Participants: John Lomacang (Host), John Stanton
Series Code: HCL
Program Code: HCL170008A
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00:01 Hello friends, grab your Bible and a friend,
00:02 and sit back as we explore God's Word together 00:05 on this edition of House calls. 00:22 Welcome to the House Calls, program of the day. 00:26 This is the one that you need to stay tuned into. 00:30 I'm John Lomacang. And I am not a robot. 00:32 That's my non robotic friend over there. 00:36 John Stanton, good to have you here, John. 00:38 It's good to be here again. 00:39 And the Word of God is a wonderful place 00:41 to spend an hour. 00:43 And we thank you for tuning in to join us to do that. 00:46 As you know we have Bible questions and comments 00:48 and we are hoping today 00:50 to finish our topic on discipleship. 00:53 That's right. 00:54 Discipleship is something that needs to be 00:55 focused on even more. 00:57 Give us a preview, where we're headed today 00:58 in this topic of discipleship. 01:01 Well, this last program we're going to be talking about 01:03 the four areas of the disciple making matrix. 01:06 In other words, this is what the church should be doing, 01:08 how it should organize, 01:10 to build a culture of discipleship, 01:12 and help to really equip, and train, 01:14 and make disciples as Christ asked us to. 01:17 Okay, wonderful, wonderful. Thank you, John. 01:19 And as you know, we don't do anything here without prayer. 01:22 And John always begins on air. 01:24 I pray off the air, 01:25 just in case you wonder if I pray. 01:27 And he's going to pray on the air. 01:29 John, so take us to the throne of grace. 01:31 Okay. 01:32 Father, we do come with confidence 01:34 to Your throne of grace. 01:36 Asking for grace and help in our time of need right now 01:40 on this program. 01:41 We invite Your Spirit to be here with us, 01:43 and to touch our hearts, and our minds, 01:46 so that we might hear Your voice, 01:48 and that we might share the truths 01:50 that You have in Your word. 01:51 We pray that it will touch the hearts and minds out there 01:54 as well that we all might receive conviction 01:56 and conversion to follow you in Jesus' name, amen. 02:01 Amen. Thank you, John. 02:03 And as you know your questions that we get, 02:06 we have some more today. 02:08 We're going to address those and your comments 02:10 are vitally important. 02:11 You can send those to the address on the screen 02:13 housecalls@3abn.org. 02:15 That's housecalls@3abn.org. 02:19 And we do appreciate it, very much for your prayers 02:23 and also your financial support of this network, 02:26 as we go and grow getting ready 02:28 for the coming of our Lord and Savior. 02:30 Questions are important, John. 02:31 So what's the first one out of the chute 02:33 that you have for us today. 02:34 Yeah, I have a question from Mark. 02:36 And he says here, "Hey guys, 02:38 I have a question about Jude 14, Zachariah 14:5, 02:43 Deuteronomy 33:2, 1 Thessalonians 3:13 02:47 and Revelation 19:1. 02:49 And by the way there is a specific point 02:51 about these verses, he wants to bring up. 02:53 He said the first four verses points to the saints 02:55 coming with the Lord. 02:57 That's right. 02:58 The last verse refers to people in heaven. 03:02 Can you explain? 03:04 I've heard that the word saints in these verses 03:06 can be translated as angels. 03:10 I'm not necessarily in agreement with that 03:12 but we'll take a look. 03:14 Let me know what you find. 03:16 And so I'm going to read a couple of, 03:18 maybe you can read a couple of them, 03:20 then we can dive right in. Okay. 03:21 You want to do that? Sure. 03:22 Okay, I'm going to read Jude 14 03:25 and maybe you can pick up Zachariah 14:5. 03:28 All right, I'll do that. 03:30 And then I'll read 1 Thessalonians 3:13 03:33 and you can read Revelation 19:1. 03:35 Okay, Jude 14 is, it says this, "Now Enoch, 03:39 the seventh from Adam, 03:42 prophesied about these men also saying, 03:44 behold the Lord comes with ten thousand, 03:48 with ten thousands of His saints." 03:51 Okay, so Jesus is coming 03:53 with ten thousands of His saints. 03:56 What do you have there from Zechariah 14:5? 03:59 Zechariah 14:5, "Then you shall flee 04:04 through my mountain valley, 04:06 for the mountain valley shall reach to Azel. 04:10 Yes, you shall flee. 04:13 As you fled from the earthquake, 04:15 in the days of Uzziah, King of Judah, thus the Lord, 04:20 my God will come and all the saints with you." 04:25 Okay. 04:26 Okay, and then 1 Thessalonians 3:13, 04:30 "So that He may establish your hearts blameless 04:33 in the holiness before our God and Father, 04:35 at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, 04:37 with all His saints." 04:40 Okay. 04:42 Now the text that you just read in Thessalonians 04:48 coming with His saints is different from coming for. 04:54 That's right. 04:56 Yeah, we're definitely going to distinguish that here. 04:57 You're going to address that. 04:59 We just wanted to read the text and then we can go from there. 05:01 Revelation 19:1, I think was the last one. 05:04 I can read that if you want. Sure. 05:08 It says, "After these things, I heard a loud voice 05:10 of a great multitude in heaven, saying, "Hallelujah! 05:14 Salvation and glory and the honor and power 05:16 belong to the Lord our God." 05:20 It talks about a great multitude. 05:22 They're not necessarily the saints, 05:23 but a great multitude. 05:25 They're saying, hallelujah. Okay. 05:28 So we have several verses here 05:30 about Jesus' coming with His saints. 05:34 We also know and I'm sure the viewer here, 05:37 the one that sent in this question is aware 05:39 that the scripture also talks about 05:41 Jesus coming for His saints. 05:44 In fact, it's one of the distinctions 05:46 that is not clear to some 05:52 who are teaching a wrong thing 05:54 in regard to 1 Thessalonians 4, which I think it's in verse 14, 06:02 "For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, 06:04 even so God will bring with him those who sleep in Jesus." 06:08 And they read that and they say, 06:10 "Well, see this definitely is the second coming." 06:12 What follows here and Jesus is bringing His saints. 06:15 But if you look carefully, 06:17 that verse and to your point earlier, 06:18 it says here that God, that is the Father, 06:23 brings Jesus up to heaven with His saints. 06:29 That means Jesus has come down to get them. 06:31 That's right. 06:32 So this is not Jesus coming from heaven with His Saints, 06:37 but Jesus coming down, because God said, go get them. 06:40 His Father said, go get them. Jesus comes down. 06:42 Has the resurrection, calls those who are alive 06:45 at that resurrection to Him, to meet Him in the air. 06:47 And then He takes them back to heaven, 06:50 having His Father receive all of them together. 06:53 That's right. Okay. 06:54 So that's the passage that sometimes gets 06:56 a lot of confusion here which is probably 06:58 what led to this question with regard to the other ones. 07:02 Now this whole saint idea, 07:04 the saint and angel interchangeable. 07:08 Revelation 8:3, just to show you 07:10 that they are not speaking about saints in the sense of... 07:15 Because when you look at the New Testament church, 07:18 Paul mentioned this, greet the saints, 07:22 especially those who are of Caesar's household. 07:27 Saints were the term or word used for those converted. 07:31 Those that decided to follow the way. 07:34 And the Bible talked about the way in the Book of Acts, 07:37 the way, Jesus is the Way, the truth and the life. 07:39 And so instead of saying Jesus, 'cause Jesus said, 07:42 I am the way to be culvert, and to be somewhat 07:47 camouflaged in their approach. 