Participants: Patti Barnes, Don Mackintosh
Series Code: HFAL
Program Code: HFAL000056
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00:46 Hello and welcome to "Health for a Lifetime"
00:48 I'm your host Don Macintosh, 00:50 and today I'm delighted to have Patti Barnes here with us. 00:53 Welcome Patti. Thank you Don. 00:55 I understand that you are a certified professional midwife, 01:00 and how many babies have you delivered now? 01:03 Well, over 750 babies by now. 01:06 And you know all the families and everything 01:09 about them now, right? 01:10 Well, we're forever learning! 01:13 Well good, we're glad that you're here with us. 01:15 Today we're going to talk about 01:16 something that you're very familiar with... and that's 01:19 home births! Are they a good idea? 01:22 Are there reasons that maybe they're not a good idea? 01:25 And we're going to talk all about that today. 01:28 First of all, I guess that's a good question to start with... 01:31 Are home births a good idea? 01:33 Well, some of the couples are getting back to home births, 01:41 and I think probably because they want to have a natural 01:48 birth in a private home setting and be able to labor at home 01:53 where they are more relaxed. 01:54 Of all the people in the world that have babies, 01:58 would you say most of them are at home? 02:00 No, I'd say most of them are in the hospital of course. 02:03 You mean in America or in the world? 02:05 Probably in America... 02:08 In America they are mostly in a hospital, 02:09 but around the world, if you're not talking about 02:11 a Western country, most people don't 02:13 go to the hospital, do they? I guess not 02:21 So you mentioned some reasons 02:24 they're making a comeback, why is that? 02:26 Probably because a lot of the Christians that I know 02:31 they just want to have it in the privacy of their 02:34 own home so that the fathers can get more involved, 02:37 and they can labor in a natural setting, 02:41 and they seem to be comforted in their own home or relaxed 02:48 Are there things in a hospital 02:50 that make the hospital a good 02:52 setting for any reason? Yes Like what? 02:55 Well, they have medical emergency equipment, 02:58 and pain-relief drugs, and if a problem arises, 03:03 they can do surgeries, and also, they have 03:06 people wait on you so that makes it very appealing. 03:11 So, I assume that you work fairly closely with physicians 03:15 in a hospital if there is a need that arises. 03:17 Yes, if we have a high risk situation where we need to 03:21 go in the hospital and the lady would like to have me there, 03:25 the doctors always let me go into the hospital, 03:27 and work with them also in the hospital setting. 03:31 But, we believe that high risk situations need to 03:37 most definitely be in the hospital. 03:39 But what do you take with you when you go on a home birth? 03:41 Do you have the big kit that you take with you? 03:44 How many people go with you? 03:46 Well I have an assistant and she 03:50 is also trained in neonatal emergencies... 03:54 And, we have emergency equipment, 2 oxygen tanks 04:00 which we hardly ever use but, like I said, 04:05 high-risk individuals are supposed to be in the hospital 04:08 so, therefore, if you just take low-risk patients, 04:13 then it's going to be very rare if you ever have a problem. 04:18 I understand you just finished a new book on 04:21 all these experiences you've been having, 04:23 and it's called "The Ministry of Midwifery" 04:29 And, you look at it really as a ministry, don't you? 04:31 Yes, this is a ministry. 04:33 God has led me into this ministry, 04:35 and I don't treat it like a business. 04:39 We're really... we out there to help people. 04:44 My backup doctors are encouraged that I'm trying 04:49 to break down the prejudice between some of the patients 04:55 that otherwise would not get prenatal care, 04:57 or go into the hospital when they need to. 05:01 So there are a lot of people that you work with 05:03 who wouldn't go into the hospital usually 05:05 under any circumstance to see a physician, 05:07 and so you kind of are the liaison, 05:10 or that you're the person that introduces them 05:12 to one another and help them meet their goals. 