Participants: John Lomacang (Host), James Rafferty
Series Code: HCL
Program Code: HCL120011
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00:01 Hello, friends, grab your Bible and a friend
00:03 and sit back as we explore God's word together 00:05 on this edition of "House Calls." 00:22 Welcome to the best Bible program 00:25 for this hour anywhere in the world. 00:27 If we didn't believe that we wouldn't really be here. 00:29 And so today you have James and John. 00:31 Once again the sons of thunder. 00:32 Good to have you here, James. Good to be here, John. 00:34 I tell you, we are coming to you live 00:36 from 3ABN here in West Frankfort, Illinois. 00:40 We have our Bibles, hope you have yours. 00:42 Get your pens, get your family members seated. 00:45 If you're watching this at church 00:46 or wherever you may be, sit down for the next hour 00:49 as we walk together through the word of God. 00:51 A time that is going to be filled with blessings 00:54 because we're gonna invite the spirit of God 00:55 to be here with us. 00:57 And I'm so glad that James is joining me today. 01:00 We did some programs in the past together. 01:03 And I think the chemistry is very good. 01:06 And so praise the Lord that, you know your Bible. 01:07 That's the biggest part about it. 01:09 That's the neat thing, isn't it? 01:10 And we also know the Lord, 01:12 but before we do anything today, 01:13 I'd like to have you have our prayer. Amen. 01:14 Before we go, before the people 01:16 with our questions and our Bible. 01:18 Amen. Let's pray. 01:19 Father, we're just thankful for another opportunity 01:21 to open Your word and to share with those 01:24 who are listening, the viewers, 01:26 the beautiful message of truth that You've given us there. 01:29 We prize it above all of our earthly possessions. 01:32 And we pray that as those who are listening join us 01:35 as we open Your word, as we move 01:37 through these passages, these texts, 01:38 that our hearts will be knit again together with You 01:41 and that each one will be drawn closer 01:44 in their personal relationship with the Lord Jesus Christ. 01:47 Be with us to this end. 01:48 Send Your spirit to guide and direct and to speak to us, 01:51 we pray in Jesus name, amen. Amen. Thank you. 01:55 Now for those of you who have Bible questions, 01:59 you know, that this part of the program is significant 02:01 because we always begin with your Bible questions 02:04 that you send so faithfully. 02:05 And thank you for sending them. 02:07 But if there's something we say today 02:08 or something that's in your mind right now 02:11 that you want to email to us you can do 02:12 so by sending an email to housecalls@3abn.org. 02:16 That's housecalls@3abn.org. 02:19 And we take advantage of modern technology. 02:21 But if you're at some place where 02:23 you have no internet connection 02:24 and you prefer sending a mail, 02:26 send that to P.O. Box 220, 02:28 West Frankfort, Illinois, 62896. 02:31 Attention House Calls and we'll get that information. 02:34 And hopefully we'll be able to cover it 02:36 on the topics that come up. 02:38 And if you don't hear about yours now, be patient. 02:41 We'll cover that in the future. 02:42 But we'll be given some questions today. 02:44 What do you have for us, James? 02:45 Well, the first question that comes in 02:47 from a listener and they are asking. 02:50 "At the first resurrection will the unsaved 02:53 who are living at that time be destroyed, 02:55 sent to their graves until the second resurrection? 02:58 During the 1,000 year reign with our Lord in heaven 03:01 will there be any humans living on the earth? 03:04 And that is a really good question. Wow. 03:06 The first section of scripture 03:08 that I think about in relation to this question 03:10 is Revelation Chapter 20. 03:13 Revelation Chapter 20 03:14 is one of the last chapters in the Book of Revelation. 03:17 Revelation 22 is the last chapter. 03:19 So almost at the very end of the Bible 03:22 you're going to find Revelation Chapter 20. 03:25 And the whole chapter deals 03:27 with this question and goes beyond that. 03:29 So we're not going to look at every verse 03:31 in Revelation Chapter 20. 03:33 But we're going to look here at just a couple of verses 03:36 that I think will really help us to understand 03:38 what takes place when Jesus returns. 03:42 John says in Revelation Chapter 20 03:44 and we're going to begin here with verse 4. 03:49 "And I saw thrones." Well, verse 3, excuse me. 03:53 Well, we better start with verse 1. 03:55 I hate to do that. Let's do it. 03:56 Look at the context. Exactly. 03:58 "And I saw an angel come down from heaven, 03:59 having the key to the bottomless pit 04:01 and a great chain in his hand. 04:02 And he laid hold upon the dragon, 04:04 that old serpent, which is the Devil, 04:06 and Satan, and bound him a thousand years. 04:09 And he cast him into the bottomless pit 04:11 and shut him up and set a seal upon him 04:13 that he should deceive the nations no more 04:15 till the thousand years should be fulfilled. 04:17 And after that he must be loosed a little season. 04:21 And I saw thrones and they that sat upon them. 04:23 And judgment was given unto them. 04:25 And I saw the souls of them that were beheaded 04:27 for the witness of Jesus and for the word of God 04:29 which had not worshipped the beast, 04:31 neither his image, neither received his mark 04:32 upon their foreheads, or in their hands, 04:35 and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 04:39 But the rest of the dead lived not again 04:42 until the thousand years were finished. 04:44 This is the first resurrection. 04:47 Blessed and holy is he that has part in the first resurrection. 04:50 On such the second death has no power, 04:53 but they shall be priests of God and of Christ 04:56 and shall reign with him a thousand years." 04:59 And final verse, "When the thousand years are expired, 05:03 Satan shall be loosed out of his prison." 05:06 Actually verse 8, "And shall go out to deceive the nations 05:08 which are in the four quarters of the earth, 05:10 Gog and Magog and gather them together to the battle, 05:13 the number of whom is as the sand of the sea." 05:16 Now an outline here, just a brief outline. 05:19 The thousand years begins at the second coming of Jesus. 05:22 We know that. 05:23 When Jesus returns, the wicked are destroyed 05:26 by the brightness of His coming. 05:27 2 Thessalonians Chapter 2 tells us that. 05:29 And that is what it's been described here 05:31 briefly in Revelation Chapter 20. 05:33 The focus of Revelation 20 is the first resurrection. 05:36 The first resurrection-- those who have part 05:38 in the first resurrection and they are those 05:40 who believe in Christ. 05:42 Many of them were beheaded or martyred for Christ. 05:45 They are going to reign with Christ for a thousand years. 05:49 Satan on the other hand is, 05:51 we're told, is put in a prison so to speak. 05:54 It's not a literal prison. 05:55 Bars, chains, can't hold the demons. 05:58 We are clearly told that in the gospels 06:01 there were demons who where held with bars and chains, 06:03 and they just broke them. 06:04 But this is a prison of circumstance. That's right. 06:07 There's nobody in this world that he can tempt 06:10 because all of the faithful, 06:13 the righteous have been resurrected and gone to heaven. 06:15 And all of the wicked have been destroyed 06:17 by the brightness of the second coming of Jesus. 06:19 So to answer the question, it says here, 06:21 during the thousand year reign with our Lord in heaven 06:23 will there be any humans living on the earth? 06:25 No. There will be no humans. 06:27 Satan will be on this earth 06:29 but there will be no humans living on this earth. 06:32 At the first resurrection the unsaved are slain, 06:35 destroyed, sent to their graves 06:37 until the second resurrection. 06:39 And the righteous are taken to heaven 06:40 to reign with Christ for a thousand years. 06:44 Very simple and to the point. It is. 06:46 And one of the things that we want to point out 06:48 and add to that is, when the Lord comes back 06:51 the wicked are not looking forward to seeing the Lord. 06:55 Now we don't think of a lamb as a vicious beast. 