Participants: John Lomacang (Host), James Rafferty
Series Code: HCL
Program Code: HCL120012
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00:01 Hello, friends, grab your Bible and a friend
00:03 and sit back as we explore God's word together 00:05 on this edition of "House Calls." 00:22 Welcome to another edition of the "House Calls" program 00:24 that you've tuned in last time too. 00:26 And hopefully if you're not new, 00:28 you are enjoying this program. 00:30 Well, my name is John Lomacang and I have to my right, 00:33 the "Son of Thunder," James. 00:35 Good to have you here, James. Good to be here, John. 00:37 You know, if you haven't caught that there's James and John, 00:39 the two Sons of Thunder. 00:41 And the only thunder we're gonna bring to you 00:43 is a thunder of the word of God today. 00:45 We're not gonna rain on your parade. 00:46 But get your Bibles, get your pens, 00:49 get your family members and sit down for the next hour 00:51 and walk through the Bible with us. 00:53 This is a program that we absolutely love. 00:56 I mean how many times do people get a chance to sit down 01:01 in soft comfortable chairs 01:03 and share the Bible for an hour, really? 01:06 That's a blessing, isn't it? 01:07 It's a perfect situation for all of us 01:09 because we love the word of God. 01:11 We love to study the word of God. 01:13 We are motivated by our viewers, the audience, you, 01:16 with the questions you bring in here to "House Calls," 01:19 to open our Bibles and search for answers 01:22 and understand what God's word 01:23 is speaking to us and to you, to your hearts. 01:26 And it's our privilege. 01:27 It's a blessing to be here. It's a blessing to be-- 01:29 and then again we have the comfortable chairs so that's-- 01:31 That's right. It makes a big difference. 01:33 But now that we have all the aesthetics in place, 01:35 we need the spirit of God to guide our hearts. 01:37 So, James, have a prayer for us? Amen. 01:39 Father, again, we open Your word 01:41 and we do it with thanksgiving, 01:43 with praise, and with reverence, 01:45 we recognize that Your word 01:47 is the sole answer to our questions, 01:49 the questions of the viewing audience. 01:52 And that You have promised Your spirit to give insight, 01:55 understanding, to instruct us and show us things to come. 02:00 We praise You for this. 02:01 We ask for the presence of Your spirit. 02:03 We ask for Your cleansing, for Your anointing. 02:05 And we thank you for this gift 02:07 that is freely bestowed upon us 02:09 because of the goodness and righteousness 02:11 and the merit of Jesus Christ. 02:12 We pray in His name. 02:14 Amen. Amen. 02:16 Praise the Lord for that. 02:17 You know, friends, we always like this part of the program. 02:19 We always begin with your questions and your comments. 02:23 Sometimes you do send wonderful comments. 02:25 Sometimes the comments are hard 02:27 to figure out where you're headed. 02:29 So try to make those questions and comments 02:31 as clear as you possibly can. 02:33 But if there's something going through your mind, 02:34 that we may have just brought to the surface, 02:37 you can send those questions or comments 02:39 to housecalls@3abn.org That's housecalls@3abn.org 02:44 O-r-g, I guess stands for organization. 02:46 And we do believe in organization here. 02:48 I guess that's what it means, right? 02:49 That's what it means, yeah. 02:51 And com is commercial, e-d-u is education. 02:54 Anyway, just remember o-r-g. 02:56 And we'd appreciate whatever you send to us. 02:58 Now we do have some questions. 02:59 Do you have one or two questions today? 03:01 I have one question today. 03:02 Well, I'll start with one and so we can go back and forth. 03:04 A very wonderful question. 03:06 I think the time is right that this question get answered 03:08 because we're living in a day and age 03:10 where certain things that are true and good in the Bible 03:13 are being misused and put in a improper context. 03:17 Let me lead into it with a story. 03:19 Many years ago, there was the little, 03:22 I don't know, nursery rhyme or whatever you call it the, 03:25 "Little red riding hood?" Remember that? Mm-hmm. 03:28 She's supposed to-- is this the one 03:30 where she was supposed to go to grandma's house? Mm-hmm. 03:31 And when she got there, 03:33 what does she find again, you remember? 03:34 A wolf dressed up in grandma's garb. 03:36 Oh, I tell you. 03:38 So she found the right house. 03:40 She found the right garb, but it wasn't her grandma. 03:44 Wrong person. Wrong person. 03:46 So with that story, now all clear in your mind, 03:50 here's the question, 03:52 "If a pastor who calls himself a prophet 03:57 says he has a message for me, should I believe him?" 04:02 Let's start with that part first. 04:04 That's good. That's a good question. 04:06 Well, you know, the reason 04:07 why this is a very important question is today, 04:10 there is a-- there is an explosion. 04:14 I was gonna use the word dearth, 04:16 but that's not the right word. 04:17 There is an explosion of people calling themselves 04:21 prophets and prophetesses. 04:23 And these terms are being used 04:24 more and more in religious circles. 04:27 There are television programs where people are saying, 04:30 "I could send you-- I could sell you this course 04:32 and you could learn how to be a prophet or prophetess." 04:35 And I was--one evening, I was--my wife and I, 04:39 we were just thumbing through the channels 04:41 and we saw the word prophet and we turned back. 04:44 And there were these three individuals sitting down 04:46 and one guy, he was Master Prophet. 04:50 And he had two women with him that were Master Prophetesses. 04:54 And they wanted to sell them the program. 04:56 How you can learn how to be 04:57 a master prophet or master prophetess? 05:00 And I discovered that they didn't want us to be a-- 05:05 they were not talking about p-r-o-p-h-e-t. 05:09 They were talking about p-r-o-f-i-t. Oh! 05:12 Profit. Okay. 05:14 These prophets were concerned about profits. Yes. 05:18 And so, many of the self appointed prophets nowadays-- 05:23 When the Bible uses the word "prophet" in the New Testament, 05:26 it doesn't use a word prophet very, very much. 05:28 But it uses the word preacher. 05:30 You know, when you pray for gift-- 05:35 pray for the gift of prophecy, but prophets and preachers 05:40 were synonymous in the New Testament a lot. 05:43 But prophets in the Old Testaments 05:45 were not always same as prophets in the New Testament. 05:47 And what I mean by that is Daniel wasn't a preacher, 05:52 but he was a prophet. 05:54 God had given him prophecies that which will unfold 05:57 under whatever domain he was in, 05:59 whether Babylon or the reign of the Medes and the Persians. 06:03 But he wasn't a preacher 06:05 like Peter, like James, like Paul. 06:09 He wasn't an itinerant preacher traveling from place to place. 06:13 But the answer to the question, 06:14 be careful that a person who calls himself a prophet 06:18 or a woman who calls herself a prophetess, 06:21 measure what they say by the word of God. 06:24 The word of God is the standard. 06:26 And do you know, James-- 06:28 I wanna read a few passages here. 06:29 But there are some individuals nowadays that will say, 06:31 "God just gave me a prophecy for you." 06:34 Have you heard of some of those? 06:35 Yeah, and I think it's really important for us to recognize-- 06:39 Some of the points you made here, John, 06:40 for example, the idea of profit, f-i-t versus prophet, h-e-t. 06:47 There was a man by the name of Simon Magnus 06:49 who wanted the gift of the Holy Spirit. 06:52 And the reason he wanted the gift the Holy Spirit was 06:53 because it was powerful. 06:55 He wanted the power of the Holy Spirit. 06:57 The Holy Spirit is the one that designates prophets. 07:00 The one that designates teachers, and preachers, 07:02 and pastors, and evangelists. 07:04 According to Ephesians Chapter 4, 07:06 it is the gift of the Holy Spirit 07:08 in our hearts that designates our calling. 