05:15 Yes, and try to help them to be able to have more 05:20 confidence in going in and knowing that if they 05:25 have to have a hospital birth, 05:26 they can still have a good experience. 05:28 Are there any people that are going to have babies 05:30 while you're gone that you're worried about right now? 05:34 No, I'm on a little break. 05:36 You're on a little break, so someone else is 05:38 watching over them for you. Yes 05:40 Well I'm glad that you could come and be with us. 05:42 You know, understandably, I think perhaps 05:47 there would be those in the medical field that might have 05:49 a little disquietude about home births... 05:51 and might have a little disquietude about these things. 05:53 What kind of things can you share with us that 05:55 would put us at ease about that or at least 05:57 give us something to think about? 06:00 Well, there has been some studies done on 06:05 the safety of home births. 06:07 One of them is "The Mehl Study" and that was done 06:13 by Dr. Lewis Mehl who compared 1,046 home births 06:17 with the same number of hospital births, 06:20 and the couples in the group were matched closely as possible 06:23 in their characteristics... 07:03 But, Don, also the study could be a little slanted because 07:12 if midwives really do their job, they're competent, 07:19 they would only take low risks, 07:21 so you're not going to really have a lot of those problems. 07:23 Okay, so in other words, this study looks like 07:26 everybody should have their baby at home, 07:28 but that's not really what it's saying... 07:30 It's saying that the midwives or the nurse-midwives, 07:36 or whoever is doing it, are very competent about 07:38 knowing what a high-risk situation is. 07:41 Yes, they should be. 07:44 What are some of those high-risk things? 07:45 I know we may talk about that a little bit more, 07:48 but what are some of those things that they notice? 07:51 Well for example, breech or twin deliveries. 07:56 Okay so when there are 2 babies, or when it's not 07:59 positioned in the right place in the womb. 08:02 People that have hypertension, 08:05 "PIH" which would be pregnancy induced hypertension. 08:11 Gestational diabetes which would produce LARGE infants, 08:17 would be a problem to get out... 08:18 They would need to have a C- section. 08:20 All those different kinds of things. 08:22 So this does show that home births are safe, 08:27 but part of that reason is because the midwives 08:30 are competent in knowing what's not really safe, 08:32 and referring them if they need to. 08:33 Yes, they should be but then again, 08:35 we let birth take its natural course. 08:40 I think that a lot of times some of the interventions 08:43 in the hospital can cause problems also for the baby 08:48 to go into stress. 08:50 So in other words, some of the pain medication, 08:52 and some of the other different things, maybe your opinion 08:56 is that it is not as needed, 08:58 and if you wait long enough or different things. 09:00 Yes, and a lot of the doctors will tell you that. 09:05 I know that one of my doctor backups... 09:07 he is very much in favor of home births. 09:12 He thinks that low-risk individuals should be able 09:15 to have their babies at home. 09:16 Any other information that you have for us that can 09:20 answer that question people have about home births? 09:23 Yes, there's another study done that comes from 09:29 "The Journal of American Medical Association" 09:33 and they published an article in 1980 as follows... 09:50 So that was the sample, what happened is as follows... 10:09 3 of 6 home births were unattended by midwives. 10:14 The 3 deaths attended by midwives 10:16 were all due to congenital abnormalities. 10:19 So, it wasn't conducive for life anyway. 10:23 So what was the upside of their study then? 10:25 What did they mean to say by all this? 10:28 Well the author stated that low risk deliveries at home 10:33 with a trained attendant are associated with 10:36 low neonatal mortality. 10:38 There should be no reason for elimination of home delivery 10:41 as an alternative supported by the medical community. 