07:49 I sense it's the real Midwest word, 07:51 to be camouflaged in their approach, 07:53 so that they were not seen 07:55 as divisive by the Jewish leaders, 07:57 which in fact they didn't like Christianity. 08:00 Saints were the ones that decided to follow the way. 08:03 Instead of saying following Jesus, 08:04 they decided to follow the way. 08:06 But Revelation 8:3 shows you 08:08 that saints and angels are not the same. 08:11 Revelation 8:3, "Then another angel, 08:15 having a golden censer came and stood at the altar. 08:19 He was given much incense that he should offer it 08:23 with the prayers of all the saints 08:26 upon the golden altar, which is before the throne." 08:29 So the saints are the ones that are praying. 08:32 Those are, that's us. 08:33 We're praying, and the altar of incense 08:35 which was in the compartment just before the Most Holy Place 08:39 right before the curtain there, 08:41 the incense that continued to rise 08:42 represents the Israelites, their prayers going up 08:45 before God day and night. 08:47 The saints, and it says in verse 4, 08:49 "And the smoke of the incense with the prayers of the saints 08:53 ascended before God from the angel's hand." 08:57 And so the angel simply having the incense is, 09:01 the incense is representing in the hand of the angel, 09:04 the prayers of the saints. 09:06 Angels and saints are not used in the same context. 09:09 Sometimes angels are called into existence beings. 09:14 Saints are those who were created and procreated 09:18 from parent, to parent, to parent, to parent 09:20 from generation to generation. 09:22 So saints are primarily a term or word used 09:24 to describe Christians rather than to describe angels. 09:29 Which is why Paul refers to the church 09:33 as the saints many times in his writings as well, 09:36 as do the other writers of the epistles 09:39 that we find in the New Testament. 09:41 Now just to answer this question, 09:43 I think some of the confusion here, 09:44 because there are verses that he mentions here clearly 09:46 that say, "Jesus comes with His saints." 09:49 There is some confusion as to the fact 09:52 that the Bible doesn't just describe the second coming. 09:55 It describes a third coming. That's right. 09:58 And the third coming is 09:59 with the saints from heaven downward. 10:03 The second coming is Him coming and taking the saints upward 10:06 to heaven with Him. 10:07 And these things are described clearly 10:09 in Revelation beginning with verse 19 10:13 all the way through verse 21, even 22. 10:17 Revelation is written for a lot of part as a story. 10:21 What you'll find in Revelation 15:16 10:23 is introduction of the seven last plagues. 10:26 17 and 18 is the judgment of the great harlot. 10:30 This antichrist power that identifies it, 10:34 as well as the judgment that comes upon it. 10:37 That judgment culminates in chapter 19, 10:40 Revelation 19 with the second coming of Jesus. 10:42 That's right. 10:44 And then in Revelation 20, 10:45 what you'll find there are two resurrections. 10:48 You'll find a second death, a Judgment Seat of Christ 10:52 at the third coming 10:53 when the New Jerusalem has come down. 10:55 So what you find laid out here is a very careful assessment, 11:00 description of what is going to come about. 11:03 That's right. 11:04 And if you don't understand that sequence, 11:08 you get confused by the text here and there 11:10 that talks about Jesus coming with the saints. 11:12 That's right. 11:13 Anytime it says, Jesus coming with His saints from heaven 11:15 is not describing the second coming, 11:16 it's describing the third coming. 11:19 And that third coming in Revelation is found 11:22 in Revelation 20 and 21, mostly 21 11:27 because it talks there about the New Jerusalem 11:29 coming down there with the saints. 11:32 And then, of course, the end of 20 talks about 11:34 the judgment that occurs of the wicked 11:36 who have been raised at that time. 11:37 That's right. 11:39 And it also, and the Bible also talks about the graves 11:42 being opened at the crucifixion of Jesus. 11:45 And it says, and the bodies of the saints 11:47 who had fallen asleep were raised. 11:50 Well, angels never fell asleep. 11:53 Angels never died. 11:54 So when you look at the words in the Book of Psalms, 11:59 all through the Bible, 12:00 saints always associate with humanity, 12:03 not with called into existence beings as the angels were. 12:08 Yes. Anything else, John, on that? 12:09 No, I think that's it. 12:10 Let's go to Jeremiah now, 12:13 because this gentleman asked the question. 12:16 Todd, he asked the question about Jeremiah 25:33. 12:21 He says, "So where does Jeremiah 25:33 come into play. 12:26 I'm confused. 12:27 Can someone show me some scripture to clear out 12:31 this misunderstanding I'm having here 12:34 over the rapture, 12:36 the evil living being destroyed, 12:39 and the good living going on with Christ 12:43 on a thousand years Sabbath?" 12:46 Jeremiah 25:33. 12:51 Okay, Jeremiah 25:33, speaking about this primarily, 12:58 it's talking about, what happens 13:01 at the second coming of Jesus. 13:03 And by the way there is no rapture, 13:07 there is no secret rapture. 13:09 I think it's Psalms 25. 13:12 Let me look that up very quickly here. 13:14 There is no such thing as a secret rapture. 13:16 The Lord is not coming to... 13:19 Let me put it here. 13:21 I want to get this very quickly for you. 13:23 That there is no, the word rapture in the Bible, 13:28 if there's any word that's even close to it, 13:30 it's the word from 1 Thessalonians 4, 13:33 which is caught up. 13:34 When Christ comes, He will catch them to meet Him, 13:37 catch them up to meet them in the air. 13:39 But it's not, it's far from a secret. 13:42 He's got it, He's returned visibly, 13:44 audibly, worldwide, 13:48 so there's no secret rapture there, 13:50 it's simply a rapturing up. 13:51 We're catching up at the time that Jesus appears 13:54 in the clouds of heaven, 13:56 clouds of glory coming down to get His saints. 13:58 This verse in Jeremiah 25:33 "And at that day..." 14:03 This is speaking about the day of the Lord, 14:04 the day of the Lord, the Bible says, 14:05 "The Lord has a controversy with all nations." 14:08 In verse 31, let me just quote 14:09 and put the whole context together. 14:12 Noise will, let me put the whole context will be, 14:18 oh, wow. 14:19 Are you looking in Jeremiah? 14:21 Yeah, let's start with... 14:22 Start with verse 30 because it parallels 14:25 1 Thessalonians forward to a great degree, 14:27 talks about the voice. 14:28 Oh, yeah, it's sure. 14:30 I'm looking at that, verse 30, "Therefore prophesied 14:32 against them all these words and say to them, 14:37 the Lord will roar from on high and utter His voice 14:41 from His holy habitation. 14:43 He will roar mightily against His fold. 14:47 He will give a shout as those who tread the grapes, 14:52 against all the inhabitants of the earth." 14:55 So this is something everyone will know. 14:56 Already we've seen the voice and shout, 14:57 same language used by Paul in Thessalonians 4. 15:01 And this is describing, 15:02 this is describing the second coming of Jesus. 15:05 A noise will come to the ends of the earth, 15:08 for the Lord has a controversy with the nations. 15:11 He will plead His case with all flesh. 15:15 He will give those who are wicked to the sword, 15:18 says the Lord. 15:19 This is what's happening when the Lord comes. 15:21 Matthew 19 talks about this, 15:23 He's going to come back with Word of God. 15:24 He's going to come back with a two-edged sword. 