06:59 I mean I haven't heard of people 07:00 that have been rushed to emergency 07:03 because they've been, you know, 07:05 viciously attacked by a lamb. 07:07 But it's amazing the reaction that is talked about 07:10 in Revelation Chapter 6. 07:11 When Jesus is coming, those who have chosen 07:14 not to prepare to meet Him in peace, 07:19 they think of Him in a different light all together. 07:22 Now one writer-- not one writer-- 07:26 one preacher--matter of fact, Elder C.D. Brooks said, 07:30 "The sun hardens clay but it also melts butter." 07:35 So-- I like that. 07:36 You know, it is not the son of man is not Christ 07:42 that makes the situation difficult. 07:44 It's the condition of the heart. 07:46 Those who are looking forward to Christ coming, 07:49 they are-- their hearts are soft. 07:51 They are like the melted butter. 07:53 You know, they're just waiting for Christ to come. 07:54 But those who have rejected Him, 07:56 they're like the hard clay. 07:58 The appearance of Christ hardens their hearts 08:00 even more against His second coming. 08:03 And thus you find a phrase in Revelation Chapter 6, 08:07 and we're looking here at verse 15. 08:12 Actually look at verse 14 and then we go on to verse 17. 08:17 And it says here in Revelation Chapter 6. 08:20 "Then the sky receded as a scroll when it is rolled up 08:25 and every mountain and island was moved out of its place. 08:29 And the kings of the earth, the great men, 08:31 the rich men, the commanders, 08:33 the mighty men, every slave, and every free man, 08:37 hid themselves in the caves 08:39 and in the rocks of the mountains. 08:41 And said to the mountains and rocks, 08:43 fall on us and hide us from the face of Him 08:47 who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb. 08:50 For the great day of His wrath has come 08:54 and who is able to stand?" 08:56 And when you think of that, 08:59 the righteous are not running away from Christ. 09:01 As a matter of fact, I like the way 09:03 that Ellen White explains in "The Great Controversy." 09:05 You know, the righteous 09:06 were hiding in caves for their safety. 09:09 Now they almost past each other in flight. 09:11 Now the wicked want to hide from Christ in His appearing. 09:15 The righteous were hidden in the caves, in the dens, 09:18 and the mountains, from persecution 09:20 but now it's time for them to come out. 09:22 And the wicked are now wanting to change places 09:24 because the appearance of Christ is coming. 09:27 And so you find that these two groups 09:30 don't meet Christ in peace at all. 09:34 Was the question-- there's a second portion 09:36 of that question about whether or not they're going to be-- 09:38 whether they're not going to be buried? 09:40 What was that they-- 09:41 Yeah, during the thousand year reign with our Lord in heaven, 09:45 Are there any human beings living on the earth? 09:47 Okay, let's look at Jeremiah 25:33. 09:51 Jeremiah 25:33. 09:54 You know one of the things that's not gonna happen 09:56 during the thousand years 09:57 is there are not going to be any funerals. 10:01 We think about that. 10:04 There going to be many, many slain. 10:05 And as you made the reference about 2 Thessalonians. 10:08 The wicked are going to be slain and destroyed 10:10 by the brightness of the coming of the Lord. 10:11 So what's going to happen during that thousand years? 10:14 What condition is the world going to be in? 10:18 We've heard of, you know, nuclear attacks. 10:22 We've heard the atrocious condition of the holocaust 10:27 and what happened then. 10:28 But this is a condition that is not caused by God 10:32 but those who are affected by this choose-- 10:38 and when I say choose, 10:39 there are very few people right now 10:41 that are living sinful life that say, 10:44 "You know, I really want to be destroyed when Jesus comes." 10:47 For some reason people think 10:48 that they're gonna be able to avoid that 10:50 or it's not going to be as bad as Christians say 10:53 it's going to be. 10:54 But read Jeremiah 25:33 for us there in 10:58 and this talks about the condition of the world 11:01 when the Lord comes. 11:04 It says in Jeremiah 25:33, 11:07 "The slain of the Lord shall be at that day 11:09 from one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth. 11:13 They shall not be lamented, neither gathered, nor buried. 11:17 They shall be dung upon the ground." 11:19 That's right. Like refuse. 11:20 They're just gonna be all over the ground. 11:22 And so when you think about that, 11:23 well, what's gonna be happening? 11:25 These are those as the Bible talks about, 11:27 the first resurrection has already taken place. 11:29 There has been a resurrection to life. 11:33 But there is a second resurrection yet to take place. 11:35 And I don't know if you've addressed that. 11:37 We talked about that briefly in Revelation Chapter 20. Yes. 11:40 So that second resurrection is a resurrection of condemnation 11:43 which is going to happen 11:45 during the latter when the thousand years end. 11:48 So this is the group that's gonna be affected. 11:50 They're going to be laying all over the ground 11:52 and I would say, after a thousand years. 11:54 You know, this text is true. 11:56 They will be like dung on the ground. 11:57 They're going to just lay there and decay and refuse. 12:01 And at the end of that thousand years 12:03 the Lord is going to allow them 12:04 to come back to life as a great army. 12:06 The Bible says, "As the sands of the sea," 12:09 to face the final judgment that will be meted out. 12:13 You know, you make a good point there, John. 12:15 And I think the verse brings it out 12:17 not directly but indirectly. 12:19 They are not going to be buried. 12:21 They are not going to be lamented. Why? 12:23 I mean, even if they weren't lamented, 12:25 let's just say, that the-- No mourning exactly. 12:27 Yes, no mourning. 12:29 Let's just say that there's no one 12:31 that really cares about them enough to mourn over them. 12:34 But why wouldn't they at least be buried? 12:36 Because to have corpses laying out 12:38 would cause all kinds of disease and, you know, 12:44 terrible, you know, conditions in the earth. 12:46 So why wouldn't anyone at least bury these corpses? 12:50 Because-- go ahead. 12:53 Well, you've posed the question. 12:54 You want me to answer that? 12:55 You answer. Okay. 12:57 Because you are either one of those corpse 12:59 or you're in heaven. 13:01 Yeah, there's nobody on the earth. 13:02 There's no third category. 13:03 There's nobody there to bury them. 13:05 There's nobody there to lament them. 13:06 So this verse clearly indicates along with the other verses 13:09 we've read that there's nobody alive on the earth 13:13 after the second coming of Jesus Christ. 13:15 Now the reason why this is so important 13:16 is because there are many Christians, 13:18 honest Christians, Bible believing Christians, 13:21 but not necessarily Bible students, students of the Bible, 13:25 who believe that the thousand years 13:27 is going to be a thousand years of peace on this earth. 13:30 That there's going to be maybe a secret rapture of the church. 13:33 And that certain Christians are going to go to heaven 13:36 but others are gonna have a second chance. 13:38 And after the Antichrist has reigned for 7 years 13:41 or 3 and half years, etcetera, 13:43 there will be these thousand years 13:45 in which we can turn to the Lord, etcetera 13:46 and they're gonna be people on the earth 13:48 during the thousand years. 13:49 The Bible doesn't teach that. 13:51 The Bible does not teach that at all. 13:53 The Bible teaches very clearly what's going to happen 13:55 at the beginning of the thousand years. 13:57 And in the Old Testament, 13:59 looking forward to the end of time, 14:01 as well as in the New Testament 14:03 which confirms the Old Testament, 14:04 the Bible is very clear that during the thousand years, 14:06 no one is buried and no one is lamented. 14:09 Nobody is mourned over because 14:11 there are no people on the earth. 14:13 The wicked are all slain 14:14 and the righteous are all taken to heaven. 14:16 That's right. There is no one here to say, 14:20 "Wow, what do we do with all these bodies?" 