Participants: Zeno Charles - Marcel, Don Mackintosh
Series Code: HFAL
Program Code: HFAL000074
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00:44 Hello and welcome to Health for a Lifetime.
00:47 I'm glad that you've joined us today and I'm also glad that 00:50 Dr. Zeno Charles-Marcel is with us. 00:52 Welcome, Doctor. 00:53 Thank you, it's good to be here. 00:55 We're going to be talking today about a subject that really 00:59 touches the lives of many Americans, 01:01 that being heart disease. 01:02 And heart disease, I believe, is the number one 01:05 killer in America, is that right? 01:06 It is the number one killer, that is correct. 01:07 But today you're probably saying "We've heard a lot about 01:09 heart disease. " 01:10 Not today's program you haven't heard about! 01:13 Because we're going to be talking about heart disease and 01:16 little known factors that relate to heart disease. 01:19 We're going to review some of the regular ones but we're going 01:21 to look at some little known ones and it will be well worth 01:23 your while to stay. 01:25 Now if you're watching today and you need to have information 01:27 about how to get a hold of the Lifestyle Center of America 01:30 one of the best ways is over the internet - 01:33 www. lifestylecenter. org or you can call us here at 01:40 Three Angels Broadcasting Network and we can give you 01:43 the contact information over the phone. 01:45 But that's fairly easy to remember - lifestyle center. 01:49 You treat heart disease there as it relates to lifestyle. 01:52 Isn't that right? 01:53 That's correct. 01:54 And we have the principle of working with first things first. 01:57 So lifestyle is very important in preventing and in treating 02:01 heart disease - particularly the atherosclerotic heart disease 02:05 which is the kind that is responsible for most of the 02:09 death in this country. 02:11 So you are a doctor of internal medicine, that means you deal 02:14 with a lot of patients that are very acute situations, ICU or 02:18 intensive care, or cardiac care units, in hospital settings, 02:23 those types of things. 02:24 Then you also do things that can help people avoid that. 02:27 And the thing that has come up recently, probably within 02:30 the last 40 years or so has been this whole idea of 02:33 risk factors. 02:34 What is a risk factor and what are the common risk factors 02:37 for heart disease? 02:38 A risk factor is just some thing or some attribute that a person 02:41 may have or maybe in contact with that increases the person's 02:45 likelihood of getting a disease or getting a condition. 02:49 The typical risk factors that most people would already be 02:53 familiar with for heart disease include things like: 02:57 cigarette smoking, lack of exercise or what I call 02:59 slothfulness, high cholesterol, some of their family history, 03:06 so if they have a parent or a brother or sister who has 03:11 premature heart disease then they are at increased risk 03:14 for having heart disease as well, obesity, diabetes, 03:17 high blood pressure. 03:18 These are all typical risk factors. 03:21 How many risk factors do you know of? 03:23 Someone told me there was over than 20 now that they have 03:25 identified. 03:26 Actually there are over 20. 03:27 Some of them are major risk factors and some are 03:30 minor risk factors. 03:31 What I would like to do today is to talk a little bit about 03:36 some of the less well known but still very important 03:39 risk factors. 03:40 Well, let's talk about those. 03:41 What are some of the less known but very important risk factors? 03:44 One of them is homocysteine and that we could have one or two 03:49 programs just talking about that. 03:50 But high homocysteine levels in the blood is a risk factor 03:55 for heart disease. 03:56 This was known around the same time that cholesterol was coming 03:59 on the picture, on the screen. 04:01 But cholesterol kind of eclipsed the homocysteine stuff and 04:07 that didn't reemerge as a serious problem until just a 04:11 few years ago. 04:12 None the less homocysteine is an amino acid or one of the 04:15 building blocks of the proteins that can build up in our blood 04:19 and it is associated with an increased risk of heart attacks 04:23 and of strokes. 04:24 So what does it do? 04:25 Your homocysteine is in your blood and it's cruising around 04:28 in it's little car - what does it do? 04:29 Does it slam into the wall, break the windows, got a 04:33 sledge hammer in it's hand - what does it do? 04:35 As far as we can tell, what it does it irritates the lining 04:38 of the blood vessel walls and penetrates the blood vessel 04:42 wall to set up a reaction in there. 04:44 And that reaction then is an atherosclerotic reaction or 04:49 it develops a plaque. 