10:44 So in other words, those numbers were pretty good. 10:46 They found that really you're doing a good job 10:51 or people like you... and you should just say that you're not. 10:56 Thanks be to God. All right, yes 11:00 Well, that's good. 11:01 And well that's quite a shot in the arm for the midwife 11:05 community and that means that you're doing your job well. 11:09 And true... thanks be to the the Lord for the whole process. 11:12 So people should feel comfortable about this 11:15 but you're not saying that everybody should 11:18 be home-delivered, right? 11:19 No, definitely not. 11:20 But for those who want that or think that, 11:25 they should know that even the medical community 11:27 looks at it and says, "Hey, you shouldn't just 11:29 eliminate that option. " 11:31 Yes, I'd say more of the medical community 11:34 is seeing that more and more. 11:37 But we definitely, even if they are low risk individuals, 11:40 and they are not comfortable, they shouldn't be 11:43 persuaded to have a home birth. 11:47 They need to be where they are most comfortable. 11:49 ...Be where they are most comfortable. Yes 11:51 You're not out there knocking on doors saying... 11:52 "Hello, I'm here"... No, definitely not. 11:56 But you're saying that for those that you do serve, 12:00 that it is something that is... Yes 12:02 That's why this is a ministry; I let the Lord lead. 12:05 I certainly am not out there trying to find pregnant women, 12:12 and some of the times, the doctors will even encourage me 12:18 to go to different communities and educate some of the 12:23 ...I've been doing a lot of seminars lately 12:25 in what they call the "Plain Communities" 12:28 ...the Amish and Mennonite communities 12:30 where they have no prenatal care; 12:32 they're not educated in a lot of the diet reform, 12:40 and a lot of their high-risk conditions could be 12:45 turned around if their lifestyle was different. 12:47 So you're really ministering to a community that 12:50 no one really has reached out to before... 12:53 So what you're doing... there wouldn't be anything 12:55 done if you weren't there, perhaps. 12:57 Well, I'd like to think others were reaching out to them... 13:02 You're very modest, I know, but it sounds to me 13:05 as I've talked to you and as seeing the ministry 13:07 you're involved in, is something that others really 13:10 are not filling that need, so we certainly appreciate that. 13:13 We're talking with Patti Barnes 13:15 a certified professional midwife. 13:17 She has delivered over 750 babies, 13:19 and she loves doing that. 13:21 She likes working in homes with people who make 13:23 that decision to help them have a 13:26 healthy delivery there at home. 13:29 She has written a new book about her experiences. 13:32 It's a delight to read, and when we come back 13:34 we're going to talk about things that 13:35 really shouldn't be done at home and look a little bit more 13:38 closely at what shouldn't be and what can be done 13:40 if you're looking at home delivery, 13:42 and we hope that you join us! 13:49 Have you found yourself wishing that you could shed a few pounds 13:52 Have you been on a diet for most of your life, 13:54 but not found anything that will really keep the weight off? 13:57 If you've answered "yes" to any of these questions, 14:01 then we have a solution for you that works! 14:04 Dr. Hans Diehl and Dr. Aileen Ludington 14:06 have written a marvelous booklet called... 14:08 "Reversing Obesity Naturally" 14:10 and we'd like to send it to you FREE of charge. 14:13 Here's a medically sound approach successfully used 14:16 by thousands who are able to eat more and lose weight 14:19 permanently without feeling guilty or hungry 14:22 through lifestyle medicine. 14:24 Dr. Diehl and Dr. Ludington have been featured on 3ABN 14:27 and in this booklet, they present a sensible approach 14:30 to eating, nutrition, and lifestyle changes 14:33 that can help you prevent heart disease, diabetes 14:35 and EVEN cancer. 14:37 Call or write today for your free copy of... 14:39 "Reversing Obesity Naturally" 14:41 and you could be on your way to a healthier, happier YOU! 14:44 It's absolutely free of charge, so call or write today. 14:50 Welcome back, we've been talking with Patti Barnes 14:53 She is a certified midwife, and you do have some 14:57 concerns about some of the things that go on in hospitals 15:00 ...although you work very closely with 15:02 physicians and hospitals. 