14:22 There is no funeral home to say, 14:23 "Well, we'd like to make funeral arrangements," 14:25 because even the funeral director himself 14:27 will either be among the saved or among the lost. 14:30 No third category. Amen. 14:32 And so that's why John 5:28 and 29 is so significant. 14:36 "Do not marvel at this or marvel not at this for the hour 14:38 is coming in the which all that are in the graves 14:41 will hear His voice and come forth. 14:43 They that have done good, unto the resurrection of life, 14:46 they that have done evil unto the resurrection 14:48 of damnation or condemnation." 14:50 Only two categories and so it would be whose 14:52 all of us to be in one of those two categories 14:55 because what a sad situation 14:57 that's going to be to look at that and think, 15:00 I could have been in one of these categories. 15:02 And that's one of the reasons why Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, 15:08 speaks of this weeping and wailing 15:11 and gnashing of teeth. 15:13 It's an agony, an indescribable agony of those who said, 15:17 "Do you mean that what I have rejected 15:20 has actually been true?" 15:23 You know the opportunities 15:24 I've had similar to the day of the flood. 15:27 When the doors were closed 15:28 there was no entrance for anyone. 15:31 And as it was in the days of Noah, sadly enough, 15:34 Matthew says, "So also will it be in the days 15:36 of the coming of the Son of Man." Amen. 15:38 And only two categories. 15:40 Revelation 22:12, 15:42 "The righteous, he that is righteous 15:44 let him be righteous, he that is filthy," 15:46 you have the holy and you have the unjust. 15:49 So, you know, it makes sense-- great answer to the question. 15:53 But the question is which category 15:55 are you planning to be in? 15:56 That's the real question. 15:58 Wow. That's a deep one there. 16:01 Now this as the topic is really one that's kind of timely. 16:05 A lot of issues have risen in the media, in politics. 16:10 It's not a new issue. It's one that's really old. 16:14 But it brings out a point that lets us see how far-- 16:20 how far things-- and I'm being general right now 16:22 until I read the question. 16:24 It shows you the breakdown in morality in our world 16:28 which is not new to us. 16:29 But it shows the extent of its permeation, 16:33 how far its tentacles have reached. 16:36 This is an amazing question. 16:38 One person says, "I work for a church that says 16:41 homosexuality is not sinful 16:43 and has an openly gay music minister. 16:47 The pastor also says that God of all religions is the same one. 16:53 I used to think this was okay, 16:56 but I've learned from the Bible and Holy Spirit 16:59 that this is an apostate church. 17:02 What should I do? 17:03 I'm a recently single and cannot afford--" 17:09 okay, they have been recently single in other words 17:11 and they cannot afford to quit. 17:13 That is they don't want to quit church. 17:14 What do you recommend that they do? 17:17 You know this is a strong topic. 17:20 One of the first things I want to say here about this topic is, 17:24 you know, James, this is one of those sensitive topics 17:28 where we have to separate 17:29 the sin from the sinner. Absolutely. 17:31 A lot of times people have seen Christians as-- 17:34 and it is sad but I've seen picketing signs 17:37 where people have held up signs, 17:39 God hates homosexuals. God hates gays. God hates fags. 17:42 This horrible insensitive statements. 17:46 We can hold up signs and say, 17:47 God hates murderers. God hates thieves. 17:51 God hates liars. God hates adulterers. 17:53 God hates adulterers. God doesn't hate anyone. Right. 17:56 He loves the sinner but He hates the sin. 18:00 And so often Christians have been 18:02 put into that loveless category 18:05 where we come across in a judgmental way. 18:07 And that's why the church has become a place 18:09 now where you have the pendulum swing almost to the other side 18:14 where somebody who may have been gay 18:16 or lesbian or homosexual 18:18 or whatever the preference is, decides, okay, 18:20 well, since I'm not accepted in the regular Christian church, 18:22 I'm gonna open my own. And everybody is accepted there. 18:26 Well, it's synonymous to opening a church 18:28 for where everybody is thieves. 18:32 I like the point you're making here, John. 18:33 This is such a powerful point 18:36 because we have specialized-- Right. 18:38 The category of homosexuality, 18:39 because we put it in its own special category. Right. 18:43 Now we're going to the other extreme. 18:45 And if we would have recognized 18:47 from the beginning, as Christians, 18:49 that homosexuality is no different than any-- 18:51 than maybe in a liar. It's no different. 18:54 God has identified in His word 18:57 what sin is and that identification 18:59 comes through the word of God 19:01 and through the law of God especially. 19:04 The law of God does not say, 19:06 "Honor your father and your father 19:08 or honor your mother and your mother." 19:09 The law of God says, "Honor your father and your mother." 19:12 But the law of God also says, 19:13 "Thou shall not steal. Thou shall not kill." 19:16 To put homosexuality outside 19:19 the category of sin is one extreme. 19:22 To put homosexuality in a separate category 19:25 of sin is another extreme. That's right. 19:27 So we're all sinners saved by grace. 19:28 God loves each one of us. 19:30 God loves the homosexuals as much as He loves me, 19:31 as much as He loves John, 19:33 as much He loves anyone of us. That's right. 19:34 We've fallen short of the glory of God 19:36 and this is a very important point. 19:38 Revelation 21:8, as a matter of fact-- 19:41 and to answer the question for the person, 19:43 what should you do? 19:45 You should seek a church 19:46 that stands strongly on the Bible principle 19:48 that all sin is-- Yes. 19:50 What Jesus came to save us from. Amen. 19:53 "He shall save His people from their sin," Matthew 1:21. 19:56 Not to save us in our sin. 19:58 Jesus didn't come to make sin comfortable to us. 20:00 He came to show us the ignominious 20:05 magnitude of the sinfulness of sin. 20:08 So He hasn't said, "Well, you know, 20:10 since this is something that you guys really like, 20:14 let's go and open a church for it." 20:15 So we can open a church for extortioners. 20:17 We can open a church for sorcerers. 20:19 We can open a church for witchcraft. 20:21 We can-- and Satan has done so. 20:23 You know the church of Satan-- 20:25 I lived in California where Anton LaVey, 20:27 the high priest of the church of Satan. 20:29 Marilyn Manson, one of the priests 20:31 of the church of Satan. 20:32 So those who want to worship demons and witches and, 20:36 you know, spirits, they open their own church. 20:39 And we see that in Revelation 18. 20:42 It talks about where Babylon, 20:44 this entire corrupt system of worship 20:46 has become the cage of every foul spirit 20:49 and unclean and hateful bird. 20:52 So we see that evil spirits will exist 20:54 in places called churches. 20:56 But Revelation 21:8, I want to show you 21:00 how the Lord puts these all together in one category. 21:03 And we are talking about the second death. 21:04 So this is the reason I chose this passage. 21:07 Read Revelation 21:8. 21:08 Revelation 21:8 says, 21:10 "But the fearful and the unbelieving 21:12 and the abominable and murderers 21:15 and whoremongers and sorcerers 21:17 and idolaters and all liars 21:20 shall have their part in the lake 21:21 which burns with fire and brimstone, 21:24 which is the second death." 21:26 And the word there, "whoremongers" 21:27 is the broader word in the Greek, 21:29 "sexually immoral." 21:31 So sexual immorality, for person wh's gay 21:36 and lesbian and transgender and bisexual 21:38 is no different from a guy who's an adulterer. 21:41 Exactly right, fornicator. 21:42 Or fornicator, is all sexual immorality. 21:45 Anything outside of the marriage vow, 21:46 the marriage relationship, according to the Bible. 21:50 And this one here Paul the apostle, 21:52 1 Corinthians 5:9, 21:54 I want to look at that one here. 21:57 1 Corinthians 5:9. 