04:51 That plaque then can rupture and cause a stroke if it's one 04:54 of the arteries in the neck or in the brain or if the artery is 04:59 is in the heart then it can cause heart attack. 05:01 So are there like foods that we eat that are high in 05:04 homocysteine or what is it that causes it to elevate? 05:07 There are some foods that are high in another amino acid 05:10 that then leads to homocysteine being high. 05:12 Those foods are foods that are high in the 05:16 amino acid methionine 05:18 Now methionine is found abundantly in foods of animal 05:23 origin or flesh foods - so meats, milk, cheese, and eggs - 05:27 they tend to be higher in methionine than foods of 05:31 plant based. 05:32 Now that's the methionine side. 05:35 But there are some other factors such as lack of some of their 05:39 vitamins like vitamin B6, vitamin B12, and folic acid. 05:42 If you don't have this in your diet or it's not adequate in 05:47 the diet, then that can lead to an accumulation of the 05:50 homocysteine which is produced by the methionine. 05:53 Ok, so let's talk about that a minute. 05:55 The B12 then being something that many times we hear 05:58 vegetarians don't get enough of are those who are on 06:00 plant based foods. 06:01 Does that mean they are at more risk for their homocysteine 06:04 going up? 06:05 Some people it would be if they absolutely aren't getting 06:10 vitamin B12 enough in their diet and not supplementing it either. 06:14 Those people would be at increased risk of having higher 06:17 homocysteine levels. 06:18 What people usually don't realize is that the body 06:21 does not make vitamin B12. 06:23 Animals don't make vitamin B12. 06:26 We have to get vitamin B12 from something that we ingest. 06:29 For people who eat meat, when they eat the meat they get the 06:33 vitamin B12 from the meat or they drink milk and they get 06:35 it that way. 06:36 For people who are total vegetarians the best way 06:42 to get it is to supplement it in the diet using one of these 06:46 little easily available supplements that will be 06:49 dissolved in the mouth. 06:50 So like a B complex vitamin? 06:54 Actually I don't recommend using B complex vitamins because 07:00 those are usually in pills that people swallow. 07:02 B12 to be most effective ought to be best 07:06 dissolved in the mouth. 07:08 So there are B12 preparations either liquids, some are sprays 07:12 or some are just these little dots that you can crush, and 07:16 the amount that you need is really very small, 07:18 very little bit. 07:19 It's. 1 micro grams per day somebody needs and that's 07:22 a really small amount. 07:23 One of the ways that I tell patients that they can take this 07:26 is to get some B12 supplement, crush it, keep it in a little 07:30 vile on the dining table or kitchen counter and once a day 07:37 take a clean toothpick, stick it into this crushed tablet, 07:43 whatever is stuck on the toothpick that's about how much 07:45 you need for the day. 07:47 And then of course you discard the toothpick. 07:49 What about these other substitute milks and different 07:54 things that have B12 in them? 07:55 If they have the B12 supplemented then of course 07:58 that's a way to get it as well. 08:00 Now, just a question, and we're asking because it relates to 08:03 homocysteine. 08:05 Because if you're low in that then that elevates, like you 08:08 mentioned, in the blood stream. 08:10 Where do the animals get their vitamin B12? 08:13 They get their vitamin B12 from the bacteria that they have or 08:18 if it's a carnivorous animal it will get it from animals 08:22 that it eats. 08:23 Ok, just wondered where they got that. 08:26 So, homocysteine then needs to be low. 08:28 Do you at the Lifestyle Center of America 08:31 check for homocysteine? 08:33 We check just about every patient that comes through our 08:35 center who is at risk for a coronary artery disease or 08:39 atherosclerosis. 08:40 We check their homocysteine levels which means most of the 08:42 people who come there. 08:43 We also have a good track record in terms of what happens even 08:49 within 7 days of the homocysteines being lowered 08:54 significantly in most of the people who come through 08:57 just by changing their lifestyle to the way we do. 09:00 This was published in the 09:01 Journal of the American Medical Association 09:03 back in 1997. 09:05 Is that right? 09:06 If you're wanting to lower that homocysteine level 09:10 the Lifestyle Center of America or a program similar to that 09:13 would be helpful. 09:14 What are some other less known but very important risk factors 09:17 for heart disease? 09:18 Another one that has emerged recently was kind of suspected 09:23 maybe 10-15 years ago and more and more we see greater evidence 09:27 of that, is infection by an organism called 09:31 Chlamydia pneumonia. 