnation
11:43 which is going to happen
11:45 during the latter when the thousand years end.
11:48 So this is the group that's gonna be affected.
11:50 They're going to be laying all over the ground
11:52 and I would say, after a thousand years.
11:54 You know, this text is true.
11:56 They will be like dung on the ground.
11:57 They're going to just lay there and decay and refuse.
12:01 And at the end of that thousand years
12:03 the Lord is going to allow them
12:04 to come back to life as a great army.
12:06 The Bible says, "As the sands of the sea,"
12:09 to face the final judgment that will be meted out.
12:13 You know, you make a good point there, John.
12:15 And I think the verse brings it out
12:17 not directly but indirectly.
12:19 They are not going to be buried.
12:21 They are not going to be lamented. Why?
12:23 I mean, even if they weren't lamented,
12:25 let's just say, that the-- No mourning exactly.
12:27 Yes, no mourning.
12:29 Let's just say that there's no one
12:31 that really cares about them enough to mourn over them.
12:34 But why wouldn't they at least be buried?
12:36 Because to have corpses laying out
12:38 would cause all kinds of disease and, you know,
12:44 terrible, you know, conditions in the earth.
12:46 So why wouldn't anyone at least bury these corpses?
12:50 Because-- go ahead.
12:53 Well, you've posed the question.
12:54 You want me to answer that?
12:55 You answer. Okay.
12:57 Because you are either one of those corpse
12:59 or you're in heaven.
13:01 Yeah, there's nobody on the earth.
13:02 There's no third category.
13:03 There's nobody there to bury them.
13:05 There's nobody there to lament them.
13:06 So this verse clearly indicates along with the other verses
13:09 we've read that there's nobody alive on the earth
13:13 after the second coming of Jesus Christ.
13:15 Now the reason why this is so important
13:16 is because there are many Christians,
13:18 honest Christians, Bible believing Christians,
13:21 but not necessarily Bible students, students of the Bible,
13:25 who believe that the thousand years
13:27 is going to be a thousand years of peace on this earth.
13:30 That there's going to be maybe a secret rapture of the church.
13:33 And that certain Christians are going to go to heaven
13:36 but others are gonna have a second chance.
13:38 And after the Antichrist has reigned for 7 years
13:41 or 3 and half years, etcetera,
13:43 there will be these thousand years
13:45 in which we can turn to the Lord, etcetera
13:46 and they're gonna be people on the earth
13:48 during the thousand years.
13:49 The Bible doesn't teach that.
13:51 The Bible does not teach that at all.
13:53 The Bible teaches very clearly what's going to happen
13:55 at the beginning of the thousand years.
13:57 And in the Old Testament,
13:59 looking forward to the end of time,
14:01 as well as in the New Testament
14:03 which confirms the Old Testament,
14:04 the Bible is very clear that during the thousand years,
14:06 no one is buried and no one is lamented.
14:09 Nobody is mourned over because
14:11 there are no people on the earth.
14:13 The wicked are all slain
14:14 and the righteous are all taken to heaven.
14:16 That's right. There is no one here to say,
14:20 "Wow, what do we do with all these bodies?"
14:22 There is no funeral home to say,
14:23 "Well, we'd like to make funeral arrangements,"
14:25 because even the funeral director himself
14:27 will either be among the saved or among the lost.
14:30 No third category. Amen.
14:32 And so that's why John 5:28 and 29 is so significant.
14:36 "Do not marvel at this or marvel not at this for the hour
14:38 is coming in the which all that are in the graves
14:41 will hear His voice and come forth.
14:43 They that have done good, unto the resurrection of life,
14:46 they that have done evil unto the resurrection
14:48 of damnation or condemnation."
14:50 Only two categories and so it would be whose
14:52 all of us to be in one of those two categories
14:55 because what a sad situation
14:57 that's going to be to look at that and think,
15:00 I could have been in one of these categories.
15:02 And that's one of the reasons why Matthew, Mark, Luke, John,
15:08 speaks of this weeping and wailing
15:11 and gnashing of teeth.
15:13 It's an agony, an indescribable agony of those who said,
15:17 "Do you mean that what I have rejected
15:20 has actually been true?"
15:23 You know the opportunities
15:24 I've had similar to the day of the flood.
15:27 When the doors were closed
15:28 there was no entrance for anyone.
15:31 And as it was in the days of Noah, sadly enough,
15:34 Matthew says, "So also will it be in the days
15:36 of the coming of the Son of Man." Amen.
15:38 And only two categories.
15:40 Revelation 22:12,
15:42 "The righteous, he that is righteous
15:44 let him be righteous, he that is filthy,"
15:46 you have the holy and you have the unjust.
15:49 So, you know, it makes sense-- great answer to the question.
15:53 But the question is which category
15:55 are you planning to be in?
15:56 That's the real question.
15:58 Wow. That's a deep one there.
16:01 Now this as the topic is really one that's kind of timely.
16:05 A lot of issues have risen in the media, in politics.
16:10 It's not a new issue. It's one that's really old.
16:14 But it brings out a point that lets us see how far--
16:20 how far things-- and I'm being general right now
16:22 until I read the question.
16:24 It shows you the breakdown in morality in our world
16:28 which is not new to us.
16:29 But it shows the extent of its permeation,
16:33 how far its tentacles have reached.
16:36 This is an amazing question.
16:38 One person says, "I work for a church that says
16:41 homosexuality is not sinful
16:43 and has an openly gay music minister.
16:47 The pastor also says that God of all religions is the same one.
16:53 I used to think this was okay,
16:56 but I've learned from the Bible and Holy Spirit
16:59 that this is an apostate church.
17:02 What should I do?
17:03 I'm a recently single and cannot afford--"
17:09 okay, they have been recently single in other words
17:11 and they cannot afford to quit.
17:13 That is they don't want to quit church.
17:14 What do you recommend that they do?
17:17 You know this is a strong topic.
17:20 One of the first things I want to say here about this topic is,
17:24 you know, James, this is one of those sensitive topics
17:28 where we have to separate
17:29 the sin from the sinner. Absolutely.
17:31 A lot of times people have seen Christians as--
17:34 and it is sad but I've seen picketing signs
17:37 where people have held up signs,
17:39 God hates homosexuals. God hates gays. God hates fags.
