Participants: Don Mackintosh, Neil Nedley
Series Code: HFAL
Program Code: HFAL000062
00:45 Hello and welcome to "Health for a Lifetime"
00:47 I'm your host Don Mackintosh 00:48 and today we're just delighted that 00:50 Dr. Nedley back with us. 00:51 Welcome Dr. Nedley! 00:52 Thank you, Don. Very good to be here. 00:54 Today we're going to be talking about something that's 00:58 very vital... It's very important. 00:59 It's the BRAIN! Yes 01:01 And, you know, details concerning the brain. 01:07 I understand that recently you've been working on a 01:09 book that's going to be released, 01:11 or maybe will be released by the time people see this... 01:14 about the brain, but more specifically about 01:17 depression and the brain. Yes 01:19 And so, in this segment, we want to talk a little bit about 01:23 the brain, and what about the brain? 01:26 What makes it so special? 01:27 Well the brain is actually the most complex structure 01:32 known to human beings at this time, 01:35 and when you consider the space shuttle, 01:38 when you consider all of the structures that are known to man 01:42 this 3-1/2 pound structure is actually more complex 01:47 than ANY other structure known at this point in time. 01:52 It has 100 billion neurons. 01:55 A 100 billion neurons; I don't know how you would 01:58 picture 100 billion of something. 02:00 The neurons are actually the brain cells that do 02:02 the communication... do the thinking. 02:04 There's 100 billion of them, and there's even MORE 02:07 supporting cells in the brain. 02:10 And, it's just phenomenal when you consider 02:14 that that's all just encased in 3.5 pounds. 02:17 So the DNA that's been kind of decoded and whatnot 02:24 it just pales in comparison to all the different things 02:28 that need to be decoded to understand the brain. 02:30 Yes, it really does. 02:32 Now the DNA is there in each one of the neurons, 02:35 but the amazing thing is most organs in the body 02:39 have around 10 different types of cells. 02:42 The brain has thousands of different types of cells. 02:47 So your heart would have like 5-10 different types of cells, 02:53 but the brain has THOUSANDS! 02:56 Thousands, and each one of them is different as far as their 03:00 connections are concerned, and each one of them 03:04 has an important function to play. 03:07 So, these thousand different types, 03:09 how do they communicate with each other, 03:10 and how do they get along? How does it work? 03:13 Well the average neuron in the body actually has 1,000 03:17 different connections with other neurons. 03:20 Some neurons called "Purkinje cells" 03:23 connections... 03:26 Just 1 neuron, 200,000 connections with other neurons. 03:31 So that's like going into your house and having 03:33 200,000 outlets but it's all in the size of one cell. 03:36 All in the size of one cell. Wow! 03:41 It is an incredible structure... 03:44 And then the communication actually occurs 03:47 where those synapses are... 03:49 What we call the synapse; that's where one neuron 03:52 is actually touching, as it were, another. 03:56 It actually doesn't touch, it comes very close, 03:58 and it communicates through chemistry 04:00 from one neuron to another. 04:03 Is there any electricity in the brain? 04:04 Oh yes! In fact, that's how this communication takes place, 04:09 is through electric current. 04:11 One neuron will fire electricity and at the end of that electric 04:17 current, a chemical is released to then make the other 04:21 neuron know that it has communicated with it. 04:23 So the electricity just then triggers a certain type 04:26 of chemical, it could be different in one case or another 04:29 There are different types of chemicals? 04:31 There are different types of chemicals. 04:32 There are well over a thousand different types of chemicals 04:36 actually made in the human brain that are going through 04:42 this communication process. 04:43 Amazing! We're sitting her in a studio that probably, 04:45 I don't know, it may have maybe 1,000, or 2,000, 04:49 maybe 3,000 connections... I don't know. 04:52 We have all these lights around and different things... 04:54 haven't counted them up, but that's just one cell, 04:56 and then that's amplified by... 04:59 what did you say... 100 billion! That's right. 05:04 Well, what about those different chemicals... 05:09 Can you tell us a little bit more about those. 05:10 So I understand, probably a nerve impulse comes down 05:13 sort of like a domino chain down one of those... 05:18 Explain what happens... 05:19 Well, it actually goes down the axon. 05:23 The axon is the long portion of the nerve 05:26 where the electric current is transmitted. 