15:27 Speaking of the Word of God from His mouth. 15:29 He's not going to come back with a sword 15:30 sticking out of His mouth, 15:31 but His word is like a two-edged sword, 15:33 Hebrews 4:12. 15:35 And this is what's happening, verse 32, 15:37 "Thus says the Lord of hosts, behold disaster shall go forth 15:42 from nation to nation, and the great whirlwind 15:45 shall be raised up, 15:46 from the farthest parts of the earth..." 15:49 And what's the result of that? 15:51 "And at that day, the slain of the Lord 15:53 shall be many from one end of the earth 15:57 even to the other end of the earth, 15:59 they shall not be lamented, or gathered, or buried, 16:04 they shall become refuse on the ground." 16:07 And that text there lamented together, 16:09 meaning there will be no funeral parlors, 16:12 looking for funeral services. 16:14 When destruction comes to the earth as it is, 16:17 and Isaiah 24 brings this out also, 16:20 "When destruction comes to all of humanity, 16:22 everyone is going to be affected by it." 16:25 That's why you find not only the inhabitants of the earth, 16:29 but also the shepherds. 16:30 The ones that have led the flock astray, 16:33 they will have their day pay for their dishonesty, 16:36 to pay for the people that they have led into destruction. 16:39 The blind leading the blind. 16:41 Both now face the judgment of God. 16:43 And so really be careful, 16:46 this is not a secret by any means. 16:48 Psalms 25, I think it is. 16:52 Here it is, Psalms 50:3, 16:54 "Our God shall come and shall not keep silent. 16:58 A fire shall devour before Him 17:01 and it shall be tempestuous all around Him." 17:04 So this consuming fire of God, this destruction that comes 17:08 is not as you asked the question here. 17:12 It has nothing to do with the rapture. 17:15 But the saints are caught away to be spared from this. 17:18 And the Bible says in Psalms 91, 17:20 "A thousand will fall at your side 17:22 and ten thousand at your right hand, 17:24 but it will not come near you. 17:25 Only with your eyes will you behold 17:28 and see the reward of the wicked." 17:31 So this is something that's going to happen 17:33 when Jesus comes again, 17:34 not at a rapture or a secret rapture 17:37 which has no bearing on scripture whatsoever. 17:40 That's right. 17:42 Okay. Okay. 17:44 I have an encouraging letter 17:47 that Kara had emailed that came in. 17:49 And we like these because they kind of let us know 17:52 what happens after we do these programs. 17:54 Okay. 17:55 It comes from Jerome, and he says, 17:58 "I was flipping through channels, 18:00 and I watched your explanation of the Sabbath. 18:02 It really changed my viewpoint. 18:04 I thank God and thank you for that information. 18:07 I have placed a lot of importance 18:09 on Sunday church going as tradition. 18:11 I know now that God has something better 18:13 and I had felt that as a grown man. 18:15 He has been leading me to the truth 18:17 and of that very subject. 18:20 Once again, I appreciate the knowledge and I thank you." 18:22 So very encouraging to hear from people 18:25 that an individual who heard our discussion 18:28 and was convicted of that by the Lord through His Word. 18:33 And so it's not about us, we're just sharing the word. 18:36 This is the work that the Holy Spirit does 18:38 in the hearts and lives of people. 18:39 That's right. Thank you, John. I have another one. 18:43 "If the laws of Moses, which are written 18:46 and kept outside the Ark of the Covenant 18:49 and the Ten Commandments were kept inside, 18:53 why is it that the Seventh-day Adventist Church says, 18:58 I'm going to die, 18:59 will be cast into the lake of fire, 19:02 if I eat pork. 19:03 Isn't that nailed to the cross, isn't not? 19:08 Is it not the Ten Commandments? 19:11 I would greatly appreciate an answer to this question." 19:14 Well, let me go ahead and clarify this. 19:17 First of all, there are a lot of people that ate pork 19:20 that are going to be in heaven. 19:23 There are a lot of people that smoked 19:24 that are going to be in heaven. 19:26 There are a lot of people that drink 19:27 that are going to be in heaven. 19:29 Moses, who is in heaven, killed an Egyptian. 19:32 So it's not the activity of your life, 19:34 it's what the Lord can deliver you from. 19:36 And I understand the inference that you're making here, 19:39 that in other words if I keep on eating pork 19:41 while the Bible talks about your body as God's temple. 19:44 The temple, not concept but teaching in the scriptures, 19:48 it's not a concept at all. 19:50 The body is the temple of God. 19:52 And the Bible says in 1 Corinthians 13, 19:56 1 Corinthians 10:31. 19:59 Let me turn there, 1 Corinthians 13 20:01 is the chapter about love. 20:03 1 Corinthians 10. 20:07 Here it is, and the verse says, "Therefore whether you eat 20:14 or drink or whatever you do, do all to the glory of God. 20:20 And so Paul the Apostle, speaking to the Corinthians, 20:23 who in fact were impacted 20:26 by the social norms of their day, 20:28 including in the city of Corinth, 20:30 which is a province of Greece, or a city in Greece. 20:34 They were impacted and affected by the society 20:37 in which they lived. 20:38 But Paul continued to remind them in other areas, 20:41 not only what they ate or drank, 20:43 but also about immoralities, sexual immorality. 20:46 And he said to them in 1 Corinthians 6:19, 20, 20:52 "Do you not know that your body 20:54 is the temple of the Holy Spirit, 20:55 who is in you, whom you have of God, 20:58 and you are not your own, for you were bought at a price, 21:01 therefore glorify God in your body, 21:04 and in your spirit which are God's." 21:06 He is talking about ownership. 21:07 Our bodies don't belong to us. 21:09 But there's one more passage. 21:11 1 Corinthians 3:16 and 17. 21:15 "Do you not know that you are the temple of God 21:18 and that the Spirit of God dwells in you?" 21:20 And here is verse 17, "If anyone defiles 21:24 the temple of God, God will destroy him, 21:27 for the temple of God is holy which temple ye are." 21:30 Now, what does that mean, destroy him? 21:33 What does that mean, defile the temple? 21:36 Well, the person who understood the temple services 21:39 understood what that meant. 21:40 No unclean meats could be used in the temple services at all. 21:44 But now let's make the association 21:46 or the illustration connection. 21:48 You have type, the actual temple, 21:51 physical animals being sacrificed 21:53 and their meat being sacrificed on the altar, 21:56 their blood being sprinkled. 21:57 But then you have the spiritual temple 21:59 which is our bodies. 22:01 Your body is the temple of God, 22:02 because we recognize that our bodies belong to God, 22:05 and the Spirit of God moves in after we accept Him. 22:09 The Lord says, "Keep your body from defiling it, 22:11 from impurity, from sexual immorality, 22:14 from unclean, from tobacco, from alcohol, from drugs. 22:18 Anything that abuses this body that is God's temple." 22:21 And the Lord specifically said to His children 22:25 in Deuteronomy 14:8, 22:27 and by the way I want to make this very clear. 22:29 "The swine is unclean to you. You shall not eat its flesh." 22:33 And so why is the swine unclean? 22:36 The Adventist Church doesn't say 22:38 that you're going to be burn in hell 22:40 or throw down in the lake of fire. 22:42 We don't teach that at all. 22:43 But we do teach, as the Bible teaches 22:45 that our bodies belong to God, and God's Word says, 22:49 we didn't say that. 22:50 If anyone defiles the temple of God, 22:53 1 Corinthians 3:17, 22:55 "If anyone defiles the temple of God, 22:58 God will destroy him." 22:59 That's not our teaching. That's in the scriptures. 