17:42 This horrible insensitive statements.
17:46 We can hold up signs and say,
17:47 God hates murderers. God hates thieves.
17:51 God hates liars. God hates adulterers.
17:53 God hates adulterers. God doesn't hate anyone. Right.
17:56 He loves the sinner but He hates the sin.
18:00 And so often Christians have been
18:02 put into that loveless category
18:05 where we come across in a judgmental way.
18:07 And that's why the church has become a place
18:09 now where you have the pendulum swing almost to the other side
18:14 where somebody who may have been gay
18:16 or lesbian or homosexual
18:18 or whatever the preference is, decides, okay,
18:20 well, since I'm not accepted in the regular Christian church,
18:22 I'm gonna open my own. And everybody is accepted there.
18:26 Well, it's synonymous to opening a church
18:28 for where everybody is thieves.
18:32 I like the point you're making here, John.
18:33 This is such a powerful point
18:36 because we have specialized-- Right.
18:38 The category of homosexuality,
18:39 because we put it in its own special category. Right.
18:43 Now we're going to the other extreme.
18:45 And if we would have recognized
18:47 from the beginning, as Christians,
18:49 that homosexuality is no different than any--
18:51 than maybe in a liar. It's no different.
18:54 God has identified in His word
18:57 what sin is and that identification
18:59 comes through the word of God
19:01 and through the law of God especially.
19:04 The law of God does not say,
19:06 "Honor your father and your father
19:08 or honor your mother and your mother."
19:09 The law of God says, "Honor your father and your mother."
19:12 But the law of God also says,
19:13 "Thou shall not steal. Thou shall not kill."
19:16 To put homosexuality outside
19:19 the category of sin is one extreme.
19:22 To put homosexuality in a separate category
19:25 of sin is another extreme. That's right.
19:27 So we're all sinners saved by grace.
19:28 God loves each one of us.
19:30 God loves the homosexuals as much as He loves me,
19:31 as much as He loves John,
19:33 as much He loves anyone of us. That's right.
19:34 We've fallen short of the glory of God
19:36 and this is a very important point.
19:38 Revelation 21:8, as a matter of fact--
19:41 and to answer the question for the person,
19:43 what should you do?
19:45 You should seek a church
19:46 that stands strongly on the Bible principle
19:48 that all sin is-- Yes.
19:50 What Jesus came to save us from. Amen.
19:53 "He shall save His people from their sin," Matthew 1:21.
19:56 Not to save us in our sin.
19:58 Jesus didn't come to make sin comfortable to us.
20:00 He came to show us the ignominious
20:05 magnitude of the sinfulness of sin.
20:08 So He hasn't said, "Well, you know,
20:10 since this is something that you guys really like,
20:14 let's go and open a church for it."
20:15 So we can open a church for extortioners.
20:17 We can open a church for sorcerers.
20:19 We can open a church for witchcraft.
20:21 We can-- and Satan has done so.
20:23 You know the church of Satan--
20:25 I lived in California where Anton LaVey,
20:27 the high priest of the church of Satan.
20:29 Marilyn Manson, one of the priests
20:31 of the church of Satan.
20:32 So those who want to worship demons and witches and,
20:36 you know, spirits, they open their own church.
20:39 And we see that in Revelation 18.
20:42 It talks about where Babylon,
20:44 this entire corrupt system of worship
20:46 has become the cage of every foul spirit
20:49 and unclean and hateful bird.
20:52 So we see that evil spirits will exist
20:54 in places called churches.
20:56 But Revelation 21:8, I want to show you
21:00 how the Lord puts these all together in one category.
21:03 And we are talking about the second death.
21:04 So this is the reason I chose this passage.
21:07 Read Revelation 21:8.
21:08 Revelation 21:8 says,
21:10 "But the fearful and the unbelieving
21:12 and the abominable and murderers
21:15 and whoremongers and sorcerers
21:17 and idolaters and all liars
21:20 shall have their part in the lake
21:21 which burns with fire and brimstone,
21:24 which is the second death."
21:26 And the word there, "whoremongers"
21:27 is the broader word in the Greek,
21:29 "sexually immoral."
21:31 So sexual immorality, for person wh's gay
21:36 and lesbian and transgender and bisexual
21:38 is no different from a guy who's an adulterer.
21:41 Exactly right, fornicator.
21:42 Or fornicator, is all sexual immorality.
21:45 Anything outside of the marriage vow,
21:46 the marriage relationship, according to the Bible.
21:50 And this one here Paul the apostle,
21:52 1 Corinthians 5:9,
21:54 I want to look at that one here.
21:57 1 Corinthians 5:9.
21:58 So if your pastor says there's nothing wrong with it
22:00 then he's deleted quite a bit of his Bible which nowadays,
22:04 James, is not an odd thing. It's not at all.
22:06 Lot of people say, well, Paul had an issue. No.
22:08 Paul was under the inspiration
22:10 of God just like anyone else.
22:12 But 1 Corinthians 5:9,
22:15 you know, I'm borrowing Pastor C.A.'s glasses today.
22:18 So for those of you who watch and say,
22:19 "Hey, he's got new glasses."
22:21 These glasses belong to Pastor C.A. Murray, for the record.
22:26 I drove up in here and said,
22:27 "My glasses, I left them at home."
22:29 And I live so far away, a mile--
22:31 They look good, John. They look good, really.
22:32 I tell you, it's a new statement.
22:35 Here we are, 1 Corinthians 5:9.
22:38 Matter of fact, this chapter is delivery from fornication.
22:42 Deliver the fornicator for discipline.
22:45 Look what it says here,
22:47 "I wrote to you in my epistle" and this is old.
22:51 This is a long time ago Paul wrote this letter.
22:53 He's writing this to the Corinthians
22:54 but it applies to us today.
22:56 He says, "I wrote to you in my epistle,
22:59 not to keep company with sexually immoral people.
23:03 Yet I certainly did not mean
23:07 with the sexually immoral people of this world
23:10 or with the covetous or extortioners or idolaters
23:14 since then you would need to go out of the world.
23:20 But now I have written to you
23:22 not to keep company with anyone named a brother
23:26 who is a fornicator or covetous or an idolater
23:31 or a reveler or a drunkard or an extortioner,
23:35 not even to eat with such a person.