21:58 So if your pastor says there's nothing wrong with it 22:00 then he's deleted quite a bit of his Bible which nowadays, 22:04 James, is not an odd thing. It's not at all. 22:06 Lot of people say, well, Paul had an issue. No. 22:08 Paul was under the inspiration 22:10 of God just like anyone else. 22:12 But 1 Corinthians 5:9, 22:15 you know, I'm borrowing Pastor C.A.'s glasses today. 22:18 So for those of you who watch and say, 22:19 "Hey, he's got new glasses." 22:21 These glasses belong to Pastor C.A. Murray, for the record. 22:26 I drove up in here and said, 22:27 "My glasses, I left them at home." 22:29 And I live so far away, a mile-- 22:31 They look good, John. They look good, really. 22:32 I tell you, it's a new statement. 22:35 Here we are, 1 Corinthians 5:9. 22:38 Matter of fact, this chapter is delivery from fornication. 22:42 Deliver the fornicator for discipline. 22:45 Look what it says here, 22:47 "I wrote to you in my epistle" and this is old. 22:51 This is a long time ago Paul wrote this letter. 22:53 He's writing this to the Corinthians 22:54 but it applies to us today. 22:56 He says, "I wrote to you in my epistle, 22:59 not to keep company with sexually immoral people. 23:03 Yet I certainly did not mean 23:07 with the sexually immoral people of this world 23:10 or with the covetous or extortioners or idolaters 23:14 since then you would need to go out of the world. 23:20 But now I have written to you 23:22 not to keep company with anyone named a brother 23:26 who is a fornicator or covetous or an idolater 23:31 or a reveler or a drunkard or an extortioner, 23:35 not even to eat with such a person. 23:37 For what have I to do with judging 23:39 those also who are outside? 23:42 Do you not judge those who are inside?" 23:45 Now just very quickly, this is an amazing text here. 23:48 It really is and clearly misunderstood. 23:50 The reason why Paul is saying here, 23:52 he says, I'm not telling you not to talk to people 23:56 that are outside of the household of faith 23:59 because maybe you need to reach them. 24:01 But he said, what is really troubling me 24:03 is these sins are now also in the household of faith. 24:07 Yes. And if you got a brother who's sexually immoral, 24:10 an extortioner, a liar, a fornicator, 24:12 covetous, idolater, don't keep company with him 24:16 because we know-- evil habits corrupt-- 24:22 How does that phrase go? 24:25 Evil habits corrupt good manners-- 24:27 Good manners. 24:28 In other words one bad apple spoils the whole bunch. Yes. 24:31 Let's go ahead and put it in the context of that cliché. 24:33 So he's in essence saying, 24:34 if this is in the house of God, be careful. 24:37 Don't keep company with those 24:39 who are in the household of faith 24:42 and are practicing this kind of sin. 24:43 John, these verses are so powerful 24:46 because Paul here is speaking to the church in Corinth. 24:50 He's speaking to the church body. 24:52 He's speaking to the organization here. 24:55 He's not speaking to individuals. 24:57 He's speaking to the organized church. 24:58 And he's saying to the organized church-- 25:00 and this is the question that we're dealing with. 25:03 He's saying to the organized church, 25:04 "Listen, I don't want you to go out of the world. 25:06 I don't want you to stop fellowshipping with 25:09 and individually connecting with people in the world, 25:12 but as a body do not bring into fellowship, 25:15 do not bring into membership, 25:16 people who have chosen to live that lifestyle. Right. 25:19 You can have them in the church 25:21 but don't make them music leader. 25:22 You can have them in the church but don't make them deacons. 25:24 You can connect with these people 25:26 and reach out to these people. 25:27 We need to. Jesus did. That's right. 25:29 And Jesus told us, when you discipline 25:31 someone in the church 25:33 consider them a heathen or publican. 25:35 How do we consider heathens and publicans? 25:37 We reach out to them. We pray for them. 25:39 We witness to them. We help them. 25:42 But we don't take them into the church 25:43 and give them leadership roles. 25:45 We don't take them into the church 25:46 and give them membership. Right. 25:48 Because we are calling them to accept Christ as their Savior 25:51 and we are calling them to experience the freedom from sin 25:54 that God gives to us in the gospel. 25:56 And so Paul here is talking about a person that has come in, 26:00 accepted Christ and now backs him back into the world. 26:02 And he's saying, "Listen, he needs to be disciplined." 26:04 That's right. You need to take him out of the church body. 26:07 As a body you should not have him 26:09 in this position of membership 26:11 and in this position of leadership 26:12 if he had any position of leadership. 26:14 But I don't mean to tell you 26:15 that you should have nothing to do with him 26:17 in an individual redemptive sense. 26:20 Right. You see. 26:21 And so it's so powerful to understand this in that context 26:24 because later on in 2 Corinthians-- 26:26 we are in 1 Corinthians. That's right. 26:28 Where you have all the rebukes. 26:29 In 2 Corinthians Paul says, 26:31 "I think you don't want to overdo with this guy." 26:34 He's talking about the same person. That's right. 26:35 "I don't want you to overdo with this guy 26:37 because I don't want you to cause them too much sorrow. 26:39 I don't want them to be too overwhelmed." 26:40 Because what happens many times when someone backslides 26:44 is they feel overwhelmed at a certain point 26:47 when the church disciplines him and that's what it's for. 26:49 Church discipline is a good thing. 26:51 But they can feel overwhelmed and come to the point 26:53 where they feel like God's given up on them. 26:54 And we never want to lead 26:56 someone to come to that conclusion. 26:57 Yeah, matter of fact, Jesus says, 26:59 "The smoking flax I will not quench, 27:00 nor a bruised reed I will not break." Amen, amen. 27:02 There are those who have been dealt with in a disciplinary way 27:06 and they are still weak in so many ways. 27:09 Fledglings as it were just about ready to give up 27:12 and about to lose their faith 27:14 and you don't want to just keep hammering away. 27:17 But you hope in a redemptive sense 27:19 that enough time has passed 27:21 and enough work has gone on with them 27:23 that they understand the error of their way. 27:25 And so in a nutshell, you know, we are living in a day and age 27:28 where the Bible says, "As it was in the days of Sodom, 27:32 it's gonna be the very same way just before Jesus comes." 27:34 And we're living in a time-- 27:35 Sodom was a city where men went after men, 27:39 where women were with women. 27:41 And when Paul outlines this in Romans Chapter 1, 27:44 the sin of sodomy was what brought down 27:46 the cities of the plains, Sodom and Gomorrah. 27:48 And so today we have this 27:51 explosion of same sex issues. 27:57 It's among the teenagers. It's experimental. 28:00 They have songs that are conditioning 28:02 children, teenagers. There's a song-- 28:04 and because I did a series 28:06 called "Unclean Spirits" about the cult 28:08 in the music industry or entertainment industry. 28:10 There's a song that lot of young people-- 28:12 young girls are just humming as they go along. 28:14 And one famous music artist, 28:16 a female at that has written a song, 28:19 "I kissed a girl and I liked it." 28:21 And that's the theme. And I was going through 28:25 putting research and materials together 28:27 and I thought-- and you look at the song, 28:29 very high up on the charts, very popular, 28:31 at least I don't know where it stands now. 28:32 But it was very popular at the time 28:34 it came out, not too long ago. 28:36 But I kissed a girl and I liked it 28:38 and then you follow these leads 28:40 just to see where this is all headed. 28:41 And young people now-a-days are saying, 28:44 "Well, its okay to experiment. 28:45 It doesn't mean I'm gay. 28:46 It doesn't mean I'm bisexual, you know. 28:48 It's okay for a guy to experiment with a guy 28:49 just to see, you know, if that's something I like." 28:52 But you see this is sin. 28:54 They have opened the door and you sow the wind. 28:59 And you reap the whirlwind. 