05:29 And then that axon then branches out sometimes 100, 05:33 sometimes 1,000, sometimes more... 05:36 into the receptacles of the other neurons. 05:40 And in that synapse area, there are a number of 05:43 chemicals that can be released. 05:45 One of the most common is glutamate. 05:47 Glutamate is a stimulating chemical... 05:51 And then there are inhibitory chemicals, 05:53 and then there are modulating chemicals... 05:56 that are very important in that synapse area, 06:00 or where one neuron is communicating with another. 06:03 So glutamate then stimulates... 06:05 Is that like, would you call it an excitotoxin? 06:10 Or maybe not a toxin, but, you know, 06:13 they have those things that they say... 06:14 If you eat them, they're going to 06:15 excite your brain or different things. 06:17 Yes, this will excite... It actually, since it's 06:20 stimulating, it's called an excitatory neurotransmitter. 06:26 But it's not a toxin. It's not a toxin. 06:28 Now, of course, in excess, it could be a toxin. 06:32 And it can actually stimulate the nerve cells so much 06:35 that it destroys the nerve cell. 06:37 But we're talking about something that is 06:40 not a healthy portion. 06:42 So when you think or you are excited, 06:45 your brain then releases a glutamate-type substance 06:48 or is it the other way around? 06:50 Well actually, the glutamate would produce the excitement. 06:55 And how that all works, we probably don't 06:57 understand yet, do we? 06:58 There's much about the brain we don't understand. 07:01 We're actually piece-by-piece unfolding 07:04 more mysteries as the weeks go by. 07:06 So what would dopamine be? 07:08 Dopamine is actually a modulating chemical. 07:12 It doesn't stimulate, and it doesn't inhibit. 07:14 It actually modulates, and to illustrate this 07:18 glutamate would be playing the flute, providing the air 07:24 to produce the sound... 07:27 And the dopamine would be playing the keys 07:30 in order to make the melody of that sound. 07:32 It would be the placement of those. 07:34 So dopamine, that's something we normally hear about 07:37 and, you know, we normally hear that it kind of 07:40 soothes us, and all those different kinds of things, 07:43 and is that correct? 07:45 Well, dopamine has a modulating effect. 07:48 It can have a soothing effect in certain instances, 07:50 but it can also be very important in regards to motion. 07:54 Those that don't have enough dopamine 07:56 end up with Parkinson disease, 07:58 and that causes a stiff walking gait, 08:01 a stooped over gait, and actually, a decreased ability 08:05 for the entire brain to function very well. 08:08 So, we have some public officials in government now 08:15 that have Parkinson disease; 08:16 we hear about that from time to time. 08:18 The fluidity of movement and the tremors and whatnot 08:22 that's all related to that, 08:23 but can they still think things through well? 08:26 They can think things through 08:28 pretty well up to a certain point... 08:30 And then in the later stages of Parkinson disease, 08:33 it actually causes dementia which means an inability 08:37 to be able to think things through clearly. 08:40 So the dopamine then probably is just a 08:43 pretty big part of the brain... 08:44 How much of the brain then has that capacity? 08:48 You would think it would be a very important aspect of 08:51 just about every neuron... 08:52 Gotta have the "dope.. amine" 08:53 I mean, the dopamine, right? 08:55 Actually, only 200,000 neurons produce dopamine. 09:00 200,000? You said there was over a billion, that's not very many. 09:03 Yeah, 100 billion, so 200,000 to 100 billion 09:07 is a VERY small amount of neurons producing dopamine. 09:10 But when you consider that each one of the neurons has about 09:15 a thousand ways in which it can have that 09:18 dopamine communicate with another nerve cell, 09:21 and then those nerve cells have a thousand ways 09:24 of communicating with other nerve cells, 09:28 if you have the dopamine content lowered in those 09:30 200,000 cells, it can have almost an entire brain effect 09:35 as far as its impact. 09:38 So even though there's a small amount of cells that 09:41 produce dopamine, if they don't they're so well-connected 09:44 that everything comes to a 09:46 grinding halt, so-to-speak. Correct 09:48 Wow, that's sort of like, you know, we study in the Bible 09:52 and we see the remnant, and we see how important 09:55 the remnant were throughout the Scriptures. 09:57 The dopamine would probably be sort of like the remnant. 10:00 That would be a good illustration... 10:02 A very small portion, but having 10:05 a profound effect upon the entire brain. 