23:37 For what have I to do with judging
23:39 those also who are outside?
23:42 Do you not judge those who are inside?"
23:45 Now just very quickly, this is an amazing text here.
23:48 It really is and clearly misunderstood.
23:50 The reason why Paul is saying here,
23:52 he says, I'm not telling you not to talk to people
23:56 that are outside of the household of faith
23:59 because maybe you need to reach them.
24:01 But he said, what is really troubling me
24:03 is these sins are now also in the household of faith.
24:07 Yes. And if you got a brother who's sexually immoral,
24:10 an extortioner, a liar, a fornicator,
24:12 covetous, idolater, don't keep company with him
24:16 because we know-- evil habits corrupt--
24:22 How does that phrase go?
24:25 Evil habits corrupt good manners--
24:27 Good manners.
24:28 In other words one bad apple spoils the whole bunch. Yes.
24:31 Let's go ahead and put it in the context of that cliché.
24:33 So he's in essence saying,
24:34 if this is in the house of God, be careful.
24:37 Don't keep company with those
24:39 who are in the household of faith
24:42 and are practicing this kind of sin.
24:43 John, these verses are so powerful
24:46 because Paul here is speaking to the church in Corinth.
24:50 He's speaking to the church body.
24:52 He's speaking to the organization here.
24:55 He's not speaking to individuals.
24:57 He's speaking to the organized church.
24:58 And he's saying to the organized church--
25:00 and this is the question that we're dealing with.
25:03 He's saying to the organized church,
25:04 "Listen, I don't want you to go out of the world.
25:06 I don't want you to stop fellowshipping with
25:09 and individually connecting with people in the world,
25:12 but as a body do not bring into fellowship,
25:15 do not bring into membership,
25:16 people who have chosen to live that lifestyle. Right.
25:19 You can have them in the church
25:21 but don't make them music leader.
25:22 You can have them in the church but don't make them deacons.
25:24 You can connect with these people
25:26 and reach out to these people.
25:27 We need to. Jesus did. That's right.
25:29 And Jesus told us, when you discipline
25:31 someone in the church
25:33 consider them a heathen or publican.
25:35 How do we consider heathens and publicans?
25:37 We reach out to them. We pray for them.
25:39 We witness to them. We help them.
25:42 But we don't take them into the church
25:43 and give them leadership roles.
25:45 We don't take them into the church
25:46 and give them membership. Right.
25:48 Because we are calling them to accept Christ as their Savior
25:51 and we are calling them to experience the freedom from sin
25:54 that God gives to us in the gospel.
25:56 And so Paul here is talking about a person that has come in,
26:00 accepted Christ and now backs him back into the world.
26:02 And he's saying, "Listen, he needs to be disciplined."
26:04 That's right. You need to take him out of the church body.
26:07 As a body you should not have him
26:09 in this position of membership
26:11 and in this position of leadership
26:12 if he had any position of leadership.
26:14 But I don't mean to tell you
26:15 that you should have nothing to do with him
26:17 in an individual redemptive sense.
26:20 Right. You see.
26:21 And so it's so powerful to understand this in that context
26:24 because later on in 2 Corinthians--
26:26 we are in 1 Corinthians. That's right.
26:28 Where you have all the rebukes.
26:29 In 2 Corinthians Paul says,
26:31 "I think you don't want to overdo with this guy."
26:34 He's talking about the same person. That's right.
26:35 "I don't want you to overdo with this guy
26:37 because I don't want you to cause them too much sorrow.
26:39 I don't want them to be too overwhelmed."
26:40 Because what happens many times when someone backslides
26:44 is they feel overwhelmed at a certain point
26:47 when the church disciplines him and that's what it's for.
26:49 Church discipline is a good thing.
26:51 But they can feel overwhelmed and come to the point
26:53 where they feel like God's given up on them.
26:54 And we never want to lead
26:56 someone to come to that conclusion.
26:57 Yeah, matter of fact, Jesus says,
26:59 "The smoking flax I will not quench,
27:00 nor a bruised reed I will not break." Amen, amen.
27:02 There are those who have been dealt with in a disciplinary way
27:06 and they are still weak in so many ways.
27:09 Fledglings as it were just about ready to give up
27:12 and about to lose their faith
27:14 and you don't want to just keep hammering away.
27:17 But you hope in a redemptive sense
27:19 that enough time has passed
27:21 and enough work has gone on with them
27:23 that they understand the error of their way.
27:25 And so in a nutshell, you know, we are living in a day and age
27:28 where the Bible says, "As it was in the days of Sodom,
27:32 it's gonna be the very same way just before Jesus comes."
27:34 And we're living in a time--
27:35 Sodom was a city where men went after men,
27:39 where women were with women.
27:41 And when Paul outlines this in Romans Chapter 1,
27:44 the sin of sodomy was what brought down
27:46 the cities of the plains, Sodom and Gomorrah.
27:48 And so today we have this
27:51 explosion of same sex issues.
27:57 It's among the teenagers. It's experimental.
28:00 They have songs that are conditioning
28:02 children, teenagers. There's a song--
28:04 and because I did a series
28:06 called "Unclean Spirits" about the cult
28:08 in the music industry or entertainment industry.
28:10 There's a song that lot of young people--
28:12 young girls are just humming as they go along.
28:14 And one famous music artist,
28:16 a female at that has written a song,
28:19 "I kissed a girl and I liked it."
28:21 And that's the theme. And I was going through
28:25 putting research and materials together
28:27 and I thought-- and you look at the song,
28:29 very high up on the charts, very popular,
28:31 at least I don't know where it stands now.
28:32 But it was very popular at the time
28:34 it came out, not too long ago.
28:36 But I kissed a girl and I liked it
28:38 and then you follow these leads
28:40 just to see where this is all headed.
28:41 And young people now-a-days are saying,
28:44 "Well, its okay to experiment.
28:45 It doesn't mean I'm gay.
28:46 It doesn't mean I'm bisexual, you know.
28:48 It's okay for a guy to experiment with a guy
28:49 just to see, you know, if that's something I like."
28:52 But you see this is sin.