29:00 You cannot go down the path of darkness 29:02 and not expect to be heading in the wrong direction. 29:05 And it's very clear, John, 29:07 you know, when you read the Bible, 29:08 sometimes where people will say, 29:10 "Well, there isn't a lot in there about homosexuality." 29:12 Oh, man. Nevertheless I'd like to--to say this. 29:16 Nevertheless, there's nothing there to help us to recognize 29:20 that homosexuality was like fornication, 29:23 was like adultery, was like lying, 29:26 was like stealing. It is a sin. 29:28 And the reason why you might say-- 29:30 well, the reason why there isn't a lot in there 29:32 about homosexuality is because God's not against it. 29:34 No. The reason why there's not a lot in there 29:36 is because it is an obvious sin 29:40 that God didn't need to elaborate on. 29:42 If God is talking against fornication which-- 29:45 John, look at the world today. 29:46 We know that, you know, who knows? 29:49 50% of people are living together 29:51 instead of getting married. I don't know. 29:52 That's another one. But the levels are-- 29:54 but that is an obvious clear sin. 29:56 And so what we're saying here, friends, 29:57 is not that God is against homosexuals, 30:00 anymore than He's against any other sin in the Bible. 30:04 But God is clearly establishing standard that we don't meet. 30:08 None of us meet that standard, whether we're in an homosexual-- 30:12 homosexuality is our difficulty or fornication 30:15 or lying or stealing, none of us meet that standard. 30:17 But we have a Savior. His name is Jesus Christ. 30:19 That's right. And His grace is sufficient for us. 30:23 He can give us the grace and the strength that we need. 30:26 We don't need to compromise our church standards. 30:27 We don't need to compromise the gospel of Jesus Christ. 30:30 God loves all people. 30:32 And God can help and heal all of us from whatever inherited 30:35 or cultivated tendency to sin we have. 30:37 That's right. I'm so glad you point that out. 30:40 There's some people today that say, "Don't pray for me 30:43 'cause I don't have a problem. I don't wanna be-- 30:47 This is not a phase I'm going through. 30:48 This is not a lifestyle." 30:50 This is just-- and the other one's-- 30:52 and I'm not completely opposed to the idea 30:54 that people saying-- just hear me out carefully. 30:57 Don't edit the tape right here. 30:59 Some people say, "Well, how can you say 31:01 there's something wrong with that? 31:02 I was born this way." We are all born in sin. Yes. 31:09 But we don't have to cultivate sin. 31:12 There are those born in families that are predisposed to alcohol. 31:14 That's me. That's me. 31:16 Alcoholic father, mother, grandmother. 31:18 I mean, I was drinking alcohol having blackouts 31:21 when I was a teenager. Okay. 31:23 And I know that I cannot go near that. 31:24 I know that I cannot touch that. 31:26 So I have that genetic disposition. 31:27 Wow, I didn't know that. 31:29 I'm genetically inclined that way. 31:30 But God has given me victory. 31:31 If you put a glass of alcohol before me today, 31:33 now 28 years ago it would have been a temptation. 31:36 My roommates tempted me in that way. 31:38 But today you put and there's no temptation. 31:40 It's not even a temptation to me. Why? 31:43 Because God has-- by His grace, 31:45 He has made my weak point, 31:46 my genetically inherited weak point, my strongest point. 31:49 And He can do that with any one of us. That's right. 31:51 If we give our hearts and our lives to Him on a daily basis. 31:53 That is right. 31:55 So the predisposition is there for many things 31:57 depending on environmental situations, 32:00 hereditary situations, babies that are born, 32:03 you know, with low tolerance to certain drugs 32:06 because they are drug babies. 32:07 And then they are those who are born to families 32:09 that were thieves all their lives. 32:11 You know, generation of thieves. 32:13 You've heard the phrase "The Gypsies." 32:15 Not to say that all Gypsies are bad people, 32:17 but somebody was recently pickpocketed in France. 32:22 And they said, "Oh, the Gypsies just look for tourist 32:25 because they know how to pickpocket. 32:26 They practice this. So they are thieves. 32:28 So when you look at the Bible and you begin to say, 32:30 "Well, which sin is more debasing than the other?" 32:33 The one, the only thing 32:35 that gives this sin of homosexuality-- 32:42 let me rephrase that. 32:44 One of the things that the sin of homosexuality does, 32:47 it changes the image of God in the human race. 32:51 When you read Genesis, 32:52 one of the things that God did was, 32:54 He made male and female in the image of God. 32:57 Created He them, male and female, 33:01 He created them. 33:03 So when man and woman is joined together, 33:04 they complete the image of God in the human race. 33:09 If we decided from this point on, 33:10 men will be with men and women will be with women, 33:13 what will happen with procreation? Plummet. 33:16 What will happen with the image of God? 33:18 Completely distorted. 33:20 And that was really what brought down-- 33:22 when you read Romans 1, 33:23 that was really the reason why God gave them up. Yes. 33:26 He says in verse 26 Romans 1. 33:28 "For this reason God gave them up to vile passions." 33:32 "For even their women," Romans 1:26. 33:34 "Even their women exchanged the natural use 33:38 for what is against nature. 33:40 Likewise also men, "Verse 27. 33:42 "Leaving the natural use of the woman, 33:46 burned in their lust for one another, men with men, 33:48 committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves 33:52 the penalty of their error which was due. 33:54 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, 33:59 God gave them over to a debased mind, 34:01 to do those things which are not fitting. 34:04 Being filled with all unrighteousness, 34:06 sexual immorality, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness." 34:10 Notice how all these things other sins being added to that. 34:12 Yes, very good point. 34:13 Not separating these out. Right. 34:14 God is saying, "They've been immoral sexually 34:17 one with another, same sex." 34:19 But that was not a separate sin. No. 34:21 Whisperers. Yes. 34:22 All of these. He had gossip. 34:24 All of the sins that we think are acceptable in "society." 34:29 Right. And then we have this other sin, homosexuality, 34:32 which is for years has not been acceptable in society 34:35 and God is saying, it's all the same. 34:36 He puts them all in the same category. 34:38 Envy, whisperers, evil-minded, vile, and proud. 34:42 You say to a person, "Pride is just a--" 34:44 say it again. "isn't just about appearance." 34:47 Ain't that amazing? So when you think 34:49 about this issue of homosexuality, 34:50 just to wind up that question section here. 34:53 Sin is sin. Jesus came to save us from sin. 34:57 And He can save anybody, 34:58 but just don't be fooled into thinking 35:00 that you could be a part of a church 35:01 and under the leadership of the pastor 35:03 who will lead you down that road and say, "He's a man of God." 35:06 I would say, 2 Corinthians 11:13 and 14 35:14 brings that out that for such a false apostles, 35:19 deceitful workers transforming 35:21 themselves into apostles of Christ. 35:24 These are ministers, but these are false apostles, 35:28 but they look like ministers. 35:30 And the Bible says, "For no marvel, 35:32 for Satan himself also appears as an angel of the light." 35:36 And, you know, we say this, John, 35:37 because we recognize, for example, 35:39 that there are a lot of churches that have imbibed "sin." 35:45 When we look at the Ten Commandments 35:46 for example, we're looking at commandment number 4. 35:50 "Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy. 35:52 And there are a lot of churches who don't remember 35:53 the Sabbath day to keep it holy. 35:55 They don't remember that the seventh-day is the Sabbath. 35:57 And they don't remember how that is kept holy. 36:00 So we need to be careful not to follow churches necessarily. 36:04 Not to follow ministers necessarily 36:06 because their example is gonna continue in that path. 36:09 We must follow the word of God. 36:11 We must make the Bible our refuge and our strength. 