09:33 Now this is a bug that we can pick up in a variety of ways. 09:38 The most important being through sexual transmission. 09:42 This bug then sets up an inflammatory response on the 09:48 person's arteries. 09:49 Then responding to this inflammation develops 09:53 atherosclerosis. 09:55 So extra marital affairs of the heart are bad for the heart. 10:00 That's correct. 10:01 Ok, you put it that way. - laughter - 10:02 Besides then the sexually transmitted diseases, which 10:07 I think they're a very large problem in America. 10:10 I know that when I worked in an emergency department 10:12 as a nurse, we saw a lot of people with Chlamydia. 10:15 How big a problem is this Chlamydia in America? 10:19 It's a fairly sizable problem. 10:21 Most people who are working in the field realize that 10:25 herpes is probably number one and Chlamydia is a close 10:30 number two. 10:31 Now, Chlamydia, then what does it do? 10:32 Does it get into your heart? 10:34 It doesn't have to get into the heart necessarily, but it 10:37 circulates in the blood. 10:38 And its circulation in the blood somehow triggers the 10:42 inflammatory response so the body is reacting against the 10:45 Chlamydia actually is what seems to stimulate the production of 10:52 atherosclerotic plaque or hardening of the arteries. 10:54 Now we have been able to isolate Chlamydia type particles in 11:00 atherosclerotic plaque as well as finding other markers of 11:06 inflammation of the inflammatory response in the blood. 11:08 The higher these markers are for inflammation often times the 11:12 higher the risk of heart disease. 11:15 So I'm sure the sexually transmitted diseases of course 11:18 probably effect a lot of ages, but probably those that are 11:22 young that are just starting out thinking about those kind of 11:25 things, they probably just don't understand that what they could 11:29 do as a young person can be affecting their heart. 11:31 They can develop heart disease from it. 11:32 That's correct. 11:33 My advise to any young person is the best way is 11:38 the Bible way. 11:39 That is you stay away from sexual activity until the 11:43 appropriate time which is when you are married. 11:45 We have about 2 minutes and you have a another couple here. 11:50 What are the other less known but important factors before 11:53 we go to our break? 11:54 Well, one of the issues, and perhaps we can spend a great 11:58 deal of time talking about this one is stress. 12:02 In the past, people knew about the Type A personality and so on 12:06 and the fact that people are under a lot of stress seemed 12:09 to have more problems with coronary artery disease 12:13 or atherosclerosis, heart attacks and others. 12:15 This has been shown to be not quite as true 12:19 as it was thought before. 12:21 So just because I get things done and I'm driven and all that 12:24 doesn't mean I'm necessarily going to have heart disease? 12:26 That's correct, it doesn't mean that you're going to have 12:28 heart disease... 12:29 The CEO's, the Leo Koko types, or the others that are in charge 12:32 of the big corporations are they usually in good health? 12:34 Well, some of them actually have very good health programs 12:40 in that they follow a very disciplined pattern - 12:43 they exercise, they eat more appropriately. 12:46 You'd be surprised that the health of many of the executive 12:52 types is actually quite good because these people are paying 12:57 attention to what keeps them in tip-top shape so that their 13:00 minds can be clear so they can be thinking and making critical 13:03 decisions as best as they can. 13:04 So everybody really should be thinking like a CEO. 13:08 You are in charge, your are the chief executive officer 13:12 of all those cells in your body, over the one billion neurons 13:16 in your brain, you are important. 13:18 Ok, so stress then is important but it's more as it relates 13:22 to different factors other than Type A personality and what not. 13:25 That's correct. 13:26 In 1972 there were two researchers that came up with a 13:30 Type A issue. 13:31 That was found a few years later to not really pan out. 13:35 And another group, the Western Kilometer Study Group, actually 13:39 demonstrated that there's another set of factors 13:44 within the set of individuals who have Type A personality 13:47 that actually might be the thing that produces the heart disease. 13:53 We're talking with Dr. Zeno Charles-Marcel 13:55 and he has some other factors that are very important that 13:59 he has not revealed to us concerning heart disease. 14:01 They're very important and so we hope that you join us 14:04 when we come back. 14:08 Have you found yourself wishing that you could 14:09 shed a few pounds? 