15:03 Tell us a little bit about some of those concerns you have; 15:06 some of the interventions and things that happen 15:08 in a hospital setting that may be, even those that are 15:11 involved with a doctor... you know some places are 15:13 going to be in a hospital, they're not going to 15:15 know people like you or have midwives that could involved... 15:20 So, you know, we're going to talk about some things here 15:23 that are done that maybe could help those that are 15:24 even going to BE in the hospital. 15:25 What are some of your concerns? 15:27 Well, if when they go into the hospital, 15:31 usually they're hooked up to external monitors, 15:37 External monitor... what do you mean by that exactly. 15:39 Well, it's an external fetal monitor... Oh you have a picture 15:42 And they will be timing the contractions... 15:47 So they put those straps around the abdomen, 15:50 and is that what we're seeing there on the picture? 15:51 The top one is for the contractions, 15:54 to tell when she having her contractions, 15:57 And the lower one is to the heart tones of the baby. 16:01 So would you say that's a good idea? 16:03 Well at home we listen to the heart tones through 16:07 the fetoscope, or whatever instrument you have, 16:10 and we could find out if the baby is having distress or not. 16:16 The only thing with the external monitor, 16:19 and the next one is the internal monitor... 16:23 Okay, the same kind of thing? Yes 16:25 You need to do what they call an "amniotomy" 16:29 It's like a little fish hook that you screw into the 16:32 baby's hood of this internal monitor, 16:35 and in order to get it into the baby's head, 16:38 you've got to break the waters; 16:39 it's what they call the amniotomy. 16:41 Okay, so that's something they just put right there, 16:44 and they insert it through the opening, 16:46 and it's right next to the baby's head. 16:48 They screw it into the top of the baby's head. 16:51 And that's to give a more accurate heart rate 16:54 but it does confine you to the bed... 16:57 if you don't need to be in the bed, 16:59 and you want to have a hospital birth, 17:01 you want to be in the upright position. 17:03 When we go in the hospital, they allow us to walk around, 17:06 and just be able to walk through labor... 17:10 So your major concern with it is 17:11 not the good information it gives; 17:13 it's not the fact that it gives the heart rate; 17:16 it gives the contractions and different things... 17:18 You want the person to be able to walk around and get up. 17:21 Yes, not have to be confined to the bed necessarily. 17:25 Why is that? Why do you want them to walk around? 17:27 Because by walking, it's not as painful as it would be 17:31 laying flat on their back, but it also encourages 17:35 the cervix to dilate because the gravity 17:38 is in your favor with the baby coming down 17:41 than in the upright position. 17:43 We walk the halls and we squat, we'll breathe together, 17:47 and we do some comfort measures like massage... 17:50 Then we'll go back... like they'll say, 17:53 "Well come back every hour," 17:54 and we'll do a monitor strip for maybe 15 minutes, 17:56 and monitor the baby's heart and then they're fine with that 18:00 and then we could go and walk again 18:03 so that they're not confined... 18:07 But, of course, you couldn't do that with an internal monitor 18:09 No, you cannot do that with an internal monitor. 18:12 It would have to be that external one... 18:13 So would it be appropriate for a lady and a husband 18:17 that have a physician, they are working with a 18:19 hospital or something to say... 18:20 "Hey look, we really would like to have an external monitoring 18:24 maybe once an hour or different things when we're in there" 18:26 Yes, and I know our doctor backups agree to do that. 18:31 They are not in a high-risk situation where they 18:33 don't constantly need to be concerned... 18:36 But, we'll just go in and monitor it every once in a while 18:38 and go back out and walk, and then... 18:40 Also, they hook them up to IVs a lot... 18:44 which in the hospital where we're at 18:50 they don't hook everybody up 18:53 to IVs when it's not necessary 18:55 so if they want a natural birth they can not be restricted. 