23:01 For the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are. 23:04 So it could be defiled through alcohol, cigarettes, 23:06 sexual immorality, perversion, homosexuality, 23:09 any of these practices that defile the temple, 23:12 and negates the reality that the Spirit of God 23:15 has now sanctified you. 23:18 When we are sanctified, we are made holy. 23:20 And nothing unclean should be included or allowed 23:24 to affect the body externally or internally. 23:27 So now what's the opposite side of that? 23:34 The swine has been created as the garbage can of earth. 23:39 God has created his own sanitation department. 23:42 If you let a pig go. 23:45 Somebody did this illustration. 23:46 And by the way you can have a pig as a pet, 23:48 just like you can have a dog as a pet. 23:50 You can have any unclean animal as a pet. 23:53 You know, we have dogs, dogs are not to be eaten. 23:55 They are unclean as it were, in the sense of dietary. 23:58 But you can have a dog whatever, 24:00 you can have a pig. 24:01 Some people, it's fashionable in some places 24:02 for people to have a cute little pig. 24:04 You know, they walk around down Hollywood Boulevard 24:06 with their little pink pig. 24:07 It's cute. They get all the attention. 24:09 It's a great pet. 24:11 But when you, you could shower that thing. 24:14 You could bath it, you could spray perfume 24:16 or cologne, put a nice red bow. 24:19 But the moment you let it go, it's going to go find 24:21 some mud somewhere, some filth somewhere, 24:25 some something rotting somewhere. 24:27 God created that animal to be a walking garbage can, 24:32 a sanitation department to keep God's creation clean. 24:35 That's right. 24:37 So don't put that in your body and affect your body. 24:39 Health issues are paramount enough. 24:43 But we do not teach as a people, 24:45 that if you eat that, 24:46 you're going to be thrown into the lake of fire. 24:48 The Lord's Word says that we will be destroyed 24:51 if we defile His temple. 24:52 It's not a teaching of the Adventist Church. 24:53 It's a doctrine of the Bible. 24:55 John, the word, the words together, 24:58 unclean foods, is a bit of a misnomer. 25:01 That's right. Here's why. 25:03 The only kind of unclean food in the New Testament 25:07 described is food offered to idols. 25:11 There's no unclean food ever described or mentioned 25:15 in regard to swine or anything like that, 25:19 and here's why I can say this. 25:21 That's right. 25:22 Because unclean foods like pig 25:28 and all the other stuff, pork, those never were foods. 25:33 Never. 25:35 There are two lines of animals that come down through history. 25:40 You'll find this in Exodus and Leviticus. 25:46 Very clearly, two lines of foods, 25:48 two lines of animals. 25:50 Unclean animals and clean animals. 25:53 God says of the clean animals, you can eat those. 25:57 Of the unclean animals, He says, not food. 26:00 That's right. 26:02 So understand what we're saying here. 26:04 Unclean animals, that's not a misnomer, 26:07 that is very, very clear from scripture. 26:09 Unclean animals, not food. 26:12 So when you come down to the New Testament, 26:14 if you're talking about unclean foods, 26:17 the only kind of unclean foods, using the word foods 26:19 is food offered to idols. 26:21 That's right. 26:22 Unclean foods doesn't exist when it comes to the context 26:25 of pork and things, because it's the animal itself 26:30 that's unclean and untouchable. 26:34 So people say we can eat unclean foods. 26:37 I don't get what you're saying. 26:38 Unclean animals are not food. 26:40 No, they never... It never was food. 26:42 So when you're talking to even Jew or gentile 26:46 within the church in the context of foods, 26:49 there's no clear or unclean foods, 26:51 there is either clean or unclean animals, 26:54 and only the animals that are clean are food. 26:56 And then the foods that are declared unclean 26:58 are those that have been offered to idols, 27:00 you see what I'm saying. 27:02 The distinction is very clear here 27:03 and people just totally get messed up on this topic. 27:06 And they start debating over, well, all food is acceptable. 27:09 No. Well, you're right, all food is acceptable. 27:12 But the animals that were never declared food, 27:15 that's still not acceptable. 27:16 Okay, now here is that... I mean, you hit the... 27:19 Do you know what I'm going here or what I'm saying? 27:21 It's like, this is not a proper understanding 27:23 of how God organized and structured animals 27:26 in the lines of clean and unclean. 27:29 Jeremiah, I mean, Leviticus 7:19, 27:32 "Any unclean thing shall not be eaten. 27:35 It's not food." 27:36 It's not food at all, never has been. 27:38 Ask for the clean flesh. 27:41 All who are clean may eat of it. 27:43 There you go. 27:45 See, clean, you could eat it, but any un thing clean 27:48 shall not be eaten. 27:50 It's not food. 27:51 It was never intended to be food. 27:54 We don't go to garbage. 27:56 You know, can you imagine you take... 27:57 Let's just get a picture. 27:59 You run a bus, nice patted, nice coach bus holes. 28:03 You know, 80 people or 100 people. 28:06 And where are we going? We're going on a picnic today. 28:09 Where? To the nearest garbage dump. 28:13 Oh, what we are going to do there? 28:14 We're going to have a beautiful lunch. 28:16 Where is the lunch? It's at the garbage dump. 28:19 So everybody on the bus is clapping, they're excited, 28:21 we're going to have a picnic today. 28:23 You know, it's a ridiculous illustration, 28:25 but in fact when you eat 28:26 what God never intended to be eaten, 28:29 that's exactly what you're doing. 28:30 You're going on an excursion to a garbage dump, 28:32 and you're putting in this beautiful, 28:34 beautiful machine. 28:36 How many of you would open the tank of your Toyota, 28:39 or your Ferrari, or your Mercedes, 28:41 import dirt in the tank. 28:44 You wouldn't do it. 28:45 You wouldn't even put, you wouldn't even put 28:47 unfiltered fuel in your car, 28:50 no matter how much you paid for it. 28:52 You will get your air filter clean 28:54 and you will say, "I want this car to be, 28:55 how many of us will give bubble gum 28:57 and give a nice can of Miller beer 29:00 to a million dollar horse, 29:02 and expect him to run the race the next day. 29:03 We wouldn't do it. 29:05 We take better care of our animals, 29:08 and our cars than many of us do of our own bodies. 29:12 So it's useless to have an argument or a discussion 29:15 on clean and unclean foods. 29:17 Right. 29:18 Because unclean animals are never food. 29:21 So don't even tell me that all or some of these foods 29:23 that were unclean are clean because they were never food. 29:26 No, never. So, okay. 29:28 So that's what we're really trying to say here. 29:31 And when all these debates over clean, unclean foods, 29:33 the only discussion you can have in that regard is over 29:37 whether they've been offered to idols or not. 29:38 That's right. 29:40 Not line of animals that are food or not food. 29:43 And you can't cook it long enough to make it clean. 29:47 Any more than you can set a garbage dump on fire 29:50 and make it clean. 29:52 Fire doesn't make anything clean. 29:54 You can't season it to make it clean. 29:56 You cannot thawed out long enough 29:58 and drain enough blood from it, that's to make it clean. 30:02 God never intended for certain things to be eaten, 30:05 so He never called it food. 30:07 All right. I think that's good for our questions. 