10:08 So, are there treatments when we have Parkinson disease, 10:12 and those different kinds of things that they're developing 10:14 Well there are treatments, yes... 10:15 we try to provide more dopamine. 10:17 And, of course, we can do that through chemistry 10:20 of providing more dopamine intake, 10:24 and then part of that dopamine goes to the brain, 10:27 and then that dopamine can then be used 10:29 to communicate with one nerve cell. 10:31 However, that's not all that great a mechanism. 10:35 It does work... we have ways of trying to get more 10:38 dopamine in, and even what we call "dopamine agonist" 10:41 which ACT like dopamine in the nerve cell. 10:44 But we're just providing it in the neuronal junction 10:47 without the nerve cell itself producing it, 10:50 and releasing it... 10:52 And so, that gets into some side effects, and that's why 10:56 all Parkinson's medications can have side-effects. 11:00 If we could get the nerve cell itself to produce it and 11:03 release it when it's supposed to, we could have a treatment 11:06 that would have no side-effects. 11:08 Yeah, in taking care of some Parkinson's patients, 11:12 I've noticed that they will be on a certain medication 11:15 for a certain amount of time, like Sinemet, or whatever, 11:18 they use nowadays, I'm not sure... 11:20 and then they have to go off. 11:21 they still have to go off of that for a while 11:23 because they have those reactions. 11:26 Well, so we have the stimulating; 11:28 we have the modulating, and then we had the inhibitory. 11:31 What would be a common inhibitory thing that maybe 11:33 we've heard of before that you could explain to us? 11:36 Well, there's a relative of glutamate... 11:39 It's probably not well-known that it 11:41 actually is an inhibitory chemical. 11:43 There's actually more inhibitory chemicals, 11:45 than there are excitatory chemicals in the brain. 11:48 The brain is also meant to have an important function 11:53 that being a BREAK on behavior, 11:55 and a BREAK on overstimulation... 11:58 And so there are several inhibitory chemicals 12:01 to try to prevent glutamate from getting out of control. 12:04 So it is a balance of powers. 12:05 It's just like, sort of, the government over the system... 12:08 The brain kind of helps us... It's our legislative branches, 12:12 so-to-speak! 12:14 Yes, it's very important for there to be 12:17 a balance in the brain. 12:18 And a balance in many forms. 12:21 You know, there are just 3 balances in our government 12:25 here in the United States; 12:26 there's a lot more balance taking place in the human brain. 12:29 So we've talked about how complex the brain is... 12:33 We've talked about the different over 100 billion 12:36 different types of neurons with over 1,000 connections; 12:42 some have 2,000 connections each. 12:44 We've talked about the different chemicals that are released. 12:47 Some with 200,000 connections actually. 12:50 We're going to take a break here in just a minute, 12:53 but let's introduce something that we want to talk about 12:55 This is amazing... the Bible says we're 12:57 fearfully and wonderfully made... 12:59 And certainly with a brain, that is true, 13:02 but is there any flexibility? 13:05 Does it HAVE to work this way or that way? 13:10 Is the brain pretty much, you know, you take your computer 13:12 and you get... here is some rapid access memory, 13:15 here's some RAM memory. 13:16 We're just going to put that in, 13:18 and that's the way it's gotta work, 13:19 and if it's not there, it's not going to work. 13:20 Does the brain have any flexibility? 13:22 Yes, it has a lot of flexibility, 13:24 and that's really what makes it different from these 13:26 simple computers that are being used today. 13:29 I say "simple" because we look at the new computers, 13:32 and say, "Wow, how much better 13:33 and how much more complex they are. " 13:35 But, in relationship to the human brain, 13:38 they are very, very simple structures. 13:42 We've been talking with Dr. Neil Nedley, 13:44 and we've been talking about the AMAZING brain. 13:47 We've talked about how complex it is. 13:48 We've talked about... well, lots of different things 13:52 about it, but the most interesting thing 13:54 we've just been mentioning is that there is some 13:55 flexibility in the brain, and it can do different things... 13:59 And when we come back, we're going to find out more 14:00 about those different things, so we hope you join us! 14:05 Have you found yourself wishing that you could 14:06 shed a few pounds? 14:08 Have you been on a diet for most of your life, 14:10 but not found anything that will really keep the weight off? 14:13 If you've answered "yes" to any of these questions, 14:16 then we have a solution for you that works. 