18:59 And again, the concern with that is not that they are going 19:02 to get a little extra fluid or this or that, 19:03 you just want them to be able to move around. 19:05 Yes, and be able to not have the excess interventions 19:13 because it does and can stress out the pregnant mom enough 19:19 to maybe even cause what they call psychological dystocia 19:23 Okay, problems having the baby because of 19:26 all the stuff that's going on. ... Their labor could slow down 19:28 Well, what about enemas, many times when I was in 19:30 nursing school, they'd naturally give all the ladies an enema 19:33 right when they came in. Should they do that? 19:35 Some still believe that they should have enemas. 19:39 I know that my doctor backup does not. 19:44 Why doesn't he or she do that? 19:45 Well, God has put into us a natural ability to clean out 19:51 before delivery, so that's one 19:54 of the signs that you're getting close, you're cleaning out. 19:58 And so here you have all these loose stools, 20:01 and you're getting ready for labor and you go into the 20:03 hospital, then they give you an enema when 20:06 there's hardly anything left! 20:07 Okay, so it's adding insult to injury... not really, 20:11 a birth is not an injury, but it's just 20:13 adding more stress, you're saying. 20:15 Yes, and it weakens them a little more. 20:19 Anything else that troubles you that you see that 20:23 maybe is routine in some hospital procedures? 20:25 Well, yes, in some hospitals it's routine to do 20:33 forceps deliveries... 20:35 And you have a picture of that... Yes 20:38 And so this picture here, I assume that those 20:41 tongs there in the hand, that's the forceps. Yes 20:45 But most of the time, this is practiced because 20:49 they need to be able to pull the baby out 20:53 because the lady had an epidural 20:56 which they would be numb from the waist down. 20:59 So they have that analgesia, is that what you call it... 21:03 the pain medication or different things, 21:05 and they don't even feel what's going on, 21:06 and that's why they normally used these. 21:08 Yes, it's hard to push the baby out; 21:09 they can't even feel it, so they need to use 21:12 these to pull out and if they wouldn't get 21:16 a pain relief epidural, they wouldn't probably have 21:21 to use this unless the doctor just routinely does this anyway. 21:27 ...But it could if mismanaged could cause 21:31 brachial nerve damage or palsy, partial paralysis. 21:36 The forceps - because they get over the... 21:40 what do you mean by that? How does that happen? 21:42 If it's mismanaged. All right 21:45 Scarring to the head, or anything like that or 21:48 other things? Any other problem? 21:50 It could cause bruising and... 21:53 So you're not really a big fan of either the forceps 21:57 or epidurals - it sounds like. 21:58 Well, of course, we don't use any of that at home, 22:02 but a lot of doctors are leaning toward the more 22:07 natural birth... seeing that they have less, 22:11 very low C-section rate if they do less interventions. 22:17 Okay... anything else? 22:19 Another thing that they use would be the vacuum extractor. 22:25 And this is a picture of that. ... And that's less invasive. 22:27 That's less invasive? 22:29 In a sense of less injuries. 22:32 Than... say forceps. Um hm, right 22:34 And what is this? They just put a little 22:35 suction cup on the baby's head? 22:37 The top of the baby's head and then they pull. 22:39 And what could be the problem with that... 22:41 Will they mess up the brain in the baby? 22:43 Well, it causes a... hematoma on top of the head. 22:46 A big bruise, huh. Yes 22:48 So you try and avoid that. 22:53 They try to avoid that... and again if they are 22:59 birthing natural, then they could feel when it's time 23:03 to push the baby out, and pushing the baby out 23:06 there shouldn't really be a need for that. 23:09 Also, when they use that, in order to not damage the 23:15 mother that they have to do large episiotomies, 23:18 you know what I'm saying... to reach in there to 23:20 get a hold of the baby's head. 23:22 An episiotomy is cutting in the perineum to create a 23:27 bigger opening and so they can get a hold of the baby's head... 23:31 But oftentimes when they are using this pressure, 23:35 it could cause sphincter damage or tearing to the rectum. 