14:10 Have you been on a diet for most of your life? 14:13 But not found anything that will really keep the weight off? 14:16 If you've answered yes to any of these questions, then we 14:19 have a solution for you that works. 14:22 Dr. Hans Diehl and Dr. Aileen Ludington 14:24 have written a marvelous booklet called, 14:27 Reversing Obesity Naturally, and we'd like to send it to you 14:30 free of charge. 14:31 Here's a medically sound approach successfully used 14:35 by thousands who are able to eat more 14:37 and loose weight permanently 14:38 without feeling guilty or hungry through lifestyle medicine. 14:42 Dr. Diehl and Dr. Ludington have been featured on 3ABN 14:46 and in this booklet they present a sensible approach to eating, 14:49 nutrition, and lifestyle changes that can help you prevent 14:52 heart disease, diabetes, and even cancer. 14:55 Call or write today for your free copy: 15:07 Welcome back. 15:09 We're talking with Dr. Zeno Charles-Marcel 15:11 from the Lifestyle Center of America 15:13 there in beautiful Oklahoma positioned right there on the 15:17 top of that beautiful mountain and all those trees 15:20 and different things. 15:21 People just get healthy even seeing pictures of that 15:23 sometimes. 15:24 So we're told. 15:25 And you get to live there and to minister there. 15:29 We've been talking about heart disease, about risk factors that 15:32 all of us know about - high blood pressure, obesity, 15:36 diabetes, all these different kind of things. 15:39 But then you started to identify some less known but very 15:44 important risk factors, those being Chlamydia, homocysteine, 15:48 inflammatory processes that are involved with that, and then 15:52 we introduced stress. 15:53 But there was something about stress that we kind of left 15:56 that's very important. 15:58 What is that very important thing that we can't be involved 16:04 with if we want to avoid heart disease? 16:06 Let me set the stage a little bit. 16:08 Let's suppose, the viewers at home, let's suppose you had a 16:13 very important appointment and you had to take a flight before 16:19 you got to your appointment to get there in time. 16:21 Now you schedule the flight so you get there a half hour 16:25 before. 16:26 You had arranged for somebody to pick you up and take you to 16:28 your important appointment. 16:30 Ok, I think I've been there before. 16:33 Alright, so everything is working alright. 16:35 They call for people to enter the plane on time... 16:39 This must be not like my normal carrier - laughter - 16:42 Everything is working out fine except as you're getting on the 16:47 plane, you realize that they are having a little scurry because 16:51 someone who is supposed to be on the plane is running late. 16:55 Oh, and they tell you that. 16:57 And you find out, you hear them talking, and when you see 17:01 here comes this person coming along with multiple packages. 17:05 Those in the overhead bin and underneath and underneath 17:09 your bin... 17:10 I mean much too much. 17:12 I have met this person! - laughter - 17:14 Have you ever been that person? 17:15 Ohhh - I hate to say I think I probably have! - laughter - 17:20 So here comes the person and the attendants try to expedite 17:25 the situation. 17:26 You have gone on the plane. 17:28 You're sitting down. 17:29 You know it's time for them to close the doors. 17:32 The person comes on the plane. 17:35 They're not finding a seat. 17:37 They're trying to stuff things up over the overhead bins. 17:40 They're trying to stuff things underneath and things just 17:43 aren't working out. 17:45 Now I have been in that flight! 17:47 Right! 17:48 Now how are you feeling as I'm talking about this? 17:51 Ahhh... I'm feeling a little anxious! 17:56 Ok, a little bit anxious. 17:57 I'm feeling a little bit frustrated! 17:58 All right, finally the person is sat down... 18:02 And they sit right next to you! 18:03 Maybe! - Laughter - 18:05 And now the plane backs out. 18:10 You head down the runway and as you're taxing out you stop. 18:15 The plane broke? 18:18 The plane stopped... no, nothing broken. 18:19 You wait. 18:20 So you're not hearing anything from the pilot - nothing. 18:24 You look at your watch. 18:26 Minutes are ticking by. 18:28 You don't hear anything. 18:29 Finally the pilot comes on and the pilot says something like 18:34 this, "Ladies and gentlemen, we're sorry to inform you but 18:39 because of our delay in pushing back from the terminal we lost 18:44 our slot and it looks as though it's going to be about 18:46 15 minutes before we can get back into the queue. " 18:48 And you say? 18:50 15 minutes plus we already lost some time! 18:55 How are you feeling? 