07:11 And so Simon Magus wanted this gift 07:14 and he wanted to pay for it. 07:15 So right there when you're listening to-- 07:17 when you're taking in the idea 07:21 that if you pay a certain amount of money, I can give you this. 07:24 Paul rebuked him. 07:25 He was rebuked for wanting to pay 07:27 for the gift of the Holy Spirit. 07:29 We can't do that. 07:30 God anoints, God gifts. 07:33 The very word itself implies freely. 07:35 And so a gift is given, 07:37 bestowed not because we want to great, 07:39 not because we want to make money. 07:41 In fact, in the context of the Bible, 07:43 one of the greatest prophets, Jesus said, 07:45 "The greatest prophet that ever lived, 07:48 was a very poor man, his name was John the Baptist." 07:51 And John the Baptist, the Bible says, 07:53 was dressed in a camel's garment and he ate locust and honey. 07:58 Locust bean--the locust bean of the area of the middle-east, 08:02 even today the locust bean could be made into bread, 08:05 it's called St. John's Bread. 08:07 And if you had to eat locust which was-- 08:10 normally the locust bean was something 08:12 that was fed to animals. 08:14 And it was said that if you had to eat the locust bean, 08:16 you really needed to repent 08:17 because God was not blessing you. 08:20 And so John was a poor man. 08:22 He was a humble man. 08:24 And yet he was the greatest of the prophets. 08:27 So just that that indication right there of making prophet, 08:31 well, we know that Jesus even said, 08:32 "I have no place to lay my head" 08:34 tells us, should tell us 08:35 what is the purpose of the pastor? 08:38 What is his message for you in relation to the Bible? 08:41 How does it relate to the Bible? 08:43 How does it correlate to the word of God? 08:44 And that's important. The measuring rod is the key. 08:46 You know, when you want to say, 08:48 "Well, how wide should this wall be?" 08:52 You don't stand back and estimate it 08:53 when you're building somebody's house. 08:55 I mean really there may be somebody on this planet 08:57 that has that skill. I haven't met him or her yet. 09:00 But the Bible says, "Beware." 09:02 Let's look at a couple of passages. 09:03 First of all Matthew 7:15. 09:06 The Bible says, "Beware of false prophets, 09:09 who come to you in sheep's clothing." 09:13 Now this is really important 09:15 because sheep's clothing is in fact-- 09:18 if you put--I saw a picture of somebody, they drew a wolf. 09:23 Everything about the wolf looked like a sheep 09:25 except--this part of the face. The snout. 09:27 The snout and the eyes. 09:29 You know, the eyes that the wolf has. 09:30 But if it was walking away from me, 09:32 you'd think as a sheep except the ears and right here. 09:36 And it says, "Beware of false prophets 09:39 who come to you in sheep's clothing, 09:42 but inwardly they are ravenous or raving wolves." 09:46 And so when you think about a raving wolf, 09:48 not just a wolf, but a raving wolf. 09:51 Peter talks about how there will be those wolves 09:55 that will come in among you, not sparing the flock. 09:58 And there are lots of people 10:00 that have been led astray by false prophets. 10:02 But they are-- in many cases as Matthew says, 10:05 "False prophets and false Christs will rise 10:07 and will deceive many," Matthew 24:24. 10:09 So you have people that are prophets 10:11 in their own appointment. But they are not prophets 10:14 when it comes to God's appointment. Amen. 10:16 And ravening wolves, I like that because 10:19 ravening wolves are seeking, looking for victims. 10:23 And many times, they prey upon the weakest. 10:25 Right. They don't prey upon those who are strong. 10:27 So, friends, if you want to guard yourself 10:30 from false prophets, 10:31 become strong in the word of God. 10:33 Allow the word of God to be the foundation 10:35 of everything you believe and everything you follow. 10:37 And God will not allow 10:39 those of us to be led astray by false prophets. 10:41 Now in Matthew 24, Jesus warns us of false prophets 10:44 three times and He says, "It's possible that even 10:47 the very elect could be deceived." 10:49 But God will not allow us 10:51 to be deceived by false prophets. 10:52 If we will ground ourselves in the word of God, 10:54 become familiar with the word of God, 10:56 make Jesus our best friend and our sure counselor. 10:59 That doesn't mean we shouldn't listen to a message 11:01 but we need to test it. That's right. 11:02 We're going to hear all kinds of different messages. 11:04 And the Bereans were so faithful 11:06 that they even tested the words of Paul. That's right. 11:08 When Paul preached to them, they said, "Hmm, 11:10 this sounds, eh--this sounds pretty reasonable. 11:12 This sounds pretty--" "Let's go check it out." 11:14 "Let's go back and check it out and see if it's true." 11:16 And today, James, there are so many people, 11:18 they just don't check out the word of God. 11:20 One of the things I'm perturbed by is the fact 11:22 that people will say, "My pastor said," 11:26 rather than the word of God says. 11:28 Or "My church teaches," rather than the Bible teaches. 11:31 And so what we have nowadays is we have the cereal aisle. 11:35 Churches have become nothing more than a cereal aisle. 11:37 In a grocery store? In a grocery store. Okay. 11:39 You go down that aisle, you know, you want 11:41 some post super sugar crisp, somebody else want, 11:44 you know, corn flakes, 11:45 somebody else wants Captain Crunch, 11:47 somebody wants hot cereals, somebody wants-- 11:49 Fruit loops. Fruit loops. 11:51 Okay, there are some profits out of eating fruit loops. 11:55 Okay, I got that picture in my mind now. 11:57 But truly they're-- it's sugar coated. 12:00 But there is no nutrition there. 12:02 And so to take the fruit loops to its ultimate extreme. 12:05 There are messages that make you feel good, 12:07 but there is no scriptural nourishment at all. 12:11 And so I remember, 12:13 I was giving a prophecy seminar-- 12:14 and I'll go back to some Bible verses here. 12:17 I was giving a prophecy seminar 12:18 and when I started this Revelation seminar 12:20 just about a week later in the time 12:22 that I was giving a series of meetings, 12:24 five other churches started a meeting. 12:26 And the largest church in town said they were having 12:29 a prophet come to town. 12:30 Well, on one of our nights off, I went to hear 12:32 what this prophet had to say. 12:35 It had nothing to do with word of God. 12:37 It had to do with just calling people out of the audience 12:40 and saying, "Is there a James Rafferty 12:43 in the audience today? James Rafferty? 12:45 God told me that He is gonna anoint you with power 12:49 from on high and you're gonna be a powerful instrument 12:53 in the hand of God." 12:55 Oh, wow, you needed to have traveled 12:57 180 miles just to tell me that. 12:59 You know, now, sounds good... Yeah. 13:03 But what happens is they consider that a prophecy 13:07 when in fact-- 13:09 It's a flattery. It's a flattery. 13:10 And people say, "Oh." 13:12 Then there's somebody else-- and I went to another church-- 13:14 Benny Hinn, you remember Benny Hinn? 13:16 He is very popular. When he was in Florida, 13:17 my mother-in-law lived about a mile away from his church. 13:20 On the way back from a store, my wife and I-- 13:23 my wife and her cousin and I, we just--all these cars, 13:26 so we pulled in, let's just go peek. 13:28 You know, we didn't go-- we are not by the way going 13:30 to Benny Hinn services to see what's going on. 13:32 Whew! And you get me worried there for a second, John. 13:35 I was starting to worry about you. 13:36 So let's go peek to see what's going on here. 13:38 So we went in. 13:39 In the back of the church, it was just--it was just 13:42 replete with wheelchairs and people on respirators, 13:46 you know, people that couldn't move 13:47 and they would-- just all contorted. 13:49 And this was a healing miracle service. 13:52 The people that were being healed or people-- 13:55 "Come up and I'm gonna touch your ear and from this day on, 13:57 you're gonna able to hear God as He speaks to you. 14:00 I'm gonna touch your voice, so you can sing 14:01 more songs to the glory of God." 14:03 And I'm thinking, what ever happened 14:04 to these people in the back here? 14:06 That really need healing. 