23:43 So any time you are cutting, or any of those different 23:46 kinds of things, you want to avoid that. Yes 23:47 I think most ladies would want to avoid that too. Yes 23:52 We just use hydrotherapy, olive oil massage... 23:58 Hot towels, olive oil massage, and just controlled breathing 24:04 to birth the baby out. 24:06 In all the 750 births, I've only had to do one episiotomy. 24:13 So 749 have been without that, completely natural. 24:21 Well what about C-sections? 24:24 Of course, we don't do anything like that. 24:25 You don't do any of those but... 24:26 In the hospital... I've only had to transport, 24:32 for C-section, two times. Two times. Uh huh 24:35 And I can tell you right now that the doctor that backs me up 24:40 he's very encouraging to me about... 24:45 He has a very low C-section rate 24:48 because he tries not to be so interventional. 24:53 So that's a major surgery, really... 24:55 So that's why you want to avoid that, 24:56 if you have a baby and you have them, 24:58 you've already had the baby, 25:00 you don't want to have to deal with 2 things maybe. Right 25:05 How can you choose a competent midwife? 25:08 What should you look for? 25:09 Well, I always feel like they need to 25:13 make sure that she has a low transport rate. 25:17 Ask her how many years of experience she has had. 25:20 Low transport rate - you mean by that, not taking a lot of 25:23 people to the hospital; able to handle things. 25:28 You know, if they are constantly transporting them, 25:30 maybe they're not screening them out enough. 25:32 Okay, then maybe they're in situations that they 25:34 shouldn't be in. Right 25:36 And does she carry medical emergency equipment? 25:40 Does she have an assistant? 25:42 Are they on call all the time where they can be reached? 25:46 And I think probably the most important thing is 25:50 to have cooperative doctor backup. 25:55 So have the physician they are working with... 25:57 have the people know that they're not out there 25:59 on their own and not just doing things on their own. 26:03 They have a team approach. 26:04 Yes, because you know if there are doctors backing them up, 26:07 they must be competent. 26:09 We have a couple of minutes left... 26:11 What is the most impressive thing to you about 26:14 home births... as you've been involved in now 750 of them. 26:17 I think the most impressive thing is to see the bonding 26:22 that takes place in the family, the mother and the father, 26:27 the children. 26:29 I think we have a picture... 26:30 I don't know if I've mentioned this to you, 26:32 but the producer here of this program just recently had a baby 26:35 and I think that we have a picture of their little baby 26:39 with bonding that I want to show you here. Yes 26:44 I think it's a BEAUTIFUL picture of bonding. 26:47 I understand that this is only 26:48 about 5 minutes after the delivery. Yes 26:52 And is that pretty typical - mom looking at the baby, 26:55 do they forget all about that labor and different things 26:57 at this time, do you find usually? 26:58 Yes, it's amazing how quick they forget right after delivery! 27:03 Now you have 2 children, do you remember 27:05 seeing them the first time? Yes I do! 27:08 Did you name them before or after they were born? 27:10 After they were born. 27:11 Okay... I think your daughter's name is 27:13 "Genesis" - yes, and your son's name is "Revelation" - - No 27:17 Jason! 27:19 Well, it's been a delight to talk with you about this. 27:22 Really, it's a natural thing that happens in the lives of 27:27 many women, but so often we don't plan for these things 27:31 like maybe we could or should. Right 27:34 It's just a very natural uplifting thing. 27:37 We've been talking with Patti Barnes 27:40 She's a certified midwife. 27:43 She has delivered over 750 babies. 27:45 She has written a new book... 27:47 "The Ministry of Midwifery" 27:49 and she has helped MANY people just have a wonderful experience 27:53 bringing a new life into the world in their home, 27:56 or working with the hospital. 27:58 We hope that what you've learned has been helpful. 28:00 God bless you. |
Revised 2014-12-17