28:54 They have opened the door and you sow the wind.
28:59 And you reap the whirlwind.
29:00 You cannot go down the path of darkness
29:02 and not expect to be heading in the wrong direction.
29:05 And it's very clear, John,
29:07 you know, when you read the Bible,
29:08 sometimes where people will say,
29:10 "Well, there isn't a lot in there about homosexuality."
29:12 Oh, man. Nevertheless I'd like to--to say this.
29:16 Nevertheless, there's nothing there to help us to recognize
29:20 that homosexuality was like fornication,
29:23 was like adultery, was like lying,
29:26 was like stealing. It is a sin.
29:28 And the reason why you might say--
29:30 well, the reason why there isn't a lot in there
29:32 about homosexuality is because God's not against it.
29:34 No. The reason why there's not a lot in there
29:36 is because it is an obvious sin
29:40 that God didn't need to elaborate on.
29:42 If God is talking against fornication which--
29:45 John, look at the world today.
29:46 We know that, you know, who knows?
29:49 50% of people are living together
29:51 instead of getting married. I don't know.
29:52 That's another one. But the levels are--
29:54 but that is an obvious clear sin.
29:56 And so what we're saying here, friends,
29:57 is not that God is against homosexuals,
30:00 anymore than He's against any other sin in the Bible.
30:04 But God is clearly establishing standard that we don't meet.
30:08 None of us meet that standard, whether we're in an homosexual--
30:12 homosexuality is our difficulty or fornication
30:15 or lying or stealing, none of us meet that standard.
30:17 But we have a Savior. His name is Jesus Christ.
30:19 That's right. And His grace is sufficient for us.
30:23 He can give us the grace and the strength that we need.
30:26 We don't need to compromise our church standards.
30:27 We don't need to compromise the gospel of Jesus Christ.
30:30 God loves all people.
30:32 And God can help and heal all of us from whatever inherited
30:35 or cultivated tendency to sin we have.
30:37 That's right. I'm so glad you point that out.
30:40 There's some people today that say, "Don't pray for me
30:43 'cause I don't have a problem. I don't wanna be--
30:47 This is not a phase I'm going through.
30:48 This is not a lifestyle."
30:50 This is just-- and the other one's--
30:52 and I'm not completely opposed to the idea
30:54 that people saying-- just hear me out carefully.
30:57 Don't edit the tape right here.
30:59 Some people say, "Well, how can you say
31:01 there's something wrong with that?
31:02 I was born this way." We are all born in sin. Yes.
31:09 But we don't have to cultivate sin.
31:12 There are those born in families that are predisposed to alcohol.
31:14 That's me. That's me.
31:16 Alcoholic father, mother, grandmother.
31:18 I mean, I was drinking alcohol having blackouts
31:21 when I was a teenager. Okay.
31:23 And I know that I cannot go near that.
31:24 I know that I cannot touch that.
31:26 So I have that genetic disposition.
31:27 Wow, I didn't know that.
31:29 I'm genetically inclined that way.
31:30 But God has given me victory.
31:31 If you put a glass of alcohol before me today,
31:33 now 28 years ago it would have been a temptation.
31:36 My roommates tempted me in that way.
31:38 But today you put and there's no temptation.
31:40 It's not even a temptation to me. Why?
31:43 Because God has-- by His grace,
31:45 He has made my weak point,
31:46 my genetically inherited weak point, my strongest point.
31:49 And He can do that with any one of us. That's right.
31:51 If we give our hearts and our lives to Him on a daily basis.
31:53 That is right.
31:55 So the predisposition is there for many things
31:57 depending on environmental situations,
32:00 hereditary situations, babies that are born,
32:03 you know, with low tolerance to certain drugs
32:06 because they are drug babies.
32:07 And then they are those who are born to families
32:09 that were thieves all their lives.
32:11 You know, generation of thieves.
32:13 You've heard the phrase "The Gypsies."
32:15 Not to say that all Gypsies are bad people,
32:17 but somebody was recently pickpocketed in France.
32:22 And they said, "Oh, the Gypsies just look for tourist
32:25 because they know how to pickpocket.
32:26 They practice this. So they are thieves.
32:28 So when you look at the Bible and you begin to say,
32:30 "Well, which sin is more debasing than the other?"
32:33 The one, the only thing
32:35 that gives this sin of homosexuality--
32:42 let me rephrase that.
32:44 One of the things that the sin of homosexuality does,
32:47 it changes the image of God in the human race.
32:51 When you read Genesis,
32:52 one of the things that God did was,
32:54 He made male and female in the image of God.
32:57 Created He them, male and female,
33:01 He created them.
33:03 So when man and woman is joined together,
33:04 they complete the image of God in the human race.
33:09 If we decided from this point on,
33:10 men will be with men and women will be with women,
33:13 what will happen with procreation? Plummet.
33:16 What will happen with the image of God?
33:18 Completely distorted.
33:20 And that was really what brought down--
33:22 when you read Romans 1,
33:23 that was really the reason why God gave them up. Yes.
33:26 He says in verse 26 Romans 1.
33:28 "For this reason God gave them up to vile passions."
33:32 "For even their women," Romans 1:26.
33:34 "Even their women exchanged the natural use
33:38 for what is against nature.
33:40 Likewise also men, "Verse 27.
33:42 "Leaving the natural use of the woman,
33:46 burned in their lust for one another, men with men,
33:48 committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves
33:52 the penalty of their error which was due.
33:54 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge,
33:59 God gave them over to a debased mind,
34:01 to do those things which are not fitting.
34:04 Being filled with all unrighteousness,
34:06 sexual immorality, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness."
34:10 Notice how all these things other sins being added to that.
34:12 Yes, very good point.
34:13 Not separating these out. Right.
34:14 God is saying, "They've been immoral sexually
34:17 one with another, same sex."
34:19 But that was not a separate sin. No.
34:21 Whisperers. Yes.
34:22 All of these. He had gossip.
34:24 All of the sins that we think are acceptable in "society."
34:29 Right. And then we have this other sin, homosexuality,
34:32 which is for years has not been acceptable in society
34:35 and God is saying, it's all the same.
34:36 He puts them all in the same category.
34:38 Envy, whisperers, evil-minded, vile, and proud.