14:19 Dr. Hans Diehl and Dr. Aileen Ludington 14:22 have written a marvelous booklet called... 14:24 "Reversing Obesity Naturally" 14:26 and we'd like to send it to you FREE of charge. 14:29 Here's a medically sound approach successfully used 14:31 by thousands who are able to eat more and lose weight 14:35 permanently without feeling guilty or hungry 14:37 through lifestyle medicine. 14:39 Dr. Diehl and Dr. Ludington have been featured on 3ABN 14:43 and in this booklet, they present a sensible 14:45 approach to eating, nutrition and lifestyle changes 14:48 that can help you prevent heart disease, 14:50 diabetes and EVEN cancer. 14:52 Call or write today for your free copy of 14:54 "Reversing Obesity Naturally" 14:56 and you could be on your way to a healthier, happier YOU! 14:59 It's absolutely FREE of charge, so call or write today. 15:06 Welcome back, we've been talking with Dr. Neil Nedley, 15:09 and we're talking about the brain. 15:12 You had mentioned something that was fascinating before we left; 15:15 that the brain really has some flexibility, 15:17 and that gives us hope! 15:20 We don't have to just be... 15:21 It's an organic organism; it can reposition as to what we need. 15:26 Yes, actually just a thought process itself can actually 15:31 weaken some associations with other neurons, and strengthen 15:36 other associations with other neurons. 15:39 And, a memory, a thought to produce some memory 15:42 can actually disconnect a neuron from some other neurons, 15:47 and then actually have that neuron be associated with others 15:51 And so we have the ability, so-to-speak, of having this 15:56 brain be VERY flexible. 15:58 It's not like a computer where its circuits are there, 16:03 and the only way you're going to change it is to go in 16:05 and do surgery on the computer which would be having your 16:08 hardware person come in and do things. 16:10 You can actually have the thoughts themselves 16:14 change the makeup of the brain! 16:16 So that's what unplugs and plugs things back in, 16:19 and so our thoughts, and what we focus on, 16:22 and what we think about is very important! 16:23 Very important... particularly when those 16:26 thoughts become habitual. 16:28 Habitual thoughts, there are very... 16:31 we could call them expressways, or interstate highways 16:36 which are well-traveled, and once we get into a habit, 16:40 we have interstate highways in our brain that are NOT 16:44 easily destroyed unless we go a different route 16:48 and don't travel that highway for a very long time. 16:51 So how can we be delivered about that as, you know, 16:54 we hear a lot about the different right brain/left brain 16:56 and all this kind of different kind of things... 16:58 How can we be delivered about having a healthy brain? 17:02 I'd like to say there's been an over-emphasis, really 17:05 on this left brain/right brain things. 17:08 I hear some individuals, and even some scientists 17:12 talk about this, and there is some truth... 17:15 the left brain tends to be more objective; 17:17 the right brain tends to be more creative. 17:19 But that is an over-simplification 17:22 of the process. 17:23 The frontal lobe is to be the control center 17:26 of the entire brain, whether it's the left or the right brain 17:30 And the left side of the frontal lobe, 17:32 and the right side of the frontal lobe have some 17:33 very similar functions, and try to simplify 17:39 the brain by breaking it up into these 2 sides, 17:42 is really doing a disservice to it. 17:45 Doesn't understand the complexity of all 17:47 those different connections that we talked about. Exactly 17:50 Okay, I imagine then, do we need to talk anything more 17:56 about the different lobes of the brain and what they do 17:58 in talking about complexity of the brain? 18:01 Well, there are specialized areas of the brain... 18:04 The occipital lobe, for instance the back portion of the 18:07 human brain, is actually where your vision is centered... 18:11 But it's much more than just a visual area. 18:15 It actually takes a look at where things are in space, 18:18 the color that they are, the hue that is coming in, 18:22 and also it's very important in regards to geometric skills, 18:28 and even spatial engineering-type skills 18:30 involve the occipital lobe. 18:32 So anything to do with spatial orientation, colors, 18:37 and those type of things would involve the occipital lobe... 18:40 so geometry, all those different kind of things... 18:42 Do you develop... is balance back there too? 18:44 Balance is even further back and it's a little lower. 