30:10 Sometimes we have to come across very clearly. 30:12 And we're not hoping, hopefully, 30:14 we're not coming across to offend you. 30:16 But we want you to be clear about God's word. 30:18 And John was very clear about making sure 30:21 that unclean and food are an oxymoron. 30:24 It doesn't really exist. That's right. 30:26 If you have any further questions or comments 30:27 that you want to send to us, 30:29 send those questions and comments 30:30 at the following email, housecalls@3abn.org. 30:33 That's housecalls@3abn.org. 30:36 John, I'm passing the baton to you. 30:39 You've done a lot of study in this area, 30:40 and I appreciate it very much. 30:42 Yes, we're going to finish up our discussion on discipleship. 30:46 And all of these things are taken from a presentation 30:49 that I put together 30:51 for the Upper Columbia Conference. 30:53 But have been traveling a bit and doing some seminars 30:56 on this in hopes that, John, our churches will desire 31:00 to build a culture 31:02 of discipleship in the churches. 31:04 Because, as I'll say it again, 31:06 if churches did discipleship right, 31:08 evangelism itself and fulfilling the commission 31:11 would largely take care of itself. 31:13 That's right. 31:14 Now, it does not minimize public evangelism at all. 31:17 It simply says that if you did discipleship right, 31:20 when you had in a public meeting, 31:22 you'd actually have a bunch of people ready to attend, 31:25 because discipleship had already been occurring 31:27 and new people would be coming in His interest, 31:30 into the church without having 31:32 to just send a bunch of flyers and things out, 31:34 which we're finding now works worse, 31:36 it works... 31:39 What is the word here. Is not as effective. 31:40 It doesn't work nearly 31:42 as effective as it ever used to. 31:44 So anyway. Okay. 31:46 So here's where we're at. 31:48 We're looking at Christ's other method. 31:50 His method of making disciples. 31:53 We know about the method of winning people's hearts 31:56 to the Lord as you do evangelism, 31:58 Ministry of Healing, 143, we've talked much about that, 32:01 and you've heard that in many times in seminars. 32:04 But this is Christ's other method, 32:05 His method of making disciples. Okay. 32:08 And so it follows the disciple making matrix 32:10 that I pulled out of scripture of the four different areas 32:16 that a church must engage in, 32:18 if they're going to be a disciple making church 32:19 which is to connect, grow, equip, and send. 32:24 And so in the context of that, Christ called the disciples 32:29 that's where He connects them to Him. 32:32 He taught the disciples, 32:33 they grew in their understanding of Him 32:36 and a knowledge of His will. 32:39 He showed the disciples, He demonstrated, 32:41 in other words, He equipped them. 32:43 There's nothing like seeing something firsthand 32:46 and learning. 32:48 We learn much better by doing something 32:50 that's practiced before us than just conceptually 32:53 learning principles, okay. 32:54 That's right. 32:55 And then lastly, Jesus sent out His disciples 32:57 and that's the send part of the disciple making matrix, 33:02 in the four quadrants there. 33:04 Okay. 33:05 So let's talk about each one of these, John, 33:07 because I know that you've got lots of stuff 33:08 and you can put together there. 33:10 And I've got a lot of stuff, I put together. 33:12 I think we can kind of finish up 33:13 this whole topic together in this 33:15 by going over these four, 33:17 and then in the very last part of it, 33:18 last few minutes we'll talk about 33:20 quality characteristics of a church 33:23 that need to be fostered to become 33:26 the disciple making church as well. 33:28 Okay. So let's talk about connect. 33:32 Do you remember that old show not that, 33:35 I don't even remember watching it much, 33:37 but you can't help but running it 33:38 over and over again, it was on every week, 33:40 I think it was even Thursday night. 33:42 And it was a show called Cheers. 33:43 Remember that? Yeah, I've heard about it. 33:46 Well, they had a theme song on that. 33:48 And I pulled off the words. 33:50 It was a book that another author 33:51 drew attention to this. 33:53 And he was emphasizing relationships in the church 33:54 and he had a great point, so I had to bring this in. 33:58 And here's essentially what the song says. 34:02 This is just a part of the song. 34:03 It says, "Sometimes you want to go 34:07 where everybody knows your name, 34:10 and they always, they're always glad you came. 34:13 You want to be where you can see, 34:16 our troubles are all the same. 34:18 You want to be where everybody knows your name." 34:21 Now that's in the context of a bar. 34:25 And if it's anything, it's a testimony to us, 34:29 of why people are drawn to bars in that situation. 34:32 They feel a connection with the people there. 34:36 It's not just about the drinking. 34:38 If you think the bars are all just about getting alcohol 34:41 and getting drunk. 34:43 That's not all there is to it. 34:45 Believe me, I've been there. 34:46 The reason they go to the bars 34:48 is their friends and people they know 34:49 there at that bar while they're drinking. 34:51 It connects them. 34:52 That's why they keep going to that same bar. 34:54 Well, now let's transition this over 34:56 and talk about the context of church. 34:58 The way, the reason people come to church, 35:01 and they want to come back to church 35:02 is because they have people there that like them 35:05 and that they'd like and that they connected 35:08 with on a relational level. 35:10 That's right. 35:11 In fact, if you read the first two couple of books 35:14 of the Bible, Genesis 1, not books, 35:17 but chapters, Genesis 1 and 2. 35:20 You'll find Genesis, some people say, 35:21 well, there are two creation accounts here, 35:22 there are two creations. 35:24 No, that's not what the Bible is saying. 35:26 In the first chapter, then the name Elohim 35:30 is the creator of the worlds, 35:33 but specifically describing the creation of our world, 35:36 and the sun, and the moon, and the things around it, 35:38 our galaxy. 35:40 But then you get to chapter 2 right around verse 4, 35:42 and there's this transition. 35:43 All of a sudden there's a shift, 35:45 and it's no longer Elohim that is talking about, 35:48 that is creating, forming man from the dust of the ground, 35:51 and breathing into his nostrils the breath of life. 35:54 His name is Yahweh Elohim. 35:57 God Elohim has a name. 36:00 It's the Lord, Yahweh. 36:03 The first step anybody ever has in a relationship 36:06 is when you learn somebody's name. 36:08 That's right. 36:09 That how many times have you, and I know you've done this 36:11 because, we've all done this. 36:14 You're walking down a hallway, 36:16 and you're coming up to somebody 36:17 who you should remember their name and you can't. 36:21 And the closer you get, 36:23 the more you're racking your brain for the name, 36:25 and almost to the point of nervousness, 36:26 you realize that if you just go hi, they'll think, Oh, well, 36:31 he doesn't really remember me, because he didn't know my name. 36:34 You see, knowing someone's name, 36:37 God as he formed man from the dust of the ground. 36:39 He says, He says in that chapter 36:41 I'm not just Elohim. 36:43 I'm Yahweh Elohim, your Creator, and you are Adam. 36:47 There is a connection that's relational there. 36:49 And then there's Eve connecting them. 36:51 And so in this whole development, 36:54 this relationship that begins to occur between God and man, 36:57 and between man and woman is to reach down 37:01 at the core of our being, 37:03 a desire that God put within us for connectedness. 