34:42 You say to a person, "Pride is just a--"
34:44 say it again. "isn't just about appearance."
34:47 Ain't that amazing? So when you think
34:49 about this issue of homosexuality,
34:50 just to wind up that question section here.
34:53 Sin is sin. Jesus came to save us from sin.
34:57 And He can save anybody,
34:58 but just don't be fooled into thinking
35:00 that you could be a part of a church
35:01 and under the leadership of the pastor
35:03 who will lead you down that road and say, "He's a man of God."
35:06 I would say, 2 Corinthians 11:13 and 14
35:14 brings that out that for such a false apostles,
35:19 deceitful workers transforming
35:21 themselves into apostles of Christ.
35:24 These are ministers, but these are false apostles,
35:28 but they look like ministers.
35:30 And the Bible says, "For no marvel,
35:32 for Satan himself also appears as an angel of the light."
35:36 And, you know, we say this, John,
35:37 because we recognize, for example,
35:39 that there are a lot of churches that have imbibed "sin."
35:45 When we look at the Ten Commandments
35:46 for example, we're looking at commandment number 4.
35:50 "Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy.
35:52 And there are a lot of churches who don't remember
35:53 the Sabbath day to keep it holy.
35:55 They don't remember that the seventh-day is the Sabbath.
35:57 And they don't remember how that is kept holy.
36:00 So we need to be careful not to follow churches necessarily.
36:04 Not to follow ministers necessarily
36:06 because their example is gonna continue in that path.
36:09 We must follow the word of God.
36:11 We must make the Bible our refuge and our strength.
36:14 We must make the word of God our leader
36:16 and our counselor and follow what God says.
36:19 And believe that He has the grace
36:20 that is sufficient for us.
36:22 That's right. Thank you, James.
36:23 And I hope we answered the question.
36:25 We've spent a little time on that
36:26 just to let you know it's important.
36:28 And we serve a great Savior. Amen.
36:32 Well, if you have any Bible questions
36:34 that will come to mind because of may be something
36:36 we said today or maybe questions that you have
36:38 that have not yet been answered,
36:39 you can send those questions to housecalls@3abn.org.
36:43 That's housecalls@3abn.org.
36:45 And if anybody asks you
36:47 about a balanced Bible program, remember this one.
36:50 Also sometimes you'll see James on Book of the Books,
36:53 another very good program that's held by 3ABN.
36:55 And sometimes you'll see
36:57 James Rafferty and Ty Gibson together.
36:59 And I recommend also wonderful Bible students
37:02 as they partner together in sharing the word of God.
37:04 But this is a network that believes in the undiluted
37:07 Three Angels' Messages,
37:08 one that will counteract the counterfeit.
37:11 And thank you for all you do to keep this nation,
37:13 to keep this station and this network strong.
37:16 Amen. That's the good one, station network.
37:18 If you put that together as nation.
37:20 That's a good one. Accidental, but--
37:22 I got that. Well, lead us into our topic today.
37:24 We're gonna be talking about something.
37:25 There was a text in Luke. Yes.
37:28 We're gonna be talking about the topic of hell today.
37:30 And some people say, the devil is in charge of hell.
37:33 He's gonna be rotissering people throughout eternity.
37:36 We don't believe that.
37:37 But we are gonna address this issue
37:39 what the Bible says about hell
37:40 and what it doesn't say about hell.
37:42 And it comes to us really through a question.
37:43 And I really appreciate the program that we're doing
37:46 because it's based on a lot of the questions that come in
37:48 that you have about these Bible topics.
37:51 And this question comes in--
37:52 actually it's more of a statement,
37:54 not really a question. Dear, John and John.
37:56 Well, I'm James, but, of course, you understand.
37:58 If there is no hell then what is this? Please read on.
38:03 Luke 16:22, 23, 27, and 28.
38:07 "The rich man also died and was buried.
38:09 And being in torments in Hades,
38:11 he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham afar off,
38:14 and Lazarus in his bosom.
38:16 Then he said, 'I beg you, therefore, Father,
38:19 that you would send him to my father's house,
38:21 for I have five brothers that he may testify to them,
38:24 lest they also come to this place of torment.'"
38:27 It is the story, the parable if you will,
38:30 John, of a rich man and Lazarus.
38:32 This story is found in Luke Chapter 16
38:36 and it begins in verse 19
38:38 and goes all the way to verse 31. That's right.
38:41 Our questioner has just sent in a couple of those verses,
38:43 of course, to summarize the point
38:45 that he is making and that is, if there is no hell
38:48 then how does the story of the rich man and Lazarus
38:51 fit in to the biblical teaching on this subject?
38:55 Well, you know, just to begin out--
38:57 begin with the catapulting statement.
38:59 There is hell. Okay.
39:01 But there is not a now existing hell
39:04 in the sense of the story of Lazarus.
39:07 Very good point. Very good point.
39:08 I think it's a great place to start.
39:11 Seventh-day Adventist, this program and every program
39:14 you see on this station believes that there's a place
39:18 called hell, that there is an experience of hell,
39:20 that hell is a biblical reality and a biblical truth.
39:23 That's right. But the nature of that reality,
39:26 the nature of that truth is what we're discussing right now.
39:29 Many Christians believe it's an eternally
39:31 burning place of torment that is run by Satan.
39:34 And you're thrown in there and Satan is there
39:37 tormenting you endlessly for all eternity.
39:40 We do not believe in that picture of hell.
39:42 Why? Because it's not biblical. That's right.
39:45 As a matter of fact, one of the reasons why--
39:47 let's--before we deal with the story directly
39:49 and I think that this-- we have the time that
39:51 is allotted to us to deal with this we could spend it
39:54 on this parable and branch out
39:56 to the various scriptures in the Bible.
39:58 One of the things that people don't really take into account
40:00 is the fact that Satan is not gonna be around forever.
40:04 When you look at Ezekiel 28. Let's go to Ezekiel 28.
40:07 And we're gonna come back
40:09 and build on the branches of what these--
40:10 what are these symbols that are present in the story all about?
40:14 But in the Book of Ezekiel, one of the things that--
40:18 oh, my God--one of the things that's so significant
40:20 to the story of the end of Satan's life is that he made
40:25 these many claims and that-- but when you look
40:29 at Ezekiel Chapter 28 and through the parable
40:32 of the Prince of Tyre, the Lord speaks of the end of Satan.