18:48 It's in what we call the "cerebellum. " 18:50 And, this is a very important area, particularly for certain 18:54 creatures such as monkeys that are very athletic, 19:00 and very smooth in their going upside-down, 19:03 swinging by their tail, etcetera. 19:05 And our athletes of today have to have well-developed 19:08 cerebellums in order to be good in their athletic sport. 19:11 With all this complexity, I'm sure there could be problems. 19:14 Oh yes, problems develop. 19:18 In fact, problems more commonly than you might 19:20 imagine, Don. 19:22 Only 22% of individuals, from the time they were born, 19:26 will have a mental illness at some time during their lifetime. 19:31 So 22 out of 100 people are going to have, 19:32 what we would call, a mental illness. 19:34 What do you mean by a mental illness? 19:36 A mental illness is beyond just feeling blue, 19:39 or just having a personality problem. 19:43 All of us, I would say, and probably 100% of us 19:46 are going to end up in some problem with our brain itself... 19:50 But that doesn't mean that we're going to have 19:51 a mental illness, per se... 19:54 That just means that we got off the right track, 19:58 and we had problems, as far as the brain development, 20:01 and making appropriate decisions, etcetera. 20:04 But a mental illness goes beyond that. 20:06 A mental illness would involve, for instance, major depression.. 20:10 where instead of just feeling sad or empty, we also 20:13 have a constellation of symptoms that bring about this 20:17 major depression. 20:18 We also have schizophrenia, bipolar disorder, 20:22 affective disorders such as anxiety disorders, 20:26 which can produce what we call obsessive compulsive disorders, 20:31 phobias, or even chronic anxiety in and of itself. 20:37 These are disease processes of 20:41 the brain that need special attention. 20:43 The good news about these diseases though, Don, 20:46 is that about 90% of them are actually reversible 20:51 through finding the cause, and getting on the 20:54 appropriate treatment. 20:56 Okay, so you gave us a lot to think about there... 20:59 22 out of every 100 people are going to have this 21:02 at some time in their lives; 21:03 some major depression... 21:06 Well let's talk about that... What about major depression? 21:08 How many of that 22% are going to have the major depression? 21:11 10% of individuals will develop major depression. 21:15 So that's a BIGGIE! That's a biggie. 21:17 And I know that you're actually writing a new book on that 21:22 because you see so much of that, and we want to talk 21:23 a little bit more about that. 21:27 And then, how does it breakdown after that? 21:29 Well actually, the most common 21:32 mental illness is chronic anxiety. 21:34 We'll deal with that as well in our book... 21:38 and it does have a tie-in with depression. 21:40 About half of patients with 21:42 chronic anxiety will end up with depression. 21:45 And then other common disorders are 21:46 obsessive compulsive disorder... 21:48 Meaning just a certain routine you can't get away from, 21:52 or you have to do it this way or else 21:54 you have a lot of anxiety as a result. That's right, exactly. 21:56 And then there are simple phobias... 22:00 You know, fear of being in enclosed spaces, for instance. 22:04 What about fear of snakes? 22:05 No, fear of snakes is not classified as a mental illness. 22:10 It's very good to be afraid of snakes. 22:13 Well, I know that some people watching today will be 22:15 very happy that that's not. 22:17 What would be a bad phobia? 22:21 Like you said, fear of people? 22:22 Would that be considered a mental illness? 22:25 Yes, fear of people is actually a classified mental illness 22:29 where you have fear of actually getting in a group of people, 22:33 or a fear of even going to a social encounter 22:36 because of that phobia, unnatural. 22:40 So you said something very encouraging though 22:42 that 90% of these can be reversed. 22:44 Let's talk about the discouraging first part of 22:47 that statement, and let's talk about the encouraging next. 22:49 The discouraging part is that 10% that can't be. 22:52 What's that 10% that really can't be addressed? 22:55 Well actually 10% in regards 22:57 to standard ways of looking at this. 23:00 I actually am more optimistic. 23:02 I think there's probably, a far greater than a 90% chance... 23:07 if we really take a look at the root cause, 23:09 and try to find the cause of these diseases, 23:11 I think we'll do a lot better than even 90%. 