14:07 Not one of them were invited forward. 14:09 Not one of them. 14:11 They were all sent back home 14:12 in their wheelchairs as they came. 14:14 False prophets. 14:15 But now let's go to the other side of that, 14:17 because sometimes false healings will take place. 14:21 Yes. Look at Matthew 24:24. Read that for us. 14:25 Matthew 24. Yeah, Matthew 24:24. 14:28 Verse 24. Yeah. 14:32 It says here, "For there shall arise false Christs, 14:34 and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders, 14:38 insomuch that, if it were possible, 14:40 they shall deceive the very elect." 14:42 Great signs and wonders, just like Revelation 13. 14:46 They perform miracles, signs, and wonders, 14:48 and people think, "Well, aren't signs and wonders 14:50 an indication that God is with them?" 14:52 Deuteronomy 13:1-5, I want to read that with you. 14:56 And this is a powerful passage. 15:00 Deuteronomy 13:1-5, I'm gonna go ahead 15:03 and bring this up in the King James Version here 15:09 so that we could read that together. 15:11 I want to be able to stay on the same page with you. 15:13 Here we are. 15:15 Deuteronomy 13 beginning with the verse 1, 15:18 "If there arises among you a prophet, 15:23 or a dreamer of dreams, and-- giveth thee a sign or a wonder." 15:29 Usually that's all people want. 15:31 Even the Jewish had to show us a sign. Right. 15:33 "And the sign or the wonder come to pass, 15:37 wherefore he spake unto thee, saying, 15:40 Let us go after other gods, which thou hast not known, 15:44 and let us serve them." Get this. 15:47 "Thou shall not hearken unto the words of that prophet, 15:50 or that dreamer of dreams, 15:51 for the Lord your God proveth you." 15:54 Or is testing you. 15:55 "To know whether you love the Lord your God 15:58 with all your heart and with all your soul. 16:00 Ye shall walk after the Lord your God, 16:02 and fear him, and keep his commandments, 16:04 and obey his voice, and ye shall serve him, 16:07 and cleave unto him." Read verse 5 down to-- 16:11 "And that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams, 16:13 shall be put to death, because he has spoken 16:16 to turn you away from the Lord your God, 16:18 which brought you out of the land of Egypt, 16:20 and has redeemed you out of the house of bondage, 16:22 to thrust thee out of the way which the Lord 16:26 thy God commanded thee to walk in. 16:28 So shalt thou put the evil away from the midst of thee." 16:35 Isn't that just amazing? 16:37 So what's happening here is a lot of times 16:39 when people come up with these prophecies, 16:41 here is a big text. 16:43 This is a powerful text, 1 John 2:3 and 4, 16:47 "And hereby we do know that we know him, 16:50 if we keep his commandments. 16:52 He that saith, I know him, 16:53 and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, 16:56 and the truth is not in him." 16:57 Prophet, are you a commandment keeper? 17:00 No. Then you're not a prophet. 17:02 Wow, that's pretty cut and dry. 17:05 Isaiah 8:20, "To the law and to the testimony, 17:09 if they speak not according to this word, 17:11 it's because there is how much light?" No. 17:13 "No light in them." Zippo. 17:16 So what happens nowadays, people calling themselves 17:19 prophets are not in fact prophets 17:23 as God's word measures them. 17:25 One more thought, John. Sure. 17:27 And this just came to my mind as you were talking. 17:30 Would it be fair to say that most of the prophets 17:34 of the Bible brought a message of rebuke 17:38 rather than a message of flattery? 17:40 Would it be fair to say that? Wonderful, wonderful. 17:42 God raised up prophets for a specific person. 17:44 God raised up prophets to bring a message to His people 17:47 because they were going in a wrong direction. 17:49 They needed guidance. They needed help. 17:51 They needed to be awakened. 17:52 This is John the Baptist, of course. That's right. 17:54 Jesus was also not just the son of God, a Messiah, 17:56 but he was a great prophet. 17:58 And so when you look at the Old Testament, 17:59 you see Elijah, you see Jeremiah, you see Ezekiel, 18:01 you see Isaiah, you see Amos, you see Hosea, 18:04 you see Moses, you see all of these great prophets. 18:07 And what was the basis of their emphasis in their ministry? 18:11 It was to correct, to rebuke, to exhort 18:13 with all longsuffering and doctrine, 18:15 and which is what we were told in the New Testament, 18:17 "Preach the word." 18:18 And so the characteristics of a prophet, 18:22 biblically speaking, is a man, a woman 18:25 who is going to be directing to the law into the testimony. 18:27 A man and a woman who is going to-- 18:29 is raised up to correct and rebuke and admonish 18:33 God's people and help them, to not to flatter them. 18:37 Very rarely if ever-- I'm just trying to think, 18:39 I'm trying to think, I'm trying to think. 18:41 Where is a prophet in the Bible that is flattering? 18:43 I know that the false prophets-- all through the Old Testament, 18:46 the false prophets consistently flattered. Right. 18:49 Consistently say, "Oh, yes, King, 18:51 you're the greatest and all. 18:52 Yes, you do that. God is gonna bless you 18:54 and He's gonna give you victory." 18:56 These were the false prophets. 18:58 But the true prophets of God, many times lost their lives, 19:01 had to flee for their lives because their message 19:03 was so direct and so strong and rebuking and chastening, 19:10 the leaders or those people they were speaking to. 19:13 That's right. And so you have to be very, very careful 19:15 that the message you're getting is one 19:16 that of a butterfly sugar-coated, 19:20 "Oh, huh, I feel really good." 19:21 And running in the opposite direction if a prophet says, 19:24 "God has sent me with a message to make you 19:27 wealthy and rich and famous if, in fact, you buy my program 19:31 for five easy payments of $150." 19:35 You know, that's where it really comes down to. 19:38 And they rake people. 19:39 I don't want to start mentioning names. 19:41 There are those who go to-- and I think you've made 19:43 a very important point I want to revisit. 19:45 Many people that are not scripturally sound, 19:49 many people that have not become familiar with their Bible 19:51 become easy prey-- Yes. 19:53 For these people. With much fair speech, 19:56 the Bible says they deceive the simple. 19:58 And that's what happens. So a guy comes 20:00 and throws a single verse 20:01 and then he just for the rest of the night 20:03 makes a person's foot, like, re-grew 20:05 or they throw away canes and all these. 20:07 So be very careful. And lastly, there is a story. 20:11 It's in the Book of 1 King. 20:12 It's just simply under the category of the Man of God. 20:16 God sent one of His prophets, 20:19 The Man of God, He sent Him with a message to go on an errand. 20:22 He said "When you go on the errand and you deliver 20:24 this message, when you come back, 20:26 don't stop at anybody's house. 20:29 Don't eat with them. Don't talk to them. 20:33 Don't entertain them. 20:36 It's not gonna be good if you do that." 20:37 Just go straight home. 20:38 Go straight home. Just go straight home. 20:40 I remember that story. That's a good story. 20:41 And so I preach the sermon entitled, 20:43 "I am prophet also". 20:45 In this story, He met a man along the way 20:48 and the Man of God said to him, 20:50 "But the Lord told me not to go home with you, 20:53 not to eat bread with you, not to talk with you, 20:56 not even-- not to go to your place. 21:00 That's what God told me to do." And here were the words 21:02 that were used to deceive this prophet. 21:05 He says in verse 18 of 1 Kings. 21:08 1 Kings 13:18, he said unto him, 21:13 "I am a prophet also, as you have said. 21:17 I am a prophet just like you are. 21:20 And an angel," now the reason 21:22 I brought this up is because people often say, 21:25 "I got a divine prophecy. An angel gave me a prophecy." 21:30 Well, Paul dealt with that. What did he say? 21:32 If a gospel comes-- 21:34 Yeah, "With an another angel, 21:35 another spirit preaching another Jesus." 