40:39 Yeah, the anointed cherub, verse 14.
40:41 The one that was in Eden, verse 13.
40:43 This is a parable that is speaking of Lucifer.
40:49 And when you look at verse 18 and 19,
40:50 it says, "You defiled your sanctuaries
40:52 by the multitude of your iniquities.
40:54 By the iniquity of your trading. Therefore, speaking of his end.
40:58 "I brought forth fire from your midst. It devoured you.
41:03 And I turned you to ashes upon the earth
41:05 in the sight of all who saw you.
41:08 All who knew you among the peoples are astonished at you.
41:12 You have become a horror and shall be no more forever."
41:16 And it's interesting because the way
41:19 that is written in the King James is, "I will do this."
41:22 Exactly. Now we know in the context of this,
41:24 we're talking about the King of Tyrus. Right.
41:25 We're also talking about Lucifer.
41:27 And so the King James is picking up that idea.
41:30 I will do this to you.
41:31 Lucifer is going to come to an end.
41:33 That's right. And so you see if--
41:36 if he is going to be ashes
41:38 and he is gonna be no more forever,
41:41 then the natural conclusion,
41:44 before we even get into the actual parable itself,
41:47 is that the place called hell and one of the weaknesses,
41:49 James, of the English language is the fact
41:52 that it does not adequately translate the Greek and Hebrew.
41:55 We have one word, "hell." And we think, "Okay, wow.
41:59 What does that actually mean?"
42:01 Well, the grave is spoken of as hell. Yes.
42:04 You have Old Testament, where Sheol over and over
42:06 and over and over and over again, hell.
42:09 But then you have Hades. This--
42:10 that's the word used in this parable, the place of burning.
42:13 You have Gehenna, the lake of fire.
42:15 But you also have Tartarus,
42:16 that singular place that appears in 1 Peter,
42:19 I believe Chapter 4 where it talks about
42:22 where the spirit world, where the angels
42:25 that sinned were cast down and delivered in chains of darkness
42:29 reserved unto judgment, reserved for the Day of Judgment.
42:33 1 Peter 2. 1 Peter Chapter 2.
42:35 1 Peter 4:17 I was thinking of,
42:37 judgment beginning at the house of God.
42:38 So you find clearly that hell has many meanings
42:43 in its original language. But the weakness of it is--
42:46 so let's break this apart.
42:49 We do have a hell today, that's existing now, the grave.
42:53 The grave and that is a biblical truth.
42:56 And, John, I really like this because Ezekiel 28
42:59 also connects to Malachi.
43:01 Malachi 4:3 tells us that it's not only the devil,
43:05 Lucifer, who we brought to nothing,
43:08 brought to ashes, who will be no more.
43:10 But it is also the lost, the wicked.
43:12 It says that, "You will tread down the wicked
43:15 for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet
43:17 in the day that I do this," says the Lord.
43:19 And I, you know, some people will say,
43:21 "Oh, you know, what? Well, God is a merciful God.
43:24 And the Bible clearly teaches, friends,
43:26 that nobody is going to suffer
43:27 for all eternity for the sins of a lifetime.
43:30 Can you imagine the mischaracterization of God
43:34 in relating to this kind of idea,
43:36 this kind of theology,
43:38 that a person lives for three score and ten,
43:41 commit sins, never turns to Jesus as their Savior
43:44 and God causes them to be tormented
43:47 and suffer for eternity for the life of three score and ten.
43:51 I mean, that is just a complete misrepresentation
43:53 of the character and the heart of God.
43:57 The Bible is very clear that there's
43:58 going to be an end to Lucifer.
43:59 There's going to be an end of the wicked,
44:01 that they're gonna be burned up. That's right.
44:02 And they will not suffer endlessly and infinitely
44:06 on and on and on forever and ever and ever
44:08 which brings us to another phrase
44:09 and that is forever and ever and ever which we've got
44:11 to get to that at some point too.
44:13 And when you think of the-- Jesus said,
44:14 "I am the wine. You are the branches."
44:17 When you read, since you're in Malachi,
44:19 read verse 1, Malachi 4:1.
44:21 I'm going back to Malachi--
44:23 Okay, okay. I left that.
44:24 Okay, well, I could-- oh, got it.
44:26 "For, behold, the day comes,
44:28 that shall burn as an oven, and all the proud,
44:31 yeah, all that do wickedly, shall be stubble,
44:34 and that day that comes shall burn them up,
44:36 says the Lord of hosts, and shall leave them
44:38 neither root nor branch."
44:40 Okay, so Jesus says,
44:41 "I am the wine, you are the branches."
44:43 Now the branches are, in this parable,
44:45 are those who chose to follow Satan. The root is Satan.
44:52 So if the root is going to be destroyed,
44:56 how will the tree exist without roots?
44:59 Well, impossible. It cannot.
45:01 So there's no-- this parable in the--
45:04 this is truly a parable.
45:05 And if we break this parable down,
45:07 let's look at the language in the parable
45:08 that shows that it, in fact, is a parable.
45:11 Now Jesus taught many things.
45:13 He used some of the teachings of the day
45:16 to communicate a particular truth.
45:19 And this parable, in particular,
45:21 is a message to the Jewish leaders.
45:24 In fact, they continually rejected Christ
45:29 even up to this point, they rejected many--
45:32 in many cases, the messages of Moses.
45:36 They rejected the messages of the prophets.
45:38 And when you find even later on after Stephen is stoned,
45:42 when Stephen is stoned, he reiterates this
45:45 entire history of the children of Israel
45:47 or the leadership of Israel.
45:48 And he says, "How many prophets have the Lord
45:52 sent to you that you have not stoned?" Yes.
45:56 And so when you look at this parable--
45:58 let's go through it bit by bit.
46:00 You begin to see the kind of language
46:01 that is clearly a message.
46:03 And what's so amazing as you go on further,
46:06 you'll see that it was so clear in the--
46:08 even in the parable since it was so clear
46:10 that the Jews perceived he was talking to them.
46:12 Yeah. And it's interesting, John.