36:14 We must make the word of God our leader 36:16 and our counselor and follow what God says. 36:19 And believe that He has the grace 36:20 that is sufficient for us. 36:22 That's right. Thank you, James. 36:23 And I hope we answered the question. 36:25 We've spent a little time on that 36:26 just to let you know it's important. 36:28 And we serve a great Savior. Amen. 36:32 Well, if you have any Bible questions 36:34 that will come to mind because of may be something 36:36 we said today or maybe questions that you have 36:38 that have not yet been answered, 36:39 you can send those questions to housecalls@3abn.org. 36:43 That's housecalls@3abn.org. 36:45 And if anybody asks you 36:47 about a balanced Bible program, remember this one. 36:50 Also sometimes you'll see James on Book of the Books, 36:53 another very good program that's held by 3ABN. 36:55 And sometimes you'll see 36:57 James Rafferty and Ty Gibson together. 36:59 And I recommend also wonderful Bible students 37:02 as they partner together in sharing the word of God. 37:04 But this is a network that believes in the undiluted 37:07 Three Angels' Messages, 37:08 one that will counteract the counterfeit. 37:11 And thank you for all you do to keep this nation, 37:13 to keep this station and this network strong. 37:16 Amen. That's the good one, station network. 37:18 If you put that together as nation. 37:20 That's a good one. Accidental, but-- 37:22 I got that. Well, lead us into our topic today. 37:24 We're gonna be talking about something. 37:25 There was a text in Luke. Yes. 37:28 We're gonna be talking about the topic of hell today. 37:30 And some people say, the devil is in charge of hell. 37:33 He's gonna be rotissering people throughout eternity. 37:36 We don't believe that. 37:37 But we are gonna address this issue 37:39 what the Bible says about hell 37:40 and what it doesn't say about hell. 37:42 And it comes to us really through a question. 37:43 And I really appreciate the program that we're doing 37:46 because it's based on a lot of the questions that come in 37:48 that you have about these Bible topics. 37:51 And this question comes in-- 37:52 actually it's more of a statement, 37:54 not really a question. Dear, John and John. 37:56 Well, I'm James, but, of course, you understand. 37:58 If there is no hell then what is this? Please read on. 38:03 Luke 16:22, 23, 27, and 28. 38:07 "The rich man also died and was buried. 38:09 And being in torments in Hades, 38:11 he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham afar off, 38:14 and Lazarus in his bosom. 38:16 Then he said, 'I beg you, therefore, Father, 38:19 that you would send him to my father's house, 38:21 for I have five brothers that he may testify to them, 38:24 lest they also come to this place of torment.'" 38:27 It is the story, the parable if you will, 38:30 John, of a rich man and Lazarus. 38:32 This story is found in Luke Chapter 16 38:36 and it begins in verse 19 38:38 and goes all the way to verse 31. That's right. 38:41 Our questioner has just sent in a couple of those verses, 38:43 of course, to summarize the point 38:45 that he is making and that is, if there is no hell 38:48 then how does the story of the rich man and Lazarus 38:51 fit in to the biblical teaching on this subject? 38:55 Well, you know, just to begin out-- 38:57 begin with the catapulting statement. 38:59 There is hell. Okay. 39:01 But there is not a now existing hell 39:04 in the sense of the story of Lazarus. 39:07 Very good point. Very good point. 39:08 I think it's a great place to start. 39:11 Seventh-day Adventist, this program and every program 39:14 you see on this station believes that there's a place 39:18 called hell, that there is an experience of hell, 39:20 that hell is a biblical reality and a biblical truth. 39:23 That's right. But the nature of that reality, 39:26 the nature of that truth is what we're discussing right now. 39:29 Many Christians believe it's an eternally 39:31 burning place of torment that is run by Satan. 39:34 And you're thrown in there and Satan is there 39:37 tormenting you endlessly for all eternity. 39:40 We do not believe in that picture of hell. 39:42 Why? Because it's not biblical. That's right. 39:45 As a matter of fact, one of the reasons why-- 39:47 let's--before we deal with the story directly 39:49 and I think that this-- we have the time that 39:51 is allotted to us to deal with this we could spend it 39:54 on this parable and branch out 39:56 to the various scriptures in the Bible. 39:58 One of the things that people don't really take into account 40:00 is the fact that Satan is not gonna be around forever. 40:04 When you look at Ezekiel 28. Let's go to Ezekiel 28. 40:07 And we're gonna come back 40:09 and build on the branches of what these-- 40:10 what are these symbols that are present in the story all about? 40:14 But in the Book of Ezekiel, one of the things that-- 40:18 oh, my God--one of the things that's so significant 40:20 to the story of the end of Satan's life is that he made 40:25 these many claims and that-- but when you look 40:29 at Ezekiel Chapter 28 and through the parable 40:32 of the Prince of Tyre, the Lord speaks of the end of Satan. 40:39 Yeah, the anointed cherub, verse 14. 40:41 The one that was in Eden, verse 13. 40:43 This is a parable that is speaking of Lucifer. 40:49 And when you look at verse 18 and 19, 40:50 it says, "You defiled your sanctuaries 40:52 by the multitude of your iniquities. 40:54 By the iniquity of your trading. Therefore, speaking of his end. 40:58 "I brought forth fire from your midst. It devoured you. 41:03 And I turned you to ashes upon the earth 41:05 in the sight of all who saw you. 41:08 All who knew you among the peoples are astonished at you. 41:12 You have become a horror and shall be no more forever." 41:16 And it's interesting because the way 41:19 that is written in the King James is, "I will do this." 41:22 Exactly. Now we know in the context of this, 41:24 we're talking about the King of Tyrus. Right. 41:25 We're also talking about Lucifer. 41:27 And so the King James is picking up that idea. 41:30 I will do this to you. 41:31 Lucifer is going to come to an end. 41:33 That's right. And so you see if-- 41:36 if he is going to be ashes 41:38 and he is gonna be no more forever, 41:41 then the natural conclusion, 41:44 before we even get into the actual parable itself, 41:47 is that the place called hell and one of the weaknesses, 41:49 James, of the English language is the fact 41:52 that it does not adequately translate the Greek and Hebrew. 41:55 We have one word, "hell." And we think, "Okay, wow. 41:59 What does that actually mean?" 42:01 Well, the grave is spoken of as hell. Yes. 42:04 You have Old Testament, where Sheol over and over 42:06 and over and over and over again, hell. 42:09 But then you have Hades. This-- 42:10 that's the word used in this parable, the place of burning. 42:13 You have Gehenna, the lake of fire. 42:15 But you also have Tartarus, 42:16 that singular place that appears in 1 Peter, 42:19 I believe Chapter 4 where it talks about 42:22 where the spirit world, where the angels 42:25 that sinned were cast down and delivered in chains of darkness 42:29 reserved unto judgment, reserved for the Day of Judgment. 42:33 1 Peter 2. 1 Peter Chapter 2. 42:35 1 Peter 4:17 I was thinking of, 42:37 judgment beginning at the house of God. 42:38 So you find clearly that hell has many meanings 42:43 in its original language. But the weakness of it is-- 42:46 so let's break this apart. 42:49 We do have a hell today, that's existing now, the grave. 42:53 The grave and that is a biblical truth. 42:56 And, John, I really like this because Ezekiel 28 42:59 also connects to Malachi. 43:01 Malachi 4:3 tells us that it's not only the devil, 43:05 Lucifer, who we brought to nothing, 43:08 brought to ashes, who will be no more. 43:10 But it is also the lost, the wicked. 