21:37 Right. "Don't believe it. 21:38 I'm afraid that you will, but don't. Don't accept it." 21:41 So when they start citing a divine origin 21:44 that contradicts the word of God, 21:47 don't believe it. 21:49 This prophet said, "An angle spoke to me 21:51 by the word of the Lord." 21:54 It wouldn't sound like I'm preaching. 21:56 Yes, but that you are and we need to because 21:58 again Jesus warned us three times 22:00 in the Book of Matthew, Signs of the Times, 22:02 End Time Events, false prophets, false prophets, false prophets. 22:05 And one of the words there is religious teachers 22:08 those who feel like they are anointed in the Lord. 22:10 And I like the process here in 1 Kings 22:12 because his first reply was no. 22:15 "I may not go back with you", verse 8. 22:17 And then in verse 16, he softens a little bit. 22:20 In other words, friends, sometimes these people, 22:23 these false teachers, these false religious leaders, 22:25 they're gonna be working on you, working on you. 22:27 And if you keep going, I mean I'm glad that, John, 22:29 you only went to that meeting once. 22:31 Because you keep going and keep going 22:32 and you could be taken in by all of the power 22:34 and the influence and the crowd. 22:36 That's why I like Jesus' voice, 22:38 because it's like the voice of a multitude. 22:39 That's right. It's like the voice 22:41 of many waters, symbolic of people. 22:43 Jesus' voice is strong enough to help us to resist 22:45 the multitude and the crowd that come against us many times. 22:48 That's right. And so then he weakens, 22:50 verse 16 in 1 Kings 13. He said, "I may not return." 22:55 First, "I will not," then, "I may not return." 22:58 And then in verse 18, you know, He says, 23:01 "Well, I am a prophet also." 23:03 So there is the new light, you know, the new--"oh, 23:05 I didn't realize-- you're a prophet? 23:06 Oh, there are some more-- oh, okay. 23:08 "And then as He moves on-- 23:10 End--look at the end of verse 18. 23:11 What does it say at the end of verse 18, 23:13 the last five words? "But He lied unto Him." Mm-hmm. 23:15 "But He lied unto Him." 23:16 And then of course verse 19, "He went back." 23:19 "He went back." That is a sad, 23:21 sad story right there because that tells me that this prophet 23:25 was not willing to live by the truth 23:27 that God had given him. He went back. 23:29 He backslid on the strong statement that he had made, 23:34 "I will not go." 23:35 And God wants us to hold to His word 23:38 and not allow anything to come in, test, 23:41 but not allow anything to come in that would cause us 23:43 to turn back from the word that He's given us. 23:46 That's right. And so be very, very careful. 23:47 So--in a nutshell, you asked the question, 23:49 we gave you this tremendously long answer, 23:51 but very important, very imperative. 23:55 Should I listen to a person who says he is a prophet 23:57 and he has a message from God? 24:00 Measure what that person says by the word of God 24:03 and not the single scripture 24:04 but many places put it all together. 24:08 Amen. And then measure with somebody else 24:11 because that's what the word of God is for, 24:12 it's for to some-- 24:14 it's for proof, for reproof, for correction, 24:18 for instruction, and righteousness. 24:19 For doctrine, for reproof, for correction, 24:21 for instruction, and righteousness. 24:23 Measure by the word of God. If at all it conflicts, 24:27 that man is not a prophet of God. 24:29 And must--and then secondly he must be a commandment keeper. 24:33 All right. What you have for us, James? 24:35 Well, this question is coming to us 24:38 from a listener in South Africa. Wow. 24:42 He says, "I've hit a proverbial wall 24:45 and look to you to help me breakthrough. 24:46 I've read the verses of Revelation 19-21 24:51 over and over again and there is something 24:54 for the love of me that I am missing. 24:56 The verses read as follows, 'And I saw the beast 24:59 and the kings of the earth and their armies 25:01 gathering together to make war against him 25:03 who sat on the white horse and against his army. 25:06 Then the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet 25:09 who worked signs in his presence by which he deceived those.' 25:12 Keyword right there, 'Deceived those who received 25:15 the mark of the beast and those who worshiped its image. 25:18 These two, the beast and the false prophet, 25:20 were cast alive into the lake burning with brimstone. 25:25 The rest were killed with the sword which proceeded 25:27 from the mouth of him who sat on the white horse, 25:29 and all the birds were filled with their flesh.' 25:31 Then he goes on. 25:33 "My dilemma is, 'These two which were thrown alive 25:36 into the burning lake.' 25:38 They are there that is in that burning lake 25:41 before Satan is thrown into the lake as my Bible reads." 25:45 "The devil who deceived them was cast into the lake of fire 25:49 brimstone with the beast and the false prophet are." 25:51 Keyword again, "The devil that deceived them." 25:53 That's Revelation 20:10. Right. 25:56 "So as you can see there's something that I'm not seeing. 25:58 I've written before on this subject, 26:00 haven't received your reply. 26:01 And I was looking forward to hearing your answer to this. 26:04 Kind regards, David from Gordon's Bay, South Africa. 26:07 Okay. Very good question. 26:09 And I would like to just give a summary answer 26:13 and then look at a few Bible texts. Right. 26:15 The summary answer is this that the false prophet 26:19 and the beast are thrown into the lake of fire before Satan 26:24 is because their deceptive power is broken before Satan's 26:29 deceptive power is broken. That's right. 26:31 Fire in the Bible-- the lake of fire in the Bible, 26:33 while it's literal, it's also symbolic. 26:35 And what we're seeing here is that when Jesus comes, 26:38 the deceptive power of the false prophet 26:41 and the beast are broken. 26:42 The world sees that they have been deceived. 26:44 However, it is not until after the 1,000 years 26:48 that the deceptive power of Satan is broken 26:50 because we are told that after the 1,000 years, 26:52 he goes out to deceive the nations even again. 26:55 That's right. And so it's not till after that 1,000 years 26:59 that the deceptive power of Satan is broken. 27:01 And therefore, Satan is thrown into this lake of fire, 27:03 this lake of judgment. 27:05 It's a full revelation of the judgment of God. 27:08 Now the first verse that I'd like us 27:09 to look at is in Romans. 27:12 John, if you want to read these, 27:14 these verses, Romans Chapter 12. 27:16 Romans 12:19-21, I think will be good. 27:22 Okay. It says, "'Beloved, do not avenge yourself, 27:26 but rather give place to wrath. 27:29 For it is written, vengeance is mine, 27:31 I will repay,' says the Lord. 27:34 'Therefore if your enemy is hunger, feed him, 27:36 if he thirst, give him drink. 27:38 For in so doing you will heap coals of fire on his head. 27:43 Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.'" 27:48 Okay. This verse is pointing out that fire 27:53 is not always literal in the Bible. Okay. 27:56 The heaps of coal. I think I got that. 27:58 Now this verse also tells us 28:00 that this is a verse of judgment, 28:03 of vengeance, of wrath. 28:05 There is a judgment and vengeance and a wrath 28:07 that is going to come upon the beast and the false prophet. 28:10 The lake of fire, they are going to be cast 28:11 into that lake of fire. 28:13 They are going to experience this judgment, 28:15 this burning at the second coming of Jesus Christ. 28:18 They experience that before the devil. 28:21 The devil is still left off the hook so to speak. 28:24 It's not that they're in a literal lake of fire 28:26 burning for 1,000 years. That's true. 28:27 And then at the end of the 1,000 years, 28:29 the devil joins them. 28:30 It's that their deceptive power is broken. 28:32 They are judged by God. 28:34 They experience His vengeance and His wrath 28:36 and they do this, notices Revelation Chapter 20-- 28:41 no, Revelation Chapter 17. 28:43 Revelation Chapter 17 and verse--begin with verse 17. 