46:14 First of all, we know that this is a parable,
46:17 it's the fifth of a line of parables--That's right.
46:20 That Jesus has given here in order.
46:23 So--and a parable is different in nature
46:26 than the plain reading of scripture.
46:29 A parable is very much like prophesy.
46:31 It's symbolic. It has symbols.
46:33 We can't take it literally.
46:34 For example, if you look up the word Lazarus
46:37 in the original Greek, you're going to find
46:38 that there are two-- the two people,
46:42 two persons with the name of Lazarus in the Bible.
46:46 One is the real Lazarus, that's the person
46:48 that Jesus loved who died and he resurrected.
46:51 The other one is identified as an imaginary person.
46:53 That's right. So when you look up the Greek,
46:55 you'll find that this is-- this right here,
46:57 this Lazarus is an imaginary person.
46:59 He's part of a story.
47:00 He's part of a parable that was a story of custom
47:03 to the Jews and as well as something
47:05 Jesus was using here to-- to illustrate a point.
47:08 What was the point? Verse 14 says,
47:10 "That the Pharisees also who are covetous
47:13 heard all these things and they derided him."
47:16 The Pharisees were covetous because they believe
47:19 that riches meant God's blessing
47:22 and a sure line into the Kingdom of Heaven.
47:25 If you were wealthy, if you were rich,
47:27 if you had wealth, then you were blessed of God.
47:30 You were a righteous person. You were going to heaven.
47:31 If you were poor, then obviously
47:33 God was chasting you. You needed to repent.
47:35 And you were not going to the right place.
47:37 And so Jesus is using this parable
47:40 of the rich man and Lazarus, of a rich man who has plenty
47:43 and Lazarus who has nothing to turn that whole teaching,
47:47 that whole tradition, that whole false theology
47:49 on end to reverse it completely.
47:52 And when you think about the para--let's--let's look at
47:54 some of these things together here.
47:57 If you were to summarize the entire passage
48:00 or the entire story, it would be simply this.
48:03 There are those that have a lot,
48:06 that care less about those that have nothing.
48:10 But then there are those who have very little
48:13 and they care about those who have nothing.
48:16 And those who are wealthy if they would even let
48:20 the crumbs of their table be given to those who are without,
48:24 it will be more than those
48:26 who don't have anything, really have.
48:29 So the very ones that the wealthy are condemning
48:34 are the very ones that are taking care
48:35 of the needs of the people. Yes.
48:37 So let's put that into spiritual context.
48:39 Who were the wealthy in the Bible?
48:41 Those who were really rich or the ones
48:44 who had the truth of the gospel. Amen.
48:47 They had this message, this golden message for many,
48:50 many years, but they refused to share it with the Gentiles.
48:54 And because they categorized the Gentiles as heathens,
48:57 as those who just really were not worthy
48:59 of the Kingdom of God, yet the Gentiles
49:03 looked at the needs of the poor.
49:05 And the Gentiles, in this story, primarily are the--
49:11 well, let's make it very clear. It sounds terrible.
49:14 But when Jesus used the word "dogs,"
49:17 He was addressing an issue that was very prevalent in that day.
49:21 What did the dog do? The dog licked the sores of Lazarus.
49:26 So Lazarus represented those without.
49:30 And the Gentiles being represented by the dogs.
49:32 The Gentiles were more concerned about
49:33 the needs of the people than those who had much.
49:38 And they're wondering, who is He talking about?
49:40 And to identify who the rich are,
49:43 He says Abraham. So let's go from there.
49:47 You wanna add that-- Well, I love it
49:48 because when you're looking at this
49:49 you've got another category that I haven't seen before
49:51 and that is the Gentiles--
49:53 a Syrophoenician woman was called the dog.
49:54 That's right, there you go.
49:55 So you're talking about how there are people
49:57 in the world who are more sympathetic
49:58 to the poor than religious people are.
50:00 And that is so powerful when you look at this--
50:02 That's right. The story that God is--
50:04 You know, John, just as an insight,
50:06 in heaven we are going to read the Bible
50:08 and we're going to see things in the Bible
50:10 that we've never seen before.
50:11 Things of the past are noticed.
50:12 We're gonna say, "Oh, how did I miss that?"
50:14 I think disciples of Christ were the same way when Jesus left.
50:17 How did we miss the teachings that He was giving us?
50:21 But building on that, yes, there's--there's the crumbs,
50:24 there's the dogs, there's all of these symbols.
50:26 All of these representative symbols in this parable.
50:30 For example, it says here that when Lazarus dies,
50:33 he goes to Abraham's bosom.
50:35 Now I am hoping there won't be a lot of people saved in heaven
50:38 according to the story because I'm sure
50:40 there's not a lot of room
50:41 in Abraham's bosom for a lot of people. That's right.
50:43 If we take the story literally, literally, we are limiting
50:47 the amount of people that can be saved
50:48 because there's not a lot of people
50:50 that can fit in Abraham's bosom, maybe one here and one there
50:52 and a couple of other squeezed in if they're little.
50:55 So we can't take it literally.
50:57 Abraham's bosom is a symbol of the place of the redeemed,
51:00 the symbol of heaven.
51:02 It's the place where Abraham is.
51:03 So obviously we wouldn't take that literally.
51:05 And, therefore, we need to be careful how much
51:08 we literalized this parable of Lazarus and the rich man.
51:12 Then it goes on to talk about body parts. I tell you.
51:16 It says that there's a tongue that's hot
51:19 and needs to be cooled by water.
51:21 There's a finger that needs to be dipped in some water.
51:25 When a person dies, do they lose certain body parts
51:28 or certain body parts go to Abraham's bosom,
51:30 the tongue and the fingers?
51:32 When you see a person in a casket, friends,
51:34 do you see part of their body there
51:36 and part of the body's not there?
51:38 No, there is no separation.
51:39 This actually would deny
51:40 what the truth of the state of the dead is.
51:42 We know that the body goes back to the dust from where it came.
51:46 So again we're using body parts here as symbols.
51:51 It's not literal. It's symbolic.
51:52 And the other thing about that to show it's not a--
51:55 to show that this is can-- also speaking about
51:58 a future state of those who reject God.
52:01 They will be cast, body and soul--Yes. In hell.