18:57 "Perfect peace have they that love Thy law and nothing 19:01 shall offend them. " 19:03 I'm looking at those texts right now and I'm 19:06 claiming those promises. 19:07 Ok. 19:08 So the flight takes off and everything is working all right. 19:10 The pilot says, "Look, it looks as though we have a tail wind. 19:13 We're going to be getting there actually on time. 19:16 So what we lost, don't worry about it, we're going to be 19:19 getting there on time. " 19:20 How does that sound to you now? 19:21 Ohhhh, I'm feeling much better! 19:23 Oh, relief! 19:24 I'm saying, "Why did I spend all of that energy being upset?" 19:26 If there's a difference between how you're feeling now 19:28 and how you were feeling when we were talking about what was 19:34 going on, you know the delays, that highlights that there is a 19:37 difference in what's going on physiologically 19:40 on the inside of you. 19:41 You see, stress is not an external thing. 19:43 Stress is actually an inside job. 19:46 Now, what the researchers have been able to demonstrate 19:49 is that this thing that's inside of us... 19:52 That knot in the stomach. 19:54 It is actually a greater predictor of your dying of a 20:00 heart attack than all of the other risk factors combined! 20:04 Really? 20:06 So that knot in the stomach, that feeling of frustration, 20:08 and all that, if that happens a lot you are 20:11 setting yourself up. 20:12 You are setting yourself up. 20:13 You see the issue is not just what we eat, 20:15 it's actually what's eating us! 20:18 The issue isn't just one of hardening of the arteries. 20:23 But it is actually one of hardening of the heart. 20:26 Because this thing that's inside of us, if I ask you, "Where does 20:30 it come from," what would you say? 20:32 It's got to be your mind. 20:33 Yes, it's just generated in there. 20:35 Now we can learn how to take care of it in the sense we 20:39 can learn to change our behavior. 20:41 In other words, we don't stomp up and down in the airplane. 20:44 And if the person sits next to us we don't just turn our backs 20:47 to the person. 20:48 We actually talk to them and try to calm down. 20:50 So we might learn how to behave even though the situation may 20:54 not be an optimal situation. 20:55 But it doesn't negate the fact that this thing 20:58 is on the inside. 20:59 Now let me ask you a question. 21:00 You are a Christian physician. 21:02 And so I assume you read your Bible and believe in Christ. 21:05 That's correct. 21:07 Did Christ have that kind of anger when He saw the 21:09 money changers in the temple and they were doing things 21:13 in church they shouldn't have done? 21:14 I believe not. 21:16 I believe what He had, this righteous indignation, was one 21:20 that was mixed with compassion. 21:22 He had compassion for the people who did not know that what they 21:28 were doing was wrong. 21:29 See, on the cross one of the things that He said was, 21:31 "Father for give them. " 21:33 Now He could have been very upset with what they were doing 21:36 that was very unjust. 21:37 But He said, "Father forgive them. " 21:39 The issue with this thing that we have inside, it has been 21:44 characterized, scientifically, as hostility. 21:47 And there are 3 components to the hostility that is 21:50 associated with atherosclerosis and hardening of the arteries. 21:53 If you have these you know that you have the 21:54 wrong kind of thing going on. 21:56 What are those three? 22:00 Those three things are: anger - actual rage, 22:06 aggression - that is when we act out... 22:10 So you're going down the road, you get angry at that person and 22:13 you swerve your car - and that's aggression? 22:14 That's aggression. 22:16 And the third is cynicism. 22:20 In other words you get there and you say, 22:21 "Well, I just had a great trip today. " 22:23 Or you don't believe. 22:25 You're not believing that everything 22:28 is going to go all right. 22:29 You're cynical - This flight? 22:31 No, this flight is not going to get there on time 22:33 because it never has. 22:34 If you have those elements that's damaging your heart? 22:37 That's damaging your heart, that's correct. 22:38 Now the issue then becomes one of how do we change that? 22:42 I don't know too many people that are really able to change 22:46 their minds for themselves. 22:48 Now we say we change our minds all the time, that is we tarry 22:52 between two decisions and we choose one or we choose another. 22:55 But to really change your heart on the inside, 22:58 that's something that requires special care. 23:01 See, we need a surgeon to do our heart surgery. 23:05 That surgeon is actually the Holy Spirit. 23:08 He can change our hearts and take out our stony hearts 23:12 and replace it with a heart of flesh. 