43:12 It says that, "You will tread down the wicked 43:15 for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet 43:17 in the day that I do this," says the Lord. 43:19 And I, you know, some people will say, 43:21 "Oh, you know, what? Well, God is a merciful God. 43:24 And the Bible clearly teaches, friends, 43:26 that nobody is going to suffer 43:27 for all eternity for the sins of a lifetime. 43:30 Can you imagine the mischaracterization of God 43:34 in relating to this kind of idea, 43:36 this kind of theology, 43:38 that a person lives for three score and ten, 43:41 commit sins, never turns to Jesus as their Savior 43:44 and God causes them to be tormented 43:47 and suffer for eternity for the life of three score and ten. 43:51 I mean, that is just a complete misrepresentation 43:53 of the character and the heart of God. 43:57 The Bible is very clear that there's 43:58 going to be an end to Lucifer. 43:59 There's going to be an end of the wicked, 44:01 that they're gonna be burned up. That's right. 44:02 And they will not suffer endlessly and infinitely 44:06 on and on and on forever and ever and ever 44:08 which brings us to another phrase 44:09 and that is forever and ever and ever which we've got 44:11 to get to that at some point too. 44:13 And when you think of the-- Jesus said, 44:14 "I am the wine. You are the branches." 44:17 When you read, since you're in Malachi, 44:19 read verse 1, Malachi 4:1. 44:21 I'm going back to Malachi-- 44:23 Okay, okay. I left that. 44:24 Okay, well, I could-- oh, got it. 44:26 "For, behold, the day comes, 44:28 that shall burn as an oven, and all the proud, 44:31 yeah, all that do wickedly, shall be stubble, 44:34 and that day that comes shall burn them up, 44:36 says the Lord of hosts, and shall leave them 44:38 neither root nor branch." 44:40 Okay, so Jesus says, 44:41 "I am the wine, you are the branches." 44:43 Now the branches are, in this parable, 44:45 are those who chose to follow Satan. The root is Satan. 44:52 So if the root is going to be destroyed, 44:56 how will the tree exist without roots? 44:59 Well, impossible. It cannot. 45:01 So there's no-- this parable in the-- 45:04 this is truly a parable. 45:05 And if we break this parable down, 45:07 let's look at the language in the parable 45:08 that shows that it, in fact, is a parable. 45:11 Now Jesus taught many things. 45:13 He used some of the teachings of the day 45:16 to communicate a particular truth. 45:19 And this parable, in particular, 45:21 is a message to the Jewish leaders. 45:24 In fact, they continually rejected Christ 45:29 even up to this point, they rejected many-- 45:32 in many cases, the messages of Moses. 45:36 They rejected the messages of the prophets. 45:38 And when you find even later on after Stephen is stoned, 45:42 when Stephen is stoned, he reiterates this 45:45 entire history of the children of Israel 45:47 or the leadership of Israel. 45:48 And he says, "How many prophets have the Lord 45:52 sent to you that you have not stoned?" Yes. 45:56 And so when you look at this parable-- 45:58 let's go through it bit by bit. 46:00 You begin to see the kind of language 46:01 that is clearly a message. 46:03 And what's so amazing as you go on further, 46:06 you'll see that it was so clear in the-- 46:08 even in the parable since it was so clear 46:10 that the Jews perceived he was talking to them. 46:12 Yeah. And it's interesting, John. 46:14 First of all, we know that this is a parable, 46:17 it's the fifth of a line of parables--That's right. 46:20 That Jesus has given here in order. 46:23 So--and a parable is different in nature 46:26 than the plain reading of scripture. 46:29 A parable is very much like prophesy. 46:31 It's symbolic. It has symbols. 46:33 We can't take it literally. 46:34 For example, if you look up the word Lazarus 46:37 in the original Greek, you're going to find 46:38 that there are two-- the two people, 46:42 two persons with the name of Lazarus in the Bible. 46:46 One is the real Lazarus, that's the person 46:48 that Jesus loved who died and he resurrected. 46:51 The other one is identified as an imaginary person. 46:53 That's right. So when you look up the Greek, 46:55 you'll find that this is-- this right here, 46:57 this Lazarus is an imaginary person. 46:59 He's part of a story. 47:00 He's part of a parable that was a story of custom 47:03 to the Jews and as well as something 47:05 Jesus was using here to-- to illustrate a point. 47:08 What was the point? Verse 14 says, 47:10 "That the Pharisees also who are covetous 47:13 heard all these things and they derided him." 47:16 The Pharisees were covetous because they believe 47:19 that riches meant God's blessing 47:22 and a sure line into the Kingdom of Heaven. 47:25 If you were wealthy, if you were rich, 47:27 if you had wealth, then you were blessed of God. 47:30 You were a righteous person. You were going to heaven. 47:31 If you were poor, then obviously 47:33 God was chasting you. You needed to repent. 47:35 And you were not going to the right place. 47:37 And so Jesus is using this parable 47:40 of the rich man and Lazarus, of a rich man who has plenty 47:43 and Lazarus who has nothing to turn that whole teaching, 47:47 that whole tradition, that whole false theology 47:49 on end to reverse it completely. 47:52 And when you think about the para--let's--let's look at 47:54 some of these things together here. 47:57 If you were to summarize the entire passage 48:00 or the entire story, it would be simply this. 48:03 There are those that have a lot, 48:06 that care less about those that have nothing. 48:10 But then there are those who have very little 48:13 and they care about those who have nothing. 48:16 And those who are wealthy if they would even let 48:20 the crumbs of their table be given to those who are without, 48:24 it will be more than those 48:26 who don't have anything, really have. 48:29 So the very ones that the wealthy are condemning 48:34 are the very ones that are taking care 48:35 of the needs of the people. Yes. 48:37 So let's put that into spiritual context. 48:39 Who were the wealthy in the Bible? 48:41 Those who were really rich or the ones 48:44 who had the truth of the gospel. Amen. 48:47 They had this message, this golden message for many, 48:50 many years, but they refused to share it with the Gentiles. 48:54 And because they categorized the Gentiles as heathens, 48:57 as those who just really were not worthy 48:59 of the Kingdom of God, yet the Gentiles 49:03 looked at the needs of the poor. 49:05 And the Gentiles, in this story, primarily are the-- 49:11 well, let's make it very clear. It sounds terrible. 49:14 But when Jesus used the word "dogs," 49:17 He was addressing an issue that was very prevalent in that day. 49:21 What did the dog do? The dog licked the sores of Lazarus. 49:26 So Lazarus represented those without. 49:30 And the Gentiles being represented by the dogs. 49:32 The Gentiles were more concerned about 49:33 the needs of the people than those who had much. 49:38 And they're wondering, who is He talking about? 49:40 And to identify who the rich are, 49:43 He says Abraham. So let's go from there. 49:47 You wanna add that-- Well, I love it 49:48 because when you're looking at this 49:49 you've got another category that I haven't seen before 49:51 and that is the Gentiles-- 49:53 a Syrophoenician woman was called the dog. 49:54 That's right, there you go. 49:55 So you're talking about how there are people 49:57 in the world who are more sympathetic 49:58 to the poor than religious people are. 50:00 And that is so powerful when you look at this-- 50:02 That's right. The story that God is-- 50:04 You know, John, just as an insight, 50:06 in heaven we are going to read the Bible 50:08 and we're going to see things in the Bible 50:10 that we've never seen before. 50:11 Things of the past are noticed. 50:12 We're gonna say, "Oh, how did I miss that?" 50:14 I think disciples of Christ were the same way when Jesus left. 50:17 How did we miss the teachings that He was giving us? 50:21 But building on that, yes, there's--there's the crumbs, 50:24 there's the dogs, there's all of these symbols. 50:26 All of these representative symbols in this parable. 50:30 For example, it says here that when Lazarus dies, 50:33 he goes to Abraham's bosom. 