52:06 And so the destruction of the wicked is not gonna be,
52:08 "Well, we'll preserve some things for eternal posterity."
52:14 No, that's not gonna be the case.
52:15 The destruction of the wicked will be--
52:16 they'll be thrown entirely in the fires of hell.
52:20 Now I have a little thing of water here.
52:22 Now honestly, don't switch the camera
52:24 because we don't usually drink on camera.
52:26 But if I were to dip my finger in my own bottle of water...
52:31 I'm really thirsty, James. Ah, much better now.
52:35 That couldn't crunch my thirst in a comfortable environment.
52:38 Yes. Let alone in a hell.
52:41 Yeah, this is, and this is very comfortable environment.
52:42 It's quite air-conditioned in here.
52:44 It's quite cool, but I can't imagine
52:46 that coming close to a hot day,
52:49 never mind in a-- in a place of torment.
52:51 And when you think about even the--
52:52 even the pictures there that's given,
52:55 it identifies them, first of all,
52:56 as the children of Abraham.
52:58 The other thing that is true about the story
52:59 with the parable, even though the parable
53:01 communicates this message. This is true.
53:03 There is a gulf fix between the righteous and the wicked.
53:06 The wicked cannot join the righteous.
53:08 I mean, the wicked who don't want to join--
53:10 the righteous don't want to join the wicked
53:12 and the wicked can't join the righteous.
53:14 The gulf will be forever fixed. They can't pass back and forth.
53:17 But amazingly enough, you find, first of all,
53:19 the wealthy and they are the ones
53:20 that are a part of Abraham's lineage.
53:22 They even actually said that.
53:24 But verse 28 is a very significant one.
53:26 He says, "For I have five brothers."
53:28 Now what were the five brothers that the Jews had
53:31 that was so significant that they boasted about?
53:34 I have five brothers, the Pentateuch.
53:38 The five major books of the Bible,
53:40 was that the very writings
53:42 that they harbored only to themselves.
53:46 These five-- I have five.
53:49 And what happens is, when Jesus spoke to the Jews,
53:51 He so often said to them,
53:53 "You guys got this thing mixed up.
53:55 I'm the living word." John 5:39.
53:57 Read that for us real quickly. John 5:39.
54:00 We know, we know that, right? Search the scriptures.
54:03 Yes. "For in them you think you have eternal life,
54:05 and they are they which testify of me."
54:07 Okay, now get this. In them you think you have eternal life.
54:12 The Jews would rather read their five brothers.
54:15 All the five books of Genesis, Exodus,
54:17 Leviticus, Deuteronomy, Numbers.
54:19 They'd rather read those five books than accept
54:22 the Messiah who is standing right in front of them.
54:24 He said, "Search the scriptures,
54:26 for in them you think you have eternal life." Hello, guys?
54:31 The very book that you're spending
54:32 all your time on-- on is talking about Me.
54:34 And I'm right here and you're rejecting Me.
54:37 I don't want the Messiah. I want the books. Yes.
54:39 Give me the five brothers.
54:41 And then he goes on to the other thing.
54:43 He breaks it down even more. He says, look at verse 30.
54:49 Well, to verify that, Verse 20.
54:52 "I have five brothers, that he may testify to them,
54:55 lest they also come to this place of torment."
54:57 Abraham said to them. 'They have Moses and the Prophets.
55:00 Let them hear them.'" And then verse 30.
55:03 And he said, "No, father Abraham,
55:05 but if one goes to them from the dead, they will not repent.
55:09 Even if one rose from the dead, they will not repent."
55:12 Well, did one rise from the dead?
55:15 Yeah, and verse 30 says, "If one went unto them
55:18 from the dead, they will repent."
55:20 In other words that he was saying,
55:21 "Listen, if, you know, they'll repent
55:24 if they listen to you. They'll repent.
55:26 And, yes, one rose from the dead.
55:27 And did they repent? No.
55:29 Matter of fact, even when he rose the literal Lazarus,
55:33 that was when they made up their mind
55:35 that they must kill Jesus.
55:38 And here's where we made that connection.
55:39 Here's--here's the connection between
55:41 the real Lazarus and this imaginary person.
55:44 And the connection is profound when you think about it because
55:47 even though this is connecting to Lazarus,
55:49 it's also connecting to Jesus Christ. That's right.
55:51 And the story is saying that if you're not willing
55:54 to listen to the Books of Moses, if you will not hear them,
55:58 you will not hear even though someone,
56:01 Jesus Christ Himself is risen from the dead.
56:03 And that's exactly what we see taking place in this context.
56:06 You know, John, I think that this whole message
56:09 could be summarized by one verse in the Bible
56:13 and that's John 3:16. "For God so loved the world."
56:18 Everyone, okay. No one is separated.
56:20 No one is put in the special category. God loves us all.
56:24 We've all sinned and come short
56:25 of the glory of God, but God loves us all.
56:27 "God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten son
56:30 that whoever believes in Him would not perish."
56:34 Would not perish. Exactly.
56:36 Okay. If you don't believe in Jesus, you will perish.
56:38 You don't live on forever and ever in some eternal torment,
56:41 some burning place and you're tormented forever
56:44 and ever and ever and ever without end, infinitely. No.
56:47 There is a hell in the Bible, but that hell brings
56:51 a perishing to those who did not believe in Jesus Christ.
56:54 There's eternal life in Jesus
56:56 or there's perishing without Jesus Christ.
56:58 But God doesn't want anyone to perish.
56:59 "He so loved the world that He gave His only begotten son
57:01 that whoever believes in Him would not perish
57:03 but have everlasting life."
57:05 As a matter of fact, what we often say in our church,
57:07 in movement is, we believe in a hell
57:10 that's hotter than the one that many people believe in,
57:13 because our hell will actually consume the wicked.
57:16 The hell that is often taught in many other churches
57:18 will just cause the wicked to burn forever and ever and ever.
57:21 But the end of our program in not about the hell
57:23 that we will be destroyed in but the Christ
57:25 that will save us from that hell.
57:27 Friends, accept that Lord into your life and when He comes,
57:30 makes a house call on your life,
57:31 we pray that you'll be ready. God bless you. Amen.


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Revised 2014-12-17