23:14 But out of those that 10% or less, 23:17 a lot of it has to do with how their brain was formed 23:21 during the time when it was in the mother's womb. 23:25 So some genetic things, some things that come as 23:28 result of drug abuse by the parents, those kinds of things 23:31 where the wiring... the 1,000 circuits per cell 23:35 are just not there... that kind of thing. Right 23:38 And that's what accounts for that 10% that 23:40 it's a little bit more problematic in reversing it 23:44 without divine intervention which, of course, 23:47 God can do ANYTHING! Exactly 23:50 And, the other thing I would like to bring out is 23:53 even though you have the genetic basis for mental illness 23:56 does not mean you're in that 10%. 23:59 If your mother and father were both depressed, 24:01 or even if they both committed suicide, 24:03 that does not mean that you are resigned to get 24:06 major depression, no matter what you do in your lifetime. 24:08 And you hear that a lot... 24:10 A lot of people say, "Well they committed suicide so 24:12 you must be headed that way. " 24:15 But, for the person that's listening today, 24:17 that's just not true. No, it's not true! 24:19 It does make them have a greater tendency, 24:22 BUT if they actually get on the proper program, 24:26 lifestyle-wise, and thought process-wise, 24:28 they can completely avoid the major depression 24:31 that their parents had. 24:32 Does this mean medication... 24:34 when you say reversing it, does that mean medication 24:37 in that 90% of the cases that are going to be reversed? 24:40 It could mean medication for the short-term. 24:43 In some cases, it might mean medication for the long-term. 24:47 But, in dealing with major depression, for instance, 24:50 we're able to get major depressed patients 24:53 OFF of their medication in about 90% of cases, 24:56 and NOT have a relapse into their depression... 24:59 if we get to the cause, and put them on the right 25:02 lifestyle and nutrition treatment program. 25:06 Dr. Nedley, you're a Christian physician. 25:07 I mean, that's one of the great benefits, 25:10 and I understand that in medical schools across the country, 25:12 they now even have all these seminars on spirituality, 25:17 they're bringing all of this in, and I think that they 25:20 don't pick and choose between religions and different things, 25:23 but as a CHRISTIAN physician, 25:26 what have you seen in the research and whatnot 25:29 that kind of ties this all together 25:32 in terms of addressing it? 25:33 What brings this all together, Don, is where scientists 25:38 are converging on the area of the brain that tends to 25:42 bring out all of these mental disorders... 25:44 and that is the frontal lobe of the brain. 25:47 The frontal lobe of the brain is now the 25:50 CENTER of where depression originates from. 25:53 Before, we used to think it was the emotional area 25:56 of the brain because depression has so much to do with emotions. 25:59 But actually, it's due to the control center of the brain... 26:03 having a decrease in circulation and a decrease in activity 26:07 that brings about depression. 26:08 I happened to listen to the top bipolar researcher 26:13 in the United States just a few weeks ago, 26:16 and he says that bipolar disorder, we are now finding out 26:20 is originating in the frontal lobe of the brain. 26:22 Schizophrenia has to do with the frontal lobe of the brain. 26:25 And just about every one of these mental illnesses 26:28 converge on the frontal lobe of the brain 26:31 a problem with the control center that then brought about 26:34 the mental illness. 26:36 And, as a Christian physician, what is meaningful to me 26:39 here is the frontal lobe is the CENTER of morality, 26:43 spirituality and the will. 26:45 Without the frontal lobe, there is no spiritual person, 26:48 there is no will. 26:49 And so, this is vitally important to understanding 26:56 these mental illnesses and treating them. 26:58 So and in treating this, the 22% of Americans 27:01 that have mental illness, and you have given us 27:04 OPTIMISTIC words that 90 and even more than that 27:08 90% or more of them can REVERSE this... 27:13 What should they do to build their frontal lobe 27:16 to either prevent or perhaps REVERSE these mental illnesses? 27:22 Well in a statement, it would eating appropriately, 27:26 drinking appropriately, being on the appropriate lifestyle, 27:30 and thinking appropriately. 27:33 That sounds like a Bible text! 27:35 Whatsoever you do... whatever you eat, whatever you drink, 27:40 whatever you do, do all to the the glory of God. Wonderful! 27:45 Thank you so much for joining us, Dr. Nedley. 27:47 And thank YOU for joining us. 27:49 We hope that what you've learned has been a help to you. 27:51 If you want more information about Dr. Nedley's book, 27:54 call 3ABN, and we hope you join us next time! |
Revised 2014-12-17