37:06 We want to belong. 37:08 We want somebody to care, and love us, 37:10 and want us to be around. 37:13 And that's why I say the church to be a safe church, 37:15 to be a place where people connect. 37:17 You've got to focus on the relationship first. 37:20 If the first thing they hear when you come into a church is, 37:23 well, you know, that skirt's a bit high. 37:25 I think, you need to maybe go home and get something on. 37:28 It is no wonder they never come back 37:31 because you're not focusing, 37:32 you're not emphasizing the relationship aspect, 37:34 you're focusing on the legalistic perspective 37:37 of what someone looks like, and in a very judgmental way. 37:42 We know this to be true, don't we, John? 37:44 Well, fellowship is something that can only happen 37:46 when you know each other's name. 37:52 The roadblock of Christianity is this... 37:57 Which is not a roadblock in the bar. 37:59 Let me just go ahead and put that comparison, 38:01 because a lot of times I've heard 38:02 that illustration use. 38:04 And people have said, you know, I go to the bar. 38:06 They said, hey, drinks on me. 38:08 Hey, come and sit with me. Hey, what's your name? 38:13 The context is completely different. 38:14 There is zero pretense in the bar. 38:17 That's right. 38:18 I'm gonna get drunk, you gonna get drunk. 38:20 Let's get drunk together. It's true. 38:22 You know, there's no pretense. 38:25 In the church, one of the reasons 38:26 why people put up walls, is because they know, 38:31 and here is where the, 38:32 here's where the challenges come. 38:34 They know that there are some people in that church 38:37 that just came out of the bar. 38:39 That's right. 38:41 That are at different stages in their walk, 38:43 and they don't feel safe to feel that, 38:48 I could be in an environment where everybody 38:54 is going to love me as I am for who I am. 38:59 So oftentimes we come to church. 39:02 And as Steve Green pointed out this, you know, 39:06 people need the Lord, we all come. 39:07 We all need the Lord. 39:10 But because we don't spend time, 39:13 and sometimes this is the case, because we come out 39:16 of an isolated challenge in our lives. 39:20 And we bring this baggage with us. 39:22 We don't lay it at the feet of Jesus as He says, 39:24 "Come, lay your burden down, and I will give you rest." 39:28 We come into an environment where we say "Happy Sabbath", 39:31 or "Good to see you", or "Happy Sunday", 39:34 or whatever the context of your church service may be. 39:38 And then, we remain separated 39:41 because there's nothing that unifies us. 39:46 Now, let me change the scenario. 39:51 If I'm carrying a heavy bag and you decide to help me 39:56 carry that heavy bag, or that heavy sack. 39:59 All of a sudden, you have now become interested 40:03 in lightening my burden. 40:05 And now we're carrying that together. 40:07 One of the reasons why God calls His church 40:09 to be mission oriented is because and hear carefully, 40:13 it takes the focus off of us and puts it on someone else. 40:18 We start seeing the need of another person. 40:20 That's why he says, "Bear one another's burdens, 40:24 and so fulfill the law of Christ." 40:27 We don't often bear each other's burdens. 40:29 We come to church and we want somebody 40:31 to bear our burden. 40:32 Now there's a difference all together. 40:34 Yeah. 40:35 If you come to church and say, "Well, I got stuff, 40:37 you got stuff." 40:38 But if I say, "Can I pray with you?" 40:41 Don't have to tell me your stuff, 40:42 but I just want to pray with you. 40:44 And so this idea that we have to reveal all our stuff 40:48 is not what the scripture talks about. 40:50 But we have to come in an environment 40:51 where we know that everybody, 40:53 nobody there is going to ill-treat me. 40:55 Nobody there is going to be a danger to me. 40:58 Nobody there is going to try to hurt me. 41:01 And so, but where that all evaporates is, 41:04 when we come together on a unified mission. 41:07 When we are both connected to the vine, 41:09 we are both branches, and we're both, 41:11 the fruit are appearing on us, 41:13 so we don't have to feel like there's some fear there 41:15 because if I see the fruit of the spirit in your life, 41:17 and you see the fruit of the spirit in my life, 41:20 we've got a connection immediately. 41:21 Right. 41:22 So the connect, the connect part, John, 41:24 is what I want to emphasize first. 41:26 Get connected. Get connected. 41:28 I did it a lesson for a series that we did over in London. 41:33 It's called, "Are you connected." 41:34 Get connected. 41:35 And when you get connected, 41:37 then all of a sudden mission starts. 41:39 I am the vine, you are the branches. 41:41 Then we have fellowship with one another 41:43 as we walk in light, get connected first. 41:45 Yeah, absolutely. 41:46 Because you can't go to the next step 41:47 of either accepting Christ or even a baptism 41:51 if that connection has been made there, 41:53 not only with God, but with His people too. 41:55 Right. 41:56 Remember even the Ten Commandments 41:58 are built on two kinds of, 41:59 two connections in relationship directions 42:02 between us and God, our love for God, 42:05 and also our love for people. 42:07 And our connection with people, and how we love and serve 42:10 and care for each other. 42:12 So that connection has to be made. 42:13 Now let's talk about grow. Okay. 42:15 So we'll move from connection to grow. 42:16 So now, a decision has been made for Christ. 42:19 Baptism has happened. 42:20 And they begin to grow and hopefully the church then 42:22 is building a system, a process whereby 42:27 you can bring a disciple, a newly baptized disciple 42:30 into growth curriculum so to speak, 42:36 to grow as a disciple. 42:41 Let me see here. 42:42 There's a text here that I had. 42:44 And now all of a sudden my thing is not working well. 42:46 Okay. 42:48 Well I could... Go ahead. 42:49 Oh, 2 Peter 1:58. 42:52 I just turned there, unbelievable. 42:54 It's in the notes too, so there you go. 42:56 It must have been subliminal. 42:58 Our Lord connected us. 43:00 He does, He always does that. 43:01 Go ahead. Read that. 43:03 It says "For if these things are yours..." 43:05 And I actually I want to mention the things, 43:07 could I start in verse 5? 43:08 Yeah, go ahead. Okay. 43:10 Because we talked about the connection. 43:11 We talked about how we have to add to our walk with Christ, 43:15 these things, these are the components 43:18 of sustaining grace and the connectivity 43:21 and the growth in our walk with each other. 43:24 "But also for this very reason, giving all diligence 43:28 add it to your virtue, add to your faith virtue, 43:33 to virtue knowledge, to knowledge self-control, 43:37 to self-control perseverance, to perseverance godliness, 43:43 to godliness brotherly kindness, 43:47 to brotherly kindness love, for if these things are yours 43:52 and abound, you will be neither barren 43:56 nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus, 44:00 for he who lacks these things is short sighted 44:03 even to blindness and has forgotten 44:05 that he was cleansed from his old sins." 44:08 Yeah. 44:09 So the adding portion here is what excited me 44:11 about reading this text, because it's a constant stage, 44:14 add, add, add, add, add. 44:17 And this is the work of sanctification. 44:20 When we talk about discipleship and that's the subject here. 44:23 Discipleship doesn't begins until an acceptance of Christ 44:27 and a decision to follow Him has been made. 44:29 Right. 