28:48 Let's read Revelation 17. 28:50 Actually begin with verse 16. 28:52 Revelation 16 and 17. 28:57 John, would you like to read those verses? 28:58 Okay. "And the ten horns which you saw on the beast, 29:02 these will hate the harlot, make her desolate and naked, 29:08 eat her flesh, and burn her with fire. 29:12 For God has put it into their hearts to fulfill His purpose 29:16 to be of one mind, and to give their kingdom to the beast, 29:20 until the words of God are fulfilled." 29:23 Okay. So here we see very clearly 29:26 that those who support the beast, 29:28 those who support the false prophet, 29:30 are gonna burn her with fire. 29:32 That's right. They're gonna eat her flesh. 29:33 Now that's not literal. 29:34 That's not talking literally, of course. 29:36 What we're seeing here in conjunction 29:37 with Romans chapter 12 is a judgment. 29:40 According to verse 17, God is putting his will 29:42 in their hearts to fulfill His will. 29:45 So as judgment is taking place and what Revelation Chapter 20 29:49 is telling us is that judgment comes first 29:51 to the beast and the false prophet. 29:53 They are unmasked. 29:55 Their deceptions were seen. 29:56 The kings of the earth see and they turn against her. 29:59 They bring judgment against her. 30:01 In fact, in Revelation Chapter 18, 30:03 it talks about Babylon's fall. 30:05 And it talks about how that she is rewarded, 30:07 verse 6, double. In other words, not only 30:10 is she going to receive this judgment at the second coming 30:13 but she's also going to be in the lake of fire 30:15 and receive a full judgment after 1,000 years is finished. 30:19 So we have this judgment, verse 8, 30:21 "Then her plagues shall come in one day, 30:24 death, and mourning, and famine 30:25 and she shall be utterly burned with fire 30:28 for strong is the Lord God who judges her." 30:30 What verse are you in? 30:31 That's Revelation Chapter 18:6 and 8. Okay. 30:36 Revelation Chapter 18: 6 and 8. 30:38 So, you have this representation of judgment 30:41 in the context of fire, the lake of fire. 30:43 It's not the literal lake, 30:45 you know, let's take our boat out to the lake 30:46 and let's go to lake. Right. 30:47 This is symbolic in a sense. 30:49 There is going to be literal fire 30:50 but the fire also symbolizes God's judgment 30:53 that will come to the beast and the false prophet 30:56 before it comes to the devil. 30:58 It will come to the beast and the false prophet 30:59 at the second coming of Christ prior to the 1,000 years. 31:03 Just at the beginning of the 1,000 years 31:04 and then after the 1,000 years, they're resurrected. 31:07 The beast and the false prophet are resurrected 31:09 but it's the devil that goes forth to deceive the nations. 31:12 They've been neutered if you will. 31:14 They've lost their ability to deceive the nations. 31:17 The nations have burnt them with fire. 31:20 The judgment has come to them 31:21 but the devil still has that power. 31:23 All right, they've meet the arch deceiver, 31:25 the one that used them will now his final deception. 31:29 You know, that's an amazing but a sad thing 31:32 because when you realize that you've just been unmasked 31:36 and your power has been broken 31:39 yet the power over you hasn't yet been broken. 31:43 That's a really amazing thing. 31:44 A person will get delivered from something 31:46 they have to recognize that the power that they're-- 31:48 the power that has been taken from them 31:51 has not always been taken from those around them. 31:55 That's why some people that go to they get incarcerated, 31:58 they serve time for selling whatever, 32:02 some illegal substance. 32:04 And they come out and they may have been rehabilitated 32:08 but they put themselves in the same environment. 32:11 For around people that have not lost that power, 32:13 that have not lost that 32:15 tenacious desire to still deceive. 32:18 And before you know it they're back on same boat again. 32:20 So those who are-- the false prophet, 32:22 their power has been broken 32:24 but there's got to be one last unity, 32:28 the branch and the wines. 32:32 You know, the root and the branch to be very clear. 32:35 Satan, the root and the branch is all those, 32:38 they connect in this final hurrah. 32:42 So, in fact, be very, very careful 32:44 because the judgments of God are very true. 32:47 That was such a good illustration, John. 32:49 That prison incarceration illustration of coming out. 32:54 You know, the people after the 1,000 years, 32:56 they've come out of the deception 32:58 of the false prophet and the beast, 32:59 and now they're coming to the influence of the one 33:02 who used them to deceive. Right. 33:04 And again, because they are in that same environment 33:06 they refuse to remove themselves 33:08 in the environment of these powers 33:10 and accept Jesus Christ as their savior. 33:12 They again go forth under the deception of Satan 33:14 one final time against the city of God. 33:16 We don't want anyone of you 33:18 to be a part of that group of people, 33:20 we want each one that's listening right now 33:22 to accept Jesus Christ as their personal savior 33:25 and to be free from the bondage 33:26 and the influence that takes us in that direction of deception. 33:30 Entangled once again. 33:32 And the ladder end shall be worse for them 33:35 then in the beginning. So be very careful. 33:37 I think we'll probably stop there. 33:39 I had one about what happens to souls after death. 33:42 But I think we'll get a chance to cover that in our topic. 33:43 Okay. We're gonna talk about that 33:45 but thank you for your questions and comments. 33:47 We do appreciate that and as you can see we spent some time today 33:50 on two very important questions. 33:51 Both of them significant in context to eternity 33:55 as well as what's happening in a very deceptive world today. 33:58 If you've anymore questions you'd like to send to us, 34:00 send those questions to housecalls@3abn.org 34:04 housecalls@3abn.org and we do appreciate all you do 34:09 for this ministry to continue going forward. 34:12 And even if we've said something 34:13 that you want further clarification on, 34:16 say, "Remember when you said such and such, 34:18 could you make that even clear for me?" 34:20 We do appreciate that very, very much. Amen. 34:22 Well, James, take us into our topic. 34:24 We've been talking about hell and its context, 34:31 and whether or not the devil is in charge of it 34:34 and what's going to happen to people. 34:36 Are there gonna be souls withering in the fires of hell. 34:39 Just kind of catapult us into that. 34:40 I think one of the key verses 34:41 that is misunderstood in this subject 34:43 is in Revelation Chapter 14. Okay. 34:46 It's in the context of the Three Angels messages. 34:48 Revelation Chapter 14 brings us the everlasting gospel. 34:52 I call it God's last message for the world. 34:55 It has a message that comes through Three Angels. 34:58 And these Three Angels connect together. 35:01 We're on Three Angels broadcasting network 35:03 and so we find a very close connection 35:06 with the messages of Revelation Chapter 14. 35:09 But there's a little bit of difficulty with one of them 35:12 that people have because of the wording, 35:14 the verbiage of the message. 35:17 It's Revelation Chapter 14 35:19 and we're going to begin here in verse 9. 35:22 And I am going to read this 35:23 and I want you to listen very carefully 35:25 to what these verses are saying 35:26 because I think you'll catch the context of it. 35:29 I think you'll catch the message if you listen very carefully 35:32 and then as we explain this throughout the Bible. 35:36 Revelation Chapter 14:9, 35:37 "And the third angel followed them, 35:39 saying with a loud voice, 35:40 'If any man worship the beast and his image, 35:44 and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand. 35:47 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, 35:49 which is poured out without mixture 35:51 into the cup of his indignation, 35:53 and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone 35:57 in the presence of the holy angels, 36:00 and in the presence of the Lamb." 36:03 Verse 11, "And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up 36:08 for ever and ever, and they have no rest day nor night, 36:14 who worship the beast and his image, 36:16 and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.' 