50:35 Now I am hoping there won't be a lot of people saved in heaven 50:38 according to the story because I'm sure 50:40 there's not a lot of room 50:41 in Abraham's bosom for a lot of people. That's right. 50:43 If we take the story literally, literally, we are limiting 50:47 the amount of people that can be saved 50:48 because there's not a lot of people 50:50 that can fit in Abraham's bosom, maybe one here and one there 50:52 and a couple of other squeezed in if they're little. 50:55 So we can't take it literally. 50:57 Abraham's bosom is a symbol of the place of the redeemed, 51:00 the symbol of heaven. 51:02 It's the place where Abraham is. 51:03 So obviously we wouldn't take that literally. 51:05 And, therefore, we need to be careful how much 51:08 we literalized this parable of Lazarus and the rich man. 51:12 Then it goes on to talk about body parts. I tell you. 51:16 It says that there's a tongue that's hot 51:19 and needs to be cooled by water. 51:21 There's a finger that needs to be dipped in some water. 51:25 When a person dies, do they lose certain body parts 51:28 or certain body parts go to Abraham's bosom, 51:30 the tongue and the fingers? 51:32 When you see a person in a casket, friends, 51:34 do you see part of their body there 51:36 and part of the body's not there? 51:38 No, there is no separation. 51:39 This actually would deny 51:40 what the truth of the state of the dead is. 51:42 We know that the body goes back to the dust from where it came. 51:46 So again we're using body parts here as symbols. 51:51 It's not literal. It's symbolic. 51:52 And the other thing about that to show it's not a-- 51:55 to show that this is can-- also speaking about 51:58 a future state of those who reject God. 52:01 They will be cast, body and soul--Yes. In hell. 52:06 And so the destruction of the wicked is not gonna be, 52:08 "Well, we'll preserve some things for eternal posterity." 52:14 No, that's not gonna be the case. 52:15 The destruction of the wicked will be-- 52:16 they'll be thrown entirely in the fires of hell. 52:20 Now I have a little thing of water here. 52:22 Now honestly, don't switch the camera 52:24 because we don't usually drink on camera. 52:26 But if I were to dip my finger in my own bottle of water... 52:31 I'm really thirsty, James. Ah, much better now. 52:35 That couldn't crunch my thirst in a comfortable environment. 52:38 Yes. Let alone in a hell. 52:41 Yeah, this is, and this is very comfortable environment. 52:42 It's quite air-conditioned in here. 52:44 It's quite cool, but I can't imagine 52:46 that coming close to a hot day, 52:49 never mind in a-- in a place of torment. 52:51 And when you think about even the-- 52:52 even the pictures there that's given, 52:55 it identifies them, first of all, 52:56 as the children of Abraham. 52:58 The other thing that is true about the story 52:59 with the parable, even though the parable 53:01 communicates this message. This is true. 53:03 There is a gulf fix between the righteous and the wicked. 53:06 The wicked cannot join the righteous. 53:08 I mean, the wicked who don't want to join-- 53:10 the righteous don't want to join the wicked 53:12 and the wicked can't join the righteous. 53:14 The gulf will be forever fixed. They can't pass back and forth. 53:17 But amazingly enough, you find, first of all, 53:19 the wealthy and they are the ones 53:20 that are a part of Abraham's lineage. 53:22 They even actually said that. 53:24 But verse 28 is a very significant one. 53:26 He says, "For I have five brothers." 53:28 Now what were the five brothers that the Jews had 53:31 that was so significant that they boasted about? 53:34 I have five brothers, the Pentateuch. 53:38 The five major books of the Bible, 53:40 was that the very writings 53:42 that they harbored only to themselves. 53:46 These five-- I have five. 53:49 And what happens is, when Jesus spoke to the Jews, 53:51 He so often said to them, 53:53 "You guys got this thing mixed up. 53:55 I'm the living word." John 5:39. 53:57 Read that for us real quickly. John 5:39. 54:00 We know, we know that, right? Search the scriptures. 54:03 Yes. "For in them you think you have eternal life, 54:05 and they are they which testify of me." 54:07 Okay, now get this. In them you think you have eternal life. 54:12 The Jews would rather read their five brothers. 54:15 All the five books of Genesis, Exodus, 54:17 Leviticus, Deuteronomy, Numbers. 54:19 They'd rather read those five books than accept 54:22 the Messiah who is standing right in front of them. 54:24 He said, "Search the scriptures, 54:26 for in them you think you have eternal life." Hello, guys? 54:31 The very book that you're spending 54:32 all your time on-- on is talking about Me. 54:34 And I'm right here and you're rejecting Me. 54:37 I don't want the Messiah. I want the books. Yes. 54:39 Give me the five brothers. 54:41 And then he goes on to the other thing. 54:43 He breaks it down even more. He says, look at verse 30. 54:49 Well, to verify that, Verse 20. 54:52 "I have five brothers, that he may testify to them, 54:55 lest they also come to this place of torment." 54:57 Abraham said to them. 'They have Moses and the Prophets. 55:00 Let them hear them.'" And then verse 30. 55:03 And he said, "No, father Abraham, 55:05 but if one goes to them from the dead, they will not repent. 55:09 Even if one rose from the dead, they will not repent." 55:12 Well, did one rise from the dead? 55:15 Yeah, and verse 30 says, "If one went unto them 55:18 from the dead, they will repent." 55:20 In other words that he was saying, 55:21 "Listen, if, you know, they'll repent 55:24 if they listen to you. They'll repent. 55:26 And, yes, one rose from the dead. 55:27 And did they repent? No. 55:29 Matter of fact, even when he rose the literal Lazarus, 55:33 that was when they made up their mind 55:35 that they must kill Jesus. 55:38 And here's where we made that connection. 55:39 Here's--here's the connection between 55:41 the real Lazarus and this imaginary person. 55:44 And the connection is profound when you think about it because 55:47 even though this is connecting to Lazarus, 55:49 it's also connecting to Jesus Christ. That's right. 55:51 And the story is saying that if you're not willing 55:54 to listen to the Books of Moses, if you will not hear them, 55:58 you will not hear even though someone, 56:01 Jesus Christ Himself is risen from the dead. 56:03 And that's exactly what we see taking place in this context. 56:06 You know, John, I think that this whole message 56:09 could be summarized by one verse in the Bible 56:13 and that's John 3:16. "For God so loved the world." 56:18 Everyone, okay. No one is separated. 56:20 No one is put in the special category. God loves us all. 56:24 We've all sinned and come short 56:25 of the glory of God, but God loves us all. 56:27 "God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten son 56:30 that whoever believes in Him would not perish." 56:34 Would not perish. Exactly. 56:36 Okay. If you don't believe in Jesus, you will perish. 56:38 You don't live on forever and ever in some eternal torment, 56:41 some burning place and you're tormented forever 56:44 and ever and ever and ever without end, infinitely. No. 56:47 There is a hell in the Bible, but that hell brings 56:51 a perishing to those who did not believe in Jesus Christ. 56:54 There's eternal life in Jesus 56:56 or there's perishing without Jesus Christ. 56:58 But God doesn't want anyone to perish. 56:59 "He so loved the world that He gave His only begotten son 57:01 that whoever believes in Him would not perish 57:03 but have everlasting life." 57:05 As a matter of fact, what we often say in our church, 57:07 in movement is, we believe in a hell 57:10 that's hotter than the one that many people believe in, 57:13 because our hell will actually consume the wicked. 57:16 The hell that is often taught in many other churches 57:18 will just cause the wicked to burn forever and ever and ever. 57:21 But the end of our program in not about the hell 57:23 that we will be destroyed in but the Christ 57:25 that will save us from that hell. 57:27 Friends, accept that Lord into your life and when He comes, 57:30 makes a house call on your life, 57:31 we pray that you'll be ready. God bless you. Amen. |
Revised 2014-12-17