23:15 And then we're able to look at these situations not with anger, 23:20 ire, frustration, and aggression but actually we're able to have 23:27 peace - peace that passeth understanding. 23:29 You are a scientist. 23:33 Change the hats now. 23:35 Just a couple minutes ago I said you're a Christian physician 23:39 and I asked you about that anger. 23:40 But now I'm saying you're a scientist. 23:42 Is there science behind what you just said - the Holy Spirit, 23:45 forgiveness, those type of things? 23:46 While there isn't science to state that we can prove the 23:51 Holy Spirit by science and things like that, what we can 23:54 see is that we have evidence of people whose lives are changed. 24:00 We know that, for instance, part of the issue with 24:05 hostility, anger, and aggression it's associated with a 24:09 characteristic that people have that is identifiable 24:11 scientifically provable, that is people who have a difficult 24:15 time forgiving. 24:16 Now I have to ask, where does this desire to forgive, 24:21 where does forgiveness come from? 24:23 And scientifically we can't prove where it comes from. 24:26 All we know is that people either are able to forgive 24:30 or they're not able to forgive. 24:32 Now we have to go to extra scientific resources to find out 24:37 about this thing of the heart. 24:39 And in the Bible account we find out that forgiveness actually 24:43 comes from God. 24:44 As we are forgiven, as we understand that we are forgiven 24:48 it is much easier for us to forgive. 24:50 Do you see a lot of people in your practice there at the 24:53 Lifestyle Center of America that really the issue is 24:56 lack of forgiveness and this kind of anger? 24:59 I wouldn't say a lot but a significant number. 25:02 And what do you do? 25:03 What are the things that you do? 25:04 I'm that person now, what would you say to me and why? 25:08 The thing is you may come with a question and say, "Here I am 25:13 I'm working out, I'm eating right, etcetera, how come I 25:17 just had a heart attack?" 25:18 Now the easy way to explain this is to start off with 25:21 the fact that you have genetic predispositions as well 25:25 to having heart disease. 25:26 But after getting through that and we talk about genes 25:31 and so on, you tell me, "Look my dad, he's 93 years old 25:36 with no problem, my mom she's 87 with no problem. 25:39 I have no one in my family who ever had heart disease. 25:42 My cholesterol is normal, my homocysteine is normal, 25:46 I have no C-reactive protein elevation in my blood, my 25:50 Chlamydia titer is very low, so what's the deal?!" 25:54 And while you're sitting there and you're talking to me, 25:57 I can sense, I can see that you have difficulty. 26:02 Now I can give you a written test of 46 items that's a subset 26:08 of the MMPI or the 26:10 Minnesota Multiphase Personality Inventory. 26:13 And how you respond on that test will tell me whether you 26:17 have high hostility, whether it's primarily in the anger, 26:21 aggression, or whether it's in the cynicism range. 26:24 And if that is the case, then we have to deal with it. 26:28 And the way we deal with it is I will have to ask you, "Are you 26:32 willing to forgive this person or that situation?" 26:37 Because you will have stories of things that are really 26:40 bothering you. 26:41 That's how people are. 26:42 They would have these things that they are carrying around. 26:45 It might have been something that mom did when you were a 26:49 little boy or something like that. 26:50 And we don't have to get into all the 26:52 psychoanalysis of those details. 26:54 But what we need to do is... 26:55 We need to identify them. 26:57 They need to be specific things, specific issues, you help them 26:59 identify those perhaps and talk about them. 27:02 Is it true that the situation, that is the other person, 27:11 that you talk about, may not change 27:13 but you can in fact change. 27:14 That's correct. 27:16 You see forgiveness is actually something that you can have 27:20 that liberates you and liberates the other person as well. 27:23 Forgiveness is really a matter of love. 27:26 Thank you Dr. Zeno Charles-Marcel. 27:29 We've been talking with the doctor about heart disease 27:32 and things that really we don't usually talk about as related to 27:35 heart disease. 27:36 Today we've really focused in on the last half of this 27:38 program on anger. 27:39 Are you angry? 27:40 Are you struggling with something? 27:42 Is there someone you need to forgive? 27:43 Or some situation, some person you need to forgive? 27:47 We encourage you to do that and do it now. 27:50 If you need more information about how to do that, contact 27:52 us here at 3ABN or the Lifestyle Center of America. 27:55 We hope that as a result that you'll have health that will 27:58 last for a lifetime. |
Revised 2014-12-17