36:21 That's right. Now these are difficult texts, John. 36:23 I mean when you read them right out you think, 36:25 "hmm, they're gonna be tormented for ever and ever." 36:27 If you just read the text and just take a simple 36:29 plain view of the text, you can conclude that hell, 36:34 the place where people are burned, 36:35 you know, the place that Satan is in charge of, 36:38 where he's stoking the fire, hell is gonna continue 36:40 for ever and ever and ever and ever and ever. Right. 36:43 Is that really what the Bible is teaching here? No. 36:46 And the concept of the stoking of the fires of hell 36:48 by Satan is even a misunderstanding 36:51 or misapplication because Satan himself is gonna be affected 36:55 by the fires of hell rather than 36:57 in charge of the fires of hell. Yes. 36:59 Thank God he's not in charge of anything. Amen. 37:03 I like it when Jesus called him 37:04 the prince of the power of the air. 37:08 He was in fact-- he did display much of his power 37:11 though when he poured out his wrath 37:12 upon the household of Job. Yes. 37:15 The tornados, the hurricanes, the fire that fell, 37:18 and many times--and the reason I cite that briefly is, 37:21 lot of times, even the insurance companies call 37:23 those the "Act of God." 37:25 Well, in fact, God is not a God 37:27 who sends destruction, not in that context. 37:30 Now, one day the destruction will come, 37:32 the strange act of God to destroy sinners and sin, 37:36 and repopulate earth and restore to its original condition. 37:41 And you know something, John, there's a difference 37:43 between the way that God works 37:44 and the way that Satan works. That's right. 37:46 Anytime God sends a judgment, He warns first. 37:49 Always, warns first. And it's redemptive. 37:51 Noah and the flood, the angels to Sodom and Gomorrah. 37:53 It's redemptive. 37:55 And even now He's warning of the plagues. 37:57 These are the last plagues in the wrath of God. 37:59 But Satan in Job-- 38:00 Satan does it without warning. Destructive. 38:03 Just comes and destroys without any warning whatsoever. 38:06 God, it's redemptive. 38:07 In fact, there are times when God warns 38:09 and if we will respond, Jonah and Nineveh, 38:12 He forgoes, He pulls back. 38:14 Satan would never do that. 38:16 So there's a clear difference here 38:18 between God and Satan. 38:19 Like a new-- like any loving parent. 38:21 You know, you have children, don't you? 38:22 There are times when you say, 38:24 "Okay, don't do that or else..." 38:27 they don't do it, then the "or else..." 38:28 And I don't like the "or else." 38:30 Exactly. They don't like the "or else" 38:31 but I don't like the "or else" either. 38:32 I saw something the other day. 38:34 I forgot what it was, where two little girls 38:37 were just really at each other, at each other, 38:38 at each other, at each other and they were too young 38:40 to understand what the parent-- so the parent put together 38:42 some very artistic way of keeping them disciplined. 38:45 They said, "If you can't get along as cousins... 38:48 okay, that's it, I am calling the cousin police 38:51 and they're gonna arrest you for disobedience." 38:53 And these girls are too young, 38:55 "No, we don't want to go to jail. No, please." 38:59 "Then are you gonna love each other?" 39:00 "We're gonna love each other." 39:01 They ran to each other and hug each other and just say, 39:03 "I love you, cousin. I love you, cousin." 39:05 So, "Cousin police, I don't think we need you now. 39:09 I think they..." They were too young. 39:11 It was, so to speak, their Santa Claus. 39:13 But the parents use that in a redemptive way. 39:15 Yes, in a redemptive way. 39:16 They say, "You ought to love each other." 39:18 And they made up their own way, 39:19 you know, we'll hold the switch up as parent or 39:21 belt or say, timeout. 39:22 But they used the "cousin police." 39:24 And I can relate to that. 39:26 Especially the timeout one because my kids were different. 39:29 And what worked for one did not work for the other 39:31 and for one very social, very outgoing, 39:34 timeouts were huge punishment, you know? 39:36 Physical, no. Spanking, no. 39:38 No, just got firm-- but a timeout, 39:41 "Oh, no, no." So, yes. 39:43 I remember that. Yes. 39:44 Because timeouts are not-- 39:46 "Well, you've got 40 more minutes." 39:49 "Mom, Dad, please." "Nope, that was your decision." 39:53 And so when you think of the fires 39:54 that are talked about here in Revelation, 39:57 the process is so vitally important for us 39:59 to continue to think in this context. 40:02 The process of the judgments that will be poured out, 40:05 the wrath of God, the fires that will consume the wicked, 40:09 the process is not eternal. The results-- 40:13 Are eternal. Are eternal. 40:15 I would cite the Book of Jude, 40:17 some may be familiar with this passage, 40:19 but in the Book of Jude, only having one book, 40:23 it speaks about the eternal nature 40:25 of the judgments of God. Jude 1:7. 40:29 Just before Revelation. Right before Revelation. 40:32 "As Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them 40:36 in similar manner to these, having given themselves 40:39 over to sexual immorality and gone after strange flesh, 40:44 or set forth as an example, 40:47 suffering the vengeance of eternal fire." 40:51 Now you'll find in some translations 40:53 as eternal punishment. 40:55 That's exactly what it is. 40:57 It's not eternal punishing, it's eternal punishment. 41:00 Because we know today that Sodom and Gomorrah 41:03 are not burning any longer. Yes. 41:05 So the process is not what's eternal, 41:08 the results are eternal. 41:09 And I like this too because the context of Revelation 14 41:13 tells us that hell does not take place 41:16 under the supervision of Satan. 41:18 Hell takes place in the very presence of God 41:21 and the angels. That's right. 41:22 So this destruction is not something 41:24 that Satan is in charge of. 41:26 This destruction, this punishment, 41:28 this judgment is something that God is in charge of. 41:31 It is in the presence of the Holy Angels 41:33 and in the presence of the Lamb. 41:36 And this is really significant because we are going to be 41:39 in the presence of the Holy Angels 41:41 and in the presence of the Lamb for all eternity. 41:44 So this verse cannot be telling us 41:46 that hell is an eternally burning place 41:49 because that would mean that those who are lost 41:51 are going to be in the same place 41:53 that the saved off for all eternity. 41:55 The fires of hell, the experience of hell, 41:59 the judgment of hell is something that takes place 42:02 in God's presence because it is His presence 42:04 that to sin is a consuming fire. 42:07 To sin whatever found, God is a consuming fire. 42:09 In fact, we're told that in the Book of Hebrews chapter 13. 42:13 So I like this, this idea of the place of hell 42:16 and also the idea of the-- the extent, 42:20 in other words how long hell lasts, 42:23 for ever and ever and ever. 42:25 You know, I like this phrase because why we misunderstand it 42:29 sometimes that Bible clearly defines it, 42:32 I think about, for example, 42:34 the Book of Jonah. Oh, yeah. 42:36 Jonah and the whale. 42:37 Jonah and the fish and-- I say whale 42:39 because the whale is the biggest animal 42:41 that we think could have swallows Jonah. 42:42 We just--the Bible just says simply it was a fish. 42:45 But if you look at the prophecy of Jonah 42:47 and that book is found in the Minor Prophets 42:51 which are just before Matthew. 42:52 So if you get to Matthew 42:54 and you start looking for the Book of Jonah. 42:57 Going backwards, you're gonna go to Malachi, 42:59 and you gonna go to Zachariah, and Haggai, 43:01 and Habakkuk, and Nehemiah, and Micah 43:04 and you're gonna find the Book of Jonah. 