44:30 That's why we say that, if you go straight 44:32 to sanctification and you skip justification, 44:35 that is salvation in Christ by faith 44:39 according to His grace, then there's a problem. 44:42 I like what CA used to say live several times. 44:44 He said, "We have too many convicts in the church, 44:48 we need more converts." 44:49 Right. 44:50 Convicted of the topic, but not converted. 44:52 A lot of people convicted of the information, 44:53 but they're not converted. 44:55 They haven't stopped and connected with Christ, 44:57 received and have been justified in Him, 45:00 and then allowed Him then in a personal way, 45:02 relational way, as we just talked about 45:04 to walk with Him and to sanctify them. 45:06 That's right. 45:07 So sanctification is really what we're talking... 45:10 when we say discipleship, 45:11 we're talking about the sanctifying process 45:13 in us that God does. 45:14 Right. 45:15 And our willingness to follow that, 45:18 and allow Him to do that work. 45:20 Here's some of the spiritual practices. 45:23 We're talking about the things we should do 45:25 on a regular basis to grow. 45:27 Okay. 45:28 Here's some things that are important for us. 45:31 Prayer. Okay. 45:33 Bible study, worship is important, 45:37 gathering with the saints 45:38 and to worship corporately and even privately, 45:41 worship is important. 45:42 Here's another one, that's a good one. 45:44 Self-assessment. Oh, yeah. 45:46 There's a constant, for us to grow spiritually. 45:49 We have to constantly do some self-assessment. 45:51 We have to understand who we are, 45:53 what our weaknesses are, what are, 45:55 even what our strengths might be, 45:57 and allow God to help mold and shape those. 46:00 Here's another one, testimony. 46:04 Just giving our testimony can help us 46:06 grow in our faith. 46:07 We become stronger in our faith when we share our faith. 46:10 That's right. 46:12 And then lastly, the last one I want to point out 46:13 is stewardship. 46:15 Not just of money, but of time, 46:18 our talents, and our financial means. 46:22 So all those things, 46:25 those three things part of stewardship 46:26 are all part of growth. 46:28 And so, John, when we speak of these things as pastors, 46:31 when we preach on these various things, 46:33 what we're interested in is helping the disciples 46:34 who are there learn how to grow in Jesus. 46:37 Right, and the growth is a process that's daily, 46:42 it's not a one time thing. 46:44 But you've got to feed yourself during the week. 46:49 Yeah. 46:51 So many people, so many Christians, 46:54 we're talking about Christians now. 46:56 And I'm not talking about making plans. 46:57 Now people plan for their vacations, 47:00 they plan for their retirement, or they should. 47:06 They plan for a rainy day. 47:09 That's the terminology we use. 47:11 But so many Christians don't plan for the success 47:14 in their Christian walk. 47:16 So what do I need to do 47:17 to become a successful Christian? 47:19 What do I need to do to become effective in my walk? 47:22 How do I grow? 47:23 And I always say, if you fail to plan... 47:26 You plan to fail. You plan to fail. 47:28 If you fail to plan, if there's no... 47:30 If you don't have any literal plan 47:34 on a day-by-day basis to grow. 47:36 If you don't have a plan to read your Bible, 47:38 you don't have a plan to share your faith. 47:40 And these are not things 47:42 that you go through the list and check. 47:43 But it's not possible to read your Bible 47:45 and not want to share that with someone. 47:47 It's just not possible. 47:48 You find, you get so excited about it, 47:50 when we taste and see if the Lord is good, 47:52 we want to tell somebody about it. 47:53 So... 47:55 It's not possible to spend time with Jesus in prayer 47:57 and not be changed by it. 47:58 It's not possible. Yeah. 48:00 It's like a pregnant woman trying to hide 48:01 the fact that she's got... 48:02 There's a child on the way. 48:04 You can't do that. 48:05 It's going to happen because 48:07 when the Lord shines within you. 48:09 And when the Lord shows up 48:10 in your life, it's clear, evident. 48:12 So as a result of the Christ growing in us, 48:16 it should be evident to all around us. 48:17 Yeah. Have a plan for that growth. 48:20 There is two other things here, 48:22 two other parts to this disciple making matrix 48:25 that builds that. 48:26 That is the foundation of a disciple making church, 48:29 and that is equip. 48:30 And this is the one we talked about that was probably 48:32 the least amount of attention is given in the church, 48:37 equipping the saints. 48:40 Turn to Ephesians 4. Okay. 48:44 Ephesians 4 is where we want to go. 48:49 And Paul is very specific 48:52 as to what to do with the saints 48:55 that meet in the church, 48:58 and the saints is another word for disciples, right? 49:00 That's right. 49:01 If you're coming to church and you're following Christ, 49:03 you're a disciple. 49:05 And so let's start with verse 11. 49:10 "And He, that is Jesus Himself, gave some to be apostles, 49:14 some prophets, some evangelists, 49:16 some pastors, and teachers." 49:18 Now rather than focusing on the individual things there, 49:20 those are different gifts. 49:22 What I want to say is, 49:23 what Paul is simply saying is, these are the leaders, 49:25 these are the drivers of the church. 49:27 This is leadership, okay. 49:29 So He gives them for what purpose? 49:32 Verse 12, 49:33 "For the equipping of the saints, 49:36 for the work of the ministry, 49:39 for the edifying of the body of Christ." 49:42 Okay. 49:43 So this growing happens also as the leaders 49:47 of the church come together and develop a specific plan 49:50 to equip the members for ministry. 49:53 That's right. 49:54 And notice, it isn't the pastor, 49:56 isn't the leaders 49:57 that are doing all the ministry. 49:58 No. 50:00 They're simply the equippers, 50:01 those that help others feel empowered, 50:03 develop a sense of empowerment 50:05 for ministry. 50:06 I always say one of the biggest barriers. 50:08 We went to a church 50:09 and we were doing a church council there, 50:11 and what we found while we were visiting, 50:13 the team that I brought in, 50:15 was that the head elder was demanding 50:20 that all Bible studies go to him. 50:24 Because, here is the reason, 50:26 he was the only one that could do it effectively. 50:29 Oh, so nobody else should give Bible studies. 50:31 No one else should be doing the Bible studies 50:32 because he will do it right. 50:34 He knows how to do it. Give him to me. 50:36 Even when they would ask, 50:38 he'd say no, no, I'll handle this. 50:40 He wouldn't give up Bible studies, 50:42 and that was the first thing 50:44 we pointed out in one of our reports, 50:45 that you're stifling the growth of this church. 50:48 Everybody should be involved in different areas. 50:50 I'm not saying that everybody should be an expert 50:52 on Bible studies. 50:53 But certainly should be able to share 50:55 the elementary things of your faith. 50:56 Right. 50:57 But we all have 50:59 different ministries and different gifts, 51:00 and we are equipped, we become equipped. 51:03 We feel empowered when leadership, 51:05 the leaders of the church come in 51:07 and help us understand 51:08 and show us like Christ demonstrated 51:10 for His disciples. 51:11 They show us how to put those things into practice. 51:15 I'll tell you the biggest barrier 51:17 I think for some in sharing their faith 51:19 for getting out there and speaking about Christ 51:21 or lending a hand to others 51:23 is that they just haven't done it before, 51:25 haven't seen it done, haven't seen it modeled. 