43:06 It's right there, going to left of the Book of Matthew. 43:09 And Jonah is swallowed by this fish. 43:11 He is down in the belly of this fish 43:12 for three days and three nights. 43:15 But that's not the way he describes it. 43:17 He doesn't describe himself being in the belly of this fish 43:20 for three days and three nights. 43:22 You know, what he says? 43:23 He says here in verse 6 of Jonah Chapter 2. 43:27 He says, "I went down to the bottoms of the mountains, 43:31 the earth with her bars was about me forever." 43:35 Now what's interesting about this is verse 2. 43:39 Jonah is praying to the Lord in this context. 43:42 And he said, "I cried by reason of mine 43:44 affliction unto the Lord, He heard me, 43:46 out of the belly of hell cried I, 43:49 and You heard my voice." 43:51 So Jonah is using the word hell in connection with forever. 43:56 And the New Testament 43:57 specifically the Book of Revelation 43:59 which is heavily saturated with Old Testament 44:02 symbolism and analogy is borrowing 44:06 from this experience of Jonah 44:08 and showing us what hell is like. 44:11 Hell is like an experience that is so bad, 44:14 that if you have to go through it for three days, 44:16 it's gonna feel like forever. 44:17 Right. Very good analogy. 44:20 We often go through experiences, John, don't we? 44:22 Where, because of the discomfort of the situation, 44:26 because of the environment that's surrounding us, 44:30 we feel like-- The intensity of it. 44:32 The intensity, "This is taking forever." 44:34 Might only take a few minutes. Right. 44:36 "This is taking forever." 44:37 Have you ever been in the situation 44:39 where you, for example-- 44:40 Like an MRI. An MRI. 44:43 Or you're sitting in line 44:44 at the airport and it's taking forever. 44:46 You know, your plane's gonna leave 44:48 and you're anxious about it and this is taking forever. 44:50 Well it's not literally taking forever. 44:52 Right, and it's -- 44:53 It--so many stories come to my mind 44:56 when you talk about taking forever. 44:57 It always seems like you're taking forever like-- 45:01 they said there are three categories of impatient people. 45:04 Those wanting to get on a plane, 45:07 those wanting to get off a plane. 45:09 Those are the two categories 45:10 and those wanting to leave a restaurant 45:12 after they finish eating. 45:14 There are some people they just want to go out here 45:15 and all of a sudden the waiter that has come by 45:17 a number of times away just, 45:19 "How is your meal? How is your meal?" 45:20 It seems like when it's time for the check, they disappear. 45:22 Have you noticed it? I have noticed. 45:24 "I got to get back to work, I'm gonna be late." 45:26 And all of a sudden, "Is there's a person 45:28 by the name of Jenny that works here?" 45:30 "I think she left." 45:32 "Well, I need my check, I need to get out of here." 45:33 And so this impatience 45:35 and then to just take this to the next level, 45:37 sometimes while people are going through the suffering, 45:39 they are going through the difficulty, 45:41 the pain, the heartache, the tragedy of the moment, 45:44 they say, "It was like going through hell." Yes. 45:47 And C.D. Brooks, one of my favorite preachers, 45:50 he says that word hell is such a word 45:52 that has been given so many definitions. 45:54 For those who live in Alaska and it's a terribly cold winter. 45:57 They'll say, "It was cold as hell." 46:00 That's what he said. 46:01 Then he said for those who live in Brazil 46:03 and they have an usually hot summer, 46:04 "It's hot as hell." 46:07 And so you use that term so loosely--Loosely. 46:10 That people have lost the understanding 46:12 of what hell really is all about. 46:15 Hell is not something that we create in our own environment 46:18 but hell has specifically been designed by God 46:22 for the devil and his angels. Yes. I love that. 46:25 So when you think about hell, 46:27 it's no reason for us to even-- I always say, 46:29 there's no reason for us to break into their destruction. 46:33 I won't even say celebration. 46:34 There is no-- God has not ordained hell 46:36 for any of his children. 46:38 And that's where that-- isn't that, John, 46:40 how we connect the devil to hell. 46:42 The devil is connected to hell 46:43 because hell is a place that's been reserved for him. 46:46 The hell has been a place 46:47 that's been reserved for the angels. 46:49 And it's the devil that's sending out the invitations. 46:51 It's the devil that wants us to join him in hell. 46:53 God never intended that any human being 46:56 would ever experience that. 46:57 And I like that the fact that we can relate to it 47:01 in our experiences on this earth. 47:03 Because when I look in Revelation, 47:04 for example, chapter 21. 47:07 It talks about the new heaven and the new earth. 47:10 And this is a beautiful picture that God has given to us. 47:13 In Revelation Chapter 21:1, it says, 47:16 "And I saw a new heaven and a new earth, 47:18 for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away, 47:20 and there was no more sea." That's right. 47:22 "And I, John, saw the Holy city New Jerusalem 47:23 coming down from God as a bride adorned 47:26 for her husband, out of heaven." 47:28 And then it goes on to say that God is going to dwell with us 47:31 and be with us--and then in verse 4 it says this, 47:33 "And God shall wipe away all tears 47:36 from their eyes." That's right. 47:37 "And there shall be no more pain-- 47:39 excuse me no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, 47:42 neither shall there be any more pain," 47:43 I knew that was there, 47:45 "for the former things are passed away." That's right. 47:48 There is a lot of pain in this world 47:49 that reminds us of hell. 47:52 That reminds us the experience of hell. 47:55 In other words, the discomfort, 47:57 the intensity what Jonah went through 48:00 reminded him felt like hell, 48:02 felt like that experience of hell. 48:03 But ultimately when we think about the experience of hell, 48:08 we need to look to the cross of Calvary. 48:10 We need to look to what Jesus Christ experience 48:13 on the cross because He experienced for us, 48:16 the death that we deserved. 48:18 In Revelation, it's called the second death. Right. 48:20 And the lake of fire is called the second death. 48:23 And ultimately that symbolism 48:25 while we know it's literally in the sense, 48:27 2 Peter Chapter 3 tells us 48:29 that this world is gonna be consumed 48:31 with this fire and made new. 48:32 We also need to recognize that that represents 48:35 the anguish, the torment of separation from God. 48:39 When Jesus was on the cross, friends, He said, 48:41 "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?" 48:44 He had a full realization of God's love, 48:46 God's acceptance through His entire life, 48:49 His entire existence, we can't even comprehend that. 48:51 And now He is separated from the Father, 48:53 from the one person who knows Him, 48:55 who understands Him, who sympathizes with Him, 48:57 who has been with Him, who has helped Him. 48:59 Now He is separated from the presence of the Father. 49:02 He doesn't feel as though God is with him. 49:04 And in that agony, He tastes, He experiences hell. 49:08 He experiences the second death. 49:10 The second death is a terrible thing. 49:12 You know, when we think about-- I mentioned a moment ago, 49:15 how hell is not designed for God's people. 49:17 There is also this concept that the soul will survive hell. 49:25 There's only one way that people can come up 49:27 with the idea that you'll be burning 49:28 for ever and ever and ever and ever 49:31 is that they believe that the soul somehow is eternal. 49:35 There is a passage, James, 49:36 it's often used to try to buttress that point. 49:40 But if you read the verse, in its entirety-- 49:43 you know, a lot of times the first part of the verse 49:44 could say one thing 49:46 but when you read the whole verse 49:47 the story is actually the opposite. Yes. 49:50 Matthew 10:28, I want us to look at that very briefly. 49:54 Turn to Matthew 10:28 or even write that one down 49:56 because this is a passage that people often read and say, 50:00 "See, I told you that there are gonna be souls in hell 50:03 that will not be destroyed." 50:04 And I said, "No, read the whole verse." 50:08 Here is the part that is often read 50:10 and somebody read this to me 50:12 once over the phone and said, 50:13 "well, now do you--," 50:15 don't forget this is the second part. 50:16 "And do not fear of those who kill the body 50:19 but cannot kill the soul." 50:21 They say, "see there. Soul will never die." 50:24 But now read the rest. 50:26 "But rather fear him which is able to destroy 50:29 both the soul and body in hell." Okay, okay. 50:34 Is the soul eternal? No. 50:36 Ezekiel 18:4, "The soul that sinneth, it shall die." 50:42 So this whole idea that-- go ahead. 50:44 Oh, I was gonna say in Genesis 2:17, 50:48 "In the day that you eat of it you will surely die." 50:50 Surely die. So there is no eternal soul. 50:54 There is nothing about us that's eternal. 50:57 As a matter of fact, the one of the passages 50:59 that's often left out when it comes to things 51:00 that are eternal, my favorite one, Romans 6:23. 51:05 Romans 6:23 is kind of like another John 3:16. 51:09 Romans 6:23, it says, "The wages of sin is death. 51:16 But the gift of God is eternal life 51:20 through Jesus Christ our Lord." 51:22 Now get it, the wages of sin is death, 51:25 not the continuance of life in hell. 51:28 The gift of God is eternal life. 51:30 Point, how can you burn forever if you can't live for ever. 51:35 Good point. I love this. 51:37 I love this and from Genesis to Revelation 51:39 we get the picture. 51:40 Genesis, tree of life, 51:42 parting of the tree of life gives you eternal life. 51:45 Only God is in Himself immortal. Only God. 51:49 So eating of the tree of life gives us eternal life. 51:52 So Adam and Eve sinned, what happened? 51:54 We were taken out of the garden. 51:56 The way was barred by angels with swords, why? 51:59 So we could not partake of the tree of life 52:01 because in partaking of the tree of life as sinners, 52:03 we would immortalize sin. Right. 52:05 So then you go through the whole redemption story, 52:07 you get to the Book of Revelation, 52:09 the very last chapter, Revelation Chapter 22:1. 52:12 "And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, 52:15 clear as crystal, proceeding 52:17 out of the throne of God and of the Lamb. 52:19 In the midst of the street of it, 52:20 and on either side of the river, 52:22 there was a tree of life, 52:23 which bare twelve manner of fruits, 52:25 and yielded her fruit every month, 52:27 and the leaves of the tree 52:29 were for the healing of the nations." 52:30 Friends, the tree of life 52:32 is going to be restored. That's right. 52:33 And the immortality, the immortal life 52:36 that we're given in God is connected to this tree, 52:39 to the fruit of the tree of life that we partake of 52:43 and therefore we are restored to the eternity 52:46 that God intended for us to experience when He created us. 52:50 For some reason-- and I have seen 52:52 this resistance more in the Christian world 52:54 than in an non-Christian world 52:55 because people that are living an unrighteous life, 52:59 they don't want to be talking about the eternal fires of hell. 53:02 That's not their favorite topic. No doubt. 53:04 But for some reason, some Christians seem unhappy 53:08 that we would say, 53:10 "Well, sinners are not going to burn forever." 53:13 So let me pose the question. 53:17 Why do we sense that in many denominations 53:21 there is this persistent refusal to accept the fact 53:26 that the fires will go out? 53:29 Why is it that God seems to be the one 53:31 that is being maligned rather than 53:36 being exalted as a God of love 53:38 who doesn't want sinners to be destroyed? 53:41 You read Ezekiel 18, Ezekiel 33, 53:43 you'll find-- He says, 53:44 "I have no pleasure--" No pleasure. 53:46 "In the death of anyone who dies," 53:49 says the Lord, therefore turn and live 53:52 but if they're burning forever and ever, it's opposite. 53:55 He does have pleasure. 53:56 I think part of it, John, part of the reason 53:57 for that the question you're asking is because 54:00 Christians for some reason are afraid 54:03 that if we don't teach eternally burning fire, 54:06 we're going to lose motivation for salvation 54:10 and for being in heaven 54:12 and for getting people to accept Christ as their savior. 54:16 That this is part of the motivation factor 54:19 that is used in witnessing and evangelizing people 54:23 that we tell them, 54:25 "Hey, you're gonna burn for ever and ever." 54:26 You don't want to burn for ever, do you? Right. 54:28 I remember-- and he's not a Christian. 54:30 He is actually a Muslim. 54:32 But I remember Muhammad Ali, in Readers Digest, 54:35 he had an article 54:37 and he gave an illustration. 54:38 He had a match and he lit it. 54:40 And he put to his finger. 54:42 And he said, "Ouch! That burns." 54:44 He says, "I don't want to burn like that 54:46 forever and ever and ever." 54:48 And so here's this motivation but here's what the Bible says, 54:52 in contrast, 2 Corinthians Chapter 5:14. 54:56 It says, "The love of God constraints 55:00 or motivates us." That's right. 55:01 So a transition has to take place. 55:03 At some point every single person in this world, 55:06 Muslim, Christian, Hindu, Buddhist, atheist, 55:09 at some point every single person in this world 55:11 has to transition from being afraid of God 55:15 to understanding the love of God. 55:17 Not a God who wants to burn people forever and ever 55:19 if you don't follow him and obey him, 55:21 but a God who himself received 55:23 and experienced the torment of separation, 55:26 the hell of being separated forever from life 55:29 and from the God who loves us 55:31 and was willing to pass out of an existence in our place, 55:35 a God who motivates our hearts because He loves us 55:39 and draws us to Him because of His great love 55:41 rather than a God who warns us 55:44 and causes us to fear him and therefore by fear 55:47 and trepidation move us into the kingdom of God. 55:49 You know what's amazing about that? 55:51 God is not setting up this fire escape religion, 55:54 this concept that there is gonna be 55:57 this eternally burning hell 55:59 and there is nothing you can do it to get out of that, 56:01 He has come to give us life 56:03 and to give it to us more abundantly. 56:05 As a matter of fact, 56:06 you know, the passage in the Bible that really moves 56:09 on my heart so much is not just John 3:16, 56:13 but John 3:17, "For God sent not His son into the world 56:17 to condemn the world but that the world 56:19 through him might be saved." Amen. 56:22 And so often people are brought into this idea 56:25 that God wants to condemn us, 56:26 God wants to destroy us. 56:28 But He wants to give us life 56:29 and give it to us so much more abundantly. 56:31 Yeah. I like this again Roman-- Revelation, excuse me, 56:34 chapter 15 describes the redeemed understanding 56:38 on a sea of glass mingled with fire. Okay. 56:42 A sea of glass mingled with fire. 56:44 The fire escape idea is that we're escaping 56:47 from this fire that is different or separate from God. 56:50 Now God himself is a consuming fire to sin 56:52 and we're gonna dwell in his very presence. 56:54 But only those who have accepted the Christ, 56:56 put their trust in him can dwell in the very presence of God 56:59 in the fire of God's presence in the fire of His love. 57:03 I never thought about that but satan, 57:05 before he fell, Lucifer, before he fell he walk back 57:09 and forth in midst of the fire of God. 57:11 Now when we are perfect we will be able to exist 57:14 in the midst of a God who is a consuming fire 57:17 but he is only consuming our sinfulness 57:20 so that we could have His righteousness eternally. 57:23 What a wonderful topic to talk about, 57:24 the glory and the righteousness of Christ 57:27 and, friends, when Jesus comes to make a house call 57:30 we pray that you will be found in His righteousness eternally. 57:34 May God bless you. |
Revised 2014-12-17