51:28 And so this equipping process 51:30 has everything to do with modeling it. 51:32 And so there are various ways to do that. 51:36 Let's see. 51:38 Let me share just a couple of things here. 51:41 Here are some important aspects of this part of it. 51:44 The equipping portion, focused on spiritual gifts. 51:47 There's an emphasis there, developing those talents. 51:51 What's the difference between gift and talent, John? 51:53 Just the quickest thing. 51:54 Talent is natural, 51:56 gift is controlled by the Spirit of God. 51:57 Okay. 51:58 And also you would say, you could also say this, 52:00 you don't become talented at something 52:03 until you use it. 52:05 So in some respects, 52:06 a gift can be given to you by God, 52:07 but it never becomes a talent, 52:09 because you haven't developed it. 52:12 So there's some of that in there too. 52:14 I mean, I'm talking about just the words, 52:15 per use of the words. 52:17 talent means, I've been practicing this 52:19 and I've become very talented at it. 52:21 Or sometimes we can bury our talents. 52:23 Absolutely. 52:24 You can just, you can even know how to use 52:25 that thing very well and never use it. 52:27 I use an illustration in the Bible, 52:28 when the wise man found Jesus, 52:30 they offered their gifts to Him. 52:31 It's not possible to find Jesus and offer your gifts to Him. 52:34 Yeah, yeah. It's not possible. 52:36 You cannot have an encounter with Jesus 52:37 and not offer your gifts to Him. 52:38 That's right. 52:40 You know, remember the story. 52:42 When they said to Him, 52:45 when the disciples said to Jesus, 52:46 when the multitudes were there, 52:48 He said, send the multitudes away. 52:50 And He said, send them away because He said, 52:52 He thought, the disciples thought 52:54 they had nothing to offer the multitudes. 52:57 Whenever you are in a position of leadership 52:58 and you feel you have nothing to offer the multitudes, 53:00 you have to consult Jesus about that. 53:02 Because he says we have nothing to offer them. 53:05 But Jesus said, they don't need to go away. 53:07 You need to give them something to eat. 53:08 That's right. And then He says. 53:09 And they said, 53:11 we have only five loaves and two fish, 53:13 it's all we have, we don't have a lot. 53:16 Here's the encouraging thing. 53:17 You may feel that you don't have a whole lot to work with, 53:20 but if you give the Lord what you have, 53:23 He's going to divide it. 53:25 He's going to multiply it. He's going to bless it. 53:29 And then the multitudes will not only be filled. 53:32 But you'll have 12 baskets of fragments leftover 53:35 to give to more and more. 53:36 Here's the key. 53:38 The Lord will never multiply what you don't give to Him. 53:39 That's right. 53:40 So people say, "What can I do?" 53:42 Story about the lady who had prayed for a few years 53:44 for 100 people, 53:45 99 of them actually got baptized. 53:49 And one a little while later. 53:51 But you can never have 53:53 any multiplication of your gifts, 53:55 any expansion or blessing of your gifts, 53:57 if you say this is all I have. 53:59 You know, and this is why vision 54:01 in the church, establishing a vision, 54:02 a core vision for the church and continually casting 54:04 that before them is really key, 54:06 because it's not just the leaders developing a plan 54:09 to equip the members. 54:10 When they put something together 54:12 and they have a concerted event 54:14 that happens to help equip them. 54:16 Members don't show up. 54:19 And so as disciples of Christ, we need to say, 54:21 "Hey, if the church is going to complete that vision 54:23 or can reach that vision, 54:25 and I want to be a part of that, 54:27 I need to be part of the process. 54:28 I need to come out, 54:29 when I have opportunities to be able to learn 54:31 and grow my and become equipped effectively 54:34 in my service for others." 54:37 That's right. 54:39 So yeah, important things, mentoring, coaching, 54:43 putting together ministry teams, 54:44 developing the talents, 54:46 all those are part of equipping. 54:47 Because time is slipping fast, let's go to sent. 54:50 Okay. 54:52 It says in Luke 10:1, 2, 54:54 "After these things the Lord appointed 54:56 70 others also and sent them two by two before his face 54:59 into every city and place, 55:00 where He himself was about to go." 55:02 Verse 2, "Then He said to them, 55:04 "The harvest truly is great, but the laborers are few, 55:07 therefore pray the Lord of the harvest to send out..." 55:09 And I want to focus on those words 55:11 "Send out laborers into His harvest." 55:15 Those words send out, 55:16 sending out laborers into the harvest 55:19 are the same words that are used in the Greek 55:21 for casting out demons. 55:23 When Jesus cast out demons, same word in the Greek. 55:29 This word, if you look it up 55:30 and you get behind its true meaning, 55:33 what you'll find is this word really is. 55:39 Well, the word ekballo is an action word 55:42 that refers to casting out, driving out, 55:45 pushing out to a place 55:48 that someone doesn't currently reside. 55:51 But more than that, here's the crazy thing John, 55:53 and this is where 55:55 some might feel a little uncomfortable. 55:57 It could also be. 55:58 And it is often against their will. 56:04 Here's what I take from that, 56:06 being sent out is not comfortable. 56:10 No... 56:11 If you think you should get comfortable first 56:13 before you go out, you'll never go out. 56:14 Right. 56:16 Jesus has to drive you out, push you out, 56:19 cast you out as laborers to get you 56:23 even though you're uncomfortable, 56:25 to get you to share your faith, 56:26 to do the work as disciples of laboring in His field, 56:30 to bring a harvest in. 56:31 That's right. 56:32 It's not comfortable, it's not easy, 56:35 but we're still called to do it. 56:37 So if you have this idea as a disciple of Jesus, 56:40 I'm waiting for it to get comfortable. 56:42 It'll never happen. You've got to get out there. 56:45 Let Christ drive you out into His harvest field, 56:48 and allow Him to teach you to provide the examples 56:51 and to show you as you begin to minister to others. 56:55 That's right. He has to send us out. 56:57 And when He sends us out, 56:59 He doesn't send us out to fail. 57:01 He says, "Lo, I am with you always." 57:03 This idea of, you got to follow those steps 57:07 and I'm going to reiterate them very quickly. 57:08 You have to connect the vine to the branch, 57:11 you have to grow in grace and knowledge. 57:14 You have to equip. 57:16 You have to make sure that 57:17 you are equipping your mind with God's Word. 57:19 He blesses what you bring to Him. 57:22 He'll multiply. 57:23 Then He'll send you out as laborers into the harvest. 57:25 And He promises that you will never fail, 57:28 you will always succeed. 57:29 That's right. 57:31 So my appeal to everyone who has heard this is, 57:34 look at your own church. 57:35 That's right. 57:37 Are you doing these four things? 57:38 Are these four things part of your process 57:40 of making disciples? 57:42 If they're not, I would get back 57:44 to the drawing board and start to institute 57:47 or put into place those things. 57:49 And on the other side of that, 57:50 you could probably invite Pastor Stanton 57:51 to come to your church. 57:53 He's easily accessible 57:54 on the Upper Columbia Conference, 57:56 not a plug for him, 57:57 but in fact we pray that God will cause you 57:59 to be effective disciples in His kingdom. 58:01 May God bless you until we see you again. |
Revised 2017-07-24